Most speakers can speak. Almost none of them can sell themselves. Ryan Botner can do both, and he learned the second skill the hard way: twenty years in sales, a million-dollar income before thirty, a near-fatal overdose, and a rebuild from a nine-dollar-an-hour job at a barbecue joint.

In this episode, Ryan Botner breaks down what actually fills a speaking calendar: power hours, cold outreach, walking into businesses unannounced, and the unglamorous truth that money follows movement. He explains why most speakers think they have a leads problem when they actually have a conversion problem, why associations are the highest-leverage entry point in the US market, and why selling from stage isn't a pitch, it's an invitation.

If you've ever told yourself you just need a better website or a bureau relationship to start, this episode will not let you off the hook.

Want to connect with Ryan? Find him on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/ryan-botner-b59445239

Note: Ryan's prospecting examples are largely US-specific, where associations are a far bigger part of the speaking ecosystem than in the UK or Europe. The underlying principle (reps, relationships, and getting on the phone) still applies regardless of geography.

CHAPTERS:

00:00 Leads Versus Conversion

01:22 Ryan’s Rise And Reset

05:50 Finding Your Paid Problem

07:36 Money Follows Movement

11:44 Who To Call First

14:38 Prospecting And LinkedIn

19:00 Breaking Into Corporate

21:36 Reps And Sales Scrimmage

25:27 Listen To The Market

28:09 Low Hanging Booking Wins

30:55 Speak To Sell Offers

33:32 Coaching Fit And Contact

37:13 Wrap Up And Next Episode

4. FAQ Section

Q: What is Ryan Botner's main advice for speakers struggling to get booked?

A: Ryan Botner argues that most speakers don't have a leads problem, they have a conversion problem caused by unclear messaging or under-developed offers, and that consistent prospecting activity (cold calls, LinkedIn outreach, in-person visits) is non-negotiable for building a sustainable speaking business.

Q: What is Ryan Botner's close rate by lead source?

A: Ryan Botner reports an 80% close rate from discovery calls booked through speaking engagements, roughly 50% from referrals, and around 30% from LinkedIn leads.

Q: How did Ryan Botner get into professional speaking?

A: After a career in life insurance sales and a period of addiction that led to a near-fatal overdose, Ryan Botner rebuilt his career starting with unpaid and low-paid speaking engagements before scaling to a six-figure speaking and coaching business.

Q: Does Ryan Botner's advice apply outside the US?

A: Much of his prospecting strategy centres on US-style trade associations, which are less prevalent in the UK and Europe. The core principles of direct outreach and relationship-building still apply, but European speakers will need to adapt the specific tactics.

Visit https://strategic-speaker.scoreapp.com to take the 2-minute Strategic Speaking Business Audit and find out what's blocking you from getting more bookings, re-bookings, referrals and bigger fees. There's a special surprise gift for everyone who completes the quiz.

Want to get coached for free on the show? Fill in the form https://forms.gle/mo4xYkEiCjqtz9yP6, and if we think your challenge could help others, we'll invite you on.

For speaking enquiries or to connect with me, you can email [email protected] or find me on LinkedIn

You can find all our clips, episodes and more on the Present Influence YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@PresentInfluence

Thanks for listening. Rating the show 5* on Spotify helps their algo recommend the show, so please take a moment to follow the show and leave a rating.

Most speakers think they have a leads problem.

2

They don't.

3

They have a conversion problem, and

they're avoiding the phone because of it.

4

My guest today made over a million

dollars a year in sales before he was

5

30, lost it all to addiction, and rebuilt

a six-figure speaking business from

6

a $9 an hour job at a barbecue joint.

7

He's gonna tell you exactly what

the reps look like and why money

8

follows movement, not content.

9

Welcome to Professional Speaking,

the show for people who are

10

serious about speaking and want

to become known, booked, and paid.

11

My name's John Ball, professional

speaker, speaker business coach,

12

stand-up comedian, and sci-fi nerd.

13

I'm here as your guide on the journey

to a successful speaking business

14

Welcome to Professional

Speaking, Ryan Bottner.

15

Good to have you on the show today

16

Ryan Botner: Yes, great to be here, John.

17

I'm excited

18

John: Me too.

19

Now, one of the reasons I'm particularly

looking forward to speaking with you is

20

because you help with one of the things

that I think most speakers struggle

21

with probably more than anything else.

22

Like most people go, "Oh, speaking

thing can kind of do that.

23

I've got that figured out."

24

But what do you do about actually

getting the bookings and sales

25

to make sure that you're getting

on the stages in the first place?

26

And this is where someone

like you comes in.

27

So tell us a little bit about,

who you are and what you do.

28

Ryan Botner: Yeah.

29

Well, I had been selling for 20 years

and, first started in life insurance.

30

They said, "Bring, 200 names to

training and, we're gonna give you

31

a script, and you're gonna call all

your friends and family, and you're

32

gonna sell them life insurance."

33

And I'm, like, freaking out.

34

So that was my, through to the wolves,

and so I just, I said, "Well, I wanna do

35

this, and I don't wanna go work a normal

hourly job, so I'm gonna figure it out."

36

And, honestly it's, once you got

over the call reluctancy, which was,

37

is always the biggest, you know,

hurdle that people deal with, right?

38

Which is still to this day everybody

dealing with, 'cause, we didn't have

39

text messages much back then, you

know, and email and those types.

40

So, like, you literally were

calling, you're calling people.

41

And so always been just, understood

the phone and the power of the phone.

42

and so made millions of dollars.

43

Before I was 30, I was making

over a million dollars a

44

year selling life insurance.

45

and I really sold life insurance

to rich people, physicians,

46

and thus I became rich.

47

And then the world got ahold of me

pretty good, John, and, fell into

48

first alcohol, and then it was

drugs, and about two and a half years

49

of deep addiction from 35 to 38.

50

Ended in a overdose, and I was in a

coma three days, and, I wasn't looking

51

for God, but He, He got my attention.

52

And, thankfully I turned

from that whole life.

53

That was in 2020 and, my wife at the

time, you know, she ne- she didn't,

54

she didn't really, she didn't leave me.

55

She always knew if Ryan got out of this,

he was gonna be a motivational speaker.

56

John: Okay.

57

So she had that vision for you

58

Ryan Botner: she was

proph- prophetic, yeah.

59

And, uh, and so when I first came, you

know, came back out of my mess, I just

60

really, honestly, I just started losing

myself in the service of others, and

61

I think that's a really important key.

62

And I, I was just coaching a speaker

this morning, and a lot of times

63

we wanna talk about ourselves,

but it's not about us, right?

64

It's, it's about the audience, and if

you can have a servant mindset about

65

serving the audience any way you possibly

can, I believe everything changes.

66

And so I had to just get over my

selfish self, and, I joined the John

67

Maxwell team, and I called myself

a John Maxwell certified speaker.

68

Ask me how many gigs

I got from that, John.

69

John: How many did you

70

get?

71

Ryan Botner: Zero.

72

And I didn't, I wasn't in the

better, but I called myself

73

a speaker and, uh, a coach.

74

and I got a, my, my first job out of

addiction, which was at a barbecue

75

joint for nine bucks an hour.

76

And so, that was my first speaking job.

77

but I had to work, and I was hum- I had

to humble myself, and then, you know,

78

I just, I, I worked with people at

addiction, and I was just trying to serve,

79

trying to find, you know, my, my walk.

80

And then, a professional speaker came

into our small town in North Dakota and he

81

spoke at our, ambulance banquet one year,

and I, he was just talking about attitude

82

and intentionality and time management.

83

And I was like, I'm like,

"You can get paid to do this?"

84

And so I tapped him on the shoulder

and I said, "I wanna do what you do."

85

I s- gave him my John

Maxwell certified card.

86

I was so proud of it, right?

87

And, he said, "Well, call me Monday."

88

And so, that was my first coach that

I hired really out of all of it.

89

And since then I've hired probably four

or five other coaches, spent almost six

90

figures on coaching the last five years.

91

You, you and I, we met through a

coaching, you know, program that we're

92

both a part of and, and work for.

93

And, and so I believe everybody

needs a coach in life.

94

I believe that a good

coach can change your life.

95

And so I was, as I grew my speaking

business and coaching business and I

96

just kept building it, I, you know, I

had a burden, because I was making money.

97

So my first year in speaking, I maybe made

s- in six months, I maybe made like 40

98

grand, and then the next year I did 150.

99

Year after that was 250.

100

Last year we did like 360.

101

And so I don't say that to brag, but

I say it because it's working, right?

102

But I also have seven kids to

feed, so I have to go work.

103

I got, like this

104

John: you,

105

you haven't got a lot of choice.

106

You gotta go out there

and make, make the bacon

107

Ryan Botner: and they eat not only in

the morning, but at noon and at night,

108

and they ex- like, I just fed them.

109

but, so what I'm doing is working,

but it didn't come over, you

110

know, it didn't come overnight.

111

I had to find my voice.

112

I really had to find my skill,

you know, based on my unique

113

past and my unique skill set.

114

I really, you know, I tell people I'm a

specialist in helping people to activate.

115

And, rather than commoditizing

yourself and saying that you're a

116

motivational speaker or inspirational

speaker, I believe that's just the

117

title behind it, but what problem in

the world do you really solve, right?

118

What, what are you, what problem in

the world are you qualified to solve,

119

and is it a problem you wanna solve?

120

Like, I come out of recovery.

121

I could speak till I'm blue in the face

at recovery facilities and make no money.

122

I could, I'm a man of faith.

123

I could speak faith, uh, at

churches and make no money.

124

and so I had to figure out, like, how

can I really take my voice and, and

125

what's the problem in the world that I

solve that would, you know, pay me the

126

most money for it, right, essentially.

127

And so, um, over the last year really

honed in on the sales side of things.

128

I don't, you know, people

kind of shy away from sales.

129

It's not sales, it's serving, you know?

130

Because if you're really serving

people and you're a go giver, you will

131

have financial freedom, you will have

time freedom, and more importantly,

132

you'll have relationship freedom.

133

And so for me, how I track that

is through speaking, right?

134

And so speaking to sell, the

speaking is the tip of the spear.

135

I speak at associations,

that's number one, 'cause they

136

usually have money to pay me.

137

and then getting into corporate.

138

The corporate money obviously is good,

but you know, the challenge with corporate

139

sometimes is, they will pay a lot of

money, uh, or they'll even pay you to

140

come in and consult or, it, but a lot

of people, they don't wanna be coached,

141

they don't wanna be consulted, right?

142

You know, and so I had to go

through that lock as well.

143

And so once again, finding your

voice, but understanding that,

144

write this down anybody who's

listening, money follows movement.

145

You have to move.

146

You have to get uncomfortable.

147

You're gonna have to build relationships

with event planners and decision makers.

148

You're gonna have to make phone calls.

149

You're gonna have to come up with a

plan, because nobody's gonna call you

150

John: Yeah.

151

And th-this is, I think, recurring

message on, on the, on this show, but

152

I think it's one that people can't hear

enough because you need to keep hearing

153

it until you're doing it, frankly.

154

And even then, we sometimes need

to keep reminding ourselves,

155

yeah, this is what it's all about.

156

It's the, it's the business of speaking.

157

As much as we might prefer that

we just, all we have to do is

158

get up on the stage and, and the

rest will take care of itself.

159

It doesn't…

160

It just doesn't work that way.

161

And, um, and, and to be honest, that

it shouldn't work that way either.

162

It's like we, we do

need to build something.

163

We need to operate as a business.

164

And one of the things that we,

you know, connected a bit more

165

deeply over was about how speakers

generally don't treat speaking

166

like a business in the first place.

167

So I love what you're saying

about the, the service mindset.

168

I mean, yes, you will encounter

speakers who are ego-driven more than

169

service, but I think for the most

part, people in the speaking world are

170

more service focused and, and one of

the things I love about the industry.

171

Um, but

172

Ryan Botner: Me too.

173

Me

174

John: it c- it can't just be for free.

175

It has to…

176

As much as you might wanna, you might

wanna speak, as you say, you might

177

wanna speak to Faith, you might wanna

speak to, uh, particularly to, to

178

can't really afford to pay you, you

have to make a business out of it.

179

And so you have to make business

decisions that go with that.

180

It can't all be what you want.

181

So with, with your business, yeah, you've,

you've clearly developed something and

182

I, I think a lot of people would be

probably happy to hear your story as

183

well as I think, all right, you did it.

184

I mean, yeah, you had some

business success early on, but

185

you didn't start like, "Oh, I've

always been an amazing speaker.

186

I've always been up on stage.

187

I knew this is what I wanted

to do forever," or that.

188

It's like, this is like, all

right, this was like a reinvention

189

to some degree for you.

190

Ryan Botner: Yeah.

191

Yeah, and even, you know, my biggest

gig still in, in my career with

192

which really full-time for years,

my biggest gig is, was, is $7,000

193

and I got that last, last month.

194

You know what I mean?

195

And so, um, I, uh, I probably have a

little imposter syndrome that, well,

196

like I can't ever get 10K or 12K, right?

197

But that, that's what I

thought when I first started.

198

Like, I couldn't believe somebody

gave me my first gig I think was 500,

199

and then it was 900, and then 1,200,

and I kinda got stuck at like 3,500

200

for a while, but it was good money.

201

And then I was like, okay, well, but

if I can get a $3,500 gig or a $5,000

202

gig, but I can have an offer that

I can make five, 10, 15 on the back

203

end, and so that is the whole thing.

204

And I'll tell you the truth, I probably

make the most money on free gigs as

205

long as the right people are in the,

in the audience, you know, networking

206

business type of things 'cause they're

gonna be attracted, right, to go deeper.

207

And I believe that most people are not

gonna hear my talk and just like totally

208

transform everything in their life, right?

209

They're not gonna hear this podcast

and like, "Oh, that was it."

210

Totally transform.

211

They need to be in a

coaching program, right?

212

Because I know how to lose weight, John.

213

I know what to do, I know what to

eat, I know how to work out if you

214

put me in a gym, but I need a trainer.

215

I need accountability.

216

I need clarity because when there's

clarity, then I have confidence.

217

And so, like I think a lot of the

biggest battle is people are like,

218

"Well, I don't know who to call."

219

Okay.

220

Well, let's come up with a list

and a script and let's do it.

221

But if they, they're, if you're not

putting those things together and

222

bringing accountability, left to

our own devices we just won't do it.

223

We won't do hard things.

224

John: So I, I think you're right that

that is one of the things, that one

225

of the stumbling blocks for people is,

who do you call in the first place?

226

'Cause I think, you know, funny enough,

I was chatting earlier today with

227

a, with a, a bureau, someone from a

speaker bureau about this very topic

228

that, that speakers will just join a

speaker bureau and think, "Oh, the gigs

229

are gonna come flying through now."

230

Or, um, or, or they'll r- post stuff a

few bits to pieces on LinkedIn, or they'll

231

have, be responding to other people's

posts, the stuff that people tell you

232

to do for engagement on LinkedIn, and

that why isn't my inbox blowing up?

233

Why isn't my phone ringing?

234

And all the…

235

Because that's a super

passive way of doing it.

236

You know, people just don't wanna

get on the phone and make that call.

237

So it's not just that.

238

It's like, well, you have to know who

you're gonna call, and you have to

239

know what you're gonna pitch them.

240

So the first bit of the equation is who.

241

H- How, how do people…

242

How do you recommend people

start figuring that out?

243

Ryan Botner: Yeah.

244

Well, you said a really

key word there, who.

245

there's a book by Dan

Sullivan, and I believe Dr.

246

Ben Hardy wrote this

book, called Who Not How.

247

And so every time I've had a breakthrough

in my life, it has come from a person.

248

So I don't really have a money

problem, we have a people problem.

249

We need to find the people,

the people have the money.

250

And, the good news is, I, I'm…

251

associations and even conference,

they're looking for speakers.

252

They might think there's

a lot of speakers, but

253

they're looking for speakers.

254

They're looking for speakers that

are different as well, and that are

255

assertive and intentional, about

wanting to be on the stage and have

256

high excitement and high energy.

257

I mean, you say motivational speaker, I

believe everybody needs to be motivating.

258

Motivating just means move.

259

Like, if you're not motivating,

nobody wants to listen to you.

260

If you're not moving, you know?

261

And same with inspirational,

it means to breathe life into.

262

But I believe that, we get so caught up

in I gotta have this pers- perfect demo,

263

and this website, and all these things.

264

No, you just need to speak

directly to the problem.

265

So every day you need to wake up and say,

"What problem are people dealing with?

266

And what are they dealing with?"

267

I wake up and ask myself this, I'm like,

they're dealing with anxiety, depression,

268

fear, hopelessness, helplessness.

269

They're stuck, they're complacent.

270

So all of my messaging

speaks to those problems.

271

So then they're like, "Oh, that is…

272

We…

273

Oh, we are, we're dealing with that."

274

You know?

275

'Cause when you see it,

you're like, "That's it.

276

That's what we got going on."

277

John: Yeah.

278

So you, you figure, you, figure, out

that that's who you're serving, that's

279

a really important part of the equation.

280

But then how do you figure out

who you need to speak to in

281

order to serve those people?

282

Ryan Botner: Yeah.

283

I believe you should

always be prospecting.

284

so right before this call, I had a

power hour and I was prospecting.

285

And so I'm figuring out, what

conferences, associations that

286

I align the most w- most with.

287

I'm not only calling them,

getting them on the phone, but

288

I'm adding them to LinkedIn.

289

We have a LinkedIn outreach,

program as well because when they

290

come on LinkedIn, they need to

see I'm a professional speaker.

291

I wanna build that.

292

don't just send emails.

293

They-- Literally, I talk to

event planners all the time.

294

They say they get 50 emails a day.

295

John: I believe it

296

Ryan Botner: So if you're sending email,

but I can give you this, LinkedIn, if

297

you, if you do it and you just promise in

the message when you first connect with

298

them, "Hey, I spoke over here, but I just

wanted to say hello and connect with you.

299

I, I, I promise I won't, slap pitch you."

300

And you just build a relationship, and

then you post good content, right, that is

301

relevant to problems that they're solving.

302

I believe that's a great way to do

it, but you need to get on the phone,

303

and if you just get them on the

phone to build a relationship, then

304

you can do a combination of that.

305

That's how I've built my speaking business

306

John: Yeah.

307

I, I was speaking with, a UK speaker

called Elliot Kay, and, one of the

308

things that Elliot was saying, is like

that a lot of the stuff that people

309

put on LinkedIn, a, a lot of times

speakers don't actually put much or

310

content of their, or pictures or videos

of them actually speaking on platforms.

311

And he said that the, the bookers are

there on the platform, but very often

312

they're not actually seeing you in

action, and it is that proof of concept

313

Ryan Botner: Social proof

314

John: right, social proof, being able

to see, well not just that you can get

315

on a stage perhaps, but also to be able

to see content that shows you know what

316

you're talking about, you actually sound

like you have the stuff that can deliver

317

on what we want to book you in for.

318

That I think I've heard you say

this before as well, that y- you

319

know, the bookers need to be able

to trust that you can deliver

320

Ryan Botner: Absolutely.

321

I mean, you think about it,

it's not their money, right?

322

Okay, so it's not their money.

323

What's the big thing, like,

what's their big risk?

324

Well, can I trust you to deliver

and just really not mess it up?

325

And, and are we, you know,

can I stay within budget?

326

That's really all they care about

327

You know?

328

So if you build a relationship

and they know, like, and trust

329

you, they'll go to bat for you.

330

But I will tell you this, this

is a big tip, and this is where a

331

direction we're going right now.

332

Not only, uh, not only just working

with event planners and decision-makers,

333

but you need to go and befriend

the board members of associations,

334

'cause the board members are the

ones that will give some votes.

335

And a lot of times I lose out with an

event planner decision-maker 'cause

336

the boardroom brought their guy

337

John: Right.

338

It makes sense.

339

I mean, it's a, it is a relationship

business and people want the people

340

that they trust to be able to deliver

the outcomes they're looking for

341

Ryan Botner: And usually those board

members also are presidents or head

342

up of corporations, which is really

343

what you're going for, anyway.

344

We wanna get to the corporate money.

345

and so, but the nice thing about

associations is that it's much easier

346

to speak to, let's just say, a group

of financial advisors that are all

347

dealing with the same thing, or a group

of mortgage brokers that are all new.

348

It's much easier for me to speak and

build out a talk that is they're all

349

dealing with the same problem, rather

than a rotary group, which is, has

350

like every type of occupation in it.

351

Does that make sense?

352

John: It does.

353

I mean, here, here

354

Ryan Botner: don't know the word that I'm

thinking, like specific niche, you know,

355

like a group of similar, 'cause then you

could really hone in on a problem that

356

they're really facing, you could smash it

357

John: Yeah.

358

He- here in the Europe, and

especially in the UK, we don't

359

really have the associations.

360

Like, the US is full of

associations, Europe is not.

361

That's not to say that there aren't

any that exist, but they're not alwa-

362

you know, they're not al- they're

not quite the same path for people

363

into professional speaking as they

might be for, for people in the U.S.

364

I mean, if that isn't a stepping stone

for you, what, what would be your, your

365

advice if you kind of have to go straight

to the, straight to the corporate?

366

What, what would you do in that situation?

367

Ryan Botner: literally what I did in the

corporate world is I, um, I went do- I

368

went door to door when I first started.

369

So I would walk into car dealerships, and

I would walk into real estate offices.

370

I would walk into, corporate and

especially if they had any type of

371

a sales, department, and I would ask

them when their sales meetings were,

372

'cause it was usually every week, and

I would come in and speak for free so

373

that they could taste the ice cream

and I could showcase in the corporate

374

John: Right

375

Ryan Botner: and I will tell you, that,

I, A, the boldness to walk in, right?

376

And then to go speak, I got hired

eight times in two months from that.

377

Now, the challenge is I ran out of car

dealerships and real estate offices

378

to call on A lot of times we just, we

just have to be bold and, and allow

379

them to, see us in action, you know?

380

And there'll be some type of consulting

coach, some type of opportunity there.

381

Plus, they all have groups, like the

group that I know, like in the car

382

dealership world, they, they have

like what … It's like study groups.

383

They're called like Tony groups,

and they meet every quarter,

384

and that's an opportunity.

385

Or you like Vistage groups.

386

They got … A lot of people

are in those types of group.

387

So successful people are a part of

these that you can get referred to

388

John: Yeah.

389

A- and those can be good doorways in.

390

And you said about g- walk- doing like

walking into places and I could just hear

391

the listener now going, "Um, I couldn't…

392

I don't think I could do that."

393

But I, I honestly think pe-

people could, it's just that

394

they pr- would prefer not to.

395

Like you say with the,

they prefer not to make

396

Ryan Botner: if I wouldn't have had

a coach that said, "You're doing it."

397

And I never forget the first one

I did, I'll never forget, and,

398

uh, it was actually a, uh, mobile,

like, or not a mobile h- RV park.

399

It was a RV dealership.

400

And it w- I walked in and I said,

"Do you have weekly meetings?"

401

He said, "Yeah."

402

And he actually said, "You know what?

403

You're, you're, you're

a performance coach.

404

Would you coach my new guy here?"

405

And I sat down and, and he said, "I'll

pay you to coach him for an hour."

406

So I sat down and, and I

coached him for an hour.

407

They never brought me in to speak

'cause the executive said no, and

408

they never paid me either, but it

was a good experience, my first one.

409

You know, it wasn't a

rejection, it was actually…

410

And I'll never forget that.

411

So it's always the first one's the hardest

412

John: Yeah.

413

But do you, do you think that people do

need to do the work on getting out of

414

the way or do you just think you just

need the accountability, you need someone

415

there to tell you just go and do it?

416

Ryan Botner: Reps,

417

yeah.

418

Yeah.

419

Yeah, because, because, uh,

you know, top performers have

420

four things in common, John.

421

Number one, they are remarkably

bold, and people just need a

422

more, they need more boldness.

423

Now, I can't be bold, though, if I don't

have clarity and I don't have confidence

424

and I don't, I don't have a roadmap.

425

And I, if I trust that the person has been

there before, like that, uh, that gives

426

me more boldness in what I'm doing, right?

427

Otherwise, I have confusion, which

is randomness in motion, and then I'm

428

like, "Oh, I should be doing this.

429

I should be doing that.

430

I should be posting on LinkedIn.

431

I should be posting…"

432

Like, no.

433

Like you're throwing pebbles

into the Atlantic Ocean.

434

Need to have a clear plan of somebody

who's been there before and done

435

it, you know?

436

So

437

John: to reinvent anything

in order to do this.

438

But, um, I, I, I agree.

439

And I, I, I…

440

My, my first ever sales job, I was, I had

that s- that fear of making the calls.

441

Ryan Botner: Court

442

John: but no, I was, I was being

trained by, do you know Cole Gordon?

443

You ever come across him and his team?

444

Ryan Botner: That sounds familiar

445

John: Okay.

446

So I, so I was

447

being…

448

But, so we'd bought training

with them and, and so his team

449

were training, training me and

the other team, team members.

450

And, and it really was just like the,

the probably the most helpful thing

451

they covered on that was the only

way to get over the hesitation on

452

making the calls is to just start.

453

Just start making the calls.

454

Because when you're in

it, there's no hesitation.

455

You're just in it, you get on

with it, and that, that's really

456

how you have to start your day.

457

It's like, "Yeah, okay, I might not

want to do this," but you, you take,

458

take the bitter pill and just get on

with it, because that's the worst of

459

it out the way, is getting started

460

Ryan Botner: Yeah.

461

And I will tell you, and this is something

that we, I, I do in my coaching program,

462

is we do, uh, like a sales scrimmage.

463

And so it's an hour.

464

We break, go into breakout groups,

and it's three people in each room.

465

And so I'll put three speakers in

a room, three coaches in a room,

466

whatever it is, and we will get reps.

467

And so they got three minutes of phoning,

approach, discovery, whatever it is,

468

because you need to get those reps in.

469

And you could do it with your ChatGPT.

470

You could do it, you could go back

and forth with AI and do role play

471

and if you wanted to, but, but it

just brings more confidence rather

472

than making the mistake on the call,

on the phone, out on the field, and

473

then, you know, losing the opportunity.

474

And so, but, that's always been

something that has been leveled

475

up my skill set big time, is just

getting … Gotta get to the gym.

476

I gotta put in the reps

477

John: Yeah.

478

And, and it, it…

479

People think this is complicated,

but I think maybe they want

480

to think that because it gives

them, gives them an excuse out.

481

Yeah, like you think, you think, "Oh,

the gym's gonna be too hard work."

482

Ryan Botner: John, it is

483

John: yeah.

484

I agree.

485

I agree.

486

Ryan Botner: But you and I saying,

you and I saying it's hard is

487

not gonna make it any easier

488

John: Right.

489

But it's not…

490

Hard is not the same as impossible.

491

Hard is not the same as

like, "I can't do it."

492

It's just like, yeah, it's not

going to be easy, but it is doable.

493

Like most things that are worth

having, they're not gonna be easy.

494

If it was easy, it wouldn't

even be worth having.

495

Ryan Botner: Everybody do it

496

John: yeah, you have to put

497

it, you have to put in some effort

and some work into doing that.

498

I'm completely with you on that.

499

But there's also an element where

sometimes you just initially

500

have to get out of your own

way and just start doing it.

501

And, um, now you, you kind of s- shared

some of your story about doing that.

502

Do you find it's the same

principle for everyone else?

503

You're just like, you need to

know why you're getting out of

504

your own way in order to be able

to, to do that for yourself.

505

You need that like, you have

to have a big enough reason to

506

actually push yourself to do that

507

Ryan Botner: Yeah.

508

I mean, I have seven little

reasons, that's for sure.

509

Uh, you know, and I, and like, here's

the challenge, that, you know, don't--

510

If they don't have-- If-- The people

that are backed against a wall, I,

511

I feel they, they respond the most,

but not-- A lot of times they don't

512

have any money to even invest in

themselves, and I've been there too.

513

and then, you know, it-- I'll have

people that have made a bunch of money,

514

and then they wanna come in and speak,

but they don't wanna put the work in

515

to do the, to get the-- Like, they're

not gonna just get the 10K gigs.

516

They're not even a good…

517

You know what I mean?

518

But yet they made their money, and so, uh,

like, you just have to know, like, "Why

519

am I doing this, and where am I going?"

520

But you don't have to have it

all figured out right away.

521

you need to select a problem you solve,

establish yourself as an authority.

522

You could start writing a book.

523

Write a little book.

524

Like, I wrote a really little

book, you know, to start.

525

And, and then, but then you have to listen

to the market, 'cause the market will tell

526

you if your message is hitting or not,

if you're really s-speaking to problems.

527

And usually people are bringing,

they're bringing the, the-

528

They're bringing the solution, but

they're not speaking to the pain

529

John: Right.

530

Yeah.

531

I, I do, I do sometimes come across, uh,

um, particularly where with the place we,

532

we both work for, would often very much

come across people wanting to speak about

533

what they wanted to deliver to people,

but that wasn't really connected with

534

what people would probably want from them.

535

Ryan Botner: And I've done it.

536

I've done it

537

John: yeah.

538

It's eas- it's easy trap to fall

into because it's like you think,

539

"Oh, this is what they need.

540

This is what, this is what,

this is what I love, and this

541

is what everyone else needs."

542

A- and it actually might not be, uh,

unless you can actually connect it in

543

with, as you say, solving the problem

for the right people and for people who

544

are gonna be able to pay you for it.

545

Let me ask you this, though.

546

In your opinion, what do you think is the

most important skill or trait or habit

547

for, for a professional paid speaker?

548

Ryan Botner: you need to be

a good listener and you need

549

to check your ego at the door

550

John: I think those look great.

551

Yeah

552

Ryan Botner: I, I I have a good-- I

have a speaker friend and he, he said,

553

"Ryan, you need, you need to be an

554

askaholic."

555

You need to really be curious,

and I knew what he meant.

556

And, be really curious, and, and be

interested in, in, and really just

557

bringing value and serving, you know?

558

some low-hanging fruit

tip for, for somebody.

559

I just wanna try to bring value.

560

if you have event venues, that put

on events, in your area, just stop

561

in or call them and get the event

planner on the phone and just let

562

them know that you're available.

563

S- 'cause if a speaker backs out,

you wanna let them know that that's

564

sol- that's bringing a solution

and then not a solicitation.

565

building a relationship, and

then what will usually happen is

566

they'll bring you in the next year

because you were solution-based

567

and you were available to serve.

568

And even if they didn't, you

know, and so that could be a

569

low-hanging fruit, for, for somebody.

570

Honestly, I can't even tell

you how many gigs I've won

571

because the speaker backed out

572

John: That's, that's a good point 'cause

I think people do, especially, I, I know

573

around UK and Europe, people do struggle

to get i- to break into the conference

574

gigs because they don't, they don't

really always want unknown speakers.

575

But approaching it from that sense

of like, well, I think in a, in the

576

situation where they don't have anyone

else and they've got you on backup,

577

yeah, that's, you're absolutely right.

578

Okay, they might not

579

Ryan Botner: the best speaker?

580

The one that shows up

581

John: yeah.

582

100, 100%, 100%.

583

Ryan Botner: And then the other

thing too is that a lot of times

584

they'll have breakouts at events,

and you could come in as a breakout.

585

It might not pay any money or

maybe a little money, but at least

586

your, get your foot in the door

587

John: Yeah.

588

Uh, that's important.

589

The, the visibility of being seen, being

able to connect with people is important.

590

I know we don't all-- we don't

ideally want to be just doing

591

gigs for exposure, but there are

certain situations where that, um…

592

I think one of my speaker coaches

said this to me, is like, "You

593

don't ever speak for free."

594

There, there's, there has to

be some exchange of value.

595

You need to know you're getting

something worth having from doing this.

596

Even if it's not money, you're

getting something that's

597

Ryan Botner: Yeah, even if it's some

598

John: that experience

599

Ryan Botner: I call them

purpose tokens, you know?

600

John: Right.

601

Yeah.

602

Yeah.

603

Uh, I do like that.

604

I, I, I wanna ask you 'cause, uh, um,

uh, this is probably just a, a more

605

of a, a quick thing if we, if we can

cover this quickly, I don't know.

606

But, um, selling from stage is quite a

different thing, and it's not something

607

we cover too often on, on the show.

608

But, um, it's a different kind of

speaking to what most people do.

609

Different, a bit different to keynote,

though most people that I don't know if

610

I, I don't think I could sell from stage.

611

There are definitely different

skills involved with that.

612

And I was sort of thinking, yeah,

I'd like the idea, I'd like to

613

be able to sell my own courses,

my own programs from the stage.

614

Uh, but I d- I don't have

the confidence to do it.

615

I don't know how to do that.

616

How, what are some of the things that

maybe they should look to work on that

617

make that effective, make that work?

618

Ryan Botner: Question you wanna

always ask, is what action do

619

you want the audience to take?

620

So that's where I begin.

621

Say, "Okay, what action do

I want the audience to take,

622

and who am I looking for?"

623

Right?

624

'Cause I wanna be very specific in who

I'm looking for so I can pre-frame and

625

I can agitate and bother that person

that is gonna go deeper with me.

626

And so I'm doing that all through my

presentation of really just agitating

627

because if I'm agitated, now my pain

of staying where I'm at is greater

628

than the pain of change, and they

will run up and almost tackle me

629

after if I really hit home and I'm

speaking exactly to the problem.

630

And I do invite them to come deeper.

631

You know, so it's not necessarily a pitch

from the stage, but where there's no

632

invitation, John, there's no monetization.

633

Okay?

634

So there's gotta be some type

of an offer to go deeper.

635

And so when I say speak to sell, that's

really what I mean because if you put

636

me in a room with somebody for 45 or

50 minutes and they engage with me

637

in a discovery call, I close at 80%.

638

If I get a referral, I close at about 50%.

639

If it's a LinkedIn lead, it's about 30%.

640

So you can see the difference

and how powerful it is to,

641

uh, have more speaking gigs.

642

Much more efficient

643

John: For sure.

644

for sure.

645

Uh, and I think an interesting point

there that maybe isn't, you know, so

646

explicit but, but it is implicit in

what you say of you track this as well.

647

Like, you track what's actually bringing

in the results and the percentage.

648

Like, you, you know what converts

best for you and what doesn't

649

convert quite so well for you.

650

and I think most people don't have

much of a clue about that, but the

651

tracking and the numbers side of

this is, is part of having a business

652

Ryan Botner: Yeah.

653

And I'm like, um, I'll have some

opportunities where I'll, I'll pay

654

or buy tickets to be on the stage,

especially if I know the other

655

speakers, and I'll be like, "Oh, I'm

gonna get a bunch of money from this,"

656

because I know my offer and I know the

people in the room that it speaks to.

657

So I'll even not only not do it for

free, but I'll pay to be on the stage.

658

now be careful with that.

659

You don't wanna spend a bunch of money.

660

But in certain situations, if you have

confidence in that, um, in your ability

661

to sell, it's profitable for sure

662

John: It can be worth doing.

663

there's been, there's been a lot

of value in, in a short time.

664

You know, it's a very

valuable conversation, people.

665

I hope people are taking away some,

uh, I hope no big notes and taking

666

some v- some stuff away from this.

667

But I know that you, you have a

program and, you know, launching

668

a program and, and that there are

particular kinds of people that you're

669

looking for to help at the moment.

670

Who, who are the people

that you're helping?

671

And if they want to work with you, how,

how would they go about getting in touch?

672

Ryan Botner: You know, I'm very, I'm

very selective in the fact that coaching

673

is 20 or 30% me, 70 to 80% them.

674

And I don't ever wanna coach anybody

that doesn't wanna be coached or

675

it's not a good fit, you know?

676

And so I feel that some of the best,

people are-- they, they understand

677

that, A, I'm in it right now.

678

You know?

679

Like, I'm, I'm on the

power hours with them.

680

We do group power hours four days a week.

681

And so, like, we get on,

we're making the phone calls.

682

We're, we're-- And, like, I tell people,

I said, "Listen, if you're not getting

683

told no, we're not doing our job here.

684

We need some nos to let…"

685

You know?

686

And so if, if you have that call

reluctance, if you have, you know, the,

687

a message that you think, "I can really

get to the world, but I just, I really

688

just need some sales coaching," because

you're not a speaker, you're not a coach,

689

you're not a consultant, you're in sales.

690

That's it.

691

And, and sales could be like, "Oh,

I don't wanna be in sales," or maybe

692

they think of the, the dirty car

salesman or something like that.

693

but at the end of the day, like, you're

just serving, and if you align with

694

those people, and, and you, and you

discover, the diagnosis of obstacles,

695

outcomes, timing, budget, and, and

decision-maker, if you lock those in,

696

people will move forward with you, and,

you'll be able to make conversions.

697

So people either have a leads problem,

which there's not a leads problem 'cause

698

there's eight billion people in this

earth, so we have plenty of leads.

699

But either they think they have a leads

problem 'cause they're not clear on

700

their message, or they have a conversion

problem because they're not diagnosing

701

and their offer is not s- specific

enough to the problem, or they have

702

a service after the sale problem.

703

And most people can

service after the sale.

704

They can deliver.

705

They can do a good talk.

706

So it's usually a conversion problem, and

that's really where we attack the most.

707

And so, um, yeah.

708

No, I'm, I'm-- You know,

I just wanna help people.

709

I'm growing my coaching business, so

we're at about 35 clients right now.

710

You and I both come from, you

711

know, a a very scaled operation, right?

712

It was scaled.

713

And so, I'm trying to…

714

I, I, I-- We're getting

a lot of transformation.

715

People are getting booked.

716

They're getting paid.

717

They're making conversions.

718

They're, they're leaving

their jobs, right?

719

They're making money,

which is my biggest burden.

720

Like, you know?

721

John: Of course.

722

Ryan Botner: that's, what's,

that's what it's about, you know?

723

and not just, here, send a bunch of

emails out and throw it against the wall.

724

It's like, no, we, we wanna get

in front of the right people

725

and have engaging conversations.

726

So, so yeah.

727

John: Get- getting

728

Ryan Botner: that is, what I'm about.

729

John: yeah, getting, getting

730

people over the line is is one

of the biggest challenges I know.

731

so if people wanted to get in contact

with you and find out how they could

732

work with you or how you could help

them specifically with that, what's

733

the best way for them to do that?

734

Ryan Botner: Probably

LinkedIn is, is the best.

735

Ryan Botner, LinkedIn we're

pretty active on LinkedIn.

736

I believe LinkedIn is

a really good network.

737

it's

738

John: I'm meeting, yeah

739

Ryan Botner: You know, um, I'm not

gonna even name the other ones, but

740

I I, I really like LinkedIn and,

you know, I have a website as well,

741

but everything's on LinkedIn, so

we're just Ryan Botner on LinkedIn

742

John: 100%.

743

We'll make sure that, that li- those

links are in the show notes for people.

744

But Ryan, thank you so much for

coming and sharing some insights and

745

speaking business wisdom with us today.

746

Really appreciate it

747

Ryan Botner: Thanks, John.

748

Appreciate you

749

John: YouTube tells me that most

of the people who watch this show

750

are not subscribed to the channel.

751

If that's you, please do subscribe

to the show if you would like to be

752

getting more content about becoming

known, booked, and paid as a speaker.

753

Now, in relation to today's chat with

Ryan, if you've been hiding behind

754

content instead of picking up the phone,

you now know what Ryan would say about

755

that, and I would agree with him too.

756

It's time to take action,

and money follows action

757

I'll be back next week with

a solo episode, but very soon

758

I'm gonna be bringing you my

interview with Owen Fitzpatrick.

759

If you know who Owen is, you'll know

that that's not one you'd want to miss.

760

We had an amazing chat.

761

We got…

762

I got to ask some interesting questions

that I don't even think he'd been

763

asked before, on, certainly not on

a podcast, and you are gonna love

764

the content that comes from that.

765

So make sure you subscribe for

that alone and more to follow.

766

Lots of great chats coming up still.

767

But in the meantime, go and do

something worth speaking about.

768

See you next time