Keeping Coaching Relationships Fresh: Strategies for Long-Term Client Engagement

SUMMARY

In this episode, coaches John and Angie discuss the challenges and strategies of maintaining impactful and dynamic coaching relationships with long-term clients. They emphasise the importance of continuous growth and development as a coach to bring new elements to sessions, avoiding over-familiarity, and setting professional boundaries. They also share methods for revitalising coaching relationships, such as regular client feedback and self-assessment to ensure sessions remain engaging and relevant. Angie highlights the need for curiosity and challenging clients appropriately, while John discusses maintaining professional integrity and handling the renewal conversations thoughtfully. Throughout, they stress the critical nature of keeping the coaching relationship productive and avoiding staleness for the benefit of both the coach and the client.

CHAPTERS

00:00 Introduction and Setting the Stage

00:15 Challenges of Long-Term Coaching Relationships

02:03 Strategies to Keep Coaching Fresh

06:14 Maintaining Professional Boundaries

07:55 Balancing Personal and Professional Lives

09:56 Navigating Client Interactions and Boundaries

18:11 Inappropriate Coaching Conversations

19:06 Client-Centred Coaching Approach

19:59 Reviewing and Renewing Coaching Relationships

24:22 Handling Client Resistance

28:35 Maintaining Coaching Effectiveness

30:38 Engaging Long-Term Clients

35:54 Concluding Thoughts and Audience Engagement

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John's LinkedIn Profile or go to PresentInfluence.com for coaching enquiries with John

Angie's LinkedIn Profile or visit AngieSpeaks.com

2023 Present Influence Productions Coaching Clinic: Grow Your Coaching Business & Master Coaching Skills 67

John

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John: Angie

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Angie: How do you keep the music

playing with long-term clients?

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John: well, it is not

simply hitting repeat.

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The real challenge is making sure

the depth and transformation keeps

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pace with the coaching relationship.

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Angie: Ah, if only it were that easy.

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But one thing is for sure when

we have clients over long periods

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of time, sessions can potentially

become stale as day old bread.

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Would you agree?

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John: Yeah, definitely.

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And, and that's a dangerous place to be

for both the client and the coach, but

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the good news is there are practices

that can help you avoid that danger zone

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and keep the work fresh and impactful.

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Angie: Ooh, this sounds like

the perfect segue into today's

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recording, how to keep things fresh

with long-term clients, shall we?

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I.

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John: Yes, I think we shall, it's a

very formal Miss Angie, do you have

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royalty coming over tea or something?

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Angie: John, I just can't with you.

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this is, this is something that was, this

topic I think was born from something

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we just, naturally said in one of our

previous recordings and it came to

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mind because you and I are really.

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I don't wanna say lucky because I

think we do what we do and people

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are hiring us or staying with us.

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Repe, repetitiously, because of

what we do and how we do it, but we

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recognize that's not always the norm.

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And challenging because, if

you've got a client for 6, 8, 9,

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I think you have applied for 10

years or something now, right?

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No.

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John: I think.

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Angie: Oh.

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John: Well, not.

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There was a, there was a client I had

with me for about 11 years and he's

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not, he's not, he's not with me anymore.

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He stopped, he stopped his

coaching when he retired, but yeah.

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Angie: Yeah, and I think there's

so many things that can happen to

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the dynamic of that relationship.

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And I have a couple of ideas, but

before I get into what do you think

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is one of the biggest challenges.

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Of kind of what we're saying,

keeping the music playing, meaning,

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we wanna keep it fresh, we wanna

keep it impactful, relevant.

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How do you do that over years?

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Right?

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From day one when you don't

know the person and everything

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is novel to 11 years later.

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Obviously you did something right

because they stayed with you

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for 11 years and I doubt it was

because, you kept them comfortable.

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John: well, I have had, I have

had a bunch of clients who

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have stayed with me long term.

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That was probably the longest one.

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Yeah, there, there were reasons that

it definitely stayed, stayed with

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me, but it was, I think it was more

the habit in that kind of situation.

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But certainly clients who

I've had with me for longer.

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Any clients I've had with me for more

than three years, I consider to be.

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Long term clients, you'll

say five years, seven years.

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And, and that has been between five

and seven years, has been more of

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an average for long-term clients

to, to have stayed with me, which

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I think, which I think is great.

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And, one of the, this almost feels this

could be giving, it could be Esther Perel

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giving some bedroom advice here, but.

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Shaking it up is, is really one of

the keys to, to keeping things fresh.

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We have to keep our, our coaching

relationships for as fresh as our,

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hopefully our intimate relationships.

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We want to shake things up a bit, try

some new things, and if we are not, if we

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are not working on our growth, and, and

this is the one day in the, I have found

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to be most valuable to me as a coach on

my coaching journey, is to keep growing

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and developing myself as a coach to keep

learning from the people who I think have

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skills or understanding that I don't or

that I would benefit from, and being able

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to incorporate element, at least elements

of those things into my own coaching

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that allows me to bring new things to

my clients and make their sessions.

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That bit fresher.

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So I think that's been, for me, one

of the key things where I just make

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sure you keep growing so that you

have those things that you can bring

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to your clients that say, all right,

we haven't talked about that before.

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This is a fresh approach.

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Angie: I definitely think

that that's it, right?

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First of all, I think it does need

to begin with us because as we are

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learning, I don't even know, like for

you, if it's super intentional that

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you hear something, it's even a book.

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It could be a phrase, sometimes for me

it's a simple word and all of a sudden

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something clicks for me and I'm thinking,

I need to really bring this in it.

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It doesn't matter, like.

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From where it's coming, but definitely,

formal education or just, what

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happens in the daily life of a coach.

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I think it's really important,

my peers talking with you.

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things that really keep us, us fresh.

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That's definitely a, a,

a big first piece for me.

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the second thing for me, my mom always

said this, you may have said this

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phrase, familiarity breeds contempt.

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And I think one of the things that

I really work hard at over, 'cause I

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think right now at my longest client,

I still have this person, I think he,

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maybe it's eight, almost eight years.

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And it is, absolutely.

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And I've, okay, let me be honest.

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I've observed it occasionally

being making sure that they don't

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just get on the phone Hey, old

friend, let's have a cup of coffee.

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And I've noticed at times, which is

what brought me to this awareness,

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is that, this person might get on

the phone sometimes and say, oh,

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let me tell you, and it's 20 minutes

about the week or life, or, I did

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this and I did this and I did this.

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And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no.

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Right.

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I know that that's not how I want.

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Maybe that works for some

of y'all, but not for me.

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So that I have that awareness of how

the sessions are going, but really

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not allowing for too much familiarity.

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Our clients want to, they naturally,

when you work with them over a period

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of time, they naturally become curious.

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About us as humans.

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And I do believe in giving some things

away information are you married?

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They know, my clients know I'm married,

they know I I'm a mom, but they

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don't know here's my home address.

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And this is there really

has to be a limitation.

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They know I live now in Arizona.

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I don't have any issues with

that kind of thing to create.

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They want, they need a little

bit of that bond over a period

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because the relationship changes.

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But we still, and You've heard me say this

and I think any of my clients that might

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be listening, and I know there are some,

you have to keep that plexiglass there.

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Right, so they can still see you, right?

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But they can't get so close that

they can touch you, and that to

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me is the illustration of what

the relationship should look like.

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So you really need to keep that

familiarity at bay, no matter

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how long you work with them.

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you're not inviting them

to Thanksgiving dinner.

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And if you are, probably

shouldn't be just saying.

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Okay.

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John: There would have to be.

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Exceptional circumstances, I think.

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There are Situations where I imagine that

could happen and you could still keep

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it within the professional boundaries,

but it is exceptional circumstances.

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And, certainly shouldn't be to a

point where you are encouraging a

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level of familiarity that takes you

outside of the coaching relationship.

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The same reason you probably

shouldn't really coach your friends

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or family is very hard to do that.

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It's very hard to see them for

their highest potential because

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you have baggage with them.

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They have baggage with you as well, and

they may not take you so seriously, but.

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one of the things that I talk

about often in speaking, is how.

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When you are in the public eye to some

degree, we're not talking about being

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celebrities here or anything, but there

are coaches who have gotten that path.

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Where You are in the public eye,

at least on social media, at

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least with maybe speaking events,

maybe podcasts and other things.

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There is a level to which you

can't just put everything out there

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and say, all right, this is me.

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Good, bad, dirty laundry,

all of it, skeletons in the

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closet, here's everything.

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in the name of authenticity.

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you will damage your credibility Well,

Aristotle in his rhetoric called ethos,

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your credibility is the, people's

ability to trust you and have confidence

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in you, confidence in the source.

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And if you damage that confidence,

if you damage that ability for them

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to trust you or see you in that

light, you damage that relationship.

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And so there has to be this curation

of how we project ourselves.

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To the public, to our clients of what

we actually share with them, because I

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think there are elements of our lives

we can share without crossing those

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friendship boundaries that give them

still some insight into who we are.

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But don't say, come on in,

you are in the inner circle.

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Angie: listen, and I think, yeah,

no, it makes a lot of sense.

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I had, this question has come up for

me because I never thought about it

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and I was, I didn't have my coaching

career started live and in person and

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in the way it started, it was with

people that I interacted with every

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day and I just became the business

coach, the professional coach.

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We worked for the same organization

that's, my training all of my.

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Early years were in that space.

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But when I actually was transitioning

into a coaching business, I did,

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I, I, I was taught by a couple of

companies that I was working with.

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We know I've worked for companies

as a coach and I was taught

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you don't meet with them.

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you don't, you don't give them

access, preferential access to you.

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And interestingly, since I was taught

that I have ha I, I have met coaches

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that are oh, one of my clients is gonna

be in town and we're gonna have a cup

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of coffee and my immediate re and I'm

not saying it's right or it's wrong.

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'cause I know friends of ours

might listen to this and go,

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Angie, what did you just say?

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You were talking about me.

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It may not be you 'cause I've had

this many times and the red listen in

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the back of my mind though, that red

flag goes up and says, wait a minute.

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Cup of coffee, we're meeting

up because you're not gonna sit

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and coach at a Starbucks, if

you will, over a cup of coffee.

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You're gonna be how are you?

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How do you love it here?

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This is so great.

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Look at how cute you are.

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I didn't know you.

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Some of my clients have seen me on camera.

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Some of them only know me by what

they see on social media, so.

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And I like it that way.

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So me personally, for me, per,

and I've had clients that are

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Angie, I'm gonna be in Arizona.

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can we meet?

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And I say no, I just don't do

it because I feel like there's

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something in that dynamic that

is going to change the outcomes.

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It's going to create

some kind of familiarity.

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To them, with them, for them

in our relationship that

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I don't want to be there.

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It doesn't mean that I can't

still have successful coaching

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with them because who knows?

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They might feel even better

and more trusting of me.

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I personally don't believe in it.

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However, post coaching relationship.

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After years, I've had people say,

Hey, Angie and their coaches, now

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they've started their own companies.

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Let's meet.

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I then consider them a colleague

and it's very different.

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I, I'm okay with that because that's

sometimes just how you meet people in

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a business, but you know what I mean?

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I just, yeah.

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John: There's

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Angie: had that?

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John: Yeah.

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yeah, and I think there's something

important in what you say there

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because, there, there's a reason why

college professors aren't allowed

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to date or fraternize with students.

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There's a reason why psychologists

and psychiatrists aren't allowed to

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date or fraternize with their clients.

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Kind of the same for us as well.

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there's an imbalance of power in

the relationship and just in terms

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of they are the person who has

essentially come to you to help them

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figure out what they want to do.

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You are in the more powerful position.

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You can still be.

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You can still be alright, we are

equals, but you are the authority,

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you are the person the, with the

expertise, with the ability that

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they've come to for that help.

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You have authority in that relationship.

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so I can definitely understand

when you say about connecting

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with people who've then become

coaches years after you coach them.

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That balance power, power

balances then become right.

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We can meet as equals.

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Angie: Yeah.

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John: Which, which is

much, much more sensible.

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But yeah, I think I, one time, one

time I met, a client for a coffee, in

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the uk in, in Kingston, in in London.

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And, and, and that's, it's, it's kind

of, it's only 'cause she was there with

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her boyfriend and she knew I was there.

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I said, Hey look, come, come and meet up.

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I'd just to meet you in person

because we had never met in person.

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So I thought, okay, that, that's fine.

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We did have a coffee.

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We didn't get into personal chat

and, and it, she wanted me to

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meet her, her boyfriend as well.

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Super nice guy.

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And she just told me what she was doing.

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It was a, it was really not a, not

a conversation that crossed any of

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the boundaries that I would've wanted

to make sure that I keep as a coach.

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But at the end of it, I

thought, was it really worth.

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All that, just so you could

actually see me in person.

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But was it worth it?

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I dunno.

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I dunno that it was.

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Angie: I had a situation where I was

working for a coaching company out

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there, and there was a big event that

the company was putting on, and it

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included not only the coaches for the

company, but it was a, big seminar,

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big event also for clients and.

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I will never forget, at the time, I, I had

20 or 25 clients of theirs, I probably met

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six of my, my current active clients were

at the event and it became a question.

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I was like, Hey.

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These people are asking,

Angie, you're gonna be there.

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Of course I'm gonna be there.

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I work for the company.

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And they were like, oh my gosh.

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I can't wait to meet you.

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I'm coming from, I'm coming from

Israel, I'm coming from California,

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I'm coming from, I can't wait.

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And I had to bring it up.

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I'm like, wait a minute.

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Because I also felt in that

circumstance, if we're gonna be in

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this giant ballroom at this event

for five day or four day event.

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I cannot avoid them.

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I don't think it's good practice

or good business in that.

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That scenario.

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so I, I said, Hey, this is, how

do you guys feel about this?

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And they were like,

listen, use your judgment.

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okay, so I, what are you wearing?

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I'm here, show me I'm this, I'm that.

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And they hugged me and oh my

gosh, it's, you honestly, it was a

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little uncomfortable because they

were like, oh my God, it's Angie,

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And I was like, ah, it's just me.

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'cause we didn't coach byvideo.

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we, that company we

coached over the phone.

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They didn't know me.

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So to see me in person was

very uncomfortable for me.

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But I, one of them, I will tell

you and I, how are you, can

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we go and have lunch together?

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And I'm like, I'm gonna be

sitting with the coaches.

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I don't wanna sound like an asshole,

but I had to with this one because

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she was like, let's meet up after,

let's go to my room, let's hang out.

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And she was awesome, great person.

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But I finally had to say,

I really can't do that.

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And butt hurt, feelings hurt.

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Complained about it.

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Thankfully I didn't have to

handle that, and they had to

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explain Hey, this is our policy.

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Your coach is following our policy,

but I, as a human, I felt this is

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why I don't wanna meet my clients.

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For this kind of client who's going

to be upset and hurt and feel rejected

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by me because I'm not willing to cross

the boundaries between this and that.

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We talk now, by the way, right?

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now we talk.

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We're now we're connected.

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But at the time I was

so uncomfortable, John.

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John: these, these boundaries are

generally unspoken though, and I think

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that's one of the hardest things with it.

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They, are boundaries that you kind of put

in place and you can keep them in place

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easily because of generally the nature

of how we run our coaching operations.

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But they are most, for the most part,

unspoken until they have to be spoken.

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Until we have to say, Hey, you know what?

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Angie: you though, do you ever have

clients ask you a question like that?

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they just forthright.

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They just go, Hey John, what

did you do this weekend?

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Or something?

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A direct, where they're inquiring

about you even and they put

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you, why are you laughing?

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What?

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John: Yeah, of course I have.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, of course.

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I have, I've worked with hundreds

of people over the years.

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I generally will say, Hey, look,

I had a very nice weekend, but

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we're not here to talk about me.

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We're, are here for a

different purpose, so let's.

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Get into that.

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So I will shift it back and just remind

'em, Hey, this is a professional call.

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And, I've never had a problem with that

and I've rarely, rarely had to use it.

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It has come up, but it's been rare.

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I'll just say, oh, I've just

left the city for a bit.

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I'll say something very casual,

but I'm not gonna give them detail.

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Yeah.

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We got out the city for a bit.

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Went, the countryside, went to a lake.

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It was very nice.

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How about you?

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How was your

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Angie: yes, yes.

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I was just gonna say that if somebody

says, oh, how was your holiday?

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Or How was your weekend?

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Oh, it was wonderful.

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Were you with family?

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Yes, I was with family.

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I was with friends.

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It's my happy time.

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You know, I love to cook

and people see my videos.

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I put cooking videos out, so

they say I saw your video.

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I, I didn't know you love to cook.

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I thought you were just a coach.

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And I'm like.

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No.

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Co cooking is what I do

when I'm not coaching.

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I'm not just this linear, one dimensional

being, but anyway, so I'm with you.

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I do believe that giving them something

to make it feel a little bit more

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personal without getting personal,

I'm not telling anybody oh yeah, I had

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the biggest fight with my husband this

morning, and oh God, can you imagine?

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never.

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I've heard you're laughing.

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I have heard coaches is doing that though.

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John: No way.

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Really, you've, you've

heard coaches do that,

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Angie: Yes.

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I'm kidding you.

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Not.

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When I was training coaches, I've heard

coaches say oh yeah, I work up, you

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know, when you have cramps, and I'm

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John: That's

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Angie: I'm on the line going,

what The actual shut up.

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John: Hey, look, I've heard of coaches

getting a little bit inappropriate

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with some of their conversations

before, certainly have dealt with

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those issues working in larger

coaching companies from time to time.

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But, yeah, I've also heard, definitely

have come across coaches who don't

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seem to be able to shut up about

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themselves, and will spend a

whole coaching call talking

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about themselves as well.

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And so the client will come away.

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Everyone experienced this

with a coach as well.

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you end up coming away feeling that

wasn't even a coaching call or, all we got

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outta that is that I knowI now know more

about you, but what do you know about me?

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Where was the coaching?

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yeah, that stuff is out there, but I've

always figured people like that aren't

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gonna make it long term in the industry.

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Angie: no, they would

probably be successful.

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And I'm saying this when I say a

low level client, I just mean people

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who have a, maybe never experienced

coaching before or a good coach.

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my favorite people to coach are

people who have already had coaching

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before because they do have some

kind of baseline or experience.

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So when I come in, it's not that

I'm the Messiah of coaching,

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but nine times outta 10.

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It's a very different experience for

them and I get great feedback from it.

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But your point is very valid that, yeah,

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John: I think most coaches prefer,

most of us prefer not having to explain

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how the coaching relationship works, I

think, but can Ilemme ask you a question.

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have you ever had the situation with a

client who's been with you for a long

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time, where there are, the red flags are

coming up in terms ofwe need to shake

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something up, or maybe it's time to draw

this coaching relationship to an end.

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Angie: absolutely, absolutely.

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when I have clients renew with me,

I make it a necessity conversation,

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not a sales conversation.

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And this is honest.

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I know people are gonna go,

oh, you're full of shit.

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It's a business.

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But honestly, ask any of the clients

have ever worked with me, whether

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for myself or other companies.

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When I am, when we're getting close to

the end of the relationship or the rounds

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of coaching that they've purchased, I

will say to them, let's do a review.

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What have you done and what do you want?

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What do you feel most challenged by?

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Because I feel through

the relationship as they.

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As they are experiencing growth

that brings them into a new place.

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It's almost I feel like there's always

something, even if we go back to

410

the same topics, we can still shake

things up, and make it different

411

and not make the same questions.

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Well, remember we talked about this.

413

Well, how do you feel about that Now

you have to remain, I think the big,

414

Tool that I use is I'm always looking

for the, I'm always curious from a

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new space, even from week to week

with them or whatever it is, biweekly.

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I think that is really tough to do.

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I think that's really

tough to do after years.

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But sometimes, right?

419

If we're, if we're familiar

enough with our clients, that

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can really work to our advantage.

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I think reviewing, so think about this

I don't know, do you take or give notes

422

when you, when you coach people, John?

423

John: Yeah, I share, I share

my core notes with clients.

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Yeah.

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Angie: Okay, so what I do as a, as

a coach is I kind of do a halfway

426

mark with them, and then at the

end I'll just go focus on the end.

427

I will say to them, here's what

I'd like you to do before our final

428

session, and I'm going to do the same.

429

And I literally will go back

to the beginning and I read

430

through the notes because,

431

we, we can only focus on so many

details at once, especially if

432

we're working with multiple clients.

433

By the way, I love reading the story

of the client through those notes

434

so that I can come to this and, and

even in my mind, set some kind of

435

direction and say, so what value

would you get if we moved forward?

436

What do you feel you need now?

437

You came in looking for X, Y, and Z.

438

This is what you, let them share

with me what they observed.

439

They love that, by the way.

440

They love going back and

reading that story of them.

441

And I think, I think how I

coach is never gonna change no

442

matter how long they're with me.

443

I am who I am.

444

How I shake things up, I

think is dependent upon.

445

Keeping that eye on this is where

it was and these are new challenges

446

that developed as a result.

447

And not trying to work, not being

a therapist, not trying to solve

448

the problems that are not solvable.

449

Right.

450

Because it is therapy.

451

I don't know.

452

That's the first thing that I do though.

453

I love to do that review over

time to go back, I think when we

454

first meet with people, we have

the big chunks of challenges.

455

And I think as time goes on, new

big challenges may come as well.

456

New, big challenges, but looking for those

little granules of sand, the things that

457

weren't as important in the beginning.

458

There's always granules of sand.

459

In fact, that's the predominant

space, why I've been able to work

460

with clients for years, because

there's always that little pick.

461

John: Yeah, look, I there, there's a few

things that come up me that I think one of

462

the first ones I'll, and this is more of a

comment 'cause the other one's a question

463

for you as well, but more of a comment

on this is I've definitely had clients

464

who've been a bit at some point where

you're maybe having those sort of coming

465

up to renewal sort of conversations.

466

Saying, oh, I feel like things are,

I dunno if I really need to continue

467

with the coaching or, they've

got nothing left to talk about.

468

I said, all right, your,

your life must be perfect.

469

Now.

470

I guess that's job done.

471

We can tick the box.

472

Everything is great, right?

473

Well, no, because nobody's is,

and no, not everything is great.

474

So there is stuff to work on and.

475

We want to get into that conversation.

476

It's whether it's with me or with someone

else, if you don't mind car work with me.

477

Okay.

478

Find someone else to work with, but

no, let's not, let's not pretend that

479

there's not still stuff to work on.

480

It's, it's generally just a way to try and

get out of an awkward conversation what

481

they think is an awkward conversation.

482

But have you, have you ever

had people try and avoid those

483

conversations with you because.

484

Or what, whatever reason or another,

they just don't want to have that

485

review or renewal conversation with you.

486

Angie: yeah, I would have to say yes.

487

And unfortunately, it's sad to say I,

I feel for the most part, a lot of that

488

resistance, if you will, is financial.

489

I've really never had anybody come and,

and go, I don't wanna look and review me.

490

Everybody loves themselves.

491

They wanna know about themselves, right?

492

They wanna take a different perspective.

493

So that's never the challenge.

494

It's okay.

495

So, and I'm not that salesperson

that's well, what's the cost

496

of not continuing with me?

497

I will not have that kind of conversation.

498

I had to do it with certain

companies that I worked for.

499

I, in my own practice,

absolutely not happening.

500

So I have a way to talk to

people about that, but I want

501

it to genuinely be about them.

502

And I think the resistance,

although I have had.

503

Such a small percentage, maybe

1% of clients that because we are

504

actually making progress and one of

their challenges is success, right?

505

they've resisted.

506

So I have had that happen in that

scenario, but most of the time I'm

507

being very honest, in my experience,

it's been more of resistance because

508

it's more of a financial investment.

509

And that unfortunately is always

a question mark for people.

510

John: Yeah, no where, where,

where it's been possible.

511

I have gone back to people who've avoided

that conversation and just said, Hey,

512

look, can I just ask, did you just

not want to have that conversation?

513

Or, had you already made, made

the decision and didn't wanna say

514

what, what was, what's going on?

515

It's no pressure or anything for me,

but it would be good for me to note

516

just just for, for my benefit and

for, going forward into the future.

517

The ones who did respond would

generally say something, something

518

along the lines of, I didn't wanna

get on the call because I thought you

519

would convince me to stay in coaching.

520

Angie: Convince you?

521

John: Yeah.

522

Yeah.

523

I thought you would sell

me into more coaching.

524

I didn't want to be

persuaded to it and yourself.

525

I am not that guy for me and I, again,

you could ask any of my coaching clients.

526

I will say to even once when I worked

for companies where I was supposed to

527

do that, I still would, to the degree,

I would still have, I would still have a

528

very honest conversation with them about.

529

the only reason you should ever renew

your coaching with me or with anyone

530

else is because you're getting value

from it and you want to stay in it.

531

If there are, if there are financial

issues that are stopping you from doing

532

that, have a strategy that can help you

manage that going forward if you want it.

533

But if the issue is that you

don't actually want to continue

534

with the coaching, that's okay,

535

but that should really be,

536

Angie: I'm

537

John: do I guilt

538

Angie: but Yeah, because I, I, I,

listen, that's a dumb question.

539

Sorry folks.

540

I know John doesn't guilt anybody,

but even when you work maybe for other

541

companies, sometimes I think that

there is this push to go, well, what?

542

there's this way that

the words are twisted.

543

To make it, to shame them into not wanting

oh, so you're perfectly okay with where

544

you are and you don't wanna grow anymore.

545

That's what you're telling.

546

it's a really bad practice.

547

And when people would renew,

548

John: Yeah.

549

Angie: shock.

550

I'd be like, really?

551

mm, I don't know, but

do you know what I mean?

552

John: No, I mean it's fair enough based

on what I said before, alright, so life's

553

perfect now, it's no, just 'cause I want

to get to the real reason, but I'm not

554

gonna use, even then, I wouldn't use that

as to be oh, well you should stay with me.

555

I don't want somebody to stay in

a coaching relationship that they

556

don't really want to be in, or that

they felt pressured to continue.

557

I

558

Angie: don't weaponize people's challenges

to get them to work with you, because

559

that's, I think what I'm trying to say.

560

It's horrible practice to do

561

John: I want, I want them, I want 'em

to try and be honest about what's going

562

on for them, but I do not want to, as

you say, weaponize that against them.

563

and I certainly have known coaches who

will have no compunction about doing

564

that and saying, oh, you don't wanna,

you, certainly in the initial stages,

565

oh, you don't wanna work together.

566

I, I guess this isn't really a

problem for you after all, oh, well.

567

Angie: I opening the idea

though, I'm being honest.

568

I, anybody who ever talks to me,

family, friends, co clients, past

569

clients, I'm a believer in coaching.

570

Coaching to me is, it can be forever.

571

But the more I'm gonna tell you this

folks, the as a coach, the longer you

572

coach clients, the better you need to be.

573

As a coach so that you are still

providing great value for them.

574

But with that being said,

because that's my mindset,

575

that's my intention as a coach.

576

I believe wholeheartedly in what I do.

577

It's not just an occupation for me.

578

So when I get into a relationship

with people and they sign on and

579

I say to them, so let me just

set a couple of expectations.

580

I'm sorry.

581

I'm a coaching geek.

582

I love coaching.

583

I, I believe everybody could be in

coaching forever and ever and ever.

584

Obviously, that's not my expectation

of you, but I don't ever want

585

you to feel like this is it.

586

There's always more to be done, but

that doesn't mean that the work we do

587

during this specific or structured time.

588

Isn't going to be enough

for you for right now.

589

I literally close the door and

open the door at the same time.

590

I take that pressure off of them

so that they're more focused on the

591

outcomes of what's happening than,

oh, what now she's gonna sell me.

592

Oh.

593

Oh.

594

I don't wanna do that

because it's been done.

595

I, everybody who knows me knows I do

not like to be sold to, even if I love

596

the boots in the window, if I walk in.

597

Don't try and sell me the boots.

598

Let, if I ask for them,

let me try them on.

599

And if I love them, don't tell me,

oh girl, those look so cute on you.

600

I'm not buying the flipping boots.

601

Now you pissed me off and you're

ruin the experience for me.

602

Take 'em back.

603

Even though I loved 'em, that's me.

604

So you're laughing, but

it's so absolutely true.

605

So I

606

John: Yeah, no, I'm the same.

607

Yeah, I'm the same.

608

I don't like, I don't think most people

like being sold to, and I think people are

609

more resistant to it now than ever before.

610

More aware of the things that people

do in order to get that more aware

611

of how, flattery or persistence

can sometimes be used or shame or

612

guilt, as I remotely mentioned.

613

But lemme ask you,

614

Angie: Yeah.

615

John: I think we have some identifications

about some of the things you might

616

wanna consider or look out for, to,

that might be showing a bit of a

617

coaching rut or a bit of staleness in

the coaching relationship over time.

618

But when it comes to freshening

things up or revitalizing that

619

relationship, what, what would you do?

620

What do you, what actions do

you take with your clients?

621

Angie: I think it's just different

tactics, different curiosity.

622

'cause again, I coach the way I coach,

so I think even for somebody they think

623

the longer we coach, the more routine.

624

It's like driving the car, right?

625

When you first learn to drive a

car, you're very aware of, oh,

626

the windshield wipers are here.

627

We're very aware of specifics.

628

But then Very short time after that, we

get into the car and we don't have to.

629

Think about things we're

not doing a checklist.

630

So I do think, and we talked about this,

right, giving ourselves some analysis at

631

the end of every session, I don't wanna

say to you that I use a specific tool.

632

I don't go, Ooh, now

we, let me go to this.

633

This isn't, it's really about.

634

Keeping that freshness in my

mind about me nodding, not

635

allowing it to become mundane.

636

Do you know, I don't know how

to exactly explain it, which is

637

kind of terrible for this, but.

638

It's really me doing that self-analysis,

which is what brought us to this

639

topic today, and being able to say,

640

I don't think that, what if I

listen to a call that's recorded

641

or I do that self-analysis

after each or that assessment?

642

After each session, one of the things

that I am aware of and I do question,

643

so maybe this is a good tool actually.

644

look, it shows you just how familiar

I've become, but I do this, it'sdid I

645

challenge enough and was I curious enough?

646

So I think that if I can maybe

keep those two things fresh and I

647

say no, if the answer is ever no.

648

Could I have asked more?

649

That I think is how I might get

that out of, or keep it out of

650

the space of becoming stagnant day

old bread, stale day, old bread.

651

I.

652

John: so listen.

653

Now if you felt you could have

put that better than Angie,

654

we are accepting applications

for a new co-host of the show.

655

No, no.

656

I completely agree with

what you said, Angie.

657

and just to maybe add onto that as well.

658

I do think that.

659

I'm not gonna change how I coach.

660

I hope I can always bring new things

in that keep things growing and

661

developing and working with the clients.

662

I wanna have conversations that make

sure they're getting the value out of it.

663

I don't want to.

664

try, oh, I've discovered this new

coaching technique and I must try it in

665

a session just for the sake of trying

to keep things fresh, because you're

666

probably not gonna continue, you will

end up reverting back to what you usually

667

do in your coaching sessions anyway.

668

At some point.

669

It's just gonna feel a bit gimmicky

to try and do those things.

670

So you really want to carry on probably

coaching as you are coaching, but

671

making sure that that is actually

working for both of you in that

672

situation and in the relationship that.

673

Everyone's getting what

they need outta this.

674

Angie: I listen, one of the things,

and I don't wanna start a whole new

675

conversation, I know we're at the

end, but one of the things that I

676

do challenge people with is asking

them at the halfway mark, how can

677

I be more challenging for you?

678

I always ask that question.

679

I even send out a midpoint survey

to clients just to get a feel, and I

680

tell them, be honest, brutally honest.

681

Angie's not bringing her game.

682

I felt more challenged in session one than

I did in session eight, whatever that is.

683

And I tell them, do not worry about

hurting my feelings, but don't

684

also use it as just a way to rant.

685

This is constructive feedback

because I wanna show up better.

686

And one of the questions on the

questionnaire is literally how can I

687

be, how I forget how I actually worded

it, but how can I be more challenging?

688

Where do you feel you need

more challenge in our sessions?

689

When you ask that question, a lot

of people might go, oh, it's fine.

690

I know I need to come at them harder

just because of the way they answered.

691

But give them an opportunity to assess

and think about the challenge of, or

692

how they feel they're being challenged.

693

Because it's different for everybody

telling somebody or showing somebody

694

they can clean their bathroom.

695

Which has been a problem for somebody.

696

You're laughing, but that was a true story

for me as a coach and them actually wiping

697

the spittle off the sink and the shower.

698

I mean, not the shower the

mirror was a huge step.

699

You and I might go really?

700

But again, that's where

objectivity comes in.

701

So, challenge is gonna change

based on the client as well.

702

It's not a, a straight across

the board different people need

703

different things at different times.

704

John: Yeah, well, if it helps you Angie,

find you very challenging, so Yeah.

705

that's,

706

Angie: You are gonna get, you're

so lucky that you are not in the US

707

and not within arms reach right now.

708

Mr.

709

John: yeah,

710

Angie: Yeah.

711

Lemme just say this for the record.

712

John has been busting my chops since

we started chatting this morning.

713

I just wanted to tell

y'all that, just saying

714

John: Yeah, I, I, I'm, I'm

feeling very impish today.

715

I, I

716

Angie: You are.

717

John: play playful.

718

I think we've, I think we've.

719

Yeah.

720

Yeah.

721

I'd love to.

722

We'd love, definitely

love to hear from you.

723

what are your thoughts

or ideas about this?

724

Have you had long-term clients

and things gone, been going stale?

725

Have you felt that, that you

need to keep them there longer?

726

Or, you push, push to keep the

relationship going maybe longer

727

than it should, or, and maybe you

have other ideas, other ideas or

728

insights about this, then we do.

729

We'd certainly love to hear them,

but I think we've, as best we can,

730

we've done some justice to the topic

today and we'll be back next time

731

with more from the coaching clinic.