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Highlights

• How she got into sales at a very young age and her incredible sales journey to date (02:04)
• Combining her love for relationships and her listening skills to kill it in sales (07:39)
• Sales No-Nos: The mistakes that product-centric companies make (09:49)
• Why you need to start recording your customer conversations (12:28)
• Consistently closing more sales by always living in the buyer’s world (16:26)
• The immense power of customer-centricity (23:20)
• Going through a positively impactful trial by fire that helped her thrive personally and professionally (28:23)

In this episode of the Transformed Sales Podcast, I interviewed Janice B. Gordon, the founder of Scale Your Sales Podcast and framework. Janice is a consultant, international speaker, educator, and facilitator. She’s a customer growth expert and top 50 global thought leader and influencer on customer experience. Janice is multi-award-winning and listed #25 of the Top 100 Global Business Influencer 2017, #4 Sales Guru 2020 and author of “Business Evolution: Creating Growth in a Rapidly Changing World” and co-author of “Heels to Deals: How Women are Dominating in Business to Business Sales”

She uses her 20+ years of business, sales, customer experience, and leadership to unleash hidden potential and accelerate revenue growth by investing in customer alignment and buyer engagement. "It's not all about you. It's all about your customers" says Janice. Join us as she shares her expertise on the nature of sales today, how to win and keep customers, what it takes to develop relationships, and so much more.

Quotes

“The sales will happen if you have the right product for the right customer, and you create the right experience” - Janice B. Gordon

“Once you have the language of the customer, you have to go in and interpret how what you have in terms of product or service is going to help the customer to move forward” - Janice B. Gordon

“The sales industry we’ve been so arrogant to think that what we’ve got is the best and everyone is going to need it, but that’s not the case” - Janice B. Gordon

“People are solution-centric. They’re never product-centric” - Janice B. Gordon

“Women in sales are the highest achievers and performers, but we’ve got one side where women are great sellers and another side where there are so many barriers, so there is still a lot of work to be done” - Janice B Gordon

Resources Mentioned:

• Business Evolution By Janice B. Gordon - https://www.amazon.com/Business-Evolution-Creating-rapidly-changing/dp/1497304911
• Heels to Deals By Janice B. Gordon - https://www.amazon.com/Heels-Deals-Dominating-Business-Business-ebook/dp/B09TFCD13V

Learn More About Janice in the Links Below:

• LinkedIn - https://uk.linkedin.com/in/janice-b-gordon
• Website - https://janicebgordon.com/

Connect with Wesleyne Greer:

• Wesleyne’s Website - https://transformedsales.com/
• Wesleyne on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/wesleynegreer/
• Wesleyne on Facebook - https://web.facebook.com/wesleynegreer
• Wesleyne on Twitter - https://twitter.com/wesleynegreer
• Email Her at wesleyne@transformedsales.com

As a sales manager, you are judged by the

performance of your team, and you're praised when they do

well. But one thing that you've not been able to figure out is

how to get everyone on your team consistently hitting quota every

single month. On the Snack size sales podcast, we discuss the

science of selling stem sales leadership in the science,

technology, engineering and manufacturing fields is

difficult. You will learn from sales managers just like you

that will give you actionable insights and tips on how to

develop as a leader and achieve your revenue targets every

single month. So pop your headphones in and get ready to

listen to my guests today. They will give you information and

inspiration to ensure that you have actionable insights that

you can put into place today. Hello, and welcome to the

transform your sales podcast today. I am so so excited to be

speaking with Janice B. Gordon. How are you, Janice?

Oh, it's great to be here.

Thank you so much. He is all the way in the

UK, which is why I love this world where we can just both pop

on here and have this great conversation

certainly is really very convenient, isn't

it? It is it is.

So let me tell you a little bit about Janice

Janice B. Gordon is the customer growth expert. She uses her 20

plus years of business sales, customer experience and

leadership to unleash hidden potential and accelerate revenue

growth by investing in customer alignment and buyer engagement.

She's the founder of scale your sales podcast and framework.

She's listed as a top 50 global thought leader and influencer

and customer experience. She's a consultant, international

speaker, educator and facilitator and author of

business evolution, creating growth in a rapidly changing

world and co author appeals to deals how women are dominating

in business to business sales. Wow. So 20 plus years, and you

are the customer growth expert. So how did you get started? And

how did you get to where you are today?

I started selling when I was 15. I had designs

that I made. And people would say, Oh, can you make me one.

And that's how it all started. I never thought I would be in

sales. But I always thought I'd be an entrepreneur in and in

business. And that's the route that I took. And no one ever

told me that actually, if you're in business, you're in sales in

schools, it's never laid out that way really, and how

important sales is to business that connection was never made.

So I did my degree in fashion textiles and business and went

down the business side of fashion and textile selling

textile designs. And my father was in America. So I got on a

plane, I took my samples over and I called people and sold a

lot of the samples. I mean, it was a real asset having an

English accent on the phone calling a design director. So I

sold for many years, I set up a business after I finished my

first degree and would go out to America selling to contract and

fashion houses or contract furnishings that was and then

linked up with an American company and sold their samples

designs in England. So going to scientists and liberties and the

like. And I remember sometimes I'd be on the phone to people

selling the American samples in in the UK. And then when I

turned up their face would drop because I wasn't expecting a

black woman, but I capitalize on on that I did a lot of field

sales. I then went to Botswana and worked out there for a

number of years. When I returned, I started working in

financial service sales. And it's actually only at that point

that I got my sales training my formal sales training, and at

that time, we could cold call in the UK so it'd be a Tuesday I'd

have to be in by eight o'clock and it'd be stand up cold

calling and Tuesday evening between seven and eight stand up

cold calling I hate

I really love the relationship building and I'm helping my

clients and companies to achieve their goals. But the cold

calling bit I really didn't like at all there was no relationship

and it was just seems so kind of forced really. So then I did my

MBA Cranfield MBA, and I did that because I was still

interested in business and it was great experience and I was

running my own own company and growing it and meeting wonderful

people. But I felt that I wanted more than that. And the MBA was

to enable me to kind of bridge back across to entrepreneurship,

bigger business. So I did my Cranfield MBA, and that was one

of those experiences I had an assistants that were sitting in

my desk in the The Office and I didn't tell the company that

sells company I was doing an MBA because I knew that my

commission, you know, if you've, you're in sales at that time,

you don't tell them you're leaving, because then it's

really difficult to get your last paycheck. So I did the, and

though they think you're not serious about what you're doing,

even if it's your own business, you're actually sitting in a

serviced office knew you buy in some of their services,

compliance, and so forth. So I left the sales industry

financial services on the slide, really to make sure I got my

last pay slip. And I moved into operations management with the

help of my MBA. And that was a fantastic experience, because I

learned a lot more about health and safety and recruiting people

and training them up. And I worked my way out of a job.

Because I'm very much a start. I like to create systems. That's

what I loved about business, creating systems making sure

that they work and sales process is another business system. But

now it's very much more of an ecosystem, which I don't mind

talking about. So that's how my kind of early started in sales.

Thereafter, I work for a customer experience consultancy.

And that changed my view of what sales is about previously, it

was about pushing we're salespeople, we have all the

information, we're pushing it on our customers, we're ringing

them up, we're telling them what they should do, the industry has

changed now where it's pulling, customers make all of the

decisions, buyers have all of the information, and they're the

ones doing the selecting. And so the experience has changed that

you need to provide. So customer experience really taught me that

customers are your best creators and innovators as buyers, they

know what they want and what they're looking for. They have

all of the cards. And so I started to change the way that I

sold. And it became very much more consultative, but also very

much about the experience, because I've learned all of this

great information about how important experiences and that's

very much true today, there are stats to say that experience

Trumps price and product features and benefits now, and

people are willing to pay more for great experiences, what if

they're willing to pay more, and it trumps all those other

traditional things, and it's something we need to be paying

attention to. And that's what I do in scale your sales, it's all

about reimagining the revenue growth through customer

experience and sales, the sales will happen if you have the

right product for the right customer and you create the

right experience.

Wow. So you have such a diverse background,

because you actually started your career as an independent

salesperson, whereas so many people typically they start for

companies and like yeah, I don't like it. And then you went back

and worked for a company and got those solid sales skills and you

realize the things that you really enjoyed and the things

that you didn't enjoy. So what were some of the lessons that

you still use and implement today that you learned way back

when when you first started out in sales,

what I loved about sales with relationships,

I love talking, and I have very good listening skills. So that's

what I absolutely adored about my job. And when in compliance,

they tried to change that. So they you know, you would have a

recommendation letter go to compliance and you'll come back,

you'd be 10 times before it got passed through compliance. By

the end, you got this recommendation letter that had

nothing to do with the customer you're selling it to, because

they were thinking about protecting the company. And if

you're in that kind of environment, if that's the

primary thing that they're looking for, we don't want any

come back. So that means you have no faith in what you're

doing. And you're forcing all these people that do have faith

that because they have the relationship with a customer,

you're forcing them down the line. That's why I decided to

come out of financial services sales, it didn't feel good, it

didn't feel right. It wasn't about the relationship and doing

good for the customer. When I went into customer experience, I

thought oh my gosh, I found home it's all about the customer.

This is what didn't seem right to me in sales. And absolutely,

when I've got it in customer experience, I thought I'm still

an entrepreneur, I know that sales is the core to all

business and business growth. I have all my MBA experience. I

know this is right, and it was just that little birth kind of

third leg of the stool that I needed to put it all together to

fall in love again with sales.

So really not saying add this, I don't like

this company. I don't like this industry. I'm gonna try

something different. You really were able to tap into your

passion and understand that customer experience is the way

to go. And you mentioned you know, hey, you're having to send

this to compliance and then it goes to a customer and it's so

product centric. So what are some of the challenges that you

see today with come buddies that are so focused on being product

centric.

Well, and they wonder why they're not selling?

You know, I do you have a we, you know, in the kind of tech

environment, you have these great, really sharp tech people,

but they don't have the language of the customer, which is the

first thing that I can't talk to them about interviewing your

customers recording their language, what is the way they

describe their pains, their problems? What is the way they

describe what their ideal solution, this is the language

you need to be using? Not the tech language, not the language

you created this great service or product with because no one

gets that absolutely not your customer. So that's the first

thing that's changed. But also the you know, we've been through

a pandemic, we've all working virtually now and starting to go

back to face to face. And it's really understanding that our

buyers and our customers have always been in the VA. Well, you

know, they've been ahead of us in the virtual world in the way

that they're using their tools and their apps. And its sales.

It's catching up to that. And I think one thing that's happening

in sales is we're going down the techie route, going down the

data, and we're forgetting about sales is still about humans,

even if you're b2b. It's still about humans making the decision

until the robots are making decisions. So don't throw out

what we know about what's all great about our human nature and

human human behaviors. Don't throw that out. Yes, we need to

sharpen our saw. And yes, data is absolutely important to help

with our decision making. But at the end of the day, people are

the ones that are still making those decisions.

That's so good. Early in my career when I was

still a salesperson, I'm a recovering chemist, I like to

tell people that but I always sold to engineers. And what I

learned is I couldn't use language that chemists

understood, I can start talking about equations and this and

this and that I need to speak engineer. And so a lot of times

I will tell people, I speak engineer, because that's what my

clients be. And if you're selling to doctors, or lawyers,

or CEOs, or maybe you're selling to customer service people, you

have to really understand the words they use, right? When you

can use their actual words, their phrases, they're like,

this person gets me, right.

Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. That's the

starting point. That is the bare minimum.

And so when you say okay, first, we need to

literally record our customer conversations, ask them these

difficult questions, understand, like, why do you buy from me why

you buy from my competitor? Then once you have all of that

information? How do you translate that and help people

become more problem centric, more buyer centric, and less

product centric,

people are solution centric, they're always

about what's in it. For me, they're never about product

centric, ever, ever, ever about product centric, because they

don't really care if it's a drill, they want the hole, they

want the solution. So that's their key focus. So using their

language and using how they describe the solution. They

never describe the product. They describe how the problem will

help them, they use emotional words, and they describe the

exacting solution that they want. Customers are very good at

that. The problem is that in the sales industry, we've been so

arrogant to think that what we've got is the best, and

everyone's going to need it. And that's not the case. So once you

have the language of the customer, you have to go in and

interpret what do what I have in terms of products or service.

How is that going to help the customer to move forward not

necessarily to get a sale at the end of the day, it's moving step

by step, what information do they need right now to move them

on to the next step, what we tend to do so we give them the

whole pie. And it's just information overload because we

think we're starting to have a conversation with a seller

they've given us some of the information of what they're

looking for. I need to close that sale. Close it down right

now. Because we've shown some interest, right I'm so now we're

going full steam ahead. We tell our managers that this is a done

deal. We're committed ourselves and now the pressure is on. And

again, we're thinking about ourselves, we've completely come

out and we've got this great language that the customer has

given us and great value proposition, key words and

things that's interested them. And as soon as they give us a

little bit of information, then we go back into ourselves again,

and we're thinking about it from our point of view and we've lost

the sale. So always, always have the customer with a seat at the

table always have their information, their language at

the forefront, not only of your mind if you have to put it on

your walls when you're working on a customer deal, then that's

the only thing that you should be looking at Put yourself in

their shoes, whatever tools, you need to do that visualization,

have your screens as if you're in their space in their factory,

you've got to completely absorb yourself with their world. And

you have to keep using that going back and referencing that

not only the when you start pitching and talking to them and

moving them along their journey, but whenever you're creating

anything for them, don't put it in a bottom drawer, it always

has to be at the forefront. And even six months later, this

summer is something that I teach salespeople, my clients that I

work with, if six months later, you're able to reference the

conversation that that buyer, that customer said to you using

their language, they always recognize it. They always,

always recognize it. And what does that say to them, this

person's on my side, this person listens to me, this person

values what we value. And that helps you to go forward.

Wow, that's so powerful. It's you said it's not

product focus, it's more that they're their solution focus.

It's like they hear they're like, Okay, I get that I can't

talk about myself, I need to be focused on them. As soon as you

hear one little thing, you jump, and you're ready to close,

right? But you're not following at the speed of the buyer,

right. And so a lot of times, we're ready to close, we're

ready to move, but the buyer is like, I'm still in my evaluation

phase. So how do we bridge the gap between what the salesperson

wants to do and what that actual buyer wants to do?

But well, it doesn't really matter what the

salesperson wants to do. That's irrelevant. That's the point.

You know, it is the buyers, well, the buyers are the ones

that are making the decisions, they're dictating the pace. And

so it's really difficult for salespeople to grasp that

concept. And until they do, they'll always be on the

backfoot. So we need to just relinquish our control over the

situation, we don't have any control, we're always going to

be followers. And that's the way of the world now. But the better

you are able to follow really closely, eventually, you'll be

anticipating. And Steve Jobs said this years and years ago

about this is the goal of Apple to anticipate needs. And the way

that that happens is that you relinquish control first

understand the world we're in right now. And this is it.

You're never going to have the world you had in the 1990s and

the naughties that has gone, the internet, we've already sold on

to that informations already out there. There's no point shutting

the gate because it's already bolted. This is the world that

we're in. So we are followers, but your job is to follow really

close. As soon as they make a step, you make an a step,

eventually, you're going to learn the dance, you're going to

learn the buyers and the customers dance, because you've

been following so close. They're the leaders, they're leading in

the dance. And once you've got there, you're going to be able

to anticipate the next step. And then once you've got there,

you're going to be able to anticipate the next three steps

and guide them through the next three steps. And then once

you've got there, you're developing a relationship into a

partnership, so that you're both entwined. But the fact is, you

have to learn their language. It's like going to another

country, as we have English people often do, and expect

everyone to speak English, that doesn't go, you're in someone

else's country. So you need to learn their language, if you

want to sell to them. And you need to start speaking their

language. And eventually, you'll know the language. So well,

you'll be talking humor, you'll be you'll know the nuances,

you'll be leading in the joke, and they'll all get it. But it

takes time for that to happen. And what you've got to do as a

seller is invest in that time.

Wow, that is so powerful. Because one thing that

you said that's so interesting is when you go to another

country, don't expect someone to speak your language, right? Like

when I go to London, I don't expect for you guys to drive on

the same side of the road that I do, I have to know that, hey,

I'm in your world, I can't just barrel down the road and drive

on the wrong side of the road. Right. And so really removing

yourself. And one of the things that I really think is so

important is if you're thinking about the next step, your next

question what you should do next, you're not immersed in

their world, right? If you're have any apprehensions about

you, the seller or the company or the product, you're doing it

wrong. Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

So you've written a couple books. Tell us

about the business evolution. What is that all about?

So the business evolution published in 2014, and

it was came out of the experience I was actually I was

I went into entrepreneurship and had a restaurant on bar. I

employ 20 staff. What I learned was there was many others that

went out of business. This was just after the economic crash.

And we were still growing. And the reason for that was applying

some of these strategies. When I came out of the business, I

realized what it was that created that kind of essential

value. We were using social media before a lot of these

companies, businesses had been in business 10 years, they were

doing things that the way that they used to do, they've always

done them. We were new incumbents. So we had adopted

the new ways of engaging our customers. Plus, I had come out

of customer experience. So I realized that customers were

primary, I stayed close. Remember, I was talking about

staying really close to the customers. So I created great

relationships with a unique group of customers that had

other groups that they were the key influences in. So all I had

to do was tell my key group of people what was going on, and

they would invite other people from their groups, I understood,

that's the way it worked. And it was very personable, I knew them

by you know, first name, but I stayed in regular contact with

them. So all of these things that I learned so and I came up

with the four essential piece, which was personality, you've

got to put your personality into your business, even if you're an

employee, you've got to leave with your own unique personality

purpose, you've got to understand why you're doing it.

And I also talk about what you can do that no one else can do

in the way you do it really important. And then Pleasure is

all about the customer experience. What's your

pleasure, sir? How can I make life better for you? So it's all

about the focused on your customers. Now, if you're an

employee, it's the focus on your employees that create the

customer experience for your customers. So it's about giving

pleasure, how do I do that, and then processes the fourth

essential P I discovered in business because I created a

business association and supported lots of other

businesses to help them to grow through the difficulties having

the MBA background. So process is that we often create

processes based on where we've been before. So Will people or

will have worked for large companies, they understand the

process, they adopt that process for a small business, it doesn't

work, but also understanding processes that we design, or

what we understand. And when a customer comes to your website

or in through your doors, it makes sense to you from your

position. From your perspective, it's completely nonsense to the

customer. From their perspective, they don't know

where to go, you haven't given them clear directions. So your

processes are blocking your customers from doing business

with you. So it's really about understanding how you can create

processes to give customer excellence, to give great

experiences, to make it really easy and frictionless and easy

for your customers.

Wow. And that was almost a whole 10 years ago.

And it sounds like a lot of the principles that you use as a

business owner of you know, this bar and restaurant, you're still

able to apply to your clients today. And so when you think

about your very vast and diverse career, the time you were in the

textiles, industry, financial services, owning your own

business, and now as a speaker and a consultant, give me an

experience that you feel changed the trajectory of your career,

one experience.

I know it's hard.

What changed my trajectory? Was the working for

the customer experience because it was this the missing leg.

That's the thing that really changed it. But every time I

kind of revisit this every year, you know, you do your business

plan, you think, Am I doing the right thing? Am I in the right?

It just almost I'm ahead of my time, as you say with the book

that's still relevant now. But also the fact that if you want

to reimagine your sales revenue, you have to focus on customer

experience. So I've been with this for last 17 years talking

about the relationship between customer experience and sales

and talking about, you know, customer centricity. You've got

to put your customers first you've got to understand their

language, all of these things is what people are beginning to

work with. There's lots more stats out there. That's proven

what I I've been talking about for a long time. So I think it's

really those things really.

Wow, so you're a complete early adopter, because

17 years ago, you were thinking about this customer experience

that everybody's jumping on the bandwagon with today, right?

They're all like yes, yes, yes, customer focus, do this do that.

But you were a very early adopter of this. You've also

recently been featured or written co authored another book

tell us about that

heals two deals, how women are dominating b2b

sales. And this was from Heidi Solomon auric. Has girls who

sell and girls who sell is to encourage school you EVA'S into

sales, and really help them to think about sales as a serious

career option. And so she's thinking, how can I get the word

out and decided that which she would pull together women sales

professionals that have different stories to tell, it's

an excellent book, and really inspiring it is for women that

are thinking about going into sales. But I also think it's for

women that already in sales, it's very inspiring stories, and

helps you to see that you're not alone. Whatever experience you

have had, it is in the books, someone's had it before there is

a community of women. The thing is, I find out that scale

yourselves podcast, I interview 50% Women 20% ethnic minorities,

because it's important that their voices heard, I find it

difficult to find the equal amount of men and women and I

know you're shaking your head here, women are not as visible.

Well, one reason is there aren't as many women in sales, because

we've been actively discouraged. And there's lots of barriers to

women getting into sales. So it's great what Heidi is doing a

many other I'm part of women's sales pro, and they you know,

Lori Richardson is doing incredible work, you'll Conrad

kind of started all of this with the campaign of getting more

women on sales stages. So there's a lot of forerunners to

all of this. But it's we've really got to keep the pressure

up the stats of 17% women sales leaders is absolutely poor and

hasn't changed for the last 10 years, or stats or 30% Women in

sales at that hasn't changed. The fact that you know, 50% of

salespeople do not hit target means that there's something

wrong in the system in the way that we're applying the system.

It's broken, it doesn't work. And I could have a whole podcast

on that one as well. But women in sales are the highest

achievers and performers. So you know, you've got on one side

where women are great sellers. And on the other side where

there's all these barriers. So there's still a lot of work to

be done.

Wow, I can hear your passion about women in

sales, ethnic minorities in sales. And it's so true. There's

a community that I'm a part of, and they have forums throughout

the year. And so in January, the kickoff that they had, I was

like, you don't have any ethnic minority speaking. And they're

like, oh, my gosh, was lean, we've been trying, but we can't

find any, I'm like you're not trying hard enough. So I

literally combed through my LinkedIn, and it was so hard for

me to find CROs VPs of sales that were ethnic minorities,

right, or even women. And so it is a very big challenge that

we're working through. And I always say that the problem is

we don't have enough entry level women in sales. And then when we

get them in sales, we're not supporting them enough so that

they want to stay and make this a career and move up their

ladder. So there's so many multifaceted challenges that we

have there.

Absolutely, absolutely. We often have

companies that will recruit more women, but nothing changes in

the culture. The Yes. How's that

gonna work? Yes. When they just they just check

the box on the diversity, right? They say okay, yeah, we've hired

more women with hire more ethnic minorities, and Okay, so we've

done what we needed to do, but then they leave in nine months.

No, you haven't done what you need to do you have a revolving

door? Yeah, absolutely. So when you think about your very

successful and amazing career, I'm gonna pin you down. For one

thing again, what is one thing you're most proud of

accomplishing personally or professionally?

Gosh. I'm not normally what so personally and

professionally, I think I can probably have to come on.

Personally, I'm proud that I have lived in different parts of

the world and traveled to different parts of the world,

from a young age. That's created a very different mindsets that

I'm comfortable of being the only in a room, I see that as an

opportunity. I'm working the room when I go in the room, but

it's taken a lot to get to that stage. But I got to that stage

when I was I was young, because we were the only black family in

this village. It was hostile, I can tell you in England, the

only black family in this village for 15 years, you know,

going through the school system, they didn't pay us any favors.

So you know I think when you've had a trial by fire to come out

of that then anything else is really easy. This is no big

deal. But having travelled around the world I mean, you

could have a mindset of these difficulties problems everyone's

against you but actually having travelled around the world I

think that my mindset is the absolute opposite in that

everyone is genuinely good, not evil and unless proven

otherwise. Really. I'm going to treat everyone with respect and

and I love people I love traveling. I love exploring new

things. So I think per Ultimately, I'm grateful for all

of that traveling that I have done in my life that's helped to

keep my mind open. And I think professionally, I nowhere near

where I want to be, I'm still striving for a lot more. I mean,

I accept, there are more challenges and barriers for me

than, you know, others, for obvious reasons, but I'm still

campaigning to for parity and openness of other people, I

think you've got to give what you expect to receive from

people. And I love what I'm doing, I love when I go in, and

I'm the only in a room and I'm sitting around I'm training and

talking to, you know, which is where if we're talking about

sales are going to be mainly white men. And you know, one or

two might be hostile to me also, but by the end of the session,

you know, we're best friends, you know, and because if I can

transfer some knowledge, some experience, and often it's down

to certain words without, and that enables another salesperson

to do really well enables another person to get on board

with the language of their customers to really succeed in

their work means they succeed in their life for their families,

if I can help somebody do that, if I can help a business grow by

an additional 50%, by giving them knowledge of how to become

customer centric, or how to get your customers have a seat at

your table, how to use their information to create and

innovate products and services that the customers are going to

buy, not only now but into the future, how I can future proof

organizing. If I can do that, then oh my gosh, my you know,

I'm happy, you know, and so the end of the day, because that's

real legacy that's really making a difference not only to

individuals, but businesses, but to their customers as well,

which is I love.

Wow, that is awesome. And I love how your

personal experiences have really translated the way that you work

the way that you see the world and even has translated into you

professionally, right? Like, you're like, hey, I kind of had

to develop a thick skin when I was younger. And because of

that, that's what allows me to go be the only to show up in

these rooms and really, really help those people who are like,

Who are you and they're your raving fans at the end. I love

that when you walk in the room. And they're like, Who is this

another sales trainer? I don't want to hear the same stuff,

blah, blah, blah. And then at the end, it's like, man, you

really transformed the way that I'm thinking you've really

challenged me.

Yeah. And you know, I don't classify myself as

a sales training because I do talk about sales training

doesn't want Oh, yeah.

That's a whole nother thing. So I say it all

the time. Sales Training doesn't work.

It doesn't work. Absolutely. But you know, like

really getting sellers to think more like their buyers.

Absolutely. Yes.

Awesome. Well, Janet, this has been an amazing,

amazing conversation. What is the one best way people can get

in touch with you?

LinkedIn, Janice B. Gordon, don't forget my B.

Janice B. Gordon. If you put that in Google LinkedIn, your

arm on page 123 You're gonna find me

awesome. Janice B. Gordon, she shows up and has

valuable content that you should definitely consume on LinkedIn.

So thank you again, Janice. This has been an amazing

conversation. I feel like I am all deep into this world of

customer experience and being very solution focused. Thank you

so much for your time, your talent and your expertise today.

It's been a pleasure. Wesleyne. Thank you so

much for inviting me on your wonderful podcast and keep doing

the great work.

Thank you so much. And that was another

episode of the transform your sales podcast and remember and

all that you do, think about how science and sales work together

to really transform your sales. Until next time. Thank you for

joining us today on the snack sized sales podcast. If you

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