In this actionable episode, Devin Sizemore, Owner of Devin Sizemore Consulting, shares a system for building a predictable referral strategy. If you struggle with inconsistent client leads, you won’t want to miss it.

You will discover:

- Why referrals outperform other business development strategies

- How to change your ask to unlock network potential

- What many-to-many relationships do for sustainable growth

This episode is ideal for for Founders, Owners, and CEOs in stages 2,3 of The Founder's Evolution. Not sure which stage you're in? Find out for free in less than 10 minutes at https://www.scalearchitects.com/founders/quiz

Devin Sizemore pursues meaningful personal and professional experiences with passion. He has spent his career building and growing businesses that align with his values. Devin launched his first marketing agency right out of college and went on to create innovative consulting practices and a cat cafe, all driven by his commitment to "adding value" and making a positive impact. He believes in the power of connections and dedicates himself to helping others succeed by building relationships. He now focuses on fostering a community where one million connections create lasting, transformative change.

Want to learn more about Devin Sizemore's work at Devin Sizemore Consulting? Check out his website at connectionexpansion.com and get a copy of his book at https://www.amazon.com/Connection-Expansion-Massive-Success-Business/dp/196391158X/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0

Mentioned in this episode:

Take the Founder's Evolution Quiz Today

If you’re a Founder, business owner, or CEO who feels overworked by the business you lead and underwhelmed by the results, you’re doing it wrong. Succeeding as a founder all comes down to doing the right one or two things right now. Take the quiz today at foundersquiz.com, and in just ten questions, you can figure out what stage you are in, so you can focus on what is going to work and say goodbye to everything else.

Founder's Quiz

Hello, hello and welcome.

2

Welcome once again to this Start, Scale and Succeed podcast, the only podcast that grows

with you through all seven stages of your journey as a founder.

3

And I have been super excited about this episode.

4

Full disclosure, I actually prepared for it a week in advance because I thought it was

coming sooner.

5

So I've had a whole week of anticipation around it.

6

And it's a seemingly trivial issue that some of you may be like, oh yeah, of course.

7

But there's so much depth here and practicality, you're just gonna love it.

8

So what are we gonna talk about?

9

We're gonna talk about referrals and not just kind of any referral strategy, but a really

clever one that I'm sure you're gonna love.

10

So for those of you listening, you're in maybe stage two, startup entrepreneur, even in

stage three and you haven't built a strong.

11

recurring mechanism for bringing in new work, particularly for those of you who are in

service-based businesses uh or rely heavily on word of mouth advertising referrals, this

12

is going to be an absolute uh game changer for you because with us today is the one and

only Devin Sizemore who pursues meaningful personal and professional experiences with

13

passion.

14

He's spent his career building and growing businesses that align with his values.

15

Devin launched his first marketing agency right out of college and went on to create

innovative consulting practices and a cat cafe, all driven by his commitment to adding

16

value and making a positive impact.

17

He believes in the power of connection and dedicates himself to helping others succeed by

building relationships.

18

He now focuses on fostering a community with 1 million connections where they can create

lasting, transformative change.

19

And he's here with us today, Devin.

20

So excited to have you here.

21

In your book, you open up with one of my favorite intros, not so much because it's like

super like clever edge of your seat, but it is like nail on the head, the exact problem

22

that like just about everyone listening is facing.

23

And that is a dilemma that again, we just all face.

24

So what's the dilemma and what can we do about it?

25

Yeah, Scott, thanks so much for having me, man.

26

I appreciate you and uh glad you're able to get into the book.

27

So yeah, you're referencing the referral dilemma and it is something that all business

owners face.

28

uh When I go to a room and I ask, you know who in here loves word of mouth that everyone

raises their hand, right?

29

Would you want more of it?

30

Yeah, of course.

31

Everybody does.

32

Right.

33

This seems like something that's a no brainer.

34

But then when we dig into what's your system, what's your process?

35

Is it predictable?

36

The answers start to become no, maybe, it's all fluffy.

37

And that's really what we went out to solve seven years ago was how do we build a system

that's scalable, duplicatable, and predictable around this thing about referrals and

38

connections and thus solve the referral dilemma, right?

39

You want more, how do you get it?

40

That's exactly what the book talks about.

41

Yeah, I love it.

42

I love it.

43

It's so true.

44

I had a client once and they actually, they said this about their hiring process, but it

applies to most folks' referral strategies.

45

And I asked them like, what's your strategy for hiring?

46

And they said, post and hope.

47

We put up a job description and hope that somebody responds.

48

And in many ways it's like, you know, there's this like,

49

almost this, you build it, they will come mentality.

50

If I do a great job, everyone will talk about me.

51

And to some extent, there's some truth to that, but you can accelerate it quite a lot with

a good system.

52

uh So before we get into kind of the nuts and bolts of the system, I wanna take just a

brief moment on uh why in particular you chose to focus on referrals.

53

There's lots of business development strategies out there.

54

Why referrals?

55

Yeah, another good question.

56

When I had my marketing agency, found myself, like many of your listeners, maybe in a

crowded marketplace, highly competitive, very doggy dog, everyone just trying to compete,

57

very scarcity mindset.

58

And what I realized is that there had to be another way.

59

And so I started getting on stages and doing presentations.

60

So went after the visibility plus credibility equals profitability strategy, and that

worked.

61

But I also want to figure out how do we change the game with networking and network

building so we can control the process in a way that's comfortable and everybody wins.

62

And what I started to realize is that my key to success was adding value to others.

63

And when I did that and I followed up and I did it forever, I started to get it in return.

64

And my calendar was full and it continued to be full.

65

And I started to realize, wow, there's actually a system here that's predictable.

66

And the reason why I love connections is it's edified and endorsed introductions to you.

67

So whether you're exploring in prospects, strategic partnerships, joint ventures,

affiliate marketing, looking for new employees, doesn't matter what you're looking for.

68

If you have a dynamite network where you've added value, anything and everything you want

is inside that network when you need it.

69

And that to me is what we've spent, you know, a decade building and why I believe in

connection and referrals over almost if not any other strategy.

70

Yeah, I love that.

71

Now, we've a lot of folks listening have probably heard your network is your net worth and

there's a huge advantage to people who are launching out on, know, with an established

72

network.

73

But that's not the case for all founders.

74

Maybe it's that the timing wasn't driven by them, you know, it's like they were just kind

of thrust into it.

75

Or maybe like myself, you just did not recognize the need for a big network before

launching.

76

when I launched uh this second business.

77

And so they might be sitting there thinking, yeah, referrals would be great, but like, I

don't have a big network.

78

How big does your network have to be to be able to create a strong referral strategy and

leverage it?

79

Yeah, you only need one meeting with one person to start the process.

80

I usually end episodes here, but we'll go here.

81

So the power of one is something I like to let people hear.

82

You don't need a huge network.

83

You don't need a ton of people who know, like, and trust you.

84

You literally need to be able to book one meeting with one person.

85

And it doesn't even matter who the person is because when you follow the connection

meeting framework and then you follow up and add value after,

86

you start to create the process, right?

87

When you make the three intros and you nurture and love on that person, you're gonna get

one or two intros back.

88

That's gonna start the momentum.

89

Now, if you have 10, 20, 30, 40 people we can start the process with, great.

90

It'll create more momentum.

91

If you can go to a networking event, you can start it.

92

So you can start with no network, a little network, or those of you who are listening who

go, have a highly established network, but it's not doing much for me.

93

This system works for you too.

94

Yeah, that's gotta be great news to just about everyone listening.

95

So let's roll with that then.

96

Let's say we have one connection and we've gotta get it right, know, and just making a

little fun at it.

97

But we wanna start rolling this out.

98

What's the first step in, and I'll let you answer this one of two ways, either what's the

first step in setting up the process so that we can do this right over time, or what is

99

the first step of the process and how do we leverage the power of one?

100

Yeah, so the first thing you have to do is change your ask.

101

And we have to start here because this is what unlocks the potential in your network and

with the connections you're going to get.

102

And so what I mean by that is when I ask people, hey Scott, who do you want to meet?

103

Typically the response is your ideal client profile.

104

That's where most people default to.

105

That's where marketing and sales lives.

106

Great.

107

Makes total sense.

108

The issue is if I tell you, Scott, this is who I want to know, and I give you my ideal

client profile, you now have to go through your whole network, find those exact people.

109

figure out if they're ready for what I offer, make an introduction where they're gonna be

sold.

110

There's so many hurdles there.

111

There's so much friction in what I just said.

112

So if we change the ask, what we do, and this is what's explained in the connection

expansion exercise, we take your ideal client, we expand it to the vendors where they seek

113

education and it's six other buckets, and it allows us to change our ask.

114

So you could say, hey, Devin, who do you wanna connect with?

115

I say, mastermind hosts are brilliant.

116

I love connecting with mastermind hosts because we can mutually add value to each other's

worlds.

117

We can open doors for each other.

118

can collaborate.

119

When I give you that ask, instantly you can go to any mastermind host or community host or

event host in your network and go, hell yeah, I'll connect, Evan, no big deal.

120

Because there's no tension of being sold, there's all opportunity for partnership.

121

By changing our ask, it unlocks the follow-up process when we meet the one person, because

then when they say, who do you want to know?

122

We can give them an ask that's easier for them to fulfill on.

123

Plus, when we follow up to make connections, we're going to use the same process.

124

to make sure that we're making connections for other people.

125

So that's step one is you have to shift your ask and shift how you're growing your

network.

126

Right.

127

That actually brings me, one of the things that stood out to me uh in the book was this

idea that uh a strong referral system is a many to many relationship builder.

128

And I think that's not how a lot of folks think about it.

129

They think of referrals as one to many, like how can I get to meet more people?

130

So what's the difference between those two approaches and why does it matter?

131

Yeah, so one to one, if we start there, right, is like a client referring you to someone

or you finding one prospect.

132

It's just you and a person.

133

One to many tends to move into the referral partner relationship as most people consider

it, right?

134

I find a referral partner who can refer me to a handful of clients, right?

135

Great, we all like those.

136

Where I do workshops and where people have their kind of light bulb moment is when then we

go to mini to mini.

137

And so the idea this would be, let's say a business CPA is a great referral partner for

you.

138

We then go back through the connection expansion exercise and we look for where do

business CPAs gather?

139

Where do they seek education?

140

Where do they spend money?

141

Who has influence over them?

142

Who do they trust?

143

And who's a connector that has a lot of business CPAs?

144

If we or you could find yourself in a room.

145

where you are edified, you're the authority, and you're in front of a room full of

referral partners, that's a mini strategy.

146

Because now by being in that room, you're creating a room full of advocates for you and

your business that you can nurture, which then have access to dozens or hundreds or

147

thousands of clients, right?

148

That's the mini mini strategy.

149

So many people stop with the referral part.

150

We go a level deeper because if we find one of those, it unlocks the future for most

people's business.

151

Yeah, yeah, I love that.

152

So.

153

um

154

We've opened the door, we've had the conversation.

155

uh What are some of the things that we tend to get wrong uh when walking into, let's say

we've got the right ask, but what are some of the things we still tend to get wrong when

156

we go into the conversation itself?

157

Yeah, it usually starts with the networking, the follow-up, and the meeting.

158

There's language that goes sideways in all of those moments.

159

And it goes sideways when you start selling.

160

And so I like to call this commission breath, right?

161

When you show up at a networking event just trying to close people, or you follow up from

a networking event and your email is very salesy or benefit feature focused, or you show

162

up to a connection meeting where you're supposed to just meeting and build relationships,

and instead you start selling or positioning awkwardly.

163

All of those things are going to sabotage your ability to build a long-term lasting

relationship and uncover all the other potential that you don't know about the person

164

you're meeting.

165

And so I like to share the one follow-up script because I think it highlights this.

166

So, you when I follow up from a networking event, the script is, Scott, it was great

seeing you at the Chamber event yesterday.

167

I enjoyed learning about you and your business.

168

Love to schedule a time to learn more about you and your business so I can make

connections for you.

169

Here's link to my calendar.

170

look forward to connecting with you.

171

Nothing in my follow-up messaging has to do with what I sell, who I am, or why I'm great.

172

It has to do with the other person and the value you're bringing.

173

That's the key.

174

But so many people go wrong because they default to trying to sell something or position

or having their ask too early in the process.

175

Don't do that.

176

Focus on the other person and watch the magic happen.

177

Yeah.

178

So one of the things that happens, especially early in the process, especially if we just

have our one connection and we've got to get a lot out of it, there can be a pressure,

179

right?

180

It's like, I got to get the next deal to drop.

181

And so we can feel this enormous amount of pressure to say like, hey, this has to have a

return on investment.

182

I got to get something out of this.

183

I got to land the next deal.

184

How do you resist that temptation uh when you're engaging in these connection

conversations?

185

Yeah, momentum and volume always win.

186

And so when we look at sales, right, so often we approach it with the scarcity mindset

that every meeting, everything has to close a deal because there's not abundance.

187

We have so many meetings and so much pipeline and so do all my clients.

188

I don't care if it turns into it because I know what will come of it is better referrals,

more connections, more strategic partnerships, more opportunity.

189

And again, if you go in...

190

only looking for the sale.

191

What happens is you go on with your blinders on, right?

192

You start making assumptions and the saying about assumptions is you make an ass out of

you and me, right?

193

So when I go into a meeting assuming, I miss all the opportunity.

194

I don't know what your spouse does, what your family does, what your brother, sister,

cousin, uncle does.

195

I don't know what your friends do, what your past businesses, what your future goals are.

196

I know nothing about you.

197

And if I'm only focused on qualifying you to buy something, I miss all the other

opportunity where you could say, Hey, Devin, you know what?

198

I'm not a client.

199

But you know what my best friend does host an amazing mastermind.

200

They're looking for a speaker at their next retreat.

201

I'd love to connect you.

202

Great.

203

I'm so glad I had an open conversation where instead of just trying to chase you down this

road where you were never going to spend money, you went, you know what?

204

can help you.

205

Here's how.

206

And so, yes, I get it.

207

You have to close deals.

208

What you'll find is when you position better and you build meaningful relationships,

people will raise their hand and ask to buy.

209

You don't even have to sell.

210

um But it is definitely a trust the process moment and message where you need to book the

meetings, you need to add the value, you need to make the connections, and you need to let

211

momentum kick in.

212

When momentum kicks in, I promise doors will open, you can't fathom.

213

Yeah, I love that.

214

There's another element to this that I see in a lot of uh folks in this kind of

entrepreneur mode.

215

And there's this temptation to, I think it's because of a pursuit of like leverage and

like the feeling of momentum to try and do it like many to many in terms of how we

216

communicate across the board.

217

And so we sit behind a computer and we type up emails and we do Facebook posts and we do

all this other stuff.

218

But I would

219

I think at this point, I would say that robs us of our biggest advantage, which is us in

person, in the flesh, if you will, and puts us into that sea you talked about earlier of

220

everyone saying everything and it's just noise.

221

So in your book, it seems like we're very aligned around this, is the need for real

conversations, right?

222

So why is it not enough to do all this through emails or better yet, what does this look

like in the Zoom era?

223

Yeah, so the system works really good virtually and in person.

224

So that's good to qualify for people.

225

I have a client real time, we did training on this today where there's 22, 23 connections

going to this client.

226

And they looked at their calendar and went, man, that's a lot of 30 minute meetings to

qualify them for my offerings or decide what's next.

227

Can we just push them all to a webinar?

228

I said, sure, we could, but you're going to get a much smaller close rate and you miss all

of the additional opportunity that we just got done discussing, right?

229

Because in a 30 minute one-to-one meeting where I talk about what are you doing and who

are you targeting?

230

How did you get here?

231

Where are you going?

232

What's in the way and how can I help you?

233

That gives me information to really figure out, can we collaborate?

234

Can I open doors for you?

235

Can you open doors for me?

236

Do you need to buy my product or service?

237

Do I need your product?

238

There's so much more that we can discover.

239

And so the really big key to relationship building is you need to get into meetings.

240

And that's why everything around the system

241

creates language that makes it easy for people to meet with you.

242

Since we've been on, which is not long, I've already seen two notifications for meetings

booked, and that's sending a templated email follow-up that says, look forward to meeting

243

with you.

244

So you don't have to do anything crazy for the process to work.

245

So one of the places that I've seen this fall flat is we kind of start off with a bang,

reach out to as many people as I possibly can, and then we end up either distracted by

246

some shiny object or just bored with reaching out.

247

And so if we're gonna make this sustainable and referable, it can't be a one-time thing.

248

What has to happen to really be able to sustain this and the results from it over time?

249

Yeah, so the system we use touches people forever, right?

250

And so our nurture process, every six weeks for the rest of your life, you're gonna get an

email, right?

251

And the email is gonna say, hey Scott, I hope you're doing well and having a great day.

252

It's been a while since we last connected.

253

What's new and exciting in your world?

254

Any new challenges?

255

What connections can I make for you?

256

I look forward to hearing back from you.

257

If I don't wanna take a meeting, that's what it would say.

258

Sometimes I'll add in a sentence that says, hey, it's been a while, let's catch up.

259

Here's a link to my calendar.

260

We're gonna nurture forever.

261

And so everything we do,

262

It works best if you use it exactly as prescribed and exactly how it's presented.

263

We use the exact templates that we share.

264

We don't adjust them.

265

There's no magic sauce.

266

The magic comes from volume and time.

267

And that's where if you compound it today, it will pan out, right?

268

And so three weeks ago, we had 54 inbound connections come in.

269

I don't know about you guys, but if I had 54 people I could meet with,

270

you will find opportunity in there, right?

271

You're gonna find clients, you're gonna find partnerships, you're gonna find events.

272

How many connections are you getting a week is the question.

273

If you're not happy with the answer, start the process and then nurture people forever

because you don't wanna build a big database, which people have huge CRM, lots and

274

thousands of people in it that's doing nothing for you, right?

275

I want a database that's producing ongoing connections, producing referrals.

276

producing opportunities, even if people in there are trying to sell me something, at least

they're communicating with me.

277

And we can have conversation, pull them back into a meeting and reset.

278

So you got to play the long game.

279

You have to task manage appropriately.

280

And when you start playing the long game, that's where you start to realize you can level

up in big, big ways.

281

Yeah, yeah, that's so true.

282

Devon, there's a question that I like to ask all my guests.

283

I'm interested to see what you have to say.

284

And it is this, what would you say is the biggest secret that you wish wasn't a secret at

all?

285

What's that one thing you wish everybody watching or listening today knew?

286

Yeah, I'm going to just go to a core principle.

287

There's two of them, so I'm going to cheat.

288

I put a slide up, and I've always had this slide.

289

It's a cup of coffee and a book.

290

The cup of coffee is meet everyone.

291

The book is don't judge anyone.

292

You have to be open to just meeting everybody.

293

There's value in every relationship, and I need you to buy into that because my biggest

deals, best friendships, my inner circle have all been developed from really unique and

294

crazy places.

295

Don't judge anyone.

296

Meet every.

297

Yeah, so true, so true.

298

Devin, ah there's some folks listening that love help getting the referral strategy off

the ground.

299

They want a consistent flow.

300

They'd love to hear more about the work that you do.

301

Where can they find out more?

302

For sure, so can grab a copy of the Connection Expansion book on Amazon in all formats.

303

There's also an audio book if you'd like to listen to me talk about it for an hour and 54

minutes.

304

You can also go to connectionexpansion.com.

305

You can learn about our Connection group, more about our system.

306

There's a ton of free education, more templates, and a whole lot of more information in

there.

307

Those are great places to start.

308

Otherwise, just Google me and I'm sure you can find.

309

Fantastic, fantastic.

310

Well, thanks for being here.

311

It was a privilege and having you on the show.

312

Loved this episode, loved the book, highly, highly recommend it.

313

And for those of you watching and listening, you know your time and attention mean the

world to us.

314

I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I did and I cannot wait to see

you next time.

315

Take care.