While only about 3% of kids who play baseball will make it to high school, we’re here to remind you that playing for fun is just as important as chasing the next level. This week, we’ll explore the real numbers behind youth baseball participation and why the vast majority of kids will eventually prioritize enjoyment over pressure. Select and travel teams can be intense environments and, many times, Rec leagues are where the heart of the game really lies. So grab your glove, kick back, and let’s chat about how we can all foster a love for the game while keeping it real—and fun!

Podcast Partner Bios

Ethan Dungan - Owner of Glovehound Baseball Glove Repair Shop. Ethan played for several teams during his career including Midland and Fairfield High School. He now operates Glovehound from his shop in Fairfield, OH.

Rick Finley - Founder of MD&I Academy Baseball Training Facility in Fairfield, OH. Rick has successfully coached and trained hundreds of players at the Select, Travel, and College levels in both baseball and softball.

George Foster - Major League Player with the Giants, Reds, & Mets. NL MVP 1977, 5-Time All-Star, Silver Slugger and member of the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame. Founder of George Foster Baseball where he offers private baseball instruction.

Timestamps:

• 00:25 - Introduction to Episode 10
• 00:40 - The Journey to Elite Baseball
• 07:05 - The Reality of College Baseball Scholarships
• 13:41 - The Transition from Recreational to Competitive Baseball
• 24:22 - The Reality of College Baseball Costs
• 26:34 - The Impact of COVID on Baseball Aspirations
• 41:43 - Navigating the Transition from Youth to High School Baseball
• 49:11 - The Shift from League to Select Baseball
• 55:06 - Encouraging Youth Sports Participation
• 01:02:01 - The Importance of Community in Youth Sports
• 01:09:10 - The Role of Patience in Youth Sports Coaching
• 01:18:46 - Understanding the Balance Between Happiness and Joy in Parenting
• 01:27:11 - The Case for Recreational Baseball

Key Takeaways:

• The majority of kids who start playing baseball will ultimately decide to play for fun rather than pursue a career, with statistics showing over 99% make this choice by college.
• It's crucial for parents to understand the financial implications of select baseball and consider the realistic chances of their children making it to higher levels of play.
• Rec baseball provides an essential foundation for youth, allowing kids to learn life skills and enjoy the game without the pressure of elite competition.
• Investing in quality coaching and player development at the rec level can create a supportive environment that encourages kids to continue playing for the love of the game.
• Parents often impose their dreams on their children, pushing them towards select teams instead of allowing them to enjoy playing recreationally, which can lead to burnout.
• The podcast emphasizes the importance of community support for rec leagues, highlighting that strong local ties can enhance youth sports experiences and foster a love for the game.

Links:

• glovehound.com
• mdaiacademy.com
• georgefosterbaseball.com
• twocreativedigital.com

Teaser:

Next week we talk about we offer the Parent's Guide to Advanced Baseball for those player who decide to work toward playing in High School, College, and maybe even beyond.

Companies mentioned:

• Glovehound
• MDI Baseball Academy
• George Foster Baseball

Welcome to the Complete Game Podcast where we're all about baseball with Ethan Dungan, owner of Glovehound Baseball glove repair shop. Rick Finley, founder of Mdni Baseball Academy and the creator of George Foster Baseball, the MVP himself, Reds hall of Famer George Foster.

I'm your host, Greg Dungan. Now let's talk baseball. All right, fellas, welcome to episode 10.

10. Oh, we're moving on down the road.

10 episodes. Did you ever think we'd make it to 10?

No, but with you at the moderator. Oh, we're doing a great job.

All right, well, today we're going to be making the case for rec ball, recreational baseball, and not Rick ball.

Rick Ball.

Rick ball.

Rick ball.

The average human couldn't survive Rick Ball. Too intense.

Yeah, it would be, but we're gonn. But fun.

We're going to take a look at making the case for rec ball. So I'm going to start out by sort of painting what I call a basis of reality. Okay.

Every player from the time they start five, six years old, first, you know, you get your T ball and your coach pitch and all that, all the way up until they finish playing. Somewhere along the line, in my case, it was early. He then made it to high school. You made it beyond that. George played in the pros.

Majors. Not just the pros.

Major. That's right. Technically, yeah, Technically, minors are pros. You're right.

So, so somewhere along the line, you make the decision that, okay, I'm, I'm either just going to play for fun or I'm going to be part of the team, part of the sport, not as a player, whatever. But you, you make that time. You call it, you say, okay, my time striving for the next level of playing is, is over. I'm going to focus on.

So like that school year, okay, in those years, 16,500,000 people would play baseball in the United states. Okay? So 16 and a half million players in the United States now going on to High School. 473,000 of them would go on to high school. That's 3%.

That's a drastic drop.

3%. So if you're, if you played in high school, you're already in the top 3% of baseball players. Okay? So onto college from 473, 000 goes down to 38, 849.

Whoa.

Okay. That means that the number of people who played in college versus the number of people who played overall is 0.2%.

We are now under 1% when we get to college. So if you played baseball in college, you are.

Yeah.

You are more than 99 of everybody else.

Now, does that consideration the levels, any level of college baseball, is that correct?

Yes, that's it. Okay. Any level of college baseball. Then we're going to break that down. Just.

Okay.

All right, so you're already in the. The less than 1 percenters. Okay, so then let's say you go on to play in the minor leagues.

In the minor leagues, there were 4, 000 people who played in the minor leagues that year. Wow. 4,000. So if you go back to the original 16 million 500. Okay. Of those 16 million 500, it's 0.022%.

While if people look at. If that's a pay cut, that's a drastic amount.

Yeah.

So what. So you got, you got to. 1, 10 of the people who played in college would play in the minors.

And of course, some people who play in the minors didn't play in college. And somebody. There's, there's lots of different, different scenarios there, but we're just kind of. For the sake of having some numbers.

Okay, so then that year there were 615 players drafted.

Whoa.

Okay, so out of that 4, 000 in the. In the minors, 615 were drafted. Okay. Then in the total, Major league baseball in 20, 23, 24. Okay, well, it would have been the 24 season, I guess.

That's elite.

That's who plays in the major leagues. Now let's go. Let's go a step further than that, George, because you're not done yet.

Okay, now let's go even further than that. To lead the entire league in any one category. Home runs, RBIs, stolen bases, whatever you are.08% of all the people in the majors.

That's exclusive.

Wow.

So then we look at so then you look at something.

Give me some respect, man.

So now we look at George's career. You got a guy who not only.

Not only made it through, through regular ball, through high school ball, through college ball, through minors, into the majors. He is the elite of the elite. And he was the National League mvp. He led the league in home runs more than once. RBI is more than once.

As 0.08% of all the guys playing in the major leagues. That's, that's absolutely elite, my friend.

Standouts stand out.

So kudos to you. That is so.

Thanks for talking about me.

Yeah, that is quite the. Yeah, that is quite the. The career. Now then when you start adding like World Series and things like that, I.

Mean, I need those numbers.

So like, you, you were part of world. Multiple World Series winning teams.

Yes.

But then you were even in the World Series more times than that because you were part of teams that went but didn't win that year.

Yeah, I'm tired from listening. I know. I did all that work.

So. Yeah, so that's, that's how, that's how, how tiny that population is. Now let's go and look at just college. So let's say you make it to college.

You're. You're in the. Within the top 1%. You're point 2% of all. Of all players, and you're going to college. Out of that, 38,849 players, okay.

12,120 of them will play Division 1. That's 31% of all college players will play Division 1. Okay. Now, in Division 1, the average baseball scholarship is $14,270 a year divided. Okay.

$14,270 per year. Okay. And so when you add that up for four years, it's $57,080. That sounds like a lot of money, doesn't it? Okay.

The average tuition to a D1 school is 41,000 per year.

Right.

Okay. This means that your average baseball scholarship covers 35% of the cost of your college.

So you could go to college, play baseball four years on a scholarship.

It's still.

And graduate, and you would only owe $106,920 only.

Yeah.

So you are in debt.

But that's one of the reasons that some guys don't go to college. They don't have the monies or the.

Grades or go juco. Yeah. Which is cheaper, right?

Yeah. So then let's, let's take this one step further. Okay, so let's say you, you went to Division 1, you played like A guy like Mike Matheny.

Mike Matheny was drafted, but he chose to go to Michigan and play in college. Okay, so he went and played in college. Then he went on. Then he went on to the majors. Okay, so let's say you played in college, but.

And now you're going to go on to the minors. All right? So you're. You're even smaller. One tenth of the guys are going on. You're going on to the minors. Okay?

So out of rookie low a, high A, double A, triple A. So five levels of the minors, okay? The average salary, if you take and add up all those rates and you divide by five, the average salary is $27,870.

Okay, now $27,870 if you have to make that school loan payment. Let's go back and look at that school loan payment.

This is a good finance class.

When you multiply that out, you're making $6.43 an hour, man. Okay, yeah, $6 and 43 cents an hour. And out of that, $6.43 an hour, you have to put gas in your car, buy clothes, buy food and pay rent.

And the agent get his cut. And the tax man.

Yeah, we haven't even paid taxes, right? We haven't even talked about gross.

About.

Yeah, so.

So when you look at this and you go, okay, not only do you have to play hard, you have to stay healthy, get hurt, which there's that risk all the way up through all of this. You play all these rec years, you play high school, you get a big.

Bonus, signing bonus, and you're still.

You played college, you still haven't had Tommy John or some craziness. And then you go on and you play in the minors and you still have survived and you haven't gone completely broke, and you're still.

And then finally you make it. That's why the percentage is this big. It's very, very, very tiny. Okay? Now, I don't say that to stomp on anybody's.

Dream reality.

I don't do that at all. And you may be a person who is going, you know, major leagues are bust and I'm going to give it everything I got and if so, go for it, man. Go for it.

Give it everything you got. Just realize what the reality is that is.

That's great numbers. I like to say I need to write that down.

Just when I'm not only talking to the kids, but letting them know what, what they're confronted with and what they have to deal with. And that's going to make a decision right there, what you want to do. Have a kid that he could.

I said if you get drafted in baseball, okay, go baseball. If you don't get drafted, go go to college and play football.

Why?

Because you're going to get that Neil money. You're getting paid really to go to college.

Right.

But in baseball, like you said, the scout, there are very few scholarships and then the ones are there are very small compared to the to which you have to pay. So. But a lot of parents, a lot of kids don't understand that.

I think the parents, if anything, they need the education on that part because now all the pressure that is put on them on these kids moving up and moving up and that puts a lot of pressure and anxiety on the parents too, because they're the ones that's for the bill.

Yeah. If they knew the numbers that Greg had put out there.

Yes.

And now they have a budget, have an idea. But right now they're looking at, okay, it's money, but it's too general.

Yes.

What type of monies that are coming in.

Yeah. So like when you, when you get into the, the minors as a rookie, I put these five levels down here.

When you get into the Miners as a Rookie, you're making $9.50 an hour. When you get there, if you're in, in the top of triple A, you're only making like $13 and 50 cents an hour. Okay.

So crazy.

It's, it's playing for the love of the game.

It's not a lot of money. So.

Yeah.

So the point that I'm making here is that the vast majority of players will make that decision to play for fun or be a part of it some other way. They're going to play club ball, they're going to play softball. They're going to, they're going to do, they're going to do some other form.

They're going to be part of the game some other way. They will make that decision by High School, 97% of them will make that decision by high school. Okay.

Then by college, 99% of them, more than 99% of them will have made that decision.

99% of the 97.

Yeah. So 9.

The 3%. Yeah.

Yeah. So the very. The vast majority, by far, okay.

99 plus kids out of 100 will have made the decision to play for fun, just be a fan, whatever they're going to do before college.

So when we think in terms of recreational baseball programs and select and travel baseball programs, this is what I'm going to throw out to you here in a minute, which is the prevailing thought is I get to 10, 11, 12 years old.

If I'm going to continue to develop, I have to move from rec ball to select ball or travel or travel ball in order to play against stiffer competition beyond teams where coaches are actually going to try and develop my skills further, or I need to say, I'm just basically going to play organized sandlot and have a good time. Okay. Nothing wrong with either of those decisions.

No.

Okay.

But if you're going to make the decision, okay, so we're going to invest the money, we're going to try and develop more as a player, we're going to join the select league, we're going to travel, we're going to do all these tournaments, we're going to do all this stuff. Okay. What's the end goal? Is it to play in high school? Because. Okay, that's fine.

Right.

You're going to be part of the top 3%. If you make it there, that's good. Okay. And that depends also on your location.

If you're in a small town and the talent pool is small, then maybe more than 97, you know, maybe more than 3% make it to high school because there just aren't that many baseball players.

Or even geography, depending on how far north or south. Yeah.

I mean, it could.

There's.

And this is not, you know, this is not true across the board, everywhere. This is just basic stuff. Okay.

Averages.

Yeah. So. So you, you might want to. If you, if you're going to strive for that, that's fine.

Otherwise you could say, you know what, in another three years, I'm going to make this decision.

So it might make more sense to make this decision now and say, you know, I'm just going to keep doing this and play for fun and I'm going to concentrate on what it is I want to do when I grow up or what kind of job I want to have, what kind of career I Want to go after a different hobby or whatever. It's okay for baseball to be something you do for fun. That's the thing I want to get across. It's okay.

You are not a lesser player or a lesser person because you decided at 12 years old that I really like baseball, but I don't want to devote my whole life to it. So I'm going to just play for fun and then I'm going to do, you know, lots of other things.

But they said that reality check.

But it's going to help with the parents making the decision because that, that's a lot of money they're investing with these select team or travel team.

So now looking at the kids being able to go say to, to Rick Academy and get evaluated, I mean, and that's important because now you're looking at putting monies into a commodity. Your, your, your son or your daughter. Okay, is it, is it worth it? I mean, are you going to get the return of. On your investment in your investment?

Yeah.

So because you're looking at the monies you're putting in now, will you get it back? And now you're going looking at high school, looking at college. There's still expenses that are involved.

So like I say, are we going to get your return on in the investment? So the parents got to look at that.

Well, the other thing too is ask yourself. Another way to look at that is ask yourself what you're buying. So if you say, okay, I'm, you're.

I'm going to pay an average of 500 to $750 a year for my kid to play select ball. Sometimes more than that. If the, if it's a prestigious.

That's.

Yeah, that's one, maybe 1/4.

Yeah.

Yes.

Because my team, I try to have it as low as possible. It's around $300. And I knew other teams were charging at least $3,000. And like where's the money going?

Right?

So I mean the, the, the, the. It's all over the board.

But if, if you're, you're going to invest the time to invest for the, to go to the, the tryout, you're going to pay the team fees.

You're also going to use a private teacher because you know at that level you need to use a private teacher in order to continue the development and fill. Team can't be your development because the team can't be the complete development of every player.

Even if the, even if the coach is very, very good or even if the parent has a lot of Experience. You're going to want a private teacher. So you got your plan. You're paying to play on, on the team. You're paying a private teacher.

You're, you're putting a lot of time, Your time is very important. You're putting a lot of time in this. Your child's putting a lot of time in this.

They're, they're doing those late night homeworks and there's all that so they can go to practice and do all this stuff. Okay, Everybody's making this, the, the, the, the sacrifice for this, for what's the goal?

When, when Ethan went through this, I said, what's the goal? He said, I want to play in high school. So here's what I did. You don't know that I did this, but here's what I did. I sat back truth.

And I said, set you free.

I sat back and I added the numbers up and I said, okay, if we pay this much to play select ball every year, and we pay this much for private lessons and we play this much, if I could right now, today, buy him a spot on the high school team, would I pay this amount of money to do it? And I said, yes, I would.

Okay, if I could buy right now, put down what the next three years is going to cost me, if I could put that down right now and know that he was going to have a spot on the high school team, would I do it? Sure. I would do that for him.

How many parents did, did what you did?

Very few.

And the other part is the fact of I wouldn't tolerate the money that I say having my kid to be on select team, I wouldn't tolerate him sitting on the bench.

Right.

Yeah, I, because he has to go to another team. I mean, I wouldn't tolerate paying that money for him to sit on the bench.

It's talking to the coach that in a sense, guaranteed that he's going to play.

And I would make it so that with these teams that the coach has to play these players, I mean, like in the Little League World Series, everybody has to play. Maybe not as much, but they have to play. And that's the one thing that I really focus on when I had a team is making sure everybody played.

I agree.

They're not, they're not there to sit and spectate. They're there to play.

Even at the pro level. I mean, Sparky didn't win games with just nine guys.

Yeah.

You know, he won a game with a whole team full of guys.

Right.

And now all those, all those guys didn't play all the time but they did play something.

They had a role.

Yeah. Everybody had a job and you won the team with all of those guys.

And but when you start to specialize, you know the college and made pro ball and major league ball, then, then you start to get have role players.

Right.

And somewhat now been a PO but still seeing what that kid can do.

Yeah.

And but with my team it's, it's not call select but I, I try to play against better competition to see what they could measure what they could do and so a kid, I knew that he didn't swing the bat well but he had a good arm. So and but still I worked with him on the hitting aspect of it so that he could develop and grow.

Yeah. That's what I did with the mdni. So I left.

I can't say that I left travel baseball but I just came down a little bit and took certain rec players again and started a developmental program.

But we did play at a higher level probably I would say between gold and a lower tier travel baseball and just challenging them because now from between 13 and 15 this is where kids are on a bigger field and they need to, to understand how the game is played now.

And so myself coaching at this higher level and coming down actually made it fun for me to and kind of encourage the kids to have fun but continue learning the game too. So you've got that balance there but.

That element you want to have all the time but as far as having fun and that opens the door for you can relax and learn but you don't feel when you say have fun, you don't feel that putting undue pressure on yourself.

And that's probably why for those two years I didn't have no turnover. Kids got better when they got to high school again. That's the, that's the, the process.

If they wanted to play in high school, this is what it's going to take to play at high school.

And we're and for me again coaching at the travel baseball level, I wasn't afraid to play against those top teams because we're not chasing rings and.

Right.

And all of that type stuff. So it's I think selling appearance on the process and the kids on the process.

Right.

You know, but you put it give them numbers like gray.

Those numbers are awesome.

It makes, it makes sense. It helped them make a decision.

Okay, now you're here and so you want to put the money into being on the select team but your kid's not playing compared to take those monies and go into a private instructor to help them to, in a sense, leapfrog to get there.

Yeah, well, that's. And that's the thing. So, like, I. I knew that if Ethan was going to play in high school, that not only was he.

We were going to need a team experience, but he was going to need a private instructor. And that's where I took him to Rick. And so Rick was the best money I ever spent when it came to that, because.

Thank you.

It was. It was a continued intensive development that filled in the gaps and made sure that he was ready to go to play high school.

Well, because if I had relied on the instruction given by. By the coaches of any given team I was on, I would never.

I don't think I would have ever made it to high school because I was on a different team every year. Which, which was. Which was challenging, but the instruction was just all over the place in terms of quality.

And like we've talked about before, everybody has their own philosophy. So to have one constant, you know, while this was all changing, that made a huge difference.

So, I mean, you can even look at this. So if you take the thought process that I used to dec.

Not we were going to go forward toward him playing high school, I say, you know, if I could pay this amount right now and guarantee played in high school, would I do it? Yes, I would. Okay, fine. So let me ask you this. When.

When he was looking at playing in college and Ethan could have played in college, there's no doubt in my mind.

Yeah.

When he was like, dad, I just don't know if I want to try and go play in college. You know, some of my buddies are going and they're going to play, and I think maybe I would. And I said, let me ask you this. If you could.

If I could tell you that you could go to college and you would be on a team for four years and you would play every now and then because he was a pitcher mostly at that point in time, you'd be on a pitching staff, so you'd play every now and again. And, and you could do that for four years and it would only cost you $107,000. Would you do it? And he said, no.

I said, oh, what's wrong with you, dad?

There's your answer.

Yeah, well, I'll take you into the kind of. What I was thinking at the time is like, I. I knew how much college costs, and I just wasn't sold on the idea of it.

And I remember I was in the Kitchen talking to one of my buddy's dads. And he was like, oh, yeah, you know, he's gonna. We're going on a couple visits. He's gonna try to do this. And I was like, man, I just.

I just don't know.

He's like, yeah, but, you know, you only get to play baseball for so much of your life, and, you know, you get to say that you played college baseball. What's that worth? And I didn't say anything, but in my head, I'm like, just not worth that much to me, man. Yeah. And he went on, and. And he's.

He's played college baseball, and that's awesome. He's got that experience. I was just like, man, I don't know. So then it became, you know, I understood how much work goes into it, and I'm.

I don't have any problem working hard if the reward is something that I want and makes sense. The more I thought about it, I was like, it's not that I don't want to work hard. It's. I don't want that reward.

I don't want that reward of that experience of getting to play college baseball, you know, especially because it's so uncertain of how much you do or don't play. And I was like, I. I think I want to work hard for something else.

Well, let me put this to you. So you're talking about $107,000 of debt for 10 years. Okay? Now, $107,000. I did some. I did a little bit of math with this. Okay? $107,000. Now, you're.

You're a young man who's married. You've got one child. You got another one coming here in.

A few weeks, any minute.

And. And so you know the realities of. Of early life and paying for a mortgage and paying for cars and paying for.

Okay, $107,000 is a really nice, reliable vehicle. A hefty down payment on a house and a decent amount in savings.

Yeah, right.

It's a start in life, a good start, good salvations. You are a good start in the hole just to play college baseball.

So then. So. So what complicates this even more then is Covid, because that happened right before my junior season.

And so it got to the point in high school where, you know, we would be in some of these team meetings after a tough loss and the coach is giving us a dose of reality is like, you know, you guys aren't at the level you're at. You're not playing college baseball. I don't see the effort out. I don't see this. And I'm like, yeah, but I don't want to.

And then I was like, am I even in the right spot? And so that was kind of just a lot going on. And then, you know, Covid confusing everything. And then my 17U season, I took a PO role, and it was.

It felt pointless because it was hard because I hadn't. When Covid happened, I worked. I didn't. I didn't practice baseball because there was no organized practice, and I was.

I was more concerned with making money than practicing baseball, you know, And I. And there were kids that took it upon themselves to dedicate themselves and. And continue to work out, and that was awesome.

They were way ahead of me by that point. And so I took a PO role. I pitched every once in a while, and it just. It seems. Silly.

Waste of your time.

Yeah, it was. And. And it would have been better spent playing multiple positions and enjoying it. And then 18, you. You know, I.

I finished high school a semester early, and there's that opportunity to play, you know, your last. You know, your last year. And I didn't even play because I was like. I didn't.

I wasn't sure if there was an opportunity to play without going super hard for the college level. And I was like, I'm not there, so I must not fit in. And I probably could have found somewhere to play, and I would have enjoyed it.

So I wish I had done that. But. But. But talking about, you know, just the debt of it.

Yeah, right.

My wife and I graduated high school with no debt. We were very fortunate to not have car payments. We don't have any school payments, and, you know, we live very skinny, and we're very happy doing it.

We made a great decision.

And so it was hard at the time, and it's. It's. It was disappointing because it meant the end of my baseball career. But I. There's no doubt in my mind it.

Was the right decision or it was a trans. It was the transcendence of your baseball career, because then he went on you. You played softball a little bit, and you've done some other things.

It was. It was the hardest on your mother. Yeah, she loved going to baseball. She can't wait for Luke to play baseball so he can go back to baseball games.

That's cool.

Cool.

But let me offer you a little another qualifier, which is all of these numbers that I've given you only take into consideration players in the United States.

But you find that major league team owners, they're looking at the same thing.

So they're going to Latin America to get players that are ready, ready to play so they don't have to put a lot of investment in that player to develop. And you find that you look at teams now, you, it's like, does he speak Spanish? Does he speak English?

So most of the team, which is, I'm not talking against it, but they're Latin players because they're, they're developed and they don't have to put as much investment in that kid. So you don't find a lot of American kids playing on a major league level because they have to go through the minor leagues.

And, and a lot of minor league teams have been cut out.

Yes, they've been cut since.

So. But my, my taste of reality came my first year in pro ball.

I was in Medford, Oregon and so happened I ended up hitting well and had a good year that year. And then now I'm said, okay, I'm looking forward to next year. Then the coach said, you know, some of you guys won't be here next year.

And like, what are you talking about? I'm thinking that you're going to get. They're going to give you at least three years to show what you can do. And guys are. Their benefits were.

Okay, when is the game over so we can go out and party? So I love playing, I love being a part of baseball because I can go out and party. But in my case, this is what I want to do. I want to play baseball.

And I don't know what level I'm going to get to but like in Ethan's case, I'm going to work hard to get there. But once he said, some of you guys are not going to be here next year. And reality set in. So you gotta go out there and put up good numbers.

If not, you're gonna find your chef at home.

So you finished the season last year exhausted from all the travel and the tournaments, and you tossed your gear in a bag where it's been sitting all winter. Now you're ready for another year. But your favorite glove that fits just right is an error waiting to happen.

The leather is dry, the laces are brittle, and this year you're on a new team with new colors. And it sure would be cool if it matched well. Wouldn't it be great if you had a glove guy who could help you out with that? You do.

His name is Ethan and he owns Glovehound baseball glove repair shop in Fairfield, Ohio. Just contact him@glovehound.com and upload pictures of your glove.

He'll give you a call back to talk it over and then you can send it in for a repair. Relays, recondition, whatever you need. If you're in the area, you can even just stop by the shop. That way you don't have to bother with shipping.

And a lot of times he can even fix it while you wait. Rawlings, Wilson, Mizuno, All Star, Nakona, he's seen them all. And he's helped players at all levels, from beginners to pros.

Last year he worked on a glove that Jose Trevino used in the World Series. And he can help you, too.

You can find Glovehound on Google, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and on the web@glovehound.com you're only going to get busier. So reach out today and give your glove the love it deserves at Glovehound. That's very, that's a very good point, George.

And, and let me, let me take us a little further down the road here and say, give us a couple of scenarios. So there are some, some players, they get into a, they get onto a select team.

It's a great bunch of kids with a good coach and they hold together and they play with that team for a number of years and the team does really well. And then they play in high school and they have a great baseball experience. This is my son in law, okay?

My son in law had a great select baseball experience and he's a good, to this day, he's a very good baseball player. Okay. He was a really good youth baseball player. Had a great, a great experience. Those are few.

Okay, Let me tell you what happens more often than that. More often than that, you leave and you go be part of a select baseball team and you.

It's coached by some guy whose son is on the team because he took the team so that he could guarantee that his son would continue to play.

Right.

I was even one of these guys once, okay? So I didn't, I didn't go the direction I'm about to describe. But yes, I did coach some teams.

I coached fall ball to make sure that Ethan could keep playing in the fall and keep developing.

He was also studying with Rick at the time, and I was just trying to give him time on the field to practice the things that Rick was teaching him and, and kind of go that route.

But sometimes you get in the select team and the, the, the person's, the, the guy coaching it, his son plays, and sometimes his son plays the same team as. Plays the same position as your son, and your son is a better at that position than his son.

But your son is not going to play because his whole point of doing the team in the first place was to make sure his son plays. So I don't, I don't fault him that. But now you're on a team and you're three weeks in, a month in before you really figure it all out.

And now you're like, oh, so we're not going to play? Okay, well, now, okay, so then you jump to another team the next year and another team the next year.

We did this team after team after team, and we kept landing on these teams where this kept happening over and over and over again. So, you know, here's Ethan. He's developing, he's going to Rick.

He's getting better, he's getting some playing time, but he's, he's struggling to, to break through into this regular starting line kid, new kid. So then that's one scenario.

So then he gets to high school and thank God, if he hadn't had a private teacher, he would not have been ready to put up numbers enough to get on the high school team.

So, and that was even its own weird thing because I started, I tried out to be a catcher, became a PO and a dh, and then by the time my sophomore year comes around, I'm playing third base, but I just didn't play a field position for the previous season. So I was very unprepared to play the field my sophomore year.

Because your stick kept, kept you in the lineup.

So then there's, here's another, here's another scenario. Another scenario is you come up through Youth Baseball.

You're 11, you're 12 years old, you want to play in high school, but you're convinced that if you don't play for the right select or travel team, if you don't play for the right natural disaster or the right predatory animal, okay, you're going to. The coach will never look at you in high school and you'll never get a shot, right? So you don't have credentials.

I want to play on some Team with notoriety. And so you go to the tryout and they offer you a position as a PO or a backup or a dh.

And you go, I'll take it because at least I can say I played for XYZ baseball. And then they'll look at me, okay, fine. So then you play from 12, 13, 44 until you're about 15 years old.

You play for three years for this organization as a backup, as a PO, as a DH. You bounce around, you get on the field every now and again, whatever.

All the while, if not taking private lessons, your skills are actually degrading, right as you're, as you're going. And then it comes time to, to go to high school and they say, oh, he played for, you know, the XYZ disasters.

We'll get, we'll, we'll have him in here. And so they take a look at you, they say, all right, you got a shot.

But then you can't actually put the numbers up because your, your skills have degraded because you sold them out to be on a team with notoriety and now you can't make the high school team, which was your goal in the first place. Place.

Yeah, I've seen kids that, they want to go because it's prestigious. They're sitting on the bench and going to molar the high profile teams. But you're not playing.

No, but I, I can tell people, yeah, I play for molar, but you don't play. Go somewhere you can, where you can play and get some exposure.

So one scenario, I said, that kid may not have confidence that he can play, but he know he can be on the team even though he's sitting on the bench. So I just try, I see the talent, but I said, you got to work at it. You can't just, you got to develop it.

You know, everybody talk about potential, okay, after a certain period of time that if that potential hadn't shown itself, somebody else is going to come and take that position.

Now I'm going to comment on that. We kind of got away from rec, but, but what George is saying though, is true.

Now that all comes down to the type of high school program that you're playing on, because Moeller is almost like a minor league college team. So they're deep, their depth is serious. Mason and, and all these other top schools.

So really, and I've heard this from a lot of parents, their kids are playing jv. They playing, but they could have, they could actually play varsity, but they're so deep.

And so that's why they keep going to the state titles, winning the, the GCL and Stu. You know, I think going in, I think parents need to, to see the depth, go to, to the high school games and see it, talk to the coaches.

So when I first moved to Westchester, okay, I took Ricky about eighth grade to see what the high school team looked like so he can have a true understanding who he's competing with. So first thing I said, and you're going to claim that position. You don't take that job, man, and you know, and develop that competition.

But you got to see for yourself, right? And see, and not just varsity, but JV and freshman. But for him, he practiced with varsity as a freshman. So.

But also I think what George is saying too, and all of you guys, that if you're, if you're playing on certain teams and you go to the high school and you just sit in a bench and getting playing time, then that's, and I, the reality is that plan, select, record, whatever your plan, you know, you're going to get in a lineup, but once you get to high school now you got to earn that position. Now you got to go out and compete and earn that playing time.

And sometimes I think that parents and players, they kind of get confused because they get, the communication gets confused. Some, some sometimes also.

Well, and to your point, Rick, that's a. Excellent logic there. To your point, this is why we have a transfer portal now in college.

Because they go to the college and they sit there and they go, wait a minute, I'm not playing, I'm gonna go, I'll go to a smaller school or a lesser known school or a different school or school who's, whose person got hurt and I can take the job or whatever it is. And so where, I mean, will we do we eventually end up with transfer portals for high school? I mean, how does this, how does this work?

So, you know, the, the idea being that when do you make the decision to say I'm just going to play for fun? And when do you push through knowing that the numbers are what they are? Okay. Knowing that you're talking about investment plus private lessons plus.

Okay, so we've tried to lay out the, the reality here. So now my, my, where I'd like to take it is you've got a rec situation in our town. It's called Fairfield Youth Baseball Association.

And there's one different one in every town. Yes. So you've got a, you've got a, a youth baseball sort.

And then they get to 10, 11, 12 where they're starting to look at select and so what do you do? What do you do as, as a, as a rec organization? Do you create some select teams within your, within your rec organization?

That's a great idea.

We've seen that. That's what Fairfield Youth Baseball did. They create a few select teams that you can try out for.

Do you continue to have those recreational teams, guys that are just kind of playing for fun all the way up through like Babe Ruth and that kind of thing? Do you, do you put the energy into. To that and do you, where. What's your, what's your, your mindset is that.

Do we say that kids go in this direction, Kids who want to go to high school, where they go select and they go this direction and kids who don't, well, then they go over here and they play this.

Do we split them off at that age or do we have a situation where we say, okay, we're going to invest as a youth baseball organization to training our coaches from the very beginning so that even our coach pitch and our kid pitch coaches are, have received formal coaching training from people who really know what they're doing. And they, and we, we've got a, an accepted standard of content or contact conduct and a accepted standard of operation.

And then we try to do the second thing, which is we build a close relationship with the local high school program. For instance, can you help the high school program with their fundraisers?

Can you have whatever XYZ baseball night at the local baseball team where all your kids and your parents all show up and root for the high school team and you triple the amount of the population at the ballpark that night, you know, and everybody shows up for that? Do you hold clinics where you let the high school players be the first mentors to your younger kids?

Do you create that relationship so that when your rec players get to high school, number one, they've had quality coaching, so they have decent development. Number two, they already know the high school program, the high school program knows them.

So you've lessened the, the, the, the amount that the select team's reputation plays. It's not so much did they play for this team or that team or whatever. It's what can you do in the tryout?

And then you've actually given them the skills to go in and compete whether they played select or they didn't. So do you, do you do that? And I would like to see more rec programs do those three things.

But if the concern is there, all the things you said, all the above should be put into play. But if the concerns not just I like with the, with the red, you know, they have the rookie league and people invest money.

They're looking at numbers and not quality.

Yes.

So when I was involved, I forget how many years I remember they're looking at numbers and not quality, but I'm looking at players that can play.

And getting back to the rec league is the fact that having qualified coaches when you do look at select teams from the rec farm clubs or system and, but now the other kids see where they can go.

Right?

And so now they have, they have a goal then and so. But they have a goal and they have a decision. Okay. Now we're not just going to be called rec.

So they're going to have select guys that from rec to play on this certain team. But at the same time you got to have people who can develop them to grow that program.

Yes. I think also alluding to what George is saying, you need an independent person to do the evaluation or group. Yes. Because that has to get done.

I see a lot of, and I'm not going to name programs and stuff, but I see a lot of select teams that are really wreck. Okay, but they're paying select prices.

Right.

Okay. And, and I've seen they even came into my academy a good rec program that could beat these couple select programs. Okay.

And these guys know how to coach too. And the reason why from October to to now they've came into the academy to do training.

So we've done everything from strength training to speed to just the whole development program. So now. But they're a wreck team, you see what I'm saying? So that's where the build up starts.

And these guys are, they're, they're dads and stuff, but they're learning. And so me being an independent guy, George being independent with no our kids not involved.

But our, our passion and our experience that helps programs like that, you know.

Well, and I think so many of them jump to select because the perceived necessity of the competition. They think you have to. And the funny thing was when I, when I was playing these things change so often.

So it's, you know, everybody's experience is different.

But when I was playing we had the different levels in the, we were a part of the, the Southwest Ohio Baseball League and they had their, their national or their, it was bronze, silver, gold, national. But those, those were supposed to be an indicator of your talent level.

Right.

But yeah, even that got confusing.

Right.

And so you know, you don't know.

When I was, I was in six.

Yes.

Yes. That's when I seen the change too.

And I don't.

Yes.

I'm not, I'm not really looking to blame anybody. That's a hard thing to.

We can.

Yes, we can't.

But that doesn't. Just because no one's to blame doesn't change the reality.

And so, you know, we would be a gold team because national, I think was supposed to be mostly tournaments or something like that. And then we get beat by a bronze and. Or we're a silver team.

Yeah.

It was just weird like because what you're saying is it depends on the. What it really depends on is the coaching of that team.

And so I was very, very fortunate that from the time the guy who coached me and I had the same coach for both years of. Coach pitch. Great guy. Yeah, he was, I don't know that he was the. A baseball mastermind, but he was just a great dude and it really poured into us.

And then after that I would play for the same. When you're, you're older for one year and then younger the next year. So when I would come up and be younger, I played for the same guy every year.

And then when I was older I played for the same guy. And I was very fortunate that both of those coaches poured into us and really did a good job of conducting practice and rotating guys in and out.

They did a good job of coaching their teams. I got lucky because there were a lot of rec teams that didn't have that. And so that's exactly what you're saying.

So I, I think, you know, hindsight is 20 20, but I wish, I think maybe a way that we could have avoided some of that headache in select ball would be trying to seek out proven experience because what I ended up doing is playing for, I would say rec caliber coaches.

Right.

But we didn't get lucky that time, if that makes sense.

Yeah.

So yes, we. It because it. When they're dads, it tends to be a crapshoot. You know, some, some dads are. Were really into it, some weren't.

You know, some dads played up through high school, some didn't, some didn't. So it's, it's hard to tell. But when you're paying, when you're paying.

That select price, that's when you need to ask questions.

That's when you need to ask questions.

And evaluate the coach and thank you.

Exactly. Evaluate the coaches and try to Find out, well, what, what are your credentials?

Right?

And like I said, I, we did the best we could. When I was playing it, select was kind of new.

It was really, it wasn't the monster it is now, but it was getting there and we got, we got caught in the build up.

So, so let me kind of, kind of bring this back full circle.

So what we're looking at, if you're, if you're following all this along while you're listening, okay, so at one point in time there was, there was high school and then there was this Southwest Ohio Baseball League and that was still a league. You belong to a team, you played same teams more than once. You'd play a whole league schedule. It was kind of thing.

And what started happening was there was this sort of takeover of, of a, what we called select baseball. It was like it was some independent clubs who came in and said, nah, we're not going to do that. We want a higher level of caliber.

We want, we want the higher kids, we want the higher competition. We love it. And then we're going tournament only.

And I've made it clear in this podcast more than once, and I will before, I will again, but turn baseball is not meant to be played in only tournaments. And so the reason why we got there was because a league takes a fair amount of effort from a lot of people over a long period of time.

And a tournament takes a lot of effort from a fair amount of people over a very short period of time. And so tournaments actually give you a more intensive experience with less investment of money and time.

But it measures what you should be done in practice.

Right? Yeah, but so what? Because it's a short, intensive thing. It, it all, it doesn't involve practice.

And a lot of the other things that we've talked about, it involves that weekend and that's it. Right. You know, so think about this way.

If you're, you know, it's one thing to, when you, you get married and you're going to be married for the rest of your life and that's a long process of, of relationship that involves a lot of different caring for that relationship and doing things and whatever, but if you're just going to date somebody for a weekend, that can be a very intense experience and then you're off and you're doing something else. So, you know, we, we traded the long term relationship of league play to the short term fling of, of of tournaments.

Well, and the, the idea behind that is that it's, we've got the best of the best here this weekend and see how you measure up. And. But the problem is some tournaments do a better job of vetting the competition.

They do, they do. So they do.

Some do a really good job saying you're not quite ready to be in this tournament. A lot of them don't. And it's like, hey, you want to pay to be in it, by all means, here you go.

And then you end up, you know, the same teams just end up, you know.

So coming back to the case for rec ball, what, what we're trying to, what we're trying to encourage is for rec ball organizations to beef themselves up to the point where they make it easier for kids to make that, that career changing decision that I can relax and say, okay, I'm going to play for fun now because rec ball actually has a serious opportunity for me to do that. And I'm not going to go get on a team and find out that, you know, we're missing people half the time, right?

You know, we're playing with ghost men and we're, you know, whatever else because there's just nobody left to be on, on the upper levels.

So this is where the suggestions that we were making with the idea of, you know, develop a tight relationship with the high school program, train your coaches from early on, make them all get a short certified experience and then pay for that experience.

Your coach is going to volunteer to coach a team for a, for a season, pay for them to get some training and then if you have to do some fundraisers to cover the cost of it or whatever, right, do it. Do what you're going to do.

Raise the price of hot dogs, whatever it is, but figure out how to pay for those coaches to get that training so that you're providing as best, you know, the best rec league experience you can.

And then that makes it easier for those kids to say, all right, I don't necessarily feel like I have to go play select in order to keep playing ball, right? And at that point, now you have kids in those upper.

But you have a better choice.

Yes, you got a better choice, but.

You'Re running directly like, like a business. Say if you, if you go, you want to get a fast food business, you have to go train yourself, right? You're not just putting monies in.

So now with the, with the coaches, if they want to coach, okay, you got to qualify, you got to train to be a coach.

Not just come in, say, well, I'll think I'll coach, sure, but you got to train because there's a Certain standard, like you had said earlier, that we.

Want to have there and the other. So the other population of people here that we're talking to are parents.

Right.

So then, parents, if you're coming up on that point where you know, your child needs to make this decision one way or another, this, your child needs to say, okay, I'm going all in. I'm going to give it everything I can to get to high school.

And so then you take them to a private teacher and you say, all right, I need an honest recommendation. Does he have a shot to play in high school? Can we get him there?

What level?

And let that person. Yes, and let that, let that person give you an honest evaluation and then make your decision from there. There.

But if parents were to, according to these numbers I gave you at the very beginning, the vast majority of us should be okay, encouraging our children to make this decision earlier. Right?

Right.

Okay.

So if we're encouraging our children to play for fun at a younger age, then if we do now, now we're going back to the rec league and saying, okay, we're willing to stay here in the rec league. What do you have for us?

Yes.

And so if the rec league is putting in the work, training the coaches, building the program, trying to keep it all together for you, then seriously consider, all right, rec league's working hard to try and make sure there's an opportunity to play for fun. I really think you should give it a shot. I think you should play for fun and try and guide your child that way.

And then we've actually, we've actually changed the landscape now because the rec leagues have those upper teams.

Kids are choosing to play on those upper teams because parents and private teachers are saying, let's, let's prioritize these, these, these, these rec teams here. And that would lead us to the final population of people, which is private teachers, guys who do what you guys do.

And I'm telling you, the more I have spoken to different private teachers over the years, I have heard the same things that you guys are saying now, which is many of these kids should have made the decision to play for fun by now. Yeah, they're, they're spending money and they're not going to get what they're looking for.

They're not going to end up with the, with the reward that they're trying to, trying to get to.

And if we were more realistic, we would have rec leagues with 16, 17, 18 year old kids in them who are playing for fun, having a good time and enjoying baseball instead of having 16, 17, 18 year old kids frustrated with their, with their select experience and struggling. And now they're bitter and now they're, they're having a hard time enjoying the game that they.

Yeah, but they, they believe that they're better than what they, what they are. But.

And why do they do that though, George? Why do they believe that?

They're looking at their age and compared to the other kids. They feel they're at 16, they should be at the same level as the other kids are.

But they haven't gotten that training or haven't gotten that, that skill built. Building that skill at an early age. They're thinking that the age itself indicates that you have the skills. But. But it's not.

But back to the rec league. It's the fact that you got to be able to like say being able. The parents got to look at what, what budget are they going to look at?

It's not just throwing money at a program. So what are you getting out of it? We said that earlier. Return on investment.

So now that's going to help them to make a, a sound decision on where that kid's going to go. If you want to stay in baseball or get into football or basketball. Another sport.

Exactly.

And they also believe those things because the adults in their lives have told them that or the adults of their lives have not told them what they should have told them, which is it's time to decide to play for fun.

Yeah, exactly. Another thing too I want to add to remember coming up as, as kids you, you've the businesses that was on your shirt, man. Right, whatever, man.

So if you go back to develop that, they have more sponsorships too because you see how that, that kind of lines right, there you go. The community part of it, it kind of aligns. And so I remember growing up we had like Lowenthal's Drugstore brothers.

Three was a little place I played for security rugs. We had Sweeney Morgan roth insurance man, T.S. bulls. That was Tony Scott and what's Leon Durham.

Leon. Yeah, yeah.

Yes. They own that. So I remember all those teams coming up and it was community based. You know who the, the best players were, man.

And then eventually everybody moved on to Midland or a higher level of rec, which we played all around. And so those community base that'll keep your, your businesses wanting to invest back into your programs now because now they're.

What happens selling the program to invest back into the business. So if it's a say a grocery store, whatever the story is, so you're going to go there and patronize that.

Yes.

So that now he, they're, they're sponsoring your team. But now you know that that team is going to go to a La Rosa, go to, to a Jets pizza things and such. So it's a recycling.

Yes, it's recycle. And then the, then the program can sell them. Like, hey, we've having camps, we have in coaching clinics, we're having this and that.

So now it's like, wow, not only is my dollars going towards just a team, it's going through a whole program now. So now I can see my return on investment again.

Right? Well, and absolutely. And here's from a different perspective.

When Ethan and I have worked with, with companies who are struggling to hire people and they, we help them with their, their jobs that they, they run to hire people or we help them do a hiring campaign at their company. One of the things that I try and tell them is to create a, that is to, to do more with their social media.

And they look and they say well, what do we post? We run out of things to post on social media.

And I said, well, you have to create a, a culture of celebration where you're celebrating everybody's, you know, little, the things that they did when they, when they completed a training and when they leveled up and when they whatever. And they say okay, great, but then we run out of things.

I said, then sponsor some youth baseball teams, football teams, soccer teams, basketball teams. Sponsor youth sports because then you've got something every time that team plays, you've got stats to put up there. You put it up.

Congratulations to the procedure, decision, drill guys who went out and they, they won and they did. They had this many and whatever and, and, and get the whole company supporting these kids involved and talk about it.

You know, get, get if your team sponsors them and it says they're, they're the, you know, the XYZ company Bears. Okay. Then make identical shirts for all your employees to wear if you want to.

Shirts are cheap, but if people are supporting the team and that kid goes to Walmart with his mom and dad and he sees a guy wearing a shirt that looks like his jersey and he's like, hey, I don't even know that guy, but he's supporting my team. That kind of stuff brings a community together and it gives a company something to celebrate.

Yeah.

So when your company, and if you're listening to this and you're in charge of HR or you're in charge of or you own your own business, whatever, I'm Telling you there is, there is so much to be gained by supporting youth sports that it's unbelievable if, if you are that, that, that jersey that that kid wears, you're there. Crumb Trucking or their, you know, whatever else.

Epps Garden center, all the different people that you played for, Ethan, when you were playing, you know, I shout out to my, my friends who, who played with me for man, we played for Schmiel's Markets and we played for Precision Drill and we prayed. We played for, you know, all these different companies that we didn't even know what they made or what they did. That's fine.

They were just on our shirt.

But if those people from that company got behind our team, came to see the games, I mean I would, I would put the, I would put the schedule up and say, hey, our team, our company sponsors this team. Here's the schedule. Go see him play.

Yeah.

I mean, how cool would that be if you just say, I got nothing to do tonight, let's go over and see the kids play. Okay. When you start doing that and bringing your community together, that's the power of rec. Ball select doesn't do that.

They're not set up to do that. That's not their thing. Their thing is their parent funded for the opportunity for the tournaments. They've already got a system. That's fine.

The thing that makes REC unique is that REC connects to the community.

Do service projects in your community, take your kids out and do stuff for people to, to, to breed that sort of service mentality together and give back to the community that is supporting your rec league.

You know, there's all kinds of ways that you can do this to, to come together and, and create that sort of support network that allows you to have those upper level teams. But that would be in a, in a gosh, in an ideal world there would be an opportunity for kids to be able to say 12, 13, 14 years old, you know what?

I'm going to play for fun and I can still do it on a good team, have a good time, have, have learn more about the game, that experience and enjoy my, that's the key. And not break my neck trying to get to the next level. Next level, next level.

I think you'd see a lot more kids do that and maybe we wouldn't be at just 3% going to, going to high school.

I agree, I agree a lot of it too.

Again, comes back to educating parents and the anxiety, the investment and stuff, thinking that one side of the fence is better than the other side of the fence or the green, the grass is greener on the other side, which in times, once they get there, it's not. I tell you a example of a kid that just training. He played for this travel team, okay. And he was a catcher.

So he caught four games down in Florida without a break. Okay. Comes back the next year at 14U. And you know, athletically wasn't really there, but at 13, you guess what? They only wanted him to be a P.O. okay.

For, I would say closer, over $2,000. Okay. Now, the kid didn't want to go and try out for another team because I guess he's got trial anxiety. So he took.

He took the open spot for being a PO for that amount. Okay. And he. He played. But guess what? Towards the end of the year, they circle back around asking you to catch again.

That sounds familiar.

They ask him to catch again. And so, so. And I remember telling the parents, it's like, man, I wouldn't have done that. I mean, you know, I gave them my, my.

But they, you know, decision making. Yes. I said I wouldn't have done that. I'd have put him on a less team and let him play as many positions, whatever. And guess what? She did it.

I mean, they did it the next year.

But after these two years of spending a lot of money and now he's playing on a team where he's playing a lot more positions and probably having fun, you know, so those are. Oh, and another thing, I wanted to circle back around as far as recipe. It was fun. Rec develops you a lot. You're playing versus travel at times.

I know our travel team, we played up a lot, but like Ethan was saying, 9 and 10, 11 and 12.

Yeah.

When you got to the big field. Yes. You got the 13 to 15 years old at the time, and you're always, okay.

You might beat a younger team, and then the next year you're the older team, you know, so now you're. And it was like that where we played at in football and basketball.

So I think that really taught us a lot about life, competing sports because we always had to take our game. We didn't. Never. We knew we lost. But, you know, we always played hard. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we always played hard.

I think somewhere along the line, we've lost the idea that you can casually enjoy sports and everybody can play a little bit. I think we've gone to where you're either an athlete or you're not.

Right.

And you're either elite, getting labels.

Labels, labels.

Yes. We Got a lot of labels.

You know, I grew up in a time when, you know, every man I knew in my life could go out and play church softball if they wanted to and did. Could. Could. Could do this at least. Yeah, it was. It was no big deal. Like, if you want to play a little sports, play a little sports. It's no big deal.

The. The idea that you can do it recreationally, we've lost this somewhere. We think you have to be, you know, super elite, you know, concentrated or not.

And I. I think we need to get back to a society where it's something because, you know, you take a look at mdni. MDNI stands for My dad and I. Right.

Now, the idea was originally that this is something that, you know, fathers and sons share with one another. Born out of your relationship with your sons. Okay. So.

But if you get to the point where the dad goes, well, yeah, I mean, I played a little bit when I was a kid, but I'm not an athlete.

Right.

I mean, it's just not something I do.

I hear that a lot.

Then. Then you're like, well, you don't have to be no one. No one expects you to be, George Foster. Go out there and play with your kids. Amen.

Yes. You know, thank you. Thank you.

Nobody expects you to be in that. That minute percentage of 1%.

Just have fun with them, man. I don't care what it is. And it might not even be best. I mean, baseball.

Yeah.

It could be other things.

Bonding. It's called bonding.

Yes. Thank you.

So you look at. You look at the idea that we can all casually enjoy sports of all kinds.

Yes.

That's. That's a much more rounded. Much more rounded society.

I catch balance. I catch myself somewhere, George. It is balance. And I catch myself sometimes in between, so fast. Oh, thank you.

I gotta get your fist pump on that, man. But I catch myself sometimes seeing kids like that, and sometimes I back up and I said, man, I'm over coaching this kid or whatever, and I.

And I catch myself in between senses and everything. And it's funny, I kind of have to laugh at myself for doing that because I want the experience to.

For the kid to have fun and learn the game and things like that. And then I'm seeing kids from. From all different levels, and I have to be cognizant to not lump them into one. One level.

You understand what I'm saying? Because I gotta see. I gotta see where their level is at and everything. And. And then I have to remind a parent it's a Process, man.

It's step by step by step. They'll take two steps forward and a couple steps back. But that's the process of getting better.

Because we all know kids don't go outside and play the game like that anymore.

No.

So that's where the patience comes in. And I think that the patience doesn't align with parents at times because gotta do it now. I'm paying for these lessons, man.

And he's gotta learn now and then I don't. For me as an instructor, I kind of back off. Like, nah, I don't want you putting that on me.

Well, that's so important that you're able to have that perspective.

Yes.

But what I think the issue is what you're saying. Parents don't do that for their own kid.

And so they see another kid that is as high level and, and they associate their kid with this kid because they're the same age.

Yeah.

Yes.

The question is, did you talk to your kid and see what he's interested in? You know what I mean? And so there was.

See what I see?

Yes.

There was a lot of kids that I played wreck bow with that went on to play different sports.

Same here.

Yeah.

And so it's. But that was something I always appreciated is dad was going to ask, you know, are you, are you enjoying this? Where do you want to go?

And let me help you get there. And you know, as a kid, my goal was just high school base wise. Okay, we'll get you to high school baseball and then there you go.

But a lot of, a lot of parents want more baseball for their kid than the kid wants for themselves.

More softball or more softball?

Yes.

Or any, any sport, really.

Sport. Yes, sir.

Ethan is more than my podcast partner. He's my son. And like every baseball parent, my first priority was his development as a player.

Every year we'd start out with a new coach and a new team, making new promises, only to end up playing the same old tournaments with little to no practice in between. You know what I'm talking about? That's why I'm so thankful that we found MDNI Academy.

I first met Coach Rick over a decade ago when Ethan was just a kid. And I'll never forget the relief I felt watching his first lesson.

I knew right then that no matter what team he played for, my son would have amazing, consistent instruction from someone who cared. Rick has trained baseball and softball players at the select, travel and even college levels.

So I knew that Ethan could continue his excellence through training approach for his whole baseball career. He Learned hitting, pitching, catching, fielding and more all in one place.

Most of all, he learned to love the greatest game in the world and how to play it with character and integrity.

MDNI is a first class facility with plenty of tunnels for hitting and pitching instruction that open up into large areas for teaching fielding, baserunning speed and agility. They even have a weight room for strength training.

So if you're wearing yourself out running all over town to multiple teachers or worse, you're counting on that new selection. Select coach to actually develop your child. You need to check out MDNI Academy today.

Go to mdaiacademy.com and contact Coach Rick to learn how you can get all the baseball instruction you need from someone who cares about your favorite player as much as you do at MDNI Academy. This is, this just occurred to me a minute ago. I was thinking about this. So I don't know if you guys remember television in the 70s.

Okay, so I'm watching, I'm growing up in the 70s. I'm watching things like Happy Days, right?

Is that the one where you got to play with the rabbit ears all the time?

Yeah. So we got. I'm watching Happy Days and it was not uncommon. You know, all these guys, they, they were in, they were in a band.

The characters, they were in the band and then they did a thing and then they went out and guess what they did? They played softball. Yeah, they played softball all the time. And they were in their own softball team and they were their own.

Or you'd see they do these battle of the network stars things on television where they'd have different sporting events and it would be actors and whoever else. And you know what? They weren't half bad. They were actually pretty good.

Yes, they were.

And the idea was that anybody can go out and do this. This is. No, we're not, we're not going to be the, the Cincinnati Reds, but we're going to go out and maybe now.

Yeah, but so, so the idea of, the idea of being able to just recreationally enjoy sports, I think is, is something we need to get back to. Something we need to get back.

The bottom line I look at when I tell the parents, I said, through baseball, learning life skills.

Yes, sir.

Learning life skills through baseball is not necessarily going to go forward in baseball. You may go to another sport or getting involved in some other field, but learn life skills.

So that's going to help you farther on down the road, I think.

Now, kids don't handle failure very well because they're not taught, they're not Taught well, the pressure, the parents, and they're not giving the least.

What's wrong with you, Ethan? Can't you do that? You just did it the other day. What's going on? You're not even listening.

I just had a. I just had a parent the other day. Son struggled like, well, you know, he played on the team year before, didn't do well.

It's playing on the team now and it's not doing very well. And so of course, he's not very athletic and all that. I was like, oh, oh man, here we go.

Well, what it, what it is is it's an identity crisis.

Yes.

And when you put your identity as a young kid, your identity becomes the sport that you play. Then everything, every win and every fail, it's a roller coaster of only highs and only lows.

Yes.

When it's something a little less pressure, it's like, oh, this didn't work out. And it's a, it's a smaller failure. And you learn how to.

I think it helps you learn how to deal with it better because everything isn't so catastrophic all the time.

It's result oriented. They're looking at the results. And you go out there, you don't. You go say 0 for 4 or 3, but look at the progress being made.

So those 0 for 3, 0 for 4, maybe hit line drives right at somebody. So don't look, don't be so result oriented.

And so that's why I want, when I go to go to the games, watching the kids, and then when I ask the parents, okay, what did the kid do that day? It's not necessarily looking at the results, but how did he get there? So he got ahead. Okay. I said, where did they go? Where did he hit?

And what was the count? They were like, they're looking at me like, why you want to know all that?

So now to me, I know that, okay, he had a 3:1 count and he hit the ball to the opposite field. I said, who won that battle? And he said, well, the kid did. No, I said, the pitcher did.

Because you settle for just a single, but three and one, you got to trust yourself to be able to hit with two strikes. So that's going to that next level. I'm just want to see what level that kid can go. And I talk about hitting zone compared to strike zone.

And I tell the kid, I said, could you hit that? Yes, but it's not a strike. Yeah, but could you hit that?

Right, right.

I'd rather for you to swing at it, even if you miss it, then the umpire gonna call you on that.

Right? Yeah. And I think what this all comes down to is a willingness to be, to, to. To face reality and make decisions in the framework of reality.

Yes.

Rather than, look, everybody wants to dream and everybody wants to. Every parent.

No fantasizing, no fantasies.

Everybody wants to get behind their kids and, and help them achieve their dreams. Yes, I understand that.

Sometimes they want to get behind them to do what they want to do.

Right, right. To achieve their own dreams. Yeah.

Yeah. I want you to be a baseball. Baseball player. I want you to be. I don't want. Yeah, you are. You gotta be that.

So, you know, I understand. Believe me, believe me, I understand what, what this is like from a parent perspective. But we're, we're not helping our kids if we don't.

Let me put this way.

You're helping them a whole lot more if you, you're helping them a whole lot more by helping them deal with reality than you are by letting them continue to believe something that isn't true.

Right, right.

And so it is, it is a loving and supportive thing to say, hey, I think maybe it's time to think about doing this, and then let's pursue this or let's try, you know, let's take on this. Well, let's go this direction.

If. If to love your kid is to want what's best for them, that includes truth. And sometimes truth isn't fun.

Yes.

But that doesn't make it not the truth, and it doesn't make it less necessary.

Yeah, I think we get caught up in this idea. Well, I just want my kid to be happy. You know, you ask your parents, well, I just want my child to be happy. And I have, I have often said that.

I think that's. I think that's a dangerous thing. I.

You got to give some, Some sound guidance. And I just want Ethan to be happy. But, but what does make him happy, though?

I know when he's out there playing baseball, he somewhat likes, but when he's out there playing basketball or playing football, he really loves it. Come back home right back, he's talking about it.

No, but I wanted him to play baseball because I was a catcher, and I love Johnny Benson, and I want him to follow in the footsteps. And then I'm looking at Soto with the mets, you know, $765 million, you know, I could go on a lot of vacation.

Well, and, you know, I think that when you, when you get caught up in the idea that you just want your kids to be Happy. The danger is that happiness is an emotion. It comes and it goes. It's involuntary. You can't choose it.

George, I can't look at you and say, george, be happy right now. You can't, you can't be like, like.

You can't be happy and you know it.

Yeah, you can't, you can't make it happen. Okay?

So if, if what you want for your child is something that comes and goes and no one can control it, no one has any, the ability to make it happen. That's a dangerous place to be. I would much rather have my child have joy. And joy is the satisfaction of doing what's right.

So when I, I want to teach him to, to, to do what's right in his life. And I want to do what's best for him. And by doing that, I'm helping him to achieve joy. And joy will get you through a dark night.

Joy will get you through a tough time.

Joy can't always get what you want.

That's right. Joy will help you get by when you don't have any money.

Joy will help you get by when you, when you're struggling with your health, when you're struggling with, you know, your work, when you're struggling with all kinds of things. Joy will get you by because you know you did what was right. And I think that that's where the, you do.

Doing what is right, that's work, what works.

Yeah. Level swing, let it travel. Wait for your pitch. Be aggressive out there. It's no wonder young players get confused at the plate.

What if your son or daughter could learn not only how to hit the ball, but also where to hit it, when to hit it there and why. George Foster has played baseball at the very highest levels.

He was the National League MVP when he hit 50, 52 home runs and 149 RBIs in a single season. He led the major leagues and home runs twice and RBIs three times.

He was a five time All Star, a Silver Slugger, and he helped the Reds win back to back World series. During his 15 year career, George developed a unique approach to hitting that made him one of the greatest hitters of all time.

And now your favorite player can learn it too. That's right, baseball legend George Foster. Foster is currently accepting new students.

Learn the psychology of hitting, situational hitting, hitting for power, bunting and more. Every team needs players who can hit and George explains the game in a way that's easy to understand and exciting to learn.

So check out georgefosterbaseball.com to learn how you can apply for private lessons with a member of the Cincinnati Reds. Hall of Fame. Spots are limited and the roster will fill up fast, so don't wait.

Apply at george foster baseball.com so I want you to, I want to, I want to kind of go back and recap here a little bit. So we've looked at when it, when a child is playing baseball and the progression of it. Okay.

We've said that of all the kids who will play baseball, 3% will play in high school. And by the time you get to college, you're less than 1%. Those are the main, those are the main numbers that we talked about.

Yeah.

Less than 1% will play in college.

And beyond elite, but bleak.

So 99% plus will make the decision to play for fun before college. And the question for kids and for parents is when do you make that decision?

And our encouragement to rec programs is really dig in and try and connect with your local businesses, your local communities, build a strong network of support, work hard to train your coaches to be able to provide those upper level teams so that parents can then feel comfortable guiding their kids to make that decision earlier.

Parents, we're encouraging you to, to take to heart these numbers and really consider when you need to be guiding your children to make that decision to play for fun. And if your local rec situation doesn't have those opportunities for 16, 17, 18 year old kids, go and volunteer to be part of it.

Show up and say, hey, I'd really like for there to be an opportunity here. How can I help? What can I do? Can I help raise money? Can I coach a team? What can I do? Can I, you know, be a part of the solution?

But I think if more parents made, made that, that reality decision and guided their kids to it and said, yeah, I think there needs to be these, I think there would be more, more recreational opportunities. Now you've also got the opportunity to, to, to go to a private instructor like, like Rick or George.

These guys work with kids all the time and they are, they are an impartial third party.

That's important because an impartial third party can say, I think that, yeah, I think, I think your son or daughter has a chance to play in high school. And I think that if we work hard, I think we can get them there.

And, and then the parent says, okay, I think I can, you know, I think I can afford the investment, let's go do it. Or maybe one of these guys says, you know, I've seen a lot of Players at a lot of levels.

And I think your son or your daughter will be happier to play for fun right now. And they're more than welcome to continue coming for lessons to continue to get better.

If they, if you know, they, they want to try out for high school, we'll do everything we can to help them be ready for that. But I think your, your investment is better spent in a different area and allow your child to play for fun.

The, the in impartial analysis of a third party can be so important when you do that. When you do that. At the end of the day, we want to encourage rec programs to be as strong and as vibrant as they can be.

Get stronger.

We want to encourage select programs to be as strong and vibrant as they can be. Continue developing kids who want to go on playing high school, playing college, do those kinds of things.

We love all baseball and at all levels and we're just trying to offer some, some, some encouragement to, to parents and coaches and organizations to make baseball as well or as great as it can be. Something that we can all enjoy as, as kids and as adults for our whole lives.

And you make a great impact. So realize that your, your level is important.

Yeah.

And developing these kids because you're getting them prepared for later on and helping them make a sound decision. But back to the parents, it's not thinking of the time.

There's important, there's important to find out, make that decision as far as where your kid going to play. And that decision need to be made. So get as much information as you possibly can to make a sound decision.

Another thing I would add to what George is saying is that if you are make that change from wreck to select to travel. Also make sure that if your son or daughter love the game or like the game.

Yeah.

If they love the game, they're going to practice more. And so your investment is going to look like, man, that's a great investment. It's going to be paid off. But you got to understand that.

Or are you continually driving them to, to work and if they, you don't see them hidden off the tee or whatever, you think that they might not be doing it and they might, might be doing it, but on their terms and on their time.

Yes, very good point. Very good point.

When you, when you, when you get to that crossroads and you make that decision, you kind of become business partners with your kids a little bit. Yeah, you become, you're like you're the funding arm of the, of the venture here and it's a decision that you make together and be less.

Fewer regrets later on. Yeah, because I hear parents say, you know, I put out paid all this money for you to do this and now you don't want to do it.

I hear that too.

But you should have asked years earlier couple years earlier.

You didn't do the, the investigation on your investment prior to go.

Yeah, that's where I think that's where the ex anxiety, stress and taking that to the field.

Parents need to do their homework.

Yes.

As far as sitting down, looking at the finance and looking at if the investment, seeing where the kid is, if the kid like say love it or like it. One of the two. There's no in between, no gray area.

So I hope you've enjoyed our conversation about the case for rec Ball today.

I hope that we've offered up some information that was helpful to you and some, some encouragement that was helpful to you regardless of where you are in the process.

I certainly enjoyed our time today and as I do every time with these guys, I cannot tell you, this is our 10th, our 10th episode and this has been absolutely the thrill of my life life to be able to do this podcast with these guys and I really appreciate them and all of their time and I hope you do too. I hope you're enjoying it and I hope you're catching it.

Everywhere that you can find podcasts, whether That's Spotify, Amazon, iHeartRadio, any place that you would normally listen to podcasts, you can also find it at our website@completegame podcast.com as well as on Facebook and on YouTube. So until we get together next time, have a great time and we'll see you real soon.

We hope you've enjoyed the Complete Game Podcast, the show that's all about baseball. New episodes drop each week, so be sure to subscribe so you don't miss a thing.

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Check us out at 2CreativeDigital.com on behalf of Ethan, Coach Rick and the Silver Slugger, George Foster, I'm Greg Dungan saying have a great week and we'll see you real soon.