Valor in the Workforce: Unlocking Veteran Talent with Headlamp | The Pair Program Ep45

Tim Winkler: 00:00:04

Welcome to The Pair Program from hatchpad, the podcast that gives you

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a front row seat to candid conversations

with tech leaders from the startup world.

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I'm your host, Tim Winkler, the

creator of hatchpad, and I'm

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your other host, Mike Gruen.

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Join us each episode as we bring

together two guests to dissect topics

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at the intersection of technology,

startups and career growth.

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Hi everyone.

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Welcome back to The Pair Program.

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Uh, Tim Winkler here alongside Mike Gruen.

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So Mike, I was going to ask you this

past weekend, we took Alice to, uh,

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to a Caps game, um, and we, we had

taken her previously when she was like

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three months and we had like the whole

like headphone set, uh, have you taken

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your kids to like sporting events

or concerts when they were younger?

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Did you, did you do that?

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I was always curious cause I was

doing some research on this of

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like, well, what's the decibels?

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Uh, what's the safe zone for kids?

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Uh, To go without the earmuffs.

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Mike Gruen: So we did.

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And my oldest actually, when he was,

uh, it's funny that you asked that

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because I still have the headsets.

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I use them for when

I'm using the chainsaw.

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Uh, cause we ended up

having to get bigger pairs.

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Um, uh, cause my oldest was actually

really sensitive to noise, like

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all the way through, uh, like first

grade or I guess, kindergarten.

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Um, and so, um, like fire

alarms, all kinds of things.

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So, yeah, we, we, anytime we were going

into like a loud venue, definitely

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use them, um, with the older one,

probably more lax with the younger

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one, because that's just how that goes.

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Tim Winkler: That's right.

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Mike Gruen: Uh, so my younger one's

going to have, you know, uh, ringing

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in his ears and all the rest of it.

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Tim Winkler: We actually forgot them.

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We're, we're a gunner brand.

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We forgot them.

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She's 15 months, but, uh, we,

we were just, as soon as we got

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in, just kind of looking around.

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It's like, oh, okay.

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There's a ton of little babies here.

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So we weren't

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Mike Gruen: public shaming.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I would say cap center, like for a

caps game, it's super loud there.

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It does get loud.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Uh, There's even reports that they

pipe, uh, the, uh, crowd noise

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back in over the PA to make it

even louder, um, which is, uh,

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Tim Winkler: sounds like a, sounds like

a New York, uh, Rangers, uh, I mean, the

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Mike Gruen: Rangers,

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Tim Winkler: no, no, the Rangers

do it to every, every, every,

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they're not supposed to, but

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Mike Gruen: long

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Tim Winkler: and short, it was loud

caps one and Ovi had two goals.

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So it was a good, it was

a good, uh, good outing.

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Um, cool.

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All right, let's, uh, let's just jump

into the episode we've got for today.

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So we're going to be focusing on a

conversation that sits kind of at this

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intersection of talents, recruiting and

veterans, um, specifically discussing

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the special skills that veterans bring

to tech and the emerging roles for them.

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And the industry, um, you know,

veterans play a critical role in

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tech sectors that are crucial,

obviously to like national security.

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So areas like cybersecurity and energy.

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Um, we'll hear firsthand from a former

army recruiter turned startup founder,

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uh, of a company on a mission that is

designed to help veterans transition to

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the civilian world, um, as well, uh, uh,

the co founder of a venture firm that's

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backing this really interesting startup.

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So.

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Our first guest is Steve Chang.

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Steve's the distinguished

former special forces officer

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and the founder of headlamp.

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Uh, and joining Steve is Jeremy Hitchcock.

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Jeremy's a trailblazer, former

tech entrepreneur as well.

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Uh, multiple, uh, co founder

of, of multiple startups.

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Uh, and he's currently the co

founder of new North ventures.

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Um, thank you both for joining

us on the podcast today, guys.

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Steve Chang: Yeah.

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Tim Winkler: Thanks for having us.

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Thanks.

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Absolutely.

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Uh, all right.

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Now, uh, before we do dive into the

discussion, we are going to kick

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things off with our pair me up segment.

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Like you go ahead and lead

us off by what you got today.

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Mike Gruen: So we're going back to food.

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Um, I thought about this a lot.

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Um, it's going to be bananas

and maple syrup, but hold on.

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It's not like I just drown maple syrup on

bananas or drown bananas and maple syrup.

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I like pancakes with bananas

and I also like French toast.

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With bananas.

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And then I realized it's really just

the, it's the, they're just maple syrup

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deliveries, factories, uh, systems.

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So it's really the bananas and the maple

syrup that are, that are the key to that.

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Uh, so that's my pairing.

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Um, it's been a while

since I've done foods.

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I figured I'd go back.

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Back to that.

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Well, who's welcome here

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Tim Winkler: to try that out with, uh,

so Alice, she's obsessed with bananas.

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So we're all about trying,

uh, you know, anything.

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And I think our last guest had

the, the bananas in the, um,

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was it the marshmallow fluff?

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Mike Gruen: No, he was doing peanut

butter and marshmallow fluff, but, um,

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I will say the, uh, my mom, when we

made, when she made banana pancakes,

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the bananas were sliced into the batter.

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Like it was cooked.

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The bananas were cooked into the pancakes.

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I much prefer that to the, put

the bananas on top at the end.

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Then it's just now you're just

having fruit on top of your pancakes.

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I like it actually in the pancake.

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There you go.

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Good, good Intel.

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Tim Winkler: Cool.

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Yeah, I dig.

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I dig that.

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Uh, I'm going to actually go

with the food parent as well.

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Um, so something that, um, We had a

couple of years ago, uh, at a breakfast

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spot out in Chattanooga, Tennessee.

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I've been a fan of it ever since.

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Um, it's kind of become a little bit

of a staple in our household, but it's

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this combination of an egg and cheese

sandwich and strawberry preserves.

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Um, so it's this combination

of like the sweet.

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With the preserves and then the savory

with the egg and cheese and you throw it

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on an English muffin and treat yourself.

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If you haven't tried that, just,

uh, it's a pretty good combo.

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We recommend like a Vermont cheddar too,

if you're going for a nice cheese on top

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of the egg, but, uh, Uh, give it a shot,

add the jelly, add the, add the preserves

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and, um, it's a, it's a righteous combo.

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Mike Gruen: Sounds good.

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I do like, I do like that.

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Tim Winkler: Yeah.

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All right.

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Keeping a breakfast theme here.

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Let's see if we can, we

can switch it up here.

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Let's, let's pass it over

to our guest, uh, Steve.

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How about, uh, a quick

intro and, uh, and your

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Steve Chang: pairing?

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Yeah, Tim.

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Thanks.

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Uh, so Steve Chang, I'm a retired army

special forces officer, like you said,

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and a founder of a company called

headlamp, which we'll talk about.

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I don't know.

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I guess I'm going to break

from the breakfast thing.

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Um, and I thought about this

to try to stay on brand.

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You know, it's like the comfy

couch and it's like that wasn't me.

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Um, so for me, the pairing is, uh, early

spring, you know, late winter, sort of

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in Boston and the start of soccer season.

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Um, And it's just this like,

beautiful, you know, getting outdoors.

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Finally.

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Um, it's still horrible.

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We were out there last weekend.

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It was, uh, 35 degrees and rainy, you

know, on the field and it's just, you

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know, you're getting drenched, but

you're, you're finally back out and

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you're, you know, the kids are out there.

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Yeah, soccer is pretty much what I

do when I'm not working, um, kids

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are out there running around and,

and then, yeah, you get all dried up,

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you get back home and it's just a,

it's great to, to get back outdoors.

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So soccer and early season.

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So that's my parents.

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How many kids you got?

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Uh, three kids, you know, the, like

the high school and middle school.

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So yeah.

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Yeah, so a little bit older.

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I bet we've been doing this

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Tim Winkler: for a while, you know?

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Yeah.

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Soccer is a great sport for, uh,

you know, for kids getting into it.

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And, uh, I played growing up as well.

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Didn't, didn't play in the high school,

but, um, you know, it gets pretty

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serious when she started thinking

about like, you know, travel leagues

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and, and club teams, stuff like that.

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But, uh, it's a commitment for sure.

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Three kids.

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Yeah.

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Mike Gruen: I played once a little

and then took a break and then played

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all through high school is great.

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Loved it.

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Nice.

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Steve Chang: No, definitely.

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Uh, yeah, the whole, uh, thing is a

huge business and it's a racket, but,

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uh, you know, and we've been, uh, we've

been out there for many, many seasons.

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So our weekends are shot.

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But it's great.

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Tim Winkler: Yeah.

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I mean, youth sports at large is just

becoming this, uh, obsessive space.

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And it's actually like speaking of

startups, we, we, we worked with

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a company in the past called Game

Changer that does a lot of like the,

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the data, uh, and live streaming

of, of youth, like baseball sports.

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Um, I mean, Dick's owns it,

Dick's Sporting Goods owns it.

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Just, uh, an insane, uh, movement, I

think, uh, it seems like in the last like

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10 plus years of just parents becoming

uber obsessed with, uh, with the youth

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sports, you know, it is what it is.

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I think it's a, it's a, it's a hobby for

them just as much as it is for the kids.

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Cool.

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All right.

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Let's, uh, let's pass it

over to, uh, to Jeremy.

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Uh, how about a quick

intro and your pairing?

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All

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Jeremy Hitchcock: right.

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Great to be here.

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Uh, intro for me, co founder and director

at new North ventures, early stage venture

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fund backing things at the intersection

of innovation and national security, and

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as you said, prior to this started a bunch

of things, had a fun time doing that for.

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Uh, the tech space for, for a bunch of

years building, building stuff and my

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pairing, I'm going to stay on breakfast

because I can stay on breakfast if

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it's morning, lunch, or evening.

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Sorry, Steve.

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Uh, so I, I mean, I feel like it's an all

the time thing and I, I definitely want to

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want to draft off the, uh, the maple syrup

thing because it's maple syrup season.

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I hope everybody's getting

their sugaring going on.

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We're certainly no different getting

the sap, boiling it down and making,

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make it some fun at New Hampshire.

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Maple syrup.

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That is the finest.

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Tim Winkler: My wife's got family

in Vermont, so they'd probably had

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to, they argue a little bit uh, with

you in terms of the, the finest, but

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what, what is it, uh, what is it?

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You're, you're throwing that on?

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Is it, um, your pancakes, waffles?

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What's your, what's that

breakfast of choice for you?

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Well, they're, they're different.

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I mean, the, the

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Jeremy Hitchcock: waffles, you know, they

have, they have the little, uh, Spots

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for all the nooks and crannies, nooks and

crannies, just like an English muffin, but

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you put the preserves in, but you get a

little bit more air interaction going on

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with the maple and the pancakes pancakes.

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It's just like, you know, get it done.

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Like we're going to get some

maple syrup on a delivery vehicle

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and we're going to get the maple

syrup in the mouth as possible.

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I dig it.

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I dig it.

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No shots.

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No shots of maple syrup, though.

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I think that's, that's

probably a little too much.

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Steve Chang: Yeah.

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I go back and throw in chicken, you

know, fried chicken and waffles,

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waffles, delicious.

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Tim Winkler: Yeah.

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I might just cut this a podcast

short and go grab some food and

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getting, getting hungry here.

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Just talking about it.

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I had to skip breakfast

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Mike Gruen: cause we're

doing a morning one, so, uh,

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hope it's new Hampshire maple syrup.

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You're going to

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Jeremy Hitchcock: find.

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Tim Winkler: Cool.

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All right.

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Let's, uh, let's transition

from the food and, and, and

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dive into the discussion here.

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So, um, the way I kind of see this

conversation flowing, I, I'd like to begin

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with Steve and, and Steve, you giving

our listeners just a little bit more

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additional context on your background and,

and your journey leading up to headlamp

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as this story clearly plays a part into,

you know, why you, you built headlamp

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and then obviously expand a little bit

more into like what headlamp is doing and

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how it's solving some of these problems.

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Uh, once you kick that off and

then we can, um, pass it over to

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Jeremy and learn a little bit more

about how you guys intersected.

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Steve Chang: Yeah, so thanks for that.

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Um, and thanks for the

chance to talk about this.

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I mean, uh, I can't, I tend to

run into missions and I have

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a hard time setting them down.

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Like, I'm a little bit obsessive

when it comes to that and.

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A few years back, uh, 1 of the, you

know, formative things that happened is

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I came up to New England and I was put in

charge of the army recruiting battalion.

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Yeah.

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Spent like 18 years of my career in.

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Infantry special operations, like, doing

all that kind of stuff and had had a few

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things in training and that kind of thing.

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But.

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Um, you know, it was mostly operationally

focused and so they, uh, at the

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end of all that decided, hey, the

best spot for Steve, uh, for his

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development is to send them up to New

England and try to do recruiting and.

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You know, for all the recruiters who

might be army recruiters, especially

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who might be listening out there,

like, they know New England is.

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Is a tough, tough spot to recruit

from, uh, for the military.

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Uh, everyone's going to college.

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Everyone's, you know, got great

opportunities ahead of them.

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Not a lot of military

presence, that kind of stuff.

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Um, and I guess what happened is, you

know, as I got into that mission, I

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started really diving, you know, cause

I'm trying to solve, you know, accomplish

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our mission and, and we had to figure

this, this out, uh, just saw like

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where, how young people are making their

decisions, where they're ended up and.

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You know, we ended up changing

our tactics a little bit.

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We started targeting college dropouts

because, you know, as many as the, as much

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as the kids were going to college from

here, uh, they were dropping out, uh, you

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know, not all of them were graduating.

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And so we started, uh, approaching

them and, you know, offering them a

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lifeline, you know, a job chance to

pay off loans, that kind of thing.

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So, you know, what that shed

light on for me, I guess, is

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tying it back to headlamp is.

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Like the quality of veterans that

we have in the military, you know,

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it's just, it's, this isn't your

World War II Vietnam era veterans.

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It's, you know, not even Gulf

War, early Gulf War, right?

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This is a highly technically, you know,

technical acumen, uh, high, high aptitude.

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You know, it's, it's really hard to

get into the military, um, these days.

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And so, um, you know, I'm fast

forwarding and I'm mixing some of the

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years up on, on our journey, but, you

know, sort of, uh, ended up realizing.

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Um, you know, as I was going

through the process of leaving

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the military myself, um,

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the system to support veterans as they're

leaving the service is, is just broken.

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And it's not, you know, very,

uh, it's not very well organized.

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It's not, you know, meant

to optimize anything.

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It's, it's really just haphazard.

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And then, you know, on the flip

side, employers are just missing

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out on just so much talent.

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I mean, we're talking about 7 percent

of the workforce is veterans out there.

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: 00:14:29

And if you have a sort of blind

spot on how to, how to bring in

310

: 00:14:33

veterans into your workforce, you

just, you can't be successful.

311

: 00:14:36

So, you know, went to business

school as I was leaving the military,

312

: 00:14:40

decided and kind of knew that

I wanted to be entrepreneurial.

313

: 00:14:44

Uh, figured out that, you know, of all

the things I know, I know veterans,

314

: 00:14:47

the best, you know, maybe we'll talk

about some of the, uh, early things

315

: 00:14:51

I tried to do, but, um, you know,

focused on transitioning veterans and

316

: 00:14:56

realizing that there's just, you know,

immense value coming out of the force.

317

: 00:15:00

And.

318

: 00:15:00

Um, you know, how, how do we optimize it?

319

: 00:15:02

And then, you know, as I started

talking to folks at like Jeremy and

320

: 00:15:06

the circles that we run in, like this,

this isn't just, uh, important for

321

: 00:15:11

veterans, important for employers, but

this is like a national security thing.

322

: 00:15:15

Like this is.

323

: 00:15:16

In an extremely potent talent, um,

talent pool that if we're not tapping

324

: 00:15:22

into, if we're not utilizing properly,

you know, I don't want to go too

325

: 00:15:26

extreme on this, but, you know, we,

we, we need to do that in order to.

326

: 00:15:30

To create a, you know, secure

democracy and those sorts of things.

327

: 00:15:34

So, so I'll stop there, you know,

see, see where else you want to head.

328

: 00:15:38

Tim Winkler: Yeah.

329

: 00:15:39

Yeah, no, it's, it's a really

fascinating, uh, subject.

330

: 00:15:42

And, um, you know, we, we actually held

a, uh, an episode not too much, not

331

: 00:15:47

too long ago, uh, specifically centered

around military spouse unemployment and

332

: 00:15:53

how that was a national security issue.

333

: 00:15:57

And so after, after following up on

that conversation, uh, I wanted to

334

: 00:16:02

make a point to, you know, get a,

get an episode centered around, you

335

: 00:16:07

know, veterans transitioning as well.

336

: 00:16:09

Um, because I don't think there's

enough awareness about it.

337

: 00:16:12

Uh, I think it is a, you know, for

example, the military spouse unemployment

338

: 00:16:16

is a national security issue as well.

339

: 00:16:18

Um, and so when you bring it into that

light, um, You know, it is something

340

: 00:16:23

that I think people need to be aware of.

341

: 00:16:25

I think corporations

need to be privy to it.

342

: 00:16:28

Um, and, um, you know, how, how do

we, how do we solve that problem?

343

: 00:16:32

So I think that's a good, um, segue

right into, uh, headlamp, right?

344

: 00:16:36

So what, what, what is headlamp,

uh, give us the, the, the pitch

345

: 00:16:40

on headlamp and, um, you know,

how, how are you, uh, solving this

346

: 00:16:45

problem, uh, with the technology?

347

: 00:16:48

Steve Chang: No, thanks.

348

: 00:16:49

Um, lately I've been describing

headlamp as a, as a giant bonfire

349

: 00:16:54

and I am just like, you know,

trying to solve, uh, lots of issues.

350

: 00:16:57

But, you know, what I, what I would

say is headlamp is a, uh, Jeremy gets

351

: 00:17:01

a kick out of that, uh, headlamps, uh,

it's a veteran transition accelerator,

352

: 00:17:05

you know, our mission, we serve to,

uh, to, you know, customers, we serve

353

: 00:17:11

veterans, uh, that are leaving active

duty service and, and looking for, you

354

: 00:17:15

know, You know, help as they exit the

military and try to navigate the private

355

: 00:17:20

sector for the 1st time in their lives.

356

: 00:17:22

You know, for most of them, um,

anywhere from 150 to 250, 000 a

357

: 00:17:28

year, just depending on sort of how

things are going on the macro scale.

358

: 00:17:32

Uh, so that's a that's a lot of people.

359

: 00:17:35

Uh, who need help.

360

: 00:17:36

And then at the same time, we are

serving employers who are trying

361

: 00:17:40

to gain a competitive advantage.

362

: 00:17:42

They're trying to, you know, uh,

achieve some, some objectives.

363

: 00:17:46

They're trying to, you know, generate

some value for, you know, for their

364

: 00:17:50

firm, their stakeholders, whatnot.

365

: 00:17:52

And, you know, we tend to think the

ones that come that are willing to

366

: 00:17:57

talk to us, you know, they're smart

because they understand that, uh,

367

: 00:18:00

there's a competitive advantage

to be had by talking to veterans.

368

: 00:18:02

So, so we serve as a veteran

transition accelerator.

369

: 00:18:06

Um, You know, operate a bit of a

marketplace in the sense that, you

370

: 00:18:10

know, we're serving these 2 sides,

but really, and this is maybe where

371

: 00:18:14

the technology can start talking

about technology can come towards.

372

: 00:18:18

It really is like this, uh, in

the center of our operation.

373

: 00:18:22

Making sure that we have a

human in the loop, right?

374

: 00:18:25

We have this person we call

them career liaison officers.

375

: 00:18:28

Funny story on that.

376

: 00:18:29

Um.

377

: 00:18:30

You know, uh, I was, uh, initially,

you know, we were, we had a tech

378

: 00:18:35

advisor and he had, you know,

done some work with stitch fix.

379

: 00:18:38

And so we came up on this concept of

the stylist that they have, right.

380

: 00:18:41

You know, but the stylist at the middle

and we're like, oh, career stylist,

381

: 00:18:44

that sounds, you know, that's swanky,

that's fancy, you know, let's get

382

: 00:18:50

these, these veterans, uh, retiring

veterans and make them career stylists.

383

: 00:18:54

And I was talking to just

a friend and he's like.

384

: 00:18:57

That does not sound military at all.

385

: 00:18:59

Like, dude, you have to change this up.

386

: 00:19:02

And so we brainstormed over, over

coffee and came up with the career

387

: 00:19:06

liaison officer, you know, very

military sounding, still career focused.

388

: 00:19:10

Um, you know, whatever we call them

there, they function as recruiters.

389

: 00:19:14

They function as, um,

mentors to the veterans.

390

: 00:19:18

They function as interface with HR.

391

: 00:19:21

Um, But, but they play a critical role

in sort of, you know, communicating

392

: 00:19:26

context between the 2 parties

because, yeah, there's a lot of stuff.

393

: 00:19:30

Sorry about keep clear of my throat.

394

: 00:19:32

We can just edit those out.

395

: 00:19:35

You know, I, I keep, uh, you know, at

the center of it, um, that, so there

396

: 00:19:41

are a lot of things out there that are

trying to automate this completely.

397

: 00:19:45

And this is maybe where again,

we can talk about the technology.

398

: 00:19:48

It's like, yeah, there's technology

for technology's sake to do this.

399

: 00:19:52

You know, let me look at your, uh, your

ratings and your moss and, you know, all

400

: 00:19:56

the skills that the military gave you.

401

: 00:19:58

And then we'll tell you what, what you

can do at different firms and it's like,

402

: 00:20:03

but, but people don't operate that way.

403

: 00:20:05

You know, they don't want to be told.

404

: 00:20:07

Um, I know from a recruiting,

it's like a early insight.

405

: 00:20:10

I had, you know, what somebody

is doing in the military.

406

: 00:20:14

Oftentimes, and probably, you know,

most of the time has nothing to

407

: 00:20:18

do with what they're interested

in, what they're capable of doing.

408

: 00:20:20

From a recruiting perspective, you

know, little secret to all these

409

: 00:20:26

future recruits, but like what you're

being shown is, you know, that's

410

: 00:20:30

what you're being pushed towards is,

is the mission for the day, right?

411

: 00:20:33

We, Hey, we're trying to

fill some infantry folks.

412

: 00:20:36

Hey, we're, we're trying

to fill some truck drivers.

413

: 00:20:38

Like there, there's a big mission

on the other side of it, right.

414

: 00:20:41

For the military.

415

: 00:20:41

And so, you know, pigeonholing people

to what they did in the military.

416

: 00:20:47

Is like, you know, that's

a recipe for, for failure.

417

: 00:20:50

And so having senior NCOs

who understand that, uh,

418

: 00:20:56

talking to spending the time to talk

to the veterans as they're coming

419

: 00:20:59

out and having, you know, getting the

context about what they're interested

420

: 00:21:03

in, where, you know, sort of what

is that trajectory that they're on?

421

: 00:21:07

That's really, you know, important for us.

422

: 00:21:08

And so that's, that's where

we've spent a lot of our time.

423

: 00:21:11

So that's headlight.

424

: 00:21:12

That's what we do.

425

: 00:21:13

And, you know, boils down to those guys.

426

: 00:21:15

Tim Winkler: It's fascinating.

427

: 00:21:16

I've got, um, a number of, of, uh,

follow up questions in terms of, you

428

: 00:21:20

know, how you guys, um, you know, how

you're matching skills and so forth.

429

: 00:21:25

Um, but, uh, I want to loop Jeremy

in at this point and, uh, Jeremy give

430

: 00:21:30

us, uh, I guess a little bit of the

backstory on how you got connected with

431

: 00:21:35

Steve and, um, and then, you know, a

little bit more on new North ventures.

432

: 00:21:40

Thanks.

433

: 00:21:41

Jeremy Hitchcock: Sure.

434

: 00:21:42

So the first time, and I'm curious if

Steve remembers this, but I was, uh, Uh,

435

: 00:21:48

community college trustee, uh, for the

community college system of New Hampshire,

436

: 00:21:52

seven community colleges touching about,

uh, 25, 30, 000 students and in New

437

: 00:21:57

Hampshire, and we were doing a workforce

development, uh, event in the morning.

438

: 00:22:03

No waffles that morning.

439

: 00:22:04

So obviously very sad going

back to our breakfast story.

440

: 00:22:07

I just want to, you know, keep on story,

but we're, we're at, we're hanging

441

: 00:22:12

out at some, some ridiculously early

morning, which, you know, I'm not a

442

: 00:22:15

big morning event thing, but it was,

was doing, um, was doing basically

443

: 00:22:19

the state of the state of employment

in the state of New Hampshire.

444

: 00:22:23

And I had gotten into workforce

development through the, the, the

445

: 00:22:28

fact of being outside of Boston.

446

: 00:22:31

Running a company at the time that

was hiring a lot of high tech people.

447

: 00:22:34

And every time I complain, people would

say, well, go do something about it.

448

: 00:22:37

Okay.

449

: 00:22:38

That's, that's fair.

450

: 00:22:39

Let's go, let's go do something about it.

451

: 00:22:41

And so I ended up in the community

college system because I felt that

452

: 00:22:43

that was one of the places where from

a skills perspective, there was some

453

: 00:22:47

of the most leverage that was, that

was, that was, uh, to be done there.

454

: 00:22:50

Um, so afterwards, uh, Steve came

up and said, Oh, we're doing like

455

: 00:22:54

this thing and this, this, whatever.

456

: 00:22:56

And to be honest, I really

don't remember the pitch.

457

: 00:22:59

I remember it wasn't that great,

but I remember Steve and like,

458

: 00:23:03

Oh, this guy, this guy really

wants to like climb up a wall.

459

: 00:23:06

That's going to lead to nowhere.

460

: 00:23:07

Maybe you should do these

other couple of things instead.

461

: 00:23:10

And, uh, we, we kept in touch, uh, and

I'm, I'm being a little pejorative.

462

: 00:23:14

It wasn't that bad, Steve.

463

: 00:23:15

Um, but yeah, it's fair, it's fair.

464

: 00:23:19

It's not completely fair.

465

: 00:23:21

I mean, it's the, it's the iteration

side of, of, of, uh, business.

466

: 00:23:24

Um, we kept in touch and then a couple

of years later, uh, he was, He was

467

: 00:23:30

in the, the kind of the, the new

version of, of what is now a headlamp.

468

: 00:23:33

And, uh, we got excited about it

because it's, it's not, and we had a

469

: 00:23:38

bunch of discussion internally, like

recruiting and people, there's a lot

470

: 00:23:43

of technology that supports that, and

that's all venture funded, but in the

471

: 00:23:46

sense of, of this, this essentially

matching or thinking about how to do.

472

: 00:23:51

Upscaling transition, it's, it, it

does have a bit more of a mission

473

: 00:23:55

driven than it does a, a venture scale

aspect when you first look at it.

474

: 00:23:59

But when you look at some of the

technology that you can develop and

475

: 00:24:03

some of the problems you can actually

solve around, there's a variety

476

: 00:24:07

of, of, of critical infrastructure

areas that people are hiring for.

477

: 00:24:11

I mean, if you ever try to hire

an engineer, a person's doing user

478

: 00:24:15

experience, a semiconductor design,

like they, it's full employment.

479

: 00:24:19

And it is still full employment and.

480

: 00:24:22

You have literally tens of

thousands or hundreds of thousands.

481

: 00:24:26

Steve would probably know the exact

number of people who are transitioning

482

: 00:24:30

out of the military who, who have

had years of, of, of what Steve said.

483

: 00:24:36

Like, Hey, you know what, this year

you're going to be a recruiter.

484

: 00:24:38

Hey, this year, you're going, you're

going to do, um, underwater welding.

485

: 00:24:41

Uh, this year you're going to

go do cyber stuff this year.

486

: 00:24:43

You're going to like, you know,

some of those have a bit more of a

487

: 00:24:46

long term transition, but, you That

mentality of being able to pick

488

: 00:24:50

up, go somewhere, work in a team,

excel, learn a bunch of hard skills.

489

: 00:24:56

That is something that employers

are looking for because their

490

: 00:24:58

needs are also changing.

491

: 00:25:00

So, uh, we, we, we got very excited

about the concept of headlamp of

492

: 00:25:04

thinking about how that, uh, is really a

beachhead into a variety of other things.

493

: 00:25:09

Um, again, looking at this, this need

for satisfying demands of employers

494

: 00:25:14

Mike Gruen: looking for, for talent.

495

: 00:25:17

Jeremy, one thing you said

that I just wanted to pick up

496

: 00:25:19

on the work on a team thing.

497

: 00:25:20

So a long time ago, I was, I joked

that I was the diversity hire at this

498

: 00:25:25

company, uh, Red Owl, because I was

the first non military hire they made.

499

: 00:25:28

So everybody there was about seven,

seven or eight people on the military.

500

: 00:25:33

And one thing that impressed

me beyond anything else was

501

: 00:25:36

just that aspect of teamwork.

502

: 00:25:38

Everybody there, they're on the same team.

503

: 00:25:41

We're fighting, you know, there's

no, there was just such an alignment.

504

: 00:25:44

Um, and.

505

: 00:25:46

And all the, you know, like it just

permeated the culture of the company,

506

: 00:25:50

this get to alignment, get to alignment

quickly, get on that mission, get

507

: 00:25:54

on, you know, and move forward.

508

: 00:25:56

Like.

509

: 00:25:56

Not debate everything

forever and stuff like that.

510

: 00:25:59

And I think that that's, um, such a

value that can't be, you can't put

511

: 00:26:03

enough emphasis on it and something that

so many veterans bring to the table.

512

: 00:26:06

I, I, I loved my time

working with all those guys.

513

: 00:26:09

Uh, I'm still in touch with a lot of them.

514

: 00:26:11

Um, and yeah, it was, it

was a great experience.

515

: 00:26:13

So I think the whole like work as

a team thing cannot be undervalued.

516

: 00:26:16

And I just wanted to underscore

that since you mentioned it.

517

: 00:26:19

Jeremy Hitchcock: Yeah.

518

: 00:26:19

And the soft skills aspect is also

a real, like, that's another one.

519

: 00:26:23

That's, that's a real challenge.

520

: 00:26:24

And I think that's one of the insights

that Steve has is it's not just, oh, okay.

521

: 00:26:28

Like this is my MOS.

522

: 00:26:29

This is like what I did, but that

aspect of, you know, a lot of these

523

: 00:26:33

people are joining when they're in

their, their, their young, their

524

: 00:26:35

youngins, they're, they're in

their teens, maybe early twenties.

525

: 00:26:38

And they're get, they have to, they're

forced to work with people and live with

526

: 00:26:42

people that they don't get to choose.

527

: 00:26:44

And guess what?

528

: 00:26:44

That changes.

529

: 00:26:45

And so you know what you

figure out how to do?

530

: 00:26:47

You figure out how to cut through the

noise and work with people, work with

531

: 00:26:50

people maybe you don't like, but be able

to respect other people's perspective

532

: 00:26:53

because they're coming from different

geographies, different skill sets.

533

: 00:26:56

They're younger than them.

534

: 00:26:57

They're older than them.

535

: 00:26:58

They're different, everything.

536

: 00:27:00

And that is something I think that.

537

: 00:27:02

As companies have continued to evolve,

trying to increase that, that perspective

538

: 00:27:08

is so important because they're,

they're serving usually a global

539

: 00:27:11

audience and, and that aspect of having.

540

: 00:27:14

A, a, a, well, you know, a funnel of,

of, of talented people who are used to

541

: 00:27:20

that and who can excel in that and often

train other people, uh, that's that

542

: 00:27:24

I think is, is, is a priceless thing.

543

: 00:27:25

It's hard to measure, but I think in, in

time that that'll, that'll show itself

544

: 00:27:28

Mike Gruen: much better.

545

: 00:27:30

The adaptability is a key one.

546

: 00:27:31

The other one, uh, as you were

talking, I was reminded, um, is, um,

547

: 00:27:37

I think there's a big misconception

outside of the military that the

548

: 00:27:39

military is a very top down, like.

549

: 00:27:42

Organization where everything is like,

you know, the guys at the bottom don't

550

: 00:27:46

have a lot of decision making capability.

551

: 00:27:48

But the fact of the matter

is, it's not that way at all.

552

: 00:27:50

There's the plan, but

like everything like what?

553

: 00:27:54

Yes, there's some sort of

battle plan or whatever.

554

: 00:27:56

But the fact of the matter is,

it's the guys on the ground.

555

: 00:27:58

They're making a lot of those decisions.

556

: 00:28:00

And And, and are empowered to do so.

557

: 00:28:02

And I think that's another big

misconception outside of the military

558

: 00:28:05

or people in the military that they,

you know, that they just follow

559

: 00:28:08

orders, but that's not the case at all.

560

: 00:28:10

Um, I think that's another one to

this worth dispelling, um, great

561

: 00:28:14

teamwork, adaptability, able to

think on their feet, stuff like that.

562

: 00:28:19

Steve Chang: Now, you know, Mike,

uh, that's what I was saying earlier

563

: 00:28:21

about, you know, the difference of

our military today versus maybe,

564

: 00:28:25

you know, what we read about or

the movies we watched in the past.

565

: 00:28:28

And yeah, sure.

566

: 00:28:29

There's that element of the chain of

command and learning how to follow orders,

567

: 00:28:34

but that that's like basic training.

568

: 00:28:36

You know, that's the first

few months of your life.

569

: 00:28:39

So, you know, cause you are taking

people from across the US, every

570

: 00:28:42

demographic, every, you know,

Every different group, right?

571

: 00:28:46

Because the military is meant to

reflect the population it serves.

572

: 00:28:50

And so, you know, the recruiters are

out there in every community and.

573

: 00:28:53

And you bring them all into

training, so you have to figure

574

: 00:28:56

out how to turn it, turn them into

a team, get them to work together.

575

: 00:28:59

But then, you know, once you get out

there and you're into the force, I

576

: 00:29:03

mean, especially if you're overseas

and you're working operations, you talk

577

: 00:29:07

about the strategic corporal, right?

578

: 00:29:09

It's these young people have

to make these decisions.

579

: 00:29:12

And because of the way the world is.

580

: 00:29:14

The action of a 18, 19, 20 year

old could have strategic impacts.

581

: 00:29:20

And so you have to train them,

you have to trust them and you

582

: 00:29:23

have to, you know, enable that.

583

: 00:29:25

And, uh, yeah, I can't, I can't say enough

about sort of the quality of the, you

584

: 00:29:31

know, the veterans, you know, the, their

abilities, their soft skills, leadership

585

: 00:29:34

team, all that, um, you know, and it

just depends on, you know, the other

586

: 00:29:39

thing is like veterans aren't monolithic.

587

: 00:29:41

Right.

588

: 00:29:41

It's, uh, You know, they're, they're

just not one group that they, they

589

: 00:29:45

run the entire spectrum of, of

everything, um, you know, in any

590

: 00:29:50

dimension you're thinking about.

591

: 00:29:51

And so, you know, that, that's, that's

been our approach again, not to just

592

: 00:29:55

keep talking about headlight, but.

593

: 00:29:57

You know, like I said, I

can't put a mission down.

594

: 00:29:59

So like, this is, we're going to figure

this thing out, but, um, you know,

595

: 00:30:03

you got to help, uh, each individual.

596

: 00:30:05

Right.

597

: 00:30:06

And so

598

: 00:30:09

we're

599

: 00:30:10

Tim Winkler: here to talk about headlamps.

600

: 00:30:11

So you can keep talking about headlamp.

601

: 00:30:14

I, um, you know, we, we, we run a

tech recruiting company, um, as the

602

: 00:30:20

backbone of our business and, you know,

we, we primarily focus on startups.

603

: 00:30:24

Uh, and, and I think that's such

a, A unique environment, right?

604

: 00:30:28

Because a lot of these skills

that you describe here, it's like,

605

: 00:30:31

um, they, they're really, they,

they coincide with what a lot of

606

: 00:30:34

startups are looking for, right?

607

: 00:30:36

So this, this level of scrappiness,

this ability to kind of, Mike, you

608

: 00:30:40

alluded to it, like, um, almost

like being autonomous, right?

609

: 00:30:43

Like, you know, it can't be handheld.

610

: 00:30:45

You can't be babysat all day.

611

: 00:30:46

Like, you know, trust that you'll

be able to go out there and make

612

: 00:30:49

decisions and, um, and, and, you

know, Uh, adaptability, right?

613

: 00:30:53

Of course, like, you know,

it's kind of ever changing.

614

: 00:30:55

It's, it's growing, like, how are you

going to multitask and wear multiple hats?

615

: 00:30:59

So, um, I'm curious to know from on

skill bridge on skill bridge side, you

616

: 00:31:04

know, on the employer side of things, do

you find trends in the size of company

617

: 00:31:09

that, um, you know, has interest in,

you know, participating and, uh, in

618

: 00:31:14

hiring up, uh, some of these veterans,

or is it truly across the board or

619

: 00:31:19

anything from fortune 500 down to.

620

: 00:31:21

You know, scrappy startups.

621

: 00:31:23

Steve Chang: Yeah.

622

: 00:31:23

So, um, I didn't mention skill bridge

earlier to, um, you know, just quick

623

: 00:31:27

plug on that skill bridge is a D.

624

: 00:31:29

O.

625

: 00:31:29

D.

626

: 00:31:29

program allows service members

in the last 6 months to go.

627

: 00:31:34

Into a place of future employment and

work there while the government pays.

628

: 00:31:39

So they're not unpaid interns.

629

: 00:31:41

You know, their, their salary,

their benefits, all that continues.

630

: 00:31:44

Um, and it just, it's, it's

a great tool to enable.

631

: 00:31:47

And so we, we help

employers, uh, leverage that.

632

: 00:31:50

Um, I mean, we've had companies

that, like, like you described,

633

: 00:31:54

you know, these defense technology,

dual use, uh, startup community.

634

: 00:31:59

Uh, places looking for just, you know,

we need 1 or 2 veterans that, um,

635

: 00:32:04

that can help us, um, break into this

market or, you know, be an end user,

636

: 00:32:09

uh, subject matter expert, you know.

637

: 00:32:11

The amount of technology, by the

way, like that our service members

638

: 00:32:14

have in their hands and that they're

trained on a day to day basis.

639

: 00:32:17

Like, I'm jealous now because

I'm starting to get dated, right?

640

: 00:32:21

Like, there are things that, you know,

guys that in my old units, they have that.

641

: 00:32:26

It's just like, man, that would

have been fantastic a few years ago.

642

: 00:32:28

So, you know, that the level of technical

acumen is incredibly high and with.

643

: 00:32:34

You know, the increase in defense

technology, you know, investment

644

: 00:32:38

going on at least, you know, from the

surface, it looks like that's happening.

645

: 00:32:42

Um, it's a, it's a great fit because

you have all these, you know, young

646

: 00:32:47

people who are hungry with all those

things we talked about, soft skills.

647

: 00:32:52

Um, who have the technical acumen and,

uh, you know, are great fits for the,

648

: 00:32:57

these small companies to the extent,

you know, a lot of them end up becoming

649

: 00:33:00

founders as well to try to solve problems.

650

: 00:33:03

Um, at the same time, you know, uh, we,

we've got firms that we're working with

651

: 00:33:09

that are much larger publicly traded,

you know, fortune 1, 500, maybe, um.

652

: 00:33:14

That just need a workforce, right?

653

: 00:33:17

They're trying to create a pipeline.

654

: 00:33:19

Maybe they're solving some issues.

655

: 00:33:21

So, um, I mean, it's

really available to anyone.

656

: 00:33:25

And, uh, we sort of joke that going

back to the individual thing and and.

657

: 00:33:31

You know, what we're trying to

do from a technology standpoint,

658

: 00:33:33

it's 150, 000 veterans a year.

659

: 00:33:35

Let's say they're interested

in like 300, 000 things.

660

: 00:33:39

You know, so, like, you know, how

do you how do you sort of direct all

661

: 00:33:42

that traffic when, um, you know, each

individual is trying to do their own

662

: 00:33:47

thing and and figure their own way out.

663

: 00:33:49

So, um, you know, some of them are

absolutely interested in, you know,

664

: 00:33:53

working for, you know, This big

corporate job, some of them, uh, we

665

: 00:33:58

found a good sweet spot in, uh, sort

of this middle market private equity.

666

: 00:34:02

I think that's a great spot for

the soft soft skills because,

667

: 00:34:06

uh, these are firms that are.

668

: 00:34:08

They're trying to grow, you know,

most of them or some of them, like,

669

: 00:34:11

they're, um, they're at a certain size

and they've reached that point where.

670

: 00:34:15

They need fresh talent, they need, you

know, people with these leadership skills

671

: 00:34:19

that also, you know, have the drive

and the hunger and all that, uh, to

672

: 00:34:23

come in and, and help drive new growth.

673

: 00:34:25

And so, um, and it's a, it's a spot where

veterans can have an outsize impact.

674

: 00:34:30

You know, they get plugged

into, like, the, you know,

675

: 00:34:34

the biggest firms out there.

676

: 00:34:35

You're just a cog in the wheel.

677

: 00:34:37

Right.

678

: 00:34:37

And you sort of get consumed by that,

but, you know, that leadership and.

679

: 00:34:42

Management ability, I think comes to

the forefront when you're in a smaller

680

: 00:34:46

environment, you know, still well

resourced, still, you know, growing

681

: 00:34:49

and, you know, not too small, but, um,

you're just not consumed by the machine.

682

: 00:34:54

I guess.

683

: 00:34:56

Tim Winkler: And Jeremy, so with new

north, you know, you all are pretty

684

: 00:34:59

focused on early stage, um, uh, startups,

but, you know, it, it, it seems like

685

: 00:35:05

it's a heavy focus in the national

security related, uh, industry, um,

686

: 00:35:10

probably a lot of dual use, uh, is,

uh, is, is top of mind right now is

687

: 00:35:15

what we're seeing as well, but I'm

curious on your, on your side of things,

688

: 00:35:19

you know, um, With maybe any sort of

like advisory or input that goes into

689

: 00:35:26

hiring for some of your portfolio.

690

: 00:35:28

Have you seen any trends for maybe

defense tech focused, uh, companies

691

: 00:35:34

that, that you're working with, you

know, have interest in, in, uh, you

692

: 00:35:38

know, some, some, uh, veterans that,

you know, were end users, right.

693

: 00:35:42

Of some, of, of some very

similar technologies or products

694

: 00:35:45

and have that kind of like.

695

: 00:35:47

You know, empathy on, on what the

product does, uh, I'm curious to hear

696

: 00:35:51

from, you know, you, you've talked to

a lot of, a lot of these companies.

697

: 00:35:54

So have you seen any trends with that?

698

: 00:35:58

Jeremy Hitchcock: Yeah.

699

: 00:35:58

I mean, you, you see a huge demand

for talent in different ways.

700

: 00:36:02

And I think that's, that's something

that, that, that we see and it's

701

: 00:36:04

consistent across, uh, the startup

community and they're, they're

702

: 00:36:08

actively, you, the ones that are hiring.

703

: 00:36:10

So people think about, well,

where do jobs come from?

704

: 00:36:12

Who hires?

705

: 00:36:13

Well, companies hire people.

706

: 00:36:15

And they're more often than

not, the smaller organizations

707

: 00:36:18

who are creating employment.

708

: 00:36:20

Usually big companies, they, they

have a pretty steady state for, for,

709

: 00:36:24

for employment and everybody tries

to match and fill, fill jobs and fill

710

: 00:36:29

requirements, uh, in different ways.

711

: 00:36:31

And so we've seen some of our,

our startups, they, uh, they're,

712

: 00:36:35

they're super excited about the skill

bridge and, and fellowships, uh, a

713

: 00:36:39

company like headlamp can provide.

714

: 00:36:41

We have some who are like, no, no, no.

715

: 00:36:43

I have a bunch of service

people, former service.

716

: 00:36:46

People, I'm a former serviceman or woman

myself, I need to diversify my workforce.

717

: 00:36:50

I don't need to double

down in this, this area.

718

: 00:36:52

Uh, the, the greater question

on, on this dual use aspect,

719

: 00:36:56

uh, is definitely very topical.

720

: 00:36:58

I mean, there's, we, we joked that

there's a little bit of tourism going

721

: 00:37:01

on because it is the new hotness, but

it's, I think a recognition that a

722

: 00:37:06

lot of really interesting innovation

comes from these deep tech teams and.

723

: 00:37:12

Love it or hate it.

724

: 00:37:13

Government is usually one of the

organizations that can take these long

725

: 00:37:17

term bets, whether it's space, whether

it's internet, uh, whether it's, it's,

726

: 00:37:22

it's some, some themes and biotechnical,

uh, studies, uh, you know, think

727

: 00:37:26

about where vaccines have come from.

728

: 00:37:28

It's usually been these long term

programs that have been invested in

729

: 00:37:32

for years and years and years and years

and years, and then there's a bunch of

730

: 00:37:35

smart people who come out and they say,

you know what, we're going to build a

731

: 00:37:37

company around this particular idea.

732

: 00:37:39

We're going to scale it.

733

: 00:37:40

We're going to get a bunch

of venture money, and then

734

: 00:37:41

we're going to go, go public.

735

: 00:37:43

We're going to get acquired.

736

: 00:37:43

We're going to create a bunch of, a bunch

of value, and then we're going to go

737

: 00:37:46

rinse, repeat and go do it, do it again.

738

: 00:37:49

And that I think is a pattern

that we're excited about

739

: 00:37:52

because there is a return to.

740

: 00:37:55

This hard tech environment, not to

say that there isn't more software

741

: 00:37:59

stuff that we can do of information

technology, just transforming things.

742

: 00:38:03

That was an era I grew up in, but

now it's a lot more lab based.

743

: 00:38:07

It's a, it's much more hands on.

744

: 00:38:09

It's software talking to robotic things.

745

: 00:38:11

It's software talking to biologic

things and everything in the middle.

746

: 00:38:15

So people who understand how to use

all of that technology, understand

747

: 00:38:19

how to embed that into, into

business and to integrate value.

748

: 00:38:23

Those are the people that

are going to do well.

749

: 00:38:25

And, and that's, that's, that's where

we, again, going back to the theme on

750

: 00:38:29

flexible team based oriented people who,

okay, you're a mechanical trained person,

751

: 00:38:33

or you're a biology trained person,

or you're a software trained person.

752

: 00:38:38

Cool.

753

: 00:38:38

Let's go, let's go work together.

754

: 00:38:39

Go make this thing happen and,

uh, and see where it goes.

755

: 00:38:44

Yeah, it's, it's

756

: 00:38:45

Tim Winkler: really interesting.

757

: 00:38:45

We're actually, you know, looking to,

uh, have a conversation with, with a

758

: 00:38:50

couple of folks that are dissecting,

you know, a lot of the, the role of

759

: 00:38:55

like product manager is an interesting

role, um, because it really can come

760

: 00:38:59

from so many different backgrounds, but.

761

: 00:39:01

You know, within defense tech, you know,

this idea that, you know, a lot of folks

762

: 00:39:05

say maybe, maybe there's like, Oh, we got

to have that Silicon Valley background.

763

: 00:39:09

I mean, you know, it must've

come from, it was like a Fang

764

: 00:39:12

background, but it's really the

opposite of what you're looking for.

765

: 00:39:16

You're looking for somebody who's,

who's been in the trenches, somebody

766

: 00:39:19

who's been on the front lines and can

truly attest to, to, you know, that

767

: 00:39:25

usability of, of a, of a product, if

that's what you're referring to, like

768

: 00:39:29

a warfighter type of product, but.

769

: 00:39:31

I think it's, it's, it's just something

that maybe is, you know, it's, it's

770

: 00:39:35

misconstrued with what has always been

like the norm or, you know, what you

771

: 00:39:39

associate with great, great talent being

out, you know, in Silicon Valley and not

772

: 00:39:43

to downplay, there's definitely great

talent there, but, um, thinking more

773

: 00:39:47

about the use case of what, what is the

product doing and then transitioning

774

: 00:39:51

that from like folks that are really

mission oriented or operationally

775

: 00:39:55

focused or thing, or these themes that

come up when you're talking about.

776

: 00:39:59

You know, uh, a tech or a product

being in the hands of a war fighter,

777

: 00:40:03

you know, so it's very, very different

than, than, you know, maybe this little

778

: 00:40:07

widget thing that's on an app that,

you know, somebody, somebody else's,

779

: 00:40:11

Jeremy Hitchcock: but just to push on

that, you know, people think warfire

780

: 00:40:14

military, like we're, we're building stuff

to, to like Do kinetic things, things

781

: 00:40:19

that go boom and that, yeah, that's,

that's a, that's a very narrow part

782

: 00:40:23

of the types of things that are there.

783

: 00:40:26

It's, it's logistic systems.

784

: 00:40:27

It's, um, uh, I mean, you, do you think

about all the, the service men and

785

: 00:40:32

women, they eat a lot, so like there's

food stuff, there's nutrition, uh,

786

: 00:40:36

There's, there's tons of technology.

787

: 00:40:39

So a lot of people kind of get, get,

I think themselves into like this box

788

: 00:40:43

where they say, you know what, I'm

just thinking about the kinetic stuff.

789

: 00:40:46

And then this is where that,

again, like Steve Case, Rives of

790

: 00:40:49

the Rests, uh, grew up outside of

Boston doing, doing tech stuff.

791

: 00:40:52

So I was very cognizant that

cool stuff can happen elsewhere.

792

: 00:40:56

It doesn't just happen in like

Silicon Valley or Silicon.

793

: 00:40:59

Whatever, even though Silicon there's,

there's a moniker for Silicon, New

794

: 00:41:03

Hampshire, something, I don't know

what it is, but, uh, Silicon Millyard,

795

: 00:41:07

but you, you have literally a, a

country of, of, of innovators and

796

: 00:41:13

people who build stuff and make things.

797

: 00:41:15

And what, what's also interesting is that.

798

: 00:41:19

The military was used by, by

the U S government to export

799

: 00:41:22

a lot of our expertise.

800

: 00:41:24

So a number of airports, for example,

around the world were constructed by

801

: 00:41:27

the military, you know, army corps

of engineers for as an example.

802

: 00:41:30

And so you go, go to Iceland, guess what?

803

: 00:41:32

You're landing on either a British.

804

: 00:41:34

Manufactured made runway or an

American one, depending upon which,

805

: 00:41:38

which airport you're going to.

806

: 00:41:39

So like, those are the types

of things that are really

807

: 00:41:41

fascinating to think about.

808

: 00:41:42

And in the global nature of, of, of how

we work, that I think is interesting.

809

: 00:41:49

And the last thing I want to get to is

like, everybody thinks, Oh, you need to

810

: 00:41:51

have like this fame background, whatever.

811

: 00:41:53

We literally have one of our

portfolio companies gets out.

812

: 00:41:55

Wants to start a company in, in

aviation safety says, I'm not

813

: 00:42:00

worthy to go start a company.

814

: 00:42:01

I know what I want to do.

815

: 00:42:02

I know what I want to build.

816

: 00:42:04

I know the product.

817

: 00:42:05

I know how to do it.

818

: 00:42:06

So he says, I'm, I need to go,

go get an MBA from fancy school.

819

: 00:42:11

And then I need to go work

at one of those fangs.

820

: 00:42:13

And then I can start a company.

821

: 00:42:15

And I think the advice that, that

the people like Steve and myself

822

: 00:42:18

would have is like, no, no, no.

823

: 00:42:19

Today, go, go start today because

you, you probably can figure it out.

824

: 00:42:23

And when you look at the backgrounds of,

of, of people who have started things,

825

: 00:42:28

they, they point to their experiences.

826

: 00:42:31

And sometimes the training or the

school or the whatever is that, or

827

: 00:42:36

the company they work for is that,

but a lot of times it's, Hey, I met

828

: 00:42:39

this other person and we decided that

we want to go tackle this problem.

829

: 00:42:42

We wanted to solve it.

830

: 00:42:43

We were on this mission together and

let's go, let's go figure it out.

831

: 00:42:47

And those are the best

832

: 00:42:47

Mike Gruen: stories.

833

: 00:42:48

And those are the best founders.

834

: 00:42:49

Yeah.

835

: 00:42:49

I mean, we've had a number of people

on from fangs who've gone off to

836

: 00:42:52

start companies and things like that.

837

: 00:42:53

I think what's interesting is,

um, your experience at that point,

838

: 00:42:57

they've already made it the big fangs.

839

: 00:42:58

They're, they're there.

840

: 00:42:59

They have all of these things, all

these processes that are really

841

: 00:43:02

designed around being who they are.

842

: 00:43:04

These giant things that don't necessarily,

if you weren't there in the early

843

: 00:43:08

days, you don't, you know, you're

not actually getting that benefit

844

: 00:43:12

that you think you're going to get.

845

: 00:43:13

And I totally agree.

846

: 00:43:14

I think the.

847

: 00:43:14

The experience you're, uh, you know, a

lot of them was, yeah, then we went and

848

: 00:43:18

started our company and we were amazed

at all of the things we didn't have that

849

: 00:43:22

we were just spoiled when we, when we

support teams galore, right, right, right.

850

: 00:43:26

Like, I had, oh, I had a platform team

that was helping all the engineers.

851

: 00:43:28

Like, I didn't like, this is all

stuff that we had to like, figure out.

852

: 00:43:31

And it's like, yeah, it's almost

counterproductive because then you

853

: 00:43:35

start building things like, oh,

well, we had this at such and such.

854

: 00:43:38

So we should start working on that.

855

: 00:43:39

And it's like, no, no, no,

that's just a distraction.

856

: 00:43:41

Figure out how to get

to mission, how to get.

857

: 00:43:44

Your product, get to

value, so on and so forth.

858

: 00:43:46

And so, um, I do think that I tend to

agree the whole, like, go work at some

859

: 00:43:51

large company, it's got some benefits.

860

: 00:43:53

I'm not going to dismiss that, but at the

same time, don't let that be your barrier.

861

: 00:43:58

If you have a good idea, now's the time.

862

: 00:44:02

No, I mean, go ahead.

863

: 00:44:04

Steve Chang: Yeah.

864

: 00:44:04

Tim Winkler: I was just going to

say, Steve, um, you know, you want

865

: 00:44:06

to put a bow on it before we, we

transitioned to the final segment.

866

: 00:44:09

Some, uh, some final words from you.

867

: 00:44:12

Steve Chang: Yeah, I mean, we

hit a lot of great things there.

868

: 00:44:15

I mean, I was just going to keep

riffing on that last point, which is.

869

: 00:44:18

Um, from a founder's perspective, you

know, I, like I went, um, I, I did

870

: 00:44:22

an MBA at Wharton as I was leaving

the military and, you know, great

871

: 00:44:27

education and there's a lot of skills

in there that'll be useful to me.

872

: 00:44:31

But, you know, the things that are

useful to me right now as a founder,

873

: 00:44:34

you know, getting from like negative

three to zero, let alone zero to one.

874

: 00:44:39

Right.

875

: 00:44:39

Um, you know, Jeremy met me at

like negative five, but, um,

876

: 00:44:45

so, but yeah, it's, you know, I think.

877

: 00:44:48

I think there are a lot of lessons

learned, um, in the military, a lot of

878

: 00:44:52

frameworks, a lot of, you know, different

problems that people had to solve that,

879

: 00:44:56

uh, we draw from and, you know, just

trying to amplify that story, right?

880

: 00:45:00

You know, they're every single veterans

sort of got that, um, unique experience

881

: 00:45:05

that they, they drew from that they had.

882

: 00:45:08

Um, and, you know, this big machine

is, is printing a lot of great quality.

883

: 00:45:13

Um, and then they, they put them out

in the real world and they get a lot

884

: 00:45:15

of great experience that, you know, um,

offers unique value to a lot of places.

885

: 00:45:20

And so, you know, we're,

our mission is like all day.

886

: 00:45:23

What I do is just talk to employers

about how to, how to tap into

887

: 00:45:27

that, how to, you know, leverage

it and get the most out of it.

888

: 00:45:30

So.

889

: 00:45:31

Um, you know, I appreciate the chance

to sort of just talk about, you

890

: 00:45:35

know, we, we love veterans, you know,

obviously, you know, I'm, I'm one

891

: 00:45:39

of them, but, you know, it's, it's

gotta be more than just, uh, we hard

892

: 00:45:43

veterans on your website kind of thing.

893

: 00:45:45

This is a, this is a way to win.

894

: 00:45:47

And so.

895

: 00:45:49

Tim Winkler: Yeah, well, appreciate

all the work you're doing for it.

896

: 00:45:52

And, you know, as a, as a fellow

recruiter, God bless you because it is

897

: 00:45:57

not easy dealing with people all day.

898

: 00:45:59

Um, and, uh, you know, it's,

it's, it's really, you know, I,

899

: 00:46:03

I could talk with you for hours.

900

: 00:46:05

I remember on our discovery calls,

it's really fascinated about, you know,

901

: 00:46:07

military recruiting in general and,

you know, the trends of it, right.

902

: 00:46:11

Because, you know, how is the military

perceived and how that changes as the

903

: 00:46:15

global climate's kind of like in a.

904

: 00:46:18

You know, a whirlwind right now, you

know, there's a lot of things that feel

905

: 00:46:21

like they're in disarray, you know, is

that, how's that impacting recruiting,

906

: 00:46:25

you know, is it, are people shying away

or are they, you know, feeling really,

907

: 00:46:29

you know, patriotic about it, you know,

it's, it's a, it's a fascinating space.

908

: 00:46:33

And so taking all of that

experience and how you.

909

: 00:46:37

Transform that into, uh, you

know, corporate recruiting is, uh,

910

: 00:46:41

just, just a really interesting

use case, in my opinion.

911

: 00:46:45

So we'll have to have a, we'll have to

have a, a virtual drink for that one.

912

: 00:46:49

We'll do a virtual drink

and talk more about it.

913

: 00:46:52

Um, with.

914

: 00:46:55

Go ahead.

915

: 00:46:55

Go ahead, Steve.

916

: 00:46:56

With breakfast.

917

: 00:46:57

Yeah.

918

: 00:46:57

Sorry.

919

: 00:46:59

Jeremy, you can bring the pancakes

and the syrup and we'll, we'll

920

: 00:47:02

still, yeah, we'll still do it.

921

: 00:47:04

There is a

922

: 00:47:04

Mike Gruen: maple syrup bourbon out there.

923

: 00:47:06

Tim Winkler: It's true.

924

: 00:47:08

It sounds delicious.

925

: 00:47:10

If it's from New

926

: 00:47:10

Mike Gruen: Hampshire.

927

: 00:47:10

It is

928

: 00:47:10

Tim Winkler: delicious.

929

: 00:47:14

Um, awesome.

930

: 00:47:15

Well, that was a good discussion

and I'm sure there's, you know, a

931

: 00:47:18

lot of followups that we can, that

we can have on the topic, but I do

932

: 00:47:21

want to, Wrap it up and, and kind of

transition us into our final segment.

933

: 00:47:25

Um, the, uh, five second scramble.

934

: 00:47:27

So a couple of quick fun, you know,

rapid fire Q and a questions here.

935

: 00:47:32

Uh, Mike, you're gonna lead it off

to, uh, uh, to Jeremy and then I'll,

936

: 00:47:37

I'll close it out, uh, with Steve.

937

: 00:47:40

Sounds

938

: 00:47:40

Mike Gruen: good.

939

: 00:47:41

All right.

940

: 00:47:41

Uh, you ready, Jeremy?

941

: 00:47:43

I'm ready.

942

: 00:47:44

Let's go.

943

: 00:47:44

All right.

944

: 00:47:45

All right.

945

: 00:47:46

Uh, what's your favorite stage

startup to invest in early stage?

946

: 00:47:52

Uh, any particular reason just quick.

947

: 00:47:55

Oh, cause they can go anywhere.

948

: 00:47:56

You can't predict how

they're going to end.

949

: 00:47:59

Awesome.

950

: 00:48:00

Uh, what's the biggest challenge facing

startup founders, uh, throughout for

951

: 00:48:04

the rest of the year through 2024,

952

: 00:48:07

Jeremy Hitchcock: how fast to go,

uh, go step on the pedal, spend

953

: 00:48:10

a lot or spend a little bit.

954

: 00:48:12

That's, that's tough.

955

: 00:48:15

Mike Gruen: Uh, what's your

favorite part about the culture

956

: 00:48:17

at North, uh, new North ventures?

957

: 00:48:20

Jeremy Hitchcock: Uh, a lot of

things we talked about, team based,

958

: 00:48:23

a lot of different skills, younger,

older, different perspectives,

959

: 00:48:26

constant intellectual challenge.

960

: 00:48:29

Mike Gruen: What's the best piece

of advice you've ever been given?

961

: 00:48:34

Jeremy Hitchcock: Oh man, uh, invest in

your team and let your team support you.

962

: 00:48:39

Like it's, it's

963

: 00:48:40

Mike Gruen: virtuous circle.

964

: 00:48:41

Nice.

965

: 00:48:42

Uh, if you could have a one

hour mentor session with any

966

: 00:48:45

tech giant, who would it be?

967

: 00:48:49

Jeremy Hitchcock: Man,

that one's a tough one.

968

: 00:48:50

Uh, I think of composite sketches so much.

969

: 00:48:53

Um, and there's obviously

the more material people.

970

: 00:48:57

Uh, of, of like your Steve jobs

is in the like, but I'm, I'm, you

971

: 00:49:01

know, the Jim Collins and the,

and the DHH is, uh, of the world.

972

: 00:49:06

I don't know.

973

: 00:49:07

I'd, I'd have, I'd want five

minute, like micro set, micro

974

: 00:49:09

segments with a bunch of people.

975

: 00:49:12

That's awesome.

976

: 00:49:13

Mike Gruen: Um, I like that

you use the word mercurial.

977

: 00:49:15

Uh, I think it's accurate for them.

978

: 00:49:20

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

979

: 00:49:22

Uh, what was your childhood dream job?

980

: 00:49:25

A chemist.

981

: 00:49:27

Awesome.

982

: 00:49:28

Uh, I understand you

have a pilot's license.

983

: 00:49:30

I do.

984

: 00:49:32

What's your favorite airplane to fly?

985

: 00:49:34

Jeremy Hitchcock: Uh, I mean, the one that

you're flying in, they're all different.

986

: 00:49:37

They all have trade offs.

987

: 00:49:38

I love, I love seaplane flying, but

it's, it's, unless it's, uh, unless

988

: 00:49:42

you're going for permission of fun.

989

: 00:49:44

Which is perfectly great.

990

: 00:49:45

Uh, it's, they're not as practical

as they could, as other planes are.

991

: 00:49:51

Tim Winkler: You ever done

a, you know, the barrel roll.

992

: 00:49:53

Is that, is that a thing?

993

: 00:49:54

Uh, that's a thing.

994

: 00:49:55

Yeah.

995

: 00:49:56

Jeremy Hitchcock: I'm

familiar with some aerobatics

996

: 00:50:00

on purpose.

997

: 00:50:04

Favorite airplane I've ever been

in was a, was a P 51 Mustang.

998

: 00:50:07

That

999

: 00:50:07

Mike Gruen: was cool.

: 1000

00:50:08,820 --> 00:50:09,330

Wow.

: 1001

00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:10,000

That's pretty cool.

: 1002

00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:10,420

That's pretty sick.

: 1003

00:50:11,330 --> 00:50:13,980

Uh, what's something you hate

to do, but are really good at

: 1004

00:50:15,770 --> 00:50:16,800

Jeremy Hitchcock: spreadsheets?

: 1005

00:50:16,900 --> 00:50:20,460

I mean, the math, the math

runs a lot of business and, and

: 1006

00:50:20,460 --> 00:50:22,229

you gotta, you gotta represent

: 1007

00:50:23,260 --> 00:50:23,600

Mike Gruen: ice.

: 1008

00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:25,680

That's a solid answer.

: 1009

00:50:26,139 --> 00:50:28,760

Uh, what's a charity or

corporate philanthropy?

: 1010

00:50:30,215 --> 00:50:32,524

Uh,

: 1011

00:50:33,385 --> 00:50:34,855

Jeremy Hitchcock: there's so

many, I mean, people that are

: 1012

00:50:34,855 --> 00:50:36,405

doing, uh, workforce stuff.

: 1013

00:50:36,405 --> 00:50:39,735

So educations are all, uh, five, one

C threes are all not for profits.

: 1014

00:50:39,995 --> 00:50:45,464

Um, third option foundation is, is

a, is a, is a one that we, uh, we

: 1015

00:50:45,464 --> 00:50:47,864

support and care for on our foundation.

: 1016

00:50:47,864 --> 00:50:49,784

I mean, there's, there's a

bunch of, a bunch of good stuff.

: 1017

00:50:51,674 --> 00:50:51,935

Mike Gruen: All right.

: 1018

00:50:51,935 --> 00:50:52,375

Last one.

: 1019

00:50:52,745 --> 00:50:56,105

If you could instantly become an expert

in something, what it would it be?

: 1020

00:50:57,115 --> 00:50:58,115

So this year

: 1021

00:50:58,175 --> 00:51:01,604

Jeremy Hitchcock: I am working

on getting into welding.

: 1022

00:51:02,110 --> 00:51:05,910

And man, that is a

humbling, humbling activity.

: 1023

00:51:05,910 --> 00:51:11,319

I mean, I, you know, five, 10 hours

in and like, Whoa, it's, it's, it's

: 1024

00:51:11,319 --> 00:51:13,960

pretty impressive with the, with like

the stuff on YouTube where you're

: 1025

00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:15,639

watching like, man, that looks good.

: 1026

00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:17,110

And hopefully we'll get there someday.

: 1027

00:51:17,210 --> 00:51:18,119

What are you working on?

: 1028

00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,260

You got a little, little

piece you're working on?

: 1029

00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,960

Yeah, I made a ship, a

little artistic ship.

: 1030

00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:25,790

I'm going to make a fish tank for my kids.

: 1031

00:51:26,430 --> 00:51:30,340

Uh, because my, my oldest and

middle there, uh, uh, son and

: 1032

00:51:30,340 --> 00:51:32,960

daughter, they're, they're, they're

picking up some welding stuff too.

: 1033

00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,269

So we're doing a fish tank first.

: 1034

00:51:34,269 --> 00:51:37,260

And then I think the middle of the

daughter loves different mediums.

: 1035

00:51:37,270 --> 00:51:39,110

So she's going to go,

she's going to be off, off

: 1036

00:51:39,110 --> 00:51:39,630

Mike Gruen: on a tear.

: 1037

00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:41,030

Oh, that's awesome.

: 1038

00:51:42,610 --> 00:51:45,430

Welding is going to be a good skill

to have in the zombie apocalypse.

: 1039

00:51:45,430 --> 00:51:46,050

So, uh,

: 1040

00:51:48,155 --> 00:51:48,285

Tim Winkler: I'm

: 1041

00:51:48,285 --> 00:51:50,605

Jeremy Hitchcock: going to have

electronics flying and welding.

: 1042

00:51:52,365 --> 00:51:54,545

Tim Winkler: Yeah, I'm going to

bunker down with you, Jeremy.

: 1043

00:51:54,715 --> 00:51:55,745

It sounds like you got it.

: 1044

00:51:56,015 --> 00:51:57,085

You got a game plan.

: 1045

00:51:58,044 --> 00:51:59,295

Uh, good stuff.

: 1046

00:51:59,325 --> 00:51:59,704

All right.

: 1047

00:51:59,705 --> 00:52:01,184

Let's, uh, let's close it out.

: 1048

00:52:01,195 --> 00:52:02,014

Steve, are you ready?

: 1049

00:52:02,745 --> 00:52:03,914

Uh, I think so.

: 1050

00:52:03,965 --> 00:52:04,605

Let's go for it.

: 1051

00:52:05,405 --> 00:52:05,715

All right.

: 1052

00:52:05,775 --> 00:52:08,934

Uh, explain headlamp to me

as if I were a five year old.

: 1053

00:52:10,264 --> 00:52:10,674

Steve Chang: We help

: 1054

00:52:10,724 --> 00:52:11,214

Tim Winkler: veterans

: 1055

00:52:11,214 --> 00:52:11,474

Steve Chang: find

: 1056

00:52:11,474 --> 00:52:11,824

Tim Winkler: jobs.

: 1057

00:52:13,785 --> 00:52:16,765

That's simply put, um, what's

your favorite part about being

: 1058

00:52:16,765 --> 00:52:18,905

a founder of your own company?

: 1059

00:52:19,935 --> 00:52:23,774

Steve Chang: Oh, I mean, uh, yeah,

five seconds is not enough time, but,

: 1060

00:52:23,815 --> 00:52:29,385

um, problem solving, you know, like

just being the ability to just be so

: 1061

00:52:29,385 --> 00:52:33,625

mission focused, you know, and, and, you

know, choosing the problem and choosing

: 1062

00:52:33,625 --> 00:52:34,604

the way you're going to solve it.

: 1063

00:52:34,604 --> 00:52:36,945

Like that's just, that's just gold for me.

: 1064

00:52:37,005 --> 00:52:38,125

That's it's great feeling.

: 1065

00:52:39,575 --> 00:52:41,815

Describe the culture at headlamp.

: 1066

00:52:43,215 --> 00:52:49,445

Headlamp is man, uh, you know, I,

I'm, I'm, I'm trained by some great

: 1067

00:52:49,465 --> 00:52:51,475

leaders, uh, from special operations.

: 1068

00:52:51,475 --> 00:52:55,484

And so we're, you know, we've got

a culture of, um, accountability.

: 1069

00:52:55,485 --> 00:52:58,885

We've got a culture of, you know,

decentralized till, till I feel

: 1070

00:52:58,885 --> 00:53:03,715

uncomfortable, um, empowerment, you know,

it's all about, uh, you know, trusting

: 1071

00:53:03,715 --> 00:53:05,425

your teammates and, and empowering them.

: 1072

00:53:05,535 --> 00:53:05,815

So.

: 1073

00:53:06,420 --> 00:53:06,930

That's where we're at.

: 1074

00:53:08,290 --> 00:53:10,250

Tim Winkler: What can folks

be most excited about with

: 1075

00:53:10,250 --> 00:53:12,110

Headlamp in the next 12 months?

: 1076

00:53:13,230 --> 00:53:14,220

Steve Chang: Just massive growth.

: 1077

00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,790

I mean, we're, we're, we're taking

off, um, you know, providing

: 1078

00:53:17,790 --> 00:53:19,709

all sorts of, uh, opportunities.

: 1079

00:53:19,709 --> 00:53:22,939

You know, there'll be some technology

that'll improve things for, you know,

: 1080

00:53:23,270 --> 00:53:27,160

different interfaces, but, um, just

the number of opportunities and the

: 1081

00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:28,500

great stories we'll be creating.

: 1082

00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,910

Tim Winkler: What's one of the greatest

traits that the military built in

: 1083

00:53:32,910 --> 00:53:35,200

you transitioning into civilian life?

: 1084

00:53:36,740 --> 00:53:40,369

Steve Chang: Uh, yeah, for me, you

know, I, this might say something

: 1085

00:53:40,380 --> 00:53:43,540

about my career, but resilience,

like learning how to fail and just

: 1086

00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:46,429

keep on going and pick yourself up.

: 1087

00:53:46,490 --> 00:53:46,800

So,

: 1088

00:53:48,060 --> 00:53:52,630

Tim Winkler: Well said, uh, who is a

mentor in your life that has greatly

: 1089

00:53:52,700 --> 00:53:54,550

influenced your professional career?

: 1090

00:53:56,250 --> 00:53:59,900

Steve Chang: Uh, yeah, I mean, I,

I talked about some of the leaders.

: 1091

00:53:59,900 --> 00:54:06,630

I mean, um, You know, Brian

Fenton, who's, uh, you know,

: 1092

00:54:06,630 --> 00:54:08,830

he's the general at, uh, at U.

: 1093

00:54:08,830 --> 00:54:08,910

S.

: 1094

00:54:08,910 --> 00:54:10,220

Special Operations Command.

: 1095

00:54:10,270 --> 00:54:14,200

Yeah, he's the mentor to so many

folks, but, um, I probably learned

: 1096

00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,039

the most, but I spent most of

my professional life with them.

: 1097

00:54:17,039 --> 00:54:19,579

So learn quite a bit from guys like him.

: 1098

00:54:19,819 --> 00:54:20,730

So it's been great.

: 1099

00:54:20,770 --> 00:54:20,930

Very

: 1100

00:54:20,930 --> 00:54:21,240

Tim Winkler: cool.

: 1101

00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:26,180

What is a, an app on your phone

that you can't live without?

: 1102

00:54:27,460 --> 00:54:30,370

Steve Chang: Uh, the premier

league fantasy, uh, app.

: 1103

00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:35,349

I mean, I'm on there probably more

than anything else, you know, to

: 1104

00:54:35,349 --> 00:54:37,249

include, uh, email and work stuff.

: 1105

00:54:37,250 --> 00:54:40,610

Now, I mean, yeah, that,

that's, that's my, my fun time.

: 1106

00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:42,979

What

: 1107

00:54:42,990 --> 00:54:45,800

Tim Winkler: is the most adventurous

thing that you've ever done?

: 1108

00:54:47,100 --> 00:54:48,330

Steve Chang: Most adventurous thing.

: 1109

00:54:48,330 --> 00:54:52,650

I mean, I like I've done all sorts

of stuff sometimes out of my will.

: 1110

00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:59,980

Um, man, I just love exploring,

you know, um, just not knowing what

: 1111

00:55:00,059 --> 00:55:02,830

where we're headed and where we're

going and not being prepared for it.

: 1112

00:55:02,870 --> 00:55:04,849

You know, just just

figure it out as you go.

: 1113

00:55:04,849 --> 00:55:06,929

So, like, that's I guess that's me.

: 1114

00:55:08,050 --> 00:55:09,249

Have you ever flown with Jeremy?

: 1115

00:55:10,500 --> 00:55:13,910

I have, yeah, you know,

I'm free fall qualified.

: 1116

00:55:13,910 --> 00:55:14,810

So I felt pretty safe.

: 1117

00:55:14,810 --> 00:55:17,959

Tim Winkler: That's

: 1118

00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:18,260

Steve Chang: good to hear.

: 1119

00:55:18,300 --> 00:55:19,015

That was the comfort

: 1120

00:55:19,015 --> 00:55:20,180

Jeremy Hitchcock: level that you had.

: 1121

00:55:20,180 --> 00:55:22,025

Love it.

: 1122

00:55:22,025 --> 00:55:22,947

Tim Winkler: So

: 1123

00:55:22,947 --> 00:55:23,869

Jeremy Hitchcock: fun.

: 1124

00:55:23,870 --> 00:55:25,049

I was up there, you know, I

: 1125

00:55:25,049 --> 00:55:26,480

Tim Winkler: kept it level.

: 1126

00:55:27,460 --> 00:55:28,040

That's great.

: 1127

00:55:28,665 --> 00:55:30,855

What, what is a charity or a

: 1128

00:55:30,855 --> 00:55:32,855

Steve Chang: corporate philanthropy

that's near and dear to you?

: 1129

00:55:33,765 --> 00:55:37,495

Uh, I mean, uh, honor foundation, Jeremy

mentioned that great organization doing

: 1130

00:55:37,495 --> 00:55:41,124

great things for a lot of people in my

old community, uh, you know, serving

: 1131

00:55:41,124 --> 00:55:45,855

special operations, uh, uh, commit

foundations, you know, is another

: 1132

00:55:45,855 --> 00:55:49,295

one out there that, um, you know,

serves the people that I served with.

: 1133

00:55:49,295 --> 00:55:51,594

And so, yeah, always near and dear.

: 1134

00:55:53,105 --> 00:55:57,455

What was your dream

job as a kid dream job?

: 1135

00:55:57,455 --> 00:56:00,965

I mean, actually, there

was a fighter pilot.

: 1136

00:56:01,035 --> 00:56:01,825

I hate to say it.

: 1137

00:56:01,875 --> 00:56:04,315

You know, I wanted to be a

fighter pilot at 1 point.

: 1138

00:56:04,535 --> 00:56:09,125

Uh, yeah, I had a fascination

with model airplanes and, you

: 1139

00:56:09,125 --> 00:56:10,134

know, all that when I was younger.

: 1140

00:56:10,134 --> 00:56:13,955

And then then I wanted to be a physicist

and I did that for a little bit.

: 1141

00:56:13,995 --> 00:56:15,455

Yeah, that's not quite when I was a kid.

: 1142

00:56:15,455 --> 00:56:17,425

I was, you know, going into college, but.

: 1143

00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:19,610

Who knows how things will turn out.

: 1144

00:56:21,470 --> 00:56:21,720

Tim Winkler: All right.

: 1145

00:56:21,720 --> 00:56:23,870

We're going to close

it on a high note here.

: 1146

00:56:23,870 --> 00:56:27,120

What is the worst fashion trend

that you've ever followed?

: 1147

00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:31,490

Steve Chang: Rolling your jeans.

: 1148

00:56:31,630 --> 00:56:33,189

That was like going way back.

: 1149

00:56:33,189 --> 00:56:35,610

That's just like ridiculous,

but we all did it.

: 1150

00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:39,329

It may be, yeah, like it might've made it.

: 1151

00:56:39,459 --> 00:56:39,929

Yeah.

: 1152

00:56:39,969 --> 00:56:40,844

I mean, that's just.

: 1153

00:56:41,755 --> 00:56:42,385

Tim Winkler: Did they call?

: 1154

00:56:42,385 --> 00:56:44,365

Did they call that pegging your jeans?

: 1155

00:56:44,665 --> 00:56:47,930

Is that like when you rolled up it

was like a special way to hold it?

: 1156

00:56:48,175 --> 00:56:48,445

Steve Chang: Yeah.

: 1157

00:56:48,445 --> 00:56:49,225

You had to do it.

: 1158

00:56:49,315 --> 00:56:49,555

Mike Gruen: Yeah.

: 1159

00:56:49,885 --> 00:56:52,735

That might have been the name for it,

but yeah, I don't know that I knew that

: 1160

00:56:52,735 --> 00:56:54,175

at the time that I was doing it either.

: 1161

00:56:54,445 --> 00:56:54,775

Yes.

: 1162

00:56:59,000 --> 00:56:59,810

Tim Winkler: They're all good stuff.

: 1163

00:57:01,270 --> 00:57:02,380

Uh, all right.

: 1164

00:57:02,420 --> 00:57:06,420

Uh, successful, uh, round

of, uh, Q and a thanks guys.

: 1165

00:57:06,420 --> 00:57:09,930

It's, uh, it's been a pleasure having

you all share your, your journey and

: 1166

00:57:09,930 --> 00:57:13,379

your experiences with us and, you

know, fighting for a good cause here

: 1167

00:57:13,380 --> 00:57:15,050

with the, with veterans transitioning.

: 1168

00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:16,840

So thanks for all that you do.

: 1169

00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:18,570

And thanks for joining us on the pod.

: 1170

00:57:19,600 --> 00:57:19,890

Great.

: 1171

00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:20,530

Thanks so much.

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