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Marketing vs Branding vs Advertising
Episode 11st June 2021 • Unf*ck My Business • Unfuck My Business
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"Marketing creates word of mouth but without consistent advertising that tells the market where, when, and for how much; you will miss out on opportunities that only come from the double-tap"

Marketing and Advertising are the primary drivers of brand awareness and sales, but what are they? What's really happening? Which one comes first? How do we implement them? Robyn and Shea tackle the Chicken and Egg of business with insights, humor, and practical advice.

In this episode: Robyn Sayles, Shea Jeffers

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More about Sheahadin "Shea" Jeffers:

Shea is a brand strategist and business catalyst that specializes in connecting the dots between problems, opportunities, and strategy. Owner of Stratgix Consulting and Co-Owner of the Keystone Mastermind Alliance. He provides perspective and context that burns away the "fog of business" and allows businesses to develop and focus on solutions customized for their distinct world. 

Connect with Shea:

Https://www.StraTgixConsulting.com/SJ

LinkedIn: www.LinkedIn.com/SheaJeffers

IG/FB: Stratgix

FB: CatalystToSuccess-Shea Jeffers

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Season Two of Unfuck My Business is sponsored by Seide Realty. If you're moving to Florida, Kathleen and her team will unfuck your real estate experience. Learn more at whystpete.com

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Below is a rough transcript for your convenience. It’s not perfect because we want to spend our time unfucking your business, not unfucking this transcript.

Transcripts

Intro:

Hi, my name is Siobhan and you're watching Disney channel. What? That's not what this is. Fuck. All right. All right. How about this? What's up on fuckers. This is Siobhan Colleen from industry Xplorers. You're listening to unfuck my business. No bullshit advice for business owners who want to be resilient as fuck without any further up. Fuck a doodle do. Here are your hosts.

Robyn Sayles:

Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Unfuck My Business show. I am Robin Sayles and I'm going to be leading the conversation today with one of my favorite people that I get to nerd out with about all things, branding, marketing, advertising, and the impact that that has on your business; my friend, Shea Jeffers. Shea say hello to everybody.

Shea Jeffers:

What's up people how y'all doing today?

Robyn Sayles:

So Shea, we are going to dissect and pull apart what tends to get all clumped together, which is the concept of marketing and advertising. Yeah, and I think, you know, I talk a lot about the, the idea of commoditization. So especially in the branding space, Getting a good solid brand helps you differentiate yourself, set yourself apart from the pack and remove yourself from being potentially commoditized.

So I think specifically about real estate agents, that's my favorite example. There are so many real estate agents that it could be really easy for consumers to go well, all real estate agents do the same thing. And so it's the real estate agent who has to take charge of that narrative and go, no, no, no. We're not all the same. Here's how I'm different.

And so when a marketplace becomes saturated, when a concept becomes overly used, that's when it becomes commoditized. And so I very much feel in the wake of Instagram and influencers, the concept of marketing has been... commoditized, if you will. And people have a sort of general sense of what marketing is, but they tend to lump a lot of things in there.

And they don't realize that there are different facets of marketing. There's different subsets of marketing. And there actually is a hierarchy of branding, marketing, and advertising that need to be deployed at the right place and the right time. And you have the way you sort of like, conceptualize stuff and break it down for people, I really appreciate because you come up with these things that are really easy for people to follow. So I want you to talk through what you've determined and help people understand the hierarchy of branding versus marketing versus advertising.

Shea Jeffers:

Yeah. And this really came from, from the need of like, when I first really stepped from just being designer or creative to actual strategist and helping people craft these things.

So when it gave me a product just to create specific needs, I'm actually fulfilling a specific need, not just giving gobbledygook and the big purse part of that was helping people break down and break away from, oh, you're just a marketing guy or this is, I just want some marketing. And so.

Three tiers. And it starts from the top, which is more focused. And that's where your brand is. If you look through the lens, it's like looking through the lens of a camera you look through the focal lens and the most focal point is in the middle and it just gets broader and broader as you go out. So you go from branding, which is super focused to marketing, which is not as focused, but still specific and in advertising, which is just straight out open to the masses.

So, but branding is all about your identity, strategy and tactics that you implement. Through your marketing, which is about engagement, connecting, developing the conversation because marketing is that one-to-one engagement and that one-to-one engagement can be, you literally with one-to-one person or just with a very select group of individuals and then advertising is about enticing people to you creating more awareness around your product or service giving out information.

So then they have the knowledge. So that when they can engage with a conversation with you, they can truly understand your brand. So it works both equals from broad to, to focus and focus abroad back and forth. And it's all about getting the sale to be honest with you.

Robyn Sayles:

Absolutely. So I was actually just in a conversation yesterday where we were nerding out about the topic of branding and marketing and advertising and sales and how they all should be connected.

And in. Unfortunately in many companies, they operate in separate silos. And so I want to give a quick call out to Heather Campbell who runs DoubleDutch creative in Denver, Heather and I particularly we're nerding out over some concepts and she gave a sentence, which I think sums it up. So clearly she said marketing is the path to the transaction. And so if we use your lens idea there, the advertising is drawing. People in the advertising is getting the attention, but it's the marketing that more intimate, back and forth. That should be the path to the transaction. The thing that makes people go, yes, I need to purchase this particular product or service.

And I don't know about you, but I see it all the time where people start. On the wrong step. How many times does somebody come to you and go, "Well, I'm thinking about doing some Facebook advertising." ...To whom?

Shea Jeffers:

What conversation are you creating? What are you gonna be talking about other than here's a price and here's the product or service.

Robyn Sayles:

I was at a I was at a training once where the guy was talking about digital marketing automation specific and you know, and he, same as us gets those same questions about like Facebook advertising.

And he's like, okay. So here's what you do. If you don't already have a clear conversation with a warm audience in mind for that Facebook advertising, what you want to do is go walk into the bathroom, take your wallet out of your pocket and just dump it out over into the toilet bowl, because that's what you're doing.

It's just flushing your money down the toilet. If you don't truly understand who you're targeting with this Facebook advertising. The other thing I hear all the time is, "oh, I need a logo," or "I need a website," you know? And on our community calls, we have people coming to us for that all the time. Like, "oh, I need a website."

Have you made a sale? Has your product or service been validated at all? Do you know if anybody even wants this, right?

Yeah. So they jump to logo. Well, your pretty logo doesn't mean anything if you, if it doesn't resonate with the audience who actually needs your help and then needs your product and service. So when somebody comes to you, if I was a client, I came to you and I was like, "yes, I need a logo." How do you sort of back somebody through that thinking to get them to start where, you know, they actually need to start?

Shea Jeffers:

Well, I cut to the chase. Very simply. Your brand is not your logo. First and foremost, that is the first, the first thing I always get people to say to understand is the aesthetics of your business does not Trump, the actual quality and engagement of your service. And so it is asking those questions that you, you touched on earlier.

It's like, okay, so. What have you sold? What have you, what have you put out there and gotten feedback on? Because a big aspect of brand development is customer feedback. It's all good and well, to, to, to have an idea in your head of what you want it to look like, but it doesn't matter if that does not actually create a conversation or fulfill a conversation that people are naturally having as they walked on the street in themselves.

So a brand is most effective when somebody has a running dialogue in their head and they see an image. In terms of the aesthetics of your business, they see that image and it connects with that running dialogue. So without understanding that customer and that dialogue that's going on in their head, that conversation that you're trying to create and be a part of.

We will, we will create a placeholder brand, get some feedback and then do this true development afterwards. It, brand development is not a a, a 30 minute. "Hey I slapped together this, this square and this triangle and I made it look pretty. And then now we have a brand that's going to make, thousands and thousands of dollars in sales," ...but you're not saying anything.

Robyn Sayles:

I love when... one of my favorite pet peeves is there's, there's so many services out there that are offering, like, do it yourself, logo creation.

Shea Jeffers:

My inhale exhale. Yes. I was having a chat about the commoditization of brand and and that's another thing that kind of drove my desire to break this down because the conversation was being commoditized.

It was really becoming so overly simplified and, you know, AI driven where, you know, "Oh yea, just go to Wix and, you know, they'll easily match..." Like I cringe at a commercial where it's like, "oh yeah, I want this brand to be more, more organic and natural. So I'm going to bring a mountain in." It's like, No... Organic and natural to who? you know? So to a techie, something that is, that is more of a chemical symbol or whatever could be just as organic and real to them as, you know, some nature, nature, nature feel.

And so it it's really drives me nuts.

Robyn Sayles:

Yeah. Talk to me a little bit about. How marketing and advertising should work together. So if, if marketing is a more intimate, you know, you you've now come into focus, you're in the inner circle. You're thinking about, I think I want to work with this person.

I think I want to buy this product. If that's that type of conversation, then how does that relate to advertising? Being more of the town crier, Bullhorn, like, Hey, we have this thing over here. Where do you see those two things collaborating and working together best and most effective?

Shea Jeffers:

All right. So we always say that the best form of marketing is word of mouth. That's the most that's the most engaging, the most powerful, actual sales driving thing. But the only way to get that is through brand allies. Right? So this, this whole idea of the double tap method, where you have the advertising and marketing working in tandem the madvertising. So like you said, they're they're, they're close to purchasing.

They engage in that marketing conversation with you. But if you are not consistently advertising where you are making a general offer and presenting you, your product or service to the world that it's available at this time at this pricing or at this, and this is how you get it, you'll miss that sale.

Because you will miss the double tap because you only go in one side of the fence is so you're there, having that one-on-one conversation, but they never know when they could buy or when they should buy or how they could buy. And that's what all advertising does is it tells you, Hey, this is on this, like you're driving down the road, right.

I use the restaurant metaphor. So you're driving on the road and you start to get hungry and you see there's tons of restaurants on the side of the road. And you see a bunch of signs. They all have their marketing. They all have their branding because they're different colors and they're different shapes and sizes or whatever. And they have their marketing, which is saying, "Hey, we have food available for you at this particular time." But if they say, "Hey, we are selling two for one burgers." Now you're combining the marketing conversation that went on with the immediate need in advertising. And that's a double-tap.

Shea Jeffers:

Another piece of that is that brand ally in the car with you that says, oh, I want to go to this restaurant because I was there last week and that's the word of mouth.

Robyn Sayles:

And that's how you bring it all together. Folks. Boom. I was trying to think of another way to say it, but I'm just going to use the quote that pops into my head. It's a little controversial and I don't mean it necessarily in the way it was intended, but this is something that I think of as an underlying subtext, especially when you're writing copy and you're, and you're trying to create messages for folks.

You cannot overexplain it.

You get in where, when we're talking about marketing and advertising. So every entrepreneur solopreneurs, small business, that's worried about being repetitive on social media or being repetitive in their marketing. That's what you're supposed to do. Repetition builds reputation, and you cannot overexplain it or over simplify it. Part of this is the experience and so when you talk about that double tap effect, Part of the reason why that's effective is because they've not only told you what they have, but how you can get it.

Shea Jeffers:

Yeah.

Robyn Sayles:

And, and we tend to think that like, oh, people know that they can pull off the highway and go through the drive-through and get our burgers. We just have to tell them they're two for one. No, no, no, no, no, you literally, that's why billboards say get off at exit 27, turn to the right and come through our drive-through because especially when people are in a space, when they're making like a car trip on a highway, you get like zombie brain and you kind of forget how to process things. Things that seem obvious are not always obvious in the moment. And so you, you have to overexplain it. And so the quote that I use all the time, that kind of stays in the back of my head to remind me, to make sure that these messages are simple and are repetitive and do explain is, "Individuals are smart, but people are stupid."

Shea Jeffers:

Yeah.

Robyn Sayles:

And especially when you're in this sort of, you know, There's I'm one of thousands of cars that are driving on the highway. If we continue with your restaurant billboard example. Right. You know what it's like when like all of a sudden you've driven 20 miles and you don't remember the last time you looked at a sign or paid attention to like where you actually are. So just having a billboard that says we've got juicy, delicious hamburgers, isn't enough. Like you literally have to help my brain. Remember how to go purchase a juicy, delicious hamburger and how much it costs. And it's that all sounds ridiculous. But if you take a minute to think about where your customers are and what's happening for them at the moment they encounter that bit of advertising, or by the time they come to you for the more direct marketing, then you'll realize how important it is to be like beyond clear, you cannot oversimplify it. You cannot overexplain it. It's all necessary.

Shea Jeffers:

Without that continuous explanation, that continuous presence. You start to have this roller coaster in your business or, or your sales. And sometimes it's easy to get locked into one or one aspect of these three disciplines of the other. So like, you know, focusing on your branding, but not having the marketing or advertising to maintain your presence and ongoing conversation about your brand or you're focusing on advertising, but you never say anything of substance. So people start to tune out because it's just. It's just noise. It just becomes white noise in the background or your so honed in on your marketing. And you're having a conversation you're so engaged. Like I engage with everybody. I'm so good at engagement and building a community. And then people's like, so what are you selling? Or when can I buy it? So it is making, that's what I'm saying, making sure all these three things are continuously engaged.

Robyn Sayles:

And I think we all I I'm sure you've been there at points in your business as well, but even those of us who do this for a living, like we have to keep learning this stuff as well. So I think about...

Shea Jeffers:

I just recently re-learned.

Robyn Sayles:

Right? So I think about the evolution of my own website. I had this website that looked great and was very clever and people , but here's what would happen. People would come to me and go, "oh, Robin, I love your website. It's so fun, but I'm still not entirely sure what you do." Wrrrrrrt. Like then it's not working.

If you love my website, but you don't understand what I do then my website is broken.

It's not working. It's only performing a part of its job. And so I, you know, to, to reinforce the point I was making just a minute ago, something that I had to learn personally was you have to sacrifice cleverness for clarity. So I had like buttons on my website to schedule a call that would be like, "Launch a call." Cause my business is called Launching Your Success, and like that's actually too clever. People were not sure if they should push the button because they weren't sure what was going to happen when they push the button. Right. And so the button literally has to say, click here to schedule a call. You know, because it said launch a call. What we did is when we started investigating, we realized people thought launch a call meant a phone call was going to dial and start right there in that moment. Yeah. And so that's why they weren't pushing the button. So my cleverness of trying to like tie in all the wording, you know, to my branding was actually causing people to not take an action that they would normally take. And so. Well, too clever, which, you know, go look at my report cards from school and you'll see that's been my problem my whole life. And, and, you know, I still have to keep going, "Okay. Okay. Okay. Wait, what do we really need to say here?" You know, and, and I do think you can balance that too, because there are some brands where you, you do want some of that cleverness and craftiness to be there as part of the messaging and be there as part of the marketing. Or I think about some clients I have where they've cultivated very specific language because of the industry and things that they're in. And I don't just mean jargon, but like there are certain industries where there's a way in which people speak within that community and within that industry. And you want that to be there, but when it comes time to pushing a button, taking an action, you want the cleverness to lead up to the action, but you want the action to be very super clear. "Click here to schedule a call." You know, I can use all my fun, clever language to lead up to that button, but the button needs to be super clear. "Click here to sign up for our email list." Like you have to tell them exactly what's going to happen the minute they click that button. And so it's, it's hard sometimes to turn that mirror back on ourselves and you need that outside help and that outside influence sometimes to, to help you realize where you've overcomplicated things in your own messaging and in your own branding and marketing.

Shea Jeffers:

Very, very true. And I like when you say, you didn't add advertising to that piece. You just said branding and marketing, and you didn't talk about advertising because that clarity is the most important part of advertising. The best jokes have the simplest punchlines.

Robyn Sayles:

Yes.

Shea Jeffers:

She was like one word, three words, and then she did it. And then it wasn't a laugh because that punchline was just everybody understood it. And another thing is making sure that it's accessible properly accessible, making sure that you're projecting that, that message correctly across the whole spectrum. Yeah. Those things.

Robyn Sayles:

And I, you know, we have to remember, you've kind of, you've talked around this, but I think I want to be super clear for people who are listening that like you do have to actually ask for the sale, but it's like, you do have to actually say, "and this is how much it costs to buy." "Do you want to sign up right now?" "I'd love to get you started." "Can you start today?" I could go down a whole rabbit hole about closing techniques from a sales training perspective and a soft close, and a hard close and an assumptive close, and, you know, there's all these different ways that you can approach it. But ideally, it should sound authentic. It should sound natural. It should sound intentional. But we do have to actually ask for the sale and tell people how they can purchase the thing and buy from us. You and I have a mutual friend, Liz , hello Liz.

Shea Jeffers:

I know Liz. She's awesome.

Robyn Sayles:

She at one networking event. She made a very good point, which is reducing the steps and reducing the friction in that sales process. Which it's tied, so if the marketing, if the advertising is leading to the marketing, which is leading to the transaction, leading to the sale. We want to reduce the friction points in that and make it as easy as possible for them to click the button, to buy or to sign up or whatever it is we want them to do. And so she made a very good point, which felt like a punch in the gut at the time, but it has stuck with me, which was. Like you should always be ready to take the sale. Like if we're having a great conversation here in this moment and I want to buy right now, like if I'm ready, I want to buy right now. Don't make me wait. Because my sales process at the time was like, "great. I'm so happy. You're interested. I'll send you an email when I get back to my office and then you have to click the link and then you have to fill out the form and then you can purchase the thing," like, there was like five steps that involved waiting until I got home. And she's like, "no, you need to have the little thing in your bag. You need to plug it into your phone. You need to get my credit card and I need to be able to buy from you right now. Capture the interest in that split second."

Shea Jeffers:

Paypal.me/stratgix STRATGIX. I was like, it's just that simple, like having those links in the email in hand, on hand, ready to go yes.

Robyn Sayles:

You know, I have stuff that I keep on a notes app. And so, maybe I don't have the dongle or on my new phone, the dongle doesn't fit, I would need an adapter. So having a customized link and I go, "Great. I'm so excited. Here, I just texted you the link. You can click it and sign up and complete the purchase right now." Having those things so that the friction is minimized and making the information available, we had, I don't know if you were on that call, but in one of our Tuesday night community calls, we had somebody who was kind of talking us through their new business thing, and we're all like, "Great. Send me a brochure or send me to a website," and she didn't have it. And it turned out that there was a valid reason why she didn't have it, like it was new, new, and that stuff was still being built. But like, if you're going to start talking about it, then you need to be prepared with the things that, you know, people are going to ask for. And so I think she lost interest because so many of us were like, "Send me a one sheet." "Send me a brochure." Send me to a website." And she didn't have anything that she could point us to that was hers. So I think even if it's not a sale directly, just when, when someone's curious and wants to know more, you need to have a place ready to go, to send them to learn more. Yeah. Never be a dead end or never be a, "oh, sure. I'll email that to you when I get back to the office.

Shea Jeffers:

If you, once you, once you have done the right storytelling and engagement and you build up all that energy, that energy, the amount of effort to think about it, the amount of effort it took to build up that momentum you're pushing you're you're, you're grinding and you're you're, you're pushing this rock up the top of this mountain and you get to the top of the mountain finally and say, "Hey, I'm ready," and you don't have anything to, to keep them or, or get over, get them over the cusp. It's immediately rolling back right back down the mountain and usually right over you. So it's, it's, it's definitely a good thing to have it on hand.

Robyn Sayles:

Such a great metaphor. And so we've talked about how our experience particularly has been people not understanding that, you know, you can't jump straight to advertising. You can't even jump straight to marketing. You have to start with the brand. And so I know that I have things that I like. We'll get on a soap box at the drop of the hat and chirp about when it comes to branding. But what are your soap box things like if people take nothing else away from this conversation today, Shay, what's the thing you want them to understand about where they need to start or what their brand needs to start with.

Shea Jeffers:

So, especially if, okay. Let's say we're all in, quote-unquote in business, right? Guess what? There's literally only one YOU in business. So don't forget the you in that. And that is like my primary thing. You need your brand behind your logo need to go beyond the aesthetics. You need to maintain who you are in your organization and what it means, because that trickles down. Whether you think that you're, that you have sales people or whatever in front of you. They all take leadership from you. They all take messaging from you. It all starts from the you. So don't forget the, you make sure that you're distinct, make sure that you are creating contrast. With the world around you, that contrast is what allows you to then be different. So you know, a bunch of pebbles at a beach, you see in a black pebbles, you see the white one or vice versa is whatever, a bunch of pigeons, the pigeon that is oddly colored in some weird way. That's what you see. Robin, her red hair. You see her, it stands out. That, it's the her. It's the "you" in her organization, in her business, in what she does. Don't ever forget that that's the most important part of me. I believe in building a brand.

Robyn Sayles:

Yes. What people listening to this can't see right now is the minute you're like, don't forget you I'm literally like spazzing out over here on my end of the camera. Like yes. Yes. Cannot like enthusiastically support and encourage that enough. And I think. Understanding that it's, it really does start from you. And let's talk about folks who are intrepreneurs for a moment. All of this applies, whether you're running your own business, you're a part of somebody else's small business, or you're a part of a larger machine in a, in a corporate setting. The way to get ahead, the way to get better at whatever it is you're doing is to understand who you are, how you work best, and what is the unique and intrinsic value that only you can provide within that situation? The better you understand that, the better you're going to be at representing your company, at representing the product or service you're trying to sell. So I would say that that bit of advice. Is not only critical, like not just important, it's fucking critical from a brand perspective when you're trying to build a brand for your product, for your business, for your service. But that bit of advice is also applicable in just building your own personal brand within anything that you're doing.

If you're trying to cultivate thought leadership, if you want to get out on the speaking circuit, if you want to be known as the expert for a certain thing, if you want to be the go-to person for something within your organization, if you're trying to pivot from one area of your organization to another, really, truly starting with you and understanding what that value is and what you can contribute is so, so critical.

And then I think what I'll add to that, the other side of that coin is once you're really clear on who you are and how it impacts your brand, understanding why people are drawn to that and why people need that. And so, you know, as Shea said, you're the only you in business and, and I don't care, this is my favorite joke to make.

When I'm, you know, giving speeches and stuff is like, I don't care how weird, subversive, ultra niche, you know, or bizarre your particular specialty is. I can guarantee you there's at least a dozen people on Google right now, looking for exactly who you are and what you do. And the only reason that they haven't found you yet is because you haven't figured out how to clearly explain, "I'm the one who does these things,"

Shea Jeffers:

yeah.

Robyn Sayles:

"I'm the one who can provide this." And so you have to, you know, we've talked about understanding who you're talking to from a marketing and advertising perspective, but I think that starts with the brand and not only understand yourself, but understanding who's naturally going to be drawn to that.

Shea Jeffers:

Yeah.

Robyn Sayles:

Cause it's not, you know, I don't know about you, but like for my brand, my ideal client is not other people. Well, like me, like I'm not working with other people like me, I'm people are coming to me because of these things that I do and have.

Shea Jeffers:

Yeah.

Robyn Sayles:

And I'm, I'm filling a gap or I'm providing something that's not already there.

And so if, if I it's, it's one thing to understand who I am, but then if I don't understand why people would be drawn to that, I'm gonna mark it. I'm going to aim my marketing and advertising in the wrong direction. Right. So I don't want to aim my marketing and advertising towards people like me. I want to aim my marketing and advertising towards the people who are looking for people like me.

Shea Jeffers:

Yes, you want to, you want to have the right people in your viewfinder, kicking it back to the idea of the camera lens and the focal point in all this stuff. You want to have the right scene in your folk in, in your, in focus. Like I love that that point about that, you know, there's at least a dozen people. And to me, I will say there's at least a thousand people and the way this works, because your brand has a subculture and that subculture has another subculture on top of it. So I definitely believe in the whole idea of the thousand community. And developing that organic sense of who you are getting that out to 10 people. And then those 10 people into 10 more people. And now you have a growing and growing from individuals that is focused on a similar shared value, and they want to be part of the community to share the language. I think James was talking about the last time. In guerrilla marketing was shared values, shared language, shared, shared forms of communication.

And that's where you kind of start from in terms of finding those individuals that are not like you, but need your services to fill the gap. Once you understand yourself, you can then take a, take a glimpse at what things you aren't. And then once you understand what you aren't combine those and then find the overlapping areas where you can fit in to, to, to improve those things for other individuals. So I have five forms of people that they can use. It could be an educator. You can, it could be energizer, you can be an engager, a doer, or somebody who likes to put out directions. What you want to do is five things. And me, I'm an educator and an Energizer. I liked following. I like helping supporting causes, and I'm always out educating you. Find those things that you are, and you leverage those strengths. Don't be afraid to leverage your strengths.

Robyn Sayles:

Absolutely leverage your strengths. You know, I'm a big believer in screw your weaknesses, they're weaknesses, for a reason, don't waste your time trying to improve the areas where you're weak. Like no hire somebody find a system, find a software that does those things. If they have to be done in your business. And we all have those things that have to be done in our business, that like, don't float our boat. So be smart about how you leverage your time, because that's going to allow you to do exactly what Shea said, which is leverage your strengths.

So find out the things that you are and the role that you can fulfill for the people who are looking for you and focus on that. And don't waste time trying to figure out how to be better at things that you're not good at.

And, let's bring this back around. Cause something just connected in my head, Shea, let's bring this back around to marketing and advertising.

Shea Jeffers:

Yeah.

Robyn Sayles:

There's a lot of when we go back to the concept of marketing and advertising being heavily and branding, even being heavily commoditized right now, there's a lot of people pitching scripts, pitching funnels, pitching swipe, copy, "Here, use my swipe email copy." "Here, use this funnel that I've already built." "Oh, here, all you need to do is follow this pattern for your email onboarding." What is the biggest problem with that?

Shea Jeffers:

It's not you.

Robyn Sayles:

Yes. Ding ding ding ding ding.

Shea Jeffers:

It, not that you... no, I'm not going to say you can start. Cause if it gets, if it helps you get rid of the blank page problem, that's fine. But you have to then take this, take this stuff and test it and get feedback and get data like we talked about and start to learn your way of speaking. Like you should have, you have your own way of talking. So far in your life, you've gained friends and community by speaking a certain way, by having such a language. Don't diminish that. If you talk with big words, talk with big words, there are people who want that from you. If you talk like, you know, your, your, you're from, you know, you're, you're just a bloke from Australia, talk like that, like, it's just your thing, you know? And it's going to, it's going to resonate with the people that is going to gain the most value from you and the people that you can then generate the most feedback, the most community, the most value, the most connectivity, all have to start speaking your language.

Robyn Sayles:

Yeah. I a thousand percent, you know, and I love the idea of if you are facing that sort of blank page, use these things that are out there abundantly at the moment, but use it as a starting off point. Don't just copy paste and go. Because let me tell you, especially right now, consumers are pretty fucking savvy. And they can smell a formula and they can smell a funnel from a mile away. Like, look, no shade to click funnels, but when you send me to a link, I can tell in about three seconds, if it's ClickFunnels. And so you just like, if you haven't taken the time to customize the fuck out of that and really make it your brand, if I've ever been through ClickFunnels or if I have any familiarity with it, I'm going to sniff out ClickFunnels in about three seconds. And positively or negatively, that's going to impact my impression of you and your brand. If you went to a LinkedIn lead generation course and are copying and pasting their, you know, DM things to send me a DM and LinkedIn, and I've already gotten four of those, you know, from other people who graduated from the same course that you did. Guess what that's going to impact how I view you and your brand, because you can't even fucking take the time to make it sound like you.

Shea Jeffers:

"Hi, Shea. I I've read your profile. And I seen that you're on a, you've had a great journey, just like me. I'm moving to the area and just wanted to connect with you."

I don't even have a journey on my profile. Like, what are you talking about it? Or the we all like the MLM situation where you're walking down the street or you're in a grocery store and it's like, "Hi. So are you in the market for a new income or new opportunities?" "No... I'm not.... I've been down this road. I know exactly what it is going to end. I'm cool. Bye."

Robyn Sayles:

And here's the thing I wish there was a way that I could tell. Cause this is gonna make me sound like an asshole, but I'm going to say it anyways. I wish there was a way that I could tell LinkedIn, like I don't need any more bro-preneur, LinkedIn lead generation people. So please stop showing them my profile as someone that they should connect with. I don't need any more of them. And then I really want to respond to these guys. Like the whole reason you found me proves that I don't need your lead generation bullshit tactics. I showed up on your page, dude.

You're reaching out to me. Clearly my shit is working. I did that drives me crazy. So. I think there's a lot of that. There's a lot of stuff out there that will tell you, you just need to follow this process or follow this formula, or copy it, copy and paste these emails that are guaranteed to work and guaranteed to get you results.

And it is sort of that same MLM philosophy of being a numbers game. And if you want to play a numbers game, great go for it, but just understand that, like everyone, who's not one of the winning numbers in that numbers game now has a shitty impression of you. And I think really kind of, yeah. If you're truly trying to cultivate a brand that you don't want to create any opportunities for that.

You want to be speaking directly to the people who are speaking your same language, who need what you have to say and not just blanketing a whole list of folks and hoping that one person's going to go. "Okay. Sure."

Shea Jeffers:

And that goes with a piece now I've, we've said that advertising goes to the masses and, but that doesn't mean that your message is is as broad as that, you still have to have that connected tissue of who you are and the way that you speak being presented through that advertising message through that marketing conversation, through that branding presence, it is the same tone, the same language that way, when they find that breadcrumb way on the outskirts of your advertising, they can follow it back to you.

Oh, my gosh. I just said you again didn't I?

So bring it that, that, that, that trail has to be consistent all the way through.

Robyn Sayles:

I love it. Clearly, you and I could go on and on and on and on... and on about this forever. And we both have some horror stories that we've touched on a little bit, but I'd love to hear if you could, before we wrap up here, do you have any examples of a success story of like when they came to me, it was like this and here's what we worked through and here's the results that they're getting now. Can you share like a quick case study with us of when you figure out how to do this and how to do it in the right order, this is what can happen.

Shea Jeffers:

Yeah, actually, it was it was a mutual friend and I was happy to hear back that day, took a, the general concept of messaging, of really leaning into their community and what our community means to them and how they speak to that community and making sure that they weren't afraid to share themselves with the community.

They then took that. And over the course of two years doubled their business year after year. So it's the power of showcasing YOU. You will find the returns to be exponential because now people aren't just invested in your product or service, they are invested in, in your, in you on a regular basis. Like now you're in their head on a day to day on a month to month basis. They're thinking of you, they're not just waiting to see the advertisement. They're now brand allies. They're speaking out about you and your organization and what you do, what you're accomplishing, and that's what they did. The next two years, they just really took the time to express themselves, learn more about himself and express it fully.

Robyn Sayles:

And that doubled their revenue.

Shea Jeffers:

Yeah. And I think so many folks out there right now need to hear that because there's so many folks who are thinking, well, I can't share that. You know, I can't truly be myself. If I was truly myself, nobody would want to do business with me.

Robyn Sayles:

Shea Jeffers:

Yeah.

Robyn Sayles:

It's a bit of a paradox, but I think we just have to lean in the more you lean into that paradox, the better it's going to be on behalf of your business. Oh, Shea my friend. Thank you so much. This has been so fun. I love sort of dissecting this. Thank you for crystallizing it in a way that I think people will easily be able to wrap their head around. I love the driving down the highway restaurant billboard analogy. That's going to stick with me in particular, I think it's such a great way to explain the impact of this and how one thing connects to another and I cannot cannot reinforce enough that it all starts with you. You have to really understand who you are, how you add value, how you can be of service to people, the types of people you can be in service to. And then if you really get that right, if you get that core of your brand. And build out your marketing and your advertising from there, that that's when the magic happens. That is when the magic happens.

So if you do nothing else, folks, please. Take some time today to think about where did I start? Did I start at the end? And did I start with advertising? Did I start in the middle? And I start with marketing or did I start with branding? And even if you did start with your branding, is it truly clear? Have you taken the time to really understand who that ideal audience is?

And why they need you specifically. And how can you make your branding, your marketing and your advertising messages speak more clearly to those folks. Take a few minutes today. Think about if you can get clarity in any of those areas. And if you have more questions, you can always email us. We love, love getting questions in from our community here at Unfuck My Business.

So you can email us at WTF@UnfuckMyBusiness.com and we always love dissecting these things on our Tuesday night calls as well. So if you're not already in our Facebook community, click the link that's in the show notes, get your ass in our Facebook community so that we can help you master your marketing along with everything else for your business.

Shea, thank you so much for joining me today and we will see you. Next Tuesday. Bye y'all

Shea Jeffers:

Chow.

Outtro:

Fuck. What are you waiting for? Take what you learned in this episode and do something with it. You'll find all the links and resources we talked about in our show notes for this episode. Go to unfuckmybusiness.com to subscribe to the show.

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