Dr. Lily Chen, DVM, joins Dr. Andy Roark to tackle one of the most frustrating cases in veterinary medicine: the chronic diarrhea dog that just keeps coming back for more metronidazole. From microbiome testing and dysbiosis to fecal transplants and the surprising behavioral changes pets can show after treatment, this episode dives into the growing world of microbiome therapy and what it might mean for chronic enteropathy cases in practice. If you’ve ever felt stuck managing recurring GI disease, this conversation might just give you a new tool for your veterinary toolbox. Gang, let’s get into this episode.

ABOUT OUR GUEST

Dr. Lily Chen, DVM, CVA, IVCCP is the founder of Integrative Pet Wellness Center in Los Angeles and The Unicorn Vet, an education platform helping veterinarians turn microbiome theory into clinical reality.

Through her course, The Magic of Microbiome, Dr. Chen teaches vets how to make FMT and microbiome therapy practical, profitable, and implementable—because the science is solid, but most practitioners don't know where to start. She also hosts My Dog Is Better Than Your Dog podcast and believes the future of veterinary medicine is root-cause healing, not just symptom management.

LINKS

The Unicorn Vet: https://theunicorn.academy/

Dr. Lily Chen on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.lilychen/

Integrative Pet Wellness Center: integrativepet.com

https://vetmed.tamu.edu/gilab/service/assays/canine-microbiota-dysbiosis-index/

Mentioned in this episode:

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dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

Welcome everybody to the Cone

2

of Shame Veterinary podcast.

3

I am your host, Dr.

4

Andy Rourke.

5

Guys, I got a really good episode today.

6

My friend, Dr.

7

Lily Chin is here and we are talking about

fecal transfers and microbiome therapy.

8

guys, I've had a couple guests on

in the past talking about this.

9

It's an area that I'm just getting

more and more interested in.

10

I I think the potential for

leveraging the microbiome to heal

11

patients is really incredible

and it's just fascinating to me.

12

And Lily does a ton with this.

13

she's a really neat

person as I talk about.

14

She is a practice owner, of a practice

that just does a lot of holistic medicine,

15

and this is a big part of what they do.

16

And this is someone who's out there in

practice, Practicing what she preaches.

17

And bring her a case, chronic

diarrhea, it's not getting better.

18

and we talk about what fecal

transplant would look like and

19

what she would do in her practice.

20

And I ask her a bunch of questions almost

as if I was a vet who has not done this

21

himself yet, almost as if, and, um.

22

She's great.

23

she breaks everything down.

24

She explains what she's thinking

and why she's thinking it and

25

how she looks at the cases.

26

I left this feeling really interested in

another potential tool for my toolbox.

27

So anyway, that was very fun.

28

Okay, enough preamble.

29

Let's get into this episode.

30

Kelsey Beth Carpenter: This is your show.

31

We're glad you're here.

32

We want to help you in

your veterinary career.

33

Welcome to the Cone of Shame with Dr.

34

Andy Roark.

35

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

Welcome to the podcast, Dr.

36

Lily Chin.

37

How are you, my friend?

38

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: I am

doing great, Andy, how about you?

39

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

am, I'm doing great,

40

because I'm here with you.

41

I always enjoy you

seeing your smiling face.

42

You and I have been good friends

for many, many years at this point.

43

we really got close after the

pandemic, and so I get to,

44

to see you and, in person, when we travel.

45

You were at the Uncharted, conference

in Orlando recently, and you and I,

46

we talked by phone and so anyway, you

are just someone that I so admire.

47

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: Oh my.

48

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: you.

49

For those who don't know you well,

you're, you are really specialized.

50

you're just such a wonderful person.

51

You are, practicing veterinarian.

52

You are the owner of, integrative

Pet Wellness Center in Los Angeles.

53

And, you are cool.

54

You just do really neat stuff

and you practice medicine that

55

I just look at from the outside

and I'm like, I don't like this.

56

I love your holistic approach to medicine.

57

You just, you are always learning

new things and trying new things

58

and talking about new things.

59

And so anyway, you are just someone who

you have made this practice the way that

60

you want to make it and you practice

the way that you want to practice.

61

And I just.

62

I'm always just leave

inspired when I talk to you.

63

So anyway, I have gushed all, all

over you and I'm sorry about that.

64

But, I really am thrilled

to sit down with you.

65

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: Oh my God.

66

You should know that this whole

journey started because I went

67

to that one uncharted event.

68

From the beginning and that inspired

my whole journey of really following

69

my calling and using my practice

as a sandbox to play with new

70

ideas, and that's been amazing.

71

So thank you, friend.

72

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

for saying that.

73

Okay, so I have a case that I

want to run by you 'cause I think

74

that this is gonna be your jam.

75

And I'm a little bit at the end of, at the

end of my, toolbox, I'm in the back dusty

76

corners of my toolbox looking around.

77

So I have got this, 10-year-old male

neuter German Shepherd named Victor,

78

who, he's about 120, 130 pounds.

79

He's a big dog and he's a diarrhea dog.

80

And he continues to have diarrhea and he's

been treated for diarrhea multiple times.

81

The owners, have tried probiotics

and they just don't want to

82

hear about it really anymore.

83

they just want metronidazole,

but we've done.

84

Metronidazole a couple of times,

and it always makes me feel guilty

85

and I'm trying to be a good steward.

86

But we've, we keep treating

this dog with metronidazole and

87

now he's got diarrhea again.

88

And my first thought was, I'm like,

we, are we gonna add Tys in here?

89

are we doing steroids?

90

And this just feels like a huge mess.

91

And I've heard you talk about

cases like this, and so I wanted to

92

bring this case to you and say, Dr.

93

Lily Chin, how would you treat this?

94

What do you do with this dog?

95

If I'm like, feel like I

wanna, try something new.

96

I think the owners will be up for

trying new things because they, I

97

think they feel like they're doing

the same thing over and over again.

98

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: Yeah, I

feel we see these cases a lot, right?

99

Like they come in for the

same issues and me, okay.

100

Work really well for.

101

A time period, right?

102

And then as you're seeing, it keeps

coming back because there's something

103

happening deep inside the body.

104

And what I've realized is that a lot

of drugs are so good at controlling

105

symptoms, but they're not reversing the

changes that's happening deep inside.

106

And a lot of times that's the

drugs are there to buy sometimes so

107

that we can reverse those changes.

108

If I see this dog, Andy, I would be

reaching for microbiome therapy and

109

I'd be thinking about fecal transplant.

110

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

Okay, so te so tell me about that.

111

So, I, I've talked to, I've had a guest

on before talking about microbiome.

112

I heard about, fecal

113

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: I.

114

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

and I've had a number of guests

115

talk about microbiome therapy.

116

But, my first thought is

you do a lot of this right?

117

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: I do a ton.

118

There's probably.

119

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

how did, how did you say the first

120

time, how were you like, I think

we should do a fecal transplant.

121

what was your decision to

start down this therapy path?

122

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: Actually,

a client brought it to me, a very well

123

educated clients in the human space.

124

She looked up the research of how people

were treating Clostridium difficile.

125

Cases and they were doing it in human

medicine, and she asked me, she's

126

like, is this possible for my dog?

127

It was a very similar scenario of her

dog having diarrhea over and over and

128

would respond to drugs for short term and

it would keep coming back, and she just

129

didn't want to keep going down this cycle.

130

Over and over.

131

So I looked it up at

the time that I started.

132

There were very limited

information, but the client was

133

on board and I wanted to try,

134

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: okay.

135

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

so I like try new things.

136

So at the time you, the protocol was that

you would put the dog under anesthesia

137

and you would prepare basically donor

material, fecal slurry from donor dogs.

138

And you basically put it in like an enema.

139

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: Okay.

140

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: Then

you rotate a dog like sideways, so

141

you would be on right lateral for

10 minutes, left lateral for 10

142

minutes and sternal for 10 minutes.

143

Then you would wake the dog up.

144

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: Okay.

145

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: Amazingly,

this dog that was having diarrhea for

146

months and months and were not really

responding to anything long term.

147

After the second or the third day,

mom told me the diarrhea was gone.

148

was hooked.

149

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

so how many years ago was this?

150

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

Seven or eight years ago?

151

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

eight years ago, you bring the dog

152

in, you put 'em under anesthesia,

and then you, give them basically

153

a, an enema made of, a poop slurry.

154

And then you ju and then you do,

and you flip 'em, you, you flip 'em

155

side sternal and just leave them

under anesthesia for a half an hour.

156

And then you wake 'em up and just, I

157

guess you just send them out the,

like, you're like, I guess we're done.

158

And then you send 'em out the door.

159

Is that what that's like?

160

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

That was like that exactly.

161

I was so skeptical.

162

I was like, I have no idea.

163

I was like, what is this?

164

I just put poop inside the colon.

165

And what, how is this supposed to help?

166

But the, there was already quite a bit

of research on the human side, so I was

167

interested to see how this would work.

168

And when mom called me in two days, she's

like, the diarrhea is completely gone.

169

I have not seen poop this beautiful.

170

For so many months, I

was blown away, Andy.

171

I was thinking, wow,

could this be possible?

172

Could this just be a fluke?

173

But from there I started

trying more patients.

174

I would talk to clients and whoever

was on board and it was the right case.

175

I just kept trying and started

developing my own protocols so dogs

176

don't have to be under anesthesia.

177

'cause I find that to be hard

for many families and many pets.

178

So.

179

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

expensive.

180

And then also, I don't like

having patients under anesthesia

181

if, if I absolutely don't

182

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: Yeah.

183

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

help me understand, like, you

184

think about conditions like this,

why do you think this works?

185

brought us to this space where doing

a fecal transplant fixes the problem?

186

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

I now have a lot more clarity

187

to answer that question.

188

If you asked me seven or eight

years ago, I would be not

189

understanding it as much as I do now.

190

But I've been tracking a lot of microbiome

testing, so we have testing now that will

191

let you find out if a pet's microbiome

health is good or bad really, and.

192

I think it works because you're basically

taking pets with really bad microbiome.

193

Transplanting the good or balanced

or diverse microbiome back into the

194

system allow the body to take it in,

so the system can normalize itself.

195

The root of the issue for many

of these cases is microbiome

196

imbalance or dysbiosis.

197

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

I'm the pet owner, and you say,

198

Andy, your German Shepherd, Victor

has got a bad microbiome, I would

199

say to you, we feed him a good food?

200

Why does he have a bad bio?

201

And so what are the most, what are

the common causes that you see?

202

And maybe you never know, but.

203

in a, German shepherd, that doesn't seem

to have a particularly stressful life.

204

What, where does that,

205

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: Yeah,

206

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

previous antibiotic use?

207

what is that?

208

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: a

lot of, if they do have previous

209

antibiotics use, that can definitely

set them up for microbiome issues.

210

Sometimes just in living in today's world,

dealing with toxins in environmental.

211

stressors that we might not always see.

212

And while diets, we have so

many different diet choices.

213

So diet is a hard thing.

214

Even if a dog gets a really good diet, it

may not be exactly what that body needs

215

to feed the right microbiome, because if

you don't know what microbiome they had

216

to begin with, how would you know what's

the right food to grow or balance out

217

the microbiome that they are lacking?

218

Does that make sense?

219

So that's what I'm seeing a lot of

times, and I do think our modern pets,

220

because microbiome gets passed down from

generations and generations, there's been

221

so many inflammatory triggers and issues

that we've managed with medication, but

222

we have not resolved the root cause.

223

Those things are being passed down.

224

So many pet these days are not born

with the best microbiome to start with,

225

and that may be the biggest issue.

226

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

so I've got Victor here and he is

227

got diarrhea and he is 10 years old

and the owners are up for anything.

228

And let's say that I, I

229

haven't done this before.

230

Let's say that fecal

transplant is new to me.

231

Lily, would you start with microbiome

testing here or would you just say,

232

Hey, let's try it and see if it works.

233

Yeah.

234

If you were me and you didn't have

that experience, would you start

235

with the testing to get some guidance

or do you just throw yourself in?

236

how would you sort of approach that?

237

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: I'll

start with microbiome testing because

238

it will give you a lot of information

and maybe more confidence that you

239

are treating with the right modality.

240

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

I like that.

241

So what

242

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: Yeah.

243

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

look like?

244

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

it's like a fecal test.

245

You just have them drop off poop sample,

like how you run the fecal parasite test,

246

but it goes to very specific labs to run

the microbiome testing and that's it.

247

You just poop.

248

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

which lab do you like?

249

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

I use Texas a and M's.

250

Dysbiosis index a lot, BDI labs

also has a very, very thorough, very

251

good microbiome testing profile.

252

And animal biome also has one that I

really like for profiling the bacteria.

253

They all look at different

things, but I reach for the Texas

254

A MM one as a screening test.

255

The most is the easiest

to understand for me.

256

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

how do I use the information I get

257

back from microbiome screening?

258

do the best job I can if I

go for the fecal transplant.

259

like how does that line up

260

with the test results to, how

I choose my poop, du jour.

261

Like how does, how does

that, how does that happen?

262

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: if you're

using a Texas a and m, they actually make

263

it really easy, at least for me, is that

there is a, there's a good or a bad range.

264

So basically the easy decision is that

if it's in a bad range, reaching for

265

fecal transplant makes a lot of sense.

266

A lot of times you will see that.

267

Animal getting better.

268

Clinically, you will, if you retest,

you should see that number getting

269

better in the, more normal range.

270

If it is in the middle, the grade

zone, then you have to look at

271

that animal and talk to the family.

272

A lot of times I do think if they

have clinical symptoms, it does make

273

sense to go ahead and treat with.

274

Fecal, transplant.

275

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: Okay.

276

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

If it's in a good range, but this

277

animal is having diarrhea and GI

issues, then there's probably a bit

278

more digging that we have to do.

279

'cause the issue is probably somewhere

else that we haven't discovered.

280

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: Okay.

281

Oh, I like that, that, yeah,

that, that makes sense.

282

So when you move into the procedure and

you say, okay, let's say that we're,

283

let's say we're in the bad range.

284

Like just make it easy and just

say, Victor's in the bad range.

285

We've got dysbiosis.

286

We say, okay, we're looking at that.

287

A lot of people, again, haven't done

this walk, walk me through the procedure.

288

Like where does

289

the transplant come from?

290

just, yeah.

291

me the, gimme the walkthrough.

292

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

The easiest thing to reach for,

293

which I would recommend people

to get started there, is just get

294

commercially prepared powder material.

295

So Animal Bio is a company that I

use and they have their own very

296

strict donor selection process

and screening and all of that.

297

And they do sell the powder, basically

fecal powder to veterinary professionals

298

you reconstitute with saline and

basically make what I call the poop.

299

Smoothie or fecal slurry to

your consistency where it's

300

very easily administered.

301

So, and you get your red rubber catheter

and basically administer it like anima,

302

but you want it to be a retention anima.

303

So depending on the size of the

pad, there's usually guidelines

304

on how much to draw up.

305

And administer into the colon area.

306

So imagine your red rubber catheter

going in rectally and as far as you

307

can go for that animal comfortably and

administer the material and just come on.

308

That's it.

309

It's really not hard.

310

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: Okay.

311

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: If

you've taken an erectile temperature

312

or given anima, then I think

it's something anybody can do.

313

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

So you don't, do you roll

314

them around like the old days?

315

Like you

316

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

No, not anymore.

317

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: No.

318

No, there's no rolling.

319

Okay.

320

All right.

321

This is getting like Victor's

130 pounds and I'm not sure

322

he is gonna be okay with me

323

rolling him around after this.

324

okay.

325

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: no.

326

I found that's really not needed.

327

You may have to repeat

the fecal transplant.

328

I think the success lies in having

a protocol that works for that

329

patient in smaller volume, but doing.

330

A few, at least a few sessions, especially

for chronic issues, really is the key

331

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: Okay,

332

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: rather

than large amount under anesthesia.

333

I don't think that's, yeah.

334

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: talk.

335

Talk to me about dosing then.

336

so you're

337

saying, doing smaller amounts more

frequently that, that makes sense to

338

me to trying to imagine in my mind,

repopulating a microbiome and I go,

339

well, it seems some more frequent

dosing as opposed to one event would,

340

would maybe help us get traction.

341

H how do you talk about that?

342

So if you were talking to

ventures owners and they're like,

343

we're on board with this Dr.

344

Chen, like we, we wanna do this.

345

understand what, what's going

on, we're gonna bring 'em in.

346

what expectation would you set as far as

the number of times they're gonna come

347

in, how long they're gonna see results?

348

And then my follow up

question is going to be.

349

how do you know if this, how do you know,

how do you know working and how do you

350

know when it's, when it's not working?

351

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: So

the first conversation I have with

352

the owner is that I tell them that if

we're trying to solve this at the root.

353

and at the root cause basis is

that they have to be prepared.

354

It's not a drug that they can just take

home and give, make the symptoms go away.

355

'cause many of them have

been through that cycle.

356

So I prep them and say,

Hey, we wanna do this.

357

And the reason is that I want to

address what's happening in the body.

358

I want to help the body heal

in a way that you don't have

359

to rely on drugs over and over.

360

Usually I have to see them.

361

Every week or every other week for about

four to eight times what I prep them for.

362

Usually by the second or the third,

they would see a difference already.

363

It's very rare that by the second

or third infusion that people tell

364

me there hasn't been any change.

365

Usually it means that the

diarrhea has gone away.

366

Sometimes after the first

one, it's worked already.

367

And as far as time commitment, if

the team is trained, my team can do

368

this in under five minutes, honestly.

369

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: Yeah.

370

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

So it's very comfortable usually

371

for the family and the pet to

come in and do that minimal prep.

372

Sometimes we make sure that,

okay, if they haven't pooped

373

earlier today, make sure they.

374

Defecated 'cause it does

help to retain the material.

375

And I can usually tell that

they're getting better by their

376

clinical science resolving.

377

But many times what's also surprises me is

people will start to notice other things.

378

Usually it's behavioral things.

379

Because imagine a dog having

diarrhea over and over.

380

It must not be comfortable for them.

381

So people will say, oh my God,

they stopped doing this thing that,

382

whether it's chewing on their paws

or being anxious, not wanting to go

383

out, not wanting to engage, or the

opposite, oh, they picked up this

384

ball that they haven't played with

for a year, or they start doing this

385

thing that I haven't done as a puppy.

386

They start jumping on the bed.

387

They have better energy.

388

They stop itching

389

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

Really

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lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

and they're, yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

stuff that're like, yeah, they stopped.

392

They stopped itching after we did the

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fecal transplants.

394

You get those.

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lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: Yeah.

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dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: So

when you start doing this and you say,

397

let's say that this goes really great, and

so let's say let's, we've done, after the

398

first dose, the owners might be placebo.

399

They're kinda like, ah,

I think I'm feeling good.

400

And then by the second one,

they're like, oh yeah, no, this is,

401

we're definitely making progress.

402

How do you side the duration

of treatment from there, Lily?

403

Do you wait until until signs

are completely resolved?

404

Then you say, great, we're,

I think we're done here.

405

Do you wait until you feel like

you're making real progress?

406

Then you say, we're gonna do two more.

407

how do you kind of make that call?

408

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: So I did.

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refine the process well enough from

seeing so many patients and testing.

410

That eight session is

sort of my magic formula.

411

So if I don't know anything else,

if microbiome was bad and I want

412

to make it good again, I say

eight sessions, then I retest.

413

I retest about two to four

weeks after the eighth session.

414

Then I look at that number and decide

again, do we need to continue or can

415

we carry on with diet adjustments,

supplements and lifestyle changes.

416

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

let's say that we're not making the

417

progress that we wanna make with Victor.

418

And so I said, I was gonna ask

you this earlier, here it is.

419

let's say that we're two weeks in and

we've maybe seen some improvement,

420

but not significant improvement.

421

do you hold the course?

422

At what point do you reassess

and how do you reassess?

423

Where does that look?

424

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: So

two weeks is actually fairly early

425

in terms of reprogramming microbiome.

426

So I usually, at this point, I cheer,

lead and say, Hey, we need to keep going.

427

If you're not seeing a difference,

it means the body needs more.

428

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: Yeah,

429

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

At this point, I say keep going.

430

If it's two weeks in, if we'd done the

whole session and things have not changed.

431

' cause I have not had one case like that.

432

So

433

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: what?

434

I dunno what that was.

435

Me.

436

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

it might be hard.

437

there's a paper that just came

out in JMA a couple months ago.

438

It did show that repeated fecal

transplant decreased the clinical

439

CY of chronic enteropathy.

440

So it was really, when the article came

out, I was like, it was so good to have

441

some validation of things I've been

seeing for the last seven to eight years.

442

But I will say that what I've

also noticed is there are some

443

patients that don't get better to

the point that we hope they would.

444

Many times I find that they have

compounding issues usually because their

445

vitamins or minerals are really off, or

they're carrying a really high toin load,

446

then it's a completely different journey

in detoxing or to replenish their vitamins

447

or minerals in a way that is going

to help bring that back into balance.

448

But there's usually something else

in the body that isn't working.

449

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

Have you tried the oral fecal supplement,

450

transfer system?

451

What, what are your, what's

your impression of that?

452

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: I wanted

that to work so badly because that would

453

make things easier for us and for people.

454

What I would say is that after I've

been doing that for a while, I would

455

keep retesting and there's some

pets, and with the families being

456

so compliant, they would administer

it for three months, six months.

457

Sometimes even a year.

458

I don't see that the microbiome

has shifted in a way that is

459

significantly better than before.

460

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: Okay.

461

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: Not

everybody, sometimes the clinical

462

signs do get better, but when we go

in and retest the microbiome, I don't

463

think the results are long lasting.

464

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038: Okay.

465

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

I think it can help.

466

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

you know, I've talked to people

467

who, swear by it, and they

468

really like it.

469

So I was I was just curious what

the experience was in your hand

470

and why you were still doing the,

the rectally administered approach.

471

But yeah, I talk to different people

about kinda their different preferences.

472

But I always like to know.

473

So anyway, Lily, this

has been hugely helpful.

474

I am honestly sitting here rolling

around the idea of getting my own

475

dog's microbiome tested just because,

he's an interesting character.

476

He licks and itches and I go, maybe this.

477

Worth looking into.

478

So anyway, thank you.

479

Thank you for that.

480

Thank you for sharing your knowledge.

481

where can people find you online

if they're like, this is amazing.

482

I wanna learn more about Dr.

483

Chen.

484

I wanna learn more about just,

around the science and fecal

485

transplant and microbiome health.

486

You're doing a lot of

lectures on this now.

487

tell me where people can

sort of engage with you.

488

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038:

I hang out on Instagram a lot

489

so people can find me at Dr.

490

Lily Chen.

491

They can find me at the Unicorn Vet or my

practice Integrative Pet Wellness Center.

492

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

Outstanding.

493

Lily, thanks for being here guys.

494

Thanks for tuning in everybody.

495

I really appreciate your time.

496

Take care of yourselves, gang.

497

lily-chen_1_02-10-2026_131038: Thank you.

498

dr--andy-roark-_1_02-10-2026_161038:

And that's what I got guys.

499

Thanks for being here.

500

Thanks, Lily, for making time to join us.

501

I hope you guys found this interesting.

502

I just, man, I love medicine.

503

I love the fact that there's new

modalities that we're finding

504

and there's new technologies

and medications and approaches.

505

I just, I'm just.

506

Optimistic and positive about what

we're able to do today that we

507

didn't even think of 30 years ago.

508

And it's just, it's really an exciting

time from a technological standpoint.

509

it's an exciting time to be a

vet and to be in vet medicine.

510

So anyway, this has been really fun, guys.

511

If you liked the episode, if you

enjoyed it, like subscribe, share

512

to all those things, forward

the episode to your friend.

513

If there's other vets, you're like, Hey,

maybe we should try this in our practice.

514

Definitely feel free.

515

Share the love.

516

it's always great to, to have

new people find the show.

517

So anyway, guys, take care, be well.

518

I'll talk to you later on.

519

Bye.