Shownotes
John and Kaylee sit down at SHOT Show with Josh from AR15.com (arfcom) for a candid look at how the largest gun forum online came to be and what it does now. Josh walks through the full history. Before social media, everything lived in forums, and arfcom started as a group of friends who liked owning ARs. It grew out of an email list of roughly a thousand people doing group buys with companies like Rock River Arms and Armalite, then became an actual website so people could communicate. PSA was born on arfcom, and the first Magpul magazine ever sold was sold there. The company was officially founded in 1996 by the Avilas, two brothers. After one of the founders died around 2019, a holding company Josh refers to as Second Adventure Group (2AG), with Pete Brownell on its board, acquired the intellectual property, while the Avilas stayed involved. Josh's paycheck says Brownells, but they give arfcom a long leash to stay unapologetically pro-2A, because that autonomy is what makes the community valuable.
Josh describes the forum as user-generated and largely anonymous, pulling 2 to 3 million unique sessions a month through SEO and live discussion. He pushes back on being called an influencer. The forum members are the voice, not him, and arfcom exists to amplify that voice and connect the community to the industry. The hosts and Josh trade what their real days look like behind the glamour of SHOT Show: early mornings, back-to-back meetings, filming, and networking until 2 a.m., plus the 80-hour weeks that come with caring about the work. Josh shares the personal story that changed his view of the Second Amendment. A drug deal outside his cheap college apartment left his girlfriend in danger, and he realized no knife, jiu jitsu, or pepper spray would have saved them without a firearm. He later spent four years as a police officer in Arlington, Texas, ending in 2021, where watching people unable to protect themselves shaped his belief that the right to bear arms is about sovereignty and not handing the government a monopoly on violence.
The back half turns to advocacy. Kaylee makes the case for why a $25 GOA membership matters. Pooled across millions of members, that money funds real legal action, including suing the ATF, and GOA's finances are transparent through its 990. Josh frames GOA as a mechanism for ordinary people to influence policy the way super PACs do for the wealthy. The hosts and Josh agree litigation moves the needle in a way protest signs do not, but Kaylee adds that grassroots pressure matters too, naming the levels of activism from keyboard warrior to email, phone, postcard, and showing up to testify at a committee or attend GOA's lobby day. They close on how 2020 turned former anti-gun Americans into new gun owners, why the no-compromise position holds the line, and Josh's parting ask to convert at least one person to take the conversation seriously.
Questions this episode answers
How did AR15.com (arfcom) start, and why did it grow out of an email list?
AR15.com began before social media, when firearms discussion lived on forums and a group of friends who liked owning ARs ran group buys with companies like Rock River Arms and Armalite. That email list of roughly a thousand people became a website so the community could actually communicate.
When was AR15.com officially founded and by whom?
AR15.com was officially founded in 1996 by the Avila brothers.
Who owns AR15.com now, and how is Brownells involved?
After one of the founders died around 2019, a holding company Josh calls Second Adventure Group, with Pete Brownell on its board, acquired the intellectual property while the Avilas stayed involved. Josh's paycheck says Brownells, but arfcom keeps a long leash to stay unapologetically pro-Second Amendment.
Why does Josh say arfcom members are not influencers?
Josh pushes back on being called an influencer because the forum is user-generated and largely anonymous, and the members themselves are the voice. He sees arfcom's job as amplifying that community and connecting it to the industry, not following any one personality.
How big is the arfcom forum in terms of monthly traffic?
The forum pulls 2 to 3 million unique sessions a month through SEO and live discussion.
Why should someone pay $25 for a Gun Owners of America membership instead of expecting it to be free?
Pooled across millions of members, a $25 Gun Owners of America membership funds real legal action, including suing the ATF, and GOA's finances are transparent through its 990. Josh frames it as a way for ordinary people to influence policy the way super PACs do for the wealthy.
How does suing the ATF through litigation compare to protesting for changing gun policy?
Josh and the hosts agree litigation moves the needle in a way protest signs do not, with Josh describing it as burying opponents in lawsuits rather than holding a picket sign. Kaylee adds that grassroots pressure still matters alongside the legal fights.
What are the different levels of gun-rights activism a person can take part in?
Kaylee describes a ladder of activism from keyboard warrior up through email, phone calls, and postcards, to showing up in person to testify at a committee or attend Gun Owners of America's lobby day.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Welcome and SHOT Show fatigue
- 00:54 — The history of arfcom and group buys
- 03:38 — Founders, the Avilas, and the Brownells acquisition
- 06:06 — Forums as community, not influencers
- 10:00 — Forum traffic, anonymity, and industry insiders
- 13:53 — No compromise and what a real work day looks like
- 19:31 — SHOT Show mornings and networking until 2 a.m.
- 24:27 — Josh's apartment story and getting into firearms
- 27:31 — Four years as a cop and the 2020 turning point
- 33:03 — GOA as a civilian super PAC
- 34:32 — Why a $25 GOA membership matters
- 36:02 — Litigation versus protest, suing the ATF
- 39:53 — Levels of activism and grassroots pressure
- 43:48 — The Second Amendment as a natural right and sovereignty
- 49:02 — Wrap-up and where to find arfcom
About the guest
Josh handles marketing and management for AR15.com (arfcom), where he has worked for about two years and now runs the brand's YouTube presence. His paycheck is issued by Brownells, and his boss is Paul Stiles. Before arfcom, Josh was a police officer in Arlington, Texas, for four years, ending in 2021, and he was a personal trainer earlier in his early twenties. He is from Texas, is married, has dyslexia, and says he has suffered from PTSD. He describes himself as deeply involved in the firearms space and committed to the no-compromise Second Amendment cause.
Key quotes
"PSA was born on arfcom. The first magpul magazine ever sold was sold on arfcom." — Josh
"they don't follow for me, they don't follow for Andrew who does our news. They are themselves like a voice, if you want to call it that." — Josh
"It's not a full time job. It's like a lifestyle to participate in this space." — Josh
"You can go on our 990 and see all of those things. It's a transparent system." — Kaylee
"It's not a picket sign. It's, I will bury you in litigation until you leave me alone." — Josh
"This is something that the government can't give you. It was not given to you by government." — Kaylee
"If I'm concerned about a systemically oppressive government that has marginalized me and people like me, why on earth would I give them a monopoly on violence over me?" — Josh
Transcripts
Welcome to the State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:We have our friend Josh from arfcomm.
Speaker A:Josh, how are you today?
Speaker B:I'm tired.
Speaker B:I'm excited to be here, but definitely tired.
Speaker B:This is day two for us and this is now probably 26 hours worth of being on camera for two days.
Speaker B:So I'm excited to be here.
Speaker B:I think you guys have a really cool platform and I'm like, I think it's interesting to have more candid conversations because these don't often happen.
Speaker B:Whether it's on the floor or with brands, we're in this kind of fun neutral space that we're hopefully not get ourselves in trouble, but we're going to see we'll have something.
Speaker B:And hopefully Ben doesn't just dox us and get us in trouble with our respective responsible parties.
Speaker B:But I'm excited to be here.
Speaker A:No, I hope he doesn't either.
Speaker B:He's got a lot the pre roll on.
Speaker B:This is saucy.
Speaker A:Well, while we've got you here, let's go ahead and start with the history of arfcomm.
Speaker A:Cause it is a interesting start.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:So arfcom, so it's a forum, it's what most people are gonna know it as if you goog how to fix my AR15 or I have my shotgun doesn't work.
Speaker B:You end up getting a lot of times on the SEO for that.
Speaker B:Arfcom articles or forums basically is what it is.
Speaker B:So for the uninitiated, for you kids that grew up in gen Z and TikTok and all that stuff, before social media existed, everything was in a forum.
Speaker B:And so in a forum just like similar to Reddit, that's probably the best way I could describe it.
Speaker B:All it is is that users, it's all user generated content and where someone will describe their experience with it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B: eren't just like Grandpappy's: Speaker B:It wasn't even a company back then.
Speaker B:It was just a group of friends that liked owning Ars.
Speaker B:They thought I was interested in it and so they went.
Speaker B:And back then it wasn't like the catalogs were still a thing.
Speaker B:Like There was no YouTube, there was no none of this.
Speaker B:You would have to basically go and place an order with a company and say hey, this is the rev, this is the model number I want.
Speaker B:And they go ship it to your ffl and you'd go do it well, it was complicated.
Speaker B:There was no online presence to explain.
Speaker B: Here's a: Speaker B:This is what you go have to do.
Speaker B:So they would do group buys.
Speaker B:You had a lot of companies like Rock River Arms that actually started with a bunch of people.
Speaker B:The group of Arfcom which was just an email.
Speaker B:It was literally an email list of like a thousand people that they would say hey, we're gonna do group buy.
Speaker B:Who wants in on that?
Speaker B:And they approached someone like Rock river or someone like Armalite and they would say, hey, we group of people wanted literally it's what group buys are now Buy Ars for civilians.
Speaker B:And they were like, I guess here's your price point, here's your gun.
Speaker B:From there.
Speaker B:They had so many people involved in that email list.
Speaker B:It was like, well you can't chat because it's a one way thing.
Speaker B:You're like, we kick out an email and then maybe they email you back.
Speaker B:And then now you have to be an intermediary.
Speaker B:Now you have to do all this stuff.
Speaker B:And they're like well this is kind of annoying.
Speaker B:Let's make an actual website.
Speaker B:That was the birth of AR15.com was a place for people to communicate pre Instagram, pre all of this stuff on like, well I bought an upper.
Speaker B:Now what or what's the difference in between an M4, an A2 or any of this kind of stuff.
Speaker B:And then they'd start taking pictures of their builds and things of that nature.
Speaker B:And it grew into more or less what it is today where industry people.
Speaker B:PSA was born on arfcom.
Speaker B:The first magpul magazine ever sold was sold on arfcom.
Speaker B:And so it's.
Speaker B:It's kind of weird when you look at the.
Speaker B:The company itself officially was founded in 96.
Speaker B:They were probably doing that well into the early 90s.
Speaker B:And then when you get to now as Arfcom stands, this is when we'll get into this extra bit of spiciness.
Speaker B:Arfcom.
Speaker B: of the founders what died in: Speaker B:They had if you had and I have a brother that's the same age group away.
Speaker B:And it's like if I started something that was that big of a legacy and that big of a presence in a space that I was there for is like me knowing him personally and I don't want to speak on behalf of him.
Speaker B:I'm sure part of that's he wanted to let go of some of that.
Speaker B:And he wanted to let go of.
Speaker B:There's like, there's just a lot of industry power within that name and within that organization.
Speaker B:He's like, hey, there's still value here.
Speaker B:And I might not have as much heart to want to be involved in the day to day aspects of it, but they wanted to have somebody within that industry that would help still continue to support that and do range days and do stuff like that.
Speaker B:And so effectively, the best way I can explain this is second Adventure group actually is there's like a.
Speaker B:It's like a bank holding company.
Speaker B:And they had.
Speaker B:Pete Brownell himself was a board member on that.
Speaker B:And Pete Brownell is the Mr. Brownell for Brownells.
Speaker B:I think he's the third out of that legacy.
Speaker B:And so they made an acquisition and they purchased the I guess intellectual property that is ar15.com but the Avilas are still part of that Goat boy, as they would be known for those.
Speaker B:If you're an arfcom nerd, he is still definitely there.
Speaker B:Stiles, who is my boss, Paul.
Speaker B:He's getting doxed.
Speaker B:But yeah, so he was really the groundwork of me, hey, let's get on Instagram, let's get on Twitter.
Speaker B:There's now this new generation that's not a forum, right, that like still needs to be interacted with.
Speaker B:And there's like they had to make a YouTube the first year Arfcom came to start doing shot show.
Speaker B:Not to just show up and like bullshit with people.
Speaker B:It was Paul by himself with a camera.
Speaker B:Then he had to go do all of that stuff by himself.
Speaker B:And as.
Speaker B:As Brownells or AS2AG got involved in that stuff and started to basically support it monetarily and say, hey, I want you guys to be able to do more networking.
Speaker B:We got to do gun stock recently in the first time in 20 years.
Speaker B:And it's an event where you get to go out there and hey, if you want to shoot and buy a gun in the same event, here's a place where you can go do it, which is wild.
Speaker B:Like very few places normally you can go range day here, shoot it and be like kind of cool.
Speaker B:I get 10 rounds and I'm gone.
Speaker B:Anyways.
Speaker B:To not get super long winded on the history of it, basically that takes you from an email list of dudes that want to own Ars all the way to the community.
Speaker B:We don't own the forums, they own themselves.
Speaker B:I'd like to describe it.
Speaker B:A lot of people will think of us like influencers.
Speaker B:I Was like, no, they don't follow for me, they don't follow for Andrew who does our news.
Speaker B:They are themselves like a voice, if you want to call it that.
Speaker B:If you look at GOA is a very similar thing.
Speaker B:You're a very non centralized entity of people that have their own local issues or their own interest within this space.
Speaker B:And ARFCOM is a collection of those guys that are fired up enough to participate in and really give to each other as a knowledge base.
Speaker B:So you don't have to rely on a manufacturer or you don't have to rely on really politics and propaganda to still get the information out there.
Speaker B:So that's how we ended up getting involved.
Speaker B:I got brought on about two years ago to do marketing and management and now we run YouTube.
Speaker B:I'm here with you guys doing networking and we're trying to help that community interact more with the industry.
Speaker B:And then if there's industry dollars to be invested, we find a way to leverage that to be beneficial for all of us around.
Speaker B:If I can give you guys a platform with us to go and spread Yalls message, it's just really, really cool.
Speaker B:Same thing for manufacturers, same thing for individuals.
Speaker B:That's kind of in a nutshell what ARFCOM is.
Speaker B:It's kind of complicated, but it's basically what it is.
Speaker B:We're given though we are definitely own my paycheck, says Brownells.
Speaker B:They are HR a lot of stuff that goes on behind the scenes that probably and I don't want to go into too much details but like our lawyer would be like if they had to look at our discord and things of that nature.
Speaker B:But they give us that autonomy because that's what gives us value.
Speaker B:If we weren't allowed to be unapologetically 2A about stuff like, we would lose what makes us valuable to the community as a whole.
Speaker B:And so not to sit there and act like I'm.
Speaker B:I'm sure they'll see this and I'll go get a lecture afterwards about it, but they really do give us a really long leash with that.
Speaker B:I've even had to.
Speaker B:I got a chance actually today.
Speaker B:This is the first time in the two years that I've worked for ARFCOM that I actually met Pete.
Speaker B:Like she's like, hi, your name's on my paycheck.
Speaker B:That's kind of weird.
Speaker B:He was like, hello, who are you again?
Speaker B:I was like, I'm the low person on the totem poll.
Speaker B:But they give us the leash because they're like, you guys are the subject matter Experts on what people are thinking about.
Speaker B:Like not just in the comment section of an Instagram post, but guys that buy own, shoot do competitions are veterans or just single parents with the handgun.
Speaker B:You know, we kind of have a better taste on that because we're not in marketing.
Speaker B:We're not.
Speaker B:I don't have an objective to sell a gun or sell an accessory.
Speaker B:My job's to give a bigger voice to the people that are within that organization.
Speaker B:I've talked enough.
Speaker B:I'm sorry I like machine gunned y', all.
Speaker B:But that, that's arfcom in a nutshell.
Speaker A: e because, you know, you said: Speaker A:But forums back in the day were the way we built our community.
Speaker A:I mean, there has been countless stories of people who have met on these forums and have talked to each other and are friends and make the friendships and they never meet.
Speaker A:Or if they do meet, I mean the.
Speaker A:One of the best forum stories I can think of is the we like shooting guys.
Speaker A:They were all in the forum and now they are the crazy guys who talk and sorry, Sean, love you.
Speaker A:But they all got together.
Speaker A:All of them are friends, all from different parts of the country.
Speaker A:But friendship and firearms brought them together.
Speaker A:And that is a big statement where, you know, we like you said it was catalog snail mail.
Speaker A:Yeah, sure, there's a lot of that now.
Speaker A:It's like, cool, I want this.
Speaker A:And I hit a button.
Speaker A:It arrives in my FFL two days later and I'm picking it up.
Speaker A:You know, the forums is where the grassroots of the firearm industry really and the boom we're seeing now with new gun owners and things really started.
Speaker B:Yeah, what's funny?
Speaker B:And I out them every once in a while that I'll be talking to somebody at a booth and this happens all the time that I'm like, you're a forum guy.
Speaker B:He's like, you'll never find my name.
Speaker B:Like, you'll count as mine.
Speaker B:But I was lucky last year.
Speaker B:I was talking to T. Rex guys and they were like, yeah, I'm on the forums.
Speaker B:I'm not allowed to tell you where, but I'm there every day.
Speaker B:But it's really because it's just a receptacle for knowledge.
Speaker B:I think you guys actually do a really good job of this.
Speaker B:If you guys look at y' all social media that you're like, hey, by the way, nobody's gonna tell you this, but like they're trying to pass a law on your state.
Speaker B:You're like, who has time to look that up?
Speaker B:Who has time to read the statute for it?
Speaker B:Nerds that care, right?
Speaker B:And then like, if you don't have a place to collect that information or even just to be motivated because you can yell, I give the analogy of talking on the radio, right?
Speaker B:I can go pull up a Baofeng and go talk out into the ether.
Speaker B:But unless there's a group of people motivated enough to amplify that message, nobody cares.
Speaker B:You're not going to hear it, even if you're saying something incredibly critical.
Speaker B:And again, what you guys do and what you guys are advocating for is there's multiple attempts, there's very organized, very well funded institutions trying to take this from you.
Speaker B:I'm not saying the end is nigh, but it's walking, it's coming to you.
Speaker B:It has nonprofits, it's got politicians and things of that nature.
Speaker B:I think that like forums are like that.
Speaker B:It's interesting to see how many people we actually influence passively.
Speaker B:We're not grand them by any measure.
Speaker B:We're not going to get the metrics that somebody like that might do.
Speaker B:But we have like, I think it's like 2 or 3 million sessions like a month that are unique.
Speaker B:And that's people.
Speaker B:Either they're landing on there because of SEO or they're actually having a discussion about the saber that's coming out or the weird MP7 thing that's coming out from somebody, or somebody's making a shotgun or whatever that that information's being shared and collected completely anonymously.
Speaker B:Which is the shadiest part about it is like you have no idea how often, if you're talking like part of my friendship, if you're talking trash about a product, you might be talking to the CEO of that company.
Speaker B:If you ever go on our industry partners forum, it'll be the suppressor engineer that you're getting into an argument over baffle geometry or something like that.
Speaker B:And he's like, I actually made it.
Speaker B:Go stay in your lane, bro.
Speaker B:I literally made this thing.
Speaker B:And so that's what's valuable, I guess for us.
Speaker B:But I think definitely as a community as a whole, I think having those places be unadulterated and you're allowed to give a free and honest opinion and you're allowed to say, because even the second amendment looks very different from one person to another.
Speaker B:And I think us trying to find a happy medium on how to support that, I think is Important.
Speaker B:But I think it's probably where the most.
Speaker B:Where we kind of overlap.
Speaker B:And you'll have local groups versus state groups versus nationwide groups that are trying to facilitate that exchange of information.
Speaker A:It's funny you brought up companies being on there.
Speaker A:I remember a few years ago one of the companies got in big trouble because they were talking smack to the people talking smack about their stuff and they just went back and forth.
Speaker A:And it's funny how there's drama for that.
Speaker A:There's drama in the forums.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well.
Speaker B:And most of it you got to imagine like these are very passionate people.
Speaker B:Almost all of us have some level of personal stake in this space.
Speaker B:I could make easily 40 to 50% more for the job that I facilitate for Arfcom doing anything else.
Speaker B:I could pull up marketing manager or business development specialist or whatever.
Speaker B:I could go work for Cisco Systems and make six figures.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Hate my job.
Speaker B:Be wanting to go paint my ceiling red or whatever.
Speaker B:But I get to do this where I'm in a space where I love.
Speaker B:I work 80 hour weeks all the time.
Speaker B:All the time.
Speaker B:And I'm happy to do it.
Speaker B:My wife would wish that I wore.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:But I enjoy doing it.
Speaker B:This is an important space and we're in a privileged position to make an effect on like we can actually move the needle for people.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I think one of the things that you touched on is how the Second Amendment looks different for different people.
Speaker C:And it's not that it's a philosophical difference, although sometimes people do want to compromise.
Speaker C:We're no compromise.
Speaker C:And we are happy to walk you through that education steps to get there.
Speaker C:But it looks very different if you're a competition shooter versus a hunter versus someone who is getting their very first firearm for self defense.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker C:And it's allowing yourself to get educated and grow and be around a community that supports that growth that allows you to really come into the fullness of the Second Amendment community.
Speaker B:You guys are really.
Speaker B:I think it's cool that there's a lot of energy.
Speaker B:Like you can imagine.
Speaker B:Like, what does your day look like?
Speaker B:Like an actual regular day.
Speaker B:Like obviously we're sitting here on the podcast and it's cool and we're at shot show.
Speaker B:It looks very glamorous.
Speaker B:It's really not.
Speaker B:But like, what's your actual day look like?
Speaker A:Kaylee's got like an 80 hour day.
Speaker B:Give me Monday.
Speaker B:Just give me Monday.
Speaker B:I'll stop here.
Speaker B:Random Monday.
Speaker C:Random Monday.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Pull a pluck of Monday for me.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker C:Wake up.
Speaker B:Huh?
Speaker B:What time.
Speaker C:7:30.
Speaker C:Eight.
Speaker B:Okay, 7:30, that's very specific.
Speaker B:When I'm listening.
Speaker C:Well really it's whenever the kid wakes up.
Speaker C:Sure, sure, sure.
Speaker B:But 7:38 you wake up, it kind.
Speaker C:Of dictates the day.
Speaker C:But like 7:30, 8 o', clock, I'm a human at that point.
Speaker C:I'm caffeinated.
Speaker C:We're good.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker C:But yeah, I mean my phone starts ringing Usually around 9:15.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:And it's emails and phone calls and meetings.
Speaker C:Mondays are hard because Mondays are like our staff meeting.
Speaker B:100%.
Speaker B:You got, you have all you got to get all your ducks in a row for the week.
Speaker C:Yes.
Speaker B:So when does that day end?
Speaker C:Oh my gosh, when I go to bed.
Speaker B:This one getting right.
Speaker B:And could you cut it off at 6?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:No, no, hear me out.
Speaker B:Like in general you could say hey, after six my outlook or my email or my Gmail is going to sit there and forward everything to Monday.
Speaker B:It won't open, my inbox won't.
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker B:I'll get to it on Tuesday and every single six o' clock on Monday through Friday I'll get to it.
Speaker B:The next week I'll get to it on again, it's Friday.
Speaker C:The amount of anxiety that caused me to see.
Speaker B:But what I'm getting, the reason I'm getting at that is it's not a financial or it's not a performance thing for you.
Speaker B:It's the more I'm not available to make a difference or move the needle here and it gets kicked.
Speaker B:Things don't get done, plans fall through, less people get involved, we lose capability as an organization to make an effect on our cause.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:80 Hour workweek right there.
Speaker B:And it's really mostly because for me personally, I want to be a good husband.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I want to be present.
Speaker B:My wife has her own interests that are completely unrelated to the second amendment that I like, Hey, I want this to be my one and only marriage, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:I was a cop in another life and like I was very proud to come out of that career with one wife, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:And so like that's important though.
Speaker B:I want to be present for my family.
Speaker B:I want to, I have friends still that aren't gun related.
Speaker B:I like to be there for that stuff.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day, like when you choose to be this involved in this space, like I have my friends give me a hard time all day.
Speaker B:They're like, you get paid to shoot guns and hang out.
Speaker B:And I was like, yes.
Speaker B:But my Mondays, my Monday starts Sunday where it's 2 o' clock in the morning and I'll get a random.
Speaker B:Hey, did you get a chance to go look at this article?
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm looking at it.
Speaker B:I'll go and I'm very lucky.
Speaker B:We're not morning people.
Speaker B:Arfcon people are not morning people.
Speaker B:But like I'll typically work from like 10 to about 1 in the morning easy every single time.
Speaker B:I guarantee you when I leave this I will be on my phone reading comments.
Speaker B:I'll be on my phone looking at the forums.
Speaker B:Is there anything spicy going on?
Speaker B:What's going on in the news, what's going on or whatever.
Speaker B:Does somebody need help?
Speaker B:That's a really cool product.
Speaker B:Let me share that.
Speaker B:Like that that's continuous.
Speaker B:My wife knows, she calls it the other woman.
Speaker B:So I'll be on my phone and she'll see me typing and she's like that's taken a minute.
Speaker B:She's a comment, isn't it?
Speaker B:It's like yeah it's a comment.
Speaker B:I'm addressing comments.
Speaker B:But like that's, that's, it's Sancha is the Spanish word for it.
Speaker B:But it's like the other woman but she jokes with the Sancha.
Speaker B:And I was like yeah, it's the arf comes Sancha and so then she know password on my phone or another.
Speaker B:If I pull up my phone right now, I'm gonna do it right now.
Speaker B:Look at my notifications.
Speaker B:Are you ready?
Speaker B:We're just gonna skim this.
Speaker B:These are all arfcom related notifications.
Speaker A:That's a lot there.
Speaker B:But that's, that's all it is.
Speaker B:I mean that's so that's we, I, I, yeah I might have to bleep it but like we whole ass doing this like it is not a part time gig.
Speaker B:It's not a full time job.
Speaker B:It's like a lifestyle to participate in this space and to really do.
Speaker B:It's a privilege to be here.
Speaker B:And I think a lot of people miss out on that.
Speaker B:It's hard when you compare like I guess influencers like this is how I pay my mortgage is by existing in this space.
Speaker B:Like my, my food gets on the table, the cats get fed and the litter change because you know my truck gets on the fuel from being here.
Speaker B:But like to be in that space you have to, I don't want to say earn it because it's not the same but like you have to take that position with a lot of like care I guess is the best way I could describe it.
Speaker B:Because if we're bad at our job.
Speaker B:Theoretically, the opposition wins or you alienate some of the people that really should be in the space and give it 10 years and now we're like, cool, I get to carry a folding knife, you know what I mean?
Speaker B:Like I got a really good brand of pepper spray.
Speaker B:Like I sure hope I can fend off these 10 guys that are trying to kill me and my wife.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:It's a very different world.
Speaker A:If you like sleep, do not be.
Speaker B:A marketing person in the finance space.
Speaker A:You know, and you brought it up.
Speaker A:You know, a lot of my friends have said you've got the best job ever.
Speaker A:I love my job 100%, I really do.
Speaker A:But let's take this week.
Speaker A:We wake up at 6:30 in the morning.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:We get down.
Speaker C:Must be so nice to be a guy.
Speaker C:I wake up at 6:30 in the morning, be down 7.
Speaker B:I will say this, I'm waking up within like 15 minutes of needing to do something.
Speaker B:It's pretty great.
Speaker B:It's pretty great.
Speaker C:So rude.
Speaker A:Well, I was being generous.
Speaker A:I Woke up at 7:15 this morning.
Speaker B:It was downstairs by 7:30.
Speaker B:To be fair.
Speaker B:To be fair, you look a lot better than we do.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:There's a lot more effort that goes in.
Speaker B:If I put in more effort I'd look better.
Speaker B:But it's easy.
Speaker A:I brush my teeth, I put hair gel in, I make sure I eyes aren't dark with circles.
Speaker A:Grab caffeine, run downstairs and get going.
Speaker A:But a lot of people don't understand is like a normal week of shot show or any event is we're up at 6:30, we're ready to go eat breakfast at 7.
Speaker A:Or if we eat breakfast.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Which is normally like a protein bar and lots of caffeine.
Speaker B:I think I had a Celsius for breakfast.
Speaker A:Yeah, I had a C4 for breakfast.
Speaker B:Right on your dog, bro.
Speaker B:C4 is throwing it back as you're an OG caffeine drinker.
Speaker B:If you're doing C4 like the sugar free Red Bulls.
Speaker B:I was into that in college, you know.
Speaker A:But we were up.
Speaker A:We're running first meetings at 8.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:While we're at the booth at 7:30, 8 o', clock, first meetings at 8.
Speaker A:Next meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting, running, running, running.
Speaker A:Content, filming.
Speaker A:And then you're up until about 2 in the morning because you want to make those connections with people you're trying to network, you're trying to grow the industry and the business and things like that.
Speaker A:But I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I will stay up until 2 in the morning and wake up early every day if I have to to watch the Second Amendment grow, to continue to make the connections of friends.
Speaker A:Kaylee makes fun of me all the time.
Speaker A:She goes, you know everybody.
Speaker A:I'm like, I've just been staying up every night talking to people.
Speaker B:When you're present, they'll know you.
Speaker A:But it's like that at range days, too.
Speaker A:You go to any range day, you're, you're there and people are like, the sales guys will be like, hanging out or they want to go to bed early.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, working.
Speaker A:Sorry, sales guys, we love you.
Speaker A:I do both.
Speaker B:I do marketing and sales.
Speaker B:I feel no sympathy for any of you.
Speaker A:But we're up and we're like, okay, five more minutes and then I'm going to go back to the hotel room.
Speaker B:I'm going to go to lay down.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then five minutes turn into 45 minutes and that 45 minutes turns into two hours.
Speaker A:And because you keep talking to people or you're getting ready to leave and somebody, you know, comes walking through the door.
Speaker A:But we love it.
Speaker A:That's the best part.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's not.
Speaker A:Somebody had told me, and it's an old saying is, it's not work if you love what you do.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:And I love what I do, and Kaylee loves what she does and you love what you do.
Speaker A:And we're very passionate about the Second Amendment and spreading the gospel of the 2A and getting new people in or getting people to help spread our message of no compromise.
Speaker A:And talking to these influencers and talking to the content creators because they want to be called separate things.
Speaker A:We love you all.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:It's a different thing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A: ay and I had three jams on my: Speaker A:How do I fix this?
Speaker B:Lubricated.
Speaker B:Sorry, I did.
Speaker B:Yeah, you're not wrong.
Speaker B:Yeah, you're not wrong.
Speaker A:He's true, though.
Speaker A:But it's, it's funny.
Speaker A:Like, you, you go into these forums, you go on the YouTube comment sections.
Speaker A:You go in there and you talk and you, you spread the word and you go back and forth.
Speaker A:I had, I saw a comment on somebody's video the other day.
Speaker A:They were shooting a handgun in broad daylight with a flashlight on it.
Speaker B:Nice.
Speaker A:And somebody goes, why do you have a flashlight on that?
Speaker A:It's broad daylight and I'm like, well, you see, you know, if the gun set up for home defense and it's got the flashlight you're training with the way it's set up.
Speaker A:And like, no, that's dumb.
Speaker B:I'm like, okay, I guess you uninstall your headlights on your car.
Speaker A:That's exactly what I said.
Speaker B:God bless you.
Speaker B:Yes, God bless you.
Speaker A:But it's like, they're like, well, why don't you just take it off?
Speaker A:And then they're like, well, the red dot makes sense, but the flashlight doesn't.
Speaker A:I'm like, well, you see, you try to explain it.
Speaker A:People are stubborn, but that's why we're a community.
Speaker A:We can go back and forth and talk.
Speaker A:At the end of the day, we're still all fighting for the same thing.
Speaker B:So I think it's interesting and you refer to it as gospel, which I love.
Speaker B:And I'm on the religious predisposition.
Speaker B:I'm a Jesus freak when it comes to that stuff.
Speaker B:However, it's principle based.
Speaker B:And so when you talk about something that's a gospel, it's not a set of feelings or rules or whatever, it's a principle.
Speaker B:Because sometimes it'll run up against unapologetically.
Speaker B:2A is one of the things that we see all the time, but two way, all the way, whatever we want to look at it, that'll eventually run into a wall.
Speaker B:You'll talk about, well, when do felons get their second amendments rights back?
Speaker B:You know, what if somebody was in like a mental emergency or something like that?
Speaker B:And I was when, when I first got into firearms, it's like 21, 22, never owned a gun, didn't grow up with one, none of that stuff.
Speaker B:And I moved out on my own in college.
Speaker B:I had a crappy, I think I paid $300 a month for an apartment, which should tell you everything you know about the apartment.
Speaker B:But I, it's a sketchy place.
Speaker B:And I was, I grew up in a very, like, my parents were incredible, my brother's incredible, my friends growing up, I didn't grow up around drugs.
Speaker B:I didn't grow up around drinking.
Speaker B:Like, I couldn't have asked for like a better childhood.
Speaker B:Very loving person.
Speaker B:I was very optimistic, whatever.
Speaker B:So my girlfriend at the time was like, hey, we're going to do movie night, beat me to my apartment and there's a drug deal going down.
Speaker B:She doesn't know any better, I don't know any better, we're both idiots.
Speaker B:She walks right by a bunch of dudes standing in Front of cars, exchanging gifts, right?
Speaker B:Like in backpacks or whatever.
Speaker B:They see her walking up by herself in this super crappy apartment.
Speaker B:And she shuts the door.
Speaker B:And they start approaching the apartment.
Speaker B:They're starting to look around.
Speaker B:All she's calling 91 1.
Speaker B:She's calling me.
Speaker B:We're all freaking out.
Speaker B:And like an idiot.
Speaker B:I'm like 20, about the age myself here.
Speaker B:This was like 17 years ago, but I was like early 20s.
Speaker B:20, 21, Right?
Speaker B:I'm gonna go do something about it.
Speaker B:I'm much more in shape.
Speaker B:Imagine handsome younger me, right?
Speaker B:Then I'm gonna go and do something about why show up.
Speaker B:And as I'm pulling up, shout out to Denton PD on this one.
Speaker B:Completely on accident.
Speaker B:Happened to roll by as I'm pulling up.
Speaker B:And these eight guys got in their two separate cars and drove off.
Speaker B:Cause they didn't want that smoke from shout out to Denton PD for that one day.
Speaker B:And I sat there.
Speaker B:I was in incredible shape.
Speaker B:I was a personal trainer at the time.
Speaker B:I was in very good shape.
Speaker B:And I was like.
Speaker B:Would have lost that fight in about 10 whole seconds, right?
Speaker B:So I go up there and I have a whole, like, kind of coming to Jesus moment that I was like, no knife, no amount of jiu jitsu, no amount of oc.
Speaker B:I could have run some of these dudes over with my car.
Speaker B:Somebody was gonna get out of the way.
Speaker B:I was eventually gonna wreck my super crappy car.
Speaker B:Cause that's all I can afford, right?
Speaker B:Or it's gonna die on me on the way.
Speaker B: Like, I' think I have the: Speaker B:I'm ready.
Speaker B:Let's do it.
Speaker B:No lube.
Speaker B:And he dies.
Speaker B:But like, that.
Speaker B:That was a serious situation for me.
Speaker B:Went through the whole CHL process, Got my handgun, and I was like, yeah, this all makes sense.
Speaker B:Nothing about that offended me.
Speaker B: Not the: Speaker B:And Texas back then was you had to have a license to conceal carry.
Speaker B:Oh, that seems reasonable, you know.
Speaker B:Oh, there's an education component to this.
Speaker B:That seems reasonable.
Speaker B:And that was my experience.
Speaker B:Did that for like six years.
Speaker B:Decided like an idiot midway through my journey as a young adult that I wanted to be a police officer.
Speaker B:I was a cop in Arlington for four whole years.
Speaker B:That was it.
Speaker B:I had to.
Speaker B:I was a cop during.
Speaker B: I ended it in: Speaker B:And then I came to Arfcom.
Speaker B:God bless him for taking me out of that place.
Speaker B: I got to see: Speaker B:Bricks getting thrown, people's cars getting Torched.
Speaker B:We show up, do all the hero stuff.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker B:Well, I got another fire I gotta go put out.
Speaker B:So all the dudes with guns that are all jacked and doing workout stuff, I had to leave.
Speaker B:And multiple times it crushed me to watch.
Speaker B:Dads, single moms.
Speaker B:Where are y' all going?
Speaker B:That more crime.
Speaker B:Somebody getting shot down the street.
Speaker B:I gotta go work on that.
Speaker B:When are y' all coming back?
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:Do you have a crime that's like, I'm a police officer, I'm not a babysitter.
Speaker B:Like, I can't do this.
Speaker B:And I remember, like, the first couple times I found it annoying.
Speaker B:By the 20th time that happened that year, it was heartbreaking.
Speaker B:I had watched kids die.
Speaker B:I've watched horrible stuff within that career that hurt me more than anything.
Speaker B:It's also stuck with me almost the most because it changed my perspective philosophically on that Second Amendment component.
Speaker B:It's not like, hey, cool, I'm taking my safety into my own hands.
Speaker B:I was like, you don't get to pick whether you can only consent to what you can control is what I always tell people.
Speaker B:That was kind of the mantra that I started to have with people.
Speaker B:And I was like, dude, go get at the time, go get a cho, or, I don't know, go take a class.
Speaker B:Go do something.
Speaker B:I'm gonna take Krav Maga now, dog.
Speaker B:I'm not saying it's not cool, but that's not gonna make a difference.
Speaker B:I was like, I'm a 250 pound man and I by no means think I'm gonna fisticuffs my way out of anything.
Speaker B:I've lost fights, you know, I've lost fights to smaller people than me.
Speaker B:I was like, really and truly and intrinsically, the gospel I think of the Second Amendment is like, you don't really get to pick what happens until you can control the force continuum of what's happening around you.
Speaker B:And really, the only steadfast way to do that is through arms.
Speaker B:It's a weird thing that a lot of people don't like to approach.
Speaker B:But, like, that's at least for us.
Speaker B:Like, that's that gospel.
Speaker B:There's different people that'll swim within that.
Speaker B:There's different people that interact with that space, whether it's competition, shooting, hunting or whatever.
Speaker B:But intrinsically, at least for us, that's the crux of it.
Speaker B:We started off in that space.
Speaker B:Well, if the government could have it, I should.
Speaker B:Because what if I don't agree with what the government's doing?
Speaker B:Or worse, and in that specific situation, my neighbor or the hoard of people that have just come to my apartment complex or the CVS that I'm at or whatever it is.
Speaker B:And I love that messaging and I think that's what gets us fired up to go and be.
Speaker B:I don't want to keep using the religious analogy, but disciples of that gospel and that you're like, you're not going to listen to me the first time.
Speaker B:You might not ever listen to me, but I'm not going to try to give up on that message.
Speaker B:That lets me think like, hey, this is intrinsically.
Speaker B:Until you're a victim of that set of circumstances, you don't understand and you can't.
Speaker B:I didn't truly get it because again, grew up super nice, didn't have to deal with getting my ass kicked in the street ever.
Speaker B:And the second it became real to me or worse, when I saw it become real to other people, I thought I fixed the problem by being a copy.
Speaker B:And I was like, I'm just exacerbating, like almost not exacerbating the issue.
Speaker B:But it almost got demonstrated to me more that I'd be like, well, he's gone.
Speaker B:I can't take him to jail because I can't find him.
Speaker B:He's like, so you're just gonna leave me here at my house?
Speaker B:My, you know, crazy stalker person took a picture of my front door and I was like, I'm coming back for you.
Speaker B:And I was like, I have other crime.
Speaker B:Like I couldn't stay.
Speaker B:It was a very, I don't know, I get fired up about this topic.
Speaker A:Well, it's.
Speaker A:You saw.
Speaker A: So: Speaker A:It was a rough year.
Speaker A:We saw a philosophical change in people's mindset very quickly.
Speaker A:Just like you're talking about that they realized that the police are here to protect you.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:But they can't stay.
Speaker A:They can have other things.
Speaker A:There's limited budgets, limited time that can be there.
Speaker A:And watching the amount of new gun owners that we saw and the amount of people who were ant st staunchly anti gun who were like, I'm never gonna buy a gun, guns are evil.
Speaker A:And their mind shift and their this change in philosophy happened and you see them now taking classes and learning this and taking their, their self protection into their own hands.
Speaker A: nately it took something like: Speaker A:But we saw the Second Amendment community grow so largely in that time that we need now as a second amendment community continue to keep this open arms approach and bring these People in and go, hey, see what happened?
Speaker A:This is how we continue to grow.
Speaker A:Your rights are getting infringed on.
Speaker A:We're seeing this in the people in New Jersey taking a stand in New York, in California, specifically in California.
Speaker A:We won the goc, won the lawsuit to get more guns on the roster.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, we want to see this continue in them to continue the fight and realize that they need organizations like Gun Owners of America who are no compromise and will not give an inch and let that goal post move further and further.
Speaker A:And they need to bring their rights back.
Speaker A:And we're seeing the silent majority finally wake up and go, enough's enough and it's time to fight back.
Speaker B:Well, I think so, y'.
Speaker B:All.
Speaker B:It's, it's interesting.
Speaker B:And I had to have this discussion with somebody actually recently that I talked about.
Speaker B:I talked about political super PACs, right?
Speaker B:And I was like, you got to imagine whether it's.
Speaker B:You're a political organization in its base, right?
Speaker B:And so like if I'm a rich oil baron, right?
Speaker B:And I'm like, hey, leave my oil alone.
Speaker B:What do I do?
Speaker B:I influence politics, right.
Speaker B:And I do that through funds and organizations and my other oil tycoon homies.
Speaker B:And that's not to disparage.
Speaker B:I'm from Texas, so I'm not going to disparage petroleum.
Speaker B:But so, but like generally, like you're a civilian super pac, effectively, like you're like, hey, we collectively.
Speaker B:I could never legislatively on my own, no matter how fervently.
Speaker B:I believe in the second amendment and I have all the training.
Speaker B:I'm a well educated, middle aged man.
Speaker B:I wouldn't stand a chance against malicious prosecution legitimately, I wouldn't.
Speaker B:I also don't represent a big.
Speaker B:I'll never personally, unless I'm got that Elon money ever represent enough influence, whether it's financially or fiscally or politically to push back against a deal office or imagine a senator or whatever it is who have their super PACs.
Speaker B:I think a lot of people will look at organizations like yours and say, well, it's a Ponzi scheme.
Speaker B:Or it's.
Speaker B:They just want political influence.
Speaker B:It's like, no, it's Europe.
Speaker B:Once you.
Speaker B:If I believe in what you believe, you're simply a mechanism for me to influence that in a broader spectrum.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's that amplification of member voices.
Speaker B:That's what I was getting at.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:So everyone, not everyone, many people comment.
Speaker B:Everyone, sorry, you're good, you're good.
Speaker C:But there are people who do say you know, like, why.
Speaker C:Why isn't membership free?
Speaker C:Why should I pay $25?
Speaker B:You're not scared in the game, if not truly.
Speaker B:That's my argumentative Arfcom answer, but I'm listening.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker C:But there is one.
Speaker C:We're a nonprofit.
Speaker C:You want to know what our executive makes?
Speaker C:Guess what?
Speaker C:You can go on our 990 and see all of those things.
Speaker C:It's a transparent system.
Speaker C:You can find out what you want to find out, but what's valuable there is.
Speaker C:$25 Isn't a lot of money.
Speaker C: In: Speaker C:Oh, for $25 anymore.
Speaker B:It depends on how not hungry you are.
Speaker B:But I'm.
Speaker B:No, but, like, as a grown man, I can't go anywhere for $25.
Speaker C:I mean, yes, but, like.
Speaker C:I mean, generally speaking, like, everything is expensive.
Speaker C:It's expensive.
Speaker C:But when your 25 and my 25 and his 25 and millions of people's $25 come together, now all of a sudden, we can sue the atf.
Speaker C:We have the funding that we can do.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, yeah, that's what's like, y' all aren't just making noise.
Speaker B:You're not a fart in the wind.
Speaker B:Like, you're a legitimate threat legally.
Speaker B:To, like, look like.
Speaker B:It's not a picket sign.
Speaker B:It's, I will bury you in litigation until you leave me alone.
Speaker B:I chuckle.
Speaker B:I'm a crusty retired cop, so just leave me alone.
Speaker B:But, like, I dealt with protests a lot, and I was.
Speaker B:The Arlingtons, the Dallas Cowboys are there.
Speaker B:There's a lot of eyeballs there.
Speaker B:But I used to always tell people this.
Speaker B:It was like.
Speaker B:Like, don't get me wrong, God bless America, that you're allowed to have a dissonant voice.
Speaker B:But, like, this doesn't move.
Speaker B:The cows are not going to stop dying because you're on the sidewalk.
Speaker B:You can go to the factory.
Speaker B:The cows will not stop dying if you're passionate about something like that.
Speaker B:And I was like, no amount of, like, I'm sorry for whoever.
Speaker B:I stated this.
Speaker B:Like, no amount of the ATF's gay T shirts are going to stop them from doing what they're doing.
Speaker B:Like, legal litigation is a very different ball game.
Speaker B:Like, once you start hurting pocketbooks or budgets or now they're gonna have to get drug in a court case or a deposition.
Speaker B:And they're like, well, we'll just push it.
Speaker B:You're like, that's fine.
Speaker B:My attorney doesn't care.
Speaker B:My attorney's like, sure, push it.
Speaker B:I'll file another motion.
Speaker B:Keep going.
Speaker B:I'll do this.
Speaker B:Literally, I get paid to do this all day.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker B:I'll get on there and do whatever.
Speaker B:It's a very different.
Speaker B:Again, literally, like, having an actual threat of violence is like.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's not just my thought of knowing I can do something about it.
Speaker B:There is an actual.
Speaker B:But you're armed with legal power, if that's the best way I can describe it.
Speaker B:But you have to have an organization that does that.
Speaker C:You're also armed with your voice.
Speaker C:So you know people.
Speaker C:I think there's this misconception, especially right now with where we're seeing victories in the court, that people believe that the court is the only place to get something done.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah, no, yeah.
Speaker C:When you call your representative, state level, local level, when you comment to the ATF during a comment period, when you are engaging in the political process and you're able to join your voices with others, it makes a tremendous impact.
Speaker C:And even if it doesn't cause the victory immediately, sure, it can give the ground needed to use that legal.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You're planting the seeds.
Speaker B:You're trying to sow later on, or at the very least, you're taking the ground up.
Speaker B:Like, now we occupy it.
Speaker B:I might not have this wonderful fortress there, but I own this ground and I'll hold this with everything I can to have it.
Speaker B:I think it's really.
Speaker B:It requires money.
Speaker B:That's the only thing.
Speaker B:You're fighting taxpayer dogs.
Speaker B:It's kind of weird because, like, the government compulsory makes you donate to them, and y' all are having, like, a voluntary donation.
Speaker B:But really, like, we talk about it on the local level for enforcement.
Speaker B:Right where we were at, they had, like, traffic cams, the whole thing.
Speaker B:There's not a very.
Speaker B:There's probably very few major cities in America that don't have traffic camps.
Speaker B:Completely unenforceable in Texas.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:People are like, I pay property taxes here, Doug.
Speaker B:I won't be given tickets.
Speaker B:I want to be able to drive as fast as I want or I want to be like that voice.
Speaker B:Collectively is the only way you get stuff like that done.
Speaker B:How do we get to constitutional carry?
Speaker B:It wasn't a hope and a dream and memes on the Internet.
Speaker B:It really wasn't.
Speaker B:There was a legal team that put pressure on senators that you do it or I'm dragging you or you do it, or.
Speaker C:There was also an incredible amount of grassroots pressure.
Speaker C:I know, because we had a team there and a dedicated staff and we had volunteers that drove from all across the state to testify in their state house.
Speaker C:Like, it's.
Speaker C:That we can be.
Speaker C:How do I want to phrase this?
Speaker C:Because I don't want to piss people off.
Speaker B:Just whisper it in my ear and I'll say it.
Speaker A:That's fine.
Speaker A:I'll say it.
Speaker B:They can get mad at me.
Speaker B:That's fine.
Speaker B:That's normal.
Speaker B:Tuesday for me.
Speaker C:There are different levels of activism.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker C:I want people to be that keyboard warrior.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:But I also want people to be that email warrior and to send messages to their representatives.
Speaker C:I also want them to be that phone warrior who calls and leaves messages for their representatives.
Speaker C:I also want them to be that postcard warrior who signs their name and mails a letter in.
Speaker C:I also want them to be that speaker warrior where they're driving to a committee and saying, hey, you know, you know what?
Speaker C:I'm signing up.
Speaker C:I called your office, I got on the docket, and you're gonna listen to me testify.
Speaker C:And there's.
Speaker C:There's levels of activism, and I understand not everyone can make it to a goal.
Speaker C:A gold.
Speaker C:A gold day.
Speaker C:Gun owners lobby day.
Speaker C:I do know how to spell a gold day.
Speaker B:You're doing better than me.
Speaker B:I have dyslexia.
Speaker B:You're fine.
Speaker A:Hey, welcome to the club.
Speaker B:We're crushing it today.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But not everyone can take the time off work, especially in this economy.
Speaker C:But for those of you, us that can, should, and should be active, and not all of us can go to a town hall that our representative is having, but those of us who can, should, should.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, I always want to look back and go, wow, I've seen growth in myself.
Speaker C:And that growth as an activist is no different.
Speaker B:I think it goes back to, like I said, the privileged position that we specifically are in.
Speaker B:I am gifted with the ability to dedicate my.
Speaker B:It's 80.
Speaker B:I'm paid for 40.
Speaker B:But I do 80 hours of my week to dedicate to that craft.
Speaker B:And sometimes in the form of, like, hey, maybe I can get more people interested in firearms by doing xyz.
Speaker B:Maybe I can prop up, like, good, legitimate brands that are, like, actually supporting Pro2Amovement.
Speaker B:Or, like, you'll have people strike.
Speaker B:Industries is really cool about this.
Speaker B:They're like, hey, a portion of our proceeds, we're going to go give to fbc or we're going to go give to whatever.
Speaker B:Like, you're putting your money where your mouth is.
Speaker B:And that, again, pushing for more advocacy so it can be there.
Speaker B:People always ask, you have the best job in the world.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:I do.
Speaker B:And I love it.
Speaker B:But that's really legitimately what we're doing.
Speaker B:I think it's the biggest difference between influencer culture and advocacy culture is very, very different.
Speaker B:We have an obligation both to the industry, but also to the consumer that none of this matters if boom, it's gone and we're Australia.
Speaker B:Or boom, it's gone and now you need a permission strip to even leave your house.
Speaker B:And I think that guns in general, as weird and obviously controversial as it is, I was like, it's about sovereignty.
Speaker B:That's a really weird philosophical.
Speaker B:The college kids in the comments.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, that's genius, right?
Speaker B:But we are trying to.
Speaker B:We're one of the last free.
Speaker B:We are the most free people that have probably ever exist to a certain degree.
Speaker B:There's definitely NPCs out there that drink the juice and watch their box maker to tell them how to think.
Speaker B:But the difference in between literal, I don't want to throw around the word slavery, but literal, you're just subject to what anybody wants you to do.
Speaker B:And having some amount of free will or sovereignty of doing that, that's really why we're advocating.
Speaker B:I think it's why we're so passionate about it.
Speaker B:And if you're not an advocate for that, you can't be an advocate for anything.
Speaker B:You can talk about anything else in the political spectrum that will affect your day to day life, whether it's how you eat or how you worship or your personal values that you want to protect within your communities.
Speaker B:All of that's hogwash if you don't have the sovereignty to do it again.
Speaker C:Yeah, well, I think that kind of comes down to understanding what the Second Amendment is.
Speaker C:And not to get into too much of the philosophical side, but I'm here for the sauce.
Speaker C:Let's not.
Speaker A:No, you're good.
Speaker C:Let's not forget that this is a natural right.
Speaker C:This is a.
Speaker C:Whether you want to call it a natural right or a God given right.
Speaker C:This is something that the government can't give you.
Speaker C:It was not given to you by government.
Speaker C:We always say, and we've printed it on stickers and all the things.
Speaker C:Your Second Amendment is constitutionally protected, not government granted right, but.
Speaker C:But ultimately the more we hear it, the more we understand that core belief, the more we're like, no, you're absolutely right.
Speaker C:That's why the founders knew in all of their infinite wisdom that the government had to have boundaries.
Speaker C:They knew that because of where they had just come from.
Speaker C:And for us as a people to then go, wait, we don't we want to give the government unlimited power?
Speaker C:Like, it just, it blows my mind sometimes because you can even go to people on the anti gun left and say, do you trust the government?
Speaker C:And they're like, no.
Speaker C:And I'm like, okay, but you only want the government to be armed.
Speaker B:If I'm.
Speaker B:If I'm concerned about a systemically oppressive government that has marginalized me and people like me, why on earth would I give them a monopoly on violence over me?
Speaker B:Why would I remove any semblance of sovereignty that I have for myself?
Speaker B:I said, no, I'll just trust those guys with it.
Speaker B:They seem like they got it handled.
Speaker B:That's your complaint, genuinely.
Speaker B:And I found it again coming from that perspective where I was the government drone.
Speaker B:I am from the government and I am here to help when the government has an interest in it.
Speaker B:There was a caveat to that.
Speaker B:I vividly remember having to go through.
Speaker B:We would have, let's call it an emergency detention in Texas, where basically, let's say I'm feeling some kind of way I want to go harm myself or whatever.
Speaker B:And I would find out this guy was a veteran or this guy's whatever.
Speaker B:I was like, cool, so this guy's going to have guns.
Speaker B:So I need to be careful approaching this shout out to sovereignty, right?
Speaker B:I'm the government coming.
Speaker B:And I'm like, like, well, he's armed.
Speaker B:So I got to approach him a little differently because he technically gets to pick on how this goes when he's unarmed.
Speaker B:It's not the case.
Speaker B:But there was times where even being a pro two a person at that point that I was like, I'm now the boot that people complain about, right?
Speaker B:And I was like, do you have friends nearby that can come pick up your guns?
Speaker B:How much do you trust your neighbor?
Speaker B:I wanted nothing.
Speaker B:Protocol was, if he's got a gun present, we'll take it in for evidence and they can get it out later.
Speaker B:I was like, like, you're not gonna give it back to.
Speaker B:Like who's gonna give it back to him?
Speaker B:Or they're gonna give it back to him in five months.
Speaker B:So he doesn't have a right to protect himself for five months.
Speaker B:And then we get to arbitrage.
Speaker C:Forfeiture is 100%.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's 100% thing.
Speaker B:So like, am I really gonna be that guy?
Speaker B:And I multiple times where I was like, so there was a firearm present?
Speaker B:And I was like, yes.
Speaker B:And he was like, so what happened to that?
Speaker B:I was like, girlfriend took it.
Speaker B:And they were like, really?
Speaker B:And I was like, yeah, what if he gets out and hurts himself?
Speaker B:He's a free person.
Speaker B:He gets out and he hurts himself.
Speaker B:What do you want from me?
Speaker B:I'm not gonna take that away from him just because he's having an acute moment.
Speaker B:But the government prescription is to do that.
Speaker B:And it's like, that's a policy thing.
Speaker B:You could very easily, as an organized group at the local level say, I don't want that to be policy.
Speaker B:I want policy to be, I think it's Hold My guns as the organization that'll do this for you.
Speaker B:But they'll find an FFL that will take possession of your gun so that when you're ready, you go do it.
Speaker B:You don't have to wait for the city to release it or again for.
Speaker B: don't ask it forfeiture your: Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:That's $8,000 or whatever it is.
Speaker B:You don't have to be subject to this third party entity that doesn't have your interest in mind.
Speaker B:You can preserve that because there are.
Speaker B:Again, I've suffered from PTSD before.
Speaker B:I understand it can be complicated.
Speaker B:Our principles will eventually run into very hard conversations to be had.
Speaker B:But that doesn't mean we need to be advocates and we need to go do those things to preserve those.
Speaker B:Even in those hard times or even when it's an uncomfortable conversation to be had.
Speaker B:It's like, yeah, I'm that weirdo that's like, yeah, you own a gun for them.
Speaker B:Like, I'm not worried about robbers.
Speaker B:I bought a house in a very nice place so I wouldn't have to worry about that.
Speaker B:I'm worried about the government.
Speaker B:That sounds weird and sketchy.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I like every flavor of boot I can find.
Speaker B:But like, it doesn't mean I don't understand that intrinsic value in having it.
Speaker B:And I think that motivating people to do it on the local level can happen overnight.
Speaker B:You want like your police to just stop messing with stuff like that or stop stopping dudes that are opening, carrying or you're printing.
Speaker B:It used to be a whole huge thing in Texas.
Speaker B:Concealed carrying with a license was okay, but if you were printing it was a felony.
Speaker B:Like, how is this ucw, I went through your licensure, I went through all of this stuff.
Speaker B:But now it's a felony.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because that's government protocol.
Speaker A:Well, this has been an amazing episode.
Speaker A:I think we need to A, have you back on B, go on your guys show.
Speaker B:Sure, I'd have a blessing.
Speaker A:So we're gonna wrap this up.
Speaker A:I know I'd love to talk for another hour.
Speaker B:Oh no, you're good.
Speaker B:We're asking them, we're asking them to hang out with us for that long.
Speaker A:Yeah, hang out for us for a part 2.
Speaker A:Comment below if you want a part 2.
Speaker A:Definitely comment below.
Speaker A:Come hang out or go over to RFCOM and tell them that you want a part 2 so they will come back on demand.
Speaker B:I'll argue with you at least.
Speaker A:So plug any plugs you want to go.
Speaker C:Go.
Speaker B:Yeah, obviously there's the forums, it's ar15.com on socials.
Speaker B:We're Arfcom, which is just Arfcom or ar15com, depending on what the platform is.
Speaker B:We do have a news channel.
Speaker B:We actually do end up plugging.
Speaker B:Like literally.
Speaker B:Y' all are my source for is there any litigation happening?
Speaker B:So they'll go, I love.
Speaker B:Andrew does a really good job with this.
Speaker B:He'll actually share.
Speaker B:Please don't call the senator's phone number and leave them a comment here if you want to know.
Speaker B:They'll just like leave it on the screen for a second.
Speaker B:But we do have a news channel.
Speaker B:It's really cool.
Speaker B:Andrew does a really good job about specifically 2A news and then we have a reviews channel where we go and inform and educate people for that.
Speaker B:But that's, that's ARFCOM news.
Speaker B:ARFCOM reviews, all that cool stuff.
Speaker B:But I would really, if I'm going to plug anything, I think just like try to convert somebody today if you've heard this and this resonates with you in some way, shape or form.
Speaker B:Even if it's not all the way to like, hey, go join Goa.
Speaker B:It's like, least go to the range with me or at least entertain the discussion.
Speaker B:If you can convert at least one person to listen, I think it's a win if I can ask for any kind of plug.
Speaker A:So perfect.
Speaker A:Well, thank you guys for joining.
Speaker A:Make sure to like share and subscribe, leave a 5 star review and have a great rest of your day.
