In this episode, Jason Fernandes, Co-Founder of AdLunam, is joined by Ivan Ivanov, CEO of WOW Summit, to explore the future of blockchain innovation, community impact, and the role of global events like WOW Summit in shaping Web3 across Asia and beyond. Discover how these events are driving digital transformation and connecting markets worldwide.

Join us for an exciting conversation on the future of Web3 and its global influence.

Catch DIVIC live every Thursday on the AdLunam Twitter page (https://x.com/AdLunamInc).

Web3 and Beyond _ Bridging Markets for Digital Innovation

SPEAKERS:

Nadja Bester - AdLunam Inc Co-founder

Ivan Ivanov - CEO of WOW Summit & Co-founder of Uvecon

Hi, Hello, can you hear me?

Hey, Ivan, yes, I can. How's it going?

Yeah, all good, all good, but very busy with Bangkok.

So, yeah, I feel your pain. I'm looking forward to DevCon starting, but I'm also looking forward to DevCon ending, because there's a lot of work to be done. But, yeah, it's, well, I mean, tomorrow it basically the Chain Fusion Hacker House kicks off tomorrow. So I guess with that, DevCon has begun very pretty soon. So it's gonna be an amazing week.

Yeah, I think, you know, there's, there's kind of two main entry points for most people in crypto, either it was like the ICO days, or it was the NFT craze, and the ICO era was really, really crazy on a different level. So I'm curious, how did you get from this initial curiosity and playing around with different blockchain use cases? How did that lead to starting WOW Summit? And I mean, you've built a brand into something that is internationally recognized and respected, and it brings together so many incredible minds in the industry that really move things forward, and, you know, are passionate about their topics and wanting to spread the word. So how did it, how did that initial entry lead to what WOW Summit is today? What does that spark that went from the initial beginning through today's force in the industry.

It sounds like it's one of those bucket list items, like, if you're an event organizer, then at least once in your life, you need to be able to organize an event in three months. I'm pretty sure that it's going to be incredible. I mean, as you say, you're already basically oversubscribed, and the WOW brand draws both incredible speakers as well as incredible attendees. But I'm curious, Ivan. I mean, I know as well that the Asian market has such incredible potential, but I think we've especially seen this recently, where in the US, I mean, there's a lot of regulatory hurdles in the US, in Europe as well, whereas in Asia, the web3 ecosystem is really allowed to flourish. So I'm curious, what do you think the role of Asia is going to be going forward in the near and the medium and long term future for the future of web3.

Yeah, for sure. So, first of all, I think because of Asia and Southeast Asia and kind of central India, it's one of the biggest population in the world. So, I mean, so India, Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia. So it's kind of like it's a huge population, and then so also majority of this population, they are unbent. So when they actually so they need blockchain, and they need web three, and they need a crypto for the daily life. So not like people in Europe or in us. Well, they are like well established. They have bank account. They have deposits. They have different kind of access to financial instruments. So in Asia, so people, they don't have this, this one, and, okay, someone have, but majority so like, they don't have the access to this kind of like instrument. And then if we are talking about the adoption of the technology, so and regulations of the technology, we can see that quite many Asian countries both developed countries and undeveloped countries, so they are adopting the blockchain and crypto, an example of Philippines. So I went to burka and was like surprised that I can pay for the t shirt in the shop by Bitcoin. And this is kind of like legal tender, so no problem. Then also, countries like Indonesia, Malaysia, they are implementing different kind of regulations, and they are welcoming, actually, web3 and crypto companies. So we all know that Singapore is quite a long time, one of the leaders in crypto, crypto space. So Hong Kong, where I am actually based for the last nine years, and I'm a big fan of Hong Kong. So the government is also implementing different kind of regulations, including so Hong Kong was the first place where Bitcoin and Ethereum supported years allowed in back in December, right before or US approval. So And right now, quite many things happening, including the sandbox for stable coins, so licenses for exchanges, licenses regime for OTC desks. So it's getting like more regulated, but it's also getting more safe in this case. So I do believe Asian and what we see also in WoW Summit, we see that more and more companies from US and Europe, they're interested in events in Asia, and they want to come to Asia. They want to explore Asia. Sometimes they have no understanding like what's happening in Asia and how happening in Asia. But here we also are so like we always providing to our partners and to our clients and to our exhibitors, this kind of advice. So I have also venture student consulting firm in Hong Kong, where we actually focused on that, on providing the consulting and business development services for companies in Asia and Southeast Asia.

Yeah, Ivan, I would love to have your thoughts. I think you touched on a really important point in terms of the regulatory landscape in Asia actually making it conducive for people to experiment, because they are allowed to experiment. In Africa, I've seen quite the opposite. There's, I mean, Africa is also has a huge unbanked population, but because there's not really a lot of regulatory input. There's not a lot of people building and so, you know, the average person is not seeing the results of the solutions that blockchain can offer. But I wonder, then, what are your thoughts in terms of Asia? Specifically, there's a lot of opportunities that Asia, the Asian economy, has. I mean, I'm using, you know, a blanket statement. Of course, there are many different economies within Asia, but I think on the whole, most of the economies in Asia are performing quite well. So what do you think are some of the unique challenges then, that Asia will face in terms of web3 adoption and web3 regulation?

Yeah, I think so, if you're talking about Asia, like at all. So of course, there are quite many similarities in in the regulatory framework in the countries, but it's also very fragmented, like from country to country, different cultures, different regulations. So in example, so when we were doing like, when we were planning the event in Thailand, we didn't have quite clear understanding, like, what going on here and how we should, like treat our clients and exhibitors and whatever. So then we learned that here is also quite strict regulations by local securities and exchange commission, so in terms of events and advertising like and everything else which are focused on crypto blockchain, so non light exchanges cannot advertise their exchange services, so no advertising like on Ico or potential profits. So basically, we learned a lot about Thailand. So then, in example, Malaysia, so one of our partners for Thailand event is Malaysian digital economy Corporation, which is a government entity attracting technology companies, including blockchain companies and startups into Malaysia. And I met with them and discussed also the regulations. So interesting things. So they also welcoming web three startups, and they're interested to talk to big companies like Animoca, like different kind of layer one foundations. But actually, like, nobody knows about that. So they trying to advertise. They're trying to attend the events. But if you ask like average person, like in Dubai or in Hong Kong, right, what do you know about Malaysian regulations or whatever? So probably they say nothing. And I do believe, if governments want really to attract the entrepreneurs, the projects and developers, so they need to put like, more efforts and poor money for advertising the country as like, welcoming to web three entrepreneurs.

Yeah, that's such a good point. But I wonder from your vantage point, because I think with Wow Summit, you are in a very unique position. You are dealing with so many different stakeholders at all different levels, in all different aspects of you know, whether it be the industry, whether it be government, whether it be the you know, the location itself. What is your general sense in terms of the relationship between the web3, industry and regulation? Do you think that there's a shift, as you said earlier, it's getting more regulated, but it's also getting safer. Do you feel like there's an overall shift of people appreciating the fact that it's becoming more regulated. And do you think that governments are also becoming more open, as you say, in terms of the of the Malaysian government, for example, are governments generally becoming more open to the idea of partnering with the web3 industry,

Yeah, it's very unfortunate. I feel like often there's almost a bit of false advertising, maybe not always deliberately, but just not an understanding. You know, a government is such a slow moving vehicle, and I think they that sometimes there's one department within the government that's pro something, but then when it actually comes to the day to day implementation, you find that there are a lot of departments in government that's not pro so, yeah, this is just part of the landscape. But so speaking of landscape, I mean, we all know that in the web3 space regulation is a constant challenge, and the challenge being that you don't know whether or not you're breaking the rules, because very often there are no rules as stated by the government. But not only a regulation, of course, we also have the market to contend with. So I would love to hear your thoughts on the state of the market at the moment. I mean, we've had a three year bear market. It's been tough on so many companies in this industry. We've seen massive layoffs startups, you know, wanting to get traction, but there's no investor, institutional or retail funding coming in. And now, of course, we recently have had the meme coin explosion. There's a lot of liquidity in the meme coin market, but still none of that liquidity flows into the startup space. So I'm curious, from your perspective, what do you think? What are these shifts that are happening in the market right now? Do you think that in a couple of months, things are going to look different. Do you think we're going to go back to the way things were before the bear market? Is there something completely new coming? What are your thoughts?

Well, I think so. First of all, we have kind of, like the feeling and the responsibility of like what we are doing, and we have very good respect like to each other, so we are, like, working nearly like a family together and then I think everyone is just super excited on what we are doing in the end. And so, you know, like, when you are the part of something big, and people later on, they say, like, okay, like, Oh, wow. You are part of the team of Fauci, which happened like in Hong Kong and Dubai, right now in Bangkok. So we all know like that event, and actually, so I think this is and you guys are so cool. So you have so good networking, you have some good speakers, and we want to come to your event again. I think this is the best reward for any member of the team.

Yes, I think that sense of shared common purpose that is larger than you and is something that makes worth getting up in the morning and having sleepless nights and being stressed and not having enough time to yourself, something has to make it all worth it. So on that note, then, what about you personally? What is it that drives you in this industry? I mean, it's, it's a great industry sometimes, but it can also be really, really difficult to be here. And I always say, you know, you can't be here for years and years if there's not something very, very big that drives you and motivates you. So what is yours?

Yeah, I think first of all, it's people. So if we are talking about web3 space, so people are very different from other spaces. So for sure. So if you're coming, in example, to traditional financial forum or event, so I've limited quite many, so people are just quite some boring and closed and like, so they don't want, really like to talk, to visit with each other. But if, if you're coming to crypto event or like web three event, so everybody else just like, so open, so friendly, so they want to work together. They want to drive the space together. They want to collaborate. So it's kind of quite easy to negotiate. And the majority of companies, they're still startups, even it's kind of like big companies, like, I don't know, consensus or whatever, so, but so people feel very open minded, and it's really great to communicate with them and to build something together. And so everybody is just super excited about, like, what's going on, even in, like, in bear markets, when people lose, like, many things. And sometimes they lose everything, so many of them, they just return because so they believe in the future of this. And I do believe that's, like, very important.

Yeah. I mean, I think especially with Wow summit being one of the first post crypto events, you surely have proven that people need to come together. There's a need for people to gather in physical spaces and to really connect. Because I think, you know, we are so. Through this virtual world. And it's fantastic to live in a virtual world, because you can work from anywhere you can. Your life is very mobile compared to the other traditional spaces where everyone's in the office. But there is something that we lose when we are only ever on Zoom or on telegram or whatnot. And I think there's, there's no better place than to go to a web three conference and to meet other people who are passionately working on problems the same way that you are. So from your experience, what makes for a successful event? I mean, I've gone to many events. I speak at many events, some of them are fantastic, not for the reasons that I think it will be great, but for reasons I didn't anticipate. So what is that secret recipe that you know makes an event Great?

Yeah, I think for the events. So one of the key components is like, which kind of speakers to have the events, and so which kind of like speakers do you have good connection with? So people, normally, they come and they see, like, really, top level speakers at the event, top level partners. And then behind that, it's also very important to work with the community and to work with good media partners, with good community partners, because the communities, I think that's the most important thing to make the event successful. So if people in the community, the community partners, if they are promoting the event, saying like to their community members that, okay, we are going to this event. This event is credible. So this event has a history, has like, nice speakers, nice partners. So then, of course, people will come. And if you don't work with community, if you don't have good reputation, good relations with the community. So of course, people, they just won't come. So I would say the community building and building the platform for communication is one of the key things for making the event successful.

Well, thank you. Certainly managed to do that at Wow Summit. There's certainly a very strong community around the events that you put up, but over from B2B to B2C. Of course, we know in web3 that community building is everything, but I feel that often when it comes to the retail market to you know, the people that we are building for we are not quite building the community in the way that we can, because, as we said earlier, there's a lot of people that have gotten hurt by a lot of projects in this space, and it's not always the project's fault. I mean, the market is crazy. We've seen a really bad market over the years. But do you feel that now in terms of community building for retail. Do you think that we are going to start seeing some changes in the way things are done up till now? You know, we're so used to marketing just with airdrops and, you know, giveaway. So do you think that there's going to be sort of a more, a deeper relationship between the community and projects going forward now that the space is maturing.

Well, I would say, if we are talking about the blockchain technology adoption, so many people, they will even don't know, like they are using the some apps, or the apps which using like the blockchain technology I can tell you about. So we are not thinking about like, which kind of programming language or communication protocol is used by like browser in our computer or laptop. We don't care about that absolutely. So then, when you become like the real adoption of the technology, so then people, they will even don't know, like they're using something on the blockchain. This is the first thing, an example. So at our conference here, so one interesting company speaking. It's called the binary coding, which is a company that quoted in Thailand, but working like across the world. And they are providing the web3 based solutions and brief infrastructure for telcos, telecommunication companies. And they work with guys like Telefonica. So the reason we signed the Deutsche Telekom, and basically integrating with the apps and the user base to provide different kind of like loyalty engagement solution for people and different kind of like reward system. So based on the blockchain and they also integrate in. In different kind of DApps and into that apps. But I do believe so, like the normal users, they even don't understand, like, what's going on, like, on the background. So if we are talking about different kind of crypto adoption or crypto stuff, so we see this year, one of the narratives for this market is Telegram Mini Apps. So I would say, for my opinion, this is one of the best examples of like the really like blockchain adoption, or crypto adoption. So when even people who never know about like crypto or web three, so they started to play with this, like tap games, like hamster combat, whatever, so and getting some tokens, and then they say, like, well, they see like that, they need to withdraw their tokens or to bring them to some exchanges, and then, then they need to learn how to do that, actually, so and all this, like 100 million, 200 million users, so they come to different kind of exchanges, or, like, make their crypto wallets on, Like, their telegram Wallet. So this is kind of like one of the best examples of how non crypto people can be engaged in crypto. So this is where I see two different kind of like markets. And then if we are talking about all this, like defy and like exchanges, trading, I would say so different kind of defi solutions. They're also like looking at more institutional sector. They're looking at more corporates. So and basically building some infrastructure so the retail users, they will also don't know like that, maybe some institution, they are using some kind of, like DeFi solution for their operation.

So yeah, I think it's the future looks invisible for the technology more than anything else, as much as I love to talk about it, I think there definitely needs to come a time where, as you say, we stop questioning each other what browser you are using, because that's really what we are doing in a web three right now, is we are we are focusing on things that the average person absolutely doesn't care about, is not interested in, doesn't want to understand. And of course, it's very important to do this. It's very important to have these conversations. But I'm certainly looking forward to a future where people are just using the technology without even knowing that it's on the back end. But Ivan, I have a question. I know that you also have a adventure studio. So what are you seeing in this space in terms of the innovation coming in? I mean, I know that there are some trends, some narratives, as you said, the telegram mini app narrative is very strong right now. But are there narratives that you feel are early and it's going to have a bigger play in the coming years. Or what are your thoughts around this?

Yeah, first of all, if we're talking about some narratives and what we have this year and for the next year, so apart from like telegram Mini Apps, I would say real world assets and tokenization of everything is coming for sure. So then different kind of infrastructure solutions, and B to B solutions for the corporate is also one of the trends. And with also with approval of Bitcoin and Ethereum, ETF and, yeah, Trump won the elections and everything else. So I think more institutional money will come to the space, and there will be, like, more demand into the like institutional infrastructure for crypto and virtual assets. And I would say so. I also see quite many traditional finance companies and payment solutions. They're more and more implementing crypto into their like applications. So all this kind of like Stripe Revolute, so they're all looking at that space. This is also one of the one of the narratives. So when we when we will see kind of like the real acceptance of the of the crypto. By some institutional player players.

Yeah, I think it's, it's going to be an interesting three years up ahead. And when you're in this space, it seems like every year is interesting for a different reason. So let's see what the what the next year brings. So Ivan, we have been talking a lot over the last hour about, you know, the changes in the market, and if you are a founder, just coming into the space now, depending on the amount of information that you have access to or the resources you have access to, you might have information that's you know current, or you might have information that's up to date. So what do you see are some of the biggest myths that new founders believe are true, that maybe is already outdated and they just don't know it yet.

Yeah, I think the importance of education in this space cannot be overstated. And I think a lot of people have the wrong idea about what education looks like. You know, if you come from a schooling background, then your idea of education is, oh, I have to write, I have to read a book about it, or I have to watch a YouTube video, you know, if I'm being modern. But really, I have found that the absolute best education that one can get, first of all is just talking to other people, as you say, and especially at events. I mean, you meet so many different people that are all working on different problems, and it might be something that you've never heard of. But because you are at this event, because you are networking, you are just building your library of information in your head. But so I know that you are incredible at business development. I mean, of course, we can clearly see this through WOW Summit as well. So what are your tips for? I mean, I mean, so many people go to events, of course, for business development, what are your tips for getting the best ROI, the best return on investment for business development at an event?

Yeah, I feel like I'm already at this stage where just having a late night is enough, like I don't need to add anything else on top of that to make me feel even worse the next morning. So Ivan, because you are in a very unique position to know what works and what doesn't. One observation that I had at token in Singapore, for example, is, you know, you went to every booth, even when you were there for business development, the staff at the booth were only focused on handing out much. So if you wanted to talk to talk to the business development people, no, no, they are not there. But do you want a t shirt? So if you are an exhibitor, if you are a sponsor of an event, how do you ensure that you get the maximum return on investment? Is it just about merch? What more is there to ensuring that the cost, you know, go plays out well for you?

Yeah, I think it's really depends on the company, I mean, like, and depends on the target of the event for the sponsor. But if I'm the founder of the company, and I spent maybe like 10,000 15,000 or sometimes it's like 100,000 USD for the boost or for the sponsorship, for sure. I won't like just put on the boost the staff who will give out the merch and for sure. So I will put someone who can really build the connection and build the network. So I think it's just kind of like, maybe it's just a mistake of founding, or like management team, so when they're putting on the goose, some people that are just giving out the merge. But so I also visited quite many events and booths where you actually, really can talk to the founder, or you can talk to some business development people. It depends on, I also think, if you're prepared to the event, if you see the companies, and if you do some study about that companies, so you will see the nature of the company and maybe the technology behind and like so normal, like good companies that really want to gain some ROI from the event, so they will never just put people to give away the merge. But sometimes, if it's kind of like, really a rich company or really a big company, well, they put some people to give out the merch just for the brand exposure, so they can spend maybe 50,000 100,000 USD. And one time we actually had this kind of like sponsor, or whatever I won't say, like, which kind of company is it? But so they paid, like, 200,000 US, and we asked them, Okay, what is the, what are the target of this, of your sponsorship? And like, how we can help you to achieve the target? And say, like, oh, that's just kind of like the brand exposure, like a big event, so we just found our logo will be there. And so we give out the merchants, which, okay, that's easy for us as well.

Yeah, it makes me think that even in the web3 business space, wealth is not distributed equally. There's a lot of companies that would love to have that those kind of funds, to have that kind of brand visibility. But So Ivan, before we come to a close today, you have worked with so many companies over your time in web three, what are some of the key characteristics that makes a good company stand out in your eyes?

I would say, first of all the kind of like the product and the founding team. So if the founding team have the vision and they have a mission, and they know which kind of. Product and for whom they're building. So then this could be a good company, that could be good product. So second thing is how the company is communicating with their clients and with their community. So sometimes, if even they have a good product, and they have a good team, like the founding team, there is a lack of communication with the community, and then this is become, becoming a problem. This like client base, or the growth and everything else. So I think there are quite several like key factors like that projects should have for a good standing in the space. So the founding team, the product, the and for sure, the communication with the community,

Okay? I would say, Be ambitious and be careful.

I love that super short and sweet, but I think it encapsulates everything that you need to know in this space. Ivan, it's been a pleasure looking forward to an amazing wow summit next week. I know it's going to go fantastically well, but still wishing you the best of luck. We'll see you there next week. And please, if you're in the audience, do follow Wow Summit. If you're at DevCon, which I highly, highly recommend, it's going to be a mind blowing experience. I can tell you that AdLunam and altcoin are partnered with several incredible events. So do check our social channels. But if you are going to be in DevCon, stop by WOW Summit. I think it's going to be one of the key events of the week. And with that, I wish you a fantastic week. Ivan, see you soon. Cheers guys. Have a lovely evening. Thank you.

Thank you, Nadja, Thank you. Thank you. Bye, bye.