Shownotes
This episode provides general suggestions to comedians, especially neurodivergent ones like us autistic and ADHD actors in comedy and improv, to protect our minds while engaging in comedy and with others in the community.
Find the video for this episode (has my face, not just captions): YouTube video (you can leave your input here!)
Find the written article for this episode here: NeurodiversityImprov.com article (you can also leave your input here!)
Checking in on yourself, in whatever spaces you’re participating in, is pretty good for mental health. These ten suggestions should be relevant beyond comedy communities, and will apply to people who aren't neurodivergent too. So even if you aren't autistic, for example, these should be relevant and hopefully somewhat useful.
Some important notes about these suggestions for protecting your mind in comedy spaces:
- Some of these suggestions might contradict themselves. Or they might leave out some important points. This is confusing stuff, highly personal/unique, and in this case of course limited to one person’s experience and brain wiring! I heartily welcome you to add your own observations in the comments (anonymously from a throwaway account is fine, too!)
- Some of these suggestions might sound like I’m suggesting to “run away” from issues — but I am NOT advocating this and NOT suggesting we avoid addressing problems in comedy. Quite the opposite. These suggestions involve sticking within your community, but empowering yourself whilst doing so by forming new projects, outlets, or similar (as an option, or while addressing problematic stuff if it’s applicable). And as always: any suggestions are not universal!
- All ten sections below are SUGGESTIONS (from an autistic brain) even though many are not worded as such. These are worded like demands, because it’s what I ask of myself, what I use to check in. But they aren’t demands for YOU. Take a suggestion if you think it's helpful and applies to you. Ignore it if it doesn't apply to you.
- And as always, don’t replace this article or site for working with a professional. Also don’t use these resources for diagnosis of yourself or others. I’m not a mental health professional.
You deserve compassion and respect no matter where you are with either your mental health or whether you are autistic, ADHD, or another neurotype!
Ten Suggestions (as chapters!)
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:00 About the podcast and episode
02:22 Episode and topic overview - why I/we need these suggestions
07:16 Suggestion One: Be Yourself and don't compromise on it.
10:43 Suggestion Two: Take care of yourself first, for others
13:53 Suggestion Three: Find your source of joy, but be open to pivoting
16:17 Suggestion Four: Find the humans who value YOU
19:33 Suggestion Five: Ignore the gatekeepers, and find your confidence
22:31 Suggestion Six: Protect your value
23:34 Suggestion Seven: Communicate openly and in good faith
28:36 Suggestion Eight: Ask for or seek accommodations
31:02 Suggestion Nine: Analyze where value comes from, especially if depressed
33:33 Suggestion Ten: Value your mental health
35:50 Conclusion and links
42:42 Link to podcast (NeurodivergentComedy.com)
Comedy is wildly strange, and a beast of its own (despite giving retro-silicon-valley vibes). At least the tiny corner I've witnessed and participated in. Let’s keep our neurodivergent minds safer here.
Your Voice - Neurodiversity Survey
Let me know what you have experienced as a neurodivergent in comedy! Answer three questions here!
Do you have a suggestion for protecting your mind in comedy and improv spaces? Send your input to the show on our show's contact form here or leave a comment on YouTube or Neurodiversity in Improv site - links above.
Previous surveys are available here - do any of them at any time!
Where to go to find stuff
- This podcast episode has a video and article for it. You can find them linked near the beginning of these show notes.
- For bonus resources related to comedy and neurodiversity (especially autism and ADHD), you can become a supporter of NeurodiversityImprov.com. Or you can also support the work with one time tip here.
- For FREE podcast and show updates for this and other comedy and audio drama epsiodes, go to StereoForest.com. This is significantly delayed because of the personal crisis mentioned earlier in this article. But I’ll start releasing what I’ve made soon - I just want to do it properly and not rush things.
- For updates about improv you can find online, join the newsletter at ImprovUpdate.com
About
This podcast and website was created by Jen deHaan — an autistic + ADHD improviser and performer.
This episode was and produced by StereoForest.com. Join the FREE StereoForest newsletter for all podcast and show updates at members.stereoforest.com.
This podcast is released on Tuesdays, usually twice per month, at NeurodivergentComedy.com and wherever you find podcasts. Bonus content to support this podcast is available via NeurodiversityImprov.com.
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy
Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
Transcripts
1
::Jen deHaan: Comedy, improv,
performance, it can all take a toll
2
::on neurodivergent minds, especially.
3
::It's really important to protect our
brains while doing comedy, especially when
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::we're so prone to being misunderstood and
mistreated in other parts of our lives.
5
::You deserve compassion and respect,
no matter where you are with either
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::your mental health or your neurotype.
7
::This episode includes some suggestions
for how to approach keeping your
8
::mind safe while practicing comedy.
9
::They're ones I specifically use to check
in in times of raw stress and difficulty.
10
::Have you had difficult times in comedy?
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::If so, keep listening.
12
::Welcome to episode 22 of
Neurodivergent Minds in Comedy.
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::I'm Jenda Hahn, and I'm an autistic
and ADHD performer who is about to
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::info dump all over you about the
intersection of comedy and reality.
15
::And neurodivergence.
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::These episodes are intended to help
all humans of all neurotypes, since
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::neurodivergent and neurotypical
humans do comedy together
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::every day, all over the place.
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::Before we get started though, real quick.
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::I am only speaking for myself and my
own lived experience in these episodes.
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::This is an N of 1.
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::Everyone's experiences are very
different based on both their
23
::neurotype and their unique lived
experiences and support needs.
24
::My ideas in these episodes
and any information I share
25
::won't be right for everyone.
26
::The words I use and the things I
do are just my own experiences, my
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::own preferences, what works for me.
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::Adjust or ignore anything
that's not right for you.
29
::People using this podcast.
30
::And finally, these points are
explanations, not excuses.
31
::No one can change how we're wired or
how we're raised, but we can do the work
32
::to understand ourselves better and work
with that knowledge the best that we can.
33
::This article for this episode, the, it is
unlocked for the community because this
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::one felt like I should just do that thing.
35
::And it's also the one year anniversary
of the podcast to the website.
36
::Yay.
37
::So if you want to read this in words
or share those written words, we With
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::other people in the community, you can
do so today at neurodiversityimprov.
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::com.
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::The link will be in the show notes
and also just look for episode 22.
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::It should be pretty easy to find.
42
::And with that all out of the way.
43
::Let's get started.
44
::This episode will give some general
suggestions to comedians, especially the
45
::neurodivergent ones, to protect their,
our minds while engaging in comedy and
46
::with other people in this community.
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::I suspect a lot of it will apply
to non comedy spaces as well,
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::because I am drawing from my
experience and observations in a
49
::variety of comedy and non comedy
communities that I have been in.
50
::These suggestions are not always a
commentary on my personal experience
51
::though, so don't read into anything.
52
::I'm sharing some stuff I've heard about
and experienced in completely different
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::crafts and professional spaces as
well, but it's all related to comedy.
54
::It's all being seen
through the lens of comedy.
55
::For example, A special shout
out to those of us existing as
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::non cishet white men in tech.
57
::There's lots of parallels
there to improv, for example.
58
::That's for sure.
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::But to be clear, no hate here for cishet
white men, some of whom have been some
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::of the most supportive to me of any
demographic when the hard shit happens.
61
::Just that our communities generally
need more diversity in the voices,
62
::in comedy, and in all of improv.
63
::And actual meaningful support for
those voices doing the work, not just
64
::saying that you do that thing, but
actually supporting the diverse voices.
65
::So I'm not angry, not at all.
66
::Make em ups isn't worth the
stress and hit on my health.
67
::To hold that anger, so I don't, but we
still need more voices, more support.
68
::So I'm writing some suggestions
about protecting ourselves in this
69
::space, so that we, we the others,
can have more of a much deserved
70
::and necessary voice in comedy.
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::To have a seat at whatever
tables are out there.
72
::So this is me observing, listening,
sharing what I've learned, In trying to
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::take care of myself, and trying to avoid
viral infections, and I'm spending time
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::with two kittens called Shortstack and Dr.
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::Crepes to take care of myself.
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::You can see their photo
in the written article.
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::You can find the link in the show notes.
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::Anyways, about The
forthcoming suggestions.
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::I think it's important to make the
kinds of observations I'm making
80
::in this episode and just to check
in on yourself from time to time.
81
::I'm doing this regularly myself
and I think that it helps to do so.
82
::So I thought I'd share what I do.
83
::I mean, why not?
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::If it's helpful to people.
85
::Checking in on yourself in whatever
spaces you're participating in, I
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::think is good for mental health.
87
::And most days mine is pretty crap.
88
::So it's important that the things
that we love, the things that are
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::supposed to help us don't contribute
to messing up mental health.
90
::And if it does do that, if it
does mess it up, do whatever you
91
::can to stop that from happening.
92
::Even if you have to pivot out of that
space that's making that thing happen.
93
::Some important notes about the
10 suggestions I'm about to make.
94
::Some of these suggestions might
contradict themselves, or they might
95
::leave out really important points.
96
::This is all really confusing stuff.
97
::It's highly personal, highly unique,
and in this case is sort of limited to
98
::one person's experience in brain wiring.
99
::So, I heartily welcome you to add your
own observations about these suggestions,
100
::or your own suggestions, in the comments.
101
::You can do this anonymously if
you want, from like a throwaway
102
::account, that's perfectly fine.
103
::Whatever.
104
::Is the most comfortable
thing for you to do.
105
::Some of these suggestions might sound
like I'm telling you to run away from
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::issues, but I am not advocating that.
107
::And I'm not suggesting that we
avoid addressing problems in comedy.
108
::Quite the opposite.
109
::These suggestions involve sticking
within your community, but empowering
110
::yourself whilst doing so by forming,
say, new projects or outlets or
111
::something else like that as an option.
112
::Or while addressing the problematic
stuff, if that's even applicable.
113
::And, as always, all of these
suggestions are not universal.
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::Lots of nuance.
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::All ten, they are suggestions from
an autistic brain, even though
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::they are not worded as such.
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::These are worded like demands,
because it's what I ask of
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::myself, what I use to check in.
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::Demands on myself.
120
::But they are not demands for you.
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::So take a suggestion, if you think
it's helpful and applies to you.
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::Ignore it, if it doesn't.
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::And as always, don't replace this
article or the site for working with
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::a professional if you need to do so.
125
::You deserve compassion and respect,
no matter where you are with either
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::your mental health or your neurotype.
127
::So, here are 10 suggestions for
taking care of yourself in comedy.
128
::Suggestion 1.
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::Be yourself and don't compromise on it.
130
::Accept yourself.
131
::Be true to yourself.
132
::Be honest with yourself.
133
::Can you do comedy without having
to change yourself much or at all,
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::just to fit in and feel accepted?
135
::If something doesn't feel right or
good about the type of comedy you're
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::practicing, or you need to be someone
else to be accepted, respected, and
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::participate in it, see if you can do
something else somewhere else in your
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::practice, or some other type of comedy,
or maybe something comedy adjacent,
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::or another creative pursuit entirely.
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::I'm giving you permission.
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::It's okay to leave or step away from a
class, a team, a performance, a community
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::or theater, even a whole art form.
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::If it's not working for you, if
it's not respecting you or not
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::accepting you as you, more on that,
but you can step away at any time.
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::If the activity is not bringing you
at least some sense of positivity
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::for whatever reason you started
doing it in the first place, or
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::whatever you discovered along the
way, the thing that was your passion.
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::Doing that activity, such as
improv or stand up or podcasting,
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::should bring value to your life.
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::We have limited days, a very finite time
here on earth, so don't spend that time
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::on what's usually or mostly a hobby.
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::A hobby that costs you money and
time and sometimes even hard labor.
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::If it's just bringing you pain?
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::Just there are many other hobbies
that we can try instead that are
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::actually beneficial and relaxing to
our brains Heck if even if it isn't
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::a hobby for you, it should still at
least be benefit you in some way.
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::So find your space and
prioritize the good.
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::If you're neurodivergent, this might
mean finding a space, a team, a task,
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::or a type of comedy that is safe
enough to unmask and just be yourself.
160
::You're supposed to enjoy comedy,
not be abused or exploited by it.
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::If you don't benefit Bend yourself
to the point of almost breaking.
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::And like I mentioned before, you can
always leave a class, a team, a show.
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::You can ask for a refund.
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::You can avoid an unsupportive
organization and so on.
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::You can do these things to
support other comedians, too.
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::You don't need to stay in
the environment and suffer.
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::Vote for what you want to see
with your wallet or your time.
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::I'm sure I'll say
something like this again.
169
::And this isn't running away
or not confronting a problem.
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::That's good too, if you're willing
and able to take that burden
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::on, hopefully with the support
of other people in that space.
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::More specifically about
that in suggestion seven.
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::And I kind of, I touch upon it in
several of the other suggestions as well.
174
::But prioritize beneficial people,
beneficial activities, and spaces in
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::your life that support you as you.
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::Advocate if you can, or try to find
an activity or space that does, or
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::form the coaching group, the writer's
room, the class, or the team yourself.
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::It might be easier than you think.
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::Suggestion 2.
180
::Take care of yourself first for others.
181
::You should do comedy for you first.
182
::Even though comedy can be a team
or a group activity, it's important
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::to take care of yourself first.
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::And this isn't selfish to do.
185
::Taking care of yourself is doing
improv or comedy for others.
186
::It benefits your team, your
community, and your creativity too.
187
::If you don't enjoy what you're doing, What
you are doing in the moment, you might
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::be doing it for validation from others.
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::That external validation, like validation
from the art form or the project itself.
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::More about what this
means in Suggestion 9.
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::And if you're looking for that external
validation, it might never make you happy.
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::And not being happy means you might not be
showing up as your best for others either.
193
::But more importantly, showing up
for your own brain and yourself.
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::So it's okay and good to do your own
project, to direct or produce your own
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::show, to create your own practice groups,
your own writer's rooms or classes even,
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::to say set up a rotating or defined roles
on a team or in a project to set that up.
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::You don't need to do these next
things in order to be successful.
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::You don't need to follow
the ideology or the system.
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::You don't need to climb and impress
the social ranks in the community.
200
::You don't need to be in the popular show
or sit at the cool table after a set.
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::You don't need to create something
that others think is neat.
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::You just want to create something
that you think is neat yourself.
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::You don't need to be someone
or something that you're not.
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::So help out others.
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::Be in the project without the roles if
you want, or be in someone else's thing.
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::It's really fun, but it's also okay to
do your own shit or to organize teams
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::in a unique or new to you way or new to
the community way, however and whatever
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::works, whatever is best for everyone
there, and that includes you too.
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::So be creative.
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::Make those suggestions, talk.
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::If you are doing the work, it's
not selfish to have an ask, to
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::have your own project you manage,
how you want to, or to direct the
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::team's show if everyone's on board.
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::If you are doing the work, you can own
or manage that work so the laborer has
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::the best chance at success sometimes.
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::Just make sure To communicate clearly
and discuss if other people are involved.
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::So everyone is on the same page and that
means they can agree or adjust or opt out
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::themselves or move on themselves, etc.
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::And if it's your own project, keep
an open mind and try other people's
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::ideas that will work with your vision.
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::And sometimes it can make
that vision even better.
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::Supporting yourself is supporting others.
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::And it's supporting the
team, if there's a team.
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::Supporting yourself is
supporting the scene and the set.
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::I think that this is part of a
great way, of many ways, to help
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::create a healthier comedy community.
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::Suggestion 3.
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::Yeah.
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::Find your joy source,
but be open to pivoting.
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::Find what you like to do in comedy.
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::What practice, what format,
what style works for your brain.
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::Think about how you prefer
to think and communicate.
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::What type of comedy lets you
be honest and show up as you.
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::The right comedy for you might not be
the first type you try, or it might
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::be the right thing for you to do.
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::Is outside of comedy entirely.
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::Is it drama, animation,
writing, voice work?
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::Dog walking, naps, go find
your humans, what meshes with
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::your brain and makes it flow.
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::Go to where the people get you.
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::These creative skills are pretty
transferable, so don't be afraid to
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::just try something out and see how the
skills apply to that new thing, the
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::skills that you've already built up.
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::So trying new things.
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::I know it's hard to try
something that's different.
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::It's hard to start something
new or to leave a community even
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::partially or temporarily, but finding
something better and more aligned
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::to your values can be worth it.
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::So those finite days remember, and you
can always go back fully or partially
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::with a fresh perspective and more skills.
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::It's a healthy thing to do.
252
::I came to improv from dance fitness
teaching and community theater.
253
::There's lots of overlap with
improv in these communities
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::and learning and performance.
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::I go back to it in a heartbeat if I
could actually, but the point here
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::is making the pivot wasn't quite
as hard as I Thought it would be.
257
::In fact, when I started improv, I
didn't observe the skill overlap.
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::I didn't even understand
it for at least a year.
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::And when I did the skills suddenly
transferred and it felt great.
260
::So search to find that joy
and hold on when you find it.
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::And if one day it seems
to disappear, assess.
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::Pivot, get out of there, even
if it's just for a while to
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::find yourself and take a breath.
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::You don't need to keep doing
the joyless thing, and you can
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::always return later to try again.
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::This is so important for me.
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::Re evaluate often and don't be afraid
to make changes if you need to for your
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::health or to find or reignite a passion.
269
::Suggestion four, find
the humans who value you.
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::And the ones who don't
compete with your passion.
271
::We often don't feel accepted as
autistic humans, for example.
272
::It's important to find
the people who value you.
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::For you.
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::As you.
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::Not the ones who only value you for your
talents, not the ones who only value
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::you for what you can maybe do for them.
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::Not the ones who only value you
for your work ethic or your output.
278
::The ones who value just
you for you, the human.
279
::That's what you're looking for.
280
::Those who accept you are often humans who
share your values in an understanding of
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::the community, probably in a social sense.
282
::This was abundantly true for me
in the dance fitness instructor
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::community, for example.
284
::We vastly differed on why
we were doing the activity.
285
::Find people who share your why.
286
::And keep your circles open when you
spot other humans who share similar
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::values, and welcome them in if you can.
288
::There's a yes but involved.
289
::I'm no expert on this.
290
::I'm often on the outside looking in
or from the fringe edge of the edge of
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::multiple spaces, multiple, you know,
friend circles or groups or whatever.
292
::Always hoping deep down to
be accepted into that circle.
293
::I think it's the autistic
experience for many of us.
294
::So I want to say here, though, I don't
want Pity, nor do I want any pity at
295
::all, like I just don't want, I think
it's quite comforting and beneficial
296
::to at least be aware of this though,
because if you aren't it's easy to, you
297
::know, just make yourself useful to try
to get accepted into these spaces and
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::that's a fast path to being exploited.
299
::See suggestion six for more on that.
300
::Just do it.
301
::Don't compete.
302
::Your passion isn't competition.
303
::In performance and creative spaces,
sometimes just sharing your joy
304
::for comedy is seen as something to
be jealous of, or to compete with.
305
::And I'm asking, if you see someone in your
life, innocently sharing their passion
306
::for their work, something they did.
307
::Let them talk a bit about it.
308
::It's not necessarily bragging or showing
off or something to be jealous of.
309
::It probably has nothing to do with you.
310
::That project or set could have
been difficult, hard won, A big
311
::accomplishment for that person and
maybe they just have been waiting
312
::all week to have the topic brought
up so they could share it a little.
313
::Maybe you are the only person
they can talk shop with.
314
::So check egos at the door on both
sides of this kind of conversation.
315
::But mostly just try to keep in mind
someone else's joy and comedy and their
316
::accomplishments are not your competition.
317
::And your wins aren't for them
to mentally compete with.
318
::Life is so much easier with this.
319
::Kind of mindset, I find.
320
::Find your humans who don't
compete with your joy and value
321
::you for who you are as a human.
322
::And everyone, just cheer
on those hard wins.
323
::There's so Hard wins are hard to come
by in comedy, so let's cheer them on.
324
::Suggestion five.
325
::Ignore the gatekeepers
and find your confidence.
326
::The latter isn't real, unless you
want to believe in the latter.
327
::This is an art.
328
::There are so many ways to do it,
and there isn't a set criteria on
329
::how to get there, how long it takes,
or what way you need to do it.
330
::And, gasp, you don't need to
be a cishet white man to climb
331
::it or seek proper compensation.
332
::Actually, you don't need to climb
it at all if you don't want to.
333
::You don't have to believe in the latter.
334
::Sure, yes, there is knowledge,
expertise, and experience.
335
::Absolutely respect worthy.
336
::I respect that so much.
337
::I mean, autism, you respect knowledge and
intelligence and expertise and everything.
338
::But it's also about.
339
::You, the human, in all of your atypical
glory, with all of your prior acquired
340
::skill sets, your unique voice, your
experiences in comedy and other
341
::places, and talents too, they're
very relevant in this space as well,
342
::and you deserve to offer them to,
and you deserve respect for them.
343
::So, you are walking the walk.
344
::What now?
345
::You're doing the work.
346
::You found your people.
347
::Remember that gatekeepers will
gatekeep for mysterious reasons.
348
::Sometimes even when they purport
to be on the same team and
349
::value the same stuff as you.
350
::Pay the gatekeepers no heed.
351
::They will always be there.
352
::Stay true to yourself.
353
::Be honest to your craft and march
on that path that you believe in.
354
::As long as damage isn't being done.
355
::That atypical path you make for you
is right for comedy and right for you.
356
::Keep your eyes and mind open with honesty
and respect in your heart, but walk or
357
::strut that path with your head held high.
358
::Confidence is hard.
359
::Finding confidence in the arts
is remarkably hard, especially
360
::now, especially when you might
be alone because, you know,
361
::marginalized, isolated, whatever.
362
::How do you even know what
you're doing is a walk at all?
363
::But you deserve to be here and do
comedy, even if you haven't found
364
::where you want to be quite yet.
365
::Even if someone is jealous of your hard
work, or someone else doesn't think
366
::you're doing comedy the typical correct
way, or come up with some other reason
367
::you shouldn't be doing what you're
doing, you still deserve to do comedy.
368
::You are always enough.
369
::And your voice is
valuable, and it matters.
370
::There is no comedy god, even if
there's some compelling educational
371
::branding and emotional tithes to pay.
372
::Suggestion six.
373
::Protect your value.
374
::I'm saying this from the standpoint
of over a couple decades in
375
::corporate tech and online creative
work as opposed to comedy.
376
::It's the same in that space as
it often is in comedy, from what
377
::I've observed from the comedic
sidelines, comparatively speaking.
378
::Your value isn't tied to your
experience level in comedy.
379
::If you're doing other work,
such as stuff that supports the
380
::industry, that brings in cash.
381
::Money's trading hands.
382
::You quite likely bring much
more than your comedy skills to
383
::the table when you're working.
384
::If money is exchanging hands, you
are worth compensation for the task
385
::that you're doing, not based on your
skill level in comedy or where you
386
::are in some imaginary social order.
387
::Financial promises or anything
else you might be shooting for,
388
::acceptance, respect, exposure, etc.
389
::are not likely to materialize down the
road if you're working for free today.
390
::Suggestion seven, communicate
openly and in good faith.
391
::Make sure you're acting in good faith.
392
::Check in with yourself.
393
::What's your motivation in
whatever issue is happening?
394
::Be honest.
395
::Do you want more stage time to correct
an honest problem, get someone off
396
::the team you just don't vibe with,
or improve the ethics of a community?
397
::Even in the name of disability and
inclusion, it's very easy to forget
398
::people are from different backgrounds,
different places on a spectrum, or
399
::just don't have the knowledge in
something that is obvious to you.
400
::Do we understand the motivation
behind the trait, for example?
401
::Do we understand that person's
background, culture, education,
402
::upbringing, when they were upbrought?
403
::Level of exposure to new
social norms, for example?
404
::Are we giving them that space?
405
::Listen and take necessary breaks.
406
::Have patience, educate and explain.
407
::Listen and stay in good faith.
408
::It's very easy and honestly
quite understandable for passion
409
::to get in the way of fairness.
410
::Performers are often a passionate lot.
411
::That's good.
412
::But we have to try and not let bad faith
occur and instead Listen hard and learn.
413
::Listen without returning
to previous assumptions.
414
::Listen to the explanation and don't
ignore it to return to an original
415
::point, an initial take or belief.
416
::Take the explanations you hear
as good faith unless and until
417
::you have good reason to believe
something is not in good faith.
418
::Ask questions, listen more.
419
::Taking breaks to check in with
yourself is good too, and do fight
420
::for improving our communities.
421
::Just make sure to keep the conversations
fair to everyone involved, maintain
422
::good faith conversations, and be honest
at all times for a beneficial outcome.
423
::Avoiding diagnoses and labels
based on behaviours is important.
424
::Since this is a NeuroDivergent
series, I think this is probably
425
::important to mention right now.
426
::Be cautious of using labels or
diagnoses when discussing these issues.
427
::People can be complicated.
428
::Internal motivations, such as
what motivated the display of an
429
::external trait, among many other
things, need to be considered before
430
::a formal diagnosis can be made.
431
::biomedical professional.
432
::For example, two people can seem to
lack empathy as an external trait,
433
::that's something that you see.
434
::Only one of those two humans might
actually lack empathy though,
435
::although both seem to on the outside.
436
::So determining where that external trait
is coming from, that isn't our job.
437
::Motivations are usually unknown to us.
438
::And any kind of diagnosis is not
appropriate to ask about when
439
::holding community discussions.
440
::For example, an external trait can be
shared amongst several diagnoses and the
441
::diagnostic manual, the DSM, even a batch
of them can span more than one diagnoses.
442
::But the internal motivators, like I
said, are One of the most important
443
::criteria for figuring out what the
diagnosis is, among many other factors.
444
::Again, I am not a professional.
445
::I'll do one more case here.
446
::Neurodivergent humans are sometimes
thought to be under the influence of
447
::alcohol when we're completely sober.
448
::Same external trait.
449
::completely different
internal or invisible cause.
450
::That's why it's really important
not to make those assumptions here.
451
::So of course punishing someone in the
community for their diagnosis or a crisis
452
::or something else or forcing them to
expose the cause, that's not great either.
453
::So we want to avoid these things and
be very careful about assuming any
454
::kind of root cause for an external
behavior or an external trait.
455
::Focus on the results of an action
and what needs to change to make our
456
::spaces more beneficial to everyone.
457
::So be cautious about making
those assumptions about what
458
::might be seen as problematic
behaviors without open thinking.
459
::and careful communication.
460
::Again, have the conversation.
461
::There's so much crap and abuse and
old ways and comedy amongst everything
462
::else, and we really need to have
these discussions to see the growth.
463
::So talk, listen, and try to
meet each other in and maintain
464
::good faith conversations.
465
::Check in.
466
::With our personal motivations, honestly
and regularly, notice them and communicate
467
::openly while focusing on ourselves and our
own motivations, keeping them in check.
468
::If the discussion is shut down
or avoided, you don't have
469
::to stay in that environment.
470
::You don't have to finish the
series or stick with the theater.
471
::You don't have to start your
own theater to stay in comedy.
472
::There's a million different
avenues that you can take.
473
::But I hope community discussions
can start in good faith and maintain
474
::that honesty and happen more often.
475
::I know I was repetitive there,
but that's so important.
476
::I think, you know, it's maybe worth it.
477
::I hope you agree.
478
::Suggestion eight, ask for
or seek accommodations.
479
::Speak up and ask for accommodations
and access needs in any way you
480
::feel comfortable when you need them.
481
::If you're not comfortable, ask
for a different way to communicate
482
::that does make you comfortable.
483
::Maybe it's using an anonymous form or
messaging from an anonymous email address
484
::or getting someone else to do it for you.
485
::Seeking accommodations helps
normalize it for your future
486
::self and for other people too.
487
::And it's really important in this section
to talk about advocating for other people.
488
::If you Don't need accommodations made,
you're lucky, or you're in a place, uh,
489
::to suggest them or make them a reality.
490
::Maybe you're running the
theater or something, do it.
491
::It's wonderful for those of us with access
needs to not have to do the labor of self
492
::advocating to seek them all the time.
493
::This is a true ally, actually
walking the walk with us and for us.
494
::Helping us out.
495
::For example, add a text area on
your registration form to add access
496
::needs without needing to be asked
for this by someone in the community.
497
::Your improv friend has difficulty
with a certain icebreaker.
498
::Suggest a different one
without outing them.
499
::Don't mention their name.
500
::Some of the things are as simple as that.
501
::Don't wait to be asked.
502
::Don't leave all the advocacy
to the marginalized.
503
::That's the key thing.
504
::If you can do it, do it.
505
::And even when things
get more serious, like.
506
::Say there's a problematic
coach or teacher.
507
::Speak up or support the discussion
for the person that's experiencing
508
::that problem, as highlighted in the
previous suggestion number seven.
509
::But sometimes there's
conflicting access needs.
510
::If you ask for something to be
accommodated by an individual,
511
::especially, see if that adjustment
works for their needs too.
512
::Sometimes we might need to tackle
the accommodation from both sides.
513
::If that adjustment places
stress on that person's end,
514
::you might have some conflicting.
515
::Access needs that you need to work out,
but there's often ways to work within
516
::the bounds of both parties needs open to
discussion and figure out something that
517
::works and These conflicting access needs
it can be true in group environments as
518
::well such as classes and theaters the
more people the more conflict But if
519
::we're open to working together oftentimes,
we can make some changes that benefit
520
::a greater number of humans over time.
521
::Suggestion nine, analyze where value comes
from, especially if you're depressed.
522
::So, I'm a dysthymic human.
523
::For me, that means mild to
moderate depression since I was 12.
524
::Persistent depression is common
for autistic humans, and depressed
525
::humans, neurodivergent or not,
are also not uncommon in comedy.
526
::I know there's a lot of us here.
527
::So I'm giving this topic a
suggestion all of its own.
528
::Number 9 is for us.
529
::Try to find the value in the activity.
530
::Doing comedy.
531
::Wow.
532
::You're doing it.
533
::This is especially true, or so I've
been told, if you experience dysthymia.
534
::So what does that mean?
535
::It means don't try to find happiness
in what others think of your comedy.
536
::Like how good you are at it.
537
::Don't try to find happiness in
what your comedy or the comedy
538
::work provides other people.
539
::Like proving your value to
others, making yourself useful.
540
::Don't try to find happiness in the project
itself being done well or to your liking.
541
::Like I wrote the perfect pilot and the
great font don't use the project as
542
::that external validator That's hard
find value or happiness in the process
543
::itself during creation of the comedy
What doing the activity brings to you.
544
::You're looking for what that is.
545
::If you look to the external, like
the output, the project itself,
546
::or other people for approval,
yes, even the project or activity
547
::itself, it can potentially keep you
in that depressed dysthymic state.
548
::Why?
549
::Because you're still looking to that
external thing, like the improv set or
550
::your finished podcast episode for joy.
551
::And that's just not going to help
you out because it's external.
552
::Some of it can be external, but some of
it has to be internal from the activity.
553
::Make sure you get value while you perform.
554
::While you take the class, while you
socialize after the set, the act of
555
::doing comedy while you're spending your
minutes and hours doing it should be
556
::beneficial to your life in some way, not
the end thing that you get out of it.
557
::And if not, don't be afraid to say no
and pivot until you do find something
558
::that gives value to your life while
you perform, while you do the thing.
559
::It doesn't have to be everything,
but it has to be something.
560
::Me, I'm still working on this.
561
::It's hard.
562
::It's so fucking hard.
563
::And finally, suggestion 10,
value your mental health.
564
::Value it like your life depends
on it above all other things.
565
::Do whatever you need to keep
your mental health as good as
566
::you possibly can, whatever that
is, whatever it means to you.
567
::We all know improv is not therapy,
comedy is not therapy, so we need
568
::to make sure we walk that walk and
find outside help when we need it.
569
::Or, take that much needed break.
570
::Because things like
autistic burnout are deadly.
571
::So is depression, and so is
loneliness and isolation.
572
::Well, it can be.
573
::Uh, and especially if you won
the lottery on all of the above.
574
::It can be deadly.
575
::Couple that with improv stress and you
might light the fuse to a powder keg.
576
::And that's no good.
577
::No one wants that.
578
::If you experience any of those
conditions, protect yourself, whatever
579
::way you need, whatever you do, whatever
practice or art form or hobby, it's
580
::not worth taking you seriously.
581
::Away.
582
::And of course, as a reminder,
these activities are not therapy.
583
::It's not where you want
to be working this out.
584
::You want to work it out
with a professional.
585
::Anyways, that's why I made these
suggestions for myself to check in, to be
586
::my own advocate for myself, advocate for
yourself as much as you do for others.
587
::Or more.
588
::Because the others might not have
your back when you need it most.
589
::Just call a friend or a family, they say.
590
::And so many of us autistics give that
response the lifelong side A, right?
591
::Other humans are hard to rely on.
592
::So have your own back
preemptively, if you can.
593
::You know yourself best.
594
::Try to take this shit into your
own hands and own it, if you can.
595
::And always remember, people who seem
okay on the outside are sometimes not.
596
::Especially when we're doing
comedy and acting and performing
597
::and masking our own autism.
598
::We can sometimes be pretty good at
covering this stuff up until we're not.
599
::So check in on your friends if you
got them and let them check in on you.
600
::So try to take care of yourself.
601
::Try to take care of your mind, that
beautiful neurodivergent mind of
602
::yours and try to take care of others.
603
::Support what you value in the
community to keep it there for
604
::you and for others for longer.
605
::Support those people who value you
over the system and being seen.
606
::Value yourself, not the latter.
607
::Stick with those who value
you, not what you might be
608
::able to do for them, you know?
609
::But what do I know?
610
::I'm just some random autistic who
doesn't understand social stuff or
611
::people, so take everything I just said
with an extra large grain of salt.
612
::I have no idea if my time of
duress brought any clarity.
613
::Maybe this whole list of
suggestions is a great big mess.
614
::But I will end on that
human note, actually.
615
::This list of suggestions was originally
written on a dark day of mine in
616
::the middle of a four year autistic
burnout and significant depression.
617
::After the dark, I sometimes have a
little bit more clarity on this tough
618
::stuff, so I kept what I wrote in case
it was true this time around, and
619
::it was this list of suggestions, and
I'll let you decide on that part.
620
::But I thought about these things a lot
in the weeks that followed that day.
621
::I maybe even started to heal a little bit.
622
::And then, of course, another really
major crisis unfolded in my life.
623
::My biggest one yet in life,
in all of my years, which have
624
::contained some pretty big ones.
625
::And it unfolded as I was sitting at
what I thought was the bottom Of my
626
::depression ravine and all of this
has happened whilst mostly alone
627
::after just losing most of my Special
interest community of humans and work.
628
::I loved and activities for a second
time in the past four years Thank you
629
::ongoing pandemic, which is all to say
how important it is to be proactive
630
::about this kind of mental stuff.
631
::Don't push Protecting your brain to
another day or another week start
632
::taking care of yourself today If
you aren't or just try If you can.
633
::Even if you do a little, it might help
when the next big thing comes your way.
634
::I think my little bit of healing,
maybe, maybe, helped me in the
635
::early days of this crisis of mine.
636
::But like, don't do a
crisis to have clarity.
637
::Hell no!
638
::Of course not!
639
::But it's good to analyze your situation
when you can in whatever state you're in.
640
::Different states afford
different perspectives.
641
::So use What you got.
642
::And that's all.
643
::So there you go.
644
::I don't know how this episode
and article will come off.
645
::Relatable, complaining, full
of misery, or angry, or too
646
::vulnerable, or too this, or too that.
647
::But I want to assure you, I'm not angry.
648
::I don't want to complain, and would
very much dislike any form of pity.
649
::But at any rate, I'm not angry.
650
::Some of you won't be happy you're like
this, I guess, and I'm okay with that,
651
::because I've enjoyed working on it, and
I'm trying to refuse to define success
652
::or purpose from the project itself in my
attempt to be a little bit less dysthymic.
653
::Suggestion 9, baby.
654
::But I should say, in transparency,
this whole podcast is not
655
::my comfort zone by a mile.
656
::It's scary and ridiculously uncomfortable
to be this vulnerable, even though it's
657
::a small niche podcast not heard by many.
658
::Even when I do the mundane ones, it's
still really hard to be this vulnerable,
659
::but I'm going to be honest with you
no matter what, because honesty is
660
::the only thing that works here when
we're talking about improving our own
661
::minds, communities, and communication.
662
::And this podcast is just from
now on, at least going to be
663
::about what I want to talk about.
664
::As a recently passed middle age
autistic ADHD human with roving intense
665
::interests, I've been formally trained
in and embedded in many communities
666
::on a fairly comprehensive scale.
667
::And from that I can say, comedy
is a wildly strange community.
668
::It's a beast of its own, despite giving,
you know, retro Silicon Valley vibes.
669
::Let's keep our neurodivergent
minds safer here.
670
::And take care.
671
::All right.
672
::So that was our episode
number 22 for this week.
673
::Uh, as of now, and you may have
noticed, the podcast has a new name,
674
::Neurodivergent Minds in Comedy.
675
::But the podcast and the Neurodiversity
in Improv site covers the same kind of
676
::stuff, just with a slightly greater focus
on neurodivergence and a slightly wider
677
::lens to performance and writing in comedy.
678
::And as I mentioned, I'm
going to talk about just what
679
::interests me and what I like.
680
::To do in the name of dysthymia
suggestion number nine, the podcast
681
::on its own will have its own domain
and site neurodivergentcomedy.
682
::com and the current site and
bonus resources will remain the
683
::same and continue to be focused
on neurodiversity and improv.
684
::You can follow the releases of the
podcast and those bonus resources in
685
::the neurodiversity in improv newsletter.
686
::Or the one on Stereo Forest
if you just want the episodes.
687
::Podcast and bonus materials.
688
::The, I might schedule a bit of
a shift, it's pending at the
689
::time of recording this podcast.
690
::So, about the next episode.
691
::They're released about every second
week on Tuesdays or late on Mondays.
692
::And if I take any breaks or
pauses, I'll mention them in
693
::the show notes and the episodes.
694
::And finally, if you find this
podcast useful, consider sharing
695
::the episode with your friends.
696
::Transcribed And, or rate and
review on Apple podcasts.
697
::And if you're able to support
this work at neurodiversityimprov.
698
::com, especially if it helps
your work or adds value to your
699
::practice, it's really appreciated.
700
::Any of these things will help me
continue spending the time and the labor
701
::and the resources to keep it going.
702
::If you do become a paid supporter,
again, you get those special extra
703
::resources that might help your work
in comedy and gain insight about
704
::learning as a neurodivergent human.
705
::And it supports again,
this podcast, keep going.
706
::So surveys, I have surveys available.
707
::If you would like to share your voice with
others who listen to this podcast, you
708
::can find those surveys at stereoforest.
709
::com slash neurodiversity.
710
::I'd love to have your
insights, your voice.
711
::on this podcast.
712
::And finally I created
and I write this podcast.
713
::It's also edited and produced by
Stereo Forest, which is also me.
714
::All of these links and a few more
will be available in the show notes.
715
::Thanks.
716
::And I'll talk at you later.
