A PA degree and a public health degree at the same time. That's Touro University California.

Joy Moverley directs the joint MSPAS/MPH program, and I wanted to understand who this is actually for. Because it's not for everyone, and that's fine.

The idea is that a lot of what makes your patients sick isn't happening in your exam room. Housing, food access, transportation, income. A PA who's trained in public health walks in already thinking about those things instead of learning it the hard way ten years in.

Joy talks about how their curriculum builds that in, including lifestyle coaching for diabetes prevention - teaching students to actually change patient behavior rather than just prescribe and hope.

The program is built around community engagement and serving diverse populations. If that's the medicine you want to practice, look at this one carefully.

What we cover:

• What a joint MSPAS/MPH program covers and how long it takes
• Social determinants of health in a PA curriculum
• Lifestyle coaching and diabetes prevention training
• Who this dual-degree path fits and who it doesn't
• Touro's approach to community engagement and inclusivity
• What Joy looks for in an applicant

Resources:

PA Program Map: https://www.thepaplatform.com/pa-platform-map

Free PA School Application Timeline: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/free-application-timeline

PA School Interview Guide: https://www.thepaplatform.com/physician-assistant-school-interview-guide

Pre-PA Counseling: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/pre-pa-counseling

Mentioned in this episode:

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I am honored today to have the program director of Touro University, California joining us on the podcast to share all of her insights and experience.

You are going to love hearing from Joy Moverle.

So let's get into it.

Welcome to the Pre PA Club Podcast.

If you want to learn how to become a physician assistant, you're in the right place.

I'm your host.

So, Savannah Perry, let's get to it.

Happy New Year and welcome to the Prepa Club Podcast.

I'm Savannah Perry, your host of the Prepa Club, and so happy to have you here joining us and listening today.

If you can't tell, I have a little bit of a cold, so losing my voice.

It was a little bit better when.

I was interviewing Joy, but still not great.

So that's fun.

I feel like everybody's sick right now.

Lovely.

But thank you for being here.

We will get into our interview so.

You'll hear from Joy.

Like I said, she's a program director at Toro University and I just love getting to speak with people who are passionate about the next generation of PAs and education academics.

That is definitely what Joy is doing as well.

So I think you're going to enjoy it.

If you have any questions about Toro University, I'll put some information in the description that she sent to me as far as, like, their info sessions and such.

But always feel free to reach out to programs.

That's why they're there.

They want to help you, they want to answer your questions and make sure you're as prepared as possible.

So don't be scared to reach out directly to them.

And I'm always happy to answer questions.

Also, one thing I wanted to mention is it is mid January and in just a couple of weeks we're going to be starting our Pre PA Academy.

So this is a group coaching program where we will have a cohort of students that works together from February through October to get your application ready, submitted, get you ready for interviews and and through every step, make sure you are.

As good as you can.

Get the best.

Like, we are going to get acceptances.

We had our first little meeting, kind of Pre Academy meeting last week and it was awesome.

Like, made me so excited to get to know everyone.

And a lot of the things I heard in that meeting was that applicants are looking for support, community and accountability.

And that is what we are here for.

So we're going to have three to four sessions a week that will be with myself and the other coaches where we will be teaching, doing group work, doing live personal statement edits, live mock Interviews throughout the process to get you ready and again, holding each other accountable, building support.

And we'll have a Facebook group.

There will be a lot of resources.

It's not one on one, but there will be some opportunities for discounted one on one services.

You can, you can always use the code Future PA for a discount on our services, but this will be even more than that.

And you do get a copy of the pre PA workbook, the personal statement guide and the interview guide.

But yeah, so it's going to be fun.

If you have any questions about that, let me know and then we will link to that in the description as well.

If you'd like to sign up, you can use the code.

What is it?

Welcome 24 for $50 off of registration for Academy.

And that program will run February through October.

You don't have to attend all the sess.

I should clarify that they will be recorded.

There'll be replays so you can go to ones that are just relevant to you or watch them later if you can't attend.

And we have some things in place that you can submit questions and essays ahead of time to make sure those get reviewed.

All right, let's get into hearing from Joy and I hope everyone has had a good week.

So my name is Joy Moverly.

I've been a PA for now 12 years.

So I come from North Carolina originally and I feel like North Carolina is the birthplace of pas.

My neighbor at my grandmother's house, Gary, he was a PA and probably from the age of 10, he was like, Joy, you should be a PA. You should be a PA.

I was like, no, I'm going to be a physical therapist.

Finally got into PT school and moved to California.

That's how I ended up where I am now.

And last second I was like, you know what?

I really do want to be a pa. And what kind of solidified that.

And much to Gary's chagrin, my neighbor was that I was rotating in the hospital with a hospital pt and this amazing PA at an academic institution came by and was like, hey, I got some something cool to show you.

And I was like, cool, let's see.

And so they took me in to do a bone marrow biopsy and really just explained all of the things that they do and their role in medicine.

And I had been well exposed to PAs.

I had seen a PA kind of growing up.

I knew PAs and I just was like so bored in the hospital with the PT service I was on.

And I realized, you know what, Gary was right.

I should go in the PA profession and I was already academically ready to go to PT school.

Lots of similar prereqs but I had to change my patient care hours.

I graduated the University of North Carolina with an exercise sport science degree and worked in diabetes education and nutrition prior to being a pa. That's always been my passion is metabolic syndrome and diseases related to it.

I worked for a few years at a community clinic giving free diabetes education.

I did it for a living and got paid for it as well.

But that was the bulk of my passion was and how my early career started as a pre PA was getting those hours up.

I also had because of going the PT route, had a ton of pre PT hours to count for my clinical experience.

A silly way to go about becoming a PA to be honest, but definitely had that light bulb moment of oh my gosh, I chose the wrong career.

And my neighbor that saw me grow up literally was telling me, I hate to tell you, but I told you so.

So about a million times.

It worked out.

It worked out.

That's just funny.

My one of my best friends in PA school had a similar story.

She was pre pt, had done all this stuff.

She was an athlete and I think athletes tend to sometimes go towards that route.

And she had started applying, did a little bit more shadowing and found out about pa, got more involved and saw PAS working and said I'm going to switch pads.

And she applied to our program.

This was many years ago guys, but she applied the week before the deadline.

Just like a Hail Mary, let's see what happens.

And got in and we were very good friends.

But yeah, I shadowed PT some.

I feel bad saying it was boring, but it was very repetitive, which all medicine I think is.

But it was just very repetitive doing the same thing all day, working with patients over and over, which was nice.

But yeah, it wasn't for me either.

It just, yeah, I think some of.

The great things that PTs do and we can learn a lot from is they get to establish this really in depth relationship sometimes with patients over weeks and months and they really, I feel like get to know their story and get to really hear some intimate details.

But what I just didn't enjoy about the PT profession for me was just not able to really treat the full person.

They really had to focus more on the musculoskeletal diseases and I think having that more narrow scope made me a little bit less interested as it approached the time to start PT school.

It definitely gave me a solid background having worked in primary care for a lot of my Career, lots of sports medicine and orthopedics come in the door.

So being able to give therapeutic exercise.

For example, the patients that, that I see in kind of Northern California, they may not be able to get to PT.

It may be a 45 minute drive, but they don't have a car.

Then they don't have the bus routes easily to get to pt.

And who has three hours to go one way on a bus to get to pt?

So a lot of my patients I was finding couldn't even get there.

And so luckily my background, I was able to give every so often some therapeutic exercises that I learned as an athletic training major.

And my coursework in undergrad really paid off and I was able to occasionally give some basic stretches and make some recommendations that are of course within the scope of a PA to do so.

It's been such a rewarding career to still have a huge appreciation for my PT colleagues, but know that I make the right decision for me crossing the other side.

As far as my career though, I started off in family medicine but never really left for University California, which is where I went.

Okay, I, the joke with my faculty was the day after I graduated they were like, see you at work.

Because I came and helped with the skills lab and I literally just went from half a day a week to few years of one day a week and then two days a week, three days a week.

And then somehow I became the program director years ago and that's it.

So you've always knew that you may want to enter academics?

Maybe.

It's funny, I had this PT route and then I was dead.

Said I wasn't going to do that.

And so then I started applying to PA school.

And I think everybody that goes through the application process of PA school has this moment of, oh my gosh, what if I don't get in?

Yeah.

And so I started looking at becoming a high school teacher as a backup if I didn't get into school.

So it's funny that academia was in my to do list, so to speak, of what if I don't become a pa?

And then I was sitting in lectures as a student and thinking like, how can I maybe help teach back this to my classmates?

And I really enjoyed just like the process of learning.

And I think I'm just a nerd and I'm okay with saying that I found my people when I was.

Aren't we all?

Yeah, I'm totally a proud PA nerd and PA academic at time the same point in my career.

That's amazing.

Yeah, we Always say that at work.

Sometimes I'll have a case or a patient where I go grab the physician, not because I need her, but just because I know she's gonna be so excited to see what I'm seeing.

If it's a rare rash or a spot, I'm just like, oh, she's gonna love this.

This is gonna make her day to see this.

And we can nerd out together.

I don't think anyone does else does that about skin.

I work in dermatology, so we get to see all kinds of stuff.

Yeah.

See why you know that about some rashes.

Yeah, certainly.

I need some more rash nerds in my life to help me on those sometimes very rare rashes.

But that's why we need a variety of subspecialties and PAs.

The APA slogan, PAs do that.

Right.

It's just we're everywhere we do it.

And my good friend, neighbor Gary was a derm pa. That was my first exposure.

I thought, that's perfect.

Thank you.

Yeah, it's fun.

It's definitely fast paced.

I don't know that I get to spend as much time with my patients as well you would in family medicine.

Do you still practice as a pa, Even as a program director?

Yeah.

So I.

How does that work?

Often joke.

I don't know what I want to do when I grow up, which really I want to do everything.

I became a PA because I love seeing patients, but became a PA educator because I love training PAs.

So at my institution and many PA programs, faculty have a clinical release day where they work one day a week in a clinic.

Toro has a partnership with a local county clinic, and so I spend every Monday at the clinic.

And so I don't have a panel, so I do same day stuff and I cover down.

For example, I have a class of 22 grad that shares an office with me, so she doesn't work on Mondays, but I do.

So not only do I leave her some love notes as her former faculty advisor, but I get to help cover down for her patients.

So I think it's one of the most rewarding things I get to do, honestly, as program director, I get to see the students on clinical year sometimes.

If they're rotating at that clinic, even.

If it's just a few times during the rotation there.

But then I also am working with some of my recent grads and I get to just ask them questions and they get all excited when I ask a question and of course they come and ask me questions and it feels like old times.

So it's really, it's really great to still be in medicine and practice.

I feel like I'm early enough in my career as a now I guess I'm not a new grad at all years, but I just, I love medicine.

I pick up ER shifts still occasionally.

It sounds like I'm a workaholic, but it's just again, like, I want to be relevant for my students.

Like, I like to be in the classroom and say, hey, you'll never guess what I saw last week.

Oh, my gosh.

And this is how we handled it, right?

Yeah.

And I feel like that gives that instant straight cred that like, I'm still a practice practicing PA and I'm doing the craft that they're trying to train for.

And yeah, I do a little bit of everything.

And I, I love what I do.

I love being an educator.

I love helping shape the next generation.

But I also just love still seeing patients and knowing that I can make a difference.

That's fantastic.

And I think one of the cool things about being a PA and the process of becoming a PA is that transition from PA student to colleague that happen.

I remember the first time that one of my faculty, I went to Augusta University in Georgia.

One of my faculty referred a patient to me, and that was a big deal.

I was, oh my gosh, like the pressure.

My educator, my teacher trusts me enough to see their patient, and that just felt so good.

And to send that referral letter back and say thank you.

And that was just a very exciting day.

It was just like full circle.

I went through this program.

It was tough.

But you feel confident in me at this point and in the program and what you've taught me and in the student that you saw in your program enough to take care of your patient.

Love that.

Fun.

Yeah.

Educate, period.

Right.

Is that like, in such a short amount of time you're going to go from student pre PA to PA student to then PA colleague with all those individuals that invested their time getting you into the PA world and becoming a pa?

I totally have been on both sides of that coin.

And it's pretty awesome.

It is pretty cool.

Can you tell us a little bit about your program about Touro University in California and what do the students love?

I feel like when students look at program websites, a lot of stuff starts to run together and sometimes they don't know how to decipher what makes a program unique, especially if they aren't, like, from the area or anything.

But what do you feel like is just great about your program?

Yeah.

Since you asked.

I'll tell you the things.

We're the only program that does.

So first off, we're the only joint PA&PH program where every student starts and finishes and has to get both a PA and a public health degree.

So there are quite a few dual programs, or they may say they're joint, but they're not.

100% Of students that matriculate graduate with that.

So it makes us a little different.

I would say, even in the PA coursework, we're using that framework of public health to really guide our patient care and to really give us a perspective of how do we manage the social determinants of health.

And I think it gives our students a little unique toolbox to provide care to people that may not normally have access to care in one way or the other.

So we're the only PA program that I know of in the country that all of our students become certified lifestyle coaches through the Diabetes Prevention program.

Cool.

So Diabetes Prevention program is an evidence based program.

We've got Centers for Disease Control.

That's actually a lay led program.

You don't have to be a PA to become this lifestyle coach, but it gives people the kind of groundwork for how to give patient education.

In my experience, in kind of the setting of prediabetes and diabetes, and because you see it in derm, there are diabetes manifestations in every subspecialty, we need to be well prepared to take care of patients with diabetes and prediabetes and people at risk for diabetes.

And by the way, diabetes is like my nerd.

So we committed to doing that a few years ago.

We have had students that lead the diabetes prevention program in the community with people at risk for developing diabetes.

And it is an amazing program.

And evidence has shown over 20 years that it really does reduce the risk of developing diabetes later on by about 65%.

It's better than taking medications or anything like that.

Trying to get lifestyle in the curriculum so hard.

I'm sure in your research you've seen that lifestyle medicine, exercise, nutrition, it's so important for our patients.

But like, when do we have time to do that?

Yeah, it's a 12 hour training, so it doesn't sound like a lot, but some courses only meet for 12 hours.

Sometimes that's almost one credit hour.

We do that.

We really set the tone.

The first few weeks of our program, we in our mission statement, one of the first tenants is that we both use a public health and social justice lens.

So we offer a safe zone training so that all students are Able to use pronouns and address people in an appropriate way that would ensure that anybody from the LGBTQIA expansive community felt welcomed.

It's really important that we just really, as a program, we're invested in making sure that all students, but also our future patients, can receive the care and compassion that are needed.

And it starts with the little things.

And language just really matters.

So that's something unique.

Although I'm sure many programs are doing that sort of training this day and age as well.

So those are three special things.

We have a ton of electives like Street Medicine, our medical school, so students can opt to go out in the community and work with the unhoused.

Because we have a public health program as our kind of sister program, students get to to choose a discipline in.

Public health as well.

And one of the only things that we are as well is we have a criminal justice track that explores the public health of criminal justice.

And so about a third of our students choose that track, another third more like traditional community health, and a third global health.

And so when they do their public.

Health field study, they focus in on one of those tracks.

They might go abroad if they are global.

They might stay in the community, or they might explore what it's like to work with people in the prison system or after incarceration, for example.

So I think that we are definitely a niche program.

Not everybody wants a public health degree.

Yeah.

And that's okay.

But for those of you that do want a public health degree and you see yourself doing more than just clinical work, potentially, we might be the program for you.

Yeah.

I think for somebody who wants a public health degree, not just for the degree, but to actually use it and incorporate it, which is what I hear from students a lot is they're like, I have this genuine interest in public health, and I want to know how to put that into my career as a pa so it is different than just getting a degree, because it sounds like you're actually teaching them how to incorporate that into their practice.

Our mission, and live our public health values.

Yeah, that was.

There are two things you said that I think stand out based on what I hear from students with the lifestyle coaching and diabetes education, a lot of students are looking for a program that does teach about the whole patient and teaches more.

We can throw out the word holistically and.

Or even we're hearing the term functional medicine.

Getting into more of that, seeing the patient as a whole person.

And I think a lot of programs still are struggling with that and not sure how to fit that in or don't see the benefit of it quite as much.

We all learn.

Talk to your patient about lifestyle, but you don't necessarily learn how to do that or what that looks like.

And then I think emphasizing that your mission is truly your mission, it's not just a statement on your website that doesn't mean anything that the students are going to show up and be like, oh no, this program is not what they said they were.

Because that's something I hear from students.

I looked at their mission and then I got there and it was just very different.

And I'm not seeing these things that they say they stand for.

I think hearing you talk about it, that wouldn't be the case at your program.

Definitely.

I know students I've mentored in the past have said some similar things.

And I think that's something important when.

You're interviewing the program.

Right.

Because while we are interviewing you, you as the applicant, you are also having to make the decision if you want to come to that program.

And that is something to really keep in mind.

What is their mission?

Do I align with this mission?

Can I see myself in this program and fulfilling this mission when I graduate?

And that's what we're really looking for at Touro is we want people that either fulfill our mission in some way, whether that's coming from an under resourced community or having demonstrated work with an under resourced community or a commitment to primary care.

And a lot of programs say the primary care word.

And then we have students come and they say they want to go in primary care, but they don't really want to go into primary care.

They just know they're supposed to say that.

We can definitely figure that out.

Like, I would way rather an applicant be honest and say, you know what, I want to go into dermatology, but this is how I'm going to use dermatology to meet your mission.

And that's way more genuine.

I think that's advice I can give not just for my program, just in general.

Like students, I think they, you know, have been told somewhere down the line, like, don't be yourself and just be.

What you think they want you to be.

Guess what?

AI can do that.

You know, the tap can make you a perfect applicant.

Yeah.

And that's not the reality.

Like we want human beings that are going to do great things.

Yeah.

No, I love that.

And, and that's so true.

I love the word genuine because that's what I tell people is I can help you learn to be confident and I can Reassure you that you're doing a lot of the right things.

But I can't teach you to be genuine.

You have to do that yourself.

And yeah, and I think thinking beyond, sometimes people get stuck at the I just got to get into PA school.

I get into PA school and they're not looking at the bigger picture.

What is your personal mission?

What do you want to do with this?

Why?

Like why do you want to be a pa?

What's that going to do?

And that's something I actually struggled with in dermatology a little bit at the beginning.

Was feeling like, am I helping people enough?

Am I doing enough being in derm, I'm not doing primary care.

Should I be doing something different?

That's funny because I had a conversation with a physician today who works at a clinic we have.

It's like a sliding scale income based clinic and they're fantastic.

They just have everything for their patients.

But we're talking about doing like a derm clinic there because it's so hard for their patients to get to us.

They can't.

And so we're like, hey, if we can come to you, let's do that.

So there's ways to be creative and incorporate your personal mission in a specialty without, like you said, just pretending you want to do something too.

Yeah.

And I think the reality is there's many locations that need us too.

Right?

Yeah.

You're in a semi rural area.

There might not be a dermatology office for four or five hours.

And I certainly wouldn't say that going.

Into dermatology can certainly meet our mission.

In circumstances like what you're describing with the community clinic or if you're in a rural area and you're filling this void.

So yeah, there's probably a lot of.

People that have imposter syndrome when they leave programs that are very mission centric.

And I think that's really important that you mention that.

Think about how you are going to fulfill that mission and make it your own mission.

So even going into global health, you wouldn't think like derm, you can do anything.

I went to Kenya on a mission trip and it was a derm focused mission trip.

We went to a clinic and that's all we did was skin stuff.

But we definitely saw some primary care stuff too.

So yeah, lots of options there just in case we get cut off again, keep going.

But when you are looking at applications and going through that process with applicant, what are some red flags or what are some things that stand out.

That.

Students should be aware of?

I Think but for my program especially make sure you can describe that's what we're really looking for and having a story of why a PM sometimes it's not like this great aha moment you can try to articulate something that's different than the the rest of every other person and you've probably seen this in personal statements right.

Like they wanted to because their grandmother had cancer or because they had a PA experience some fashion great and possibly downplay them.

It's just that's very people so yeah.

How are you going to be different cause of that experience I think is what you have to make sure you're articulating in your essays.

The experience with your grandmother really influenced you.

What about it?

Like superficial.

They were a good PA.

I wanted to do this.

I have The Grand Force 500.

Yeah.

When I think if you get and it's like almost two different on my website which I can give you a link to.

Sure.

I do have this like checklist of like how to reevaluate your application again.

Yeah And I I tell people on interview day if you didn't get in and you interviewed with us it's often either like nerves got the best of you and testing anxiety or interview anxiety is a real thing especially first interview mini okay.

It's a lot of fun really nerve wracking especially like the first one or two that people go on having a format can be really tough for if they're used to different processes.

Make sure you practice for that.

I think if you don't get even after an interview it's probably the interview itself that you need to work on.

Yeah.

I've had like some students really like take all these classes and do all these.

You already had the great.

You already had the experience.

You already articulated on paper.

You know why you were a good student.

You just didn't articulate it.

Faculty or the nerves got the best of you rely on some peers trusted people that can give you some feedback when you're asking hard questions and find yourself can't ramble on for an ever like going over laying back.

Yeah.

No I can't.

That's what's funny in an MMI like most people think they talk forever.

I'm like no you only talk for two minutes but every once in a while I'll get that one person who just goes and goes.

That's great advice.

I think I agree.

So if you don't get an interview something's wrong with your application.

If you get an interview.

Your application was where it needed to be like that was you're impressive on paper but something just didn't connect at that next stage.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So thinking about applicants, if someone at this point in time, so we're right now in January hasn't heard back from a program, they haven't gotten an interview, they are looking at reapplying.

I'll definitely link them to your website to check that out.

Is there one thing that they can do?

I think my go to is definitely make sure that you're qualified for the program.

Go back, make sure you have the right classes, that you met the GPA requirements, did all this stuff for your application to even get looked at.

Do y' all look at everyone's application or is there a process to everybody.

Look at.

Okay now we're most programs rolling the earlier in the cycle you get your stuff in the better.

But people do get in.

Like your friend who sent the application they put in and there are those Cinderella stories.

Certainly for preparation sake, especially if you're doing it a second time.

Don't wait like I wouldn't, I would be prepared.

Explain how you improve that like what and really articulate like this is what I've done to show I really don't want to be a P.A.

I, I, I think so much in medicine is self reflect too as a really important skill that takes a lot of time to develop.

But if you can show you can self reflect before you even come to school, I think we're keen as somebody that I did because that's going to be somebody that really empathy probably for their patient and also reflect when they get something wrong in a test.

I don't want and argue.

I want and reflect and say oh, okay.

The answer was hypoglycemia because night sweats and jitteriness and having eaten all day versus I don't think it's hypoglycemia.

There's no way we have things that and that's what we're trying to avoid.

It's hard to engage in that I can't think of when I'm preferring that is needed.

But definitely if I have an exam question wrong.

Oh no.

Anyway, I'm taking my, my panry LA right now and that is I'm like oh no, I'm a bad student because there's definitely questions where I'm like no, I got that they had it wrong and yeah working on that.

But I think I hope I answered your question.

No, you, you definitely did.

I think like you said, look at your application.

It's not and it's.

I think it's helpful to hear that.

It's not necessarily yeah, you gotta go take a bunch of classes.

You gotta go do a bunch of stuff like really do that self reflection.

I think it's sometimes it's EAS the easy way to say oh I'm just gonna get more experience when it is classes you need to take or I'm going to take more classes when it is different experience you need to take or you're comfortable in your job and you don't want to switch to something else.

I just don't think anyone has ever gotten into PA school without making some type of sacrifice and figuring out what you're going to have to do to get there.

The Cinderella stories are few and far between, especially these days.

More people know about the profession and they know how great it is and I think the profession is growing.

Do you have any thoughts on just the future of PA education?

I know there's rumblings of should PAs get a doctorate degree like PTS or should we have more like bridge to med school programs?

Do you have any thoughts on those?

I have a lot of thoughts.

I'm in cost possible.

I fear that the addition of the doctoral degree is going to raise the cost of programs much like the transition from bachelor to master degree programs.

I'm old enough believe it or not that when I was applying to school there were still bachelor's were bachelor's or certificate only programs.

Why do you worry about that?

Economic cost.

A school is expected that for me I'm in California State public schools are pricey and then the cost of living itself is what really drives us that live in high living areas.

So I think I have a doctorate in public disclosure.

Yes.

So I think any.

The what for is important.

Is it going to provide better clinical outcomes?

Probably not.

Most programs are already about at doctorate level in credit hours anyway.

Is it going to make sure they have a seat at the table Combined that argument true years and so I think leaders may want to invest further in their education theaters.

Certainly for somebody that's planning on seeing for their 40 year career.

I don't know if we're there at this very moment to feel pressure to yeah I know there are grant programs become a physician.

I have I think my co produce the most future physician relative what.

Out of my cohort like percentage of them actually the education and then three of them went on to become physicians.

How many students are in your program?

We have 48 now.

That's a good size.

Okay,.

So you have three out of 38, that's a pretty good percentage.

And I think they had a variety of reasons and that sort of thing.

But when it's all said, I think if that's what somebody wants to do, I would.

I.

So something wasn't.

I wish I had figured that out earlier.

Yeah.

PA route.

And the reason for me as a educator is I love being a pa, love what we do and I love the versatility of my career.

I. I've worked in the er.

I worked in primary care.

I was in the military.

So I've done a variety of years and I know change my mind tomorrow.

As a physician so hard and unless.

You go to residency.

My husband's a physician and he's thrown around, oh, maybe I'll do an ICU fellowship.

And I'm like, maybe not.

That's three more years.

You're going to go from a really great schedule to a really terrible schedule.

Let's just.

We're good.

Yeah.

He should go to PA school for you.

Is that.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I. I agree.

I don't think all programs need to be a doctorate.

I think like you said it would accessibility financially.

Like it would change the profession a lot and requirements would probably change.

Like it would just.

It would change a lot.

I'm good with us the way we are currently.

I think we're doing a good job and.

And I do like that there are now the doctorate programs.

I've heard great things about a lot of them.

Get on.

Yeah.

Serve on our state.

Gotten.

The purple.

Pretty robust.

Dollars and more.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's very important as well.

So we'll see where.

Where our.

Sorry, wait.

What?

Don't you prefer to.

Oh, yeah, no, that's.

That's one thing I recommend though.

Like when people are trying to meet, make connections to PAs or find PAs to show I'm like, get involved with your state society.

Just see if they need help.

They do.

Ask them.

They're going to probably take you up on it.

Even if you're helping them, like draft an email or whatever, just get involved and Learn about the PAs in your state and what they're working on.

There's lots of them do conferences and that's a huge undertaking.

Like just get involved.

There's lots of options out there and it's been cool to see where the profession has come in the past 10 years.

I was in PA school 10 years ago and I'm excited to see where it goes and how it keeps me growing and changing.

But I have learned so much about your program.

And I'm so excited to share.

I think students will be very excited to hear this as well and get the inside scoop.

Yes.

Journey, wherever.

Yes.

Do y' all have info sessions or anything?

Or can they go to the website or contact you there if they have questions?

Okay, perfect.

So I can.

Yes.

Okay, Awesome.

Okay, I'll put all that in the description of the episode so you guys can find more information.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, thank you.