I have been eagerly awaiting the release of this episode!  Can I be so bold as to brag that Jessica Fearnley, of the “Seven Figure Consultant,” and I really do think alike. 😊  Jessica joined me and we got into the nitty gritty about how successful solopreneurs need to evolve to move from six figure incomes to seven. We didn’t quite finish each other’s sentences, but there was a lot of agreement between us as we covered:

•  Keeping an eye on your Revenue Model as well as your Business Model
• How to build a team and create a Boring Department, so you can focus on your passion
• The importance of scaling for salability even if you don’t want to sell
• As a bonus feature, Jessica shared how she became a LinkedIn Top Voice for Entrepreneurs

There were some priceless words of wisdom from two seasoned professionals who have personal and professional experience to share, so get your pencil sharp and notepad ready for this one. If you think you are ready to take your business to the next level, contact me to learn more.

Jessica Fearnley is a business coach who helps women build seven figure consulting firms. She specializes in the transition from six to seven figures in turnover, and is an advocate for earning more by working less. Jessica has bachelor's and masters degrees from Nottingham University, and a career background in project management, business planning and business development in both the public and private sector. In December 2019 she was named as one of the LinkedIn Top Voices for Entrepreneurship and Small Business, and is passionate about closing the gender pay gap for women in consulting.

Connect with Jessica:

https://www.jessicafearnley.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-fearnley-47173019/

https://www.facebook.com/JessicaFearnleyBusinessConsultant

The Six Elements of a Seven Figure Business pdf: https://www.jessicafearnley.com/six-elements-of-a-seven-figure-business-jessica-fearnley/

We would love it if you would consider supporting Jessica’s charity of choice: https://baby-basics.org.uk/

Connect with Erin and find the resources mentioned in this episode at hourlytoexit.com/podcast.

Erin's LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/

Think Beyond IP YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVztXnDYnZ83oIb-EGX9IGA/videos

Music credit: Yes She Can by Tiny Music

A Podcast Launch Bestie production

All right.

Well, welcome to the hourly to exit podcast.

I am so excited to have Jessica Fernley here with me today.

Thank you, Jessica, for joining me.

Thank you, Erin for the invite.

I am very excited about this episode.

First, I'm gonna let you introduce yourself to the audience.

Awesome.

Um, so hi everyone.

My name is Jessica Fearnley.

I am a business coach for consultant women.

So in particular, I help women who sell consulting to corporate firms.

Um, I help them transition their business from six figures with them

as the solo consultant who has booked themselves out- it's a wonderful feeling,

isn't it?

When you are popular, you're in demand, your clients really trust you.

But, typically with my clients, when we start working together, they have just

realized the crunch point of being.

Overbooked and overwhelmed

Yes.

I helped them transition to no longer being the solo consultant,

but the CEO of their consulting business.

My brand is seven figure consultant.

It's a super awesome way to serve.

I love my clients and I love what I do.

Yeah.

I mean, there are a million things that we could talk about today with

Jessica, cuz she knows soup to nuts about how to build a business from

that six figure to seven figure level.

A lot of our audience will have hit a revenue ceiling.

There's only so much we can bill when, depending on what our, our model is.

And so we are gonna talk about business models and revenue models today.

But first I wanted to talk about something.

I am in awe, which is so interesting to me.

You know, one of the things that a lot of my audience is still

trying to crack, myself included, is this nut called LinkedIn.

And you have absolutely cracked that nut, you know, including

being a LinkedIn top voice for entrepreneurship and small business.

I'd love to hear more about that journey for you, how you did it, the

benefits that you're seeing in your business from it, and any tips you can.

Oh, sure.

So, yeah, I, I have been so fortunate with my relationship with LinkedIn, and

just the way that they have given me a platform for the issues that I care about.

So initially, when I got the LinkedIn top voice, I was talking a lot about closing

the gender pay gap for consultant women.

Um, and that that's a drum I'm gonna beat for the whole of my life.

and I'm, I'm so passionate about women and kind of enabling women

and empowering them to create wealth and opportunities for themselves

and the people around them, because there is this amazing ripple effect.

When women start businesses and they employ other women.

And even through the work that they do quite often, it has a

transformative impact on their clients.

Like the world just becomes a better place.

so to be honest, I, wasn't looking for the top voice award when it found me and

I was probably more surprised than anyone.

But the thing that I think was really helpful for me, and you'll

probably go, oh, was showing up on LinkedIn, come rain or shine.

I was posting on LinkedIn.

I actually did a couple of stints where I did daily posting, I

think for around six months.

And I was.

Uh,

gasp that you get

I know , I know it's not everyone wants to hear, but the thing

is, it depends on who you are as a person, because, , for me, like if I wasn't a

coach and probably if you'd have asked me when I was 18, would you wanna be

able, would've said I wanna be a writer.

And like, I am a bit of a content machine because I love to write and words

just flow out of me when I'm writing.

Like once, once I make it sound like this epic thing, but I've, I've

written 20,000 words in a week before.

Because when you tap into like that, Thing you, and I think that's the

thing, like in your content, like find the thing that's like, you're never

gonna shut up about, because that really does make a huge difference.

But yeah, I'd, I'd done a stint earlier that year kind of posting every day on

LinkedIn for about six months and not just posting, but engaging and not just

being like, oh, thanks for sharing.

But like really engaging, like with my heart and kind of, everything that

I saw that I cared about just like really writing like a proper response

sometimes like 20, 30, 40 words.

And I remember thinking at the time, like being a bit of a loser here, just

like really writing up, but like the thing is when you engage like that, um,

it does, it does push your rankings up.

So actually, there is a LinkedIn tool that you are able to use and, um, it

tells you how you rank compared to other people in the same industry.

And at the point that I got the LinkedIn top voice, I was ranking in the top 1%

for management consultants and, I didn't really know that I was, I was just kind

of doing it out of curiosity, you know, with my posting and my engaging and

just kind of enjoying it, which is, I think, you know, what we should be doing.

But yeah, I think it it really is just a question of showing up and

caring about what you care about and.

I'm so fortunate to be in a business where like the things that I really care about

converge totally, with the work that I do.

And so, and I'm sure that will be true for a lot of people listening,

So that would be my advice.

Like there is no kind of magic formula, like, you know, in, in a sense, I don't

know how I did it because I wasn't trying, but I think it's a really

good example of whatever you're doing, just do it with your whole heart.

I've kind of followed that my entire life, cuz I'm that kind of person.

If I like something, I love it.

If I don't like something, I can't stand it, you know, just like show

up with your heart and like give it 110%, and just kind of be led to

the things that are meant for you.

I think that's why I would say.

oh, that's lovely.

I love that.

Uh, so, well, that's something to think about.

I, I, every day, including weekends, just outta curiosity.

No

okay.

LinkedIn doesn't happen at the weekend, surely.

No, I was very strict Monday to Friday, I think.

And like, to be honest, it didn't take up a lot of my time sometimes I would like

batch write them so I had stuff to say in advance, so it would be like 10 minutes

in the morning, just post it and get all the hashtags and all that kind of thing.

You don't need loads, maybe 4, 5, 6.

and then.

Post it, leave it all day and then come back and engage on

the comments in the evening and do some other engaging as well.

So it was probably like 10, 15 minutes in the morning at like 30

minutes in the evening, and then all that space in between to just let

the algorithm do the work for you.

That really is the smart way to do social media, I think.

right.

Very good.

I will say I do feel a little intimidated by the increase in the word count.

Since I guess it was a year ago.

I can't remember when it happened, where, you know, like suddenly you feel the

need to fill up every, you know, all the

You really don't need to, if you can say it, like I used

to find it slightly frustrating that there was only, was it 1500 characters.

It wasn't enough for me, but then I, you know, I'm, I'm like too wordy if anything.

Um, but yeah, I think never feel like you have to write this epic long thing.

I think people get frustrated when.

Like posts just become formulaic.

And everyone just does the same thing.

And I, you know, I get stuff in my newsfeed now where I'm just

like, oh, I've already seen like a hundred posts like this.

Like, Ugh.

Um, you know, it's not about going viral.

It's about showing up regularly and talking to your people.

nice.

Well, I like that.

All right.

You you've re-energized me cuz uh, I, I come and go.

I really do.

Sometimes I'm totally in and sometimes like, okay, let me do this.

So I like that.

So thank you so much.

So to our topic of business models and revenue models, so I'm just

gonna give a little background to our audience about a business model.

And revenue models.

So they are used interchangeably often, but they are different.

And so first I'm gonna talk about business model.

So that describes how your company generates value for your clients.

So you may do it through one-on-one services, you may

do it through group coaching.

You may do it through an online course.

So that's how you deliver value to your client.

Versus your revenue model is how you get paid for delivering that value.

So if we wanna talk about that one-on-one business model, there

are multiple ways to have revenue models under your business model.

So you may bill hourly, you may have a productized service, or

you may have value based pricing.

So all of these are variables that we can work with that affects generally

the revenue in your business, as well as the profit in your business and your

ability to scale and someday, sell your.

So, uh, this is the hourly to exit podcast.

So I am going to ask Jessica, you know, in that continuum from hourly to exit where

you're trying to build a business that can scale and hopefully sell some day, we're

looking to build assets in our business and exclusivity and predictability.

So where does the revenue model and the business model fit into that continu?

I think that's a really great thing to be asking and.

It's clear from the, the title of your podcast, Erin, but like, I, I

always advise clients to move away from hourly pricing where they can,

I think that's really important.

And like, I can illustrate this with a literal example, that happened to a

client of mine, um, a few months ago.

And what happened was.

She priced out the work that she was going to do with the client and

it was on an hourly rate and they agreed how long it was gonna take.

And so she did the work actually found that she'd like quoted for kind

of four days and it took one day.

So then she filled out her time sheet and the client said, oh,

it's only taken you one day.

In that case, you get a quarter of the money.

And she was like, There's not really anything I can do about this.

Ken is there and I was like, well, It was kind of a flawed construct

from the beginning, because that is literally the thing you get

penalized for being efficient.

And like, if you, with that kind of model, if you want to be paid more

than in theory, you drag your feet.

But for women in my audience, that isn't really something that

appeals because it's not about going slow to maximize your value.

It shouldn't be about that.

So I will always say priced by value.

Um, and more than that, I think priced by return.

So, if you understand, like the impact that your work can do.

And very often for my clients, there is, there is like a literal number.

Like they could probably make it into a percentage in terms of like money

that they, that the company wouldn't have earned, that they haven't earned,

um, waste that would've happened that they've managed to avoid.

But also some of these other things like, um, employee engagement, um, High staff

turnover being reduced by percentages.

It's really, really important to be able to understand the value of what

you do, because people don't just hire you because they like you and you don't

just do the work cuz you like them.

There's a business rationale for a lot of this stuff.

So I think you are an amazing advantage if you understand that going in, because

it just means that, you know, like what the bargaining chips are gonna be,

if I can put it like that.

Right.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I mean, as a, a lawyer, I mean, certainly we fall into the hourly billing trap.

I mean, it is the model in the legal industry, of course.

And, you know, and I have the ability to, to charge differently.

And I do, and I, I have some retainer base and some flat fee

based, but I have on occasion still.

And I promise myself to never do it again, do some hourly work.

And I had that very, you know, very similar experience last year,

actually, where, um, Have worked with this client like repeatedly.

And I kind of just know their business and know the industry and

they just know that I can just go in and get something done very quickly.

Whereas if they go to someone else who's not familiar with the

industry, then they have all this background and blah, blah, blah.

And so like, and I would blame them hourly.

So , they're very efficient.

I turn this thing around in an hour.

I'm like, oh my God.

Like what?

You know?

And it was in order for them to, you know, get an engagement that was worth, you

know, hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I'm I kind help them figure it out.

And I'm like, okay, that's, let's not do that again.

So yes, that

Yeah, well, exactly.

And, uh, that's, that's literally why I, I have a thing about hourly

rates is that like, it can work out great for the client, but it usually

doesn't work out great for you.

And so, and, and especially when you, when you work in the way that we do,

um, we're very small changes can make a huge impact to someone's bottom.

yeah.

Like, I dunno, I'm, I'm sure this is true for you

as well, Erin, but like clients who've worked with me have had like

a 1400% return on their investment.

And like, you can't even say that cuz people are just like,

what does that even mean?

Yeah, like get the calculator out.

exactly, but it's, it's just kind of, you know, people

are gonna have such a benefit.

So, and when you are in that kind of work, you need to make sure that actually you

are being adequately compensated for the benefit that you bring to that client.

So if you can make them an absolute ton more money, it's reasonable for like a

percentage of that to come back to you.

And that needs to be reflected in your pricing, or maybe you do like a

profit share or something like that.

So that it's, it's more kind of obvious, but I, I just think we need to, first

of all, Be really clear about actually, where does that value come from?

And that kind of links to a second thing that I'd love to say, which,

and again, this is gonna be a second unpopular thing for me to say, but

almost the, the, the quickest way to increase the revenue coming into your

business is not to go and get a ton more clients, but is to raise your prices.

And everyone always goes, oh,

not

Yes.

they will do it.

Yes.

I know.

But it is really linked to sort of understanding

your value and especially from your client's point of view so often,

and I think women do this a ton.

Like we don't charge enough.

And because of that, you then have to take on a lot of clients in

order to hit your revenue target.

But in this scenario that we've been talking about where actually you

are completely booked up and then it's like, well, like the number of

hours you have available times like the hourly rate that you charge that

becomes the maximum that you can make.

It's like this fixed ceiling in the business and you

can't do anything about it.

So the way that we can get away from that is starting to price by value, but also

to raise that price in the first place.

And I think the two kind of go hand in hand, because once you start to understand

the value that your services really do

have for your clients, you have to raise your prices.

You can't just charge a hundred dollars an hour for something

like that, it doesn't make sense.

Right.

Well, that brings us to another element of building that

exclusivity into our business, which is like, how do we stand out?

How do we not be viewed as commodity so that we aren't

subject to commodity pricing?

Mm.

Yeah, absolutely.

Because that is a really, really important part of it.

Because if your clients don't see the value in what they do, then, like,

if things get a bit complicated, you'll be the first one to go.

But again, I think it's really, really important that you, you see.

What you do in the big picture of what your client is trying to achieve.

So if you help them with their core objectives, they're never

gonna get rid of you because they need you in order to survive.

And I think for my clients, they work with corporate firms and it's really important

to remember that actually there's a massive hierarchy in corporates and like

the people that they are talking to,

they will have their own set of objectives, they will have their

own set of pressures, they are accountable to other people.

Even at sea level, they have massive accountability cuz they

need to be like proving value to the corporation all the time.

So if you can understand that and really speak their language, it's not

about them kind of making you feel good by hiring you or giving you an

opportunity to play around with some stuff, cuz you really feel like doing it.

If you can show and like understand for yourself, what you do is life or death for

this organization, that is always going to be the way to, like, I don't wanna

say embed because I'm not really about like the kind of coaching or consulting

where you make yourself indispensable because you wanna stay forever.

And for a lot of my clients, sometimes there is like a long term role of

three to five years that they can play in an organization very productively.

But I don't think that we necessarily have to do that by design.

I think that really, when you understand, like the bigger things that play and

you understand the little sections of their things that you can be involved

in, there's a very clear start and end point in those kinds of situations.

Well, tell me how do your clients typically come to you?

What are they feeling?

What's the pain that they're feeling that they go, okay.

I need to go and talk to Jessica.

Usually it's just a feeling of burnout and just, or, or

like burnout is coming and a lot of them have been through burnout already.

So one of the, one of the key things, one of the key stories that I tell about

myself and my life is that, um, when I was 27, I had like huge burnout, probably

a breakdown, um, in my corporate career.

And it was kind of like, Just, it happened incrementally, but I was

living this amazing life in London.

I was working in this organization where our office was sort of

20 floors above the river thas.

We were right on the bank of the tha.

And we used to joke quite a lot and say, you know, when you get sick of this

view, then it's time for you to leave because you really, you could see like

the whole of London, it was amazing.

Um, but like, it, it just, wasn't a lifestyle that was working for me

and commuting didn't work for me.

And now I have my own business.

I, I work exclusively from home.

I very rarely leave my, my home.

Um, and actually that's a way of working, which, you know, 12 years

on, it's still what I would choose rather than going into an office.

So kind of doing nine till five in an organization like that, it just, it really

didn't like fit with who I am as a person.

But like one of the things I think that draws my clients to me is that

like, they realize that they may have had a similar situation and I

I've also sort of been through that.

So I understand it.

And you know, they don't have to feel like it's this big thing to be ashamed of.

It's more just, but I think once you have had, once you've been through burnout,

you kind of, you start to see the burnout cycle in your life, and it's quite scary.

Um, when you get into a situation where you're like, I feel the

burnout could happen again.

And it's a really funny thing because I have been.

In situations where I've wondered like, oh gosh, am I gonna burn out again?

And like, it re it is never happened again, the way it did that, like time

when I was 27, but the fear of it, like the first, I think in the first few years

when you're kind of recovering and you're starting to do life a bit differently.

that can be a huge drive for people to reach out to me because they're just

like, I've been through this already.

It was really horrible.

It was really scary.

I don't wanna go through this again.

but I think in terms of what's going on in the business very often, they

are that solo consultant and like, we like to be needed don't we?

And so we can go to town and, you know, like booking ourselves absolutely solid.

So like it's a common theme, um, with my clients that they're just like, I

thought all my problems would go away when I became a six figure business.

And now I'm a six figure business, but I hate my life and I feel like I'm drowning.

And, and that's, that's a really important place to get to because

we can just feel like we have to say yes to all the opportunities.

There's so much mindset that goes on, um, in getting our first

kind of six figures in revenue.

Um, and I have absolutely kind of fallen down all of those holes as well.

I think in my journey over the last eight.

But I think it's that real feeling of like, it can't go on like

this and I'm building something that I don't wanna be a part of.

And that just, that was never part, you know, if you're gonna spend your,

your time and really it's, you know, it's years of our lives, it matters.

You've got to enjoy what you're building.

And maybe there's like a, there was a big vision for what it

was gonna be in the first place.

But the reality of it is like, It's just not as fun as they thought

it was gonna be, because it just requires them to be present.

And as soon as they step away, the business stops making money

because they are the only source of that revenue being generated.

Mm, is it often the problem that they don't have any scale

or any leverage in their business?

Is that usually kind of why they are where they are?

Yeah.

And I think there can like, so something that people nearly always say is, oh,

I hired someone once and it was awful.

I never wanna do it again.

And like, if, you know, if they live and die by that, then like there's

not a lot I can do to help them.

There are other ways that you can leverage and scale your business, obviously.

Um, like, you know, by looking at doing group programs,

thinking about doing a course.

You know, there's all kinds of creative things that you can do.

Creating products, licensing.

But I, one of the key things that I work on with my clients is starting

to build a team for them to help, not just with the operational support in

the business, but with the delivery.

and what that looks like for each person that I work with is completely different

because I don't like to kind of say, this is how everyone has to do it.

So you need to do it too.

Like, it's really important to me to understand like how people are feeling,

um, what shape they want things to.

How involved they want to be like some, some clients are

like, oh, I hate delivery.

I'm so over delivery.

I just wanna step out of it completely.

But with quite a few of them, like they do want to retain that ability to be

part of something and sort of keep their hand in, keep their skills current,

but it's kind of more of a portfolio.

Like they wanna be in on the fun, like exciting projects.

And I, I sometimes call it like having a boring department who

get to do all the other stuff.

Because really, it's not boring for some people like that is like their major

strength, but also for some people they're a much more junior point in their career.

So it's, it's wonderful experience and it's work.

They're actually quite happy to do.

But I think a key thing for my clients is they're quite often, they've

fallen out of love with what they do, and they've got a bit bored and

it's starting to feel a bit stale.

And I think that's always a sign that we're ready for.

The next challenge.

We're ready to sort of kick it up a notch.

Right.

So I imagine, I mean, you did mention those who you probably can't work with,

who are just kind of no employees, no way, but even those who are willing to have a

team, they understand the value of that.

They're willing to dive in.

I imagine there's still a lot of fear surrounding that as well.

I mean, cuz for some people it's not that they.

Are against hiring, but it just seems like the, the legal issues and the

HR issues and the, you know, like how you know, and that, it just

seems a little bit overwhelming.

So what kind of resistance do you get when you talk about creating

teams and how you overcome them?

Oh, just everything imaginable from like,

I don't really wanna have a team.

Um, I like doing the work myself.

Like it's hard for me to trust someone.

And I think often because my clients tend to be high achieving women, we

have gone through school and university and we have ticked all the boxes.

We've got the grades, you know, we've been to the universities

we were supposed to go to.

We've done everything kind of on our own merit in our own credentials.

And same in corporate careers, you can, you know, have all the kind

of contacts in the right places and like rise the corporate ladder and

feel very self-sufficient in that.

Whereas as soon as you start to bring other people into a business, then

it's like, what if they mess it up?

What if they can't do it the way that I do it?

And it, it can be a real challenge.

I think one of the big challenges is particularly that clients get

very attached to the business owner.

Especially if you've branded around your name and you've always been, they

just love the fact they can phone you up

and there's a real personal relationship there.

There can be resistance like from the client and be like, you're changing stuff.

We don't like this.

And, you know, Sometimes you can transition a client

to a new way of working.

Sometimes actually they love old you, but like you have transitioned into

a new version of yourself and new version of you is not a fit for them.

So that can be really painful because it's a process of firing all your clients

and it feels like this is the wrong thing to be doing that actually, that's the

thing that actually takes the business forward because there's no point in the

business being dependent on a version of you that stopped existing last year.

It has to grow with you as a person.

So it it's an intense process sometimes.

Um, and it can be really exciting.

There are highs, there are lows.

But I think ultimately if you know in your bones, that it's the right thing to be

doing, then it's the right thing to, to make those kinds of changes because the,

the impact that it has on revenue is huge.

Wow.

Yeah.

I mean, I personally have been going through this, you know, as well.

And, uh, you know, I do have some challenges because I'm a lawyer and so I

can't, uh, only deliver it can be done by lawyers depending on what I'm doing, but

building a team for the other pieces that don't require, uh, them to be a lawyer

and letting go is a huge, huge problem.

And, uh, and definitely like, cuz for me, you know, when you feel like you have a

certain voice and like even like, um, you know, writing emails and things like, oh,

like what this sound like, it's me and that, um, kind of permeates the business.

So is there a trick to it or is it just a matter of trusting

or how, how do you get comfort?

I think that, um, it's the process of allowing people to do

things differently to how you would maybe do them, if it achieves the same result.

And I've, I've had experience of both scenarios where you think, oh, I wish

you hadn't phrased that like that.

But then sometimes it's like, That's better than I would've said it.

Then

right, right,

so, you know, we have to be open to the fact that sometimes like,

like believe it or not, some people will be better than we are at certain things.

And I think for our egos, that can be quite a hard thing

to, to get our heads around.

Um, but I do think that it's just important to be able to

let people step into that and.

Not micromanage, um, but just allow them to take on the role

in their own way sometimes.

But the way that I like to do it, when I bring on team members is to start

them off with something really small.

And to really test out whether this is a right fit on something that's

small, rather than like, kind of give them the whole business and then be

like, oh my gosh, I gotta take it back.

This is not going well.

Like give them something really small, like test out, let them test you out.

Like see if it works.

And, and sort of take that approach and then, you know, add on the next

thing and then add on the next thing.

Um, and it just, it means that they can do a lot less damage if they're not the

right fit, but it just means that also you can begin the process of trusting them,

um, because it's, it's so fulfilling when.

You give someone a bit of responsibility and they just knock it outta the park

and you know, it can be quite risky actually to your business to give

someone access to the whole thing.

And then like it can cause, and I've had clients who've been in this situation.

Of like, it can just take upwards of a year to find all the things that

went wrong and fix them as well.

So it needs to be that balance.

Like there needs to be proper supervision and like, we have

to step up in this situation.

You have to be the CEO.

It's not enough to just put someone in, give them a ton of expectation,

communicate very little, and then be like, well, they haven't really done a good job.

You have to change into a different version of yourself in order to make

that something that is gonna work.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely.

in this world of remote work, which I imagine probably

everyone is doing these days.

I mean, you know, certainly post pandemic.

What changes have you seen about how people are building their teams

and, and structuring their business?

and like, how do you think that will affect the way people do it in the future?

Like what trends are we seeing regarding how we build teams

and, uh, and working remodeling

Well, one of the things that I love about remote working.

So I'm obviously a remote worker with my clients and everyone on my team is remote.

Um, we were just literally saying in my team meeting today, My one of my

team members, who's also in the UK.

We we've worked together for several years and we've never met each

other or come across each other.

Um, so you know, um, but I think one of the things about remote working

is that it gives the opportunity for you to find someone who is the

absolute right fit for your business.

So even if they're not like.

Local to you, you get the, the person who's the absolute expert

because you you've got a much bigger pool to recruit from.

So I find that like a real kind of benefit, I guess, on the flip

side, you do have to have the property provision in place.

Um, so you know, things like if you set a meeting and they don't show

up, that's, that's kind of a big deal because if they don't show up to that,

then that's your communication points.

So.

In order for remote working to work, there has to be a lot of trust and they

have to show that they're worthy of that trust, you know, by, by keeping

to the arrangement by the letter.

I think when, when people have used remote working as like, you know, an opportunity

to just be a bit flaky or commit to something and then not follow through,

I personally find that very frustrating.

If you're gonna be like that, then it just, the whole system falls down.

But I have had clients who are like, I want someone who is remote,

but who's near enough that we can meet up face to face if we want to.

I'm not I'm raising my hand.

Yeah.

And some people are really big on face to face I'm, I'm not at all.

I'm kind of the opposite.

I'm like, can we not do face to face?

That just makes me feel a lot better, but like, you have to know yourself

and what is gonna work for you.

You know, I, I have, um, I have clients who are quite extroverted and lockdown

has been really hard on them because they just like to be around people.

Like my husband is a big extrovert and he has really struggled.

Whereas in parts of lockdown, I was like, I feel like I'm living my best life.

Everyone's on zoom now, too.

all right.

And there's no FOMO, no fear of missing out cuz nothing's happening so

exactly.

I get it.

Exactly.

So we started talking about business models and revenue models.

So.

If building teams is one of the primary ways of like popping through that six

figure ceiling to the seven figure, does that apply across all types of

business models and revenue models?

Or is there one that's better than the other?

I think whatever you do, you've always gotta keep it

really tightly focused on the numbers because you can build a team and you can

increase the revenue of your business and actually make the same or less profit.

And that's a, that's a really scary thing because ultimately what you're

doing is you are working a ton harder.

Your business is working harder, but to you materially, it makes no difference.

Like, you know, then if you were just still there, solo consultant

doing it all by yourself.

So I think that was, that is the thing that I would always say like

scale, like with the numbers in the very center of what you're

doing, because it's really easy.

Like when you add in, and actually I have seen people do this, like they're,

they're using adding team members to.

Increase the number of hours that they have available.

But if they're still working to kind of an hourly rate model, you're just

kicking the problem down the track.

You're not actually dealing with it.

We need to see this leveraging.

We need to be like making more money from less time, rather than making

more money from the same time.

So if you have a flawed revenue model,

yes.

adding, teams' gonna fix that.

Exactly.

And I, I often say to people, scaling chaos leads to more chaos.

Um, and so like, and I I've seen lots of women be really tempted to be like, oh

gosh, selling one to one is really hard.

I feel like it would be easier to sell a group because it's lower ticket.

I'm gonna scale and do a group.

And it's like, you're not scaling.

You are trying to bail out the fact that you're not selling

at the level that you need to.

And I think it's so much more important unless there's like a

really strong pull to be like, I just don't think I like one to one.

I think I'd be more fulfilled if I was doing a group programmer, to be honest, we

can, we can justify all kinds of things.

Can't we , but like, Sometimes, I think we need to lean in

to the stuff that feels hard.

And if, if you're, if you're wanting to scale, because you're not seeing

the numbers that you want to in your business, I don't think that scaling is

the thing that you should be focusing on.

Like if, if it's a lack of sales, then scaling.

Won't really help with that because scaling only really works

when you've got a big audience.

So I always say to people, the time to be thinking about scaling is really

when you've got more work than you can cope with when you've got more

inquiries than you can cope with.

Cuz otherwise you're just gonna end up with like a bunch of empty programs and

that is a really stressful place to be.

Yes.

Yes.

Especially cuz it, I mean that's an investment to create those programs.

So if there's not the demand for it, I mean, where's the market

demand for this like anything.

exactly it needs, it needs to be demand led.

And that can feel like a really hard thing if you're struggling in business.

And you're like, I think quite often, you know, we can know that we're awesome at

what we do, but we just haven't found like that connection with our audience yet.

And I, that really is isn't.

It's not the time to scale that it's the time to lean into, to the sales issue that

we're having and really find ways, but you can even apply leveraging to that and

kind of get in front of other people's audience and get people to make referrals

to you do cross promotion, like leveraging doesn't always have to be about time.

There's, there's actually a lot of ways that you can leverage a lot of things.

You know, you can even like talk to people and say, can you, can you introduce me?

To someone and then like, you know, it, it can be a case of leveraging your

network of contacts because everyone that you know, has got their own network.

And so that's another way that you can apply leveraging.

Um, I, it, it's a really exciting concept because when you really

understand it, you start to see so many different ways that you can apply it.

Right.

Ah, that is so perfect.

So as you know, um, hourly to exit is a bit of a meta.

Podcast, because we're talking about building a business

that can be sold someday.

And I am, you know, the female founder of an expertise based business that I

am building to hope to sell someday.

So my question for you as the female founder of an expertise

based business, are you selling your business to hopefully sell some day.

So before I set up my company, I was head of

operations in a consultancy firm that we built up for four years to

seven figures, and then it was sold.

And one of the things that I picked up along the way is that actually,

if you are gonna build a business, whether you're gonna sell it at the

end, like preparing it as if it was gonna be sold is just a really good

way to build a strong business.

So my, my goal is not really to sell my business because it's really based around

me and the fact that I wanted something to do and a way to contribute to the world.

And really, you know, I've been, I've been going for eight years now and I haven't

run out of ideas even a little bit.

I haven't got bored of it.

Um, so I think I'm in this business for the long haul for sure.

But like, I, I really understand those.

Kind of criteria of what makes a strong business.

And so absolutely I'm doing everything that I can to embed those in my

business, regardless of whether I get to a point where I decide to sell.

Yeah.

Well, I like to look at it as, I mean, there someday there'll be something else

that might just catch it, be something else, you know, who knows five years

from now, what will be happening in the world that maybe is more urgent.

Yeah, exactly.

And every now and then I, I get like a bit of an inspired idea and I'm like, oh,

I think that might be the thing that I do in five years time or 10 years time.

Um, but you know, like I'm a big fan of making your business fit the size that

you have, like in your schedule and sort of the amount of space available

and making your business really work.

Even if it's with a teeny tiny amount of time, finding ways to actually

get it, to achieve the revenue that you want to on that, on that basis.

I, I can confirm listeners that Jessica is super good at boundaries.

Like she's like the master of boundaries.

I'm like, when I grow up, I wanna have boundaries like Jessica.

So

is, I'm the worst.

That is one of my challenges for sure.

So I have a couple of final questions for you.

One as we share that, you know, having more wealth in the hands

of women is good for society.

And so I am wondering if there is an organization or person who is, uh,

furthering that mission to help create a more equitable society for everyone

that you like to share with the audience.

Oh, sure.

So there is a charity that is based in Sheffield in the UK, um,

which is the city that I live in.

It's not my hometown, it's my adopted home.

Um, but it's called baby basics and I, I love it because, what they do

is they, they collect in kind of secondhand stuff, but they also.

Buy some equipment new, but they provide things like Moses baskets, baby clothes,

nappies, for all kind of stages of child development for underprivileged family.

And, um, they've, they've been very involved in sort of, we, we had a

lot of Afghan immigrants arriving in the UK because of like the, the

terrible situation in Afghanistan.

Um, they were very involved in preparing packs for people,

with things like car seats.

Um, clothes, winter clothes, coats, you know, the very practical thing that if

you're coming from a desert country and moving to the UK, you absolutely need.

Um, but they've also been doing a similar, um, campaign for people

arriving, um, in the UK, from the Ukraine.

So, they're a charity that I love to support.

I've I've given them a ton of like my.

Baby stuff, which was still in like really lovely condition.

And you just think, I love that this is going somewhere where it can be used,

cuz it's got so much more life in it.

But also, they take, financial donations and they also often have

an Amazon wishlist or two where you can literally just go and buy, um,

like 10 high chairs or something like that, whatever is needed.

So yeah, baby basics are, are my charity of choice.

Fantastic.

We will have that in the show notes.

Do you have an offer that you'd like to share with the audience?

Um, yeah, so we've touched on haven't we kind of what

it takes to grow a business for sale.

As I shared, I have been involved in this it's like selling a house times a

thousand , as part of that, like, All of the things that I learned, I kind of wrote

into this framework, which I call the six elements for seven figure business.

I have that available as a PDF, which is free to download.

And I'm sure we can put the, the link to that in the show notes, but it, it covers

all the things that you need to know to build a strong business as a consultant.

Um, and if you are thinking about selling one day, then these are things

which will be really, really helpful.

They are literally the things that we were taught, um, when we were going through

this process of turning a six figure business into a seven figure business.

They are things that like.

Don't get talked about things like risk.

So like as a quick example, we realized, um, during this process that 90% of

our work, possibly even 95% of our work was all with the same one client.

And from a risk point of view, it's just like, ah,

yes.

Yes.

That will client.

Yes.

It's these things that, you know, it's, it's not like marketing,

um, because often in a consulting business, like you actually don't need

to do a lot of marketing because a lot of it comes through relationships, um,

and referrals and that kind of thing.

So it's, it's not necessarily the things that you see talked about when it comes to

online business, but it's, it's the stuff that, as a consultant, you absolutely need

to know about in order to build a really thriving seven figure consulting business.

That's fantastic.

Thank you.

That will definitely be in the show notes and accompanying.

It will be where people can find you.

Yeah, thank you.

So I, I have my website, jessicafearnley.com.

There's a secret a in Fearnley, but I'm sure we can cover that in the show notes.

Um, but come and find me on LinkedIn.

Um, I love LinkedIn as we've talked about, I use it prolifically.

So do do come and connect with me on LinkedIn.

Send me a, a message in the DMS and just say that you've

heard me on Erin's podcast.

I would love to talk to.

That is so fantastic.

Thank you so much for joining me, Jessica.

This has been just a fountain of wisdom and information.

Thank you again.

And, uh, I look forward to the next time.

Thank you for having me.

It's been just awesome.