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Did Jesus Fulfill the Messianic Prophecies?
Episode 36th June 2021 • Our Hope Podcast • Chosen People Ministries
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How do we know for certain that Yeshua is the prophesied Messiah? In this week's episode of Our Hope Podcast 🎙, Chosen People Ministries' staff member Robert Walter helps us unpack how Jesus fulfills the Messianic prophecies in the Tanakh, or Old Testament. Listen now!

Transcripts

Speaker:

Welcome to Our Hope,

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a production of Chosen

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People Ministries.

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On this podcast you will hear

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inspiring testimonies,

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learn about Messianic

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apologetics and discover

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God's plan for Israel and you.

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Wherever you're listening,

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we hope you lean in,

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listen closely and be blessed.

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“There will be no

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end to the increase

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of His government

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or of peace, On

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the throne of David

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and over his kingdom, To

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establish it

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and to uphold it with justice

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and righteousness From then on

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and forevermore. The

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zeal of the Lord of hosts

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will accomplish this.”

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Isaiah 9:7.

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This is one of many prophecies

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about the Messiah

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in the Tanakh, or

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the Old Testament.

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When we think about

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the question, “Did

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Jesus fulfill the

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Messianic prophecies?”,

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we would first

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need to understand what

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these prophecies reveal

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about the Messiah.

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Isaiah chapter

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9 is one prophecy

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that has stirred a deep longing

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for a perfect King,

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who would bring about

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the promised age of world

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peace and justice.

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One thing both Jewish

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people and believers in

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Jesus would agree on

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is that the Messiah is

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to fulfill

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such a glorious role.

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His Kingdom will be perfect,

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without any injustice

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or suffering.

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However,

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one of the main objections

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to Yeshua fulfilling

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this Messianic prophecy

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is that though He came

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2,000 years ago,

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there is still no peace

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in this world.

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But there are many other

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prophecies in the Tanakh,

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and today we will attempt

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to understand them in relation

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to who this Messiah is—is

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it Yeshua,

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or are we waiting for

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a different Messiah?

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Joining us today for this

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discussion is Chosen

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People Ministries'

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staff member, Robert Walter.

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I now introduce

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the host of Our Hope

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Podcast, Abe Vazquez.

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Robert.

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I have a bone to pick with you.

Robert:

Okay Abe.

Robert:

Hello, by the way.

Abe:

Oh, hello.

Abe:

I forgot we're supposed

Abe:

to start with "hellos".

Abe:

Well, Robert,

Abe:

you were one of

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our first guests

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on Our Hope Podcast,

Abe:

and now it seems

Abe:

you went off and started

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your own radio program.

Abe:

So, you're on over

Abe:

a hundred stations

Abe:

across the US and you're

Abe:

co-hosting with Dr.

Abe:

Mitch Glaser.

Abe:

Where's the loyalty man?

Robert:

You know

Robert:

there comes a time

Robert:

and person's life

Robert:

where they just have to sort of

Robert:

dive out of the nest

Robert:

and begin flapping

Robert:

their wings, Abe.

Robert:

I mean, you know,

Robert:

don't take it personally,

Robert:

you're my friend.

Robert:

You know, you're my coworker.

Robert:

I love you, you're

Robert:

my brother in Messiah.

Robert:

But you know, it is what it is.

Abe:

Well, well thanks.

Abe:

Thanks man.

Abe:

No, but in all seriousness, I

Abe:

think this radio broadcast

Abe:

that we're doing

Abe:

is really awesome.

Abe:

It's called the Chosen People,

Abe:

co-hosted by Dr.

Abe:

Mitch Glaser and Robert Walter.

Abe:

Do you want to talk

Abe:

a little bit

Abe:

about some of the topics

Abe:

you all cover

Abe:

and some of the guests

Abe:

that we have on that?

Robert:

Yeah, yeah, actually,

Robert:

it's been a great experience.

Robert:

So far.

Robert:

We've been on the air

Robert:

for just over a month now

Robert:

and it's

Robert:

been a learning experience

Robert:

and we've talked about

Robert:

some really exciting stuff

Robert:

like Messianic Prophecy,

Robert:

which I believe

Robert:

we're going to be

Robert:

discussing today

Robert:

as Nicole mentioned,

Robert:

and we've had

Robert:

some great guests.

Robert:

We've had Dr.

Robert:

Michael Rydelnik

Robert:

from Open Line Radio joined us

Robert:

and we've got some more guests

Robert:

lined up in the next

Robert:

coming months

Robert:

that I'm pretty excited

Robert:

about as well. Awesome!

Robert:

Well, congratulations.

Robert:

Don't forget about us.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Abe:

Diving into today's topic,

Abe:

this question of

Abe:

"Did Jesus fulfill

Abe:

the Messianic prophecies?"

Abe:

I think it's a pretty big one.

Abe:

There are lots of

Abe:

messianic prophecies

Abe:

throughout Scripture

Abe:

and there are

Abe:

many interpretations of it,

Abe:

depending on who you ask.

Abe:

And we we know that

Abe:

these prophecies

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point to Jesus,

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but there are many

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who just don't believe

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that and struggle with that

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so we're hoping that

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in the short time

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that we have on this podcast

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that we can answer that

Abe:

question, "Did

Abe:

Jesus really fulfill

Abe:

these messianic prophecies?"

Abe:

So one of the first prophecies,

Abe:

and I think this is the obvious

Abe:

and most popular

Abe:

one, is Isaiah 53.

Abe:

This chapter

Abe:

in the Book of Isaiah.

Abe:

Many Jewish people claim

Abe:

that this prophecy

Abe:

is about Israel and

Abe:

not the Messiah.

Abe:

Robert, can you unpack why

Abe:

they believe this?

Robert:

Yeah, yeah,

Robert:

well this is a pretty important

Robert:

one and a common objection

Robert:

and I think part of

Robert:

the reason is because

Robert:

when you read that chapter

Robert:

and you know

Robert:

we always say Isaiah 53,

Robert:

but really it goes

Robert:

from Isaiah 52:13

Robert:

through chapter 53:12.

Robert:

And it's an amazing prophecy

Robert:

because it clearly lays

Robert:

out the suffering,

Robert:

the humble beginnings,

Robert:

the death, the burial,

Robert:

the resurrection

Robert:

of one innocent,

Robert:

blameless human being, one man,

Robert:

who goes through all of this

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suffering and lays

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down His life

Robert:

and actually dies

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for a purpose,

Robert:

to pay for the crimes, sins

Robert:

and transgressions

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of what's called

Robert:

the many

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– so many other people,

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including Israel

Robert:

and the nations as well.

Robert:

So it's, you know,

Robert:

there's a global impact

Robert:

that the death of

Robert:

this servant of God has,

Robert:

according to Isaiah 53.

Robert:

So, many, many Jewish

Robert:

people over the years

Robert:

have come to faith

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in Jesus in Yeshua

Robert:

through Isaiah 53.

Robert:

The Jewish community –

Robert:

what has developed over

Robert:

the years is sort

Robert:

of an

Robert:

alternative interpretation

Robert:

of that chapter,

Robert:

of that prophecy.

Robert:

And like you said,

Robert:

the primary recommendation

Robert:

now, or the primary suggestion

Robert:

now is that

Robert:

the servant of Isaiah 53

Robert:

is not talking about

Robert:

the individual Messiah,

Robert:

but that it's talking about

Robert:

the nation of Israel.

Abe:

Interesting.

Robert:

And this

Robert:

really became popular

Robert:

in the Middle Ages,

Robert:

and there were three

Robert:

really prominent

Robert:

Rabbinic voices

Robert:

that began to suggest

Robert:

and push this interpretation.

Robert:

One was Radak,

Robert:

another was Ibn Ezra

Robert:

and then the third was Rashi.

Robert:

And Rashi is, I mean

Robert:

he is appealed to

Robert:

by the religious

Robert:

Jewish community

Robert:

as an authoritative voice,

Robert:

even to this day.

Robert:

I mean very, very

Robert:

prolific commentator

Robert:

on the Old Testament

Robert:

and on Jewish life

Robert:

and Jewish interpretation

Robert:

of the Torah, of the prophets,

Robert:

of the writings and tradition,

Robert:

and all of that.

Robert:

So there's there's like,

Robert:

you know, different

Robert:

suggestions on why

Robert:

this became the prevalent

Robert:

interpretation of Isaiah

Robert:

53 in that time.

Robert:

One suggestion, some believe

Robert:

that it was actually a reaction

Robert:

to Christian

Robert:

missionaries, Christians

Robert:

coming and bringing Isaiah

Robert:

53 to the Jewish community

Robert:

and pointing out

Robert:

how much it sounds like Jesus

Robert:

and how Jesus must

Robert:

be the One who fulfills this.

Robert:

So as a reaction

Robert:

to that, this alternative

Robert:

interpretation was developed

Robert:

that no,

Robert:

no, it's talking about,

Robert:

not the Messiah, it's

Robert:

talking about Israel.

Robert:

So is it unfounded?

Robert:

Well, yes, and no.

Robert:

There are textual reasons

Robert:

why the Jewish community

Robert:

and leaders in the Jewish

Robert:

community adhere to

Robert:

this interpretation.

Robert:

One is

Robert:

with the use of the word Evatt.

Robert:

Evatt is a Hebrew word.

Robert:

It means servant,

Robert:

and in this section of Isaiah

Robert:

you know,

Robert:

Isaiah is an amazing book

Robert:

and an amazing prophecy.

Robert:

The first 39 chapters of Isaiah

Robert:

have a certain tone

Robert:

and a certain certain focus.

Robert:

Once you hit chapter 40

Robert:

that tone

Robert:

and that focus changes,

Robert:

you get into a much

Robert:

more hopeful picture

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and a lot more promises

Robert:

that God gives to Israel

Robert:

in Isaiah chapter

Robert:

40 through chapter 66.

Robert:

And in this section,

Robert:

beginning in Isaiah 42,

Robert:

we have what are called

Robert:

the Servant Songs of Isaiah,

Robert:

the Servant Songs of Isaiah.

Robert:

So, these are Isaiah 42:1–4,

Robert:

Isaiah 49:1–6, Isaiah 50:4–7,

Robert:

and Isaiah 52:13 through 53:12.

Robert:

Now when we look

Robert:

at these servants songs

Robert:

that word "eved" is

Robert:

used for servants and sometimes

Robert:

in these chapters

Robert:

the servant is referring

Robert:

to the nation.

Robert:

You know, it's valid.

Robert:

In Isaiah 41, Isaiah 42,

Robert:

Isaiah 43, 44, 45,

Robert:

and even in Isaiah 48:20,

Robert:

the word servant is

Robert:

used to describe

Robert:

the nation of Israel.

Robert:

In other cases,

Robert:

in these chapters

Robert:

"eved", the word

Robert:

servant is used to refer

Robert:

to a righteous individual.

Robert:

So, once we get to Isaiah

Robert:

49:3, Isaiah 49:5–7

Robert:

Isaiah 49:5–7, Isaiah 50:10.

Robert:

Now we're looking at the use

Robert:

of the word servant

Robert:

as describing this

Robert:

righteous individual,

Robert:

who we later

Robert:

realize is the Messiah.

Robert:

Now, in some some cases

Robert:

and some of the verses,

Robert:

it's unclear

Robert:

who we're talking about.

Robert:

It could be the nation.

Robert:

It could be an individual,

Robert:

but really there's only like

Robert:

two or three verses

Robert:

in the whole section.

Robert:

Isaiah 42:1, Isaiah 44:1–2

Robert:

where we're not totally sure,

Robert:

but what we do see

Robert:

what we can say with confidence

Robert:

is that once we get to

Robert:

Isaiah 48:20 and forward

Robert:

every use of "eved", of servant

Robert:

is focused in on an individual.

Robert:

It's talking about

Robert:

a righteous individual.

Robert:

So once we get to Isaiah 53,

Robert:

Isaiah is focusing more

Robert:

and more.

Robert:

You know

Robert:

it's almost like you know

Robert:

he begins with sort of

Robert:

like a broad view

Robert:

of the servant of the nation,

Robert:

and then he begins

Robert:

to hone in on this one

Robert:

righteous individual

Robert:

who's a member of

Robert:

the nation, who's

Robert:

connected to the nation, right?

Robert:

But he comes into

Robert:

focus more and more.

Nicole:

Yeah, I think there is

Nicole:

a few reasons why

Nicole:

we can point to the fact

Nicole:

that it's an individual,

Nicole:

not the entire nation.

Nicole:

I mean, how can Israel

Nicole:

be cut off for Israel?

Nicole:

Or how could Israel,

Nicole:

you know, die for Israel.

Robert:

Right.

Robert:

Right, and you know

Robert:

there are a few

Robert:

other reasons why

Robert:

you know, it kind of

Robert:

doesn't make sense.

Robert:

I mean, granted

Robert:

there are certain Hebrew

Robert:

words and verbs that

Robert:

are used in Isaiah 53

Robert:

in that chapter that are plural

Robert:

rather than singular,

Robert:

but it doesn't really,

Robert:

it

Robert:

doesn't detract from the fact

Robert:

that it's talking about

Robert:

an individual, alright.

Robert:

Okay, so Nicole,

Robert:

you mentioned how Israel

Robert:

cannot be cut off

Robert:

from the land of the living

Robert:

for the sake of Israel,

Robert:

and even for the other nations.

Robert:

But another like

Robert:

really strong reason

Robert:

why it's talking

Robert:

about an individual

Robert:

and not the nation

Robert:

is because of how

Robert:

the servant is portrayed.

Robert:

This servant, He's portrayed

Robert:

as being righteous,

Robert:

as being blameless,

Robert:

as not being deserving

Robert:

of this suffering

Robert:

that He's enduring.

Robert:

Well, let's ask

Robert:

a follow-up question to that,

Robert:

and honestly, I'm

Robert:

like indebted to Dr.

Robert:

Michael Brown

Robert:

for laying this out.

Robert:

You know, I was able to

Robert:

sit under his tutelage

Robert:

and really dig deep into Isaiah

Robert:

53 a number of years ago.

Robert:

And when we look at

Robert:

how Israel is described

Robert:

in other places in Isaiah

Robert:

or even in other places

Robert:

in the Tanakh and

Robert:

the other prophets,

Robert:

so if we look in in Jeremiah

Robert:

in Jeremiah 32:28–36

Robert:

or in Ezekiel 5:5–17,

Robert:

or if we look in

Robert:

even other prophets like Hosea

Robert:

and Amos.

Robert:

The way that Israel is

Robert:

described is not

Robert:

is not righteous.

Robert:

That's not how Israel

Robert:

is described at all.

Robert:

Israel as a nation

Robert:

is being chastised

Robert:

by these prophets

Robert:

because of her sin.

Robert:

You know that

Robert:

that's a big reason

Robert:

that God even sends

Robert:

the prophets to begin with.

Robert:

He sends the prophes

Robert:

not just to you know, foretell

Robert:

what's going to happen

Robert:

in the future,

Robert:

the prophets are sent

Robert:

by God to Israel or to Judah,

Robert:

or to a certain tribe,

Robert:

or to a certain individual,

Robert:

whoever it is,

Robert:

and they're sent with a purpose

Robert:

of pointing out and calling out

Robert:

the sin of the nation

Robert:

or the tribe or the individual,

Robert:

or whoever it is

Robert:

and giving a call

Robert:

to repentance.

Robert:

Calling out to that

Robert:

person or that nation

Robert:

to come back to God

Robert:

to turn away from sin

Robert:

and to come back to the Lord.

Robert:

And in the process

Robert:

these prophets will

Robert:

will foretell

Robert:

what's going to happen

Robert:

and what is still yet

Robert:

to come in the future.

Robert:

But this really speaks

Robert:

to a big part of the

Robert:

principle of prophecy.

Robert:

God gives prophecy,

Robert:

not so that we'll just know

Robert:

what's going to happen

Robert:

in the future, but

Robert:

prophecy is given

Robert:

so that it impacts

Robert:

how we live right now.

Robert:

We'll be right back.

Robert:

During these difficult times,

Robert:

we know how hard it is

Robert:

to hold on to hope,

Robert:

and we want you to know

Robert:

that Chosen People Ministries

Robert:

is here for you.

Robert:

If you have any prayer

Robert:

requests, our prayer team

Robert:

is standing by to receive them.

Robert:

You can submit your request

Robert:

at chosenpeople.com/pray, again

Robert:

that's chosenpeople.com/pray.

Nicole:

So Robert,

Nicole:

I remember reading in Genesis 3

Nicole:

after the fall, after Adam

Nicole:

and Eve sinned,

Nicole:

God says to Adam and Eve that

Nicole:

the seed of the woman

Nicole:

would be at emnity

Nicole:

with the serpent,

Nicole:

and that he will

Nicole:

crush the Serpent's head,

Nicole:

and the serpent

Nicole:

will bruise his heel

Nicole:

and we see that as a prophecy

Nicole:

that Yeshua fulfilled.

Nicole:

How does the Jewish

Nicole:

community interpret this

Nicole:

and how do we know that

Nicole:

Yeshua fulfilled this?

Nicole:

Yeah, that's that's

Nicole:

an excellent question.

Nicole:

As far as how the Jewish

Nicole:

community interprets

Nicole:

that particular promise,

Nicole:

it isn't necessarily

Nicole:

given the same kind of weight

Nicole:

that it is in the

Nicole:

Christian community today.

Nicole:

I mean, it's

Nicole:

an important passage

Nicole:

because it really sort of

Nicole:

introduces this, you know,

Nicole:

it's almost like the

Nicole:

first note in a song

Nicole:

that begins to build and play

Nicole:

throughout the rest

Nicole:

of the Torah –

Nicole:

the first five books –

Nicole:

and you know all of Scripture,

Nicole:

the prophets, the writings

Nicole:

and ultimately we would believe

Nicole:

in the New Testament as well.

Nicole:

And

Nicole:

that passage is considered

Nicole:

the first Messianic

Nicole:

prophecy in the Bible.

Abe:

Right.

Robert:

It's

Robert:

considered the first

Robert:

promise from God

Robert:

that He would send

Robert:

this special, unique individual

Robert:

who would come to take care

Robert:

of the sin

Robert:

problem in the world.

Robert:

I mean, if you look at what's

Robert:

going on there, Adam and Eve,

Robert:

like you said,

Robert:

they've just sinned,

Robert:

they've rebelled.

Robert:

They've fallen short

Robert:

and the first thing

Robert:

that they did after

Robert:

they sinned and realized

Robert:

that they had done wrong

Robert:

is they try to hide

Robert:

in their guilt in their shame.

Abe:

Yeah.

Abe:

And I love that this prophecy

Abe:

is given by God Himself.

Abe:

It's the first one given,

Abe:

and it's not given

Abe:

through a prophet

Abe:

or through a mouthpiece.

Abe:

It's given directly by God.

Robert:

Right.

Abe:

And that it's a promise

Abe:

made directly from Him,

Abe:

which is pretty cool.

Robert:

Yeah, that

Robert:

is pretty amazing

Robert:

because it's not in you know

Robert:

there's not visions or

Robert:

awkward sayings.

Robert:

This is God Himself

Robert:

promising this

Robert:

and prophesying here.

Robert:

So that is pretty powerful

Robert:

when you look at

Robert:

and begin to sort of dissect

Robert:

the promise that God makes.

Robert:

He's describing

Robert:

the suffering servant there.

Robert:

He's describing a servant

Robert:

who's going to have

Robert:

a unique birth.

Robert:

Who's going to enter

Robert:

into the world in

Robert:

a very unique way.

Robert:

You know, well,

Robert:

how can we say that?

Robert:

He's speaking to the serpent

Robert:

and He says that the seed

Robert:

of the woman right?

Robert:

Now, the seed of the

Robert:

woman, biologically

Robert:

even back then, in

Robert:

the ancient Near

Robert:

East they understood that

Robert:

the man had the seed

Robert:

part, not the woman.

Robert:

So right away

Robert:

just in saying that

Robert:

it would be the seed

Robert:

of the woman, it lets us know

Robert:

that this Savior

Robert:

would have unique origins,

Robert:

that He would be

Robert:

born miraculously,

Robert:

and God has a track record

Robert:

of doing this throughout

Robert:

the Old Testament

Robert:

we see some miraculousness

Robert:

conceptions and miraculous

Robert:

births, right?

Robert:

We see with Abraham and Sarah

Robert:

later on in Genesis,

Robert:

as they in Genesis 18,

Robert:

you know they're they're old.

Robert:

Abraham is very old

Robert:

and Sarah is beyond

Robert:

childbearing years,

Robert:

which means that

Robert:

her womb is dead.

Robert:

She cannot bear a child

Robert:

naturally, but yet God promises

Robert:

that a year later

Robert:

he would return and she

Robert:

would have a son Isaac,

Robert:

and sure enough,

Robert:

a year goes by God visits again

Robert:

and she has a son,

Robert:

and his name is Isaac.

Robert:

God intervened

Robert:

into a barren place of death

Robert:

and brought life

Robert:

and brought the son

Robert:

of promise right?

Robert:

And then even later on in

Robert:

Isaiah 7, you know we have the

Robert:

famous prophecy about

Robert:

the Virgin

Robert:

will conceive and give birth,

Robert:

and ultimately when we come

Robert:

to the New Testament,

Robert:

we see that Yeshua,

Robert:

Jesus was

Robert:

miraculously conceived

Robert:

and in the womb of a virgin

Robert:

by the

Robert:

power of the Holy Spirit,

Robert:

and He had these unique

Robert:

origins.

Robert:

This unique birth experience.

Abe:

So when that

Abe:

particular prophecy says

Abe:

the seed of the woman

Abe:

will crush the Serpent's head,

Abe:

what does that actually mean?

Robert:

Yeah, yeah.

Robert:

So again, when we begin

Robert:

to like, dissect that prophecy,

Robert:

this is really important

Robert:

because the picture is painted

Robert:

that the seed of the woman,

Robert:

this special unique individual,

Robert:

who has this special unique

Robert:

origin and miraculous birth

Robert:

that

Robert:

a big part of the reason

Robert:

of His coming, of His service

Robert:

is He would crush the head

Robert:

of the

Robert:

serpent, and in the process

Robert:

His heel

Robert:

would be bruised, right?

Robert:

He would suffer in the process

Robert:

of crushing the head

Robert:

of the serpent.

Robert:

Now in the ancient Near

Robert:

East, in the Bible,

Robert:

I mean we have examples of this

Robert:

to crush someone's head

Robert:

or to even remove

Robert:

someone's head.

Robert:

Okay, like

Robert:

you think of King David

Robert:

when he slayed Goliath.

Robert:

What did he do as Goliath's

Robert:

corpse was laying there

Robert:

on the battlefield?

Robert:

He went over, took the blade

Robert:

and chopped his head off

Robert:

and then and then showed it

Robert:

to the Philistines

Robert:

and that is what struck

Robert:

fear into their hearts

Robert:

and caused them to scatter.

Robert:

Why?

Robert:

Because in the ancient Near

Robert:

East, in this world,

Robert:

to take someone's head or crush

Robert:

someone's head meant that

Robert:

you were taking

Robert:

all of their life force,

Robert:

all of their power, right?

Robert:

So for the

Robert:

the Messiah,

Robert:

ultimately in Genesis 3

Robert:

to crush

Robert:

the head of the serpent means

Robert:

that He is putting

Robert:

a final end to the serpent,

Robert:

the deceiver, the enemy, right?

Robert:

Who crept in

Robert:

and introduced all this chaos

Robert:

into creation

Robert:

as he deceived Eve.

Robert:

And what's also amazing

Robert:

is that His heel

Robert:

would be bruised as He crushed

Robert:

the head of the serpent,

Robert:

so in the process

Robert:

of gaining victory

Robert:

over the enemy, over

Robert:

sin, over death,

Robert:

He would suffer.

Robert:

And to be wounded on your heel

Robert:

in that world,

Robert:

it was a death sentence.

Robert:

You know, whether

Robert:

you were an animal

Robert:

or a human right?

Robert:

I mean, we even think of

Robert:

like Greek mythology.

Nicole:

Achilles.

Robert:

Achilles, exactly yeah,

Robert:

I mean his weak spot

Robert:

was his heel.

Robert:

So to have a bruised

Robert:

heel meant that you would die

Robert:

that you wouldn't

Robert:

be able to fend for yourself.

Robert:

You wouldn't be able

Robert:

to keep up with the tribe.

Robert:

You wouldn't be able

Robert:

to provide for yourself.

Robert:

It was a death sentence.

Robert:

So ultimately,

Robert:

when we come to

Robert:

the New Testament

Robert:

and we look at the

Robert:

Ministry of Jesus,

Robert:

the service of Jesus

Robert:

as the Messiah, we see that

Robert:

a big part of the role

Robert:

of the Messiah here

Robert:

was to suffer that

Robert:

it was through suffering

Robert:

that He would achieve

Robert:

and obtain the victory.

Abe:

So Robert,

Abe:

you know there's

Abe:

some people who would say that

Abe:

if Yeshua really is

Abe:

the Messiah then He failed.

Abe:

Which is funny,

Abe:

because if He failed

Abe:

He wouldn't be the

Abe:

Messiah, but anyways,

Abe:

and their rationale

Abe:

behind that is that

Abe:

He was supposed to bring peace

Abe:

and we know that

Abe:

there are themes

Abe:

and certain scriptures

Abe:

that talk about, for example,

Abe:

Nicole read it earlier,

Abe:

Isaiah 9:7.

Abe:

But I'll read from 6 to 7, "For

Abe:

a child will be born to us.

Abe:

A son will be given to us

Abe:

and the government will rest

Abe:

on his shoulders and his name

Abe:

will be called

Abe:

wonderful counselor,

Abe:

Mighty God, Eternal Father,

Abe:

Prince of Peace.

Abe:

There will be no end

Abe:

to the increase

Abe:

of his government or

Abe:

of peace,

Abe:

on the throne of David

Abe:

and over his Kingdom

Abe:

to establish it

Abe:

and to uphold it with justice

Abe:

and righteousness.

Abe:

From then on and forever

Abe:

more, the zeal of

Abe:

the Lord of hosts

Abe:

will accomplish this.:

Abe:

That's Isaiah 9:6–7.

Abe:

So what does Judaism teach

Abe:

regarding the prophecies

Abe:

about what the Messiah will do?

Robert:

Yeah, so

Robert:

this is a question

Robert:

or even an objection

Robert:

that we get pretty often,

Robert:

quite frequently,

Robert:

when we're talking with Jewish

Robert:

people and it's valid,

Robert:

I mean it's a valid question.

Robert:

Like if I was Jewish,

Robert:

I would want to know,

Robert:

hey, if He's the Messiah,

Robert:

then why is there no peace?

Robert:

And why is this a question?

Robert:

Well, because of

Robert:

what you just read,

Robert:

you know,

Robert:

and multiple other passages

Robert:

in the Tanakh, in

Robert:

the Old Testament.

Robert:

The coming of the

Robert:

Messiah is equated

Robert:

with the coming of peace,

Robert:

where Israel's

Robert:

enemies are put at bay

Robert:

or are destroyed

Robert:

and the Messiah establishes

Robert:

His throne in Jerusalem,

Robert:

and He rules and reigns

Robert:

from that throne, and finally

Robert:

everything is set straight,

Robert:

everything is good, right?

Robert:

Everything is restored

Robert:

and we have peace.

Robert:

We have Shalom, everything

Robert:

in its right place.

Robert:

How do we respond to this?

Robert:

I always like to mention that

Robert:

Jesus was Jewish, right?

Robert:

Jesus was Jewish, He knew this.

Robert:

He knew very well

Robert:

these these prophecies.

Robert:

He knew the description

Robert:

of the Messiah.

Robert:

He knew what people

Robert:

were expecting

Robert:

about the Messiah yet

Robert:

He still claimed

Robert:

to be the Messiah.

Robert:

He made that claim, you know,

Robert:

through His words,

Robert:

through His actions.

Robert:

Yeshua, Jesus made this claim.

Abe:

He stood up in read one.

Nicole:

In Synagogue, yeah.

Robert:

Exactly, exactly.

Abe:

Which is which

Abe:

is insane to me.

Abe:

I love that.

Abe:

Like, He's stood up

Abe:

and read a prophecy

about Himself. Robert:

Right.

Nicole:

And then He says,

Nicole:

"This was fulfilled

Nicole:

in your Presence."

Robert:

Yeah, it's like

Robert:

the ultimate mic drop.

Abe:

Yeah, ultimate mic drop.

Abe:

What would they have drop back

Abe:

then? Like, I don't know.

Nicole:

A Shofar drop.

Abe:

Shofar drop!

Robert:

Yeah, so

Robert:

you know how

Robert:

could He be aware

Robert:

of these prophecies

Robert:

and these expectations

Robert:

about the Messiah,

Robert:

and these promises

Robert:

about the Messiah like this?

Robert:

God said this, this is

Robert:

going to happen, right?

Robert:

So how could He do that

Robert:

and yet still make

Robert:

these claims to be the Messiah?

Robert:

And when He came the first time

Robert:

He didn't usher

Robert:

in that peace yet,

Robert:

He didn't usher in the fullness

Robert:

of all those Kingdom promises

Robert:

that we see in the Tanakh,

Robert:

so there must

Robert:

be something more.

Robert:

There must be something more

Robert:

that is being left

Robert:

out of the objection.

Robert:

And sure enough, Jesus himself

Robert:

spoke about this in Luke

Robert:

17:22–25, He's talking

Robert:

about the time

Robert:

of the Son of Man

Robert:

and He makes this statement

Robert:

where He says that

Robert:

first OK,

Robert:

as He's describing this

Robert:

the day of the Son of Man

Robert:

and the time of the Son of Man,

Robert:

He says, first, He

Robert:

the Messiah must suffer.

Robert:

Okay, that's Luke 17:25.

Robert:

But first,

Robert:

He must suffer many things

Robert:

and be

Robert:

rejected by His generation.

Robert:

So where does that come from?

Robert:

Did Jesus just make

Robert:

that up in that moment?

Robert:

Well, no, no, because again,

Robert:

we look back into the Tanakh.

Robert:

We look back into

Robert:

the Old Testament,

Robert:

and you know, we've talked

Robert:

about a number

Robert:

of these passages already,

Robert:

but

Robert:

Isaiah 53 is a prime example

Robert:

where we see that

Robert:

the Messiah must suffer first.

Robert:

Before you get to

Robert:

the end of chapter 53 in Isaiah

Robert:

where you see the Messiah,

Robert:

you see the rejoicing,

Robert:

you see the intercession,

Robert:

you see things set

Robert:

straight, you see peace,

Robert:

right before you get there

Robert:

and actually the means

Robert:

of arriving at that place

Robert:

is through the suffering

Robert:

of the Messiah.

Robert:

You see it in Genesis 3, right?

Robert:

We talked about that.

Robert:

You see it in Zachariah 12,

Robert:

before this fountain

Robert:

is opened up in Jerusalem

Robert:

that brings fresh living water

Robert:

to the nation to the city

Robert:

before all of that happens,

Robert:

the Messiah returns.

Robert:

And it's described

Robert:

as such a powerful moment

Robert:

where God is speaking

Robert:

and He says you will

Robert:

look upon me whom

Robert:

you have pierced

Robert:

and mourn for Him

Robert:

as one mourns for an only son.

Robert:

So the suffering

Robert:

is the prerequisite,

Robert:

the suffering is

Robert:

what's required before

Robert:

we get to the fullness of all

Robert:

those promises about peace.

Nicole:

Something that both

Nicole:

the Jewish community

Nicole:

and believers in Jesus share

Nicole:

is that we're both longing

Nicole:

for this

Nicole:

Messianic age of peace.

Nicole:

So how can we I guess,

Nicole:

reach out or just comfort

Nicole:

people who are waiting for it.

Nicole:

What can we point to

Nicole:

in the Old Testament,

Nicole:

in the Tanakh that

Nicole:

points to the second coming

Nicole:

and what's

Nicole:

happening in the future?

Nicole:

So let me let me answer that

Nicole:

in two different ways.

Nicole:

First, I think it's

Nicole:

incredibly important

Nicole:

for us as believers to realize

Nicole:

and recognize, and

Nicole:

walk in this truth

Nicole:

that we are citizens

Nicole:

of that Kingdom.

Nicole:

That Kingdom of peace

Nicole:

that's described

Nicole:

that you read about in

Nicole:

Isaiah 9, we are

Nicole:

citizens of that Kingdom.

Nicole:

We have a taste of

Nicole:

that Kingdom even.

Nicole:

We have God's presence,

Nicole:

His Holy Spirit

Nicole:

dwelling inside of us.

Nicole:

So naturally

Nicole:

we should be

Nicole:

walking in the Spirit

Nicole:

and letting our light shine

Nicole:

so that other people

Nicole:

can recognize the

Nicole:

difference in us,

Nicole:

not because of who we are,

Nicole:

but because of who

Nicole:

the Messiah is

Nicole:

and what He's done

Nicole:

in our lives.

Nicole:

Yeshua said it Himself,

Nicole:

they'll know us,

Nicole:

they'll know that

Nicole:

we are His disciples

Nicole:

by our love

Nicole:

for one another, right?

Nicole:

So it's not, you know,

Nicole:

how good our Hebrew is, or

Nicole:

how good our Yiddish is or

Nicole:

what nice people

Nicole:

we are,

it's- Abe:

Or who's right.

Robert:

Or who's right.

Abe:

Trying to win an argument?

Robert:

Yeah, yeah.

Robert:

It's our love right?

Robert:

The love of God being lived

Robert:

out in our lives

Robert:

and being recognized.

Robert:

It's important,

Robert:

you know, to know

Robert:

the scriptures.

Robert:

It's important to

Robert:

do all these things

Robert:

but the one thing that stands

Robert:

out is the love.

Robert:

Second part of the answer to

Robert:

the question is where

Robert:

can we look in the Tanakh?

Robert:

Where can we look in

Robert:

the Old Testament where we see

Robert:

the second coming,

Robert:

where we see the return of

Robert:

the king, the Messiah.

Robert:

And what comes to

Robert:

my mind is Ezekiel, Ezekiel 37.

Robert:

So when you look

Robert:

in Ezekiel 37:1–14

Robert:

or you know honestly

Robert:

the whole chapter.

Robert:

But the first 14 verses

Robert:

really describe this

Robert:

End Time regathering

Robert:

and rebirth of the

Robert:

Nation of Israel

Robert:

and it's split up

Robert:

into two phases.

Robert:

You have a physical

Robert:

regathering of the people,

Robert:

the descendants of Abraham,

Robert:

Isaac, and Jacob

Robert:

to the physical land of Israel.

Robert:

The land of promise.

Robert:

And then that's

Robert:

the first phase.

Robert:

The second phase

Robert:

is a spiritual regeneration

Robert:

of the entire nation.

Robert:

God breathing life, His spirit

Robert:

into a nation

Robert:

that is, you know, described

Robert:

as spiritually dead.

Robert:

But then they are resurrected

Robert:

by this power of

Robert:

God, by the Spirit of God.

Robert:

And then you

Robert:

keep reading, right?

Robert:

We keep reading.

Robert:

We see the divided Kingdom,

Robert:

the ten tribes in

Robert:

the North Israel

Robert:

and the southern tribes Judah

Robert:

reunited, right?

Robert:

God is bringing things

Robert:

back together.

Robert:

He's restoring his

Robert:

people in the land.

Robert:

OK,

Robert:

and this is all End Time stuff.

Robert:

And then we come

Robert:

to the last section

Robert:

beginning in verse 24, right?

Robert:

It says this, my servant David.

Robert:

So you think just

Robert:

those few words

Robert:

there, my servant

Robert:

David will be king over them,

Robert:

and they will all

Robert:

have one shepherd.

Robert:

I mean, we could

Robert:

we could spend an hour

Robert:

just unpacking that verse

Robert:

in all of those words

Robert:

that are used to describe

Robert:

this individual.

Robert:

He's a servant.

Robert:

He's a descendant of David

Robert:

right? He's a king.

Robert:

He's a shepherd.

Robert:

These are all Messianic terms.

Robert:

These are Messiah-like terms

Robert:

and you know, I always,

Robert:

I always like

Robert:

to use the analogy

Robert:

of a lightning rod.

Robert:

I used to live in

Robert:

South Florida, okay,

Robert:

and there are more

Robert:

lightning strikes in Florida

Robert:

than I think anywhere else

Robert:

in the in the world.

Robert:

But maybe not the world,

Robert:

but in the UK.

Robert:

You can fact check me on that.

Abe:

We will.

Robert:

Yes, you will.

Robert:

Thank you.

Robert:

So some houses down there

Robert:

will have lightning rods

Robert:

on the top of the house

Robert:

because a lightning rod,

Robert:

what does it do?

Robert:

It attracts the electricity

Robert:

so that rather than

Robert:

hitting the house,

Robert:

it will hit the lightning rod

Robert:

and then that's it.

Robert:

It's done right?

Robert:

It doesn't do damage right?

Robert:

So Yeshua, Jesus

Robert:

is like the lightning rod

Robert:

and the strikes of lightning

Robert:

are all of these prophecies

Robert:

and they all find

Robert:

their fullness in

Robert:

the lightning rod

Robert:

in the One person.

Robert:

So when we think about

Robert:

the king, boom, that's Jesus.

Robert:

The descendant of David,

Robert:

boom, that's Jesus.

Robert:

The shepherd, boom, that's Him.

Robert:

The seed of the woman,

Robert:

boom, that's Him.

Robert:

The prophet like Moses,

Robert:

boom, that's Him right?

Robert:

The line of the tribe

Robert:

of Judah, boom

Robert:

that's that's Him.

Robert:

OK and In Ezekiel

Robert:

37 here He's

Robert:

using these multiple words

Robert:

to describe this individual

Robert:

who's there as king over

Robert:

Israel,

Robert:

ushering in His Kingdom.

Robert:

And I'll just keep reading,

Robert:

right?

Robert:

So Ezekiel 37:24, "And

Robert:

they will walk in my ordinances

Robert:

and keep my statutes

Robert:

and observe them.

Robert:

They will live on the land

Robert:

that I gave

Robert:

to Jacob my servant,

Robert:

in which your fathers lived,

Robert:

and they will live on it.

Robert:

They and their sons

Robert:

and their sons, sons

Robert:

forever, and David

Robert:

my servant,

Robert:

will be their Prince

Robert:

forever." Okay,

Robert:

so this is an eternal throne

Robert:

an enternal Kingdom

Robert:

being ushered in

Robert:

fulfillment of prophecy.

Robert:

Verse 26, "I will make

Robert:

a covenant of peace with them.

Robert:

It will be an everlasting

Robert:

covenant with them,

Robert:

and I will place them

Robert:

in, multiply them,

Robert:

and will set my sanctuary

Robert:

in their midst forever.

Robert:

My dwelling place

Robert:

also will be with them,

Robert:

and I will be their God,

Robert:

and they will be my people,

Robert:

and the nations will know

Robert:

that I am the Lord

Robert:

who sanctifies Israel.

Robert:

And when my sanctuary

Robert:

is in their midst forever."

Robert:

So to me, when we take

Robert:

all of these things

Robert:

that we've discussed, that

Robert:

when we take the full picture

Robert:

that's painted of the Messiah

Robert:

in the Tanakh

Robert:

in the Old Testament,

Robert:

and we look for passages

Robert:

of hope, passages

Robert:

where we can turn to

Robert:

to see that yes,

Robert:

this king is coming back

Robert:

and things will be set straight

Robert:

and we will know

Robert:

full, complete, perfect peace

Robert:

at some point in the future

Robert:

and it's coming through

Robert:

Yeshua and again

Robert:

when we take the full picture,

Robert:

we understand that

Robert:

He must suffer first.

Robert:

With that

Robert:

even after the suffering,

Robert:

even after He's at that,

Robert:

that lowest place possible

Robert:

in the grave, right?

Robert:

Even beyond that, one day,

Robert:

just as sure as He

Robert:

rose from the dead

Robert:

and ascended into heaven

Robert:

where He's seated now

Robert:

at the right hand of power,

Robert:

He's coming back to usher in

Robert:

exactly what we just

Robert:

read in Ezekiel 37.

Nicole:

And what's

Nicole:

exciting about that

Nicole:

is that's one covenant

Nicole:

that still has yet

Nicole:

to be fulfilled.

Nicole:

The Covenant of Peace.

Nicole:

Abe:

Nicole:

So Robert, to wrap things up,

Nicole:

I guess we just really have

Nicole:

one final question.

Nicole:

Did Jesus fulfill

Nicole:

the Messianic prophecies?

Robert:

I would say yes.

Robert:

I would say yes.

Robert:

I mean, I'm biased,

Robert:

but

Robert:

He's fulfilled

Robert:

so many prophecies that we find

Robert:

in the Tanakh,

Robert:

in the Old Testament,

Robert:

and we learn

Robert:

about His fulfillment

Robert:

of these prophecies

Robert:

in the New Testament.

Robert:

You know

Robert:

it's all one united message,

Robert:

and He has fulfilled

Robert:

what needed to be

Robert:

fulfilled already.

Robert:

He still will fulfill

Robert:

the things that are pending.

Robert:

Bonus question,

Robert:

in your expertise

Robert:

is there a resource or book

Robert:

that you would suggest

Robert:

to people that could help

Robert:

cover some more of this?

Robert:

I mean, there's tons

Robert:

of Messianic prophecies

Robert:

and we really only

Robert:

talked about three.

Robert:

And you know we are thinking

Robert:

about dedicating

Robert:

a whole Our Hope season

Robert:

to Messianic prophecies.

Robert:

If a listener wanted

Robert:

to dive deeper into this,

Robert:

what would you suggest?

Abe:

Besides scripture.

Robert:

Yeah. Yeah no.

Robert:

I mean this is a

Robert:

very important question too,

Robert:

because there's a

Robert:

ton of resources out there

Robert:

and we need to know like, okay,

Robert:

well, what's good, what's,

Robert:

you know, what's legit

Robert:

,what's credible?

Robert:

And when it comes

Robert:

to understanding

Robert:

Messianic prophecy,

Robert:

what I would recommend

Robert:

right now is a book

Robert:

that was released in 2019.

Robert:

It's called "The Moody

Robert:

Handbook of

Robert:

Messianic Prophecy".

Robert:

The Moody Handbook

Robert:

of Messianic Prophecy.

Robert:

You can get it on Amazon.

Robert:

You can get it on Chosen

Robert:

People website as well.

Robert:

In our store.

Robert:

Just go to

Robert:

chosenpeople.com/store.

Robert:

It is an excellent resource,

Robert:

very thorough, over 1000 pages

Robert:

and if you want to dig deep

Robert:

into some of these prophecies

Robert:

this is the resource for you.

Robert:

You need to get it.

Robert:

You need to have it

Robert:

in your library. I'm sorry.

Robert:

Okay, just do it.

Abe:

That's awesome,

Abe:

well Robert,

Abe:

thank you for joining us.

Abe:

Thank you for breaking down

Abe:

these few out of many

Abe:

Messianic prophecies

Abe:

and trying to tackle

Abe:

a beast of a topic in just,

Abe:

I don't even know

Abe:

how long this was,

Abe:

30 to 40 minutes.

Abe:

We can go on and on and on.

Abe:

I know we really could.

Nicole:

Thanks, Robert.

Robert:

Yeah.

Robert:

Well, thank you again

Robert:

for having me Abe and Nicole.

Robert:

I appreciate you both.

Robert:

God bless you

Robert:

and I'll see you on the radio.

Robert:

“And the Word became flesh,

Robert:

and dwelt among us,

Robert:

and we saw His glory, glory

Robert:

as of the only begotten

Robert:

from the Father, full of grace

Robert:

and truth.” John 1:14

Robert:

It is a historical fact

Robert:

that Jesus of Nazareth

Robert:

walked this Earth

Robert:

two thousand years ago.

Robert:

He was born of a

Robert:

virgin, suffered,

Robert:

and died a criminal’s death.

Robert:

As we have discussed

Robert:

in this episode,

Robert:

these are only a few of the

Robert:

many reasons why we believe

Robert:

Yeshua is the promised Messiah.

Robert:

And just as He came

Robert:

to pay the price for our sins,

Robert:

Yeshua is coming again!

Robert:

This time, He is coming

Robert:

as the great King,

Robert:

who will establish peace

Robert:

on Earth,

Robert:

upholding it with justice

Robert:

and righteousness forevermore.

Robert:

For many Jewish people,

Robert:

it is hard to believe that

Robert:

Jesus could ever

Robert:

bring peace to earth

Robert:

because of the church’s history

Robert:

of persecuting

Robert:

the chosen people.

Robert:

So next week,

Robert:

we will tackle another

Robert:

challenging question

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Neal Surasky.

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This episode was

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produced by Nicole Vacca

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and written and edited

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by Grace Swee.

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This episode was also

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Dr.

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Mitch Glaser and

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Kieran Bautista.

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I’m Abe Vazquez.

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