Every tradition has an official story, and then it has the people who actually treat patients. In this conversation with James Flowers, a historian, anthropologist, and practitioner of East Asian medicine, we ask a simple question: where did the Saam organ pairs come from? The answer, it turns out, is surprising.

That mystery opens onto what James calls the conundrum of singularity and diversity in East Asian medicine. We follow it from the Confucian kings of the Joseon dynasty, who declared prevention the best medicine, through the Japanese occupation and a century of rebellious Korean doctors, all the way to the treatment of Covid.

Along the way, we weigh standards against clinical experience, consider who holds the authority to say what's right, and ask whether Saam medicine is Buddhist or Confucian at heart.

Listen in for a conversation that moves between royal courts and modern clinics, canon and experience, and the lingering question of what medicine is and who gets to decide.