What does it really take to prepare the agri-food sector for the future?

In this episode of The Future Herd, Jesse Hirsh is joined by Ruth Knight, director with the Agriculture Adaptation Council and chair of the Agri-Food 2050 committee, for a wide-ranging conversation on foresight, leadership, and cultural transformation in agriculture.

Rather than treating the future as something to be predicted or controlled, Ruth argues that future readiness is a mindset—one rooted in curiosity, patience, dialogue, and imagination. Together, they explore why resilience emerges from conversation rather than consensus, how play and experimentation can unlock innovation, and why engaging younger generations is essential to the long-term health of the agri-food system.

This episode examines the tension between problem-solving and big-picture thinking, the limits of top-down planning, and the need to shift from systems of control toward systems of emergence. At its core, the conversation asks how leaders can create the conditions for adaptation, learning, and collaboration over the next 25 years.

Topics Covered

1. Why foresight is a practice, not a prediction
2. Curiosity and patience as leadership strengths
3. Dialogue versus debate in sector-wide planning
4. Play, imagination, and safe experimentation
5. Intergenerational leadership and youth engagement
6. From control to emergence in agri-food systems
7. Building cultural capacity for long-term resilience

Guest

Ruth Knight

Director, Agriculture Adaptation Council

Chair, Agri-Food 2050 Committee

Independent Agronomist and Rural Development Consultant

About the Podcast

The Future Herd explores leadership, collaboration, and long-term thinking in agriculture and food systems. Through conversations with sector leaders, policymakers, producers, and innovators, the podcast examines how we adapt together in an era of uncertainty.

Welcome to the Future Herd.

I'm Jesse Hirsch.

Today's episode asks a deceptively simple question, what does it take to build a

sector that's truly ready for the future?

Not a sector that reacts to pressure, but one that cultivates the mindset and

cultural capacity to face uncertainty with confidence, curiosity, and imagination.

My guest is Ruth Knight, a director with the Agricultural Adaptation Council and

Chair of their AgriFood 2050 Committee.

In our conversation, she argues that foresight isn't just a planning tool,

it's a practice of reconnection.

It's the work of shifting how we think, how we listen, and how

we create space for discovery.

It's a move from control to emergence, from rigid problem solving to a more fluid

dance between pragmatism and imagination.

Ruth brings a perspective rooted in community development, rural planning,

agronomy, and lived experience.

She speaks to the power of dialogue, the need for psychological safety,

the role of play and experimentation, and the moral responsibility to

empower younger generations who will inherit a far more challenging

landscape than the one we entered.

If we want a resilient AgriFood system, one capable of adapting,

learning, and thriving in the decades ahead, we need more than strategies.

We need a cultural transformation.

And as Ruth reminds us, that transformation begins with mindsets

shaped by patience, curiosity, empathy, and an openness to the unknown.

Let's get into it.

Well, my name is Ruth Knight and I am a director on the

Agriculture Adaptation Council.

A very diverse, uh, agriculture and AgriFood organization of over

60 members, and as a director, I chair the AgriFood 2050 committee.

In my career, my, I have been an independent agronomist for the last 20

years and I've always been passionate about agriculture and rural communities.

And I'm also find it very important in terms of what is

the future that I'm creating for myself and my communities, and.

My future, our future generations.

What is it about this practice of imagining the future of engaging in

foresight that you think is valuable, both for yourself but also for the sector?

I think in terms of the process, I see it as an opportunity to

have conversations and in that conversation to allow various ideas.

People, exchanging their experiences and their perspectives.

And I think that in itself will bring resiliency to our

society, our to our sector.

And I think it's, it's, um, important, um, that we appreciate that that process

is necessary for us to reconnect.

And and then in the actual.

Stepping into the future.

We discussed earlier that it's, um, it's a room full of leaders that are

primarily really good problem solvers and there may be a biased against

ideation or big picture thinking.

And so it simply comes down to creating the muscle to.

To think about what you want as opposed to those things you don't want.

And to be proactive in terms of this is the future that I would want

to be in as opposed to reacting.

And in that reacting, getting really stuck in also thinking that other

forces beyond myself are in control.

And it, it certainly evokes the concept of we don't know what we don't know, and oh.

The opportunity for discovery in these types of process.

For me, it's, it's discovery of other operations, other farmers

who I can learn from in terms of talking how they manage themselves.

But to your point, it's also ideas and ideas that may be new to people

that prepare them for the future, that empower them for the future.

So they see it as something to be excited about rather than be fearful about how,

how do we make sure there is that balance.

Between the pragmatic and the theoretical, but between the problem

solving and the need to kind of, you know, for lack of a better word,

expand our mind so that we're ready for whatever the future throws at us.

Yeah, I'm not sure if it's a balance or a dance in terms of stepping

into that future in terms of the ideation and creativity and discovery.

I think it's an internal process within ourselves.

And that internal process then reflects in terms of how we

connect to the external world.

That's a significant reconnection in terms of we are of, of everything else.

And so, that it's a dance between the pragmatic and the discovery of, yeah,

we don't know what we don't know.

And collectively we're a lot stronger in terms of addressing that unknown.

Then spiraling down into this is what I know from past, this

is what I'm gonna stick with.

The un getting unstuck into that, um, really makes us vulnerable.

And I think in that vulnerability a lot can be achieved.

Right on.

And I'm very much a believer in the role of vulnerability and innovation,

and certainly in the tech sector, they, they had this phrase, uh, fail

early and fail often as a way of hardening a startup to learn about

their market, to learn about their technology, to learn about their area.

I love the notion of dance, right?

That it is a kind of dance between the pragmatic and the theoretical

and the problem solver and the ideas.

What about the role of play?

And the reason I'm, I'm sort of bringing in the play piece is again, in the tech

sector, there's a lot of play both inside the enterprise and within research and

development where they're playing with technology, they're playing with ideas.

What role can play.

Uh, have, uh, both in the AgriFood sector, but also within this

process of, of imagining futures and preparing for futures.

That's, that is really significant and that's a part that we sort of leave behind

when we l when we, step into adulthood.

And also when we, it, it tends to be when we get more resources,

more, we're more reluctant to sort of play around with them.

We don't wanna lose them.

You know, the demographic of the egg sector is in that that, that stage

of life, I guess, where a lot of that is, gone through tough times and don't

wanna, you know, toss it all away.

But, uh, you know, a safe play is.

And learning in, and learning to stretch ourselves in play.

Of course it activates a different part of our imagination and, uh,

the imagination is so powerful.

There's yes.

Yeah.

And on the one hand I think we're making the argument as to why we need more young

people as part of the process, right?

Because they bring a kind of imagination, a kind of, questioning, perhaps a tr

tried and tested practices that we take for granted that fresh eyes might

have a way of innovating or improving.

But even as we're discussing this, I'm imagining kind of role playing games, you

know, within a foresight exercise where you ask the farmer to play the producer,

you ask the producer to play the role of the farmer, you ask the young person

to play the role of the government.

And again, just to get us thinking about.

Other people's expertise, other people's perspectives, so that we broaden our

sense of the future rather than narrow it.

How do we, and, and here, I'm, I'm being a little bit of a devil's advocate.

How do we keep that play?

How do we keep that kind of abstract element?

Rooted in the problem solving.

That is, is what attracts many minds.

Because I, what I found interesting at the event was that on the one hand,

there are lots of people like you, like me, who think about policy, who think

about culture, who think about the larger basket that all this happens in.

But there are many who just wanna focus on the bottom line, or they wanna focus on,

you know, making things more efficient.

And so it strikes me the challenge is that inclusivity.

H how do you balance it so that all groups are kind of, uh, included in

participating in this larger conversation about Ontario's uh, uh, food future?

Well, I think what we recognized in the, in our process is.

We gain sort of solid ground with our peeps, our usual peeps, and then make

others, others curious and create an invitation for them to come to the table.

And there, there is a learning process in terms of, future thinking

as opposed to problem solving.

And we sort of.

Okay.

So that's what I like.

And when we get, into a safer space, we can have those conversations and

then invitational to new people.

So it becomes, iterative in terms of inviting that diversity and with,

diversity in and of itself will create new perspectives and, but it, it's, you

know, and it, and it's a challenge in terms of, of people getting used to that

outcome, that it's not a one and done.

Like, oh, where are, we're gonna come back to talking about that.

So putting a fresh a, a, you know, a fresh menu, setting the

table a little bit differently.

In the order for people to think that they have been heard, and I think

it's very important that everybody is heard and we don't try to distill it.

Down to, oh, we all gotta get on the same page.

Well, that's really a misnomer in terms of, there are a lot of different ways

to interpret a story and create a story.

Well and it, it does strike me that there's an interesting tension

between the desire for clarity and the desire to get everyone on the same

page because that, those were both recurring themes that I heard a lot.

And again, I, I love your evocation of curiosity.

'cause to me that is central to the success of such an initiative that

it always piques people's curiosity.

That they always feel that they're gonna learn new things or be

exposed to new ideas, even if it is practical and pragmatic.

But there, there, I think it's a real need to maintain the diversity of ideas or, or,

or even the, the respectful disagreement that happens in any community while

still fostering a a, a kind of unity.

And where I think the clarity piece comes in is storytelling, like how we tell the

stories about ourselves and our sector.

'cause that is an easy way to maintain that diversity.

I, I'm curious, what do you see as the story of this process?

Because part of the reason I was really excited to talk to you is

you've kind of had an insight into how this has been playing out.

Uh.

From a real diverse perspective unto yourself.

Like you, you're coming at this as an individual, but you're also coming

at this as someone who, who wants to bridge different constituencies,

who wants to bridge different stakeholders and that's what I'm

hearing in your language, is a desire.

To not alienate people, even though they might be in

disagreement on certain issues.

How do we maintain that balance?

On the one hand we've been talking about the balance between the abstract

and the practical, but how do we maintain the balance between say, the

large, uh, uh, operator and the tiny operator between the large producer

and the myriad of small producers?

'cause that's what excited me is that it really seems like there's

an appetite all around for.

Again, you used the word on the same page, which I'm not sure is possible.

No.

But in the same boat Right?

Or in the same system so that we feel a, a, a sense of commonality as Ontarians.

Yeah.

In the same boat, for sure.

I guess one thing that I pull out from what you said is language

and, and language is the primary way in which we are communicating

with each other and sharing ideas.

And so language is really important in terms of, um, embracing new ways

of expressing ourselves and allowing, allowing that space for people to show up

and express themselves in different ways.

And.

Yeah, it's, I guess where I felt at odd.

So it's like, oh, I'm using a language and people are looking at me and going, okay.

So then they say, well, what's the solution?

And so I was, throwing it out there and, and hearing it echo, but it

not sort of catching on and then.

It just takes time and patience sometimes and and then just say,

well, I don't know what the solution is, but let's have a conversation

and we can, solve this together.

Because my solution to it is maybe not fitting to every situation.

Um, I, you know, my background in rural planning and development, I did a lot

in terms of of of land use planning, but also in community development.

And I've worked as an independent consultant working one-on-one and found

the same thing over and over again in terms of it's really about the mindset

and so how do we influence the mindset?

And I think it.

A more effective with, you know, peer to peers talking to each other

in, in terms of helping people adapt their mindset and also to do

it within some community context.

So there's a, a sort of a communal identity.

And when you say small producer, large producers, yes.

That could be one.

That's just one.

Level of distinguishing differences, but there's so many levels that people

have in commonality and in commonality.

Hopefully we have some part of the future.

And so, what is it?

What is it that we want that to look like?

I have three young.

Children who have been involved in agriculture would like to continue to

be involved in agriculture, and I see a great deal of challenges that I was never

really aware of when I started farming.

And in being engaged in real communities.

And so, really, that's one of my driving, my driving force is my driving passion.

And not to think that it's gonna happen in the next generation.

It's gonna happen in the next 5, 10, 25 years.

And I think your point about the mind frame or, or the attitude is essential.

I think that's exactly it.

You know, I, I often think of it as a kind of open mind versus the closed mind.

That the open mind will be prepared for any future versus the closed mind

will be terrified of all futures.

But you, your, your point about your kids I think is also why I think it is so

important, morally responsible, even that we start getting young people in power.

'cause it is way harder for them.

Like compared to, you know, myself, I know, let alone my parents, uh,

we had it tremendously easier than young people do today to get them

to get on their feet, to get a business, to get a meaningful career.

So I, I think that has to be, if, if we talk about the future, obviously we,

we need to be thinking about those most likely to see it and help them with that.

But you also said something that, that I thought I, I almost want to end with

and, and, and I've been given your.

Really hard, hard, uh, curve balls here.

I this as an interviewer, I really tried to get the most outta my guess.

And, and Ruth, you're, you're excelling par excellence.

But patience I think, is really important.

And, and that was something I thought you really e emphasized.

Well, and I want to tie that back to curiosity.

Because it, it strikes me that if we could, uh, within that larger mind frame

we're trying to cultivate, if we could both nurture curiosity and patience,

that affords a really excellent process of people who are committed, who are

engaged, who are imaginative and, and who are willing to see it for the long haul.

'cause you're right.

It's not a one and done.

And one of the provocations I was trying to make is, you know, every

organization needs to take this process to their membership and make it as

grassroots as possible so that we involve as many people as possible.

So here's the billion dollar question.

How do we frame patients and curiosity?

H how we do, we kind of, uh, nurture the two of them within this emerging,

uh, uh, frame of mind that allows th this process to really thrive and

excel in the way that we think it can.

Oh, nurturing I think it's, it's, um, this process of creating an

invitation for people to have dialogue.

And it's not a, it's not a discussion or debate.

It's a, it's a dialogue.

And it, um.

Is the best way in which we can communicate our ideas.

So, more and more opportunities for those dialogues to take place within, within an

organization with between organizations just, creating that container.

And there are some rules of engagement in terms of patience

and curiosity and empathy and.

Yeah, bringing that as a organizational leadership strength.

So, leadership training in terms of the transformational leadership,

the whose empathetic who, and I think that's in organizations, when

you talk about organizations, I think that's a central part of, um.

Of supporting that type of leadership.

Yeah.

Right on.

Any final thoughts on either the process or where you wanna see it moving forward?

Oh, I'm, I'm, um, I'm excited.

And while, there were a few.

I would say rough spots where I said, you know, people thinking that, one

that, you know, on the same page or, so, those sorts of things, they're so, uh.

They're sort of rhetorical within and our organization and we, and

we just have to say, well, what are our basic assumptions about that?

What does it really mean?

And is that really how we wanna operate?

So I think, uh, when we really question some of those really basic assumptions

in the way that we've been communicating ideas, I, communicating ideas, I

think, um, that's important to end.

I think a lot of that has been sort of handed down in terms of maybe when,

government, uh, folks are trying to create policy in terms of there are

patients in terms of there's really diverse ideas and, you know, a mandate

in terms of how you write it in terms of.

One piece can't really address all that.

So we need a different approach to that as well.

And it, and so I've seen where there's in creating policy.

We really have a, there's a lot of conversations and there's a

lot that gets distilled into that as opposed to a few expert ideas.

And I think that's created policy that is reflective of the civil

society, of all the different members and the diverse ideas.

And, and by conversations they people find differences.

It sounds very optimistic, but, I think it's doable and I think there are other

cultures who have existed like this and who have gone through very big

transformations and barring on their knowledge, and that was an important piece

that I was really quite pleased about, that we had other knowledge keepers who

came to the table and really had some really essential nuggets to share with us.

Those are all different.

Different ideas that I think would be really helpful to bring to the table here.

Well, and, and to your point about other cultures it strikes me that the ultimate

mission is to change our own culture so that it's more resilient, so that it's

more, uh, capable of dealing with the challenges that we face in our future.

And that's no small task, right?

That, that, that is a very sort of gradual patient curious process.

A and I think for me the difference too is the going from a, a system based on

control to a system based on emergence.

Yes.

Where you're just trying to create the right conditions in which the things you

want emerge rather than try to control things to get what you want to emerge.

Yeah.

You know, it takes time.

That takes a lot, it takes a lot more energy.

To control and, and keep things within set boundaries.

Then to emerge and pivot and see where, where challenges

are actually opportunities.

Yes.

That was my conversation with Ruth Knight.

What stays with me is her insistence that the future isn't something we

predict so much as something we practice.

The work begins in mindset, cultivating curiosity instead of fear, patience

instead of urgency, and a willingness to let go of old assumptions, in

favor of something more open, more emergent, and ultimately more resilient.

Ruth reminds us that dialogue is not an accessory to strategy.

It is the strategy when we create the conditions for people to listen, question,

imagine and disagree constructively, we strengthen the entire system and when we

broaden those conversations to include younger generations, small and large

operators, policy voices, and knowledge keepers from different traditions, we

begin to build the cultural capacity needed for the next several decades,

not just the next planning cycle.

If AgriFood 2050 succeeds, it won't be because we found a single roadmap.

It'll be because we invested in a culture that can learn together,

improvise together, and adapt together a culture that moves away

from control and toward emergence.

A culture that understands the future as a shared endeavor.

Thank you for listening.

If you're part of the AgriFood sector or simply care about the

food system we all depend on.

I hope this episode encourages you to bring these conversations into your

own organizations and communities.

The future belongs to those who are willing to imagine it and to

do the slow patient collective work of bringing it into being.

We'll see you next time.