Have you wondered what a Rad Dad Circle discussion is like?  In this episode we will give you a taste of Circle Life. Engage in a heartfelt discussion about the thrills and challenges of fatherhood as Sean, Matthew, and Braden reflect on their own growth that arose from focusing on love.

Together they engage in an honest dialogue about the ups and downs in their relationships and parenting, the nuances of navigating post-divorce life, and the idea that despite the urge to fantasize about alternate situations, embracing the present moment and seeking support can lead to a more fulfilling experience as a dad. Throughout the episode, they highlight the potential pitfalls of 'checking out' during tough times and falling into addiction, as well as the unique benefits of online support groups.

Highlights

• The struggle of balancing attention and presence as a parent
• Navigating the transition from marriage to divorce as an ongoing relationship with children
• The "grass is always greener" syndrome in the context of relationships and family life
• The importance of self-kindness
• The evolution of fatherhood from providing love to fostering skill development
• The unique support and connections made through online interactions within the Rad Dad Circle

To Learn More:

Connect with us at the Rad Dad Collective: https://www.raddadcollective.org/

Sign up for Matthew’s Fatherhood Dojo Newsletter: https://www.fatherhood-dojo.com

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/raddadcollective/

Join our Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/theRadDadCollective

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All right, welcome. I am yeah, really happy to join a couple of fellow rad dads here today as we explore rad dad life, and, and really want to kind of bring in a experience of what it feels like to bring in circle with a lot of our podcasts. And yeah, so you can be a little bit of a fly on the wall and perhaps have some inspiration for you in terms of recognizing that you're not alone in your dad journey. And perhaps might be supportive to you in some way that are as honest as we can be with our failures that that might be a service to you in some way. So here I am joined with Braden Ricketts and Matthew Sloane. Thank you for joining today, guys.

You're welcome. Pleasure.

Pleasure to be here.

So let's kick it off with check in. You know, oftentimes with our rad dad circles, we always begin with a check in general wins and woes of fatherhood. So curious for both of you, you know, check in name, bring in the names of your kids in ages. And what is up for you right now in your journey of fatherhood. What are some wins and some woes? What might you be contesting with? What's going on for you?

Yeah, I'll jump in the snap. I'd say that there's a lot of ups and downs for me in my relationship with my wife. So we have occasions where we're deeply connected. And as if we're seeing each other for the first time again. And then we also have moments where we're very Vickery and judgy. And stressed, often stress coming before that. So that's been challenging, and sometimes beautiful, and the eyes of it. And then with my kids, just barely eking out more patients day to day with transitions, my kids, they're just still figuring out how to get from breakfast to school, and how to get from dinner to bed. And those are those times push me to be present. And at my worst, I become a tyrant. So I'm just doing my best to ease into those and be connected to them as I go. I'm gonna get that.

Awesome. Thank you, Matthew. Thanks. Yeah,

that was cool. so great to hear. Braden. I have a 14 year old named Ethan. I have single parents at him for the past 11 years. That's been a huge time commitment. As far as being present at activities and events, I wanted to be at every sports, I wanted to be at every school event, I wanted to drive him placements. And with the entering of high school, he found schoolwork to really take him away from the extracurriculars. And these last six months have had zero after school, sports or anything going on. And I found myself at a loss of what to do with myself and my time. Instead of picking up a hobby, I picked up a dating app to try and fill some time with meeting new people. It's, it's a whole new world that I'm venturing into. And also he's getting back into sports. He's decided he wants to get back into hockey, he wants to get back into baseball, so gonna have to rebalance all those priorities. I'm excited to see it back on the field. Something about watching your kid put an effort no matter where it's pretty exciting. I mean, without

some thanks, Brynn it's always you know, one of the things that I really appreciate about connecting with other fathers is the rage wrench out right, and you have a teenage and teenager and what's that like and to think that oh, one day my kids are going to be teenagers and all the things that that bring along with it. I'm Shawn Chacon and I have three children that's still very new to me, I'm so used to saying to but now I have three kids, five year old named cadence and three year old name, Ember, and a three month old boy name, rebel. And, yeah, it's been such a big transition to be in a family of three. And I thought kind of that it would be really just the same same old, same old parent train that we're on, and it's more work going from two to three kids. This week in particular, I'd say winds and woes all wrapped into one really was we had a bug a stomach bug in the house. And so one night I was up with my eldest cadence four or five times in the night as she was sick and changing sheets and clothes and all the whole thing. And then the next night I was up With my three year old throughout the night, and then last night, my wife was hit as well. And yeah, it's been, it's been such a trying week. And at the same time, I've been showing up to work every single day, and having big days at work. And I haven't, I've just been so used to not getting a lot of sleep, and just really glad that I'm, I've been a dad for five years now. And the kind of the idea of a full night's sleep. I left that that concept a long time ago. So for some, somehow I've been able to function this week with little to no sleep, and fingers crossed that the bug has not hit me yet. So when in Whoa, all wrapped up into Thank you. Oh, yeah. So just kind of curious, you know, in terms of hearing about more about each of your fatherhood journeys, you know, in terms of what brought you to joining a circle of dads, you know, curious to kind of think about where you might have been beforehand, not like this is, you know, oh, I was such a terrible dad. And then I joined a dad group. And now look at me now, but really just kind of this. You know, just curious about each of your journeys of your fatherhood journey, you know, you know, especially Braden, that's interesting, having a teenage boy now, you know, curious how that experience has been for you, prior to joining the RAD dad group. And currently how it is, how does it bacteremia? Yeah, thanks.

You mean, I don't want to tell you how you saved my life. So having a child, I feel like I was young, I was 24, when, when my son was born. And within my social circle, my next friend to have a kid happened last year. So that's, that's 13 years where I was the only parent within my social circle. That led me to seek a group like red dads out because after years and years, realizing the only parenting or only dads I really had around me, was my father, and going to him for advice was not going to give me a very different perspective than what I grew up with, there was nothing outside of my exposure. So it was really nice to find a group that I could at least see the different perspectives and that there's others that are going through these things. My time as a father, especially as a single father, it was very much a, I came from an approach that as long as I was present, and have unconditional love, everything was going to work out. I didn't come to parenting with a whole lot of structure, or mandates or ideas of how I could make this child success or how I could instill skills and abilities or teach lessons. I really just want it to be present. As as he's gotten older, I'm finding a lot more desire to find ways to engage him in skill development, in practicing or trying new things, so he could develop hobbies and interests. I do have to say that the amount of potential time we had together has developed a very strong emotional intelligence. He's able to socialize. He's very aware, he's self aware. And those things are fantastic. So I think the foundation is there. He would probably benefit from a group, you know, like, why don't have a kid's group like, or, you know, I think a teenage group like this would be fantastic as well.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

To wrap that up, I just want to say I was I felt I was on an island for the first 10 years of being a parent. Joining rad dads a few years ago, really opened my eyes up to how deep these conversations can be with other men. The men in my social circle, we keep things fairly surface level, in our engagements in our interactions. So to come to a place where there's other men that are sharing deep emotions that they have challenges that they're facing and wins celebrating as well is something that I didn't have a lot of exposure to. And it did crack me open. I feel like there's a lot more opportunity around me to be authentic, and really express how I'm feeling and how I'm handling things. Thank you.

Yeah, I was just today. My brother in law this week. He's got a newborn in the house as of a week and a half ago now. And he so he's transitioning into a family of four now it's having tickets. And he's been on maternity leave from work, and so at home, and really just taking it up? Well, and, you know, he's been saying like, Oh, I'm the dad of the week I did this, I did that I'm the dad of the week, I set the trampoline up, I made dinner and all these things. And it's like, yeah, good, go do it. And I was just kind of, you know, chuckling in terms of, you know, as dads where I can just be we the role of a dad, we're just doing what, what, what we need to be doing what we should be doing what's like, you know, in the job description. And you know, how I can often be like, I'm the dad of the year because I do these things. And oftentimes, I won't recognize that my partner is just in the trenches, slugging it out to doing all of these things, not getting any recognition. And, yeah, and not necessarily even asking for it as well. But anyway, yeah, I admire your position, Brandon being the single father. You know, I don't know what that's like, at all, in terms of, you know, carrying both roles at at various points. And, yeah, it's been been awesome to be able to connect with you more over the last couple years. When we do. Yeah. Yeah. Matthew, curious about your journey a little more.

Yeah, I think when I was aware of the opportunity to join the rat, that circle, I was not very connected to anyone, I was in the cave of new fatherhood. Still, my daughter was probably three, and I didn't have a son yet. Or Is that true, I don't even know if it was before or after. Wow. And then my memory went. So I suppose I was in a cave of some kind and recognize that I didn't have much interaction with anyone around the fatherhood topic, besides my wife. And I recognized that that container with my wife was time bound, because we had so many other things, whether it was logistics of household or our own connection, or about child or kids, whichever it was, that I, it just wasn't appropriate to always bring my issues or joys of fatherhood to her. And I also wasn't getting reflection or learning from anyone. So I jumped on the opportunity. And I think one distinction, like I met Nick of life, sort of before and in the beginning, and then since being in a few years with support, before because I was so stressed by new fatherhood and put so much expectation on myself around after a certain way I have to do it, right. I found myself stressed to the point of addiction, and to addictions were clearly happening for me at that time. And that was, I was smoking a lot of pot, like every day, and you know, not in a healthy way. And then also, I was using pornography, pretty often. And I think both of those were just a reach for something to make me feel different. And to get away from the overwhelm of fatherhood. As I was in the group, I could hear the ways that other men related to those topics. And I could feel the container holding me to, I wouldn't say to a standard, but is if the container of the dad circle, both in the groups we would meet in and then texting in between groups, I recognized the potential where I could take a bigger step of some kind for myself, and I would be held, I wouldn't even have to ask for that. I just felt it from the group. So it gave me a kind of confidence in will to go cold turkey on both of those things. At some point, there are different stages. And all I wanted the group for at that stage was to say, Hey, I did this. And energetically in the background. I just felt like, if I slipped, if I kept to it, either way, the group was going to be there for me to help me stick to what was really the healthy path. And yeah, I think the anything to do with my relationship with my wife, like I've had some really deep sharings in the group along the way about, you know, whether it's been our sex like life or lack thereof, or about the degree of animosity between us to have a space where I can share that and just be received. Like, it's, it's therapeutic. But it's not therapy. And I'm so grateful that I have a support system. So I'll begin with that.

Yeah, you know, as it strikes me that, you know, we've never met in person math. Yeah. It's just so strange to think, you know, I know all these intimate things about you that you're speaking to, and have been there. I have been witness to you on this journey, and the things that you're bringing towards the group. And yeah, we've actually not met in person, we don't have like a day to day life. And, and yet still, you know, you've been supported, we've each been supported in various ways, which is so, so interesting, you know, I often kind of think that it needs to be, you know, people that are really deeply embedded in my life, and there's almost just this. That's incredible, that just even the awareness of having a online presence, that we may all support each other in that way. So true. Appreciate, thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I'm curious. Yeah, there's a couple of things in there, that would be fun to, to dive into, you know, in terms of this play, I recognize in terms of numbing out, you know, turning towards addictions, it's something that I recognize for myself, when times are tough that it's easier to do. And yet being a part of the group kind of almost holds me accountable to away. And, yeah, I'm just curious in terms of from both of you, in those times, when you do feel like you are ready to just check out and out. It's like, that's it. I never, I didn't actually sign on the dotted line for this whole family thing. What happened to what did I want to do? And what happened to my life? In those moments of challenge, and really the opportunity to check out is there curious for each of you, what supports you in those moments to turn back in and towards family leaning again?

Well, I can say, from my experience of switching to single parenting, from co parenting, is I had to schedule checkout. On a weekly basis, I used to joke that divorce was the best thing to ever happen to my parenting. Because I could be full on full attention, Mom and Dad for seven days, because I knew at the end of those seven days, I'm packing up his bag, and I'm sending him two months. And I can sit in my own field for seven days do what I want to do, with no responsibilities. So certainly made it easy for me to schedule a plant at checkout, and probably take it to some extremes.

Yeah, you know, sorry.

I was just gonna say you asked about how I would lead back into family, that boy. And for me, it became really important that on the weeks that he was at Mom's and not at my house, I would still attend any extracurricular activities. So those baseball practices, those soccer practices, to me, that was still engagement. And, as Matthew Luke to stay sober, to be at those events, I wasn't at the bar, I wasn't smoking pot, I was sober and around my son and his mom being there. That kept me in line, you know, it's easier to just go sit at a bar for the night. Forget about everything.

I was gonna share this not not proud of it, because I've always said it as a joke to my my partner. But there's a there's a part of me that is envious of people with that setup, you know, the week on week off, and I've kind of Wouldn't that be awesome, honey, you know, like, where just take a week off, like, imagine we could stay together and we just don't have the kids for a week, you know, then we could just do the kid thing for a week. And then we have packed their bags up and sent them on their way for a week. And you know what I was saying, mate, imagine that, you know, my friends that are in a similar circumstance where they are split, and they do the week on week off. Or I know that I'm handing off my kids to somebody who incredibly adores them and cares for them and their well being and they're going to be well cared for. And that then I can then do my, what do I want to do this week, whatever it might be.

I had a similar fantasy that I shared with my wife. And the context was fantasy. We were so close to the point of like, in the darkest moment for us, and this was a little while back. Thankfully, we're thrilled. But at one of those darker moments, we were like, well, what would that look like? What if we did split and we had to share the kids. And as this weird silver lining came out in that conversation was like, well, we've heard that kind of works for people like they kind of get time off with the kids and time with the kids. And I don't know at all what the reality of that is like, but it's interesting that that was a kind of supportive element. So we thought if one day we happen to not be together, and again, Britain you know better than we do about what it really looks like.

There is like almost this element of the the grass is always greener, right where it's kind of like oh Here I am, in this moment things are hard. And what might make it different? And I used to say this early on in our relationship, where I would say, well, one thing that I'm so grateful that I am not doing is questioning whether it'd be easier if it wasn't with this partner that is, and recognizing that as soon as that infiltrates in, then questions start to, to arise, right? It's just hard, right? Kids this challenging, there's lots of things that that are, that come up. And it's easy to start fantasizing of like, well, what if if only we lived closer to family, if only we live someplace warm all the time, if only, etc. And I realized that the moment that I start turning that towards I learned started looking across the table at my wife, and I go, maybe it's you. Maybe you're the problem, maybe that's the thing that's going on? Yeah, I was used to say how grateful I was that I wasn't doing that. And I just recognize, in the last several months, actually, that I'm starting to do that a little more. And I haven't really didn't really recognize that just until this moment, that I'm starting to turn more towards at her and looking for fault. And, you know, like, if you could just clean up after yourself, if you could just put the dishes into the dishwasher, the milk back in the fridge, if you could just be a little more competent is basically at the end of the day, what it all sums up to, which is just incredibly unkind, not fair, and really not how I want to be in partnership with somebody.

I feel like that's, for me very related to the times that I would want to check out through addiction. So if I'm, that might be the first thing happening that I might be, I would call it for me like a victim or a poor me conversation with myself and blaming someone else. And like, then just not liking that, and not wanting to be with that. Even if it wasn't really true. Okay, if I wanted to blame my wife, and I'm sitting in that, and there's just comfort, well, I can always go do this thing instead. Yeah, just as an example, I like to grass is always greener, as a raise, because it's, it comes up all the time, like, oh, yeah, what if we didn't have two kids? We just had one, or what if I was with a different person. And I had been married before without kids. So I know, a degree of reality around that, like, no, that's still me, I'm here. And this is a context. It's not a person, it's a context.

It's really dangerous. When you're you're feeling that's that lack of fulfillment or joy. And you start pointing out at the people central airport, I can share that as if you do ever transition from marriage to a divorce, or it's not the end of that relationship, it's a transition of that relationship. So that person is still there. And you're still going to be working with them around many of the challenges you're currently faced with. The communication does become even more challenging, because you're not sharing space, you have to deliberately reach out to connect, to have the conversations to make the schedules to have the plants. So it just transitions that any challenges you're facing with them into a new context, but they still remain. And so the grass is not quite greener over there.

Yeah, that's good to know. Right? And that's good. Okay, I'll stick around for Yeah. That's also like, Okay, well, I'll find a new fantasy then. Right. So this must be something else. I need someone to blame, right?

Yeah, just wait till they're teenagers. That's when they're there. They need less of your time. I was saying the I was gonna say the back and forth, like you said, the checkout time, used to be when he would go to moms. But now that he's a teenager, even when he's with me, I sometimes forget he's here because he's holed up in his room. Or, you know, he's got his phone. And so he's busy and active and engaged in something else. And I can leave him home alone. So my weeks with him now are starting to look a lot like the weeks when I don't have him. There is a huge difference, you know, don't want to go down the technology thing, but we did introduce it fairly early on, because he was between two houses. We did give him a device where he could contact the person at the other house so that we could stay engaged with him share messages, still be a part of his life. I think that may have given him a really early look at how addicting that technology can be. And we're now faced with the challenges of getting his attention and talk back from from the I was.

And I think about checking out, you know, in terms of things that I do, to numb out to, to fantasize and how it can be different. And I, for me, it really comes back to remembering, you know, trying to remember that this won't last that they're not going to be young forever. And you know, in hearing your story, Braden talking about a 14 year old boy to kind of think, wow, okay, my five year olds going to be 15 at some point. And I'll be looking back on this time. And I don't want to think, Oh, I wish I had shut up differently. And so as much as that's one of the things, why I love being in community with other fathers of different ages, because it does remind me it helps reorient me to my current place where I'm at, in my arc of fatherhood. I'm just this morning, in bed with the kids. And, you know, there being kids, you know, a three year old and a five year old and just kind of joking, plain and nothing spectacular. And I just thought I just had this moment of, Wow, I can imagine how precious this moment would be when they're grown up and moved out. And just to think of, if I could just be a fly on the wall, to hear my three year old talk, you know, and not quite be able to formulate her words yet. And everything she says is cute, she does not even trying, just adorable to have that moment, what I would what I would give to have that. And here I am, you know and wanting to subvert that so easily by Well, we gotta get on with our day, what's the next thing and just gotta lean them along? Through their life? Right? To get where, right to get to when they're 18. And then I get my freedom. It's just, you know, there's, there's really, there's no finish line? No. I mean, imagine that the finish line? Like what does the finish line of fatherhood look like? That's me on my deathbed saying goodbye to my kids. So, yeah, you know, so I just really do appreciate these opportunities to be able to reflect and think, wow, you know, where am I at and to be reminded, because when we are in the trenches, and I'm speaking with a we hear, I understand, but, you know, recognizing, you know, when I am in the trenches, and it's very challenging, and we're thinking about these fantasies, and there's all these ways of numbing out. It can be so easy to forget, you know, the gift that being a father is for me, and I'm having conversations like these with you men just remind me of why this is important. And, and it allows me to then to go home and show up a little differently.

The other half an hour I heard it, Matt is he's not trying to get anywhere, and just being where you are, and being with them. Those are, those are the moments that you're just going to cherish forever.

Yeah, I take from that. And for myself, just the ability to be kinder to myself in the midst of self lashing or acting out in a bad way with my kids or with myself. That compassion has come a big way as a result of being in a circle. And I think it's because I look across the people all the time in our group, and I'd say it's okay. Like in my heart, I'm saying that to them, when they share their own challenges. And I know that that comes back to me too. So I've heard that voice in my head a little more in my daily life, which is really supportive.

Awesome. But just thinking I'd love to just finish up with this quote that I was just always comes pop pop of my top of mind to me when I think of myself being lost in the cups, and the dishes of fatherhood. And it's from reading your rake. You know, sometimes a man stands up during supper, and walks out doors and keeps on walking because of a church that stands somewhere in the East. And his children say blessings on him as if he were dead. And another man who remains inside his own house stays there, inside the dishes and in the glasses so that his children have to go far out into the world toward that same church, which he forgot. Sometimes I'm sometimes I'm the man stuck in the dishes, and sometimes I on demand out half one foot out the door. And yeah, if you're listening today, wherever you are, if you're on your way to that church and he's done your own adventure or you are lost in the dishes and the glasses, we appreciate you tuning in, and perhaps for this momentary and time that you recognize that you weren't alone. There's many others of us. Lost in the dishes here.