Many of my listeners have decided to leave their job in corporate America and go out on their own. In this episode of the Hourly to Exit Podcast, I interview Betsy Jordyn, a brilliant consultant who works with people moving from employee to entrepreneur, and she had some great advice to offer during our conversation.

Some of the highlights of the episode include:

• How to rethink money by going from drawing a salary to generating income and profit
• Investments vs. Expenses: a perspective that is critical to your business and to selling to your clients
• The role of a coach or consultant calling for a purpose-driven business model
• BONUS: We covered some great tips for getting past impostor syndrome

Betsy tells us that she isn’t planning her exit strategy, and we talked about how the same process she is using to scale her business can help when she gets to the point where she wants to sell the business. This is the heart of what I do at Think Beyond IP. If you are considering scaling or selling your business, contact me for a consultation about the steps you should take.

More About Our Guest:

Betsy Jordyn is a Brand Positioning Strategist that helps consulting and coaching business owners clarify their brand positioning and messaging, create a website presence that positions them as sought-after experts, land clients with ease and integrity, and take their place as thought leaders and influencers in their niche. Her mission is to help consultants and coaches monetize their best-at-strengths and authentic passions to make a bigger difference in the world.

Connect with Betsy Jordyn:

• Website
• LinkedIn
• Youtube

Connect with Erin and find the resources mentioned in this episode at hourlytoexit.com/podcast.

Erin's LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/in/erinaustin/

Think Beyond IP YouTube Page: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVztXnDYnZ83oIb-EGX9IGA/videos

Music credit: Yes She Can by Tiny Music

A Team Dklutr production

Hello., ladies.

Welcome to the Hourly to

Exit podcast.

I am so excited for today's guest,

Betsy Jordan.

Erin.

I'm so happy to have you here today.

Lots for us to talk about.

But before we get started, can you

introduce yourself

to the audience?

Sure.

My name is Betsy Jordan.

I am a business mentor and a

brand messaging and positioning

strategist for remarkable

consultants and coaches and their

unique strengths and experiences

and passions.

Very nice, very nice.

So who is your typical client

and how did you upon them?

Did they choose you or did you

choose them?

So my ideal client is usually somebody

who's either like one or two phases

in their career.

They're either at a corporate

kind of job and they're like, okay,

I've had enough.

I've hit the top.

I wonder What is this for?

I wanna have control over my career in

my life, and I have more significance,

and I'm not sure how to navigate that.

So that's one set of my clients and

they know they wanna start a business

that relates to their knowledge and

their expertise.

Like a consultant, coach, speaker

kind of person.

Or it's somebody who they built.

The wrong business and it's not the

business that they are loving and it's

not the right one.

I work with them and we use basically

the same processes for both of them.

I think they find me because of my

content, which is how you and

I got connected.

Very,

very nice.

So I've heard, you reminded me of

this term boomer preneur, but maybe

that doesn't apply.

Like we're people who had this

whole career and now they wanna Do

this consulting or things like that?

Is that a term that, am I the only one

who uses that term?

I don't know if I would use that one.

I use more like corporate refugee

or somebody who's like a mid-career

professional.

Like there's other people like Marie

Folio who's out there and I think

there's a huge difference between

somebody who's an entrepreneur

and that's their first career.

Mm-hmm.

Versus what it takes for somebody

who's mid-career, who's got, a certain

amount of perk status in their

job, in their.

Corner office, their status.

Everybody's expecting so much

from them and for them to leave that

kind of golden handcuff kind of

situation mm-hmm.

Into starting a business

is completely different.

And those are the people I really love

serving the most.

that is a shocker.

As well as just the way are staffed

has changed.

Like when I started my career,

everyone had.

What was then as secretary, but then

became an assistant.

And then I remember, this is maybe 10

years ago, I was working with a

client and I'm like, well, you know, just

have your assistant send it to me.

He's like, and this was the c e o And

he is like, I don't have an assistant.

Like, cause everyone just, you know,

kind of, and they just kind of do

things differently, you know?

Mm-hmm.

And, so to stop having that, support

and becoming an entrepreneur, that's

gotta be quite the shock to the system.

Well, that will actually feed

into part of what we're gonna

talk about today.

I mean, there's many things that we

could talk about, but that's corporate

to entrepreneur transition.

And in particular in the consulting

space where we're experts, we're using

our brains, we're gonna talk about

profitability, I'll let you talk about

what the differences are, but really

about profitability.

Because when we're in corporate and

we think about, you know, okay, you have

revenue, and then you got all these

overhead pieces.

rent and payroll and office supplies

and vendors and maybe when we are

solopreneurs, we.

Don't have any of those things.

So we think it's all profit, you know?

and we're not really thinking about

the big picture of making sure what

we're doing really is profitable.

Does it really make sense for us

to do this versus going back to the

corporate job.

And so I'd love for you to start big

picture about, what profit is versus

things like income and revenue and

how that applies the problems that

you see among your, clients

kind of wrapping their heads around

these things.

one of the biggest things I think

when people are leaving a corporate

job and starting a or any sort of

job and starting a business is

understanding that your relationship to

money has changed.

So when you're in a job, you're in a

compensation model.

what that means is I do work.

And then I get paid for, I don't

even have to get paid for it.

I get paid.

And I get compensated for

the work that I do.

And so it's a compensation model.

And I think a lot of times when

people leave that compensation model

and they go into a business, they don't

make that shift of saying, "Wait a

minute, I have to create a business."

And business is different.

So business is about, I invest

money first and then I get a return.

And so that's like the first big shift

like, any one of my clients were

advising their clients or going

to a company, they would say,

"Well, you have to spend money

to make money."

Mm-hmm.

But when they leave and they start their

own business, they think, well, I don't

need to spend money.

I could just go out there and

find clients.

And I'm like, well, if you're gonna

just go out there and find clients,

you're actually recreating your job.

In a business, and you're gonna wind

up in that trading time for money

trap because that's what you know.

Mm-hmm.

And that's what other people are.

So we think, oh, okay, well I'm

gonna go look for other busier

consultants and take their carryover

work, or I'm gonna sign up for this

coaching form and they're gonna bring

clients to me.

you're still in a compensation model,

so there's no profit potential in a

compensation model.

Because you don't have a business, you

have to think about money completely

different when you are starting

a business.

That's why it's important that you

invest properly in a really

great website.

You get clear in your messaging,

you figure out who you're going after,

and then you figure out like what are

different ways that you're going to

provide products and services that

are scalable?

And so that first mindset is you

have to go first.

And it's interesting with, expert

knowledge workers as I always use,

the example of the hotdog cart.

Because I did research one time

around how much does it cost to

set up a cop dog cart, and it was

like something like $50,000 you have

to invest to buy a hotdog cart, get

it up and running, find your corner

and all of that.

People would get that like, I have

to spend money on my hotdog cart.

I have to spend money on hotdogs.

I have to spend money on

condiments in order to get sales.

But when you're dealing with

knowledge, it's like, well, I

don't need to do that because I've

been doing this for a long time.

So it's the mindset.

Is the first thing before we could

even talk about the difference between

profitability, trading, time for

money, and all that kind of stuff.

Thank you

for that.

Yes.

Well, that's the danger of me

trying to set up something without

being the expert.

So thank you for that.

That is so important.

I, have been a victim of exactly

what you talked about and, some

lawyers never leave that.

Money, mindset.

but it is something that I see again

and again on the one hand, the ability

to go straight from our corporate

job to quickly, creating income, so

we can keep paying the mortgage and

things is one of the benefits of

it, but also one of the traps of it,

because you can get stuck there, right?

you can't scale.

Mm-hmm.

And it's not sustainable.

Mm-hmm.

when you're in a job and you're going the

job search process, you only have to

find one job and you're kind of done.

Mm-hmm.

You know, nobody wants to be

perennially out of work constantly

on that hustle.

looking for the next gig and the next gig

and the next gig.

That's exhausting.

Mm-hmm.

And at some point, some of it's gonna

say, well, forget it, I'm just gonna

go leave and get a corporate job

Because it is a lot easier.

And the other thing that you do when you

recreate that kind of role, like, I

hate subcontracting.

It's like, it makes me crazy because

if you give control over how you set

up work to somebody else, like you

really don't have a business and you're

not even really being a strategic

partner or whoever you're helping.

Mm-hmm.

you do all of this where you're

actually making less money.

It may feel like you're making

more money, but you're not, or

you think you have more freedom.

You're working the same amount

of hours without any colleagues.

really that are your colleagues.

Mm-hmm.

without any career opportunities.

and without all of the other stuff.

So it's like, it's the worst

of all worlds.

Yeah.

From my perspective.

Yeah.

Other people might like it.

If you like it, cool.

Like, I don't judge you, it's awesome.

But from my standpoint, I

didn't leave my corporate job.

I was a senior leader at Walt

Disney World.

I had a great career.

I had many opportunities I

could take in my career anywhere

If I wanted that, I would've

stayed there.

But instead I wanted to have control

and freedom and all those other things.

Yeah, there

is that illusion that will get

control and freedom from going out on

our own, right.

But if we really think about, if we

don't have some of the things you're

gonna talk about in place, that we just

have created a job without benefits and

without add upside.

So, all right.

let's get to how you help clients make

that mindset shift.

well, the first things first is we

really talk about like, what kind of

business you really wanna start, and get

clear that you're starting a business,

you to me, the way I help my clients

is it's more of an action learning

kind of thing.

It's not like I just sit there and

say, all right, well your mindset's

gonna shift.

It's like, your mindset's gonna

shift as we do certain things.

Mm-hmm.

as we clarify who your ideal

client is.

that's a starting point because then

you're gonna get clear of like,

oh, okay, I have a business that's

supporting somebody specific rather than

here's my expertise.

Like, that's where the flip is, when

you're looking for a job like the

spotlight, it is on you and all of your

expertise when you build a business,

the spotlight's on your ideal client,

for you when you were making this

shift is you are a corporate person

you had all this legal IP advice,

but you decided I wanna help women

experts, and there's a bigger why.

So you get really clear on that

and that starts creating that shift,

And then I work with my clients

through like, no, how they're gonna

stand out in the marketplace and

then we work on their website.

When you have your website, that

helps you start thinking about

like, okay, I have to really work on.

marketing system.

And I have to start thinking about

bigger picture, like what's my online

platform that's just like a brochure

kind of website.

So the mindset changes, like I'm

not a believer of mindset changing.

I just sit there in isolation.

My mindset changes, and then I could

do actions.

I believe that as you do actions with

intentionality, here's my mindset

gap, like if I have a money issue, we're

gonna have an actual tangible thing.

Like, okay, let's talk about

your website.

and how do you wanna set it up

and what's the money you're gonna

leave on the table?

And we work on it from that

standpoint.

there's like the action learning

kind of things.

And then there's advice I might

give along the way.

Like number one, there's many ways

that you could set up your business,

but I think you need to have business

money separate and personal money, a

wall between the two so that you

start thinking about the profitability

of your business and thinking about

like, I'm gonna get a salary out of it.

and that's gonna go over here, but

sometimes people kinda like lump

it all together.

Yes.

Like I have, have a client who sent

me a, a spreadsheet from a different

form that she was working on,

on how to figure out how much to

charge different than weight that

I would set it up.

Mm-hmm.

And they included like, here's all my

personal expenses and here's all

my other things and this is how

much money I have to make.

I'm like, no, your personal expenses

are over there.

you have to put a wall, like

there's a wall between the two.

Mm-hmm.

So that you can look at your business

profitability separately from

here's my income.

Well, let's stick into that cuz I

do think people get really hung

up on that.

And, first decade of my business,

freelancing everything that

I collected from my clients was

errands and that's how I paid the

mortgage and sent the kid to school

and that was it.

And there wasn't, This business in

the middle with me getting payroll.

tell us about how do you work with your

clients to, when you have someone like

an Erin who just has their money come in

and is not thinking about whether or

not it's profitable, whether or not

actually have a profitable business,

do my offerings make sense?

Is the way on building make sense?

would I be better off just going

back in house?

what are the steps to, helping them

think through

that?

First off, I would never suggest if

somebody really feels like next

step in their big calling is to be

a business owner.

Mm-hmm.

I would never say you need to burn

those bridges.

the only way that you're gonna be

successful over the long term is

to be committed to being successful.

Well over the long term.

Mm-hmm.

And you're never gonna figure it out

right at the gate.

So the first thing I would say to

you is like, of course you approach

it that way, no harm, no foul.

the secret to your long term success

is like you try some things out and you

kind of pivot and you go, it's not a

problem, if you're, depending on how

you set things up.

To, if you wanna have it mixed, like

some people like to have it mixed and

that is a way to do it, I believe,

in the firewall.

But the key would be is like I would

be asking you how are you investing

in your business and what kind of return

are you looking at?

And there's other ways that you would

price your services.

Like if you're not making enough money,

From your services, like, well, we

need to look at your products

and services and how you're

framing ' em up.

are you setting up?

a lot of coaches do this is they set

up their business in this hourly

type of thing.

where it's like, okay, well I have

my one hour package, that's a couple

hundred dollars.

I have my eight package, one where

it breaks it down $150 a coaching

session, and that kind of thing.

Like, well, you're never gonna

scale that one.

Right.

And that's not interesting.

I would probably say, all right,

Aaron, Let's talk about your ideal

client and let's talk about what

the problem that you're solving.

Let's talk about who they're turning

to, to solve those problems and where

the gaps are.

And let's frame up a very interesting

signature program.

Mm-hmm.

That would have a variety of different

elements that would be of more value.

So it's like, we wanna look at it

from that angle and we wanna look at

like, well, what are your profit goals?

So if you wanna make, let's say,

a hundred thousand dollars a year

and you think your average price per

client is X and it's like, okay,

so I need to create a $5,000 program.

It's like, well, what would we

need to include to make this a

$5,000 program?

It could include X number of

coaching sessions.

It can include a membership forum.

It could include an online, Course

it can include on-call access,

which by the way is high value that

people undervalue.

Mm-hmm.

And people don't do this “on-call

trusted advisor” because they're

worried that people are gonna take

advantage of you

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

But it's high value.

Like I could call you when I need

to, maybe you include office

hours or maybe you include live

retreats, and all of that is $5,000.

So, for example, I worked with a

girl named Rachel.

She's a dating coach.

She was initially starting off with

like, I'm gonna kind of do this, and

it's like, no, let's create your program.

and her program includes an upfront

assessment, and a certain kickoff

in-depth coaching session around

X, Y, and Z.

Then she has X number of

coaching calls.

Then she has the dating profile

review included in the program, and

then of course, adding in those

special bonuses.

And it's all about how you frame

it, and that's a scalable offer.

That's interesting.

Now people are gonna be like, oh,

okay, I'm willing to pay more because

of the return.

Okay.

Got it.

And so when you use the term

investments, like what does that

mean specifically?

I mean, in coaching and, other types

of human resources.

Like what,

what does that mean?

Investment.

I think everything that you do for

your business, you need to think about

it as so, so you could look at the

profit equation and say there's revenue

minus expenses equals profit.

Mm-hmm.

But when I think when you're a

business owner, there's some

things that are just like expenses

you might say.

It's like for example, I

use Cajabi as my platform.

And I could look at it as a straight

cost, or I think about like, well,

what does Cajabi offer that allows

me to scale?

So Cajabi is like a all-in-one

kind of platform.

So I get my website, I have my email

marketing, I have my landing pages,

I have my courses, and all of this is

in one place, So if I'm spending like

150 bucks a month on Cajabi, I'm spending

less if I were gonna do all of those

things separately.

But I'm also spending less time

because everything's all in one place.

But then I have all my tools that

are there, if I can master, like getting

into Cajabi allowed me to go from just

mentoring people to creating websites.

Mm-hmm.

And to working on pipelines and

helping people with courses because

I learned how to do this myself.

So every time I get a bill from

Kajabi, every time I see it, every

month, I feel happy.

Like, yes.

because I know I'm investing.

Mm-hmm.

Or you might invest in a virtual

assistant, you so, you think

about the time you might spend.

So here's an example with a

virtual assistant.

So I wound up, signing up

for, Working with different

organizations and if you think about

like how much they might charge so you

can get some VAs from other parts

of the world for like $9 an hour,

I don't know what the US prices are.

Mm-hmm.

so just do the math let's say you're

gonna work on a P D F, like in Canva or

something, it might take you 10 hours,

but if you think about it from your

salary standpoint and how much you're

worth per hour, this could be like

a $10,000 P D F.

if you have a va, it's like way less.

Mm-hmm.

So When you're a business owner,

you have to think about money

differently and your relationship with

money is different and you have to

spend the money first in order to

get the return.

Got it.

Everything that you do, it's so

if you're thinking like, oh my gosh,

I don't have a lot of money.

Like when I first started my business,

I was going through a horrible divorce.

I lost all my money, all of it.

I had $200 in the bank and my

grandmother had passed not that

long ago, not long be around that same

time, and she left me, I don't remember

exactly how much, but it was like,

It was enough to cover my initial

business expenses.

Mm-hmm.

I could have taken that money and

lived for like six months, you know,

and I could have lived off of that,

or I took that money and I paid for

mentoring so I could learn the skills I

needed to learn as a business owner.

Mm-hmm.

I invested in a website and you'd

dep appreciate this, and I invested in

content creation from the get go.

Mm-hmm.

So I invested in.

getting articles, and I invested

in learning how to create videos.

And from that standpoint, I

grew my business at that point,

literally from zero.

I mean, I guess you could say 200

s, not zero, but let's just say zero

to 300,000 in the first 18 months.

Mm-hmm.

And it's like my mindset changed,

like when I was standing in front of

my first opportunity I had right after I

launched my website.

I had a client who really wanted

to work with me.

Like they handed me a proposal and say,

meter beat this, this job's yours.

And it's like, you know what?

I, I saw myself differently.

I took a step back and I said, again,

I was like really in the hole, and

I was a single parent at the time.

Mm-hmm.

I looked at their proposal, I'm

like, Nope, this is not what's in

the best interest of the client.

I gave a different proposal.

It I had to think like five times

more than what the competitor did.

And the clients were freaking out.

They're like, oh my gosh, we're gonna

have to break the, to work with Betsy.

And I'm like, mm-hmm.

And something came over me and

this is a phrase I use all the time.

Like, " No, that other person, that

is an expense.

It's an expense that you're gonna have.

I'm not an expense to be managed.

I'm an investment that will deliver

a return."

And they were like, "Whoa."

Then they signed immediately

on the spot.

So it's about the mindset around like,

I'm an investment.

And so I have to invest in myself.

I'm the product, I'm the product,

I'm the service.

I have to invest in myself and then

I'll get a return.

That's the key is, and then

you're gonna think about things

more creatively.

I don't know if that answered your

question or not.

Well, it did that,

more than that.

It was great.

I mean, that is so interesting

to me cuz I like to, talk about

things like, law.

You know, investing in lawyers and

they're thought of as expenses.

Like, okay, this is something

I have to do.

I don't wanna do it, but I gotta do it.

And it's risk avoidance and

versus like, if you use lawyers

strategically, to help you, put pieces

in place that build that foundation so

that you can grow.

it is an investment, you know, investing

in contracts, investing

in content.

and I have noticed in.

Like proposals, like if you see

something online and they'll have their

prices and they'll say investment

as opposed to price or cost.

And I like that because it really is

just thinking about it from, okay, this

is something that will have a return

on investment if I do my job right.

You do your job right, it's a

return on this and will help your

business grow.

I like that you used.

Just the term investment instead

of expenses.

Things that we could think of that

way, but I think it's the wrong way

to think about it.

I really like that explanation.

That was fantastic.

Thank you.

Well, speaking of, attorneys though,

like you're an unusual attorney,

who's also a coach and so you, are a

strategic partner.

Mm-hmm.

the problem that you might have is

that your field on the whole is very

much by the hour and very much commodity.

Mm-hmm.

and it's like you get into the legal

situation and they don't have like a

big picture plan.

Mm-hmm.

So the same things that I would

recommend to my clients who are

coaches is like, you need to have some

sort of defined.

Value that you're gonna create for a

client at the end.

Like, so if I were gonna work with

you in, maybe in a previous iteration,

it's like, "Okay, I wanna protect

my intellectual property."

it might be you would charge me

$500 an hour, boom, boom, boom.

Now my money's up in three hours.

Right?

Or you would say, "I'm gonna help

you create a body of work that is

monetizable.", And let's say your

package is $10,000, but it's capped.

Mm-hmm.

And it's a value, and I'm gonna

create a different kind of outcome.

Now, I could think about it

differently, but most lawyers don't

operate like as strategic partners.

Yeah.

They set themselves up because the legal

field, that's why burnout is so bad.

Mm-hmm.

it's like by the hour, by the hour,

and the client gets to the end.

Like, I never.

Ever, ever charged by the hour?

Yeah.

Maybe very rarely for like a one-off,

like, If somebody needs like a one-off

kind of thing, it's like, okay, before

I sign up for this whole big program

with you, like, can I just do a

90 minute session?

It's like, okay, fine.

Yes.

Yeah, I'll do that.

But never charged by the hour.

Ever.

Yeah.

Ever.

Because if you are by the hour, first

off, I haven't been an hourly worker

since I was, 21.

Like, when was the last time I was

an hourly worker?

Right.

You know, like, I'm not gonna go

back and be an hourly worker ever.

But when you're talking about, your

mindset, it's your mindset influences

the clients.

Like, I'm an investment and

therefore I'm gonna encourage you to

be an investment.

the thing that gives clients

happiness is like, oh, you're promising

a, transformation.

that's different than I'm going

to do X, Y, and Z and methodology.

Methodology.

Mm-hmm.

So you help people think about the way

that they're pricing they're offering

in terms of outcome versus inputs.

I help them think about the value

that they create so they can own their

worth and they can price properly.

Mm-hmm.

Based on the transformation that

they're gonna create for the clients.

That's meaningful to the clients.

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Yeah.

And then they invest themselves

in themselves properly in order

to deliver on that.

I have a good story about the hourly.

So, I worked with, IP-based

businesses for many, many years.

And, one of my big clients is

in the market research phase.

and then someone had gone over to

another market research place and

they're like, "Oh, I've worked with

other lawyers, I have to explain

everything to them, takes them forever

to figure it out.

I know that you know exactly how

to do this well."

I did.

And it took me no time to, like, I.

I can do this in my sleep.

I can fix your problem completely

in an hour.

And I was charging by the hour, you

and I fixed the problem immediately

because I'd been doing what they

needed for 10 years so my reward for

that was, getting almost nothing.

So

So if you were a more junior person,

it would take you in 20 hours

and you would've made more money.

Right.

So you're penalizing yourself rather

than if you can get it done an hour.

Right.

I just did an interview with

an executive on my podcast.

I knew he was saying like a lot

of consultants are looking at

like, here's the economic value.

And he is like, you gotta understand

the return on time.

so in some ways is like, well I can

take five hours to do this and it's

gonna cost a less price, I'll get it

done in an hour.

And you could charge the premium

for the speed,

right?

Right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

No, it, it is a tough one.

And, you work with men and women, but

for many women have trouble feeling like

they're overcharging for things like

this, like, I know that I could get

that done, like, and be done by, time for

lunch and how can I charge for that?

but at the end of the day, what is

the value to the client is really

what matters there.

So,

I think men and women both

struggle with, like, especially if

you're a knowledge worker, and you're

getting paid for your expertise,

it's very hard to put a price tag on.

Mm-hmm.

I see.

Men and women equally struggle

with that whole thing.

But I think what women struggle

with more is if somebody doesn't

have money, then they feel bad for

'em, where men don't care that much.

women are like, oh, okay, well I,

guess I'll discount it because I like

you and I wanna help you, or Yeah.

Let me do this for you for free.

Like, we're much more codependent

mm-hmm.

From that standpoint.

And men are really good at like, this

is part of my paid program, and men

are more aggressive in asking for the

sale, more than, than women could be.

Mm-hmm.

Oh, interesting.

do you, do you group coaching or are

they all individual?

I

just launched a group coaching

experience.

So I take people like through that

whole transition, from like, I have an

idea, I wanna launch it, I wanna move

into this thought leadership space.

So I do, there's some stuff that just

requires one-on-one kind of stuff.

So I do a lot of v i P days, like

brand messaging kind of stuff, wording,

copywriting and all that kind of stuff.

that's more like one-on-one.

Mm-hmm.

And it's not really something that

lends itself to a group, but I've

been very passionate about bringing

groups together.

Mm-hmm.

Because of the power of being with

other people who are in the same

place that you are, the learning,

and it's been really powerful.

So I started this Purpose to

Profits Academy, is what I call it.

And the promise here is like, we're

gonna get into really actionable

kind of training to help you develop

all the skillsets that you're gonna

need over time.

Because as.

a consulting, a coaching business

owner, you have to learn the skills.

You didn't learn it, you know?

Mm-hmm.

If you were in corporate and

how do you learn these skills?

How do you learn copywriting?

How do you how to write a headline?

Mm-hmm.

Or a sales page, or how do you

price yourself or how do you

create a proposal?

All those things.

And it's been really powerful.

I just launched it a few weeks ago.

And it's already been amazing.

Like the clients are able to bring the

specific things to the table that they

have questions on.

And don't just trust my opinion, like

hear all the other support and the

transformations that are really cool.

I love it.

Does, is that open enrollment

or do you have like a, cohort

that goes together at the same time?

No, it's an open enrollment.

Okay.

I decided it, this was like a

passion project I just launched.

It's, only like 2 97 a month.

Mm-hmm.

And it's weekly coaching.

Like right now the price is gonna

be at that point.

Mm-hmm.

I wanted to keep the price low because

I wanna have like purpose-driven

consultants and coaches together.

And so I deliberately kept

the price low and building those

actionable skills.

So we have weekly masterclass where

it's like we have a content and then

we have hot seats and conversations.

More content.

Mm-hmm.

It's pretty cool.

So people self-select in as

purpose driven, like what if you just

wanna make money?

is that an opt place for you?

Or,

I'm not really the best fit because my

belief is that the most sustainable,

most scalable, most profitable

business is the one that's aligned

to who you are.

and your passions.

Like it's, if you're a mid-career

person, like what's the point?

If you just wanna make money, go

somewhere else.

Like, I'm not your girl.

If you wanna make money doing what

you love, I'm your girl, but I don't

really wanna help.

I feel like it's unethical in the

consulting coaching space, to be honest.

Mm-hmm.

like, I'm not trying to be judgy

on other people, if that's the way

they wanna do it.

Mm-hmm.

when you think about the sacred role of a

consultant or coach, like we help ignite

transformation in either organizations

or people.

So let's say I'm a consultant

and I go into an organization that

might be struggling.

If I'm just in it for the paycheck,

I'm not gonna take all of the issues

seriously that.

Employees and customers are gonna

tell me, and I'm not doing justice.

Like you can't invite people to

focus groups and ask them to bear

their souls and not take what they're

telling you with, reverence it would

be saying, do you wanna go to a doctor

who's just in it for money without caring

about the patient?

Mm-hmm.

do you wanna hire a coach who just wants

to get famous, or do you wanna have

a coach who cares about helping you?

To me, the purpose-driven is an

alignment with the client-centric, like

a purpose-driven.

Mm-hmm.

Client-centric service, they're

all the same.

You cannot have a purpose-driven

business if you don't have somebody

that you actually care about helping.

Like when I talk to you on my

podcast About.

Intellectual property, you

are right away.

Like, I wanna help people who are

experts and I wanna help women because

I believe that women are all about,

wealth in the hand of women, hands of

women is going to make a difference

in society.

And so of course if I have all

these options, like why would I

go to someone who just like, oh, I'm

a really smart.

intellectual property attorney,

please, here's my $500 an hour rate.

Or do I wanna have someone that's

like, wow, you really care about

me, you care about my intellectual

property, you care about me having

wealth so that I could give back

to the world.

Mm-hmm.

and even planting the seed around

how am I gonna give back to the world?

why would I ever wanna go

to anyone else?

Yeah.

I

agree that, and that's nice.

and they'll coming at it from that

point of view as a group that

they're all on the same page about

that and making sure that they're

helping people.

I love that.

So is there anything new in 2023 that

you're seeing this different, you've

been doing this, I think you said

15 years, what's on the horizon in

who's coming outta corporate now and

how is it different from the people who

are coming outta corporate pre

pandemic, maybe.

actually, those are two different

questions that are kind of related.

For people who are coming outta

corporate right now, I think it's just

we're seeing the residuals of the

whole pandemic, post pandemic and people

wanting more balance in their lives

and, organizations.

I've seen a difference

in the past.

I would say there was a shift in 2008

and there's a shift now, before 2008.

you had like this many customers and

this many employees in it kind of match.

Mm-hmm.

2008 with a recession's, like

okay, customers dropped off,

then they dropped employees, and

then when customers started coming

back, they kept employees like this.

Mm-hmm.

And so now employees were working

2, 3, 4 jobs.

in the past.

And there was no time to think

and all of that.

And then I think with the pandemic,

it accelerated that whole thing

the workloads are crazy, but then

it's like companies are navigating

the virtual workforce versus

the live workforce.

And I think that there's a shift from

that standpoint.

So I think that people

are coming out.

Are a little bit like battle

fatigued.

They're a tight, like in 2020, a

lot of people are really energetic.

Like, okay, I'm gonna take

charge of this.

I'm gonna invest in my website,

all of this Right now, people have

more economic uncertainty, there's

more fear, and I think there's

just a collective soul exhaustion.

Mm-hmm.

That's at a different level now.

Like, so I think that from that

standpoint, as it relates to business

development, My favorite obsession.

I'm obsessed with ai.

I'm obsessed with chat.

G P T I just discovered it

yesterday, like

literally yesterday.

Like I've made it my, little

assistant, you you know, my

husband walks by and he's laughing.

He is like, watching me, with chat

G P T, and it's like, no, that's

not what I want.

I want this, you and I'm learning

how to make chat, G B T B, my junior

copywriter, oh, and my junior content

creator, like talking about ip.

that's actually an issue for you.

it's like if people are creating a body

of work, how do you differentiate

between what chat cheap PTs creating

versus what you're creating?

But it's fascinating.

I could say, I could write something,

I'm like, Hey, could you rewrite

this in the voice of Betsy And it,

does my voice, I'm like, This is weird.

how do you know my voice?

So you

fed it like your past writings,

and then it kind of goes, okay,

this is the way she generally

write.

How does it.

It knows my writings.

I did something, I played around

with it once.

It was like I took something I

was working on.

I'm like, can you rewrite this

in The Voice of Betsy Jordan?

And then I did that, and then it's

like, you and I both know Carol Cox.

So I'm like, can you rewrite it in The

voice of Carol Cox?

So speaking your brand and then

rewrote it in Carol's language.

And I was like, oh, that's so weird.

I was like, little shifts between

the two of us.

like, this is fascinating.

it's very fascinating.

Even little things like, Hey, can you

give me a script on how to confront

my adult daughter who's living with

me now and, how to ask her to help me

know, clean up more.

it's like, oh, well, and then it

would just gimme a little script.

I'm like, ah, this is pretty

good, Mm-hmm.

I think that that's gonna be a trend

that we need to be paying attention to.

I think that's gonna really shake up

the marketing world and the content

creation world in a very big way.

Yeah.

the reason it even came across my,

desk, so to speak, because I To me,

AI was just way outside of, I'm

like, ah, I can't, after I was doing

a legal M C L E, you know, training

about the impact of ai, like the

legal implications of ai, and they're

describing all the things it could

do, I'm like, it could do that.

It could do that.

So immediately had to go on like, yeah.

And so now I'm obsessed too.

I spent the afternoon, on

chat, G P t.

Oh my God.

I asked Zach chat, g b t before

our interview.

I'm like, what are some good questions

I could ask Aaron on my podcast.

And it's like, Aaron Austin

is an attorney and a business

strategist who does X, Y, and Z.

and so he gave me a bunch of ideas like,

you what inspired you to become an

an intellectual property attorney?

Have you always worked for

yourself or did work for a firm?

what is intellectual property?

what's the best way?

It had all kinds of questions.

Like I didn't necessarily ask you

those questions.

Mm-hmm.

But it's like, that was an interesting

starting point.

one of the things that came out during

this training is because lots of law

firms have already started using it,

and Before we even really heard about

it, cuz they use it for document

production and, doing due diligence

and all this stuff what it will be is

like, you know, will it replace lawyers?

It's like, well no, but lawyers who

don't use it will be at a massive

disadvantage.

And that it may even be that it could

be, you malpractice not to use it.

Because what if you miss something,

if you've got a thousand documents

to look at and you use people instead

of AI and you miss something, it's

at malpractice.

So, and I imagine.

In other industries, because you can

be more efficient and maybe, perform

more quickly, more accurately, maybe

charge less, that if you're not using

it, that it will be a disadvantage.

it's like someone not having a website

if you're not using ai, you know?

I think that that's interesting,

because there's two flip sides.

Like you can't really replace the

expertise, but I worry that it's

gonna make us dumb.

I spent a lot of time thinking about

like our interview.

Mm-hmm.

And what I wanted to talk about.

obviously I approached you in

the beginning to say, I want you

on the show for a particular reason.

But the creative process of trying

to figure like, okay, what is it

that I wanna say?

is a risk factor, but that's

a big thing.

that's coming up.

the initial point of this particular

podcast is all around like,

thinking about profit and how

to, think about profit from a

scale standpoint is it does create

more efficiencies.

Mm-hmm.

So that allows you to scale and if you

don't have money to invest in assistance

or if you are using assistance,

it allows you to do that.

I like that.

Well, you did touch on like the AI.

And IP and the conflicts there.

But when you're working with your

clients, and I know, developing

thought leadership and content is

part of what you help them do.

do explicit questions about

intellectual property come up?

Like what are they thinking about

building IP assets?

Are they thinking about that journey

from hourly to exit?

what, happening around those issues?

I look at everything like in a five

step, you and I are process people.

Mm-hmm.

so To me, there's like five phases

of your business.

First, it's you gotta start the

right business, then you gotta figure

out your brand messaging position

and your website and getting your

website situated.

And then you need to be in some sort

of process where you know how to

convert clients.

And then the ultimate place

is that thought leadership.

Mm-hmm.

Because that is where you scale

and there's no other way to scale

without content.

there's no way that you're gonna

be a premium brand position.

You can't raise your fees because without

content you're not gonna look

like that expert.

if without content, you can't

really show up on social media.

You can't really stand out.

I have some clients who are naturally

inclined in that way, but most of

my clients are a little bit afraid

of intellectual property of the

vulnerability, you this is where the

whole transition from corporate to

this kind of stuff.

It's like, well, I put my

ideas out there.

Like, I remember the first time I

was creating videos, it was like, I

was overwhelmed.

Like my first video guy, I'll never

forget this whole thing I went to, his

place and I wound up staying with him

and his wife, and before I left, he's

like, okay, you're be doing scripts.

you're gonna be doing scripts to

the teleprompter.

I'm like, no, no, no, Chad, I

don't do that.

Like, I'm just gonna be on the cuff.

You know, I'm gonna be on the flight.

And he's like, no, no, no, you're

gonna do that.

I'm like, Okay, fine.

So I got there and I wrote some scripts.

So I go downstairs and I read my

script to him and he records and

he is like, Nope, this is terrible.

Go back up.

I'm like, ah, okay.

So I go back up and then I write

another one.

He is like, no, this is still terrible.

Go back up.

And then I come back down.

He is like, okay, this is good.

And I wrote like seven

different scripts.

We were hoping for three videos.

Mm-hmm.

But once I got three.

Videos up.

I was able to get like seven that day.

I learned something at that particular

point, like how to quickly

manifest the ideas.

when my website launched, like I

was landing clients, from other parts

of the world, like people, I never

met six figure engagements because

of the power of my content.

Wow.

Because I had videos, because I

had all of this.

So my whole global business is built on

content, so, Content is essential, but

the questions that I would ask like

first, people have to be ready for it.

But where the source of your

content is, it's not even just in

your formal business experience mm-hmm.

Is in your personal experience.

So we work on what's your story

and like, what's your big idea?

I have a client who is a cancer

survivor, and at the same time when

she had cancer, her dad had cancer

and he had passed.

And so she's already been a productivity

kind of person.

Mm-hmm.

But this experience ignited her.

It's like, We don't have time to waste

with inefficiencies.

We need to get our work done

fast so we can go live our lives.

And so when she works on content,

it's not like, okay, let's just talk

about productivity.

Mm-hmm.

It's talk about let's say somebody

might say well, what are five ways that

you can maximize?

how the service delivery or

something like that.

Mm-hmm.

Like, and the reason why this is so

important is, just keep reinforcing

this big idea.

Yes.

There's a story behind why wealth

in the hands of women is important.

Mm-hmm.

if you're creating content, there's

always like that reiteration of this

bigger picture.

it's not just about creating a

body of work, it's about creating

wealth so that you can give back to

the world, right?

Mm-hmm.

And keep bringing it back to that point.

That's what I, I didn't do when I

started my content and now my content

is really clunky.

So with my clients, I call it your

controlling idea.

Kind of like your thesis

of your paper.

Mm-hmm.

Have clarity on your thesis so that

everything that you write about supports

that main point.

That's very nice.

Well, this is a very meta podcast,

I like to say.

So it is about for female founders

of F businesses who are building

a business that they can hopefully

sell someday.

So do you have future plans for

your business that may include

selling?

Yeah, my husband keeps talking

about this one.

I would love coaching on that

one because it's hard for me to

visualize, like, how would I sell?

my business when it's so tied to

my personality.

Mm-hmm.

So that would be like, of course,

who wouldn't want that at some point?

I don't see myself retiring ever at

a point, but the idea of having that

opportunity, but I can't visualize it.

So that's where I would refer to

someone like you.

Like, paint a picture for me.

What would that look like?

Well, I like

to say that the things that help you

scale your business are the same things

that would help you sell your business

in the future.

So things that are decoupling the

income from you, Betsy, you know,

putting in the work.

So developing frameworks,

developing courses, having maybe

additional coaches on, you know, who

could, run the business after you,

or having something that, if an.

Bigger coaching company, Johnny, you

know, tiny Robbins came over and said

he wanted to buy your, framework to

have something that you could sell.

But those are the same things that

you are doing anyway to grow your

business today.

So, You're laying them foundations

for that already.

That's

it.

That's a such an interesting picture.

Mm-hmm.

that would be an interesting, this

thing to see is more like how do

you paint that picture of what

would it look like?

Mm-hmm.

For to sell a personal business.

Franklin Covey did it, you know?

they're not alive anymore.

I'm sure Marshall Goldsmith's gonna

have the same thing.

He's got a legacy business.

Brene Brown probably has a

legacy business.

Oh, I'm sure.

Uhhuh.

But it's like how to see yourself

in that same way.

Yeah.

you're a parent.

So we can look at our businesses as

raising children that are going

to be independent from us someday.

Like how can this kid possibly be

independent from us?

But if we're raising them correctly then

they will go on and succeed without us.

think of it a little bit that way too.

So, Interesting.

All right, so you've mentioned