Shownotes
If you’ve heard complaints about “lazy” Gen Z workers, you’re not alone. But are these stereotypes based on reality, or are they just old-school misconceptions? We sat down with Brett King, CEO of Exploring Potential, to unpack these myths and dig into what Gen Z is actually bringing to the table. Spoiler: It’s not laziness—it’s a need for meaning and connection.
Brett shares how companies can stop blaming generational gaps and start taking responsibility for creating environments where employees thrive. He explains why Gen Z values empathy and patience in leadership and how they’re vetting potential employers based on values and culture. It’s not just about the paycheck—it’s about making an impact and feeling valued.
At the end of the day, all generations need to work together to create a collaborative and productive workplace. Brett highlights how reducing turnover and avoiding combative dynamics starts with understanding each other’s needs and priorities. From soft skills to purpose-driven leadership, fostering mutual respect is key to bridging generational gaps.
We also discuss the importance of emotional intelligence in leadership and why companies with strong training programs see significantly lower turnover rates. Brett offers real-world advice for business owners struggling to bridge the gap between seasoned leaders and a new generation of workers. Whether it’s investing in soft skills or connecting the dots between tasks and purpose, this episode is packed with actionable insights.
Looking to attract and retain the next generation of talent? This conversation is a must-listen for leaders who want to grow their businesses and their teams.
Highlights:
- Debunking the myth of lazy Gen Z workers: what they really want from employers.
- How to train leaders to balance empathy, patience, and accountability.
- Emotional intelligence: why it’s the most important skill for today’s leaders.
- The hidden costs of turnover and how to fix them.
- Why collaboration across generations is the key to avoiding high turnover.
If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and review. Share it with a friend or business owner who’s navigating today’s multigenerational workforce!
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Transcripts
Hey everyone, I want to welcome you back to Blue Collar BS, the podcast where we debunk the myth that we can't find good people in the trades industry. And today we have a special guest, but before we get into our special guest and have these awesome discussions about debunking some myths, we kind of want to talk about what it really looks like with the multi -generational workforce and a lot of the myths that are coming out with Gen Z.
and how they don't necessarily want to work in the workplace. Is that really true? So we brought on our guest today, Brett King. Brett is the CEO of Exploring Potential. He has spent the last 15 years working with some of the world's leading organizations across several unique industries, providing solutions for developing a positive company culture through training, communications, and change management strategies that ultimately save time.
money and increase revenues and efficiencies. Brett's an award -winning, Emmy award -winning nominated director and producer with an accomplished background in media, television and advertising. Brett applies his experience engaging audiences of all kinds to create talent solutions and organizations or departments of all sizes. His work has been recognized with multiple Addy Awards and an American Business Award. Brett, that's amazing. Welcome to the show, Brett.
Brett (:thank you Steve. It's great to be here. I appreciate the opportunity.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah. So we were introduced through a, through a mutual contact. and I just want to say just, just sincere, thanks for joining us today to talk about debunking some of these myths that we see in, in the workplace today. So.
Brett (:Thank you for doing all you do. I know you got more to that, but I just want to stop and say, yeah, when our mutual friend connected us, I was thrilled. I listened to a couple of your episodes, and I was just like, we need to be talking about this. So I love what y 'all are doing here, and please keep doing it. I think it's good for everybody.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Steve Doyle (:Awesome. Now, thank you very much. So I almost forgot. So before I forget, which generation do you identify with?
Brett (:Yeah, great question. So I would technically be a millennial. Yeah.
Steve Doyle (:All right. Wow. All right. Didn't have you, didn't have you in that category. So awesome. So awesome. So, so, and for, for our guests, you'll notice that, you know, I didn't introduce a Brad cause Brad's out at a charity event. So we can, you know, recognize and kick the boomer out for a little bit. And, you know, we can have a little fun. So, so yeah, a lot of in the workplace today, there's a lot of, I would say myths around.
Brett (:present a bit older I'm told
Brett (:I'm going to go to bed.
Steve Doyle (:the Gen Z workers coming into the workforce. Specifically, the ones that we hear a lot in the trades, well, we've got a lot of lazy kids that don't want to come in. They come in late. They're always on their devices. So in your experience, talk to us a little bit about what you've seen with the Gen Z workforce.
Brett (:Mm -hmm.
Brett (:Yeah, great question. I think there's, you know, there are myths for a reason, right? There's certain things that are, you know, you may see more of, you may see less of, but I think there's so much more to it than what is typically talked about on the surface, which is why I love this show, right? You are actually digging in and examining this at a deeper level. I think some of those myths of Gen Z being lazy or they don't want to work, from the work that we do, what we do,
Steve Doyle (:you
Brett (:we see is that's really not true. Gen Z is actually looking for meaning in their work, and they are looking for a different management style. Now, I don't want to sit there and say, and then place the blame on an older worker who is maybe in a different generation and say, no, this is your fault, you have to adapt, right? I actually look to the companies and say, how are we supporting our leadership in a way that's not
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Yes.
Brett (:where they're going to be able to support the next generation of workforce. And I think that's where the disconnect is. It's not so much you can put a generation in a box and say they do this or they do this other thing. There may be some generality, generalities there. Generalizations, we'll say. But at the end of the day, I don't think you can just lump a group together and say they do this and this and what are we gonna do about it? Or it just is what it is. They don't wanna work. It's not true. They're looking for something different than,
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Right? Right.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah. Yep.
Brett (:you and I might have looked for in job. And what's happening is those people in those leadership positions who are meant to manage this new generation of workforce, they don't necessarily have the tools or capacity or support from a development standpoint to lead those individuals. And that is a learning curve. There is a new skill set that comes with that. And I think that's where a lot of companies are falling short. Not a lot of managers or not a lot of.
Not generations, right? I'm not going to sit here and say, well, the boomers need to adapt. No, that's not true. They need, you know, everybody needs to adapt to each other. And it's on these companies to provide those resources.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah. Great.
Yes.
Steve Doyle (:Right, so you kind of talked about two prongs here. So let's go down the first prong first where we're talking about the younger generation looking for something different, some more meaning in their work. Do you mind elaborating a little bit more on what you've seen as far as that's concerned?
Brett (:Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, we do a lot of work with movie theaters through our company. And so we get to see a lot of the younger workforce, Gen Z and then, you know, even what's coming after, which is kind of hard to believe, just because they do employ so young. And so, you know, what we see is they are interested in the values and the culture of the company. What does the company stand for? What is the company culture like?
Steve Doyle (:Yeah, I know, right?
Brett (:What do they value and how do they give back? How do they show up in this world? Those things are more important to Gen Z in particular than other generations. And so they're spending the time to look on the website. What does this company stand for? Do they align with my personal values? Because when they go to work, they go to work and they want meaning in their work. That's the other thing too. So,
Steve Doyle (:and
Steve Doyle (:Mm.
Brett (:I think it's actually two separate things. I think one is vetting the company itself and knowing that the company stands for something bigger that resonates with them. And then two, it's really understanding from their own perspective what, I lost my train of thought there, but just going back to where they wanna get that value out of.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Brett (:out of their job as well. Like they want to feel like they're doing something good or meaningful with their time. So that could be as simple as an usher at a movie theater, they're hired to sweep popcorn. That might be your on the surface job description. But actually what they're doing is creating a cleanliness and clean environment for guests to come in and have an elevated experience. I've suddenly now connected the dots between you just sweeping the floor,
Steve Doyle (:Yeah.
Brett (:and you having meaning behind why you're sweeping that floor. And that's what this younger generation needs. They need to connect those dots.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah. And that's such a key nugget that we see a lot of people missing is helping these younger people connect the dots. Because for most of us, I'm going to put myself in that older generation, right? Not quite boomer, you know, and yeah, Brad teases me a little bit that I'm right on that edge of being a millennial. But when we look at it, when we look at it, we are so much in X's and O's like, do this, do the, here's what you're doing. We're, we're so focused on the.
that we do forget to relate the meaning to those tasks. Like, why is this important? Why do I need to do this? And when we're asked these questions, we often get pissed off because we're like, just shut up and do the task. I'm not here to tell you why, because it doesn't matter to me. And that's one of, yeah, just, yeah.
Brett (:You're getting paid. That's why, just go do it. Yeah, and that's no fault of, I know you're picking on yourself here, but anybody in an older generation or any generation that feels that way, that's no fault of their own. And I think that's an important key point to make is they also need to be retrained and given tools to support what is then needed in the workforce, to realize, just even to be aware that there is the...
Steve Doyle (:Yep. Right.
Brett (:that they are going to have younger employees who are going to have a need to understand the why.
Steve Doyle (:Right, right. So let's, let's, let's dig into that a little bit deeper. So this is the second prong then where we have to come in. We have to have training for these leaders, whether, whether they're boomers, they're Gen X, they're millennials, or even some of those older Gen Z's that are also kind of like on that border of millennial Gen Z where, you know, they might not have quite grasped that Y component yet, or they're too focused on the Y and not as focused on the test. So,
When we talk about how to lead these this younger generation, what have you kind of seen as some of those those myths and then things that we have to adjust?
Brett (:Yeah, they kind of go hand in hand. As you would expect. Because I think the myths, you know, we talked about them at the beginning. people don't want to work, or they're lazy, or they're screen heads, right? And like, some of which may or may not be true. Like, there is absolutely truth to this, you know, I don't even want to call it a myth, to this idea that Gen Z is more tied to their screen.
Steve Doyle (:Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Ha!
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Yep. Yes.
Brett (:They were raised on it. They grew up on it. It makes perfect sense. So from a training perspective, it's not put your phone down because I said so. It's if we have our phones out, we're not paying attention to the guests, right? It's once again going back to the why. Going back more directly to your question though, from a training perspective, what we really need to focus on with our leaders is soft skill development, which can be scary, right? Especially for, you know,
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Okay. Yeah.
Brett (:some people who have been doing things a certain way their entire lives, right? But what the new generations are looking for, and there's been some research that's come out recently, one of the top two things they look for in a leader is empathy and patience. Empathy and patience is what Gen Z values more than anything in their leaders. And if we're gonna sit here and say,
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Brett (:these lazy kids don't wanna work and they won't put their damn screens down and just go sweep the floor, that's why we're missing. That's why there's a disconnect between how each generation feels about each other or how a leader might feel. We have to arm our leadership teams with the soft skills, with emotional intelligence skills. I said emotion in the workplace, that's scary, right? Yeah, that sends chills up your spine, right? No, it's like, like.
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm. Yes.
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Yes, you did. I know, right?
Brett (:It's so funny because whenever we talk about emotional intelligence, I always lead with saying, that might sound scary, emotions in the workplace, but this is something you're doing and navigating every single day. I'm just putting a word to it. Like, you're already doing this thing. So it's skills like that that we need to arm our leaders with to make them better able to manage our younger workforce.
Steve Doyle (:Right. Right.
Steve Doyle (:Right. So let's talk about that. Because in my head, knowing the generation that I grew up in, where we're more hard asses with how we handle everything, and you're telling, essentially you're telling the more experienced workforce, the Gen X and the Boomers, that they may have developed, if they're working on emotional intelligence, they may have developed that over the course of their career. But most, I'm going to generalize here.
Brett (:You
Steve Doyle (:You know, so you guys can flog me on, on social media for this, but most of us, you know, it's just shut up and do the job. So there is no necessarily empathy that we, that we carry into this is because we are raised as being such hard ass, you know, just do this or you're going to get whooped. And we translate that into the workplace where it's just like, I want you to do this, or there's going to be repercussions. There is that.
Brett (:Hahaha.
Steve Doyle (:the lack of empathy, that lack of compassion, if you will, for that generation that people view, those of us view as, hey, you're being disrespectful because you're in your screen and you don't really care. So how do we help those that have that, I would say, mental block of that lack of empathy that is so needed for, you know, I wouldn't just say the Gen Z, but also millennials.
Brett (:Yeah, absolutely, I would agree. I would agree, yeah. You know, that's the toughest question, right? Because my answer to that, people might not like either, especially online, is, you know, yeah, let's just stir up the drama, right? How's your turnover, is what I would ask. How's your turnover? How much are you spending on the cost of hiring? It's...
Steve Doyle (:You know need that
Steve Doyle (:Good! Good!
Right.
Yeah.
Brett (:Not cheap to hire an employee. It's $1 ,500 to $3 ,000 an employee, not to mention their salary, not to mention all this stuff. You got an average in the US, 52 % turnover. I guarantee you that many of your listeners are much higher. Maybe you got some that are lower, but majority are gonna be a lot higher. You look at that and you say, if I do nothing, I'm paying all this money to hire a bunch of new people all the time because I'm having, because this is happening.
Steve Doyle (:Yep. Right.
Steve Doyle (:Right. Yep.
Brett (:I'm having clashes, right? Clashes with upper management who says just go do the damn job and Gen Z who I need to come in and fill these spots but who needs a different level of leadership. You start to, you know, you hate to be the jerk to say too bad, you're gonna have to buck up and learn these new skills but if you want your bottom line to improve, if you want your talent retention to improve, you're gonna have to buck up and do these things. That's the truth, yeah.
Steve Doyle (:Hmm?
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Steve Doyle (:Right, you're gonna have to take a look in the mirror and recognize where the problem lies. And most times, most people are not willing to look in the mirror to do that because it's so easy to blame someone else.
Brett (:That's exactly it.
Brett (:especially if you can make broad sweeping generalizations that the internet agrees with. Like, it's nobody wants to work anymore. Guess what? They do. And we work with a lot of companies that are hiring and having no problem finding talent. So it's not, what is it? You know, we typically might say it's not you, it's me. It's not them, it's you. In this case, if you're having trouble with talent, it's a you thing.
Steve Doyle (:Yes.
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Right.
Brett (:It really is in this economy and that's what I'll say that will probably get me some online hate. But I will tell anybody to their face, it's a you problem. It's not a talent problem.
Steve Doyle (:Yes. Right. And until we until we can recognize and actually look in the mirror and go, OK, it's me. Fine. It's me. Let's let's do that. But then as I'm working on that, how do I do this with grace? Right. How do I make those changes with grace?
Brett (:Yeah.
Yes, with grace. So that's a, I love that. I think, you know, I think all generations, perhaps I shouldn't speak to sweeping generalizations, but I think, you know, when we talk about developing skills, right, this is where a training program or a continuous development program really comes into play. Because I think regardless of generation, the opportunity to excel, accelerate your career,
or your skill set, like those are welcomed opportunities in general, right? Again, there's gonna be exceptions. But I think if those opportunities can come from the company, where the company is willing to invest in the training and development of their employees, you're gonna get through this gracefully, because it shows that you're gonna teach the right skills to the right people, and that's a graceful way of handling it. You can show like, hey, what we're doing here is supporting all of our people through this program.
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Brett (:And I think if more people had, matter of fact, ADP just said, put out a report that you have 50 % less turnover with a strong employee onboarding and training program. 50%, if you're talking about three grand a hire and your turnover is at 50%, like start doing the math on that and then cut it in half if you invested in a training program. It's significant.
Steve Doyle (:Yes.
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Right. Right. Yeah. And that's such a great point because so many businesses that Brad and I work with, they're not necessarily so focused on the sheer amount of turnover that they have. It's just that they're in constant turnover. They're not looking at those dollars because they're not quote unquote paying them out because, hey, they're in for a week and then they're out. They're in for a week and then they're out. Like,
what's going on. And it's like.
Brett (:It's not a, we run into that often, I'm sorry to cut you off there Steve, but we run into that often of proving the value of a training program because that's one of our, that's our core service, is creating customized, completely custom training programs for companies. And often we have to get them to look and say, listen, your expense, this is not an investment that's an added expense, this is gonna save you money. But what's tough is your expenses for this are hidden costs, they don't show up on your P &L.
Steve Doyle (:No, you're good.
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Great.
Steve Doyle (:Yes.
Brett (:But if you analyze your hiring and your turnover and the cost of hiring, you will be calling me immediately the next morning to sign up. Because you will look at that and say, I can't afford to keep doing things this way. But because it's not on the P &L, to your point, it's just sort of not accounted for that the turnover is so expensive that they need to do something different rather than, well, let's just put out another ad on Craigslist or wherever people are finding talent these days, right?
Steve Doyle (:Yes.
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Steve Doyle (:yeah, we talked about that so many shows ago, pulling ads on Craigslist. Yeah, you're gonna find some winners there.
Brett (:Yeah, exactly.
Steve Doyle (:Well, joking aside with that one. So. So as. As we look at the the workforce today and look at. I would say let's let's look at it in two different ways. Let's look at those current business owners that are kind of like OK, right? We kind of get what you're saying. What what are our next? What is something we can tangibly do right now to help?
Brett (:Yeah, that's the hot spot.
Steve Doyle (:You know, identify what those what those gaps are that we're having. So and and. What can we like give give our audience like one or two good nuggets that they can go do today in their business to help address the gap of you know there with with the with their hiring.
Brett (:love it. So two things right off the cuff that I would recommend. The first is analyze your true cost of hiring. It's not that hard to do, you know, just take the resources that are going into, you know, the time spent, everything from posting an ad that a position is available to, you know, through the onboarding paperwork, through the initial training, truly look at that whole process and do a quick cost analysis. What are your hard costs associated with that?
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Yep.
Brett (:And then you'll understand, because you'll also know your turnover rate, that should be pretty easy to figure out. That will give you an idea of how inefficiencies may be impacting your turnover. And if you have no problem there, great, that's awesome. But at least you'll know your truth at that point. So that would be my first recommendation is analyze your true cost of hiring, because that's where you could make up some serious ground by just tidying things up a little bit. And then,
The second piece I'd say, if you knew that or if you wanted to just skip to this part, because they're not mutually, they're not exclusive, right? You can do one or the other, you can do both, it doesn't matter the order. If you were to pick any subject to develop your entire team on as far as a new skill set, emotional intelligence. Just invest in some emotional intelligence training for your team or...
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Yes.
Brett (:Honestly, YouTube, there are free resources out there, but I would say the subject of emotional intelligence for all generations of your workforce, including your frontline employees who aren't even leading somebody, that is where I would spend my time and money if I had nothing else.
Steve Doyle (:Mm -hmm.
Steve Doyle (:Yes.
Steve Doyle (:Yep. Awesome. And then looking at, so the second part of this question is looking at those younger generations, that young generation coming into the workforce. What are two pieces of advice you would give to them?
Brett (:Great question. So I think the same thing, I think, first of all, I would give the same exact advice as the second part of my first answer is even if you're doing it yourself, invest time in understanding emotional intelligence. The second piece, just knowing what we know, is the advice I would give them is they're looking for patience and I would say,
Steve Doyle (:and
Steve Doyle (:Yeah. Yes.
Brett (:we need to exercise patience as well because we're all learning. We're all learning to coexist and now in my head this person is going to a company that's on the right path. So my words of wisdom there are like, look, have patience, your leaders are learning as well. And that's the advice I'd give. Now again, that's the assumption that the company is on the right path. If the company's not on the right path,
The honest to God advice I would give that younger person is look for the company that's on the right path. Because again, it's their world. Like, it's the talent's world. They get to pick.
Brett (:Absolutely, so you can find out a little more about what we do at exploring potential comm if you're interested We do have a podcast called the exploring potential podcast, which is just backslash podcast if you go to exploring potential comm That is definitely the best place to reach us. You can certainly reach out at via email at info at exploring potential comm and Somebody from our team will get right back with you. But like I said, yeah, we're
We're happy to help with anything hiring, training, onboarding, development. That is our wheelhouse.
Brett (:Thank you, thank you Steve, it's been a joy. I have a feeling you and I could talk for a lot longer, but then your episodes would get way too long. So, no, this is a joy. Please keep doing what you guys are doing. This is really valuable for people to hear. I appreciate the opportunity.