Shownotes
The salient point of this podcast episode is the profound influence of African Americans on American culinary traditions, as articulated by our esteemed guest Adrian Miller. Throughout our discussion, we delve into the extensive contributions that African Americans have made, not only in the realm of barbecue but within the broader spectrum of American foodways. Miller emphasizes the importance of recognizing and appreciating these contributions, which have often been overlooked in historical narratives. We further explore the intersections of culture, food, and personal experiences, revealing how these elements shape our identities and culinary practices. As we engage in a variety of thought-provoking questions, we invite listeners to reflect on their own culinary journeys and the shared stories that connect us all.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Painted Hills Natural Beef
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
This is Barbecue Nation After Hours.
Speaker B:The conversation that took place after the show ended.
Speaker A:Hey, everybody, it's jt.
Speaker A:And this is a special version of Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:It is brought to you in part by Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends.
Speaker A:That's Painted Hills Natural Beef.
Speaker A:Hey, everybody.
Speaker A:Welcome to After Hours here on Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:I'm JT along with Leanne Whippen, and we've got Adrian Miller with us today.
Speaker A:And if you watched the super bowl yesterday, it was a legitimate call.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker B:Oh, man, you're just coming in hot, right?
Speaker C:There we go.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:This is kind of where we ask you some.
Speaker A:Some different types of questions.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker A:Did you stick on After Hours with us the last time?
Speaker B:I can't remember.
Speaker B:I don't remember.
Speaker B:But, yeah, I'm ready for it.
Speaker A:Okay, let's start with something fun.
Speaker A:What would your last meal on Death Row be?
Speaker B:So I think it would be my favorite soul food meal.
Speaker B:It would be some whole fried bone in catfish with some mustard and turnip greens, some coleslaw and some hush puppies and some red Kool Aid.
Speaker A:No, okra.
Speaker B:No okra.
Speaker B:I. I like okra, but it's not.
Speaker C:I like collards better, too.
Speaker A:Yeah, collards better.
Speaker A:I. I'm more of an okra guy, but that's okay.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:In all.
Speaker A:In all three of your books,
Speaker B:you've
Speaker A:written about varied topics, of course, but it's all about, you know, black America and their influence, and you cover a lot of topics with that.
Speaker A:But when you've.
Speaker A:After you've written all three books, Adrian, what's the biggest thing you garnered that said.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:I mean, we talked a little bit about it in the regular show, but.
Speaker A:And I'm just not talking about black smoke.
Speaker A:I'm talking about all three books.
Speaker A:What was the biggest revelation to you?
Speaker B:So I think the biggest thing was just the sheer extent that African Americans have shaped American food ways.
Speaker B:And it was unappreciated.
Speaker B:I mean, it was not.
Speaker B:And I don't even know if we'll ever understand the scale of the contributions.
Speaker B:I mean, African Americans were cooking in almost every aspect of our society, from private homes to the most elite situations.
Speaker B:And I just didn't know that.
Speaker B:And so that.
Speaker B:Just the sheer influence of African Americans.
Speaker B:And I'll give you one example.
Speaker B:Like music, pop music, for the most part.
Speaker B:Most pop singers, regardless of what race you are, are singing in a black aesthetic.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because African Americans have shaped that genre so much.
Speaker B:And you can say the same for hip hop.
Speaker B:Most people, when they're rapping, they're doing it in a black aesthetic.
Speaker B:I think the same thing happened with food.
Speaker B:It's just that we didn't pay as much attention to it and chronicle it.
Speaker B:So I would love for somebody to go back there and maybe pick up the clues and see the.
Speaker B:The, you know, show the West African technique and stuff as it plays out.
Speaker B:I'm just not knowledgeable in these things, so it would be hard for me to see that in a recipe, but I think it's in front of us in plain sight.
Speaker A:Would you ever consider.
Speaker A:This is actually just a personal question for me, but would you ever consider, like, being on a panel with you and Robert Moss and some other people that have studied the black food history and stuff, and maybe you guys could compare notes and maybe you found something that Robert didn't and vice versa and whomever.
Speaker A:I think that would be fascinating.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:No, I would love to be on a panel.
Speaker B:My only caveat is I have to have top billing.
Speaker B:That's the only way I'll be on a panel.
Speaker B:Other than that, I'm just playing.
Speaker B:I love it.
Speaker A:Oh, that's good.
Speaker A:I'll be your agent for that, bud.
Speaker B:All right, man.
Speaker B:Just get top dollar, dude.
Speaker A:Top.
Speaker A:Top billing.
Speaker A:Here's one of our favorite ones.
Speaker A:If you could dine with.
Speaker A:And then, well, let's just put it this way.
Speaker A:Because of your limited availability to cook where you live, if you could dine with a historical figure, who would it be?
Speaker A:And then what would be on the menu?
Speaker A:Could be anybody alive or dead.
Speaker B:Oh, man.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So many people.
Speaker B:It would actually have to be the.
Speaker B:His Would have to be Jesus Christ.
Speaker B:The person I would love to break cornbread with him and talk about, hey, this is how this.
Speaker B:Your teachings have played out.
Speaker B:How do you feel about this?
Speaker B:I think we could have a very rich conversation about that.
Speaker B:So food wise, it would definitely be barbecue.
Speaker B:Because, you know, if you look at the scriptures, there's a lot of references to burnt offerings, and I think about barbecue.
Speaker B:So let's see.
Speaker B:He was Jewish by heritage, so we have.
Speaker B:Couldn't have pork, so maybe we would have some smoked lamb or some goat or something like.
Speaker B:Like that food.
Speaker B:Sides.
Speaker A:Adrian, how important is your faith to you?
Speaker A:You.
Speaker A:You work with the council of churches there in Colorado.
Speaker A:You mentioned it.
Speaker A:You just mentioned about dining with Jesus.
Speaker A:Is your faith a huge part of your life?
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:It's very foundational.
Speaker B:And I actually.
Speaker B:I just did a talk earlier today, and I mentioned this, so I'm very grateful to my parents for doing a lot of things for me.
Speaker B:But one thing that was really important to me is they kept me immersed in black culture, even in the suburbs of Denver, because they.
Speaker B: dently moved to Denver in the: Speaker B:My mom's from Chattanooga, Tennessee.
Speaker B:My dad's from Helena, Arkansas, and they met in church.
Speaker B:And I still go to that church to this day.
Speaker B:But one of the.
Speaker B:One of the things that they did is they kept me connected to that black church, even though we were in the suburbs.
Speaker B:So we would drive a half an hour each way for me to go to church.
Speaker B:And so it's very much my worldview, how I relate to people.
Speaker B:I'm about peace.
Speaker B:I try to be at peace with people.
Speaker B:I try to be loving to people.
Speaker B:And so it's very foundational to the way that I view the world, and it's a very important part of my life.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And I just love the black church culture, man.
Speaker B:Just going to a black church is so much fun.
Speaker B:I've gone to other churches, and I'm just bored out of my mind.
Speaker B:So I just love the worship style and the sense of community.
Speaker B:And then, you know, I just believe that we should make the world a better place.
Speaker B:We should try to love one another, and I try to live that out.
Speaker A:That's a.
Speaker A:That's a very good philosophy and way to look at things.
Speaker A:Although I will say, I don't know if you're aware of this.
Speaker A:I got the memo the other day that they have taken all the hellfire and brimstone out of hell, and they put Legos on the ground and make you walk barefooted over there.
Speaker B:Gosh.
Speaker C:Legos.
Speaker B:That's hilarious, man.
Speaker A:Who got.
Speaker B:Who sent you that memo?
Speaker A:Oh, I got it.
Speaker A:I've got.
Speaker A:I've got some very select people.
Speaker B:Divine hookups, my man.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But if you've ever stepped on a Lego barefooted in the middle of the night when you're traipsing over it in the fridge or something, you'll remember, trust me.
Speaker A:And you'll probably say some words that you can't say in church, but you'll remember that late.
Speaker A:Yeah, you will.
Speaker A:Besides, Leanne, if you could work with one of your barbecue heroes, who would it be?
Speaker B:Would be this guy named Dead or Alive?
Speaker A:Yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:It would definitely be this guy named Columbus B. Hill that I write about in my book.
Speaker B: hows up in Denver in the late: Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:He did a barbecue for 25,000 people.
Speaker C:That's amazing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so I would love to talk to that brother.
Speaker B: ually gets interviewed in the: Speaker B:So we get a sense of his barbecue mind.
Speaker B:But I would love to work with him.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And just a little footnote to that, through my research, I found his unmarked grave, really in Denver.
Speaker B: th of: Speaker B:So I'm gonna have a service for him and I'm gonna get a headstone and have one with his image and just say a little few things about him.
Speaker B:So this brother gets.
Speaker C:Oh, that's cool.
Speaker A:That's good for you.
Speaker A:Good for you.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think that's.
Speaker A:That's impressive.
Speaker A:Where do you think barbecue as a food genre is going?
Speaker A:I mean, it keeps growing.
Speaker A:It's like this huge snowball.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I don't see that ending anytime soon.
Speaker B:Let me just put it this way.
Speaker B:I was in the Middle east recently, and barbecue is huge.
Speaker B:And it's basically because these oil and gas guys are coming to the US for meetings and people take them out for barbecue.
Speaker B:Particularly in Texas, it is so life changing that they return home and they quit the oil and gas jobs and they do barbecue.
Speaker B:I've had basically Central Texas barbecue in Kuwait, Cairo, Dubai, Bahrain and Oman.
Speaker B:And I hear about all these other places, so I just think it's going global.
Speaker C:I agree.
Speaker B:I think it's just.
Speaker B:It's beloved.
Speaker B:Now what I would love is to see more styles of American barbecue go global as well.
Speaker B:Not just Central Texas, but yeah, man, it's just red hot.
Speaker B:I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Speaker A:It's funny you say that.
Speaker A:I was over there 20 years ago and they called it a goat crab.
Speaker A:And I was in Saudi and so they took me to this deal and I've got lots of stories about the time I was there, but they took me to this deal and they roast goats, fine.
Speaker A:I'd had goat before and all that, except the.
Speaker A:The locals pulled it off with their hands where the expats and all those guys, they were waiting for somebody to carve it off.
Speaker A:But what somebody.
Speaker A:Somebody out of.
Speaker A:And these are all.
Speaker A:Everybody in there is related to the Roya family one way or another.
Speaker A:That is the biggest family in the world.
Speaker A:I tell you that sincerely.
Speaker A:But when they'd come by, they'd just grab some, slap it on their plate and go on down and get some hummus or whatever.
Speaker A:But you could always tell the guys from the embassies and stuff because they were like, I'll just have two slices, you know, like that.
Speaker A:So it was pretty funny, but I don't know, it was.
Speaker A:I think they've probably come a long ways in the last 20 years since the.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Barbecue has become bigger and better.
Speaker A:But that is truly open, open pit cooking there, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:But I love the goat grab.
Speaker B:That is a beautiful name.
Speaker B:It's like a pig picking, right?
Speaker A:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker A:Bring your own pliers.
Speaker A:You know, you can do it.
Speaker A:If Adrian Miller has a fantasy day where you don't have to work, you don't have to write, you don't have to do interviews like this, what does that day contain for you?
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker B:Oh, that is a real curveball question.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:You know what?
Speaker B:And I don't have to work any.
Speaker B:I think it would be fun to just roast my whole.
Speaker B:My first whole hog.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Go through that experience and fantasy wise, if I could do it the old school way, like over a pit.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, I would love to do that.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:If.
Speaker A:Oh, let me rephrase that.
Speaker A:What do you miss the most about your 20s?
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:You know what I missed?
Speaker B:The fact in my 20s I went out to nightclubs a lot and danced, and I don't really do that anymore, so I think I missed that the most.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:The second thing would be my weight.
Speaker B:I missed that.
Speaker A:I'm with you there.
Speaker C:A lot of people say that.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, just being part of the nightclub scene in Denver, it was fun.
Speaker B:There were some fun clubs.
Speaker B:And there was one club in particular that I loved.
Speaker B:It was a place that they had three different dance floors and they were.
Speaker B:They would play only the music of a certain decade.
Speaker B:So there was a 70s floor, there was an 80s floor, and there was a 90s floor.
Speaker B:And I just love that.
Speaker C:That's cool.
Speaker A:We had one of those when I lived in Scottsdale that.
Speaker A:Three different rooms, if you will.
Speaker A:And yeah, you could go dance to the current stuff, the older stuff or whatever.
Speaker A:Those were always quite fun.
Speaker A:The one thing I miss about my twenties is not taking five minutes to get everything aligned.
Speaker A:So I get out of bed and walk down the hall.
Speaker A:On a scale of 1 to 10, Adrian, what do you.
Speaker A:How much barbecue do you eat on a Regular basis.
Speaker B:Oh, you know, really, it's only, like, three.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I don't really eat barbecue that much, and so it really.
Speaker B:It's kind of focused.
Speaker B:Like, when I travel, especially if I'm going to a barbecue town, then it's like, binge.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:But I would say on a typical week, you know, I probably have barbecue once or twice, tops.
Speaker B:Part of that is just trying to maintain my weight and be a little bit healthy.
Speaker B:Because barbecue is celebration food.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, so.
Speaker B:Yeah, so probably once or twice a week, tops.
Speaker B:But it's really more like once.
Speaker A:Okay, so if you could ask any question in the world you wanted of Leanne, what would that question be?
Speaker C:This is a new question.
Speaker A:Yeah, you told me I had to get some new ones.
Speaker B:Okay, so who in the barbecue game is inspiring you right now?
Speaker A:Besides.
Speaker C:Well, you know, I have to go old school because, you know, I'm a huge fan of Myron and Tuffy and Melissa Cookston.
Speaker C:I am intrigued about these kids.
Speaker C:The kids are diving into it, and they aren't just copycatting.
Speaker C:It seems like they're being creative in their own right.
Speaker C:So I have my eye on the kids right now.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Any particular kid?
Speaker C:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker C:I feel so bad that I forget his name.
Speaker C:He was out at the Royal.
Speaker C:He's going to be at the national barbecue convention.
Speaker C:Oh, gosh.
Speaker C:It's not Clayton.
Speaker C:Oh, I feel bad.
Speaker C:I forget his name at the moment because you asked me.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I. I like watching them and to see what they're doing.
Speaker C:But, yeah, I'm kind of old school and, you know, growing up with those people, and I still respect them, and I respect everything that they're doing now, and they're still evolving, teaching, you know, creating business, and I love it.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker C:Cool.
Speaker A:Adrian, if we could put your skills to music, what would the music be?
Speaker B:Let's see, what is a good nerdy song?
Speaker B:Oh, blinded me with science.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:And then everything else would be bust a move by Young mc.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:You remember that song?
Speaker A:Yes, I do not.
Speaker B:Well, all the fellas try to do what those ladies tell us.
Speaker B:Get shot because you're overzealous.
Speaker B:Play hard to get females get jealous.
Speaker B:You don't remember this one?
Speaker C:My loss.
Speaker C:Because it's good and you know all the words.
Speaker C:That's great.
Speaker A:Maybe this answer will come from your nightclub days.
Speaker A:If you could erase one mistake from your past, what would it be?
Speaker A:Oh, wow,
Speaker B:Man, that is a good one.
Speaker B:You got me stumped on that one.
Speaker B:There's so many to choose from.
Speaker B:Let's see.
Speaker B:I think I would have liked to have been more to.
Speaker B:Been kinder to my siblings in high school and not fight so much.
Speaker A:Takes a while.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Just be more collaborative.
Speaker B:I have a great relationship with all my siblings now, but I just wish back then I'd been more collaborative with them.
Speaker A:My problem, especially in high school, was I was the baby.
Speaker A:Oh.
Speaker A:I am still baby of the family.
Speaker B:Oh, and everything you wanted, right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, you get to high school and my brother and sister, who were much closer in age, went through school obviously before I did, but usually the teachers were relatively new when they went through.
Speaker A:And so by the time I came along, you know, 14 years later, they were pretty battle hardened.
Speaker A:And as soon as they saw my last name and they were like, are you Terry's little brother?
Speaker A:You know, that type of thing, I was like, oh, yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, okay.
Speaker A:You sit over there.
Speaker B:Oh, that's so messed up.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Oh, I found.
Speaker C:I found the, the.
Speaker C:The kid's name who I was talking about.
Speaker C:Kaden Blake.
Speaker B:Hayden Blake.
Speaker B:And that was a C or K,
Speaker C:the first name, K, A, I, D, E, N. Blake.
Speaker C:And he competed out in the kids competition out in Kansas City.
Speaker C:And he actually, I think has a sausage coming out now.
Speaker C:He's just all over it and he's fun.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:Yes, that would be him.
Speaker A:How old is he, roughly?
Speaker C:I would say he's 15ish.
Speaker C:Somewhere around there, if I had to guess.
Speaker A:Good for him.
Speaker A:Yeah, maybe we'll have to get him on the show one of these days.
Speaker C:Yeah, that would be fun.
Speaker C:Well, I'm going to see him out at the convention next week and ask you, Orlando, so.
Speaker C:And I'm going to try a sausage, too.
Speaker C:So exciting.
Speaker A:Adrian, if you were an animal, what animal would you be and why?
Speaker B:I would be.
Speaker B:Huh?
Speaker B:Well, I wanted.
Speaker B:I wanted to say an owl, because owls, you know, you think of owls as smart and I'm very much into intellect and stuff, but I'm not nocturnal, so that doesn't work.
Speaker C:Hmm.
Speaker B:Man, this is a great question.
Speaker B:Let's see.
Speaker B:If I was an animal, what's a smart.
Speaker B:Oh, a porpoise.
Speaker A:Yeah, they're very bright.
Speaker A:Yeah, they're very bright.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Have you ever eaten haggis?
Speaker B:I have not.
Speaker B:I know what it is, but I've never had it.
Speaker A:Yeah, you can just kind of keep on walking when you're out.
Speaker B:No, I like all that funky stuff, man.
Speaker B:I would try it.
Speaker A:Well, I tried it and I grew up on a farm and we did not waste anything.
Speaker A:You Know, we had the tongue and the heart and the whole deal, but I'll just leave that up to you when you.
Speaker A:When that comes into your life.
Speaker A:But don't call me and say, hey, I screwed up.
Speaker A:I shouldn't have, and I did, and this was the result.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:So definitely calling you.
Speaker B:So, yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker C:All right.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Would you describe yourself as corn fed or grass fed?
Speaker A:I'm a corn fed.
Speaker A:I admit it.
Speaker B:I'm definitely corn fed.
Speaker A:Boxers or briefs?
Speaker B:Oh, boxers.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Okay, we'll wrap this up here.
Speaker A:If you could give one piece of advice to people as far as life or their barbecue or doesn't matter, any subject matter.
Speaker A:But coming from the heart, what would Adrian Miller put out there as advice to people?
Speaker B:I would tell people to share your dreams.
Speaker B:A lot of times we keep things close to the vest because we don't want people to steal them or laugh at them.
Speaker B:A lot of laugh at us because of our dreams.
Speaker B:But I can't tell you how many wonderful things have happened for me because I shared my dreams, and people resonate with that.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They like seeing dreamers, and they like seeing people going after something, and they love seeing somebody achieve it.
Speaker B:I mean, I can't tell you how many people, after I wrote my first book, they.
Speaker B:They circled back to me and said, you know what, man?
Speaker B:We're really proud of you, because so many people talk.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And you actually followed through and did it.
Speaker B:And some would say, you know, I thought you were crazy, or, you know, I just didn't think that much of you for doing this.
Speaker B:But I see now what you've accomplished in the life you have built for yourself.
Speaker B:And so I just tell people to share your dreams because so many of us are told not to do that because somebody will steal it.
Speaker B:And, you know, that stuff happens.
Speaker B:I'm not.
Speaker B:I'm not that right.
Speaker B:But you have to.
Speaker B:I think you have to have a confidence that only you can bring the dream that you have into reality, bringing it to fruition.
Speaker B:Because we all bring something to.
Speaker B:To the goal.
Speaker B:The dreams that we have that somebody else cannot, can't copy.
Speaker B:And, you know, I think the corollary is this idea of wok presence in Asian cultures that, you know, when you make a dish, you bring something to that dish.
Speaker B:You may have the same recipe, but, you know, somebody else may make it and it may turn out a little differently because of experience and other things they.
Speaker B:You bring to that.
Speaker B:So just have the confidence that you're the one who can fulfill your dreams.
Speaker B:But Share them for sure.
Speaker A:Adrian, if people want to find you, look at your work, check out your website, maybe book you for a conference or whatever.
Speaker A:How can they do that?
Speaker B:So I'm the Soul Food Scholar on most platforms.
Speaker B:My tagline is dropping knowledge like hot biscuits.
Speaker B:I hope we did that today so you can find me on, you know, any social media, Soul food scholar or soul foodscholar.com.
Speaker B:adrian Emiller and soulfoodscholar.com go to the same place and you can find me there.
Speaker A:Excellent.
Speaker A:I really want to thank you for taking the time to be here.
Speaker C:Thank you so much.
Speaker A:Good luck in all your travels and we'll see if we can't get Leanne to give you some cooking help.
Speaker C:Yeah, maybe I'll come out to Denver.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:You need to see a part of Denver besides Highlands Ranch in downtown.
Speaker C:Yeah, it is.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:Highlands Ranch is pretty, but it's kind of out there a little bit.
Speaker C:I really didn't get out of my house much, so I really shouldn't be so critical.
Speaker C:Oh, yes.
Speaker B:Okay, now me.
Speaker C:Show me around and.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, brother will show you a good time.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:The truth comes out eventually.
Speaker B:See?
Speaker B:See what happens when you just stick with it?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's going to wrap it up for us this week on After Hours here on Barbecue Nation.
Speaker A:Again, we'd like to thank Adrian Miller for taking time to be with us.
Speaker A:And also Ms. Leanne Whippen.
Speaker A:Don't forget her pig powder.
Speaker A:And I'm JT and we will be back next week.
Speaker A:And remember our motto, turn it, don't burn it.
Speaker A:Take care, everybod.
