Shownotes
This episode features a comprehensive examination of the evolving landscape of professional golf, with a particular focus on the contrasting trajectories of the PGA Tour and the LPGA. Prominent among the discussions is the analysis of key figures such as Scottie Scheffler and Rory McIlroy, whose performances have defined the men's game in recent years, and the implications of their successes on the sport’s overall popularity. Additionally, the dialogue delves into the significance of the LPGA's newly announced live broadcasting of all its events, a pivotal shift that underscores the growing recognition of women's golf. We engage with Whit Watson, a seasoned commentator, to reflect on the year’s most salient storylines and to explore the future of golf in light of recent developments. Ultimately, this episode serves to illuminate the intricate dynamics that shape the golfing world, providing insights into both the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead for golfers and fans alike.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Golf News Network
- Birdie Ball
- Sports Illustrated
- Golf Channel
- iHeart
- FM
- LPGA
- PGA
- Symmetra Tour
- Snell Golf
- Squares
- Painted Hills
- Westin Kia
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
It's time for Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:Join Jeff Tracy as he explores a golfing lifestyle and tries to keep it in the short grass for the hackers, new sweepers and turf spankers.
Speaker A:Here's Jeff.
Speaker B:Everybody.
Speaker B:Welcome to Grilling.
Speaker B:It's Green.
Speaker B:I'm jt.
Speaker B:We are a proud part of the Golf News Network as well as in stations in Portland and Seattle and, oh, gosh, Texas, and parts in between.
Speaker B:How's your golf game?
Speaker B:Well, you probably, if it's winter like it is here, you probably don't have much of one right now because Noah's Ark is going to pull up in my backyard here just momentarily.
Speaker B:I want to thank the folks at Birdie Ball.
Speaker B:They have some great practice putting greens.
Speaker B:I think Sports Illustrated even gave them an award for their for their putting greens.
Speaker B:And also get a dozen little birdie balls to practice in your backyard.
Speaker B:Well, I asked my friend Whit Watson to come back and review the year with us, and he graciously accepted.
Speaker B:I always enjoy having Whit on the show.
Speaker B:And if you haven't caught it, he's got a podcast called Media Credentials, but he also does a regular radio show down in florida on iHeart.
Speaker B:He's always busy.
Speaker B:So anyway.
Speaker B:And you're still doing the Golf Channel, right?
Speaker C:On a freelance basis.
Speaker C:I get called up there once in a while to fill in in the studio in Stanford.
Speaker C:And they've, I think they're dark now for December.
Speaker C:They're probably in reruns, although the Grant Thornton event is coming up this week.
Speaker C:So they'll be probably taking a couple of weeks off in December.
Speaker C:Usually this is about the time they take a break.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is actually my last golf show for the year.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because I like to shut it down and give myself about two weeks, two and a half weeks through the holidays and help out where I can around here and also enjoy the time of year.
Speaker B:Anyway, I got, I skipped this part.
Speaker B:Welcome to the show.
Speaker B:Go.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So you pay attention to golf, you pay attention to a lot of sports, but you pay attention to golf.
Speaker B:Give us the thumbnail, Whit Watson's thumbnail of the year, and then we'll get into specific scenarios as we go through the show.
Speaker C:Three main storylines.
Speaker C:As I was getting ready to come on with you, it's the year of Two Men and One event, the Two Men.
Speaker C:And then I'll get to the women's game.
Speaker C:Secondly, not to put the men over the women by any stretch, it's the year of on the men's side, Scottie scheffler and Rory McIlroy.
Speaker C:Rory getting his green jacket and Scheffler continuing his relentless pursuit of excellence week after week.
Speaker C:And the event is the Ryder Cup.
Speaker C:And I did a deep dive for the Florida radio show after the Ryder cup into the process surrounding Keegan Bradley as the captain and whether that was really a service to him or not and whether it was a service to the Ryder cup or not.
Speaker C:And how the US side, the PGA of America, can correct the process going forward two years from now on the women's side.
Speaker C:This was just recently announced that next year all of the LPGA PGA events are going to be televised live.
Speaker C:There's not going to be any tape delay in coverage.
Speaker C: this, but I can't believe in: Speaker C:I can't believe that the LPGA is just now finding people who appreciate the product enough that it makes news that they're televising all of their events live and not having to put it on tape or maybe not or push it to streaming on certain weeks.
Speaker C:They found a sponsor in FM who is helping to supplement the coverage to make sure that we get to see those events live.
Speaker C: , that we're at that stage in: Speaker C: o what my takeaways were from: Speaker B:Well, the LPGA deal is like, what's the old thing?
Speaker B:They do go like that.
Speaker B:Yeah, you know, I just, of course I've.
Speaker B:We have a very infamous tournament here in Portland.
Speaker B:You've been here like that.
Speaker B:Great tournament, great reception for the community and all that stuff.
Speaker B:And it always irritated me, to be honest, that I would come home in another way.
Speaker B:I always enjoyed it to watch the final round.
Speaker B:If I was out at the course covering it and we already did the winners pictures and all that stuff, I could come home and then watch the round and it's like.
Speaker B:And you look at the clock and that would be.
Speaker B:Not to get off in the weeds here, Whit.
Speaker B:But that would be 6, 7 o' clock on a Sunday night.
Speaker B:That's 10 o' clock on the.
Speaker B:They have four viewers back there because people are going to bed, they got to go to work the next day, what have you.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:And I just never really understood that because I think they have a great product.
Speaker B:No, they don't hit it as far as Scotty and Rory in that.
Speaker B:But if you've ever actually been to a tournament, an LPGA tournament.
Speaker B:They're very precise.
Speaker B:They're very exacting.
Speaker B:They have great scores.
Speaker B:They're very approachable and amiable players.
Speaker B:They've got so much going for them.
Speaker B:And I.
Speaker B:On one hand, I'm really grateful that they're now getting the coverage that they deserve.
Speaker B:On the other hand, my thought is, what the hell took so long?
Speaker C:Yeah, they took a great step forward when Mike Wan was the commissioner.
Speaker C:And I think you and I have probably talked about this on your show before.
Speaker C:I'm a huge fan of Mike Wan.
Speaker C:Yeah, I got the chance to know him a little bit when I was broadcasting LPGA events, and he was a big advocate on my behalf in moving up on the LPGA coverage.
Speaker C:I thought they.
Speaker C:He was the one that understood more than any commissioner that I ever got the chance to meet, how to open up the LPGA players to the public and vice versa.
Speaker C:How to expose the public to the personalities of the players and make the players understand that if you sell yourself a little bit, if you open the door, if you pull the curtain back, they.
Speaker C:They, the public, will appreciate who you are and what you do, and it's going to pay off for all of you.
Speaker C:A rising tide lifts all boats, right?
Speaker C:And when he left for another position, I felt like some of that momentum left with him.
Speaker C:Not to knock anybody that followed him, but he was just such a natural salesperson and such an engaging personality.
Speaker C:I felt like the LPGA took on his personality when he was there.
Speaker C:And for whatever reason, they've not been able to recapture that momentum.
Speaker C:And it's a shame, because women's sports in general, as we know, are enjoying this rocket rise right now.
Speaker C:I mean, they can't sell tickets to the National Women's Soccer League fast enough.
Speaker C:The wnba, largely because of the Caitlin Clark effect, is just.
Speaker C:Is seeing numbers they've never seen before.
Speaker C:And I feel like this is the time for the LPGA to be a part of that.
Speaker C:And I've had numerous guests.
Speaker C:I've had Sarah Kellum, who's the.
Speaker C:The social media manager for the lpga.
Speaker C:She's been a guest on the radio show.
Speaker C:Lisa Cornwell, who used to be my colleague at Golf Channel, who follows the women's game very closely.
Speaker C:She's been a guest on the show, and we all say the same thing.
Speaker C:What do we need to do to grab onto that coattail to get people as excited about the women's game as they are about women's basketball or women's soccer?
Speaker C:I'm not smart enough to have an answer to that.
Speaker C:I wish that that someone did, but the game is just as good.
Speaker C:I think one thing that hurt them a little bit this year was that Nelly Corda was on the verge of being Caitlin Clark last year when she had that incredible run of six wins with a major and, you know, five in a row at one point.
Speaker C:And then this year didn't win.
Speaker C:And Gino Tidikun had a phenomenal year.
Speaker C:But right, wrong or indifferent, American audiences tend to look for American players who are doing well.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:She wasn't as well known to the American audience, even though she's a great player and she had a great year.
Speaker C:But that didn't ring as well with a U.S. audience.
Speaker C:And I think it kind of got lost in the shuffle with everything else, with all of the other options we have to watch.
Speaker C: Nelly's incredible season in: Speaker C:So hopefully there are smarter people out there than me that can figure out what the next big step is.
Speaker C:They have a change in leadership as well.
Speaker C:It's brand new and, you know, much like the PGA with Brian Roll up, everyone's still learning their new job.
Speaker C:They're still figuring out how to get their voicemail set up in the office.
Speaker C: ip the LPGA comes up with for: Speaker C:Those two tours, the PGA Tour and the LPGA, have a marketing agreement.
Speaker C:They're tied together in terms of how they market.
Speaker C:So maybe those two could help each other.
Speaker C:They're friends.
Speaker C:They know each other, the two commissioners, the CEO and the commissioner of the lpga.
Speaker C:So who knows?
Speaker C:Maybe there's something brewing as we speak.
Speaker C:But I think 26 is.
Speaker C:Is poised to be a pretty pivotal year for both those tours.
Speaker B:I think so, too.
Speaker B:We're going to take a quick break.
Speaker B:We're going to be back with Whit Watson from Media Credentials.
Speaker B:You know, I'm from Golf Channel from.
Speaker B:He covers everything, so I'll just leave it at that.
Speaker B:Whit and I'll be back in just a moment.
Speaker B:Don't go away.
Speaker D:Hey, everybody.
Speaker D:J.T.
Speaker C:Here.
Speaker D:If you need something to practice with in the inclement weather, try birdie ball.
Speaker D:Go to birdieball.com check out the actual birdie balls, their packages, their putting greens, which I happen to have a couple of those, and they work great.
Speaker D:Birdieball.com.
Speaker C:Foreign.
Speaker B:Welcome back to Girling.
Speaker B:It's Green.
Speaker B:I'm JT Today, we're very fortunate to have my friend Whit Watson from Media Credentials, if you haven't caught his podcast, go out there.
Speaker B:He's not a podcast warrior like I am, and clicks out a bunch of them because he puts a lot of effort into his podcast and his they're presented well.
Speaker B:The questions are thoughtful and direct and I really appreciate that about him, besides being a good guy.
Speaker B:Also, we want to thank the folks at Snell Golf.
Speaker B:Try their, try some.
Speaker B:They have a box of golf balls called Trisom, which is kind of a mixture of their high end and low end golf balls.
Speaker B:Still coming up to Christmas as you see behind me here.
Speaker B:So go to snellgolf.com Anyway, we were talking about the LPGA and I wanted to go on a little bit about Nellie.
Speaker B:She had some physical problems this year.
Speaker B:She had, I think she had neck surgery or something.
Speaker B:She had a couple of things like that.
Speaker B:I would, I watched the last couple tournaments and I know we'll see her at the Thornton, I think.
Speaker B:But I would expect her 20, 26 season to really be something if she's following the path that she's trying to get back on.
Speaker B:That's my estimation there.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And life happens.
Speaker C:You know, she got engaged.
Speaker C:I mean, we all, we get older and life happens and everybody's got a life away from the golf course.
Speaker C:She did have physical problems and hopefully we get to see her back at the level that we know she can, she can achieve again.
Speaker C:I'd like to, to see.
Speaker C:You're never going to replicate the season she had last year.
Speaker C:I don't think you can ever expect her to be back at that level, although we say that about Scheffler and he comes out and does it again.
Speaker C:So you never know.
Speaker C:Maybe she can, I mean, she has proven to be that good of a player and I don't think you need to have let me back that up.
Speaker C:The LPGA when it garners its greatest excitement, generally speaking, in my career it's been when there's been a dominant player, when a Yanni Sen or a Sari park or a player, a Lorena Ochoa, when there's a great player having just doing incredible things, that tends to be when fans flock to the Tour.
Speaker C:So maybe for the sake of interest, if not for the sake of competition, it would be good for the LPGA to have a Nelly come back roaring in 26 and start picking off some wins and being competitive in majors and.
Speaker C:But I, I tend to agree with you.
Speaker C:I think that if she's healthy and has, you know, that behind her and kind of has herself centered and has herself back mentally.
Speaker C:She's certainly capable of having a competitive year.
Speaker C:I was stunned that she went through the entire year they went through.
Speaker C:I think it was.
Speaker C:It was a record number of weeks in a row without a repeat winner until somebody finally won twice.
Speaker C:It was a very competitive season.
Speaker C:If you're a golf nerd like us, you love to see it.
Speaker C:But that is a hard thing to sell to the general public.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Is that you've.
Speaker C:You've got players that the general public may not know, a new name every week that you may not have heard of, and that can be tough to present to market.
Speaker C:So maybe Anelli Cordo winning once or twice or three times in 26 would be a good thing for the general public.
Speaker B:Well, I think Tiger spoiled us, sure.
Speaker C:You know, and Scotty has spoiled us.
Speaker B:And Scotty is spoiling us.
Speaker B:And we still cheer for Rory, except he's kind of hit and miss at times and, you know, got a lot going on and that type of thing, so.
Speaker B:And I was going to say with that, My personal thought is that it seems to me the ladies on the.
Speaker B:The LPGA Tour almost have a little more life centered.
Speaker B:Lexi's gonna get married.
Speaker B:Nelly's engaged.
Speaker B:You see them kind of retire.
Speaker B:Carolyn Inglis, who's from my neck of the woods here, she just got off tour, and she went to work for the Oregon Golf association just recently.
Speaker B:You see that?
Speaker B:And they seem to be more like, yeah, there is a life off the course.
Speaker B:You know, there's other careers off the course like that.
Speaker B:And so the guys, they kind of, they, you know, they make the big tour, they bounce back to the Korn Ferry Tour.
Speaker B:They qualify, they come back, or they get an invitation to play on the big tour, and they kind of lurk around for like, 25 years, you know, And I think.
Speaker B:I think the women golfers are a little more centered on their life when it's just my opinion, so.
Speaker C:And the female athletes, when they say when they make a decision about having a family, that's a much bigger decision than a male athlete deciding to have a family.
Speaker C:You know, deciding to have a child, that's a huge physical decision.
Speaker C:And coming back from a pregnancy is no small feat.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker C:Especially as an athlete, that's a huge decision to make, and it's been done.
Speaker C:I mean, Julie Inkster had a hell of a career after having children.
Speaker C:Many lpg, many LPGA athletes have done it, but it's not a guarantee.
Speaker C:And especially if you want to do it at a young enough age where you can enjoy a career after having children, as Julie did.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's a big decision.
Speaker C:So, yeah, it's.
Speaker C:It's tougher to have a longer career on the lpga, especially if you want to have a family, than it is for the guys.
Speaker C:And so the decision to get married, to get engaged and you have one, I mean, that's one reason.
Speaker C:That was the major reason why Lorena decided to retire as early as she did.
Speaker C:She cited the desire to have a family and she wanted to live a, quote, normal life and left arguably at the peak of her physical prowess because she wanted to have a family.
Speaker B:And you look at Stacey Lewis, too.
Speaker C:Stacy Lewis, and that's a decision that the men don't have to make.
Speaker C:They can, quote, have a family and keep playing.
Speaker C:And I certainly don't envy an athlete at the top of her game having to make that kind of decision.
Speaker B:No, no.
Speaker B:I will tell you a couple funny things I've seen, though, because we used to have a big Korn ferry tour event here and most of those guys travel with their wives.
Speaker B:They're not flying first class or private jets on that.
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:They got minivans and stuff.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And so they've got their wife, maybe one or two small children.
Speaker B:And as soon as the guy gets done with his round and they come in and go locker room and gets cleaned up, comes out, the wife hands him the kid.
Speaker B:I've seen that 100 times.
Speaker B:And it's always kind of like, you know, he's tired and all that, but he can't say no.
Speaker B:You know, he's.
Speaker B:He's got the baby in his arms and one in the stroller and off they go to Denny's, you know, type.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's always.
Speaker B:It's always kind of a really cute thing.
Speaker B:Hey, Whit and I are going to take another break here on grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:Please stay with us.
Speaker B:We hope you're enjoying the show.
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Speaker B:You won't regret it.
Speaker B:Welcome back to Girl Ant 3.9Jt.
Speaker B:Last week I had Gary Van Sickle on, who is never at a loss for words.
Speaker B:I've known Gary for a long time.
Speaker B:I'm sure you've known him.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:It's always Gary's world.
Speaker B:And I really like him.
Speaker B:I have a lot of fun with him.
Speaker B:But let's go and.
Speaker B:We talk a lot, of course, about the, the big tour and stuff, but I wanted to get back and talk about the PGA Tour as you were talking about Scotty.
Speaker B:He's like, I don't think people really know how to read him because he's not this really overly effervescent flying off the wall with comments like, like Rory can do sometimes, you know, and we see other players do it.
Speaker B:But with, with Scotty, he's just kind of.
Speaker B:I don't want to call him mundane because he's not.
Speaker B:He's very cerebral, if you will, about a lot of things.
Speaker B:And I think he brings that to his game, too.
Speaker B:You know, he's very methodical.
Speaker B:He's like, I need to put this in from 270 yards with a wedge to, you know, two feet.
Speaker B:And he'll do it, you know, and then you've got the Rory component.
Speaker B:And Rory is more flamboyant, certainly never taking anything away from his game because he's got.
Speaker B:He's got the game, but two completely different personalities at the top of that, that leaderboard, as it were.
Speaker C:And McElroy is not afraid to speak his mind, particularly when it comes to issues off the golf course.
Speaker C:He was front and center when Liv came to be and when the, you know, live and the PGA Tour and all of that began to play out publicly.
Speaker C:McElroy willingly or unwillingly became the face, the voice, the conscience of the PGA Tour and.
Speaker C:And was willing to speak his mind as to how he thought things should go.
Speaker C:Scheffler didn't take much of a public stance on it other than to say, I'm sticking with the PGA Tour.
Speaker C:He wasn't terribly vocal about it.
Speaker C:I think McElroy pulled back quite a bit when the framework agreement was announced a couple of years ago.
Speaker C:He may have felt a little bit like the rug had been pulled out from under him because he had been such a public advocate on behalf of the Tour.
Speaker C:But once he had the green jacket, I think you saw his shoulders drop.
Speaker C:I think that he had a lot.
Speaker C:I don't think.
Speaker C:I think we all know there was a lot of tension built up in him chasing that career Grand Slam and all of the scar tissue that had built up at Augusta national over the years, all of the questions that had been asked and the pressure, not just here, but globally, that, you know, this was the one thing that had eluded him.
Speaker C:This is the one career capper that he had not yet achieved.
Speaker C:And what you saw from him at Augusta when he just fell to his knees and just.
Speaker C:Just the primal scream that came out of him when he finally had done it.
Speaker C:That and then winning a Ryder cup on US Soil at Bethpage Black.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think now he feels like he's playing with house money for the rest of his life.
Speaker C:I don't think.
Speaker C:I think you're going to see a very different Rory McIlroy from this point forward, because now he's bulletproof.
Speaker C:I don't think anything is going to bother him for the rest of his golfing career.
Speaker C:I think he's got everything he needs, everything he wants, and he can just play free.
Speaker C:And he's even said recently he's looking forward to going out and playing these events that he's always wanted to play.
Speaker C:I believe he just played the Indian Open, and he's like, I've always wanted to play in India, and why not?
Speaker C:I can just go do whatever I want now.
Speaker C:I mean, he's.
Speaker C:You know, he's.
Speaker C:He gets to go play in Australia, play in India.
Speaker C:I like playing National Opens, he said, because it's a chance to go see a place I haven't seen.
Speaker C:He knows that it's a treat for that country, for those fans, for that golf association to have him.
Speaker C:It's a big deal.
Speaker C:They sell more tickets when he shows up.
Speaker C:He's kind of taking on that role.
Speaker C:He's still a competitive player, but.
Speaker C:But he is entering that phase of his career where he understands who he is.
Speaker C:He understands what it means to the venue and to the fans for him to be there, and that.
Speaker C:That's a man in full.
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker C:That's a man who understands, okay, I can take a breath.
Speaker C:I don't need to prove anything to anybody anymore.
Speaker C:I can do what I want to do, and I'm happy for him.
Speaker C:I think.
Speaker C:I think there's a huge load off of his shoulders now.
Speaker C:He's.
Speaker C:You're going to see a different McElroy.
Speaker B:Well, I think you're right, Whit.
Speaker B:Especially at Augusta, when he was down on his knees and he was screaming, and it was almost like, excuse me, watching it.
Speaker B:You could almost see something leave out of his.
Speaker B:You know, like that.
Speaker C:I agree.
Speaker B:You know, it was like, wow, because.
Speaker C:It'S coming off of his back.
Speaker B:Just coming off his back.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And you were very polite about it.
Speaker B:But I think the Tour kind of hung him out to dry on the live deal.
Speaker B:Regardless of whether you like live or not.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They trotted Rory out there, and I think he willingly went out to support the Tour.
Speaker B:And then all of a sudden, the framework agreement came up, other things were coming up, and he's like, why did I just spend two years, you know, out there being your champion?
Speaker B:And then you cut me off at the knees here?
Speaker C:That's.
Speaker B:That's my take.
Speaker B:But I live thousands of miles away, so.
Speaker C:And none of us are in the room when it happens.
Speaker C:But I do agree with you.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:And I don't know that.
Speaker C:I mean, we don't know who talked to whom when.
Speaker C:We don't know who was consulted.
Speaker C: 's been a while now, that was: Speaker C:But it seemed like a lot of the PGA Tour players were caught by surprise.
Speaker C:I don't think many of them, if any of them, were consulted before that announcement happened on live television.
Speaker C:And there was a pretty strong reaction from a lot of the players.
Speaker C:Where were we on this?
Speaker C:You know, why didn't you come to us about this?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:And by the way, to get off onto a sidebar, we're no closer to a resolution.
Speaker C:PGA Tour has a schedule for 26.
Speaker C:Live is adding events for 26.
Speaker C:They're signing players.
Speaker C:A lot of the contracts from the original players who jumped are now coming up, which is going to be interesting to see what happens.
Speaker C:Live is also under new leadership, with Greg Norman out of the picture.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:I'm interested to see what they decide to do with some of these expiring contracts.
Speaker C:You may see some players try to come back to the PGA Tour now that they've made their money.
Speaker C:I don't know how much longer Dustin Johnson is going to play golf.
Speaker C:I don't know how much longer Bryson DeChambeau is going to want to stay with Live.
Speaker C:He might be enjoying it, but he might want to come back.
Speaker C:You know, who knows?
Speaker C:No.
Speaker C:No one knows.
Speaker B:I think he wants to come back.
Speaker C:I I, I think John Rom may want to come back.
Speaker C:I think Ron may be regretting that decision right now.
Speaker C:I think there's, you may see some potential movement between those two tours because some of the guys who, who went more recently, like Rom, I think they did so because they believed there was going to be a resolution.
Speaker C:They believed there was going to be a fix sooner rather than later and thought, well, I can still play the majors and then go off and make a lot of money, play some interesting venues and not play as much golf, which they all kind of hope for, and thought, well, I'll just do this and you know, we're going to get back together anyway.
Speaker C:Now they see, oh wait, this is not going to happen.
Speaker C:I think there's, this is a pretty pivotal year coming up.
Speaker C:And, and with Brian Rolap, the new CEO of the Tour, saying, using words like scarcity and talking about potentially reducing the PGA Tour's schedule, shrinking opportunities for players, this, things are going to start happening.
Speaker C:I think you're going to see some pretty seismic shifts in what we're used to in terms of the PGA Tour starting in 26, but especially in 27, as some of the current sponsorship deals expire for tournaments.
Speaker C:I think you're going to see movement, movement from live back to the PGA Tour once a pathway is figured out, which we don't have yet.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And the other thing is, and I think Brian can handle this if anybody could.
Speaker B:I honestly don't think Jay Monahan, he wasn't in this kind of guy.
Speaker B:But the investors, yes, venture capitalists, if you will, in the Tour, they want a return on their money.
Speaker B:The Saudis aren't.
Speaker B:They don't care about the return because they just print money every day.
Speaker B:You know, they dig it out of the sand.
Speaker B:But the investment bankers and stuff, they're a different cut of the cloth.
Speaker B:And you know, it sounded good up front to get a $2 billion commitment or whatever the actual figure was, but they don't do that because they're nice guys.
Speaker B:You know, they may love the sport and like to get involved.
Speaker B:They always like to get involved in whatever they invest in at the highest level.
Speaker B:But they also, at the end of the day, are looking at the spreadsheet at the bottom and, and excuse me, that comes due faster than, you know.
Speaker C:You don't commit one and a half billion dollars with a promise of one and a half billion more for fun, for your.
Speaker C:To your point, they, they expect a return.
Speaker C:They expect to make money on whatever this new business is going to be and when you bring in an NFL executive who the NFL works because of scarcity.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:You've got, if you're an NFL fan in an NFL city, you have eight chances a year to see your team in person.
Speaker C:That's it.
Speaker C:And really, it's the one league because you play eight home games a year, 17 games total.
Speaker C:They don't care about ticket sales.
Speaker C:They don't care about filling the stadium.
Speaker C:That league is predicated on media rights.
Speaker C:That's where they make their money.
Speaker C:And we're talking about billions of dollars.
Speaker C:And that's why they keep subdividing the media rights to more and more partners.
Speaker C:That's why there's games on Amazon and Netflix.
Speaker C:The more people they can sell those rights to, the more money they make.
Speaker C:You've just brought in a guy who's been operating under that business model for most of his career to run the PGA Tour.
Speaker C:So what do you think is going to happen next?
Speaker C:Fewer events to more media partners to compel people to watch it on tv, watch it on streaming.
Speaker C:That's where it's going to go.
Speaker C:That is absolutely where it's going to go.
Speaker C:And so if you're a. I don't know, in Florida, for example, the Florida swing, the event in Palm Beach, I'd be concerned.
Speaker C:The event in Tampa, Valspar might be, you might be concerned about, you know, looking over your shoulder.
Speaker C:The west coast swing.
Speaker C:They're making noise now about the latest rumor.
Speaker C:I was one of the players who brought this up in a press conference unprovoked.
Speaker C:They're talking about maybe not starting the PGA Tour season until after the Super Bowl.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:What does that mean for the west coast swing?
Speaker B:Well, Hawaii.
Speaker B:They took Hawaii out of.
Speaker C:Why?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:Which is fun to watch on tv, but it doesn't make a lot of money and it's not terribly well attended.
Speaker C:It's hard to get to for the players and the fans.
Speaker C:So, you know, that's, that's the model that Brian Rolap comes from.
Speaker C:And, you know, the, the traditions of the tour that you and I are accustomed to, they don't really matter to a group of investors who, to your point, have committed $3 billion to an entertainment product that they expect to make money on.
Speaker C:And there's little things that are happening.
Speaker C:I'll tell you a quick story.
Speaker C:And it is now public news, but I actually knew about it before it happened.
Speaker C:The Korn Ferry Tour Championship has been played for the last couple of years at the French Lick resort in Indiana.
Speaker C:This year, it just happened a few Weeks ago, Brian Rolap attended the Tour Championship.
Speaker C:Everybody had a great time.
Speaker C:He met the French Lick people for the first time.
Speaker C:Their marketing people, management executives.
Speaker C:Great to meet you.
Speaker C:Things are looking wonderful.
Speaker C:Can't wait to work with you.
Speaker C:About two days after the final round, it was announced they had a contract, by the way, that would have kept it there for a couple more years past.
Speaker C:This year, about two days after the final round, they announced they're pulling it out of French Lick and they're sending it to Virginia to satisfy another sponsor who already existed for the PGA Tour that was attached to the PGA Tour Champions.
Speaker C:They just pulled it.
Speaker C:It's, it's a business.
Speaker C:Yeah, the, the contracts are flexible.
Speaker C:So he, they're going to position themselves to make money for their investors, whatever that means.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:And I say that because people who are worried about what do you do with the existing sponsors of tournaments.
Speaker C:They'll figure it out.
Speaker C:They'll, they'll make good somehow.
Speaker C:So that's the schedule is, is going to change.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:We're going to take another break.
Speaker B:Whit and I'll be back here on grilling at the Green in just a minute.
Speaker B:Don't go away.
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Speaker B:Welcome back to grilling at the Green.
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Speaker B:Talking with Whit Watson from Media Credential Golf Channel, iHeart Sports, ESPN.
Speaker B:I mean his career is exemplary.
Speaker B:One of the things you talked about the sponsors.
Speaker B:Some of them might go over to the lpga.
Speaker B:It's just they could be approached that way.
Speaker B:Not that, you know, you pick up the rest of their contract or something, but if they're very much in community oriented and into golf, they could potentially go to the lpga.
Speaker B:That's my thought.
Speaker B:I mean, time will tell.
Speaker C:They could.
Speaker C:And it's a, it's a more affordable model, you know, by a factor.
Speaker C:And they, if the goal is to, like you said, do something that's good for the community, I mean, the model still works.
Speaker C:Golf does give a lot of money back to the community.
Speaker C:It is a very charitable function in the communities where golf is played.
Speaker C:And if your business is serious about engendering that kind of goodwill, I think it's a great idea.
Speaker C:If, if you still want to be involved, but you don't want to spend at the level that the PGA Tour is asking, especially for these elevated events where these purses are outrageous now, 20.
Speaker B:20 million to open then.
Speaker C:And given the fact that the PGA Tour and the LPGA does have this marketing agreement, they have a connection.
Speaker C:They're, they're, you know, working hand in hand.
Speaker C:I think that's a great idea.
Speaker C:I would love to see that happen.
Speaker B:Yeah, I would too.
Speaker B:So the Whit Watson scorecard for the year.
Speaker C:Oh, boy.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And the grade.
Speaker B:You got to give a report card.
Speaker B:What would you grade?
Speaker B:Liv PGA Tour, Even Korn Ferry and the LPGA Tour.
Speaker B:And the one thing, folks, if you knit, there is a tour like Korn Ferry for the ladies, Symmetra Tour.
Speaker B:But it, it gets no coverage.
Speaker B:Korn Fairy, you can see out there.
Speaker B:You cannot see anything for the ladies.
Speaker B:Maybe that'll change too.
Speaker B:They are, they're pretty sparse and they're not very well attended.
Speaker B:I think they need to focus on the LPJ regular tour to get that elevated a bit.
Speaker B:But anyway, what's Witt's report card and scorecard on this?
Speaker C:I've actually been to a Symmetra Tour event.
Speaker C:They, they've played one in Orlando.
Speaker C:I'm not sure if they still do.
Speaker C:And you're right, they are very sparsely attended.
Speaker C:But if you want to get up close to the players, that's the place to go, because you can pretty much get anywhere on the golf course.
Speaker C:You know, the, the scorecards.
Speaker C:Let's start with live.
Speaker C:You know, they, they still have a challenge with coverage in the U.S. i have been to live events.
Speaker C:I've been to the Miami event twice.
Speaker C:And I will tell you that if you could play live Golf tournaments in a place like Miami or Las Vegas all the time, they would do great because they do wonderful in those kinds of environments.
Speaker C:When you've got a fan base that wants to see and be seen.
Speaker C:When it's like a party atmosphere, it's terrific.
Speaker C:You don't notice the music after about five minutes of being out there.
Speaker C:It's loose, it's fun.
Speaker C:There's no corporate signage, which is a.
Speaker C:That's a topic for another day.
Speaker C:You know, you'd like to have some corporate sponsorship on the golf course.
Speaker C:You can pull out your phone and you can scan a little QR code and pay up to get into a luxury box if you didn't buy the ticket in advance.
Speaker C:There's a lot of neat technology that I had never seen at a golf tournament, but that's a TBD on the scorecard because it's still almost impossible to find it in the US And I'm.
Speaker C:I'm friends with Jerry and Keith Hirschland and a lot of people who work in that TV truck, and I'm sure you know those guys, too.
Speaker C:And, you know, I'm rooting for them because they employ a lot of people in golf.
Speaker C:You know, Golf Channel has been contracting, they've been retracting in terms of how they staff their tournaments.
Speaker C:They're doing a lot of stuff remotely now and live, you know, love them or hate them, they employ a lot of people in a lot of friends of mine, camera operators, sound people, techs, you know, that need work.
Speaker C:And so for that, I'm grateful for them.
Speaker C:I think the lpga, you know, they.
Speaker C:As we talked about new leadership.
Speaker C:Let's see what happens.
Speaker C:I hope that people will come back to it.
Speaker C:As you and I talked about already in the show PGA Tour, they had a really good year.
Speaker C:They had, you know, Scotty being Scotty winning two majors, Rory winning a players and the Masters.
Speaker C:Finally you had some young guys, especially later in the year, that emerged that can be talents.
Speaker B:Like J.J. spawn, you know.
Speaker C:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker B:Know who he was.
Speaker C:Had no idea who he was.
Speaker C:And, I mean, you got to be a pretty hardcore fan to even know who he was before winning a U.S. open.
Speaker C:Yeah, I think the game is.
Speaker C:There's no shortage of talent, Jeff.
Speaker C:I mean, there's, you know, the Korn Ferry Tour stacked, and I. I selfishly wish we could see more of those events.
Speaker C:You know, there was a day when I think Golf channel did like 10 tournaments a year on the Korn Ferry Tour.
Speaker C:I'm not sure how many they do now.
Speaker B:Portland was one of them.
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, I did that event.
Speaker C:But you know that the, the Korn Ferry Tour and the Champions Tour now are produced by the PGA Tour themselves.
Speaker C:They do it and they do it almost entirely REM from Ponte Vedra from their new headquarters, their new broadcast center.
Speaker C:I think they send one announcer on site and everybody else is in Ponte Vedra.
Speaker C:And that's cost.
Speaker C:That's just trying to save money.
Speaker C:And I don't think they do as many as they used to, which is unfortunate, but it's this reality.
Speaker C:It just, you know, the, the return on the investment.
Speaker C:It costs a lot of money to televise a golf tournament.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker C:The return is just not there.
Speaker C:So the golf nerds.
Speaker C:We'd love to see more live golf, but you know, it is what it is.
Speaker C:So I think.
Speaker C:And again, to get kind of away from the topic for a second, more and more people are consuming golf on YouTube.
Speaker C:You know, the, the, the content creators cup and watching, you know, good, good.
Speaker C:And stuff like that.
Speaker C:Like there's.
Speaker C:The younger generation is watching that kind of golf and the, the so called legacy media is just trying to catch up to that, you know, very.
Speaker C:And they're kind of slow to get to it.
Speaker C:I think that the golf channels and the NBC's and the CBSs of the world are still trying to figure out how to hitch their wagons to that.
Speaker C:How even the PGA Tour itself trying to figure out, okay, how do we get a piece of that?
Speaker C:How do we get that audience under our umbrella when these guys are getting millions, millions of views, millions of hits on YouTube.
Speaker C:How does the older guard get into that?
Speaker C:I don't think they know the answer yet.
Speaker B:Well, they tried with some of those.
Speaker B:What did they give?
Speaker B:5, 4 or 5 pods.
Speaker B:Paige Sporanek was one of them.
Speaker B:Trying to think of the other guys.
Speaker B:It wasn't Chris Mascara show, but it was a couple.
Speaker B:They gave him inside the rope privileges to, to follow and to, you know, essentially stream from the different events this year.
Speaker B:There were some parameters there, but I don't know, we have to see what the results of that were, you know, because it's too new.
Speaker C:Yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's a generational thing.
Speaker C:You know, it's not my demographic and it's not your demographic and I'm certainly not going to poo poo it.
Speaker C:I mean, no, we, I was.
Speaker C:To give you an example, we had somebody come over who's going to be actually dog sitting for us.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:We're going out of town for a night and I was showing this young man who's in his 20s how to turn on the TV and if he wants to watch TV or watch Netflix and he's like, don't worry about it.
Speaker C:I watch TV on my phone.
Speaker C:Oh, okay.
Speaker C:Yeah, okay.
Speaker C:You know, it's.
Speaker C:And that's so, you know, the generation of golf consumer.
Speaker C:That's how they're consuming golf.
Speaker C:They're not flipping around to watch Golf Channel and CBS.
Speaker C:They're.
Speaker C:They're watching it online.
Speaker C:Kudos to Bryson DeChambeau for figuring that out.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:I mean, that's.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker C:He resurrected his career.
Speaker C:He changed his image.
Speaker C:He completely reinvented himself by accepting that going online and just completely changed everyone's perception of him by embracing that and becoming a different guy.
Speaker C:You know, he went from the.
Speaker C:The heel to the hero.
Speaker C:And I.
Speaker C:It's again, smarter people than me in.
Speaker C:In boardrooms somewhere right now are trying to figure out, all right, if that's how it's going, what are we going to do about it?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:We got to get out of here.
Speaker B:We're a little over on time.
Speaker B:So, David, my producer, is going to have a stroke as usual.
Speaker C:I'm sorry.
Speaker C:I talked too much.
Speaker B:No, it's perfect.
Speaker B:But, Whit, we thank you for joining us.
Speaker B:He is going to stick around for after hours and we'll be back with new shows after Christmas.
Speaker B:But I'm going to take a couple weeks off here, so.
Speaker B:Wait.
Speaker B:I hope you and Tracy have a wonderful, wonderful holiday.
Speaker B:Are your kids coming home?
Speaker C:We do.
Speaker C:We have both of them coming back for Christmas.
Speaker C:And big news.
Speaker C:Big announcement in the Watson household.
Speaker C:The older one, the 25 year old, just got engaged this past weekend.
Speaker B:Oh, yay.
Speaker C:So excellent.
Speaker B:Excellent.
Speaker C:Unfortunately, his fiance will not be joining us for the holiday.
Speaker C:But, yeah, big news for us.
Speaker C:So we have a lot to celebrate this year.
Speaker B:I expect a wedding invitation.
Speaker B:Anyway, we're gonna get out of here, everybody.
Speaker B:Have a great Christmas and we'll see you in the new year.
Speaker B:Take care.
Speaker A:Grilling at the Green is produced by JTSD Productions, LLC in association with Salem Media Group.
Speaker A:All rights reserve.
