On this episode, something you might not be getting a lot of these days: a story to raise your spirits. The second in a special series co-produced with Watson’s Center for Latin American and Caribbean Studies (CLACS), guest host Dr. Pablo Rodriguez talks with Mohamed Malim, founder of Epimonia. Epimonia is a Minnesota-based apparel company that’s fighting to help refugees around the world: 50% of their proceeds go to charities supporting refugees, they employ recent refugees in their factory, and their products are designed to raise awareness of refugees’ stories. It’s social entrepreneurship in every sense of the word. On this episode they discuss Mohamed's story, his vision for Epimonia, and why everybody wins when refugees are allowed to thrive.(Record in March 2020.)

You can learn more about CLACS here.

You can learn more about Epimonia here.

You can watch Mohamed’s talk at Watson here.

You can read a transcript of this episode here: [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I3a8-AlWNGsaAeZwbxJg5XEvytmGfyJ9/view?usp=sharing]

SARAH BALDWIN: From the Watson Institute at Brown University, this is Trending Globally. I'm Sarah Baldwin. On this episode, something we're not getting a lot of these days, a story that might actually raise your spirits.

Mohamed Malim is the founder of Epimonia, a Minnesota-based apparel company that's dedicated to helping refugees. 50% of their proceeds go to charity supporting refugees. And they employ recent refugees in their factory. Even their products raise awareness of and compassion for the cause.

Their iconic accessory is a bracelet made out of life jackets that were worn by refugees crossing into Greece. It's social entrepreneurship in every sense of the word. Mohamed himself is also a refugee. And his story is inextricably linked to that of Epimonia.

On this episode, he talks about his business, his story, and the importance of challenging certain narratives surrounding refugees in America. This episode is the second in a series we're producing with Watson's Center for Latin American and Caribbean Studies. And once again, I'm happy to welcome back Dr. Pablo Rodriguez as our guest host for this special series. Here's Dr. Rodriguez.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: From the Watson Institute, this is Trending Globally. I'm Dr. Pablo Rodriguez.

"Many of us living in America, the land of the free and home of the brave, have probably never experienced the challenges and trauma that stem from the disaster of a civil war. We often find ourselves trying to understand, but are not fully able to comprehend the refugee experience. But I have lived this life. And I'm grateful for the lessons it has taught me as a Somali American."

These are the words of our guest today, Mohamed Malim. Welcome to the show.

MOHAMED MALIM: Thank you, Pablo. Appreciate it.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: Before we talk about Epimonia, which is the company that you have founded, and the transformative effect of those involved, tell me a little bit more about your own story as a refugee.

MOHAMED MALIM: Yes, so I was born in Kenya, one of the refugee camps in Kenya. My parents fled from the civil war back in Somalia during the nineteen-nineties. And on the way, I was born in Kenya.

We lived in Kenya in the refugee camp about three years. And thankfully, you won the lottery that was provided by UNHCR, and we first landed in Texas, Houston. And that was our first destination, an opportunity for us to escape from the refugee camp.

So after living a year in Texas, we then got provided by a sponsorship from Lutheran Church. So that's how we moved to Minnesota. And we lived in Minnesota for the last 17, 18 years. And I called that home.

Growing up in Minnesota, I considered myself as a Minnesotan boy. I graduated from high school, graduated from college. I did track and field over there. And during my junior year in college, everything has changed, how I seen refugees being portrayed in the media.

And for that, I was inspired to start Dream Refugee and Epimonia to change the refugee narrative as it was going on. And for me, that was the beginning of my entrepreneurship and my important work supporting refugees here in the US.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: Your experience as a refugee is not unique. But like you said, you consider yourself lucky.

MOHAMED MALIM: Yes.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: Because many don't have the opportunity to come--

MOHAMED MALIM: That's right.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: --into this country. You also participated in the lottery before Trump was elected--

MOHAMED MALIM: That's right.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: --which also changed the circumstances of that program. And you only experienced three years in camp. I think that's important for our audience to know what the typical experience is for refugees such as you.

MOHAMED MALIM: So you say that it's three years. Right now, I just want to put that out there. It takes is the average to be in a camp, you just take 17 years.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: Wow.

MOHAMED MALIM: And fortunately, we had three years back then. And there were times where my mom told me stories about how she would go out middle of the night, sacrifice, look food, seek shelter for us, and find food for us.

Obviously, I was a toddler back then, so I don't vividly remember living in camp. But there are times I remember screams of babies during the camps. It was a scary thing for me to experience that a young kid, so.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: And I think it's also important to point out that there are about 250 million people throughout the world who live outside their home country. 10% are refugees escaping war and persecution and factors that are beyond their control. So we're talking about millions of people. Sometimes people don't realize the extent of this problem.

MOHAMED MALIM: Yes. And for that, causation is based on war, climate, prosecution. And for us, it was civil war. That's how we fled from Somalia. And unfortunately, it's growing. Now there's over 70 million refugees are currently displaced around the world. A couple of years ago, it was 60 million. So it's increasing, and we need to do something about it.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: Definitely. So one of the things that I wanted to talk to you about specifically because of your history as a Somali refugee is that sometimes people make statements regarding bringing children into the process of refugee resettlement.

So when they talk about central American refugees, they talk disparagingly about how can parents put a baby or a child at risk. In your case, you were, what, four years old. So how is it that a parent can put a child at risk in the process of leaving their country? Could you explain to us why is it that parents would put a child at risk, jump into the Mediterranean, or walk thousands of miles from Honduras to the United States?

MOHAMED MALIM: End of the day, it's for their future. That's the reason why. They want to look after their kids and their future. It's either they die in a cab, or they die in the war, or else, go out and flee to that country. There's not an option to it. So people don't understand that they don't want to flee. It's mandatory, you know? Because or else, they will die in the situation they're at currently in, so.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: It's the concept of being a choice. We as Americans sometimes believe that everything we do is a function of choice--

MOHAMED MALIM: Absolutely.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: --when, in reality, refugees don't choose to leave their country. They are refugees for a reason.

MOHAMED MALIM: Indeed.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: And in this case, running away from war. Another thing that I wanted to ask you about is the new political environment that is banning travel from a number of countries, one of them includes Somalia.

MOHAMED MALIM: That's correct.

MOHAMED MALIM: I don't feel safer at all. It's actually causing the probably even more worse, you know? And for that, when you ban these countries, you ban the future of the United States. You're just banning their future that they can contribute in the US. People don't look at it that way. And for that, it's unfortunate to see that kind of situation. And hopefully, that could be unbanned soon because--

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: So you see it as a liability for the United States--

MOHAMED MALIM: Indeed.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: --as opposed to a liability for the countries of origin.

MOHAMED MALIM: That's correct. Like I said, when a refugee comes to a new country, these people have tremendous skills, talents. Immigrants and refugees build the United States. And they are the future of this country particularly. And for that, I see this an opportunity that if you're banning these people, you're just banning the future of these future leaders, so.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: You also spoke during your lecture here at Brown that you experienced the reality of life in America as if there was an expectation in your mind that this life was going to be different. Even though you're very successful, you still have different expectations to the reality of what you encountered.

MOHAMED MALIM: Yes, when I arrived in the US, me and my parents, my parents told me there were times that she thought she was living a good life, you know? Oh, America would be the land of opportunity where you fulfill your dreams. But that was not the case, you know?

My mom and my dad worked very hard to provide for us. There were times where my dad usually worked about 12 hours a day. And there were times my mom wouldn't see my dad during the day. So it was tough, but it was for them that helped me grow in a person which I am today. And for that reason, I'm hugely fortunate enough to see those things flourish, so.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: You also used sports as a way of getting out of poverty, as a way of obtaining an education. Somebody somehow had to have told you that you were talented, that this is an opportunity. Tell us the story.

MOHAMED MALIM: That's interesting because I went to an all affluent white high school. And coming from the cities, it was tough when I was attending that high school because there was not a lot people that looked like me. I faced a lot of isolation. It was a lot of times where I didn't fit in.

But thankfully, sport was one of the element that helped me integrate into the culture, helped me bond more. And for that, I did track and field. And on top of that, I was good at it, at a point where that helped me pursue my collegiate athletics. And it's been a great opportunity for me. So a huge sport has been a huge role in my life.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: And it helped you get into college.

MOHAMED MALIM: Yes, indeed.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: Which a lot of people don't have the opportunity to have, given the cost of college in the United States. So most people would have gone to college, would have obtained their degree, and start making money--

MOHAMED MALIM: That's right.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: --and taking care of themselves. And instead, you decided to join a cause, the cause of refugees all over the world. Tell us of that moment when you decided that this was going to be what you were going to dedicate your life.

MOHAMED MALIM: Yes, the funny part was when I was going to college, my initial goal was to graduate, get a four-year degree, and work. That was the initial plan.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: Like everybody else.

MOHAMED MALIM: Like everybody else, you know? But there was a time that changed. That didn't happen. During my junior year in college and when the current president came to Minnesota, specifically in St. Cloud, he backlashed the whole refugees community. He was making statement like Somalis are terrorists with a lot of negative rhetorics.

And for me, that just changed and inspired me to start this project called Dream Refugees, basically to essentially change the refugee narrative. We don't hear a lot of stories in the media, especially success stories of refugees. And for me, that was the beginning of my journey of my entrepreneurship journey and making and creating awareness of the refugee crisis and changing these stories of how refugees are portrayed in the media.

And yeah, since then, it's been great. One of our products we have right now is we create clothing line that we take refugee life jackets, and we turn it into bracelets. So I mean, accessory product line, and we hire refugees and we provide opportunities for refugees.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: It's important for people to understand the context of where this is happening. Because people don't think of Minnesota as a place for Somali refugees, when in reality, it is one of the-- it is the largest--

MOHAMED MALIM: Second largest.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: The second largest Somali population in the United States where you grew up. So this was personal for you.

MOHAMED MALIM: It was very personal to me. And for someone who's literally backlashing Somali refugees, that just hit me hard. And I thought about my parents. For the fact that they worked extremely hard to help me provide-- help me excel in life. And for that, it was time for me to change the narrative.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: And the people that you were living with, your friends, the people you knew in the Somali community. You knew these people were not criminals. You knew these people were all working very, very hard.

MOHAMED MALIM: Like your typical American, they are paying their taxes. They are providing for their kids-- your regular people. But backlashing them, is just not right.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: So the first project was this refugee dream--

MOHAMED MALIM: Dream Refugee.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: Dream Refugee, that was the name of the group. What did you do there?

MOHAMED MALIM: So what I did was, I've captured over 30 refugee stories around the community in Minnesota. I had a photographer, a friend of mine. I had a journalist who jumped on board, helped me write these stories.

And for me, I was literally going out in the community and interviewing these refugees people, telling about how they came to America and how they contribute to America, whether it's culturally, diversity, or financially. We don't hear those success stories. And for that, it was the beginning of refugees changing the narrative.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: So changing the narrative for you was important as a result of what the president was trying to portray in the media, especially in that--

MOHAMED MALIM: I had to combat that. And for me, that was my beginning to combat that.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: So after you create Dream Refugee, all of a sudden somebody put an idea in your head. How did this come about, to build these bracelets out of life jackets?

MOHAMED MALIM: So during my senior year at college, at the University of St. Thomas, I participated in this business competition called the Fowler. And for me, it was, how can I build a social enterprise company that impacts refugees, that provides job employment, at the same time, create awareness of the refugee crisis?

And for that, that was the beginning of Epimonia. Where I've seen all these life jackets literally littered in the shore of Greece. And I'm like, how can I take these life jackets and turn it into a product line? And for that, bracelets was one of those products.

And it's been a great response. I've contacted many, many refugees organization in Greece to supply the jackets for me. At the same time, we do support refugees organizations in Greece as well.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: So in essence, you took garbage. You took garbage and turned it into a social enterprise that is now helping refugees. How does Epimonia help refugees?

MOHAMED MALIM: So how Epimonia helps refugees is, our product is produced by refugees in Minnesota. And then once we sell those products, 50% of profits are supporting refugees' organizations across the US, which are focused on providing scholarships for high school students, job employment, and helping refugees pay for their citizenship application fee. So those are three categories we're focusing on right now. And that's how Epimonia supports refugees and creates awareness of the refugee crisis using fashion.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: I wanted to ask you, what does Epimonia mean?

MOHAMED MALIM: Epimonia means-- it's a Greek word meaning perseverance. The reason-- when a refugee flees from their home country, they persevere so much during the journey. And Greece is the main hub for refugees right now where they are fleeing to. And it has a deep-rooted connection. So that's why the meaning of Epimonia comes from.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: This is a for-profit company, as opposed to a non-profit, which many people would have thought that's what you were trying to accomplish. Why make it a for-profit instead of a nonprofit company.

MOHAMED MALIM: I firmly believe that private companies have the ability to scale really fast and make impact. And for that, there is a reason why I've created a for-profit company where I can hire refugees, support refugees, and make that impact. I feel like private sector companies needs to step up and needs to play a role in the refugee crisis, because they are the ones who can make a huge impact rapidly.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: Tell me about the people that make the bracelets. Because you say that these are made by refugees. Could you share some of the stories of these refugees that work for you in Minnesota?

MOHAMED MALIM: So we currently employee Hmong refugees. They create our bracelets. Hopefully, once Epimonia grows, we are thinking about hiring more refugees from different backgrounds, like Somali refugees, Syrian refugees. But for right now, we have Hmong refugees.

And these former Hmong refugees, they have similar stories like me. They fled from Vietnam and wanted a better life for their children. And for that, the refugee crisis is-- even though there's so many people around the world that are different, but at the same time, the commonality-- they have the same challenge and the same goal to eventually have a better life for their kids.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: How did you come about having Hmong refugees as opposed to Somali refugees, which is what people would have expected?

MOHAMED MALIM: Indeed. So as I was looking for people to partner up with, one of my friends recommended me reach out to a Hmong manufacturer in Maplewood, Minnesota. And that's how I got connected with Hmong refugees, in particular. And for that, it was a great start for me to help my company grow and just start creating bracelets.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: And who are the organizations that benefit from the sale of these bracelets. Who are the nonprofit organizations that are now working with refugees receiving 50% of your profits?

MOHAMED MALIM: That's right. So we work with the International Institute of Minnesota. We help them help refugees pay for their citizenship application. We also partner with USA UNHCR. That's another big partnership, and also as well as the Karin nonprofit. We provide scholarship for them.

So the interesting aspect is, each bracelet supports a different initiative. The red one supports citizenship, the blue one provide scholarship, and the orange bracelet supports job training.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: So does that mean I have to get three bracelets instead of just one, like I have right now.

MOHAMED MALIM: I mean, the larger the impact-- why not?

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: So that's it, that's my next purchase. I need to have the complete collection. And you are not only making bracelets, there's other clothing accessories that you are developing with the same concept of involving the refugees themselves, and building them, and utilizing the materials from the Greek shores.

MOHAMED MALIM: So we have other products such as beanies that's made out of recycled life jacket. The patch is made out of a life jacket. We have tote bags. We have apparel line. Just in the future, once we create these products are symbolic as using the life jacket strip. That is how we differentiate our company from other brands, using those life jackets. And those life jackets is very symbolic of the refugee crisis. It means a lot.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: It's more than symbolic. And I am a witness to that. I purchased my bracelet in December. And I have to tell you, every time I find myself in a situation where I feel that the world is not being nice to me, all I got to do is just hold onto my bracelet and think of the person that was floating in the Mediterranean. And thinking of the hardship that that person had to experience in order to get to wherever they got and think, my life is just-- it may be inconvenient, a little bit. But nothing compared to the life that these refugees have to experience.

MOHAMED MALIM: No matter where you are from, it has that personal connection. It shows no matter where you are, no matter what you're going through, there is hope. Keep pushing. For me, it's like that personal connection. I'm thinking about you at the moment.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: As you were trying to develop this idea of Epimonia, who were your advocates? Who were supporting you in this idea? Because I'm sure you didn't do this alone. And who were your detractors? What were people telling you about your ability to be able to carry out this mission? By the way, people don't even know this, but you are 23 years old.

MOHAMED MALIM: Yeah, I get that a lot. But there was a lot of key players that helped me grow Epimonia. One of them were my mentors. One of them was the school, the University of St. Thomas. And for that, these were the people who helped me contribute and helped me invest my time in this company. And without them, I wouldn't be here.

So obviously, you have to have a great resource. You have to have great team members in order for your company to grow. So those were the people who helped me and helped me dream big.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: And who were your detractors? Who were saying that, you know, don't waste your time, go get a job?

MOHAMED MALIM: That's right. Those were people like family members, unfortunately. Because at the same time, they're looking out for you. They're saying don't waste your time. You graduated from college, you have a great degree. Now go work.

I can get a job. That's easy for me. But I want something challenging. So when you discover your passion, you got to keep at it and keep going. Because the less resistant it is, the long term is the most rewarding. And that means the more its impact.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: In spite of what every family members would say. And I think that's a good advice to college students that, right now, find themselves in a situation where they would want to change the world. But the realities kind of inhibit that sense of purpose.

MOHAMED MALIM: Yes, and unfortunately, you will have those people. And at the same time, they're looking out for you. But you need to know that in order for you to find yourself, you have to get out your comfort zone. You have to find new things. You have to try new things. You have to go out, meet different people that look like you. It is something that's about you that you can bring talent to the world. And for that, you just take that risk and it will pay off.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: What does the future hold for Epimonia? Are you expected to grow into other lines of business? Do you plan to go global and have a global impact in the lives of refugees?

MOHAMED MALIM: Yes, those are all in the radar right now. But since we are still a startup company, first, we need to grow our company by hiring more refugees. Right now I want to focus in the US, because that's the most important aspect right now. But once things pick up 5 to 10 years from now, we don't know. We might go global brand. But now it's to impact refugees in the US, particularly, and just make as much impact as I can.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: Well, the beautiful part about the internet is that anybody in the world can see your website and support it. So I'm sure you're getting requests from people all over the world to get these bracelets.

MOHAMED MALIM: I've been getting a lot of purchases from countries like Australia, New Zealand, London. It's a huge honor and an amazing thing to see people from different-- around the countries support your cause, even though you're based in the US.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: Well, it gives us great hope for the future that people like you are working on behalf of refugees worldwide through entrepreneurship, which is a different way of supporting this important cause.

If anybody is interested in finding more information about your company, where can they find you?

MOHAMED MALIM: They can find me at epimonia.com. And they can also follow our social media platform on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook @epimoniamn. And it's a great way to spread awareness. And it's great way to join the movement of our company.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: And during your lecture at Brown, you were asking for college students to get involved as well.

MOHAMED MALIM: I emphasized that college students can play a role in the refugee crisis in any way. I recommend them to volunteer at their local refugee community, meet these refugee arrivals, and just learn their story, and be very open. The impact you're making to them, in their eyes, is a large impact. It's the impact of a lifetime to the refugees. So I believe college students are the future. And for that, I emphasize to them, go out there and meet a stranger.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: And hopefully, we'll have many more Mohamed Malims graduating from college and changing the world.

MOHAMED MALIM: Indeed. Thank you.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ: Thank you for joining us, Mohamed, in Trending Globally.

MOHAMED MALIM: Thank you, Pablo, appreciate it.

SARAH BALDWIN: This episode was produced by Dan Richards, Babette Thomas, and Jackson Cantrell. Our theme music is by Henry Bloomfield, additional music by the Blue Dot Sessions. I'm Sarah Baldwin.

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