Kyle McDowell, a former Fortune 10 executive, shares his transformative journey from corporate leadership to becoming an inspirational speaker and leadership coach. At the heart of his philosophy are the "10 We's," principles designed to cultivate a culture of excellence and collaboration in organizations. McDowell emphasizes the importance of asking for help and embracing challenges, highlighting that true leadership involves supporting others and fostering a sense of community. Throughout the conversation, he reflects on his personal experiences, illustrating how a shift from a results-driven mindset to one focused on people can lead to profound changes in workplace culture. Listeners will find practical insights on how to lead with empathy, accountability, and a commitment to collective success, ultimately encouraging a more fulfilling work life.

In this inspiring episode, we sit down with Kyle McDowell, a former Fortune 10 executive turned motivational speaker, bestselling author, and leadership coach. With nearly three decades of experience leading tens of thousands of employees at some of America’s largest companies, Kyle shares his journey and the philosophy behind his trademarked principles, The 10 WEs. Discover how Kyle is on a mission to create cultures of excellence and reignite leaders’ passion and purpose in today’s uncertain and apathetic workforce. Tune in to learn how you can begin with WE and transform your leadership approach.

Kyle McDowell’s conversation delves into the transformative power of leadership that prioritizes collective success over individual accolades. Drawing from his extensive experience as a Fortune 10 executive, McDowell shares his journey of realization, eventually leading him to establish the '10 We's'—principles that promote a culture of excellence. He emphasizes that amidst the chaos and uncertainty of the modern workforce, leaders must begin with 'We' to foster collaboration, connection, and commitment among their teams.

A central theme throughout the episode is the importance of vulnerability and the courage to ask for help, which McDowell illustrates through a personal story about a past professional setback. This vulnerability opens the door to authentic relationships and encourages team members to engage more deeply with one another. McDowell argues that when leaders adopt a mindset that prioritizes the collective, they not only enhance team performance but also create an environment where innovation can thrive. He shares anecdotes that highlight how these principles have reshaped not only his leadership approach but also his personal relationships, fostering deeper connections and understanding.

As the discussion unfolds, McDowell shares practical insights on how to implement the '10 We's' in everyday leadership practices. He underscores that these principles are not just theoretical; they are actionable guidelines that can lead to profound change in both professional settings and personal lives. The episode concludes with a powerful reminder that leadership is not solely about managing tasks but about nurturing relationships and creating a legacy of care and empathy. McDowell’s insights challenge listeners to rethink their approach to leadership and consider how they can cultivate a more inclusive and supportive workplace.

Takeaways:

• Kyle McDowell emphasizes the importance of asking for help in personal and professional situations.
• Creating a culture of excellence requires leaders to prioritize empathy and support for their teams.
• The 10 principles outlined by Kyle offer actionable guidance for improving workplace dynamics.
• Leaders should focus on outcomes rather than just activity to drive real progress.
• To transform an organization, leaders must be open to challenges from their team members.
• Measuring success by the details can set high performing teams apart from the rest.

Links referenced in this episode:

• amazon.com
• kylemcdowellinc.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Apple
• Amazon
• IKEA
• Athlete's Foot

My guest today is Kyle McDowell, former Fortune 10 executive turned inspirational speaker, best selling author and leadership coach.

Kyle is on a quest to create cultures of excellence and reignite leaders passion and purpose.

With nearly three decades of experience leading tens of thousands of employees at some of America's great biggest firms, Kyle's philosophy is rooted in the trademarked principles of the 10 we's.

While today's workforce is plagued with uncertainty and apathy, his strategy is simple.

Begin with the we.

Welcome Kyle to the podcast.

So welcome to the show, Kyle.

I'm so excited to have you on.

I'm going to start out with my favorite question for all my guests.

What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?

Don't be afraid to ask for help.

I love that.

Yeah, well, thanks, man.

And it's.

It's something that I learned the hard way.

Long story short, I was up for promotion.

This is many, many years ago.

And the president of the division to whom I reported at the time, while he was looking for that person in between us.

So I was essentially trying to promote into my boss's role, my former boss's role guy left the company and the president was trying to find a new person to take that chair.

And I thought I had, I thought I had the job in the bag.

And fast forward a month or so, I didn't get the role.

And I went back to Ted, the president of the division, to say, hey, man, I really felt like I put myself in a good position to take this role.

What, you know, what happened?

And he started to point through a laundry list of operational improvement opportunities in my shop.

So the areas for which I was responsible.

And he was right.

There were things that I certainly was not excelling or overachieving from a metric perspective.

And he said, but you never asked for help.

So it's one thing to be underperforming, but you never asked for help.

And my reaction initially was, well, of course I didn't ask for help.

This is, these are my functional areas.

I'm the leader of these areas.

I got to figure out how to get this stuff on track.

And I got defensive and, and the moral of the story is, and I didn't recognize it at the time, but it's something I live by, so seriously today is that people really do want to help others.

We're wired to help each other.

And had I raised my hand to ask for help, I would have dug out of that situation so much faster.

So that's something, you know, on our personal, in our personal lives as well, right.

Just don't be afraid to ask for help.

I often have times where I talk to organizations and they're digging holes for themselves and they keep digging in the wrong direction.

Instead of stopping digging, they dig faster and harder.

And so if you're digging in the wrong direction but just faster and harder, you're still going in the wrong direction.

And it's.

Yeah.

And it's strategically such a bad message for the, for your team.

But also the hours and calories spent digging in the wrong direction is just wasteful and it just pulls us away from the real, our real goals and targets and aspirations.

So it's, you know, one of my principles is we measure ourselves by outcomes, not activity.

And I think you, you hit it right on the head.

It's like activity is activity for activity sake is really not helpful.

Focus on those outcomes.

Right, right.

I love to ask my guests this question, especially people like yourself who have served in high levels of leadership, because I love leadership is who were some of the people in your life who served to be an inspiration for you or even a mentor on your journey?

Man, as cliche as it might sound, I cannot answer that question without tipping a cap to my mother.

I was raised in really, really humble, in a humble way, very rural, small town America.

But my mother was one of the hardest working people I've ever known.

I, I don't recall her ever complaining about, you know, Sunday night, got to go back to work tomorrow.

I never heard she was on the road.

She traveled a lot for a long period of time.

She was a, a, a 100% commission driven salesperson.

And she just taught me the value of work and work ethic.

If you want X, you got to do Y.

If you want to.

Nothing is too big to accomplish.

You can do anything in this life, but it's not going to come easily.

And I just, from a very young age, remember, and this is kind of a funny story, but when I was a kid, every year new Air Jordans would come out and I was a big sneaker head back in those days.

And, and every time a release would be scheduled, I knew what I had to do.

It was usually two or three weeks of big time yard work.

Lots of weed pulling, lots of grass, mowing like nothing was ever handed.

And I just think that was that, that positioned me for my run through corporate America.

It's like, if you want it, you got to go get it.

Yeah, I remember when those, when those Nikes came out.

Probably a little older than you are.

Exciting times, man.

Those everybody Everybody had the same one.

I wanted to find the Nikes that were unique.

Absolutely.

I wanted to.

My first pair of Nikes were.

I think they were green and yellow with the swish in them.

But no one else had those.

I didn't want to have the one everybody else had.

I wanted to be the one that was unique and different.

And I'm still that way, man.

I was such a sneaker nerd that, uh, I worked at a place called the Athlete's Foot in high school.

Uh, kinda like a foot Locker, right.

And I had this manager who, for whatever reason, was smart enough to realize that.

So what he would let me do.

So let's pretend the shoes were to release on a Thursday, right?

Thursday morning, 10am they go on sale.

If I worked Wednesday night and I closed, he would allow me to leave the cash and he'd ring me up the next day because he knew I would wear those shoes to school the very next day.

And nobody had them.

So.

So as I'm walking in school with a brand new pair of Jordans, I would get like, hey, man, where'd you get those?

Athlete's Foot.

So he would sell out so quickly because he was doing some marketing.

The day of the release, which was back in those days was, you know, there was no Internet to say, oh, this shoe drops on this date.

It was like, hey, that guy's wearing those.

They must be available now.

So it was kind of a fun thing every time a new shoe came out.

Yeah.

That's so cool.

Yeah.

So I'm curious.

Share with me your journey from Fortune 10 executive to inspirational speaker and leadership coach, because I'm always curious, how do you go from the highest, highest levels to what you do now to inspire others?

Sure.

And thanks for asking that, because it is kind of my mission now.

That last part.

Inspire others.

So, man, like so many of us, I entered the workforce and I would love to hear your reaction to this because I bet we're cut from a similar cloth in this way.

When I entered the workforce, I carried with me an incredible amount of eagerness, optimism.

I wanted to make a difference.

I wanted.

I wanted to have an impact.

I wanted to do big things.

And I spent nearly 30 years in big corporate America.

And I was a very lucky guy in that nearly every year, every other year, I would take on bigger and bigger roles and responsibilities.

And, you know, ultimately, before I exited, I led collectively tens of thousands of employees.

My last two roles, I had 30,000 employees.

But what happened over the course of that journey with, as each new Opportunity opened up and bigger role and, you know, larger organizations and bigger paychecks and all that.

Right along with those increases, I also felt an increase of apathy.

I started to really loathe the environments that I was actually creating, which is a real mind twister because, you know, you look out across 15, 10, 15,000 people of an organization that you're responsible for kind of establishing a culture and driving a culture, and you.

And you find yourself incredibly unhappy and unrewarded, and you feel like you're just part of a machine.

The bureaucracy, the toxicity, all the things that so many of us have seen throughout our careers that it reached a boiling point for me, man.

And I just made this promise to myself.

This was back in around.

And by the way, at this point in my career, I had accomplished nearly everything that I had set out to accomplish.

I had the fancy corner offices, the, the great titles, all this compensation, and, you know, my jokes were the funniest they've ever been.

So you know how that works.

Like when you ascend in, in the corporate world, people just, they laugh at stuff.

That's because they, they want to be endeared.

I.

The apathy became so strong that I had to do something different if I wanted to feel the way, if I wanted to continue the path that I was on.

I had the recipe.

Just continue to have this command and control mentality, bang my fist on the desk, focus more on results than the people that delivered the results.

And I, and, and I could have done that probably indefinitely, but I reached a point where my health was not what it used to be.

I was staring through what ultimately resulted in.

In a divorce.

I just was not a happy guy.

And I made that promise to myself, but I didn't know how.

I didn't know how I was going to transition from being that stodgy old leader to.

To something different.

And it all came together.

Keith one night in Lawrence, Kansas.

So I assumed a role that would.

That called on me to lead about 15,000 people.

I led all of the Affordable Care act and 1, 800 Medicare telephonic enrollment functions.

Really, really important work enrolling millions of people in healthcare every year.

And I had been warned when I took that role, there was a bit of dysfunction.

We had some silos, we had a functional area over here performing really well, but one over here not performing so well.

But collectively, the team still felt like they were winning, even though we had pockets of not winning.

And the night before I was going to address this Newly inherited leadership team in Lawrence, Kansas.

I knew it was a pivotal moment, not in my life, but in my career.

Turns out it was in my life.

And at about midnight, I put my laptop in my lap, knowing I needed to create a presentation for this group the next day, the following morning.

And it would be the first time I'd met many of them because I'd only been in the role maybe 60 days and brought all the leaders into Kansas and.

And after about two hours of typing on my laptop, I had 10 sentences.

And there was no muse on my shoulder or anything.

No sexy Hollywood music playing in the background.

I had these 10 sentences, and they each begin and still do begin with the word we.

And I just, I.

I didn't even call them principals at the time.

I just said, these are the kind of guiding rules of how we would treat each other behind the scenes, behind the curtain.

I believe we're incredibly high functioning.

Our clients will feel it.

So I birthed the 10 Wes that evening.

And what transpired in the following year, no, two two plus years, was a.

Was a beautiful transformation of results.

So the team had started to deliver unprecedented results at heights that they had never, ever delivered.

But more importantly, what had a lasting impact on me was watching bosses transform into leaders and watching people kind of set aside their own personal aspirations and focus their energy and invest their time into those around them.

And I'm happy to share.

Gosh.

Seven, eight years later, the 10 ways are still the cultural manifesto of that organization.

Their performance appraisals are layered in the 10 ways.

I gave a speech to them late last year.

Been gone forever.

But most importantly, man, many of those team members, especially a few direct reports that I had in those days, I still have regularly scheduled one on ones with.

We check in with each other to see how they're, how things are going.

What can I do for them, what can they do for me?

And I just think that's a commentary of when you make that shift from being the guy that's focused on results at all costs to investing how much, you know, every last drop of energy into those around you.

Man, the reward that comes from that is just so profound.

And that's what compelled me to write the book ultimately.

And it's, It's.

I'm very grateful for having made that pivot.

So tell us the name of your book.

I'm sure people going, oh, this sounds really cool.

The 10 ways.

Where can I find those 10 ways if I want to read about them?

Yeah, yeah.

So my book is called begin with we 10 principles for building and Sustaining a Culture of Excellence.

I wrote the book man in Full Transparency.

I wrote that book.

I remember telling my wife, if we sell a thousand copies of this, I'll be over the moon.

And we just passed 16,000 units sold all in.

That brings us to about 20,000.

And every single month the number continues to climb and eclipse the previous month.

And I don't share that for any pat on the back.

You know, it's not about that.

It's about.

To me it just means that there is a hunger for this message.

You know, we is something that has become an afterthought.

And I think largely because of social media and in many corporate environments this dog eat dog for me to win you must lose type paradigm.

And I think it's all nonsense.

And I think we are in a place now where we need to lean into one another, recognize the value of our unique and diverse experiences and perspectives, and focus on the collective we rather than any one of us.

Because none, you know, a team is a team and can't be A team cannot.

And no individual can accomplish exactly what a team can accomplish when that team is aligned around a common set of principles.

And for me, that's the ten ways love that.

I love sports and I love dynasties and I love potential dynasties.

I remember I did.

I did a message once on the 85 bears and what made the 85 bears special.

But I also did a talked about compared them to the 86 bears.

Yep.

And how that dynasty in the making just came apart because they forgot about the Wii and it became Buddy Ryan versus Mike Ditka.

Offense versus defense.

Yep.

Jealousy.

And that that would be dynasty just collapsed in a short period of time.

So I love the idea of the we.

So as we think about that we concept.

What are those 10 Wes was the most difficult one for people to embrace, man.

I'll certainly answer the question but anytime I get a chance to talk about the 85 Bears, I think.

I think the greatest NFL team of all time.

I wore number nine as a kid growing up because of Jim McMahon.

That man, those were good times.

And.

And there I maybe the.

Maybe the Trent do for Ravens.

There was a defense that could hang with that team.

But I love that you brought that up because I just.

I was such a big Bears fan back in the day.

But.

But the super bowl shuffle.

You remember those things, right?

I do.

All right.

Good times, man.

For me, no question.

The toughest of all of the principles that for.

For folks to get behind and not just say it but actually mean it and live it every day is we number eight.

And that's we challenge each other.

Because let's face it, in most organizations, at least throughout my career, challenges are almost always reserved for the leader to members of the team.

Rarely is it encouraged for members of the team to challenge one another.

But even more rare is a leader saying, and actually meaning challenge me, challenge me.

And now there has to be some rules.

So with we challenge each other, the rule is your challenge must be grounded in either data or experience.

Can't just be your opinion, hey, I don't like this.

Or you know, this is, you know, I just have a hunch.

You know, those types of things are really tough to quantify.

But when someone approaches another member of the team with data or experience, you gotta, you gotta remember we number nine.

And that's we embrace challenge.

Because I just believe.

Well, I'm gonna go back to the sports analogy.

So Mike Ditka back in those days and well, I'll use current standards.

An NFL roster has 53 men on it.

The active roster is 53 men.

And to think mathematically, just mathematically, that one coach can really inspire, motivate, and bring the best out of 53 men, it's naive.

That's why there are assistant coaches.

That's why there are coordinators.

That's why in addition to that, very high paid individuals who seize the opportunity to bring the best out of each other.

By what?

By challenging them.

So when you see a quarterback get sacked seven times in a game, he has every right and should be in his offensive lineman's face.

They have a job to do.

They have a job to do and you got to do it diplomatically, right?

You have to help inspire.

We don't just beat, beat people up.

But I think the more we are open about what's not going well, the more we're open about how and what we need to do to improve, to be excellent and transparent and conspicuous we are about those opportunities, the more likely we are to achieve excellence.

But to act like, you know, this thing in the corner is broken, but I'm waiting for the boss to come to me to tell me to fix it is nonsense.

Someone sees it's broken, they should recognize that, take on that challenge and address it.

But you got to create an environment where people feel safe to do so.

And I think that's where a lot of leaders are.

More appropriately, bosses will say, yeah, challenge me, my door's always open.

But the first time that challenge comes, it's like we're going this path and because I said so.

And I just.

It's.

That's how I used to lead, but it's.

It's nonsense nowadays right now.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not a Bears fan.

I was a Steelers fan, so I like success over decades.

That's a true dynasty.

True dynasty.

Yeah.

Right on.

Hey, I think we might be staring at another one.

Yeah, unfortunately.

You talk about the Chiefs, right?

Yeah.

I mean, they just find a way to win, and they just find a way.

And there was an article in ESPN.

Recently, great lessons in there from what you're talking about.

I mean, you.

So many great lessons.

It doesn't matter who is on the team.

They all seem to be pushing in the same direction.

And they do challenge each other.

And even if one side isn't performing up to standards, they still find ways to make the organization win.

I'm curious, as you think about how you've implemented the wheeze and corporate setting.

Give me a good example of that being successfully done in a corporate setting.

Sure.

I've been so lucky, man.

After the book came out, I started to be contacted by leaders of organizations also.

A lot of HR leaders said, hey, man, we need this.

We need this framework.

So.

So here's a recent example.

I was so fortunate to work with a local nonprofit.

By local, I'm saying I'm in Florida, so there's a nonprofit who I'll.

I'll leave them nameless because they're.

They're a humble group.

But this could easily be tracked.

They just made time magazine's top one, top 100 places in the world to visit.

It's a nonprofit and their leadership team.

I spent, all told, probably about 15 hours with their entire leadership team.

It's a group of about 13, 14 people.

And we met every other week for about six weeks.

And we dove deep into each chapter of the book.

So it's one thing to have someone read a book, or it's another thing for the author of that book to come give a speech, but to actually go deeper into the weeds of the concepts in the book.

The pitfalls of.

Of not implementing the 10 Ways with Care and patience.

Also the success that can come if you do it the right way was something that I'll never forget because this group as.

As we.

As we came together, I could sense they were strong, they were tight.

But I also sensed there was a bit of.

It felt as if they had resigned themselves in many ways to.

To this is how we operate.

In other words, there wasn't a lot of provocative thinking, or we have this one meeting every other week.

I'm not getting the most out of it, says one of the leaders in the group.

But he never voiced that to the CEO to say, hey man, I love the time together, but the agenda and the way we process this time together and spend this time together, I'm not getting the most out of it.

So it created the safe space for people to talk through opportunities in their functional areas, but also the more macro view of how they all and interact with one another.

But I'll say this, and I don't want to leave.

I don't want to leave your listeners, your audience, with the impression that this stuff is easy.

So the principles themselves are incredibly simple.

But simple doesn't mean easy.

And like anything else in life, it takes a commitment and holding yourself accountable to that commitment, not just every day, but every interaction.

So one of the beautiful outcomes that we tend to see is leaders start to recognize the level of empathy they've showed historically.

And if there's an opportunity for them to be more empathetic.

And by that I mean when they're working with a member of their team who's struggling with, you know, you pick the reason, any number of reasons, the way they address that team member tends to be a little more empathetic.

And we centric, we focus, like, what can I do to help you get out of this slump?

Or I know you're dealing with a sick kid or maybe an aging parent.

What do you need from us to take that burden down just a bit so you can still focus on, on the things that matter most in your life?

Because we want you to be part of this team for a while.

So how they approach their business, how they approach each other, and certainly how they approach their team members is some of the biggest transformations I've been fortunate enough to be a part of.

So I just spent the last three years studying leadership for a doctoral research project.

Respect and thank you.

Respect.

Yeah.

And I.

And I wanted to compare organizational change in the church setting, but also comparing how different leaders manage that change.

I am curious because I know what my study revealed for me.

Are there leadership styles that struggle more with the we concepts?

And are there leadership styles that seem to excel more with the we concept?

Yeah.

Great, great question.

And I think I am uniquely qualified to answer that question, because if you would have given me the 10 Wesley earlier in my career, I would have rolled my eyes and I would have said, this guy didn't get it.

Because I led with such a commanding control Authoritarian style?

Yes.

The short answer is yes.

When a boss and I use that word not interchangeably with leader because they're different.

As you certainly know when, when a boss makes a decision to pivot and maybe approach their work and their leadership game a little bit different, it's usually because they've been told to do so.

Like their boss has come to them or they, or perhaps they even recognize the data on employee engagement surveys or satisfaction surveys are not where they need to be or any number of metrics aren't where they'd like them to be in this.

And they see this wake up call, I need to make a change.

But more often than not, that change is a check the box approach.

It's, it's, I need to do this because it's almost cause and effect.

This is causing me to behave differently.

And those are, you may find some short term success, but it's not going to be sustainable because it's not authentic.

So in my favorite example of something we kind of already touched on, but I'll go a little bit deeper, and that is principle nine.

We, we embrace challenge.

It's one thing to say we're an organization that's ripe on challenges and we want each other to be our best and we want to pull the most and best out of everyone.

Until the leader is challenged, his way of thinking is challenged, his, his, his approaches, his rationale for things.

And that's when it's easy to revert back to being the boss.

Right.

I hear you.

Good, good input, good intel.

I think there's some value in there.

Thank you, but no thank you.

We're going this direction.

Keith.

That's a long winded way of saying the leader who is able to check that ego, even display a little vulnerability, recognize they don't have all the answers and be open and transparent about that.

Something that was really awkward and uncomfortable for me, that level of transparency, vulnerability.

And of course again, to set that ego aside, they're all prerequisites to living and leading in this fashion.

But it's not a one and done thing.

It's every single.

And I'm still far.

I've lived with these principles in my life now for eight years and I still have lapses where I catch myself.

Hang on, man, you're not, you're not living true to your principles.

So it's not, it is a constant work in progress.

But it must start with that self reflection.

What am I doing?

Am I the person that I want to be?

Am I the leader that I want to Be.

What's my leadership legacy going to be?

Am I having an impact or am I just checking boxes?

So I think that that level of self reflection is critical.

But now I'm dying to hear what the data said from your three year effort.

Well, it's funny you mentioned authoritatively because those are the ones that struggled most to lead their organization through change.

Yeah.

I'll give you a guess as to which one was the most effective between transformational servant leadership or skill based servant.

No, that was my initial reaction that servant leaders would be best.

They didn't.

Transformational.

Transformational was servant leaders struggled because they put people first.

Too far.

Right.

When people push back about the change, they tend to pour into the people to make them feel more comfortable.

Transformational leaders tended to transform the people around the MAGNA organization because they're focused on the bigger picture.

Yeah.

The way you frame it makes so much more sense.

Servant.

Yeah.

You can't be, you know, there's such thing as being too much of a servant leader.

Right, Right.

It's.

It's when you kind of lose sight of the trees because the forest is just so thick.

But I love the transformation.

I love that answer.

Thank you for sharing that.

Because it's not about necessarily trend.

You don't transform organizations, you don't transform teams, transform people and you help people.

Right.

So that's the difference.

Yeah.

Thank you for sharing that.

I also added charismatic leader, which is really narcissistic leader to the study.

But I didn't put narcissistic under because no one's going to say, yes, I'm a narcissistic leader.

But they were really good at casting vision that people wanted to follow because their personality drove the change where they struggled with implementing it.

Once it got to the part in the weeds part.

Yeah.

Which by the way, I think makes some of the greatest leaders in all of business and probably sports as well.

They have this degree of I know what I'm good at.

I know what I'm not good at.

A perfect example.

I did some work with a marketing company up in the panhandle of Florida.

Who's CEO, the founder.

Brilliant guy, Visionary.

Can predict, can see things that are coming before they come.

He is really, really a brilliant man.

But he also knows he can't operate out of a wet paper bag.

Like he knows he doesn't do the.

He doesn't communicate bad news well.

He doesn't handle conflict well.

He is the classic visionary.

But when it comes to execution, it's just not his thing.

But he's smart enough to know that, and he hires people around him that can take those things that he's not good at and run with him.

Um, so I think that's, I think it's great to be a charismatic leader.

It's not a prerequisite, it's not a requirement to be an effective leader.

Right.

It's not.

I mean, it's kind of a nice to have.

But some of the most, I think impactful leaders are understated and introverted.

But I, I, I am, I'm, I, I, I do think it's, we get into trouble when we have these blind spots and don't acknowledge them.

And that's where I think I lived for a long time.

I also think charismatic leaders are very close to being cult leaders.

So you have to be very careful not to push over from being visionary to cult.

So.

Yeah, well said.

Especially in today's day and age.

Yeah, well said.

Good point.

Right.

So I'm curious, as you think about the 10 we's, how do those differ from traditional leadership principles?

Oh, man.

Because they're, they, they began as personal to me and for your audience.

I don't, I don't, I don't, I certainly don't want to come across as if I've, I've, I've cracked the code for leadership, because that's impossible.

It's, it just doesn't exist.

There's no hack.

But for me, what was, what was has been so transformational is saying, okay, here, here are 10 sentences that will insulate us from just about anything.

And they set a standard.

They set a standard for, number one, how we are supposed to behave and treat one another.

Because I think most organizations do a great job when they hire somebody.

For the most part, hey, here's how you do the job.

Here are the standard operating procedures.

Here's the nuts and bolts, the blocking and tackling of what you need to know to do your job.

But I think most organizations are woefully short and saying, welcome to the team.

Here's how we expect you to behave, here's how we expect you to behave, and here's what happens when we do that.

So the way I frame it is for, for teams that I lead, also for teams that I work with in my practice now, it's like, do you, first of all, do you agree with all these 10 principles?

I've yet to find someone that says we don't agree with.

We do the right thing.

We lead by example all the way through number 10.

No one's going to disagree.

Okay.

So you agree with them.

That means you're now subscribed.

Because remember, a principle, by definition, is our.

It is our system of beliefs or a system for a chain of reasoning.

It's like why we do what we do, which is very different than a mission statement or a value statement.

I think it's completely different.

Those are all good for external facing parties.

Behind the scenes is where we need our code of conduct.

It's how we.

It's how we're going to treat one another, get things done.

So when you get a team to subscribe to a series of fundamental beliefs, our foundation for a chain of reasoning, they're all aligned.

Okay.

You subscribe to the team.

Yep.

Perfect.

We're not going to be.

We're not going to be perfect, but we're all on the same page with how we're going to behave.

So the first time someone stumbles, you.

You have this thing called we pick each other up.

We number six.

You walk up to them and you say, literally, hey, man, I recognize your performance isn't where it's historically been.

And, you know, you've been out a lot lately.

I can tell there's something weighing on you.

I can see it on your face.

And I just need you to know we pick each other up.

I'm here for you.

So it creates this nomenclature that allows people to be a little more vulnerable, Similar to like, hey, man, I see you're struggling, and we challenge each other.

Right.

So I just.

I.

I'm here to help you, but recognizing that where you are today from a performance perspective is not what we need.

So I'm gonna.

I want to challenge you to be better, you know, and then have the data or experience.

So they're different in that they are relatable.

No one will disagree with any one of the principles.

They are actionable.

They're not this.

They're not some lofty, sexy mission statement to which no one can relate.

These are all things that someone says, yeah, that makes sense to me.

I'm comfortable with that.

I can live that which makes them.

Which makes calling people out when they don't live it that much easier because you've already said, this is something I can subscribe to and be a part of.

So I've teased the audience long enough with what the 10 weeds are.

Could you kind of walk us through what those.

I'm sure they're going, man, those sound really cool.

What are they?

And so I wanted to kind of make sure people stood through.

Through at least 30 minutes.

Into the podcast so you could tell us what the 10 Wes are.

Yeah, I, I'd be happy to.

It's, it's, it's an honor and a privilege to share it with your audience.

And I have to give two caveats anytime I run through them, actually, one caveat, one favor.

The cave.

The first caveat is, and I touched on it earlier, it's as I read through these or walk through these members of your audience, I can almost hear it.

I'm going to hear, well, of course that's a no brainer.

Duh.

That's who we are.

But I would challenge those that have that reaction.

And it's a fair reaction.

Think of leaders from your past.

Think of how you've approached your leadership game.

If you, if you would consider yourself a leader.

And, and do I practice this every single day?

And the answer's got to be no, because nobody's perfect.

But more importantly, it gives us something to lean back into and say, okay, I'm not the leader I wanted to be, or I'm not behaving in the way that I'm most proud to be behaving.

I have something to lean back into now, something to get me back on course.

That's the caveat.

Like it's, you can have simple, you can have easy, but simple is not easy.

And then the favor is this.

And this is the most.

Candidly, my man, the most beautiful unintended byproduct of my work is the impact that principles are having on people's personal lives.

I've had complete strangers reach out to me to say they're changing how I raise my children.

They're changing how I interact with those that I care about, my relationships, my friends and family.

So work's great, Kyle, appreciate the 10 weeks for that.

But they have changed who I am outside of work.

I've chills just saying that.

But okay, so that's, that's the caveat and that's the favor.

The favor is consider it through your personal lens, not just as an employee or person with a job.

Your worker.

How might these arm you and equip you for a more fulfilling life?

On the personal side?

Okay, that's awesome.

So we.

Number one is the most fundamental and again, the most simple of them all.

It's we do the right thing always.

And I never leave out that one word.

Second, second sentence of always.

We can disagree on what the right thing is.

The right thing is certainly subjective, depending on the scenario, but we will be aligned, that no matter what circumstances thrown our way we're going to do the right thing right by our employees, right by those we serve, our customers, right by our team.

You know, and I walk leaders, I walk the reader through some kind of decision trees on how to ultimately land on the right thing in the book.

But that's the foundation.

We're going to come out of the gate no matter what, do the right thing.

Now, as a leader in a high functioning team, or a member of a high functioning team, for me, I think the best way to exhibit that I'm going to do the right thing is to lead by example.

And it's such a cliche.

And we always think, well, you know, should I lead by example?

You already are leading by example.

That's the question.

Am I leading by an example that I would be proud to see it replicated?

If my mother were to watch how I behaved in a one on one with a difficult employee or the way I conducted myself in a town hall or a focus group, you know, what does that filter for you to say?

Yeah, I can be proud of that.

And that exact behavior would be wonderful if it were replicated throughout our company.

Or is the opposite happening?

I'm behaving in a way that I'd be so embarrassed to see someone mimic that behavior.

So we gotta lead by example.

And to lead by example, I think it's, it's the number one way to lead by example is to make good on your promises.

We, number three is we say what we're going to do and then we do it too.

Many times throughout my career, you know, you kind of assign something to someone or maybe you've been assigned something and delivery time rolls around and well, I emailed so and so or I'm waiting to have a meeting with so and so and these excuses that, that don't help us.

And I look at it this way.

When we make a commitment to someone that we serve, our customers, our clients, it's almost a given that we're going to deliver that commitment.

It shouldn't be any different behind the scenes.

If I commit to do something for you, as your leader, I will deliver on that.

And if you can commit to do something for me or other members of the team, we keep those promises.

That's our brand.

So we say what we're going to do and then we do it now.

Excuse me.

The key to being effective at that we is, is layered.

And we, number four, we take action.

I truly believe, Keith, that taking action and making a mistake is quite all right.

I don't judge people that way.

But being idle is no good.

I mentioned it earlier.

When we see an opportunity inside of our team or our organization or in our friendships and family, we don't turn a cheek.

We take action.

We address it.

And in a corporate setting, that might be something as simple as, hey, boss, I recognize this process is broken over here and it's having an adverse effect on, on our, on our customers.

Even if it means more work for me, I got to raise my hand and do that.

I'm not naive.

The incentive for most people to do that in most organizations is not there.

So that's why it's on the leader to say, well, for us to be excellent, you got to take action.

But when people on the team take action, they can't fear what the retribution or blowback might be if they make a mistake.

So we, number five is we own our mistakes.

I just think if we recognize our mistakes as fuel and opportunities for improvement, we're more likely to raise our hand.

And that's when it's so important for members of the team, especially the leader, to be tough on the problem.

They've identified the mistake that they've made, not the person.

Be tough on the mistake.

How do we get out of this?

Because I don't think most people judge.

We don't judge one another by mistakes.

I really believe that we judge them by how quickly they remedy the mistake.

And if it repeats itself, mistakes are going to happen.

But usually in the corporate world or, you know, companies of all sizes, if somebody raises their hand to, to voice a mistake, it's going to get met with a smack.

So what do you do?

You hide the mistakes.

And that's, that's, that's no way ach to achieve excellence.

But when those mistakes are made, we jump right into we.

Number six, I mentioned it earlier.

We pick each other up.

And there are two components to this.

We.

It's not just we pick someone up when they're struggling.

The second and maybe just as important component is when someone has expressed a desire to take on more, do more, perhaps even leave your team or leave your company.

It's our obligation to help them achieve and reach new heights.

It's not enough to just pick someone up when they're down.

We have to invest our time and energy in helping people become what they want to be.

And a really quick kind of anecdote to this is if a member of your team expresses a desire to go somewhere else, maybe they want your job, maybe they want to join a competitor because it'll, it'll Improve their standard of living and allow them to do things with and for their family they weren't, they weren't able to do.

Maybe it's a title thing, who knows?

But when they've made that decision, most of us, at least throughout my career, we turn a cheek to that person because we know they're a short timer and I'm not going to invest my energy in them and they're going to be gone.

It's incredibly, it's an incredible mistake because when you say, hey, Keith, I recognize you want to go do something else and I'm going to help you get there.

I'll do a mock interview with you.

I'll help you with your resume.

Do you think I don't expect you to work less hard the next day?

You now realize I care more about you and your journey than I do about what you can do for our team.

So the loyalty that's created when you, when you help someone and, and let them know that you're in this for them, not just for the results they can deliver, boy, the bond is really strong at that point.

So we got to pick each other up.

Now we number seven through 10, it gets a little tougher.

And this is, we've touched on a couple of these, but we number seven is we measure ourselves by outcomes, not activity.

Most organizations, leaders and of all levels and folks that are even individual contributors for whatever reasons it's, they conflate busyness and activity with actual progress.

In my coaching business now I'll have executives I've had, I recently had an executive rotate their laptop to me so I could see their screen to say, kyle, do you see this calendar?

I'm double booked four times.

Tomorrow, I'm triple booked twice.

That doesn't impress me.

As a matter of fact, I think in most organizations we have a very clear and discreet list of objectives for which we're held accountable.

And I say if the activity you're engaged in every single day does not directly contribute to delivering on those outcomes, it should be scrutinized.

Why am I in this meeting if it doesn't help those outcomes?

Why am I being asked to do X, Y or Z if it doesn't help this outcome?

And that's when it's important to challenge each other.

So we number eight follows that and it's we challenge each other.

I've touched on it.

I think it's the most important of all the principles.

But it's nothing without we.

Nine, that's we embrace challenge.

And then lastly, it's it's it's.

I was purposeful to leave this as the last principle because I feel like if it were any earlier in the list, we would.

It's a recipe for disappointment.

And we number 10 is we obsess over details.

In most industries, most businesses, the difference between really great and average or really great and excellent is the details.

My favorite example is Apple.

Anytime you open a product from Apple, the unboxing experience is incredibly fulfilling.

The tape that's on there, the way the boxes fit together.

Apple spends millions of dollars and untold number of hours for their engineers locked in rooms to create the best and most the sexiest unpackaging experience.

Contrast that with ikea, the instruction manual for Ikea, or how you assemble things from ikea.

It's like, it's so unclear, it's so opaque.

It's really hard to follow at times.

Another example is when you buy something from Amazon.

I've had this happen too many times.

You open the instruction manual, it's in, it's got poor grammar or doesn't make sense or it's misaligned like these.

They didn't take a lot of care with those details.

So what message does that send?

When I open a really sexy iPhone package, it's almost a guarantee the product inside is going to be magical.

When I open a package from Amazon, who hasn't taken the time, whose seller hasn't taken the time to really invest the energy and level of obsession of detail to communicate such a similar experience, I have likewise a less optimistic view of this product that I'm about to open.

Details matter a whole heck of a lot.

So obsessing over details, I think is what really, at the end of the day, compels us, us and propels us to achieve excellence.

I love those 10 weeks.

Thanks, thanks for sharing those because I know people were not just kind of sitting there going, he hasn't told us what those are yet.

So, yeah, yeah, it was intentional audience.

It was intentional.

Cliffhanger.

Cliffhanger.

I love to ask my guests, this is my second favorite question.

Yeah.

What do you want your legacy to be.

Man?

I, I want to be remembered as a guy who really placed an overt emphasis on helping others.

I tend to, with maybe a touch of arrogance.

I do tend to feel like I'm an incredibly empathetic person.

And I, and I try to put myself in other people's shoes.

And I think with that comes, you know, the, the labeling, if you will, of, of someone who genuinely cares about others.

I, I, I value, I value connection And I value authentic bonds.

And overall, more than anything, I value authenticity.

So.

And with that comes some detractors because sometimes I'm known to say things that might rub others the wrong way, but it's never personal.

It's.

It's typically how I.

It's usually represented with data or experience.

And it's almost.

Not almost.

It is always with an eye on improvement.

Not just in a business sense, but if I share something with you that might rub you the wrong way, of course I'm going to try to deliver that diplomatically.

But it's not to put, to put you down or build me up.

It's to point out an opportunity that, you know, maybe the experiences I've had might help you get more out of this thing, whatever that thing is, if it's work, your personal life, whatever it is.

So I think my, I would love, when I'm long gone, I would love for people to say, man, that dude really cared.

He cared about others.

I love that.

So what key takeaways do you want the audience to leave from our conversation today?

Keith, what do you want your legacy to be, though, man?

I love that question.

I would love to hear your answer.

Yeah, no, it was funny.

My.

I want my legacy to be kind of like you.

But first of all, that he loved Jesus and that he helped other people love him too.

Because that's why I went into ministry, so that people would just understand the breadth and the depth of how much they are loved and valued by our God.

Very cool.

Thank you for sharing.

Okay, sorry, what was that?

Next question.

No, what key takeaways you want the audience to leave from our conversation today?

You don't have to hate your job.

You don't.

There is a better way.

There is a way.

And that's the question I used to ask myself all the.

Is there a better way?

I used to ask that a lot and I, I was never certain of the answer.

I think principle.

Living a principle based life, approaching your work with principles in the front of your mind is, Is a way to remove the sense of apathy that so many of us feel for a variety of reasons, especially in our work lives.

I think it's a way to reconnect with that optimism and the passion and enthusiasm that we first entered the workforce with.

But it doesn't come without its sacrifices.

And it's just like everything else in life, man, if you want something worth having, got to put in the work, you gotta, you gotta burn the calories, you gotta run the miles.

So if you want a better Experience in your work life.

Aligning around principles and aligning others around you on those same principles can be an incredibly profound experience.

But it comes, it must come at the expense of a lot of work and a lot of focus, dedication.

You know, people want different experiences but they're not willing in some case, many cases, to do the work, to live that experience.

And I just, I must, and I'll close with this on that question, man, it's we, we, we.

I think so many of us end up being wired to think that.

Go to work, go home, lather, rinse, repeat, do it for 40 years.

A hundred thousand hours of our lives on average is spent working.

And they've just, many of us, me included, until the last seven or eight years, resigned ourselves that this is how this big engine works.

But here's the point that I can never gloss over is we all have commitments, we all have bills and we got families to take care of.

So if you find yourself in a position where work is not, you're not enthusiastic about it, you're not passionate about it, you're not, you're not fulfilled and you make that decision to not do anything differently, good on you.

I respect that.

Because those commitments, they don't go away just because you've decided to live a principle based life or want to find an organization that embraces those principles or similar principles.

I'm not naive to that.

And that means it might take, if you're really curious to find another side, it might take taking one or two steps back, to take three or four steps forward.

And if that's not in the cards for you, all the respect in the world.

I just know that if you are interested and you feel as if there is something better that can give you more fulfillment, allow you to have a greater impact, chase that and I end every keynote with that.

We all have a choice.

The choice is yours to either continue the path that you're on, the choice is yours to maybe find a different approach.

The choice is yours to do nothing, whatever.

But you got to make a choice in choosing a different approach, a different way of thinking, a different way of behaving, a different way of bonding with those around you and your teams and your friends and family.

It all comes after a choice is made.

And that choice is the first step.

That's awesome.

Give us the name of your book again and where can they find your book and buy it?

Thank you.

It's begin with we 10 principles for building and Sustaining a Culture of Excellence.

It's available wherever books are sold Amazon tends to be the easiest place to find it.

It's available in Kindle, Hard Copy, paperback, and my favorite is the audio version.

I narrated the book Terrible Experience, by the way, being stuck in a studio for seven hours a day for probably a little over a week.

But and then all of my socials are the same Kyle McDowell, Inc.

And my website is also Kyle McDowell, Inc.

And I consider it an option a real privilege to join you and I appreciate you giving me the opportunity especially to share those platforms because I love to hear from readers.

I love to hear from people, like minded people, those that might be considering a different way of approaching what it is that they do.

And those social channels and my website allow me to do that.

So thank you, Kyle.

Thanks for spending an hour with me talking about leadership as one of my favorite topics.

And you have before us given us some real tools to look at leadership from a real personal way that kind of internalizes what is kind of rolling around inside of us that helps us to be not only better leaders but also better people, better parents, better fathers, better spouses.

Sometimes out of those moments come our greatest revelation.

So thanks for sharing that with the world.

Well, and thank you for the great work you're doing, my man.

I appreciate the opportunity again and keep at it.

I'm I'm proud to have joined you, pleased to have met you, and grateful.

Thank you.