Special Co-Host Harry Walker on His Doctor Who Obsession: From Eccleston to Today

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Episode 412 • 11th October 2024 • The Doctor Who Big Blue Box Podcast • The Big Blue Box Podcast

Garry: 00:00:19

Hey, hey, hey. Who fans, and welcome to the Big Blue Box podcast. My name's Garry.

Harry: 00:00:23

My name's Harry.

Garry: 00:00:25

And this is episode 412. Welcome who fans for another episode.

We hope you are keeping safe and well, we hope you've had a cracking week and that you've all managed to do something Doctor.

Harry: 00:00:55

Doctor who related.

Garry: 00:01:03

As Harry is the guest. Yeah, I'll let you have that one, dude. Guests first and all that. So, listener, welcome back to another episode. We've been away for a couple of weeks.

We've had. So Adam, my regular co host, as you well know by now, is back in the US.

He spends some of his time here in the UK and then the other time over in the US. So he's over there. And then as soon as he arrived, he went off on some travels and a bit of a vacation and all that stuff. So he's not being around.

And I use that as an excuse to have a couple of weeks off to plan some content and do some other bits and pieces. So you will notice also that this is not Adam's voice to accompany me this week.

It is, though, my co host, my guest co host for this week is Harry, Harry Walker, who you would have heard many times, the roundtable episodes with the other guys, and you would have read his articles and stuff on the website. So I'm joined this week for 412 by Harry. How are you? Good, sir.

Harry: 00:02:05

Oh, Garry, I'm good, I'm good. I gotta say, it's slightly different than the usual roundtable. You know, I've got about four times the amount of work to do, but. No, this is great.

Thank you. Thank you very much for having me on. Yeah. Garry and Ari.

Garry: 00:02:20

Hey, Garry and Harry. Oh, it's a pleasure, dude. It's a pleasure. So over the next few weeks. Yeah.

You will hear from each of the guys who accompany us on the roundtable, the writing team, basically, to throw down their mic skills on the old weekly apps. So the format of these episodes will be no different than the usual run of the mill for the weekly episodes.

We're gonna have a bunch of news stories to talk through. The only difference is there won't be a review episode story to go through.

But I will be throwing a load of questions at Harry this week to do a bit of a deep dive into Harry's history with Doctor who and his experiences from the early days up until now, and then the future of Doctor who and his thoughts on all that stuff. So a bit of a hybrid episode, which is going to be very cool.

And before before we get onto all of that stuff, dude, have you done anything Doctor who related this week or since the last roundtable a few weeks ago?

Harry: 00:03:28

Um, I'm trying to think if I've done anything who related since the last round table. I don't think so.

I mean, Doctor who, Doctor who magazine arrived in the post today and it was a really cool one because it actually came with a free target book. It came with the paperback copy of the evil of the Daleks by Fraser Hines.

And it's the novelization of the repeat of the story that they did in the sixties, where Jamie is sort of recounting the events of the story to Zoe. And Fraser Hines obviously plays Jamie. He's written it himself. I didn't buy the initial release. I think it was last year.

So it's really cool that it's come with the magazine. And yeah, I'm looking forward to giving that a read. And Paul McGann is on the COVID of this month.

Obviously, this is a podcast, so, you know, listeners won't be able to see it, but I'm sure you can have a Google. He's looking like a Bobby Dazzler on the tardis there from, I think it was from the stuff of legend, which the guys reviewed last time.

So that was pretty cool.

And, yeah, in terms of, like, who episodes recently, I've watched some perturb because I was up to Trouton in my marathon and I kind of fell off trout in a little bit. So I thought I'm going to just skip a little bit forward to the seventies just to like, mix up a bit.

And for the very first time recently, I watched the mind of evil, which was a really good episode.

Garry: 00:05:03

Okay.

Harry: 00:05:03

And I, funnily enough, I went back and listened to yours and Adam's review from a few years ago for that one. And you raised it highly. And it was, yeah, it was fun to, like, watch the episode and then listen to your guys thoughts.

You're planning on doing like a episode y spreadsheet type thing so that listeners can do that in the future. Am I mistaken?

Garry: 00:05:26

No, you're correct. Yeah. Yes, we are. We're on the precipice of launching a new website. So I've been chipping away it slowly over the last few months as a side project.

And as part of that new website, there'll be a page with a.

A big old table on there, but will list every single episode or story of Doctor who and then our corresponding podcast episode where we reviewed that story so you can check the score and listen to it. So that'll be helpful. We get that all the time, dude. I think we've had that.

That's probably the one question we've had directed at me and Adam for years now. He's like, when can we see a list of, like, all of your episodes that correspond to the. The story so we can do it? So, yeah, that is coming.

It's just going to be probably a month or two away before that launches. So I'm in the run up to Christmas. That'll probably launch. Yeah.

Harry: 00:06:20

Nice. I'm looking forward to that myself. Yeah, that should be cool.

Garry: 00:06:24

So, dude, you have dived into some who this week, which is good.

Harry: 00:06:30

Yeah.

Garry: 00:06:31

I like it. The poet we use. Nice. I've had very quiet time with Doctor. The only thing I've done is on the last.

A couple of weeks ago, the last episode that Adam and I recorded, we spoke very briefly about the. Something to do with the tv movie. I can't remember what it was. We mentioned it somewhere in the episode. And so that got me thinking.

I'd not seen it in quite a while. So that's the only thing I've watched is the tv movie, the McGann. Nice, nice tv movie.

And then I think actually, when the guys were on the last roundtable, the guys were talking about the live show, the stuff of legend and Megan and stuff. And I think that got me thinking about the tv movie as well. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sunday McGann. It was very cool.

Harry: 00:07:21

Just made me remember I. On the Sunday that the guys went to see the stuff of legend, I was. I was a bit disappointed that I didn't.

I wasn't able to make it on that day, so I actually stuck on the tv movie that night. I actually rewatched it. I forgot I did that until you just mentioned it. And it's. Yeah, it's just great, isn't it?

I know it's kind of rubbish, but it's. It's just lovely.

Garry: 00:07:50

Yeah, it's got. It's got a certain. I don't know that there's probably a french phrase that describes the, um. The genesis quoi.

Harry: 00:08:02

Maybe I'm buttering that. Yeah.

Garry: 00:08:04

Yeah, something like that. It's essential, I think there's lots of different adjectives you can use to describe the tv movie or phrases.

But, you know, over the years, you've heard, you know, it's like it's a marmite thing or it's an acquired taste. Whatever you want to call it. It definitely has, um. Yeah, it definitely. I mean, I'm a big fan of it. I don't think it's, um.

I don't think it's the best doctor who that's ever been put out there by. By a long shot. But at the same time, I don't think it's the worst. I think it's got just a certain kind of feel to it that's. That's different enough.

I think a lot of people are turned off from the tv movie because it's got this kind of. It's got this american flavor to it. You know, it feels like. I guess that's kind of obvious because of the production.

And I think it was filmed in Canada or the US or combination of the two. Vancouver. Yeah. So it does have this. Of course, that's a canadian thing. I don't.

You know, to our canadian listeners, you know, I'm not saying that it's the same thing as the US, but it just has this sort of. Let me rephrase it. It's got this northern american flavor to it.

Harry: 00:09:19

I think in.

I think the movie, like, the story is actually set in America, but I think it was just filmed in Canada, so it makes sense that it has like, an american feel.

Garry: 00:09:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And any of the.

Anyone that's old enough to have watched all of those sort of american sitcoms or just general tv shows from that time period, it fits into that sort of ilk quite. Quite well. It's got that feel to it. So I think that more than anything, puts. Puts people off.

I think over the years, the british audience has been very much like, this is our show. This is a british television show, and it should always be that and stuff.

So when you deviate from that, I think you get, you know, a little bit of, um. Yeah, you get some. Some backlash, I guess. But, uh, overall, I think the tv movie is pretty good. I love the, um. I love McGann in it.

I love the soundtrack. I love the. I love the TarDis interior. It's got some really cool elements to it. So, um.

Yeah, we'll have to re review that one because Adam and I reviewed it many moons ago, but I've seen it, like, a handful of times since then. And I'd love to get you guys on to do a proper deep dive on it as well because I think there's. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's quite a lot of stuff in there that you could. You could. You know, you and I could probably chat about this for another hour or two. Just a tv movie, so.

Harry: 00:10:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Garry: 00:10:52

But now you and I have both watched it then. Nice. Yeah, like it. All righty. That's what Harry's been up to. It always amazes me with these guys, by the way, listener.

Like, when Adam and I record very frequently, unless we've had, like, a new Blu ray box set land or we've, you know, bagged a new bit of merch or gone to an event or something, we'll often say, if you've done anything who related. And we'll be like, no, no, not really. Fairly quiet.

Whenever I ask that question to these guys, they just reel off like five or six things, like every single week or fortnight that they're doing Doctor who related. And that's why they're the best in the biz at what they do when they.

When they write about Doctor who and talk about Doctor who and, you know, events and whatnot.

Harry: 00:11:42

That's why they probably just shows that you and Adam have a life. And, well, speaking for myself, I'm just obsessed. I don't think about anything else or watch anything else.

I, you know, I tried to start, like, other tv shows, I think. What was it I tried to watch recently? I can't remember, but I try, you know, try to pick other things up. I don't get along with them.

I just end up watching Doctor who again. I end up watching the tv movie for the 20th time, you know?

Garry: 00:12:11

Yeah, well, it's a healthy obsession.

Harry: 00:12:14

That's true. There are worse things to be obsessed with.

Garry: 00:12:16

Yeah. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So, yeah, these guys are very cool. And a nice one, dude, for the who that you've been up with, been up to.

So before we get on to the news, just want to remind you, Lotso, if you're one of the grizzled ancients, one of the long time listeners, then welcome back, of course.

But if this is the first time you're listening to the podcast or you're a recent listener and you haven't yet followed or subscribed to us in your favorite podcast app of choice, make sure you do that so you don't miss any of the weekly episodes when we're not having a break. Of course, they go out every single Friday.

And then also once a month, we put out a bonus episode, which is the round table where we draft in these guys. And we. We have a good old chin wag about anything we like about Doctor who. So make sure you are following or subscribing.

That way you won't miss any of that content. You can also listen for free over on the website. Which is Bigblueboxpodcast dot co dot UK.

All the podcast episodes are there, plus all the reviews and event reports and editorials on these guys there. You can read all that stuff as well. We have a very cool blog over there as well. There are also links to the socials.

We're on the usual stuff, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram threads, all that come and get involved over there. We chat Doctor who throughout the week in between episodes.

And we also have a very cool free discord server which is full of really cool who fans talking about who stuff all the time. Like whenever I go into the server and. And see what's going on, there's just a. Something being talked about all the time, every day.

So it's really cool. So hop in there and chat Doctor who with other cool who fans. There's a link on the website for that and that will drop you in there. Also.

It would be even though Adam's not here, we have to plug the old fellas. He had a birthday recently, the old fellas YouTube channel. Don't forget to remember to go and check that out.

It's called the Geeks handbag over on YouTube. There's a link in the description and on the website. Just go and check out Adam's stuff. Loads of doctor who content and geekery over there.

And you can find him on the socials too, under the same name, the Geeks handbag.

Harry: 00:14:23

Geeks handbag. It's great with a cup of tea, I've heard, watching one of our correct YouTube videos. Yes.

Garry: 00:14:30

Yep. Grab yourself a brew, get comfy and check out all that stuff. So, dude, we are gonna land the old girl and do some decent news.

Harry: 00:14:40

Alrighty.

Garry: 00:14:54

First up we have Carol Anne Ford has been speaking recently at a convention. Where was she? She was at Luton Comic Con, of all places. Didn't realize Lucan did a comic con. That's cool. Yeah, that's cool. And.

Right, so she was there and obviously asked in these Q and a's and all this stuff. I think she's been asked this question a lot, not even recently, like for, you know, decades, if she's coming back to. To star in. In the main.

In the main show.

And I don't know about you, dude, but I've always found this absolutely fascinating and surprising and borderline upsetting that, uh, she's never been in like any of the big anniversary stories, especially the 50th or the 60th that just rolled by. I've always found it crazy that as, you know, the. As a surviving cast member from the original first episode, and let's be honest, right?

She's, she's, she is knocking on a little bit. Let's, let's be honest.

However, she still looks fantastic and she's still got all of her marbles and all that stuff, so it's crazy how she's not been involved, but she. She was asked about it and she said that. She said, I don't know if I could survive the excitement. It would be intense, be all intensity, she said.

She goes on to say, it's not just returning. It would bring back all the memories. William Russell and Jackie and Bill and various other people who aren't with us anymore.

I might be a little overcome and start blubbing. And then she went on to say that I keep being reminded that I'm the last one standing and it's not something that I'm happy to hear.

And then she goes on to say about the challenge of reintroducing her character after her being away for such a long time. She explains that he said he'd come back and get me and never did. She's referring, obviously, to the first doctor.

She said I'd give him a good telling off if I saw him again. I understand their dilemma, how difficult it must be to write. For me, it has been 60 years since I was first in it.

She said, I've met Russell a few times and I absolutely adore him. He is the man that would be the boss man to say yes or no. So hopefully it's going to be a yes. So, mate, for.

I know she's been asked this question, you know, like I said a few times, but this is the most recent interview or Q and A, where she's actually said more than just a throwaway line of like, yeah, it'd be cool one day, and that's it. She's actually gone into a little bit more detail about how her character would be written back in. She's hoping to do it and all that stuff.

So, mate, first of all, two questions for you. Number one, are you just as surprised that she hasn't been involved in anything yet?

And number two, would you like to see Susan back in some shape or form?

Harry: 00:18:05

Well, first question. Yeah, massively surprised. I mean, I thought she was going to be in the 50th and I was hoping that she was going to be in the 60th.

And none of those transpired. Obviously, she was in the five doctors, but I. It was astounding to me that, you know, after the way she left in Dalek.

Dalek invasion of Earth, we didn't have that moment. We didn't have that moment of, like, Susan saying, why didn't you come back? Why has it been so long? You know, that kind of thing.

And I feel like that's what fans kind of want to see. So, yeah, I'm astounded that Ian Chesterton came back before Susan Foreman. That's not a future that I imagined would end up happening.

Do I want to see her back? Yeah, 100%. I mean, it's interesting because she obviously says a lot more here.

She was at Hooverville and I went to Hooverville as well, and she was asked the exact same question and she just kind of said, I'm not going to say anything because no matter what I say, if I say nothing, then people are going to speculate. So I'm just going to keep my mouth shut kind of thing.

And, yeah, I write more about it in my article, which I'm going to send over to your good self, Garry, at the weekend, so you'll be able to read that real soon, listener. But this answer here in this article sounds to me, and this is just where I'm coming from, it sounds to me that she's already done it.

She's already in season two. They've already filmed a thing.

She's coming back for the finale of that season, and she's already had that experience of remembering Jackie and remembering Bill Hartnell and William Russell. That, to me, sounds like she's recalling a memory and she's already done a bit for season two. I could be wrong.

I mean, you're hearing from the same guy who thought that all of the doctors were going to be in the 60th anniversary specials and it was just David Tennanthe. So, you know, I'm by no means saying that I'm 100% convinced that's what's happening. But I wouldn't be surprised if she's.

I mean, the way they built her up in the last finale. Like, I would be massively surprised if they just keep snubbing us of that, of that return, if I'm being honest.

And, yeah, as morbid as it is, and we don't want to be morbid, but, you know, she is knocking on a bit, so it would be nice to, to, you know, bring that character back and finally have that payoff, you know, payoff that has been in waiting for the last 60 years.

Garry: 00:20:48

Yes, totally agree, dude. So you think that she's already done some, some filming and stuff? You think this is like a bit of foreshadowing because she's actually done this?

This is more of a recall rather than a request.

Harry: 00:21:03

I think she's definitely trying to misdirect. I mean, Caroline Ford has been in the biz for decade, so, you know, she knows what she's doing and she knows how to navigate this. But I.

Yeah, I would not be surprised at all if this is just her talking from her experience on set and she's already done a bit for the next season because why else would she have been such a huge focus in, you know, empire of death? Like it. That. That, to me, makes the most sense. Yeah.

Garry: 00:21:32

Yeah.

Harry: 00:21:33

I could be wrong. I could be wrong. You know, I hope I'm not, because I want to see Susan, but.

Garry: 00:21:37

Yeah, yeah, like you're saying it's nuts that she's not been. She's not been back for a big anniversary, um, episode yet, so I think she's long overdue a trip back to the tardis. So we'll see, man.

But, uh, fairly positive, though, from her.

Like you were saying, she gets asked that question a lot and she normally just sort of, you know, dismisses it with a, you know, I don't want to say anything because if I say anything, you'll. You'll take that as I'm coming back. If I don't say anything, you'll take it as I'm coming back. So she normally sort of skirts around it and moves on.

So this is. This is pretty cool. So we'll. We'll keep you updated. Listener, of course, if we hear any more about Carol Anne Ford being involved in the.

In the show, but for now, we've got a little bit more of a positive nugget than we've. That we've had in a long time. So that'll be fairly cool. Fast forwarding, dude, to the future and current doctor who.

We have some new figures announced by character. Character options. Are they still called?

Harry: 00:22:40

Yeah, they are, yeah. So, character toys, it says here.

Garry: 00:22:45

Character toys. Oh, it does say. Well, we'll come on to this in a second.

So this article, which I've grabbed from the official Doctor who website, says character and BBC studios are proud to announce to fans and collectors that the 15th Doctor and Ruby Sunday action figures will join the ranks of their other incarnations, companions and foes on shelves everywhere soon.

The announcement comes along with images of these latest Vortex edition characters and as a contradiction of what they've just said about these being on shelves, you'll be able to order this online, exclusively on the character website on October 17. And it's kind of weird that they say that it's going to. Yeah, I don't know. But anyway, this is why I say, is it called carriage options?

Because it says, Catherine Ludlum, character options brand manager, said, since the first appearance at London Toy Fair, we have been inundated with requests about the release of the 15th Doctor and Ruby Sunday figures.

We are delighted to confirm that the figures will be available in two formats, an exclusive bundle pack from character online and as individual packs with alternative decoration at mass retail, both launching later in the year.

These generation three figures feature a higher specification decoration for extra detail, and features include internal pivots on the neck and ankles, Ball jointed waist and shoulders, as well as internal pins on the arms and legs. So I'm assuming this is a step up then, from the previous line of figures that they've released, it sounds like these gen three ones.

I would guess I could be wrong. I'm no figure expert these days, but I'm guessing that the previous ones were gen two and didn't have this extra articulation, etcetera.

They then go on to say that in this exclusive online version of these figures, there is the 15th Doctor in his tan coat with orange striped shirt, blue trousers and red and black trainers. The Doctor's accessories include the blue sonic landmine from the episode Boom and ubiquitous psychic paper.

Meanwhile, the ruby Sunday figure is presented as she looked in her debut story, dressed in red jumper, tartan skorts as well as her black bomber jacket, and comes with her mobile phone and shoulder bag accessories. The online exclusive set features specially designed packaging to allow the figures to be opened and played with or repacked for display.

Each figure is individually boxed and then beautifully sleeved together as a single purchase. A sturdy transit box is used to protect this unique set.

And then lastly, a mass retail version will be available shortly afterwards in single fuse blister carded packs with the 15th doctor shirt in teal ocean green trousers and tan shoes, whilst Ruby Sunday is dressed in a denim jacket, blue skorts and cream jumper. So let me have a look on the old character website. And these are gonna be. Yeah, so 40 squids, 39.99 british pounds. That's not set you back?

Yeah, I mean, it's not too bad. That's for the, um. That's for the exclusive vortex edition, which comes in the.

In the snazzy packaging that you can apparently take the figures out, have a bit of a play and then repackage them for display. And the alternate, the alternate dress and accessories and whatnot, and that's going to go live as I said Thursday the 17 October.

And then probably a month later or at least a fortnight later, you'll be able to buy the same figures from retailers, but they'll have different clothes and not as many accessories and so on. So, Terry, I've never asked you this before, but do you collect these doctor who figures? Have you picked any of these up before?

Harry: 00:26:58

Every now and again. I mean, I used to like collect loads of them back in the day, like as toys.

Like I was young enough, like when they were making them for the new series, I would, I would like actually like play with them kind of thing. And nowadays I just tend to put them up on the shelf or do I still play with them? I'll never tell you.

And, yeah, I tend to just buy them every now and again when I go to conventions because they're normally being sold really cheaply, really niche ones that I never had before. Like I bought Professor Yana this year, for example, like that kind of thing.

Garry: 00:27:41

Oh, cool.

Harry: 00:27:41

But yeah, I still haven't got Jodie's figure yet. And I feel like now I really want to get like these two figures because they look really cool and then probably go back and get Jody.

So I have a complete, like, new series, doctors set kind of thing. But yeah, I think these are wicked. I particularly love the fact that shooty comes with a psychic paper.

I don't think we've ever had that before, so that's really cool. Yeah, I think I'll be buying these, mate. They're really good.

Garry: 00:28:18

Cool. Are you gonna buy the exclusive one or the retail?

Harry: 00:28:21

Yeah, you know what, I might treat myself. Why not? Yeah, get the exclusive one, you know, and then it'll be like a treat yourself collector's item. Yeah, that's cool.

Garry: 00:28:30

Oh, cool. So I think these, they do look really good, as usual with these, these figures from character. They almost get the head sculpt, right?

Almost with character. So I would say from the neck down, absolutely bang on. Like the outfits, you know, absolutely spot on.

And I love the accessories you get with this as well. So there's a few, there's a few pictures that come with the Doctor and Ruby.

And one of them, he's standing on the disc shaped landmine from boom and stuff and he's got a sonic, you know, it all looks very cool. So I think that's cool. Be interesting to see what the, what the outfits look like for the upcoming retail versions as well.

So I would imagine if you're a fan of shooty and shooter's era, then you'll pick these up where it says they're coming to mass retail. I'm wondering if that's going to be a b and m thing for the other ones, perhaps, because I'm not sure of any other retailers that.

I mean, what toy stores we have in the UK still, I think, like.

Harry: 00:29:38

Tesco still has like a figure section something. Yeah, I mean, the local.

Garry: 00:29:44

Yes.

Harry: 00:29:45

Tends to have like Marvel figures and things like that.

Garry: 00:29:49

So the other, the actual toy store, though, is it Smith's toy stores? I think the other one now that Smith, isn't it? Yeah.

So they might have it, but I'm guessing, as I'm taking an educated guess, it could be a b and mh situation for the other ones, but safe.

Harry: 00:30:05

Yeah.

Garry: 00:30:05

Yeah.

And then these ones, because they often do this, they'll do like sort of half a dozen figure releases a year and, you know, a couple of them will be online exclusives and the rest will be b and m. So, yeah, we'll keep you updated who fans on, on the retail ones, but certainly these will be out before the next episode drops.

Harry: 00:30:28

So, um, will you be getting them, Garry?

Garry: 00:30:30

Uh, I just don't, I don't really do Doctor who figures anymore, dude. Ah, fair, you know? Yeah. I mean, the only thing that I was, I really wanted to pick up. I say that as a huge contradiction to what I've just said.

I was really after the recent Dalek twin pack that was going out of B and M. Oh, yeah. Over the last week. But my local b and M store is just useless. Like every time I go in there, even though.

Because there's the Doctor who merchandise website is so good. You know, the website, I mean, it's the Doctor who sites. So merchandise dot. The Doctor who site dot co dot uk. They often do these really cool.

For the b and M releases. They do this map where they map out all of the b and M stores.

Then they will mark out all the stores that have got stock, supposedly and, and all that stuff. And then they also give you, they also give you the barcode and the barcode number for the set.

So if you want to ring the store and say, look, I'm after this, this toy set, if you got any in stock, here's the barcode number. Then in theory you should be able to, um, to pick up the set or at least check.

But for some reason, in my local store, whenever I go in there, even though I've got the barcode number and stuff, I just get met with this look of just utter confusion and just bewilderment so I'll be like, excuse me. Yeah, I just want to check to see if you guys have something in stock. It's a doctor who set. It's the. It's a twin pack.

It's called history of the Daleks. It's number 18. And here is the barcode and the barcode number and an image of what it looks like.

And then whoever it is, Julie, Sandra, whoever, she will look at me and she'll be like, oh, I don't know. Oh, I don't know. Okay, so no worries. Is there anyone around who you think. Right.

No, I just want to know if you've got them in stock or if you plan on getting them, that's all. Oh. Oh. Who would I ask about that? Who would I ask about that? Let me have a. I don't know, maybe Dave in the corner. Dave.

Dave, can you just come and help this gentleman? Yeah, sure. So Dave comes over. Hello, Dave. Sandra's, you know, sanj, she's a bit lost. She thinks you might know I'm after this.

So I repeat to Dave what I've just said. And Dave looks at me with that same look and he's like, I don't know. Oh, I don't know.

And so I'm in there for about 9 hours and I've gone, like, on a merry go round, and I've repeated the same story to about 17 different staff members just to come to the conclusion that nobody knows a, what I'm talking about in the first place, let alone get to bhidden, which is, do you actually have them or are you expecting them? So that's the adventure, mate, that I go on in my local b and m store. It's, uh. It's quite remarkable.

Harry: 00:33:46

Yeah.

Garry: 00:33:47

Um. You think.

Harry: 00:33:48

You think they know, like, like what was coming in and like, you know, it's an exclusive set and everything. That's. That's bizarre.

Garry: 00:33:57

Yeah, it's just weird, isn't it?

So while I'm having this conversation and I'm just trying to get some information about why supposedly widely available toy in this national chain of stores.

Harry: 00:34:09

Is it widely available? I don't know.

Garry: 00:34:12

Some dude will come in, some, some dude will come in behind me and sort of interrupt, but. Oh, sorry to interrupt. I'm just after this, you know, extremely rare Ming chinese vase from, from the Ming dynasty.

And somebody like, all the staff will be like, yeah, we've got one nose, mate. Yeah, just follow me and I'll get one of those for you right away.

You know, obviously that's an over exaggeration, but, you know, somebody will come in and ask for something just as obscure and all of the staff members will just snap out of it and be like, oh, yeah, we got them. Follow me, sir. Let's go sort you out while I'm standing there like, hello, where. Where my daleks at? Where's my Dalek two pack?

Harry: 00:34:52

Hello, I want my daleks.

Garry: 00:34:53

So, yeah, so, listener, hopefully you have better luck than I do. Hopefully you've got a b and M store near you that some, that's non, that's not run by witches and. And relies on magic, seemingly.

What were we talking about? Right, the figures. So you asked me if I was picking these up. Yeah, I don't really collect the figures.

I was hoping to get that two pack Dalek set from B and M. That's a whole nother podcast on its own. I think. I think we should create a podcast called the adventures of trying to buy things in B and M.

But you know a better name than that.

Harry: 00:35:32

Obviously something in that.

Garry: 00:35:34

Yeah. So there's your. There's your upcoming figures. Listener, shooty and merely 50 Doctor and Ruby. If you're into those, pick them up.

They look rather good. Right. Rolling on to the next story. Tom Baker has reunited with iconic companion in an unseen pick for a new Doctor who story.

This is from radio times, and they've been given what looks like a press release from big finish to plug the upcoming two adventures that are going to land next year. So Tom Baker and Louise Jameson are, have reunited for two stories.

The first one called the Helwood inheritance, and then the second story is called the Memory Thieves. And they will be released as a single box set via a collector's edition cd and download next year. Anyone that listens and orders stuff.

And big finish, you know the deal, you get the cd and then you get the free download if you buy the cd or you buy the download, but you don't get the physical, blah, blah, blah.

So this story, or these stories were written by Alan Barnes and the Hellwood inheritance will see the doctor and Leela chased through the countryside by a headless night before they realize they're in Hellwood Manor. With such a name, it's hardly surprising they find out it's the first safari park for ghosts. Which sounds pretty, pretty cool, I must.

Harry: 00:37:03

Admit, straight out of that one.

Garry: 00:37:06

Yeah. And then the memory thieves, written by Phil Mul Ryan, will see the pair reunite.

But this time, the TARDIS lands in a community that may or nothing be terrorized by monsters, which I think is the most generic strap line forum for a Doctor who story. Now, the picture that they've released, I think, dude, please correct me if I'm wrong. Yeah, I think that's a fairly old picture, mate, because.

Yeah, because I've seen a recent picture of Tom that went out, I think, month before last and he was looking really frail, really thin, looking a bit go. Yeah, yeah, I think this picture, although this picture might be newly released from big finish of these two.

I think this picture was taken, I don't know, five years ago ish, four or five years ago.

Harry: 00:38:00

this looks like Tom in, like,: 2018

An old picture because, yeah, like you say, I saw a photo of him that he did at a signing a few months back and bless him, he was looking quite, quite thin. And so, yeah, I think this is probably an older photo, I reckon. I got to say, the stories sound really good. I don't listen to big finish generally.

It's kind of something which I'm going to get into once I've watched all of the tv show and read all the books that I have on my shelf and then probably dip into these, like, many, many years later. But, yeah, these sound cool. But, yeah, old photo, I reckon.

Garry: 00:38:56

Yeah, yeah. Same Zeus. So the press release was. Was accompanied by some blurb.

So this is from the producer David Richardson says, as I write this, I'm blissfully enjoying the Blu ray release of Doctor who, the collection season 15, and happily reflecting on how lucky we are to be working with Tom Baker and Louise Jameson again at big finish on brand new stories in time and space. The fourth Doctor and Leela are a perfect pairing. The bohemian Time Lord, the fearless warrior.

And it was a blast to take them to new places in this new box set of the fourth Doctor adventures. They're not the only ones in the Tardis either. EastEnder star Tamsin outhwaite joins as Joan Stone, a parapsychologist assistant.

Elsewhere in the box set, Rosalie Craig from the Serpent Queen and Richard James from Space precinct also feature. So this will be released in March of next year. It's up for pre order now on the big Finish website.

And like you, dude, I think these stories sound pretty cool. I mean, we haven't much got much to go on on the second one. It just know.

We just know that there's going to be a community that's being terrorized by monsters. That could be any Doctor who story, really. But the first one sounds really cool. This safari park for ghosts. That sounds very cool.

Hellwood Manor and all that lot.

Harry: 00:40:16

So I mean, are they like ghost lyings or something like that? Ghost tigers?

Garry: 00:40:22

I don't think it's animals. I think it's just a. From what it sounds like anyway, a collection of. Because this says it's. They've been chased by a headless knight.

So I think it's going to be like a collection of kind of classic ghosts that have been somehow corralled into some kind of safari.

Harry: 00:40:41

Make a bit more sense.

Garry: 00:40:44

Yeah, yeah. But anyway, it's nice to see big finish and old Tom and, and Leela. Sorry, Louise Jameson being featured in the wider media, which is very cool.

So yeah, I know a bunch of people on our discord server will have already pre ordered this and we will have our own review of this when our dudes get around to it next year. So we'll, we'll review this one. But yeah, anytime we get more Tom Baker and fourth Doctor is very cool.

Harry: 00:41:15

Absolutely.

Garry: 00:41:16

There we go. Last story. This comes via bleedingcool.com. this article went out yesterday and they are digging through an interview that Russell T.

Davis did with SFX magazine post season one going out. So there was a lot of questions that surfaced after that, mainly around how the.

So there was a lot of questions before the season went out, around how they were going to structure the seasons.

Now that doctor who is not only back on sort of terrestrial tv and I play here in the UK, but as we all know, sort of making its introduction into the world of streaming internationally and all that stuff, how that was going to work. And then we also knew that fairly early on that they had already sort of blasted through and finished up most of the second season.

So in light of that, there are more questions around. Well, that's all well and good, but what's happening after that? What's the future of Doctor who?

Because season three has not yet been commissioned officially that we know of. None of that's happening.

And then there was all these rumours that were firing around that shooty had been fired from the role, Millie had been fired, even though, you know, we, we debunked the Millie thing quite early on here because we said, look, she was only ever written to be in one season as a full time companion. She wasn't fired or anything like that. But then people latched on to this whole thing around, you know, shoot, he's been fired and blah, blah, blah.

So anyway, Russell was interviewed and he set the story straight on a few things and they break this down into three areas.

The first one was, as I said, the first lot of questions before this went out was how many episodes were going to be in each season and how long and all that stuff. So I'm not going to read the whole thing, but just pull out a few things that Russell said.

He said, I'd like to do 52 episodes of Doctor who a year, so that would make me happy, but never going to happen. He said the new season was going to be eight episodes plus one Christmas special.

No matter which international streaming platform ended up co producing Doctor who, that's just a reality of what television seasons are like in this new streaming era. He said the eight episodes were what the budget they asked for that could cover the quality and the types of stories they wanted to produce.

Eight episode seasons were established by Netflix as the standard length for a season of hour long episodes due to the amount of money to be maximized and the belief that 8 hours is bingeable in one sitting and just long enough to engage viewers before they lose interest.

This means the days of 13 episodes of Doctor who are at the moment over and a Christmas special, because there was no way Davies was ever not going to do Doctor who for a Christmas special. So I think.

I think what I'm getting from this bit, dude, is that although eight episodes in one season, and those episodes hover around 45 minutes to an hour or 55 minutes, whatever, I feel like that's just the precedent that's been set by the streaming platforms. Whether I agree or not that 8 hours is a bingeable amount and all that stuff. I mean, yeah, I mean, I guess. But, um. I don't know. But what I'm.

The main thing I'm getting from this, though, is that Russell really wanted to do more because although he makes a bit of a joke about it and over exaggerates and says he'd like to do 50, 52 episodes a year, that'd make him happy, he says never going to happen. I think he'd want to do more than eight a year. That's what I'm getting from.

Harry: 00:45:16

I mean, I think that makes total sense, given that. I mean, obviously, yeah, he's thinking about it from sort of a business perspective, if you like.

It works in kind of like the current tv climate, but also, I feel like Russell's still writing it like it's a 13 episode season because we still have kind of monster of the week episodes. And if you get a show like stranger things. For example, that show is sort of serialized.

It's kind of like one big story, so it doesn't feel like you're really losing anything weight when you have, like, eight or nine episodes, whereas with Doctor who, if you spend one of the episodes, like, doing a filler episode, I mean, that works when you have 13 episodes, but when you have eight, it works slightly less. Well, I think.

Garry: 00:46:11

Yeah, true.

Harry: 00:46:12

So it's a. Yeah, you kind of just got to pick, like, one or the other, I think.

Like, if you're accepting that, you know, the days of 13 episode seasons of Doctor who are over, then I think the show should sort of be written to reflect that. I'm not sure what that looks like necessarily, but, yeah. Do you know what I mean?

I feel like the current season was sort of still written, like, with those kind of filler episodes in mind, kind of thing. Like, Rogue felt like it could have been written in RTD one.

And whereas nowadays, I feel like this season lost something when it didn't maximize every single episode on character development and central relationships and conflicts and stuff, because there was no conflict between these two. As much as we love shooty and Millie, like, in their roles, like.

Like, the relationship wasn't really that interesting because there wasn't as much time to sort of flesh it out.

And whereas, if you compare it to, say, like, Christopher Eccleston and Billy Piper, there was a lot of conflict in that relationship in that first series, citing Father's Day as an example. So, yeah, I don't know this. Yeah, that's my two pennies on it.

Garry: 00:47:38

No, that makes total sense, dude. Yeah, total sense. And, yeah, I think it's to be expected more than anything.

If you're going to go in, if you're going to go in in cahoots with a streaming service, then you have to compromise a little bit. You can't just say, you know, we want all of your money, but then we're gonna do it, you know, all our own way. There has to be some kind of.

Some compromise there. And that's. That's exactly what this is. This is the whole, you know, the shorter episode numbering per season and stuff like that.

So that aligns more with all the other popular series that you see on. On Netflix and Disney and whatnot. So it's kind of to be expected.

I remember when they were first started making noises about this stuff a few months out from season one landing. We spoke about it on the roundtable, and Adam and I spoke about it. There were two things that.

That people started losing their minds over the first one was the shorter episode run, and then the second thing was the episodes airing at midnight. Do you remember that whole, you know, people just, this isn't fair. This isn't right. This doesn't feel like, like Doctor who and all the rest of it.

But I think once we get into, like, season five and six of this show from the streaming era, it'll just be normal. You know, all this stuff will just. It will just slot into all the other streaming epis series that we watch and. And all that stuff, you know, it.

ho will never return to doing: 1213

Harry: 00:49:23

I've got to say, it's slightly disconcerting to read that, you know, that they're thinking about how they can engage viewers before they lose interest.

But I feel like that's probably a wider conversation about attention spans in general and the kind of social media, quick dopamine kind of age that we're living in that know, we have to consider, well, people who are making television have to consider things like, is it second screen enough? Like, can. Can people binge this in one day rather than thinking about, you know, sustaining it over, like, so many weeks? Because our.

Yeah, our sensibilities have changed to this sort of thing. So in a way, that's kind of sad, but it's nice that we still get a Christmas special, though, right? So, you know, that's cool.

Garry: 00:50:10

Yeah, that's cool. And I think that was perhaps, I was just saying about if you're gonna go in.

In the same camp as somebody like a Disney plus or Netflix, whatever, there has to be a bit of compromise. You have to do things a slightly different way than what you're used to. And I think that goes both ways.

So probably Disney, like, look, we need to structure the season in this particular way because it's going to be on a streaming platform. And Russell was probably like, okay, fine, but I get my Christmas special. Like, you know, that's not. That's not up for conversation. So.

Yeah, you're right. We do get the old Crimbo special. So, um. So that's cool.

Uh, they then go on to, um, to say that not to worry about the lack of news about a third season yet. So, as I mentioned, season two, I think, I think, is pretty much done and ready to go.

That was filmed so long ago, now it feels like they've probably done the majority of visual effects work and editing and stuff. I would imagine that season two is just sitting on the shelf ready to be. Ready to be done.

I could be wrong, but I just feel like that was filmed so long ago or it feels like. Anyway. So they state here, obviously, that officially the BBC hasn't renewed the series for a third time yet.

Harry: 00:51:29

But.

Garry: 00:51:30

But Davis has said he is optimistic there would be and is already writing the script. So we knew that anyway, we covered that a few weeks ago, that he's already writing season three.

He said if the BBC had no streaming partners, they would scale down the budget and still make Doctor who. He says anyone that thinks Doctor who might be cancelled are forgetting one thing about how the business works.

There's the fact that the series consistently makes the BBC at least 100 million pounds in sales and licensing every year.

Harry: 00:52:03

Wow.

Garry: 00:52:04

So they'd be crazy to cancel it. It's good business to keep making Doctor who, basically.

The BBC has announced that the latest series has been their most popular show amongst younger viewers. The 18 to 35 demographic, that's the demographic that all the major streaming services are currently going after.

So if Disney walks away, then Netflix and Amazon would be more than happy to pick up the co funding and global streaming rights. So there's a couple of bits in there, dude, that we knew already. We knew that Russell was working on the third season, already writing the script.

We knew that the Beeb had not officially announced or commissioned a third season. But then when you think about it, like you were saying, know, there has to be.

There has to be some decisions made about Doctor who, where it has to be treated like a business.

Although you and I and all the other people that love to watch doctor who from a consumer point of view, and they have to obviously make a tv show and be creative and cater to all that. It is still a money machine. It's still a business. It still has to do that.

So if Disney just decided one day, I've had a word with goofy, Donald's in on it, minnie's in on it as well. We've all decided just doctor who's not for us anymore. So, you know, catch you later, I would assume, like.

Because the other thing about the way this business works, right, is that the top bods at Disney plus the top bods at Netflix, Amazon, they all talk to each other, you know, they all. They all talk to each other. Even though they're competitors and rivals. They. They all talk to each other.

I would assume that if that was to happen, Disney made the call to the b boy, to Russell Monday morning and said, look, we don't want to do this anymore. Season two is going to be cool, but after that, we're done.

I would imagine by the afternoon, the same day, Russell would get a phone call from somebody at Netflix or Amazon and say, we'll pick it up. You know, we'll take it on from season three onwards. Here's a bunch of cash. Let's go for it.

Because, you know, like it was saying in cycle, it's, uh, it makes all parties concerned quite a bit of money. So, dude.

Harry: 00:54:22

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Garry: 00:54:23

Do you think that, uh, we're on the, uh, that the, the announcement for a season three is coming over the hill or do you think they're going to long this out a little bit?

Harry: 00:54:33

I have no idea. I mean, I.

I feel like if they were going to announce it, I feel like they're waiting until season two because I think if they were waiting on the reception for season one or they had a response to season one that they weren't expecting, probably not as good as they were expecting. They probably would have announced a third series already. But, yeah, I reckon they'll probably announce it after season two. I reckon.

Whether or not Disney will keep it, I don't know. I mean, clearly it's making a lot of money and we know that the mouse loves money, so I don't know why they would give it up, but, yeah.

What do you think?

Garry: 00:55:18

Well, it's. I don't know.

It's always an interesting thing with anything to do with tv because you often get the feeling that the reception from fans doesn't align with what the execs think who are sort of at the top of the tree.

But what I mean by that is there might be a show that when it's spoken about in fandom, it's like really good and, you know, people really like it and stuff. And then a week later, you get the announcement that the show's been cancelled and everyone's bewildered. It's like, hold on a minute.

That was actually really good. Why have they pulled the plug on something that people really like? So, yeah, it's a bit of an odd.

It's always been an odd thing, the way that television works and how things are recommissioned and stuff.

Which brings us on to the next part of this interview, actually, which is they go on to say that none of the actors have been fired because currently there's no show to be fired from. So the BBC, uh, this is. I'm going back to the article now. It says the BBC is not Hollywood and operates differently.

Uh, they have only ever, they have only ever always renewed a series of Doctor who and every other series by the year. Uh, this means neither shootie nor Millie Gibson are fired.

Unlike Hollywood, where tv networks sign actors up to seven year contract commitment in case the series becomes a big hit and the actors demand higher salaries when their contract is up for renewal, etcetera, actors on a BBC series only get their contracts renewed by the year.

So that's what, going back to what I was saying earlier about streaming services pulling the plug on things over in the US, they will often tie people in to multiple year contracts.

Because, like it says in this article, if there's like, you know, hit out of nowhere somewhere, because this happens with, this happened with things like the Big Bang Theory. Oh, yeah. So when those guys were first making that show, I think that's years ago now, like twelve years ago or some.

Something crazy like that, they had no idea how successful that would be. I think that went on to be like the longest running single camera sitcom or something like that.

And the amount of money that the actors made in that show by the final season is just ridiculous. Like Jim Parsons, the guy who played Sheldon Cooper, the amount of money he got per episode in those final two scenes, I think it was.

We're talking crazy money, dude. We're talking like millions of dollars per episode.

And there's 22 episodes in a season, plus a cut of the future streaming rights and everything like that.

So what they do is they lock actors in to like multiple years, so that if the program blows up and becomes successful, the actor can't go and say, I want an extra $10 million, because they're like, well, you can't because you're under contract for five. I'm not going to give you ten, that kind of thing. So this is like the opposite to how british television works, mainly with the BBC.

You don't get these big multi million multi year contracts. They'll just do it on an annually recurring basis.

So in light of that, this article goes on to say that that has been the case with every doctor and companion every year since the series has been on the air, whether it's David Tennant, Matt Smith, Capaldi, whatever. That's why Davies is still optimistic that Schuetti will return for third season.

And shooty cannot say whether he's in the third season yet, because there is no official renewal and shorter seasons mean actors can go and take on other jobs. Like Millie Gibson has been in a new ITV adaptation of the foresight saga shoot.

He can spend the rest of his 24 on stage in the West End doing all that stuff. So what they're saying is by not locking those actors into commitments for that, they're not contractually obliged to stay at the BBC.

They can go off and do, like, a rival tv station job, a theater job, a movie, whatever. So this is interesting, dude. I think what the.

The crux of what this bit is saying is everyone's chinese, you know, chinese whispers all over the place that, um, shoot has been fired. Millie was fired when they finished up season one of Doctor who or finished filming season two, whatever.

But the reality is, is that once the camera shuts off, you know, that last scene at the end of season two, that's their contract effectively done. So how can they be fired from something that they're not actually currently employed in?

Harry: 01:00:27

They got to work, right? You know, they got. They got. They got to keep. Keep, you know, making money.

Garry: 01:00:33

That.

Harry: 01:00:34

That's.

Garry: 01:00:34

Keep the lights on.

Harry: 01:00:35

Exactly. So it's. It's one of them. And, you know, the press love drama.

So all of this, you know, like, really, well, fiery language of saying, like, they're fired and.

Or Milly Gibson walked or whatever, it's, you know, it's all got to be taken with a pinch of salt because, you know, as far as we know, none of these actors who have been in doctor who for the last several years, you know, they've all walked away of their own. Their own choice. Right. When it was the right time. So, yeah, I think it's. Yeah, it's all just. It's all just noise at the end of the day and.

Yeah, I think. I mean, it sounds like to me that, you know, if we. Because obviously shooting Millie, they're. They're doing some other things we're not sure about.

Ferrado Sethu, who's joining us next year.

But it sounds to me like if they do do season three, well, I mean, they're definitely going to do season three because as we've established, they can't cancel doctor who because it's a money spinner.

not going to get it in spring: 2026

Like, push it back into early: 2026

I don't think we're gonna have probably a longer wait for that season, I reckon. Unfortunately.

Garry: 01:02:21

Yeah, I'd agree with that, dude. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. That can sort of conclude some sort of the juicy bits, if you like, from that interview of SFX magazine.

And you know, we've pulled out, you know, some of the bits that we know we knew with a case anyway. But it's always good to hear, to hear this stuff from the horse's mouth. Right?

So there will always be not just Doctor who, but in any fandom, there'll always be this echo chamber of stuff that's circulating around and you just cannot, you cannot take it as, as red because either Russell hasn't confirmed it or the BBC or Disney whatever. So you're not going round around in circles of all this stuff.

So it's nice to actually have a little bit of clarity from, from the man himself on some of this stuff. So for sure, that's all good. So that's over on uh, each of these stories, by the way.

There'll be links in the show notes if you want to go and check them out yourself and give them a read. So uh, head over to uh, to bleeding cool.com to check this one out and uh, let us know what you think over on the socials.

Hit us up on the Twitter at big blue box pcast. Let us know what you think to these stories.

And that is going to conclude all of the uh, all of the stuff that's been kicking around in the Doctor who world since, since we all last spoke. So not a huge amount going on. I think we're still in that sort of in between limbo period between seasons where we've.

It's too early to start teasing future episodes of from next year or even the Christmas special. I think we're still a month away at least before we get any sort of little teasers or anything like that.

So we're in that, you know, little limbo area. But that's the news listener from the world of Doctor who. We're going to finish up on a.

We uh, on a wee uh, dive into Harry's memory and his uh, and his thoughts on Doctor who just because um, over the next few weeks, as I said at the beginning of the show, um, in Adam's absence, uh, these guys can be hopping on as co host duties. And uh, so it's really cool to get their view on these stories and everything like that, but I want you to get to know these guys a little bit more.

So let's, uh, dive into their, into their doctor who brain.

So, dude, the obvious question, I guess a lot of people get asked anyway, but what was your, what was your introduction, your earliest memory of doctor who?

Harry: 01:04:54

Earliest memory of doctor who. So it's interesting because my earliest memories of life were Doctor who.

the show when it came back in: 2000

But it, yeah, I don't remember anything else about that time other than I didn't even like have a concept of days of the week at that point. I just knew like every, like every sort of six or seven days a new episode of Doctor who would be on. And yeah, I remember flashes.

I remember the Slovene running down corridors, I remember the Daleks and being absolutely enamored with their design and Nicholas Briggs fantastic performance as the voice. And I remember Christopher Eccleston and Billy Piper running around.

But in particular the one that, the moment that really, really stands out for me and I think it was the moment where I fell in love with Doctor who as a character was everybody lives at the end of the Doctor dancers.

I just thought it was such a joyous, joyous moment and it really encapsulated just how hopeful I find this show and how I've always found it, how it's always kind of brought me a sense of comfort.

So, yeah, it was that moment, just know, like seeing the Doctor kind of pat everyone on the back after he sorted out like their gas mask trauma and just, you know. Yeah, there was just a sense that everything's going to be all right, you know. So, yeah, it was that dude.

Garry: 01:06:49

lestone, when it came back in: 2005

Harry: 01:07:02

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So this is on the cusp of.

So I feel like I was born into sort of the last generation of kids that like watch VHS's and tape things on the tv and, yeah, at the time we only had, we only had the five channels. So it was at the weekend, I. No, kids tv.

It was the only thing that was on really for kids and like reruns of like Danger Mouse and Thunderbirds on Sunday morning. So, yeah, it was just, it was the only thing that was on. But I was just. I was just enamored with it, like, straight away. I just.

It was almost like falling in love at first sight. As cringy as that sounds. It was. I was immediately like. I loved the aesthetic and the, like, the fun and the variety and just.

Just everything about it, really. And it carried on into David Tennant. It was like year on year. Whenever Doctor who came on, I just watched it every single week.

It was funny because I remember watching the Christmas invasion, and that was the first time I was introduced to the concept of regeneration. And I just. I didn't even really question it. It was. It's probably just because I was so young, but I just kind of.

I noticed the fact that the Doctor had a different face and I was just like, okay, I guess he just looks different now. So that was. That was really.

And, yeah, and then I fell in love with, you know, David Tennant's portrayal of the Doctor, and I sort of, like, idolized him at that age. And, yeah, I was really sad when Rose left, but then Martha came along and she was really cool. And, of course, Donna was really funny and.

And, you know, we all love her and we. I would watch totally Doctor who, which was like the kids sort of spin off, like, magazine show. I'd watch that every week.

Sarah Jane Adventures was too young for Torchwood, didn't get around to that till later. And I even collected Doctor who adventures every week. Not Doctor who magazine.

Doctor who adventures, the kiddie magazine that came with, like, a free gift every week. And the amount of terrible, like, pencil cases and, like, pens with David Tennant's face on that I have, like, in my. In my loft in my old house.

Yeah, it's an ungodly amount, but, yeah, I was pretty obsessed. I was pretty obsessed. And a lot of people, a lot of people I went to school with just knew me as the kid that just wouldn't shut up about doctor who.

I must have been really irritating, but, yeah, no, I just. I loved it. It really defined my childhood, really. And it. Well, it still defines me now. It's, you know, it's still a really big passion of mine. Yeah.

And I don't see that changing. Really.

Garry: 01:10:07

Yeah, neither should it. Dude, that's really cool. So, um, when did you get. When did you get into classic who, then?

Harry: 01:10:13

was around? It was. It was in: 2009

I'll just, like, have some birthday money. So I bought the k nine tails box set because I really like k nine. I wasn't sure which one to pick. Pick, so I just picked off that.

And the invisible enemy was the very first story that I watched. And Tom Baker has since remained my favorite classic Doctor who.

Probably my favorite Doctor ever, if I had to, if I was forced to pick one kind of at gunpoint, because he's just timeless. He's just timeless.

Like, I feel like, you know, like John Pertwee and like, William Hartnell, as much as I love, like, their particular trails of Doctor who, they're very of their time. Whereas Tom Baker just feels like he was plucked outside of time and he was told, go on, you give us your interpretation of Doctor who.

And, yeah, he's just so otherworldly and perfect in that role. And, of course, yeah, I was introduced to Leela and a character I'd never heard of before that point.

I'd obviously heard of Sarah Jane, but I was like, who's this Leah Leela character? She's so interesting. And the serialized format and, like, the kind of rubbish sets. It was. It was, yeah, it was just really cool.

Over time, I sort of feel like I was watching classic doctor who and I wasn't really appreciating it enough. I feel like now that I'm older, I can appreciate it more because I appreciate it's, like, of a slower pace and it's a different format.

And as we were talking about earlier, it was made for people with, like, different sensibilities, you know, at the time and attention spans and what have you. So, like, now I feel like I nod off less.

Whereas before I tried a lot of classic doctor who stories, and I wasn't really into them because I thought, well, this is just long and boring. It's not as good as our shiny sort of newer Doctor who, but, yeah, I.

But I did start watching it from a youngish age, but I was always, like, growing up, I was always, like, more a fan of, like, the new series because that was, you know, what I started Doctor who on.

Garry: 01:12:43

Gotcha. That's fascinating, dude. So your first story was the invisible. Invisible enemy. Wow. Yeah.

And so I can see why you would have, you know, fallen in love with Tom's era and Tom's. There's a reason, right? Yeah. That he appears in everyone's top three or top five of all. All time.

There's a very good reason for that because he's such a great. You know, we could spend, like, we could do a ten hour podcast episode on Tom Baker yeah. And that stuff. So, I mean, that's fascinating, dude.

So, yeah. Wow. So, okay, so that's your. That's how you got into Doctor who? Both, yeah. The, the newer era and the classic stuff.

who heading? Because we're in: 2024

Harry: 01:13:42

Yeah.

Garry: 01:13:43

100% confirmed. So they're coming. Where do you see Doctor who going in, say, in the next, I don't know, five years or so?

Do you reckon we're just going to keep getting season after season or are there going to be a cog that goes, the wheel is going to come off?

Harry: 01:14:00

I think it's. I think, where do I think it will go and where do I want it to go are two different questions. So.

Well, there are two different answers to your question, so I feel where it will go.

I think they will keep churning it out because, like we say, money spinner, so, you know, that they'll keep on making doctor who because we keep on watching it and buying the merchandise and.

And we love doing that and I'll watch it, whatever, because, you know, even if it, even if it's nothing, quote unquote good, like, if we think it's bad or whatever, like, I still think it's more entertaining and more engaging than, like, other things on tv nowadays.

So, you know, I have really great memories of, like, watching the Jodie Whittaker era, even though I wasn't a huge fan of it with, like, some university buddies at the time. And it's, yeah, I'll keep watching it and I'll probably still enjoy it where I prefer it to go. I mean, I do feel.

I do feel like we get into a bit of a cycle. We see sort of the same things crop up in every doctor's era.

So we always have, you know, the post regenerative trauma, we always have the heartbreaking companion exits and we always have, you know, the companions sort of questioning, just who are you, Doctor? Just who are you? And all these, like, similar beats that keep on cropping up.

I mean, say what you will about the latest series, but I do like the fact that it had some really left field ideas, like 73 yards and, you know, the Doctor not being able to move and being stuck on a landmine for a whole episode, like, fresh ideas like that are things that make me go, ah, this still has a place on the telly.

But I do feel like Doctor who needs a bit of a rest because I think it's slowly running out of ideas and I think if we just rest it for a bit and then generate that hunger a bit more, it doesn't even have to be as long as it was initially when it ended with survival. Just rest it for like five years, build that anticipation again.

Keep the magazine going, keep big finish going, keep releasing books because, you know, goodness knows I want more time to catch up on my books and then when it comes back, people will be really hyped for it and then you can, like, there have been time for, you know, the people who have access to the opportunities to, like, write the show and stuff, to have thought about new ways of doing it because I do, I feel like Doctor who's getting a little bit, like, repetitive, if that makes sense. I might be in the minority thinking that, but I feel like we sort of see similar beats crop up.

And again, I wrote an article a few years ago about the festive special and I said, you know, it's weird when you're doing like, a marathon of Doctor who and then every, like twelve episodes or so, you get, like, a festive episode and, like, that, you can only do so many festive specials before they all kind of feel the same. It's. Yeah, that's sort of my thought on it.

I feel like I want it to have a rest so that it comes back bigger and better than ever and they can sort of reinvent the wheel even more because there's only so much that changing the showrunner or changing the Doctor can do, I think. But really what I think will happen in is that, you know, we'll keep getting a series every one or two years.

We'll keep getting, you know, fabulous actors playing the doctor. We'll keep getting, like the odd gem of an episode sort of here and there.

And if that's the way it carries on, I mean, my favorite show is still on the tv. My favorite show is still on Disneyland plus, so who am I to complain, you know?

Garry: 01:18:18

Okay, yeah, that's really fascinating, dude, because, um, you kind of, you're echoing the thoughts that, um, that I remember saying to Adam years ago now. This was when, um. Well, roughly when was it? It was either before Chris Chibnall's era or in between Chibnall and Russell coming back.

I remember saying, I remember quite vividly saying that doctor who just needs a rest. It needs a, it needs a, it needs the BBC to clean house a little bit. The people that run Doctor who and manage it all and, and all that stuff.

It just needs a completely freshen set of eyes on everything, you know, a different brain to. To come up with a different. Not. Not to change the formula so much, you know, because the formula is what makes, you know, the whole idea of.

Of regeneration and companions and. Yeah, and all that stuff, you know, that's what makes the show.

So I don't mean changing it as in, like, changing how the show works and feels, but just giving it a complete creative change up. And I think they, the best example that I can think of where they've done that is the first time Russell left and Stephen Moffat coming on.

That felt like a really good creative shift from, from Russell's first era, you know.

You know, when everything was just different and, you know, we had a new showrunner, new actor as the doctor, new theme, new producers, new everything. It felt like Doctor who, but it was just a clean, clean slate, you know, for a lot of things.

And I think when we got to the Chibnall era, I didn't quite have the same feeling as that I should have done because there was a lot more changes compared to the first RCD era into the Moffat era, you know, going from again, it was all different, you know, that hot. Not a reset narratively or anything like that, but just a reset in terms of everything. So that was the same deal, right?

New showrunner, new actor with Jody, new theme composer, all of that stuff. But for some reason, that didn't quite hit, that didn't land for me, which it should have done because it was even bigger change.

I don't know, there's just something about that shift from into the Moffat era that just seemed to work. It was almost like a double whammy.

It was like it was different enough that it was a fresh change for the show, but it was also just super familiar still. It still felt like we were watching the same show, if that makes sense. So I feel like we need to get back to that a little bit.

And it's just interesting that they've taken the approach of bringing everybody back, you know, getting a band back together with Russell and Julie Gardner and Phil Collinson and initially David Tennant coming back and Murray gold coming back.

It feels like they've got the band back together, but I don't know, we can go on and again, a whole nother episode about that, but again, I don't feel like we've got that decent enough. Decent enough. I don't feel like it's different enough and still familiar. I feel like they try to be too different. I can't explain it.

It's weird, isn't it? Doctor who's one of those things where you can't put your finger on it sometimes.

Harry: 01:21:52

Yeah. You know, I mean, don't get me wrong, it's like, I mean, it's a really insanely. I mean, I imagine it's an insanely tricky thing to get right.

Like, how do you find that balance of still being familiar but also still being fresh? Like, it's a. It's a bit of a contradiction, isn't it?

But it's, I mean, like, as we were saying earlier, like, the eight episode format, I mean, really embrace that. Like, you know, make Doctor who like, more of a, like, you know, serialized drama, like other shows on streaming platforms.

If you want to make it, like, engaging for that modern day sensibility like we're talking about, then, like, go back to its roots a little bit.

Like, you know, that's still familiar, but at the same time, it's also different because we're not, you know, I mean, you could do something like flux. Like flux, obviously. Like, I mean, it wasn't great, but, you know, the.

The principle, I really liked, you know, having a one long story, but also kind of, each episode kind of stood on its own. I really, really liked that format of. And just, I mean, I don't know exactly what it is. I want a typical Doctor who fan.

I don't know what I want, but, like, I don't know how I want the show to be different, but I feel like we just sort of see the same stuff occurring.

I mean, I'm glad the Daleks weren't back this year because, you know, the Daleks are back every year and as much as we love them, like, it's, you know, it starts to become a bit routine and, you know, this is a Sam sandbox, this show. You can. You can do all sorts of things of it. So, you know, I'd.

Yeah, I don't know exactly what it is I want, but I just know that I want the wheel to be reinvented even more. And I feel like the best way to do that would probably just be to rest it, and I feel like that would make me more excited for it as well.

You know, I'd like to miss doctor who for a bit, I think, because, yeah, almost take for granted that it's out every single year, but. Well, most years anyway, but, yeah, that's my sort of two pennies on it.

I mean, whatever they do, we'll watch it, we'll enjoy it and that's what's important.

Garry: 01:24:21

Mm hmm. Yeah, no, I certainly get that, dude.

And I think that just going back quickly to that transition from RTD's first era into Moffat, I think it was a really good decision to do that year of just specials for David Tennant, you know, his last, you know, series for the specials.

The whole reason why they did that is because they needed to afford Stephen Moffat and all the new people time to really get their stuff in place and ready.

It would have, there wasn't, there wouldn't be enough time if they just finished at the end of the end of time part two and then the following summer or whatever, go straight into season five, there just wasn't enough time to do all that. So I feel like they need to do that kind of thing again.

Whenever Russell decides to leave and they get a new showrunner in, just give it a year, at least. At least a year. Pepper it with like, you know, a couple of specials and just give the new people enough time.

I feel like that my preference would be the same as you, mate. Just rest it for a few years and just let the dust settle a little bit and just everybody regroup and, and see where they want to take it and stuff.

I can, I can see, I can see at some point in the future, I don't if it's the near future or not, but I can see them doing a complete reboot of doctor who at some point because, oh, I don't.

Harry: 01:25:44

Know how I feel about that.

Garry: 01:25:47

Well, feelings on it aside, I think there's only so many because we've already gone through, right? We've already gone through the Doctor having what we thought was one set of regenerations and that was it.

He was going to get twelve or 13 regens and then that was the end of the character. Then time after that he, he's, you know, dead. No more regions.

Harry: 01:26:10

Yeah.

Garry: 01:26:11

Then they went through the whole thing with the Time Lords giving him a new set of regenerations. So that gets reset back to number one and he's got twelve or 13 fresh regens to go through.

Then we get the whole timeless child thing and it just completely obliterates all of that anyway. So where do you go from that then? You know, where do you go from, from that?

enerate the Doctor, you know,: 5000

You know, he's not, he's not restricted to a set, finite number of regeneration.

So, but on the other hand, that also lets you just have the, the character and everything go in this repetitive loop, as you said, where you go round and round in circles doing the same thing.

So I can see at some point, like I said, not in the near future, but some point down the road, you know, they will, they will probably do a reboot of it.

They'll, they'll rest it for, I don't know, six, seven years, perhaps eight years, and then they'll come back and it will be the first doctor, you know, and it will be a slight twist on how things work and, and all that stuff. So I can just see that, you know, being a thing.

Yeah, yeah, of course, you know, fandom will destroy that and it will be the worst thing ever until people watch episode one and they'll be like, actually, it's not too bad, not too bad.

So anyway, but, mate, that's been so cool to dive into your, into your memories a little bit and get your, your entry into, into the world of doctor who and your thoughts on where we think it's going and stuff. It's fascinating, man. So thank you very much for your co host duties and whatnot.

And I think on that, should we call it a bombshell, our thoughts on this, perhaps on that bombshell, we'll end it there. Yeah. For episode 412.

Harry: 01:28:26

Alrighty.

Garry: 01:28:51

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to another episode of the Big Blue Box podcast.

That was episode 412 with myself, Garry, and my co host for this week, the wonderful Harry Walker, one of our mega talent writers from the writer team, we recapped on all the news. As I mentioned earlier, those links will be in the show notes. So if you want to dive into those, let us know.

If you pick up the new character options figures, just hit us up on the Twitter or on Discord, let us know what you think to those. And if you've got any thoughts as well on the future of Doctor who, then also let us know. Fire us a tweet or on Facebook or on discord.

Just let us know your thoughts on that stuff. And as I mentioned earlier, make sure you are subscribing or following to this podcast in whatever app you listen to your podcasts on.

So every time we release a new episode, it pops up in your feed and you can check that out, the weekly episodes that go out on a Friday, plus the monthly roundtable with this lot. You'll get that as well for free. You can listen on the website as well. Bigblue Box podcast UK.

You can check out all the articles and reviews from this lot, plus you can link off to the socials and the discord and everything and you can get involved over there.

And if you've got a minute, if you like the podcast and you listen on something like Apple Podcasts or on Spotify, if you want to leave us a rating or review, that would be awesome and very much appreciated and thank you so much to those of you that have already done that. Harry. Until next time, dudes on the roundtable, it's been great having you on. Cheers, dude.

Harry: 01:30:29

Thank you, Garry. This has been so much fun. It's such a lovely idea to like do a memory lane thing. I'm looking forward to hearing the others. Yeah, this has been cool.

Garry: 01:30:37

Thanks indeed. No worries, man. Until next time, my name's Garry.

Harry: 01:30:42

My name's Ari.

Garry: 01:30:45

And remember.

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