Is your marriage running on autopilot, or do you have a game plan for building a thriving relationship? In this episode of Faith Fueled Woman, Kristin Fitch talks with relationship coach and licensed counselor Tondra Gregory, co-author of The Marriage Game Plan, about how couples can create a shared vision for their marriage.

We explore practical, faith-based strategies for improving communication, resolving conflict, and prioritizing connection, even in the busiest seasons of life. From understanding how your past influences your relationship to making intentional time for date nights, this conversation will inspire you to stop coasting and start cultivating a stronger, more joy-filled marriage.

Whether you’re newlyweds or decades in, this episode will give you actionable tools to strengthen your bond, align your goals, and keep God at the center of your marriage.

✅ Key Takeaways

• Every marriage needs a game plan to navigate challenges with grace, communication, and teamwork.
• Understanding your spouse’s background fosters empathy and helps address recurring conflicts.
• Building intentional rhythms—like date nights and quality time—is essential for intimacy and connection.
• Conflict resolution styles differ; finding strategies that work for both partners is key.
• Placing God at the center of your marriage brings clarity, purpose, and long-term strength.
• The Marriage Game Plan provides couples with a practical framework to personalize their path to a thriving marriage.

Connect with Tondra at https://journeyforlifenow.org/

Listen to The Marriage Game Plan Podcast here.

Download My Free Joyful Living Devotional: https://kristinfitch.com/devotional

Ready to take your first step towards a more joyful, faith-filled life? Download our Reignite Your Passion Workbook and start living with purpose today!

What to feel more energized in midlife? Grab my 5 Day Energy Reset Jump Start Guide here.

Ready to work with Kristin to make a shift in your life? Click here to get started.

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Hi and welcome to Faithfield Woman.

This is your host, Kristen.

Today in the podcast we are talking about marriage and we are going to talk about the book the Marriage Game Plan and why we need a game plan for our marriages and how that can strengthen and build our marriages so we can navigate differences, we can navigate conflict resolution, we can learn how to communicate clearer and that we can just show up in our marriages to serve one another and to build a legacy together.

Hey friend, are you craving deeper faith, renewed purpose and more joy in your everyday life?

Welcome to Faith Filled Woman podcast that helps Christian women grow spiritually pursue God's calling and embrace the abundant life he has for you.

I'm Kristen, an encourager, mentor, entrepreneur, wife and mom, here to uplift, equip and inspire you with faith filled conversations and biblical wisdom.

Subscribe now so you never miss an episode and join our faith fueled community for more encouragement.

Hi.

Today on the podcast I would like to welcome our guest, Tondra Gregory.

She is relationship coach.

She's a licensed mental health counselor.

She is a mother of two young adult children.

Her and her husband also work with the NFL.

They help counsel and our chaplains currently for the, let's see, is it the LA Los Angeles Chargers?

She actually does the work with the women alongside her husband and they used to do the marriage ministry at Saddleback Church.

They're involved in so much and they've just released a book in July called the Marriage Game Plan.

It is developing a winning strategy for marital success.

And I'm excited to have this conversation today because much like her, I've been married almost as long.

I've been married for 26 years and I think they're married just over 30.

And you know, so I've been through, you know, decades of being married.

And so I love that they're helping couples, married couples from where at every point they're at, to really look at their marriage as something that needs a game plan, that they look at the marriage that it's, it's continuously changing and it has to be around a conversation and what we're putting into it.

And so I hope this conversation will encourage you to, you know, just get in there with your marriage and get going to make it the best it can be.

Because we all know when we have strong marriages and strong families, that is the backbone of what makes, you know, the world strong.

Because we can, you know, we don't have more broken families.

So I love it.

So, Tundra, welcome to the show.

You so much for having me.

Oh my gosh, you Guys are working with so many people in different capacities, but in most cases, it's too.

You help them win life and win in their marriage.

And so can you just share with us a little bit about life and about what you're up to now in the book?

Okay.

I am life right now.

I am being stretched beyond my comfort zone.

Way beyond my comfort zone.

And so, you know, in the Bible, when it talks about Jesus called Peter out the boat, I feel like I'm out the boat and I am trying to fight from sinking.

So that's.

That's what's going on right now.

And that is coming through.

Being authors, this is our first marriage book that we've written together.

This is my first book that I've ever written.

And just, I was thinking, okay, the hard part is going to be just writing this book.

But then the book opens up a whole nother realm of more speaking engagements and interviews and all of these things.

So I just feel like, yes, life right now, I'm in a stretching season outside of my comfort zone.

You know, what I love about that is we're supposed to be obedient and do the work that we're called to do.

And you guys felt on your heart not just to do the work with couples, but to actually put this book out there.

So people that don't work with you directly, directly always have this resource, this tool.

But what I love about that is so often when we actually take the step in obedience, God will give us even more.

Right.

So like you said, the book is only the another part of your story, and then from that he'll use it to even do so many more things.

Absolutely.

I love it, but it's a stretch, but I get it.

It's because you're growing into even more opportunities.

That's wonderful.

Absolutely.

I love that.

Okay, so your book came out, I think, the first of July.

And you know, you know, the gist is obviously it is supposed to be this book that helps people walk through these different things, that if we.

We don't, we don't just read about the examples and the scripture basis for it, but then we're to apply it and actually make it our own, Right?

Absolutely.

What would you just tell us about?

Why do we need a marriage plan?

First of all?

Yes.

We need a marriage game plan because, you know, after we get married, you know, and the happily ever after wears off.

Because it does, because life is happening and, you know, we're going to hit challenges and seasons of struggle, may not be in your marriage directly, but it could be just, you're in a season of struggle, health issues, having children, all those things, career changes.

And so after the dust settles, we actually need to make sure that we've locked in a game plan on how we want to navigate all of the challenges and the ups and downs and the twists and turns that life brings our way.

Because we don't have control over what life brings at us, but we do have control over how we react, how we respond, our perspective that we're going to have.

So a game plan.

Having a game plan puts the couple on the same page, heading in the same direction, which allows for that teamwork.

And it's.

It's being proactive versus reactive, knowing, okay, life is going to come at us.

Here's how we work best together, here's what each of us want to do to make sure that we are on the same page, moving in the same direction.

So true.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously I've been married a while, so, you know, it was a while ago we were thinking about this, and I know I took.

Maybe, maybe we went through, like a faith.

What is it called when you do the prior to marriage classes?

Premature class.

Yeah, I remember doing that, but even that, it was only scratching the surface.

Right.

And so.

And there's a lot of things that don't necessarily get talked through now.

Those classes might look different today than they did, you know, 26 years ago.

But the point is, I definitely know people over the years who.

They got married, and right off the bat, there was.

There was trouble.

Right.

And so one couple that I knew, and I don't remember if they were Christian, this was a long time ago.

They were friends of friends, but it didn't even last, like two months because the husband wasn't used to the wife.

They both worked full time and he didn't.

He was used to his mom doing everything for him.

And so when she wanted him to come in, in a partnership, he could, he couldn't.

He didn't even have the words to communicate and how to work through that.

And that's maybe an extreme example in just one little way.

But I think that's the point is we go into it and we haven't discussed all the things always.

But this marriage game plan, no matter what point of marriage we're in, because you're help.

This can help anybody.

Right.

Whether you're just getting married or about to, or whether you've been married for 20 or 30 or more years.

So what would you just say, like, whether you're new or you've been married, but you're starting to see some fissures.

You know, some things aren't quite lined up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because it's one thing to get married.

It's a whole nother thing to be married and to stay married.

And sometimes people think just because I got married or just because we're in love, it's going to just work out.

But it's.

It's about learning how to become one.

Right.

Learning how to make your marriage work.

And every marriage is unique and different in its own way.

I mean, it's going to be different from your parents marriage, your friend's marriage, but you, too, have to realize that it's about figuring it out.

So.

And that's what happened with George and I.

This is why we started our marriage ministry Journey for Life is because we like to say we're pictures of God, God's grace.

Like, we did not know what we were doing.

We were just doing.

We were just being haphazard, right?

Working out marriage haphazardly with no plan.

And we didn't realize how different we really were and how those things were going to work against us becoming one.

And so we, you know, we just.

Like I said, we're pictures of God's grace.

We just wanted to.

Once God helped us figure out how to make our marriage work, we just wanted to help as many couples as we can.

Because it's not something that's intuitive, is something that you educate yourself, you learn, you grow, you develop skills.

It's not about just what you've experienced, but it's.

It's not about you just making your spouse do everything the way you're comfortable with, but it's about how do.

What do we want to take from our experiences, our backgrounds, and why do we want to create our way?

Not my way, not his way, but our way, our unique way.

And a lot of times couples, you know, don't want, you know, it's the resistance to change.

So true.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah.

So, okay, I know one of the main first things that you have people you walk people through is the big thing, the hierarchy thing, or I mean, the highest thing, which is kind of having.

Setting a vision and a mission for your marriage, just like we might do for our career or if you own a business.

But, you know, I know you talk about in the book, we should really have that for every.

Like, you should have that for different parts of your life, but definitely for your marriage.

So what would you just say to people that, yeah, yeah, what would you say?

About that.

Yeah, definitely.

For your marriage.

I like to say marriage is one of the most important institutions that you will be a part of.

And we know in other institutions we have to get coaching, we have to read, we have to get education, we have to put the work in, we have to do all these things to be successful.

But a lot of times people feel like with marriage, you don't have to put those things in, but I feel like you really do, because out of all the things that's going to live beyond you, the legacy that you're going to leave is going to be through how you loved each other, how you.

What your kids observed, what your grandkids observed, what the community observed about your family.

So marriage requires no less effort, no less energy.

And we don't want to be making assumptions about our plan.

We don't want to be haphazardly doing our plan.

We want to be intentional about what legacy we want to leave.

And that starts at the beginning.

And then, you know, that starts with you having a vision, having a mission statement and working towards that end game picture.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

It's so powerful.

So I want to start at the beginning, the bit beginning being.

We.

We all bring in our backgrounds.

Right.

Somebody might call it baggage, whatever word you want to use, but it's, it's everything prior to that marriage, you know, you becoming, you know, one comes with you.

Right.

To some extent.

And like you said, we all have walked a different path in life up to that point.

So what can you share with us?

Because I think it's definitely.

We don't always realize in any relationship, but especially marriage, that the way maybe our parent was with us, the way that something happened to us or someone said something to us, we don't realize that we bring in those messages, those patterns, whatever it might be, into our marriage, and then we're having problems maybe, and we don't realize it's because.

Not because of us or our spouses necessarily, but because we didn't realize we're bringing this forward.

So how do you help people with those types of things or what do you recommend to them?

Yes, yes, I like to help people with those things because you have to ask certain questions to each other, provoking questions about how things shaped you.

What did that mean for you?

How did this impact you?

You know, what's the story in your head surrounding that particular thing?

And those are just the deeper questions to kind of bring those subconscious things out into a.

Into the conscious mind, into a conversation.

And it helps you get to know each other on a deeper level.

And it helps you know what your relationship dynamics are.

The more you can know what they are, the, the more empowered you are to get a game plan or a strategy or just so your spouse knows how important certain things are because, you know, they're filling some, some gaps in your background or your past.

So.

Yeah, so it's, it's those conversations, deep questions that's just, you know, one of the chapters in our book gives you a, a list of questions to really go deep.

And in it, to go deep with your spouse, you actually have to do that your own individual self.

When George and I were first married, I didn't realize these unconscious things that were playing out in our marriage.

And we were just in these gridlock type of conversations.

And I just remember saying, what is it about this scenario that just pushes my buttons?

And I had to do kind of a more introspection of what it is.

And it just helped me uncover like there were some things from my past that this circumstance was triggering those things.

And I was responding based off of a past circumstances and not my present circumstances.

And so that was very empowering for me to, to learn that and empowering for George to even know that.

And then it helped us get on the same page about how we want to navigate those type of circumstances going forward.

And I would imagine that for a lot of people that work, if they've never done that kind of work, is.

It's probably hard to pull that out even of yourself or to.

Right.

I would, I would think that in some cases that's not going to just be, oh, okay, I have these questions and it's going to come forth that may take some real mining for some time or sitting on that for a while, I would guess.

Yes, absolutely.

There have been different periods of time in our lives where we had to get professional help.

We've gone to conferences.

I know in the first beginning when we were trying to get out of our stuck place place and our dark place in our marriage, we went to the same conference seven years consecutively in a row.

No new content.

But we were just establishing the discipline of working on our marriage and getting outside of it and looking at it objectively.

And so we just wanted to have a habit of that, a discipline of that, but it was no new content.

We were just trying to find one thing, one new thing to implement in our marriage each time we went.

And so we've gone to so many counselors and individual as a couple.

And it.

So yes, it's, it's A.

It's a deep work depending on where.

What your background has been.

And it.

And it takes some combing and mining those things to bring them to the surface.

So.

So that you and your spouse can both be attacking that issue together as a team and not being solo in.

In your marriage.

Yeah, well, and I love that you brought up just the going to the marriage conferences, you know, working with people, because sometimes I think in, in any aspect of our life, but especially in this way, getting out of your environment can even just let you see things differently.

Like you may, you know, just maybe observing the other married couples, like stuff will click with you when you just take yourself to a different place sometimes.

Right.

As a couple even.

And so, you know, while that wasn't your main point of going, I think it.

It is a point because sometimes we can get stuck in a rut for whatever reason and if we don't do something a little different.

Right.

Have a new experience or go look for a new perspective, you know, or what's.

What am I noticing this year, right, at the conference the next time?

So I think that that's stuff that's great.

Yeah, I think, I think you hit a key part of it too.

It's sometimes we.

This is what I always say.

We're up close and personal in our relationship, and sometimes that's all we can like, focus on.

And sometimes just having a new environment turns you outward to focus on other things.

And it's equally as powerful to.

To hear that you're not the only couple.

When you go away and you're around other couples, peers, as well as the leaders on stage teaching, it's like, oh, wow, like this is normal.

It's not unique to us.

We're gonna get through this.

There is hope, you know, and just hearing other people's stories and journeys that can normalize some of the struggles that you're having, which really helps breathe hope and life into you.

And when you have hope in.

In a situation, you work at something differently than when you feel hopeless.

So.

Yeah, I think so.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So good.

Okay.

So some of the things that I seem to notice, and I obviously am not a rel relationship coach, but just with, you know, having a lot of married friends and being married a long time is some of two of the big things seem to be that it's our communication or not ever having learned how to communicate in the.

The best way possible.

Right.

In a marriage.

And so the communication slash conflict resolution.

So I'd love to talk about what do you just see whether it was in your own marriage when you've worked with people right in their relationships.

And then I think the other one is the difficulty we sometimes have with connecting or knowing how to stay connected.

So I'd love your thoughts on both of those things.

Yeah, yeah.

So we're different and God.

And that's intentional God.

God loves diversity.

He is so creative.

Like we have no two fingerprints are the same.

You know, he's just unique.

No two snowflakes are the same.

Like God is all about uniqueness and diversity.

And that's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Now the challenge is how do you take these two God designed individuals and now God calls them to become one in marriage.

And I do think that is a big challenge in the communication is that we're both different and we're both unique, which we, which we wish isn't a mistake.

But figuring out how the two different people, people, different personalities, different styles.

I mean, George and I are so different.

Down to minor things like being on time to places.

It's like I grew up where you could be 15 minutes fashionably late.

He grew up, his dad raised him to be 15 minutes early.

And we didn't even know that we were coming in with that.

Right.

But we would get into what we call fights, intense fellowship.

So we would get into these intense fellowship moments when it's time to go somewhere and we couldn't figure out why are we struggling or why are we getting in an argument, going on a date night or going to a Valentine's event.

But having these, communicating about even the smallest things that you are feeling that friction about can get clarity.

So you know, we, so just in a practical sense, George was like, oh, when someone says 10 o' clock, in my mind, I'm moving towards being there at 9:45.

And I'm like, oh, now that makes sense.

So that's like a 30 minute window difference.

And we are not heading towards the same goal.

We're pulling each other in the opposite direction.

So even just pausing and slowing down, intense fellowships or interactions enough to try to understand and ask the question I'm trying to understand, what does this mean to you?

What do you have in your mind right now?

Or what are you thinking about this topic?

And then you'll be surprised at the enlightenment of, oh, that's why we're having a, you know, intense moments over these things.

So slowing down the conversation, asking more questions of clarity and being curious about what's going on in each other's heads is some practical things that we can do to help improve our communication and connection is about being on that same page and understanding each other in a deeper way.

That's so good.

Yeah.

And I, I would just maybe add to that that it's also not over communicating but to your point, like when we're about to go somewhere, my husband and I maybe to an event, I'll say, okay, well I want to, I want to leave at this time.

Like I don't say what time we're getting there.

I tell him what time I want to leave because I know and it's not.

He's usually an on time person, but I definitely am.

But sometimes he'll be doing a project right around the house or somewhere else.

And so he'll be pushing the edge to when he gets a shower based on when he thinks we're leaving.

So if I told him when I want to get there, he'll be like, oh, we can get there in 15 minutes even if it's 23 minute drive.

And I'm like, no, that's why I have to tell him when we're leaving because that's when my expectation.

But if I just said oh well, the party's at 6 and we would be late and it's not because he intends to, it's because he's trying to do as many things as he can in that day up until we have to be somewhere.

So.

Right.

It's kind of that really clear on what is your expectation.

And I don't mean we always meet each other's expectations.

Exactly.

But it's.

If you're not clear on your expectation, then it's like unlikely to get met.

Exactly.

And like you were saying, like we, it's not that either of us have to meet each other's expectations.

Where we have to meet is coming up with our own way that we're going to do it.

So you take a little bit of George and a little bit of Tandra and then you come up with our way just using the example that I was just talking about.

So George gave up the right to be 15 minutes early, I gave up the right to be 15 minutes late.

And we came up with the agreed upon strategy of being on time on the dot in a little tweak like that where you're, you know, we're not forcing each other to do things the way the other one does, but we are both willing to sacrifice to meet on something that we can agree on and work Towards.

And I always say everybody has to give up something for the sake of unity.

For unity to take place.

Sacrifice is a part of reaching unity.

And you've got to be willing to sacrifice so that you can get an agreed upon strategy.

Oh, that's so true.

I mean, marriage is so much about compromise, but doing it from a servant's heart, I think.

Right.

It's, it's, it's doing it out of a place of love, not because I have to compromise all the time.

Right.

Because you know you're going to compromise sometimes what you would have really liked to do or whatever.

And then there's other times where as long as you're both giving, they're compromising for you.

Maybe something inactivity that wasn't their favorite.

Right.

Because it is going to be a little bit of a give and a take.

So.

That's so true.

Absolutely.

And like you said, you have to hear each other.

Because even about the timing thing.

Absolutely.

Like, if my husband said to me, like, oh, well, there's no way I can be ready or have an event until then, of course we talk about, well, when can we go?

And then I would text the people that invited us and let them know.

Right.

In other words, it's not like it has to be what I said it was, that he would tell me.

Well, hold on, I don't think that's going to work.

Right.

And then we'd have a conversation.

Yeah.

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

If you hadn't have verbalized anything, that would have left you guys in an assumption state which ends in frustration.

So.

Yes.

About clarity getting outside of our heads.

Absolutely.

Yes.

I'm the world's worst thing inside my head, so that's something I had to learn to get outside my head.

Yeah.

So what about, you know, what do you see with couples you work with with the importance of us connecting, you know, either going on dates or just doing things together.

And then of course, making sure that there's some level of intimacy.

However we define that, you know, in the particular marriage.

Yes.

Oh, I definitely think having rhythms already established and, and being faithful to those rhythms because life is so demanding, there's so much pressure on color.

They're getting pulled in so many directions.

And if you're not and create the rhythm and to make room in your calendar for these rhythms and honoring the rhythms, then before you know what, life has just demanded your calendar and you back and say, whoa, we haven't been on a date in three months.

How did this happen?

You know, But I feel like if you can be intentional and carve that time out and plan around it because it's just as important as any other meeting, any other activity, any other.

Sporting.

Events or kids thing.

It's.

It's just as important as all keep putting it on the back burner.

Because the best gift you can give your kids is a healthy marriage, a balanced perspective of prioritizing your marriage for them, because that's how they're learning how they're supposed to be treated and what they want to expect in their marriages.

You know, is is true thing for us to set the stage for that?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I mean, I. I definitely talked to people over the years when I had younger kids.

I mean, mine are all now, you know, 18 to 23.

So not little kids anymore.

They're adults.

But I remember when they were younger, like some people might say, like, well, we don't have a babysitter or we don't have, you know, okay, and that might happen, Right.

But you just get creative.

For instance, you might say, once the kids go to bed, we're going to have date night in the house.

Right.

And just set up an area to have time together so it doesn't have to be some elaborate thing always.

Or go spend a lot of money, because there's going to be times where that might not work for you, but it's the commitment of we're going to not work at all hours always.

We're not going to write.

It's going to have.

It's setting boundaries, but then also setting time right for the relationship.

Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

When our kids were smaller.

Yeah, it takes so much more juggling and you can just talk yourself out of it because there's so much work, so much money, so much effort.

But during those times, you know, kids don't know is what bedtime, you know, what time is their bedtime.

So George and I used to, on our date nights, put the kids to bed a little early because I get sleepy soon.

So we had to start a little early because I'm not a night person.

But we would tuck them in the bed early, close the blinds, and then we would just.

George, while I was tucking in, he would run and pick up food and bring it back or vice versa.

And that works while they're little.

And then I remember my son, he.

He's the oldest, and he started to say, when I would say it's bedtime, he'd be like, but it.

But the sun is still out.

How could it possibly be bedtime?

I was like, okay, we need a new Strategy.

So.

So we started what we call pillow talk, and that's getting in the bed after we tuck the kids, getting in the bed a little early because George and I have different times that we go to bed and get up, but we would get in the bed and just 10 or 15 minutes and just bond and catch up with each other's day.

So it's really not the quantity as much as it is the quality of time.

So, and.

And the intentionality.

So I would say the quality of time and just being intentional and making sure you find times to intersect your lives or not.

If not, then you're just growing parallel, like doing parallel lives, but you're growing apart.

Because through all of these life ups and downs and changes, we're changing.

So we're either going to be growing towards each other, growing with each other, or we're going to be growing away from each other.

Right?

Absolutely.

So let me ask you, what would you say, in a more general sense is the biggest struggle or roadblocks that couples tend to get stuck up on?

You know, like, where do we get stuck in marriage?

I know it's different for everybody, you know, whatever, in different seasons.

But.

But in general, where is maybe one or two of the bigger patterns?

You see that.

That people kind of need help to get unstuck?

Yeah, I feel like.

I mean, in my line of work, I'm.

I'm working with people who are really stuck.

Right.

And they've been stuck and they've developed a pattern of stuckness that I need to help them unravel.

So it may not be as intense for people who aren't feeling as stuck.

Right.

But for the most part, I feel like learning how to have tough conversations in their relationship.

You know, one of our chapters is called Tips for Tackling Tough Conversations because a lot of couples do get stuck in.

How do we have this conversation?

And especially we might have grown up in different households where, you know, maybe there's a household you grow up in where you don't talk.

Talk about tough conversations.

You don't talk about the elephant in the room, you tiptoe around it and you ignore it.

Or you might have grown up in a household where we just hit, you know, tackle it head on, and we are just being reckless and, and just going after that elephant with a.

With a.

With, I don't know, a ton, ton truck.

Right.

And so sometimes we avoid tough conversations because we don't know how to handle them or if we get involved in them, how do we.

How do we know how to get out of it or how do we move past it?

What do I do once I bring up this topic and it goes and it gets intense.

So I feel like that's a stuck place that couples really need kind of some steps in which to how to bring it up and how to talk about it, how to bring it to resolve and move forward.

And so just a couple of the tips that we talk about is just nipping in, nip it in the bud is the, is one of the most profound things.

It seems small, but if we don't go ahead and just talk about it and bring it up is only going to compound, build up, seeping out in ways that we can't control anymore.

So, so first of all, don't keep putting it off.

Go ahead and plan a time to talk about it and you can plan a time.

That's another practical step is you don't want to blind side each other with the tough conversation.

Tough conversation is usually a hot, hot topic.

There's a lot of emotions involved.

That's what makes it a tough conversation.

So, so bringing it up recklessly at a time at, at the wrong time.

You know, like we're thinking we're getting ready to get into bed and go to sleep and then you bring up, you know, it's not going to go well.

So you want to set it up for success and picking the appropriate time.

Agree.

Both of us agree on the time and knowing that this is we're going to tackle together.

I love, he used to say all the time, I have something I need to talk to you about.

And it's going to be a tough conversation.

And I like that because it prepared me.

It's like, okay, I know this is going to be a tough conversation.

Let me put my big girl pants on and let me sit here and not get offended, not get defensive, but really try to hear his heart because it's tough because he doesn't want to hurt me.

He wants, wants to handle it with care.

So it puts you in the right mind and the right perspective.

So those are just a few practical things that can help with one of the big places that a lot of couples are get, get stuck in.

Yeah, absolutely.

I, I, that makes so much sense to me.

And I would also say just this is, this is a small piece of that.

But I think it's very easy in our conversations.

We can misconstrue each other sometimes.

Right.

You know, maybe the tone was wrong and you didn't realize because you were tired or it's a hard conversation and it's easy to get defensive.

Right is the point.

And even if we don't mean to, and even if we know the person's coming with us, trying to be considerate, we can still get, like, defensive or snippy.

So how do you just guide couples through that?

Because it is hard to, like, hang up that defensiveness feeling and walk through the conversation.

Yes.

And what I tell couples is when you feel yourself being, being aware of what you're feeling and when you feel yourself getting to a place of defensiveness or being offended or hurt or escalated.

Sometimes we go into fight or flight.

We want to call a, a timeout, and we want to calm that down.

Because what happens when we become very emotional in the conversation, it shuts down the part of the brain that gives you the logic, which is the solution, focus part.

Because we're talking about this, because we want a resolution about it.

And we can never get that resolution if we keep escalating to the place and getting offended and defend, you know, offensive, offended and defensive and sending ourselves into fight or flight.

We have to take the pause, say time out.

You have to have an agreed upon pause, though.

You can't just shut down and just be like, I'm out.

Yeah, but it's communicating that pause.

Hey, like, I can feel myself really escalating right now.

This isn't going to be helpful moving forward.

So let's take a timeout.

Now, whoever calls the timeout, the other partner has to let that person have the time out.

Right.

Because I do find that, yes, it, you know, it's just like, no, no, we got to finish this.

Don't walk out on me.

You know, and that's why the communication of the timeout is so important.

It lets that person know, I'm not abandoning you.

This is important.

I'm hanging in here with you and I value it.

So that's why I need this time out so that I can go and calm, calm down.

And the person who is taking the time out, this is not your get out of jail free pass, because I know, oh, yes, I got out of that.

Hopefully he'll forget or she'll forget and we'll just know I won't have to have that conversation.

I say your timeouts should be about 15 minutes, no longer than 30 minutes.

And you are actively calming yourself down and you are coming back.

And that's how your spouse can say, all right, they're not abandoning me.

They're not abandoning this conversation.

They're going to come back shortly, and then we're going to resume the conversation.

But.

But in that timeout, you definitely need to be de.

Escalating yourself, remembering what's important, keeping the big picture in mind, knowing that the intention of their heart is not to harm us or offend us or attack us, you know, and vice versa.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I would guess that if this is an area which it would not be surprising for most, a lot of couples, like that conflict resolution or those hard conversations, I should say it's, you know, reading the books or going and getting help to help you get better at that communication skill set.

Because it is a skill.

Right.

And it does take work, especially if both of you have different ways you approach conflict.

My husband and I absolutely have different ways of approaching it.

So we have to be really careful because it can easily.

He can be somebody where I just want to bring something up and he wants to shut down, you know, so it's just.

It's just because of how we were raised different, you know what I mean?

So we have to be really careful about that, you know, and sometimes I just want to.

You know, I'm a woman.

I'm more that way.

Like, I want to talk something through, and he doesn't always.

And so I have to remember where he's coming from sometimes and give him a little time and space sometimes.

Right.

Or whatever.

Maybe opposite.

He has to do something different for me.

But so, yeah, I mean, sometimes we just have to go say, like, how can we do better, right.

At going through this?

Like you said, if it's somebody that can never seem to come, like, they're always needing timeouts, and they can't really, I guess, come and get that resolution, like you said.

Exactly, exactly.

And.

And it's also about talking about how we talk, too.

Like you, it's.

Right.

I know we always talk about the issue, but we also can talk about how we communicate together and come up with a strategy.

Because George and I are opposite of your husband.

I'm internal.

He's the one that's got to process it in the moment, out loud, verbally.

And I just stay in my head, get my own self together, and then I'm done, you know?

But again, that's where sacrifice comes into play.

No one gets to have it their way.

And we always joke, George and I say, if you want it your way, you got to go to Burger King.

That's their slogan.

You can get your Whopper anywhere you want it.

Right.

But what am I willing to give up about the way that I'm comfortable resolving conflict?

Because it's not about forcing the spouse to adopt your way.

But here's another area of sacrifice where it's like, you have to talk about how you communicate and get to a resolution, an agreeable.

A mutually agreeable resolution.

And so that's why George says, okay, I can allow you that time to be internal.

But I also, in order to do that, I need you to let me know when you're coming back.

Right.

So that, you know, you can have your time, but I can also have the way I find closure.

You can have the way you find closure, but don't keep me from the way I find closure, you know?

Oh, yeah.

So good.

So what would you just share with us about, you know, the God being at the center of our marriage and why that is so powerful and important?

Yeah.

Yes.

Well, God created marriage so he knows how.

How it's supposed to work, what we're supposed to get out of it, how to be successful at it.

So God being the center is a key component.

It's like our iPhones, right?

Like, if we don't.

If we don't go back to the creator to figure out, well, what.

What.

What's this design?

What's all the capabilities this can do?

And then we'll never really get the full potential of the iPhone if we don't go back to the creator of that iPhone and figure it out and the benefits and all the things that it's going to challenge us with and help us with.

So going back and keeping God at the center and making sure that he.

You're seeking him for, well, what did you create marriage for?

What am I supposed to get out of it?

How is it supposed to grow me?

How is this supposed to.

Supposed to help me?

And then this is how we learn to get out of it, what God has.

Has created it for now the world has its way.

Oh, but it's not a lot of times not aligned with the biblical way.

Sometimes it's countercultural.

But I know in the world, you know, in the world, it's about our secular, like, our happiness, right.

Do you find that person that makes you happy?

And.

And all of this is all about your happiness.

But if you look at it through God's eye is really about your sacrifice being made more in the image of Him.

And this person is supposed to challenge us.

We're supposed to grow in God's nature and character, and we're supposed to pass that on to our children.

How do you forgive?

How do you sacrifice?

How do you have longsuffering, patience, kindness all the fruits of God's spirit and his nature.

But marriage is where it starts, and then it's reflected to our children from generation to generation.

Yeah, absolutely.

So good.

Okay.

So what would you just want to share with us?

Just about all the relationship coaching you do from the book.

Whatever you want to share, just that we haven't covered yet.

That you would just love to, you know, speak or encourage of the listeners.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we are so excited about this book.

We have poured our heart and soul into this book.

We feel like God has been writing this book through our marriage for.

For the last 30 years.

And just to have everything come together in this book is just.

We.

We're just out, you know, outside of ourselves.

But what we're really excited about is this book is not just you're just not going to be reading, but we have a Putting it into practice section at the end of each chapter where you will then apply what we were just talking about.

You will begin to work on that specific area.

And at the end of every chapter is a QR code that you will scan to receive coaching from George and I on that particular chapter as well.

And what couples will be surprised about is that as they're reading, doing the putting it into practice sections, doing the virtual coaching, they're going to be writing their unique marriage game plan.

And by the time they get to chapter 10, it will put everything together for them that they can take away and continue to refer back to it as needed and adjust as needed as life happens.

But it's a very interactive book and is really.

Its goal is to really give you a game plan for your marriage, your unique marriage.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Beautiful.

Absolutely.

I mean, that.

That makes it, you know, just such a more powerful tool.

Right.

Like you said, that it's.

Because at the end of the day, it is each per.

Each couple's own game plan.

Right.

For their marriage.

And they are all different because, like you said at the beginning, we're all uniquely made and even each spouse.

Right.

And so, so good.

So let me ask you this.

What is filling you up, you know, as you're busy in the season of promoting the book and working with clients and everything else?

Well, I feel like what's filling me up in this season is living on mission right now.

I, you know, I kind of put my career kind of on the back burner to, you know, be a mom, be a wife, be supportive, raise my kids, just be fully present.

And that was important to me.

And I was very.

It filled me up.

I grew up with A single mom, she didn't.

She could.

She didn't have the same opportunities that I was having to be very present with my kids.

And that filled me up in that season.

And now that my kids are launched and they're on their own, I. I feel like living on mission with that God has called me to is so full fulfilling right now for this part of my life.

And I'm just so surprised at how life giving it is and energizing it is.

And I just want to be a good steward over this second half of my life.

And it's really filling me up.

It's bringing out new things that I didn't know I had in me that was saved up for such a time as this.

And so, yeah, so it's really encouraging that God has a plan for us.

If we keep him first and make sure we do it in his order, he's always got the plan.

You're not missing out.

You're not missing a beat.

He will put you right where you're supposed to be at that right time.

Absolutely.

All right, can you share with us, where can people find out more about the book and all the other ways that you're working with people?

Yes.

So you can find the Marriage Game Plan in.

In your favorite online bookstore.

Amazon is very popular, so a lot of people get.

Get it from Amazon.

And also our marriage ministry is called Journey for Life.

Our website is journey for life now.org and that's where you'll find the Marriage Game Plan, our book also other resources we have.

We do relationship coaching, individual coaching, grand group coaching, all these aspects.

And we are launching the Marriage Game Plan podcast this week.

So we'll also be giving tips and talking about relationship.

All things marriage and relationships on the podcast as well.

Oh, I love that.

I can't wait for that to come out.

That'll definitely be another extension of how you can, you know, just encourage couples in their walk of being married.

So I love it.

Well, thank you for joining us today for sharing your heart, for sharing the wisdom that you've gained over 30 years of marriage and then over all the years that you or and your husband have worked with people in their own marriages.

And yeah, I just.

I just pray that this will, you know, bless and give some people that, like you said, that hope that we can all have stronger, really beautiful marriages.

Even if right now it feels like we're stuck in some way, there is hope.

God can do all things.

We just have to go and do the work, you know, go to him with it and so, yeah, I just thank you for coming on, joining us today.

Yes.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you for giving a platform for women to come and share their faith and their journey.

And I really appreciate that.

Thank you so much.

Okay.

As we wrap up today's episode, I wanted to share a scripture with you.

And then just one idea.

So the scriptures from Ephesians 4, 31, 32, which says, banish bitterness, rage and anger, shouting and slander and any and all malicious thoughts.

These are poison.

Instead, be kind and compassionate, graciously forgive one another just as God has forgiven you.

And while that might not have been written specifically about marriage, what good advice, especially in our marriages.

And so I also wanted to share just a quick idea with you from the devotional by Michelle Peterson.

It's called a couple's devotional, and it says, I thought my marriage would be a relationship with this man whom I fell in love with.

I thought we'd hang out and make out and see what became of our lives together.

Instead, my marriage has become a sanctuary.

Marriage is a holy place, and nothing holy can be experienced without transformation.

And I hope from today's conversation, today's interview, I hope that what you got from this is it's all about transformation, right?

It's coming together.

It's learning to communicate.

It's learning to compromise.

It's learning to work together.

It's learning to put our spouse first.

It's learning to put God in the middle of our marriage.

And so it's all about transforming our hearts.

It's about transforming two people, right, who have two different backgrounds, two different experiences, and transforming them into one married couple.

In working through marriage, there's going to be different seasons.

There's going to be different things we have to walk through.

Some are going to be hard or devastating, and some are just going to feel like seasons where maybe marriage feels more stagnant or maybe we need to get professional help.

Whatever you're walking through, just remember it is about having a vision and a game plan for a marriage.

And as we grow and mature over the decades, that game plan is going to be added to, edited, altered, potentially.

And so I hope today's conversation just blesses your marriage.

I hope that there are some tidbits that you can take away.

And definitely if you're somebody that's looking for more relational and marriage guidance, then definitely check out the new podcast, the Marriage Game Plan or the Marriage Game Plan book that Tondra and her husband wrote.

Thanks again for listening to the show and if you enjoyed today's episode.

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