Step inside the world of executive mastery with The Fire Inside Her, where our host Diane Schroeder welcomes the astute Emily Sander, author and revered leadership coach. Their conversation traverses the complexities of corporate dynamics and the stealthy role of a chief of staff, likened to an air traffic controller for leadership teams. Listen in as Emily unveils the transformative powers of self-care, coaching, and authenticity that redefine what it means to lead. With personal narratives and poignant advice, this episode promises to ignite that spark in leaders seeking not just to improve themselves, but to empower those they serve. Tune in for a compelling exploration of the leadership labyrinth, guided by two women who have navigated its twists with grace and tenacity.

Emily Sander is a C-Suite Executive turned Leadership Coach.

She is the founder of Next Level Coaching. As an ICF-Certified Coach, she helps business professionals step into effective leadership with one-on-one coaching.

She’s written two books:

- "Hacking Executive Leadership" and

- "An Insider’s Perspective on the Chief of Staff."

How to connect with Emily

www.nextlevel.coach

LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com/in/emilysander/

How to connect with Diane:

www.thefireinsideher.com 

Diane@Thefireinsideher.com 

Instagram

@TheRealFireInHer 

LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com/in/dianeschroeder5/

Are you excited to get a copy of the Self Care Audio download that Diane mentioned?

You can get that HERE –TheFireInsideHer.com/audio

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Welcome to The Fire Inside Her, the podcast where we explore the incredible stories of individuals who have discovered their inner fire on their journey to authenticity. I'm your host, Diane Schroeder, and I am so grateful that you are here.

Hi, friend. I'm so grateful you're here. A couple of housekeeping tips before we dive into the show. If you aren't already receiving my mostly regular emails that offer wisdom, humor, and practical tips, I invite you to sign up at thefireinsideher.com/list. And I would love to hear what burning questions you have for me from an episode you listen to or if you're just curious about me and have a question about navigating the transitions in life, the journey to authenticity, community, self-care, the options are endless. Send them my way, and each month, I will select a couple of questions to answer on a show. You can DM me on my Instagram at The Real Fire in Her, shoot me an email, which is in the show notes, or I recently signed up for Voxer at The Fire in Her. I look forward to hearing from you. Now, onto this week's show.

Have you ever been curious about the chief of staff position? I see it all the time on LinkedIn. I know I was very curious about it. What about how self-awareness and authenticity empower you in the workplace? Do you consider yourself coachable? In our conversation, I learned from my guest, Emily Sander, a former C-suite executive who transitioned to leadership coach, all of the answers. Emily shares her insights on the importance of psychological safety, personal growth through failure, and the value of coaching for those open to learning and development. I know you'll enjoy this episode.

Today, we get to dive into a topic that is near and dear to my heart. That I love so much, and that is leadership. Emily, thank you for taking the time to speak with us today. How are you doing?

I'm doing very well. Thank you for having me.

I am excited, and I'm dying to know who is your leadership crush?

Leadership crush. Oh, my goodness. It's like a combination of people. So, I had this one mentor who was just fantastic. And early, early in my career, he saw something in me that I didn't see myself. So, he saw a potential that I didn't see me, and he told me, and that just kind of set a whole trajectory of my career. So, Ed Barton, for sure. And then kind of amongst the world, Jacinda Ardern, who was the former prime minister of New Zealand.

Yes. She's badass.

She is. Yeah. And she's just empathetic. She went through COVID. She went through a shooting. She kind of changed policy there. So, and when you hear interviews with her, she's literally like, I could see you at, like, the grocery store, and that would be normal. So, it’s that weird balance. It's very, very down to earth, but yet she's very strong. So, that's one. And I think from the business world, I mean, Steve Jobs might not have been, like, the nicest boss to work for, but, oh, innovation. I see things where other people don't. Oh, my goodness. So, that's amazing to me.

I love it. It's more like a dinner party. And I guess I would be the same for me. I don't know if I could have, like, just one leadership crush, but I would love to have an ideal dinner party of the leaders and mentors who've guided me. So, thank you for sharing that.

I love leadership too, and I could just talk leadership forever. So, I'm curious. What moved you to leave your C-suite position to become a leadership coach?

Well, I was reflecting back on what were my favorite parts of all of my corporate roles, and it was the, like, mentoring and coaching aspects of all of those. Once I put those together with, oh, coaching is a thing that you can go do and have it as a job. I thought, you know what? If I can wake up and do nothing but my favorite thing all day, then, you know, you never work a day in your life type of deal. I feel like I was built to be a coach, and I was meant to do that. And so, when you're in kind of that flow or in your purpose, it's just like, here it is. It's not a thing you choose. It just kind of takes you.

Yes. Beautifully said. I think about that as I've made the leap into coaching and hosting a podcast and all these things that I absolutely love doing. And for so many years, I had this, like, negative in my head saying, oh, but you can't do that. Like, you still have to like, there's some form of suffering I felt I needed to do, or imposter syndrome. Like, no. You still have to do what you don't love, because, really, how can you actually do what you love and never work a day in your life? So, I resonate with that from a different perspective. And I don't know if the same happened to you, but what I found when I started doing my coaching training, like, how do you know you're meant to be a coach? What do people come to you for? Like, asking all these questions. I'm like, oh, I've been doing this forever.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, I was a coach before. Yeah. I knew what coaching was. Okay. Cool.

I know that a lot of the archetypes for leadership of your servant leadership are authoritarian, those are really old and archaic. And I don't think that you can be just one type of leader, because then you're not very flexible and you're not very adaptive, which is a huge part of leadership. So, what is your leadership style? Like, how do you, you know, navigate coaching, and how do you impart your leadership style when you're coaching?

Well, I'd pick up on a few of the things you said. So, first of all, I would say I'm an adaptable leader. I'm a situational leader, and I'm also a leader of excellence. And so, I try to espouse that in a couple ways. 1st of all, by leading by example. Right? So, just by being excellent myself, hopefully, people on the team will see that. But then also supporting, encouraging, pushing, challenging my team members to also be excellent and to also be as good as they can be, I think that people respond to that. So, sometimes it is encouragement, and sometimes it is picking someone off the floor when they've, you know, made a “mistake or a failure”. And sometimes this is a piece that a lot of people miss is people like to be challenged. People like to be pushed and say, I can't, no. I can't do that. And then someone pushes them, and then they do it. And they look back, and they say, I did that, and I didn't think I could. That is powerful. That's powerful as leadership.

Yes. Thank you for sharing that. You know, when I was in the fire service, there were times where I had to be like a dictator because I was telling people what to do if a building is on fire or if there's a critical situation. There really wasn't, like, room for negotiation or, you know, anything like that. Now my guys could always speak up if there was a safety concern. But, overall, it was like, no. You have to be this way. And then flip the gear to be like, okay. That was a tough call. Let's process it. Let's talk about it. Let's have that caring. Do you have, like, one word that you would sum up leadership for you? Like, what does leadership mean to you in one word?

I mean, you mentioned servant leadership was old, but service. I think of, like, how can I serve today? Meaning, you know, when you wake up in the morning, most people go, okay. Like, what am I doing and how can I get ahead and, you know, how can I make sure I look good in this meeting? And instead, if you wake up and say, how can I serve my team? How can I serve my company? How can I serve our customers? You have a very different lens on. Right? So, you're seeing experiences. You're going into interactions in a much different way. So, I think service. And to your point, you can be serving someone by telling them to get out of the building. And, you know, like, light and breezy tones don't cut it when the building is on fire. So, I think service can be in all forms.

I love that. So, I want to talk a little bit more about that. I just gave a talk last week on building more capacity in your life. I think that, you know, when it comes to taking care of ourselves, it's easy to take care of everyone else, pour from a small cup or an empty cup. So, my challenge during that talk was to create a bigger cup so that you don't have to worry about always refilling yours. You just have more capacity in your life. And I think it's confusing at times or it can be confusing if people identify with being a servant leader or, you know, based in service, that somehow that translates into not taking care of yourself. Do you see that?

I do see that. So, number 1, I did that for a good long time.

I'm guilty as well.

Oh, yeah. But, yes, I've seen that in my teams that I've led and also, certainly, my coaching clients. I think there is, you know, the word servant. Some people take the connotation of that as kind of being less than or of subservient to something else, which is that's not the same as being of service. Right? So, I think if you are truly wanting to serve at your best, you have to be in peak performance.

And to be in peak performance, you got to take care of yourself. It's like you're training for life and you're training for leadership. Because if you think about it, you're going out every day, and you're having these interactions and moments of leadership and certainly decisions. Right? So, leaders, business, politics, military, all over, they're getting paid to make high quality decisions. And if you're tired and if you're stressed and if you're, you know, not thinking of the right things, we all know our decisions kind of go down the drain. Right? Whereas that feeling when you wake up and you're like, oh, like, I'm rested or, like, I'm in the zone. Like, that feels much different, and so you're able to serve better that way.

I could not agree more. It's nice to hear that from another person in the leadership world and in the coaching world. So, how do you work with your clients to impart self-care, that piece of leadership? I think a lot of times when we think of leaders, you know, and, oh, I'm going to get a leadership coach. Cool. Teach me how to be a better leader, when, really, it's, no, teach me how to be better for me first. What's your process sifting through that?

That's a good word, sifting. So, it's figuring out where they are today. So, a lot of people have the mindset we just talked about, which is I can't take care of myself. Too many people are counting on me. I hear that or some version of that over and over and over again. And it is flipping the script in their head to say, in order to best serve people, I have to take care of myself. And, you know, intuitively, once we get into these discussions, people are like, oh, yeah. Like, when I'm stressed and whatever, and I come home, spouse doesn't like that. Yeah. I have a bad energy with the kids. I'm like, mm-hmm. So, you know, they need you to show up a certain way. You've got to manage yourself and take care of that. But it's also trying to make it not a, this is another thing you have to do, and it's going to take time and working to do. Oh, my gosh. Like, oh my gosh. I have too much already. So, it's really, you know, how can we make your life easier, and how can we give you some tools and strategies to get you at peak performance more often? Because most people say, oh, like, when I do this and when I'm here, like, I'm in my zone and things just come easily. And I love it. Time goes by without me really thinking about it. And if we can make those times more frequent or longer or be kind of the rule versus the exception, then a lot of people can get on board with that pretty quickly.

Yes. Yes. Well said. I'm getting goosebumps, so thank you for expressing that. So, tell us a little bit about your story and kind of your journey to not just becoming a leader and a coach, but, you know, just a little bit of your story and background.

Sure. So, one kind of through line of my story is I'm a recovering perfectionist. I was very business oriented. My parents were successful business people in their own right. And so, I wanted to be like them. It was funny growing up, both my parents, you know, had their stuff together and were good people. And I remember thinking as a kid, oh, well, you know, once you get to be grown up, like, you have common sense and you're good to people and you have integrity and all these things. And as I got older, literally, as I went to high school, I went to college, I was like, why isn't this happening? Like, why aren't people behaving this way? And I was like, oh, because I had 2 amazing role models. So, I had that to look up to, but also to try to live up to. And so, I had that. I was in the business world in my career. I did very well, but I was almost always the youngest in the leadership team or the least experienced by tenure. You know? And so, I would go into these meetings, and I would kind of, like, shrink and be like, okay. Well, these are all the, you know, professional pedigreed experienced people, and here's little old me. And I wanted to be perfect. Right? So, I didn't just want to get by. I wanted to be impressive in those meetings, and I wanted to prove that I belong to be at that table. And so, I threw pretty aggressive self-improvement. I got there. But I would say, if you met me 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago, you are meeting almost an entirely different person. The other through line is I always was driven to learn and grow. And, again, that started with my parents who just taught me that from a very young age, you will be a lifelong learner. That's something you do until the day you die. And that, I absolutely did that in all the stages of my career and all the areas of my life. And I would say that's really served me well as well. It's just always being open to, hey. You can give yourself credit and acknowledgment for being good at something, but you can always get better, and you can always improve and fine tune and just find those different advantages and places where you can get an edge.

That is so, so well said. And I want to go back because I think it's important that, you know, when you're sitting in those, you know, those rooms where you're the youngest or least experienced, I don't know how it is in corporate America, but I assume there probably aren't a lot of women either in those rooms. And you shouldn't be the same person today that you were 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago, in my opinion. I think that, you know, we should all be growing and evolving. You know, I know you did a lot of the self-improvement work, but did you ever feel like you had to be someone you weren't? Like, that imposter, like, okay. Well, if I'm sitting here, then I have to act a certain way, or have you always just been your authentic self? You know? And that's kind of a loaded question.

I was certainly not my authentic self. I went in there and I said, I have to be a certain way. I wasn't pretending to be someone else per se, but it was a very, like, heightened or just, you know, I'm supposed to be in this mold in this situation, and so let me play to that. Right? And so, I would certainly do that. And the thing I found is when you are making effort to be something that you're not, it takes energy. Right? It, like, sucks energy. And sometimes we have to do that just in life. It's sometimes okay. We all play our roles in different situations, and you kind of got to do that to move on. But I would really encourage people to take inventory of when they're doing that and where they're doing that and how much they're doing that because it does take energy. And, again, sometimes, yep, I can see I'm using energy, and that's what I need to do. And sometimes it's like, oh my gosh. Whenever I walk through the office doors, like, I get, like, super stressed, and I just start draining energy. And that stuff you can't use for being creative, making decisions, communicating with people, and all those things. So, once I figured that out, and by the way, I figured that out by crashing and burning a few times, draining the energy. It's like, oh, this is not good.

I said, okay. There's kind of a certain level of, I don't want to say, decorum, but just, hey. I'm a leader, and I want to make sure I'm open with people and not jumping down people's throat. So, I kind of want to use some energy to make sure I'm showing up like that. But let me close the gap between my authentic self and who I'm showing up as because it feels better. It takes less energy. And, also, you know, people pick up on when you're being fake and when you're not. Right? Like, consciously, subconsciously, they can pick up on that as, like, something's not quite right. And for me, when I feel that or I observe that with someone else, I don't trust them. I'm like, my Spidey sense is going off. And for some reason, I can't put my finger on it, but I don't trust them. And so, of course, as a leader or in any relationship, the foundation is trust. So, showing up and signaling to people, like, hey. You can trust me because I know who I am, and I know what I'm about. And, I'm here to just have this moment and cocreate this moment with you.

That is perfectly said. And to add on, I think it also creates this level of psychological safety. Okay. Well, my boss, my leader, is being genuine, is being authentic, and admitting, you know, just being real, so I feel like I can be real then. It creates the synergy between everyone, and then everyone's, you know, all of a sudden, like, oh, wow. I can just be myself and that sense of belonging, which I think is popular right now. I DEI and belonging is really trending, and I think that's important. I'm not dismissing that.

I think it's easy to confuse, you know, you can have diversity, but if you don't have inclusion, then it doesn't matter. It doesn't, you know, you've got to create that space where everyone feels safe. So, what tips, if you could give a couple tips to people listening, like, what can they do to start kind of upping their leadership game? Do you have, like, just some real easy, like, start doing this now, and it will, you know, because it's the long game. I think that's really important to say that leadership is a journey. It's not a destination, and it is a long journey. You're going to, you know, like you said, you're going to stumble. You're going to fail. You got to figure it out as you go, and now you're responsible for also figuring it out and helping light the path for those that are following you.

Man, that's a really good question. That's a big question. So, a couple things that would come up there is playing the long game, and so, it's not doing these wind sprints. Right? So, you're like, hey. Let me pace myself. I used to hate the word pace yourself, Emily. Oh, it's like, why would you pace yourself when you can sprint? Again, there's consequences to that decision. I think too, it's self-awareness. Right? So, it's hard to change something or improve something when you aren't aware of what's currently happening. And I would encourage leaders in all areas to get 360-degree feedback loops. And so, you can go in business that's like where I would ask my boss, my peers, and my direct reports to fill out a survey, and then the survey would collect feedback and basically tee up the answers and patterns. And those are super useful. So, I would, you know, for things that I know I didn't do too well at this, but, oh, I didn't know that that was really, really upsetting Amanda in the meeting when I did that. Okay. Or I knew I was kind of, you know, this is my area of strength and I was kind of doing good, but, oh, I didn't know that when I took time to explain how to do performance reviews, that meant a lot to my management team. That's easy. Let me do more of that.

So, I would have some self-awareness. Don't be afraid of feedback because it can only help you. And then kind of going along with what we were saying, don't be afraid to “fail”. You're going to need to do that in order to grow. And so, one of the things that I've learned in my life and now coach people on are if you find something you're scared of, my way of dealing with that was avoidance. I was like, oh, I'm scared of public speaking. Let me avoid that at all costs. I'm sick. I'm sick that day. I have to give a presentation. And now it's, hey. Look for that cocktail of excitement and fear. Right? So, it's got to be, you know, mostly excitement and a little bit of fear baked in there. So, look for those moments and then just say, yes. Don't think about it. Just say yes. I know that it'll get you there. So, one quote that I love in that vein is, I am successful because I fail more times than you're even willing to try.

Oh, I am successful because I fail more times than you are willing to try. That is powerful. That is so powerful.

Yeah. And, I mean, the thing is people, when they play small, it's due to insecurity. Right? They're scared of looking like a fool, right, looking silly in front of people. Oh, I have to admit to my family and friends that decision I made didn't quite work out the way I wanted. That's negative. But you got to play bigger than that and say, I was meant for something, and I have a lot to offer. And if I play small, the world is lesser for it. Right? So, for all maximizing our potential or playing the big game, so to speak, you win, yes. But everyone around you wins as well. And so, you have to again, that service, maximizing yourself. You're helping people when you do that.

Absolutely. That's great. Professional and personal advice. So, thank you for sharing that, because I think a lot of times, we get caught up in these cycles of, man, if I screw up, people are going to judge me. If I fail, you know, I'm going to embarrass myself, or what are people going to think of me? But if I stay where I am now, then, man, I'm not happy, or, you know, I didn't learn. And I think reframing that throughout life, we're supposed to grow. We're supposed to fail. We're not supposed to be making the same decisions we made when we were 5 years old, or even at 20 years old. Hopefully, we've got a little more experience in that to move us along. Some people do not, and no judgment. There's still time. Right? Like, you can still open yourself up to work on yourself.

There's a little judgment. No. I'm just kidding.

So, you say that you love leadership so much that you wrote a couple of books on it. Would you mind sharing a little bit about those?

Certainly. So, I wrote, my first book was Hacking Executive Leadership, and I wrote that during COVID because lockdown happened. I was going a little bit crazy, and so I was like, let me do something. And so, I basically took all the frameworks and all the tools that had helped me throughout my career, helped my colleagues and my coaching clients and put them all in one book. So, you got decision making frameworks. You have, failure loop, which we kind of talked about here a little bit. Communication tips and tricks just to make you a more effective communicator. And then the second book I wrote was, An Insider's Perspective on the Chief of Staff.

And so, that's a role that I held in business, the chief of staff. People kind of know it from, like, politics or the military, that type of thing, but it's becoming more and more common in business. But people aren't even in business aren't quite sure what it is or how to use it or how it works. And so, I wrote that book on that, and it's been very well received. And just kind of getting the word out about this role, it can be when it's set up, it can be a game changer. You can have a chief of staff who is a pivotal player on your leadership team. So, just getting the word out about that.

Tell me a little bit more about what a chief of staff is. I'm curious.

Sure.

I have heard of it as well, but think of, like, The West Wing.

The chief of staff is an executive leader, so they sit on the executive team. And it's a dynamic role, so there's no one way to be chief of staff. But the analogy I like to use is an air traffic controller. So, you know, at the airport, those big towers. And, speaking of towers, there's a growler plane going on above me. So, if you can hear that, I apologize, but God bless our military. So, we'll let them do what they need to do. But basically, the air traffic controller is in the tower, and they're coordinating with all the pilots and all the airlines and all the ground crew to make sure the airport is running like it's supposed to. So, everything's on time. Everyone's going in the right direction. There's not a lot of delays. And if you think about that, that's what a chief of staff does for a company. So, they hold the leadership team together. They make sure everyone's resourced, you know, gassed up, equipment's working right, and they all know where they're supposed to be, and they are getting there on time. So, that's the chief of staff at a high level.

Oh, that's cool. That would be a fun role, I think. Because you're kind of like the designated adult in a different level. You're the designated adult of the designated adults.

Well, yeah. Sometimes there does need to be some adult supervision on leadership teams where sometimes our childish natures come out even when we're 50, so it's all good.

Yeah. Well, you know, it's part of that joy in finding in laughter. That's always my first expectation when I sit down. When I would sit down with my teams or my crew, I'd be like, alright. The number one rule is laughter. We have to figure out a way to laugh. Now not at each other. It shouldn't cost anything because, you know, in the firehouse, I would say that it's not as funny when you have to read it back on the legal stand or to a lawyer, or when the lawyer's reading it back to you, but just, you know, finding that humor and that because it helps process all the heavy things in life. Right? You just have to figure out a way to laugh. If you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit about how you coach clients and how people can find you to work with you, and who would be a good fit to work with you.

Yeah. So, thank you for that. I kind of work with 3 main groups. So, the first one is founders or entrepreneurs who are at that inflection point or tipping point in their business where they're having to scale exponentially, and they don't know how to do that. So, I help them through that process. The second bucket is probably early executives in career transition. So, for instance, if you're just got a director level role or a VP level role, and then you're like, yes. I got the promotion. Oh my gosh. What do I do now? That's when they call me. And then the 3rd bucket is, chiefs of staff or their principals. So, the principals like the CEO, the chief of staff reports to. I work with a lot of those given my background and the book and everything. That's kind of the 3rd bucket I have.

Wow. That is fantastic. And when you work with clients, how long is the process? And, like, in general, because I know, like, it varies, obviously, for what people need. But in general, what would you say? I had a guest on a couple weeks ago, and she said, you know, you pay for coaching because you're paying for speed. You're getting from point A to point B a little bit faster with more clarity. How long does that take? I get that question a lot from, so that's why I'm asking.

Yeah. You're right. It depends. So, I would say on average, on average, it would be about 6 to 10 sessions. And that could happen, you know, once a week or once every other week or kind of the frequency can vary. But just to get people out of the starting blocks and give them a really good, like, tool belt and things to work with, then that's the amount of time. But certainly, there's ones that are like, Emily, I have a panel interview, next Thursday at 2. Can we prep for this? I'm like, yes. Okay. So, we have a very specific piece. I have other people going, Emily, I've always been an operational doer, and I want to be a strategic thinker and leader. Can you get me there? Yes. I can. That's going to take longer than, you know, a handful of sessions. So, it runs the gamut. But certainly, I love working with people at different stages, and we figure out what's going to work for you and get you to where you want to go. We always find something that works.

Absolutely. And I think that's the point is it's really as much up to the client as it is to the coach, because you can offer the best ideas and, you know, offer advice or offer what you need to offer as a coach, but it's really up to the person to do the work to make the progress.

Someone said, like, is there anyone that you don't coach or are difficult people to coach? And I said, I can't coach someone who's not coachable, which sounds simple. But if you're, like, not I can tell you all the things that you, you know, maybe could be doing. But, yeah, again, if you're not ready to go there, then there's no one can help you. So, I think, certainly, if you're like, nope. I'm open to at least considering ideas, you have to take everyone, but consider ideas and be open to owning my responsibility in things, then you can get far with coaching. You talked about that acceleration piece. Oh, my goodness. You can get far. Because you're getting objective feedback. You're getting someone whose job is, like, to be 100% in support of you. When do you get that? Like, when do you get a dedicated time where someone's, like, locked in on you and all they care about is getting you to your next level and being successful? That can be powerful for a lot of people just to have that dedicated time. If you're ready to grow and learn and you're open to different ideas, then, you know, coaching can get you far.

Yes. Yes. That is very well said. So, we talked a little bit about the importance of self-care for a leader. What do you do to take care of yourself? Like, how do you prioritize your self-care routine?

Yes. This is a constant thing because I kind of my natural default is just run, run, run, run, run. But what I do is, in the morning, I'll take time to set myself up for the day. And so, I'll do a little journaling. I'll meditate for even a very short period of time. Sometimes it's literally 30 seconds and sometimes it's up to 30 minutes. Just depends on the day. And then I write down my top priorities for the day. So, usually, it's like, hey. You know, take walks or stay hydrated, and then here's the top work things. And here's, you know, when you get home, make sure you're present for the family. Things like that. And so, that helps me keep clear and stay focused throughout the day. And then during the day, I have, you know, calls at various times, but I really, really try hard to get up and walk, ideally outside. So, I usually get 2 to 3 walks. And they say something about being outside and fresh air and nature is helpful for your body and brain chemically. And so, I try to just even stand outside if it's raining or something, just stand outside and breathe. And if I'm getting stressed, if I can feel myself, like, oh, something really upset me, then I'll do a 3, 2, 1 exercise, which is where you look at 3 objects and you kind of name them in your head even. And you're like, okay. Here's my phone. Here's my iPhone. There's the camera. Okay. And then you do you stop and you get quiet and you listen for 2 things. And most of the time, we zone that out. But if you listen for 2 things, oh, okay. That's where I am perception wise. And then you touch one thing. So, here's the table. Like, the table's here. And I find when I do that, it's using your senses, and so it's bringing you back into the, oh, I'm actually sitting in this room talking on a podcast. Got it. Okay.

I love that. I learned that from my son. It was something that he had learned when we were doing some therapy years ago, and he would get super anxious. And that's what his therapist told him, like, I am using that. That is amazing.

I will take that. Thank you.

Yes. And I don't know. My experience of transitioning to an entrepreneur and kind of working by myself has been pretty lonely. So, I'm finding that community, while it's always been important, is even more essential to my mental well-being now. What is your community like, and how do you rely on your community?

Yes. For sure. So, I would say I have a lot. I have, like, the coaching community, so I stay in touch with that. And then I'm also in the podcast community and kind of speaking community. And then my actual community, we have our church community that we go to. And then we also have Chamber of Commerce and Business locally supporting those businesses and all of those things. But we just try to stay involved and plugged in and figuring out where we can help people, but there's communities at lots of different levels.

Yes. Yes. Awesome. Well, Emily, thank you so much. My final question before we end this great interview with so many insights is what would you tell your 10-year-old self that you wished you would have heard if you could go back and say, man, this is what I need to tell my 10-year-old Emily this.

Yeah. It's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. You don't have to worry as much. Don't freak out about stuff. Don't fret. Not worth your time. You're going to be fine, and you're going to do great. So, yeah, that's funny. 10-year-old Emily. That's a trip.

I know. I know. I love asking that question, and I will tell you more often than not, that is the answer I get. It's going to be okay, and just breathe.

Yeah.

And I think that's what I would like to tell, really, every version of myself that.

Yeah. And it's funny because we say that, and then I'm like, oh, like, what am I going to say to myself when I'm, like, you know, 60 or 70? Probably, it's going to be okay. Stop freaking out. So, it's like, oh, let me put these things together.

Yeah. Yeah. It takes a little bit longer to get up, but it's going to be okay.

The joints are stiff and cold weather, but it's fine. It's going to be good.

Exactly. Awesome. Well, I will put all of your contact information and the links to and you have a podcast as well, which I know we didn't talk about, but I will link to the podcast because it's all about leadership as well.

Yes.

So, everyone, check it out. I will link everything, and thank you so much for spending time with us today.

Thank you so much. This conversation has been a lot of fun, and you've been an awesome host. So, thank you.

Appreciate that.

Another great conversation. Thank you for giving the valuable gift of your time and listening to The Fire Inside Her podcast. Speaking of value, one of the most common potholes we fall into on the journey to authenticity is not recognizing our value. So, I created a workbook. It's all about value. Head on over to thefireinsideher.com/value to get your free workbook that will help you remember your value. Until next time, my friend.