He thought the call was spam. Hours later, he was standing in a hospital NICU meeting a two-pound baby fighting for his life.

Adoption, fatherhood, healing, and the power of intentional love are at the heart of this emotional episode of Call Me Friend.

Host Daryn Kagan connects with content creator, writer, and single father Darren Graham to explore a life-changing story about foster care, adoption, and the unexpected journey to becoming a parent.

Darren never planned to become a father overnight. After applying years earlier to become a foster parent, he received a phone call that would change everything. Within hours he was standing in a hospital NICU meeting a two-day-old premature baby fighting for his life.

That baby became Lucas “Ducky” Gray.

In this powerful conversation, Darren shares how growing up without a father shaped his desire to parent differently, why intentional community matters, and how becoming a father helped heal parts of his own childhood.

This episode is about more than adoption. It is about love, resilience, chosen family, and the moments that completely transform the direction of our lives.

In This Episode You Will Learn

✅ How a single phone call led to Darren Graham becoming a father within hours

✅ What the foster care and adoption journey looked like behind the scenes

✅ Why Darren believes community and intentional love can change lives

✅ How fatherhood helped heal parts of his own childhood

✅ The surprising lessons Darren learned about love, identity, and purpose

Powered by Ms Lou’s Cabin https://www.airbnb.com/h/mslouscabin

Timestamps

00:00 A Life-Changing Phone Call, Fostering & Fatherhood

02:10 How the Instagram algorithm introduced Daryn to Darren

07:07 Building an intentional online community

11:19 Darren’s childhood and moving from the Caribbean to Brooklyn

15:01 From education to writing, fashion, and social media

19:50 Meeting “Ducky” and becoming a father

22:24 The foster care call that led to adoption

27:04 The moment Darren held Ducky for the first time

30:20 The judge who changed the course of the adoption case

33:02 Why Darren knew he had to adopt Ducky

36:17 How fatherhood healed Darren’s past

38:02 The biggest surprises about becoming a dad

39:01 The hardest part of parenting

40:27 Parenting, love, and learning through a child’s eyes

Key Takeaways

🔹 Sometimes life changes in a single phone call.

Darren went from living a normal day to meeting his future son within hours.

🔹 Adoption is a two-way transformation.

Both parent and child shape each other’s healing and growth.

🔹 Intentional community matters.

Darren built his online platform to inspire people to keep going through life’s hardest moments.

🔹 Parenthood reveals who we truly are.

Becoming a father helped Darren understand love in a deeper way than he ever expected.

Guest Bio

Darren Graham is a writer, editor, content creator, and speaker known for his intentional and uplifting social media presence. Originally from St. Vincent in the Caribbean, Darren moved to Brooklyn as a child and spent over a decade working in education supporting children and families.

Today he works in media and fashion publishing while building a global online community focused on healing, resilience, and authentic connection.

Darren is also the proud father of Lucas “Ducky” Gray, whose adoption story has inspired thousands of people around the world.

Instagram

TikTok

Threads

Substack

Youtube

Resources

1. Powered by Ms Lou’s Cabin- https://www.airbnb.com/h/mslouscabin
2. Sign up for our newsletter: https://darynkagan.substack.com/
3. Hope Possible: A Network News Anchor's Thoughts On Losing Her Job, Finding Love, A New Career, and My Dog, Always My Dog https://amzn.to/4az2X5f

adoption story, single dad adoption, foster care adoption, fatherhood journey, parenting podcast, intentional living, adoption journey, parenting inspiration, healing through parenthood, Call Me Friend podcast

 I called them on June 2nd and they were like okay in the next couple of hours after you clock out of work you need to meet us at New York Presbyterian Hospital it has to happen today again I hadn't known any of this social worker sat me in a room and then gave me the information they were like so this is a little boy

but Ducky wasn't in acute he was born at two pounds. A very big, chunky part of me. Mm-hmm. Received my healing when I became a dad, I think, or me. My forever intention is to be the father that we both deserve. I think for me, just not growing up with an actual father figure pushed me even more to make a difference.

And I think that's why I just never stopped. I could not say no. I could not just watch that beautiful little face from the hospital who's fought so much, so hard.

Mm-hmm.

At the beginning of his life.

Well, hi there friend. It's Darren. Welcome to Call Me Friend, powered by Miss Lu Cabin, an Airbnb property on remote section of the Georgia Coast.

This is the podcast where I call a friend and you get one heck of an incredible story. This week, things are gonna work a little bit different differently because I actually am going to learn the story right. Along with you. The thing, the twist, the hook that we're talking about this week. Maybe you are at a place in your life where you don't like the way your story ended.

I like the saying that says, if you don't like the way the story ends, then maybe it's not the end of the story. Also, another one by the late Wayne Dyer, A really short phrase that inspired me a long time ago, create what you seek. That one really kind of got to me. If, for instance, if you are, if you are seeking inspiration, then go out there and be inspiring.

If you're looking for love, then be loving. Put love in the world, and I get the feeling that this week's call, this week's guest is doing just that. Now in my own life I was looking, what I was looking to create was more opportunity with friends. So what did I do? I created a podcast all around Friendship.

This is a podcast where I get to call old friends, and in the case this week, I get to call a new friend, a very new friend. I cannot begin to tell you, I have no idea why did the Instagram algorithm put me together and played matchmaker with this new friend, except maybe we share a first name. His name is Darren.

Darren Graham. What I have found in following his Instagram account is something so intentional, so loving, so inspiring, so absolutely wonderful. I have no doubt I'm gonna make this promise to you right now. Not only do I love him, but I think you are going to love him by the time this call is over. I'm in love with him.

I'm in love with his young son, and yes, my husband is totally okay with all of that. So. Now that it's time for you to fall in love with the other Darren as well, let's call Darren Graham.

This episode of Call Me Friend is brought to you by Miss Lu's Cabin, an Airbnb property on remote section of the Georgia Coast. Do you ever go to a, a beautiful resort area and you long to know what it looked like before they paved paradise and put up a parking lot? Well, now you have your chance. Miss Lu's cabin sits on seven private acres on a tidal saltwater marsh about 50 minutes south of Savannah, Georgia.

It is a place so quiet you don't even hear road noise. Instead, what you will hear pink spoonbills, wild dolphins feeding off your private dock. The breeze whistling through the Spanish moss that hangs from the countless oak trees all over the property. The porch overlooking the marsh is the perfect place to hang with family.

Read a zillion books, catch the sunrise all while you stay in a restored log cabin that has all the comforts and amenities of a beautiful home. Miss Lou's cabin, check out the link in the show notes, or simply Google Miss Lou's cabin and you'll find this piece of paradise. Well, hello? Hello? Hello? Hello.

Hi.

I need to say I've had an extensive news career. I've been doing this podcast for a year. I've gotten to do a lot of things. One thing I've never, ever, ever been able to do before this moment is say, hi, Darren.

Hi Darren.

It is very rare for me to run into another Darren, but a Darren of a different gender. It's like, hi. I love that your name is Darren. I think it's so beautiful.

Thank you. Well, mom did it. I didn't. My mom was decades ahead of the trend of giving the girls unusual names. So I'm Darren. I have a sister named Callan, and then we have a brother named Mark.

So I, I don't know what she, how she missed the boat on that because it doesn't fit the whole theme. But, um, do you have any other girl, Darren's, have you ever met another girl? Darren,

you are my first in 38 years of living. You are my goodness. First. And hopefully not my last. Now I'm very like, curious. I'm, I'm gonna start searching.

The hunt is on for the girl, Darren, the hunt

is on.

Um, I only know really, I have one girl, Darren in my life, and this was a complete shock, but, uh, one of my college roommates who went through a huge long fertility journey at the end of it, had a baby girl and named her Darren. So there's a little Darren, well, she's not so little, she's in college now, but, um, we called, so we had to figure out how to like differentiate.

So we called her baby Darren, but then when she was four and you're kind of getting into the stage with your son, she was like, I'm not a baby. Yeah. So

yeah,

we decided BD Standard for Book Standard stood for Beloved Darren. Beloved Darren. Oh, it's beautiful. So she's, she's still bd.

Love

that. There she is.

There she is. Okay. I know you say on your account there's a very specific post where you say. What other people think of you is none of your business.

Correct.

But, but so humor me for a second. 'cause I need to tell you what I think of you. Okay. Just for a second and just take it in. Okay. Okay. I don't know what the Instagram algorithm gods were doing where they had me find you if it was just our name or what it was.

But I find you and your account to be, if I had to pick one word, it is intentional. Mm. You've been so intentional about this world that you've created in your account. That draws me in and I know a lot of other people as well. There's a saying, a couple sayings that I've heard, that if you don't like the end of your story, then maybe it's, if you don't like how the story ends, then maybe it's not the end of your story.

And, and to create what you seek and what you have created. With love and with strength, and with deciding who you are and the things that you love and the people that you love, and the attitude and the inspiring thoughts that you share, Darren, I am telling you, you are a true gift and I would just like you to receive that.

I receive it, I receive it. It took, it took a very long time for me. Mm-hmm. To even understand what flowers meant. Um mm-hmm. And for me to also understand that I've been giving everyone flowers for so many years and have just not been planting the soil for my own. And when I do hear people, it's still very, for me, I don't feel like social media has brought me a lot of beautiful opportunities.

And I always said, I did not do it for numbers. I don't do it for numbers, I do it for community. Mm-hmm. Because I just feel like in this. The intentionality behind it for me is we live in such a crazy Yes. Crazy, crazy, insane, selfish, dark, very narc world. And if I can just make one person understand that they can go through the emotions, but they cannot stop, then I've done my job.

And with me, that was one of the first things that I said on social media that went viral. Mm-hmm. Um, I remember just looking into the screen and being like, get up. Mm-hmm. Get up now. You don't know what tomorrow is. Tomorrow is a figment of our imagination. Yeah. You don't know what the next second is.

It's a figment of our imagination. Get up, do it right now. You do not get to quit. You get to go three the emotions. Mm-hmm. And that went. That I went, I, that was my first video on TikTok. I put it up, I went to sleep. I woke up, it was at 10 million, and then I just had this influx of like 20,000 people in less than 24 hours.

I was like, 'cause my, then my sisters were sending me so many messages. I was like, what is happening? Because I hadn't opened up the app. And then I was like, ah, okay.

Mm-hmm.

I didn't get most talkative in high school, in the yearbook for nothing, because I always,

this is where it was leading. This is smoke coming up here.

This is,

this is exactly, I was like, oh, okay. And then I just started building a little community that became very big. And yeah, here we

are. And here we are.

Yeah.

I have a feeling, again, going back to this idea of like, I don't know how I found you. Um, but our communities probably don't. Over overlap that much.

Mm-hmm. And I wanted my people to know you, and that's why I invited you on not for numbers, um, like when you meet somebody. And I love it when my people meet my people and I was thinking, my people need to meet this people.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, that's why I'm, I'm so glad you're here. The other thing that strikes me about what I don't know about you is as wonderful as I, the, the wonderful feeling I get of where you are today.

It is not where you were. Right. I don't know where you came from, but I have a feeling that there has been a journey that things that you share are the things that you've learned. Not it, you didn't come out of the womb this way that there has been a, a, a journey to get here.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, I'm from the Caribbean.

Let's start there. Um mm-hmm. I'm from St. Vincent.

Mm-hmm.

I'm the only boy of three beautiful little nuggets that we were. I'm the middle child.

Oh, me too.

That's, that's the connection. See, there's a connection. That's

what, it's

middle Darren, middle children. I'm the middle child to two bossy si sisters. Um, but no, beautiful.

I was raised in a community and I think when we moved to here I was struggling a lot. Um

mm-hmm. How old were you when you moved?

I moved here at 10. Oh, that's hard. 28 years ago. Very hard. Yeah. I had already had my experiences happening. I've already had a small little circle. I've never had big, uh, friend circle, still don't.

But I had mm-hmm. My intentional little circle of, I love books, so like we would breed, we would play marbles, we would climb trees, we would go to the beach, just our little thing. It was only three of us, but we would just like thick as thieves. And then my mom was just like, Hey, you have to say goodbye.

And I was like, mm-hmm. Huh. We came to visit. But always went back because my mom wanted us to go to school there, but my mom lived here. Mm. So we stayed with grandma and would travel back and forth from the US go into Bardos. But she was like, you, yeah. You're gonna be moving to the US full-time. And I think for me, that was the most traumatic time I've had in my life.

Yeah. Still to this day. And because now this consistency that I knew just became inconsistent. I also did not know my mom that well emotionally. I was already connected. Mm-hmm. Emotionally to my grandmother. So that was like the maternal instinct. But now I have to learn you because you left when we were four.

So there was a six, six year gap. I have to learn you, I have to learn this bigger world. I'm from an island of 90,000 people, so it's very tiny.

To new to New York City.

To New York City, which can house maybe a hundred of my, my island. And you bring me to Brooklyn, New York. So we moved here and I just remember being dropped in Clinton Hill, Brooklyn, downtown Brooklyn, and just in this foreign place and just never feeling like I fit in.

And I, that would happen all the way up until 16. And I found real friends who I still am friends with today, and we had our own little community. Mm-hmm. We were all queer into art, very big into the books, very just going to university. We all had our careers, we were just, it was just us. So I went through that change and I always said to myself, you know, the older I get, I wanna just keep building this community because it just, it needs to be a part of my healing.

I'm still healing that little boy that was in me. Mm-hmm. That was just taken from the space, went through such a traumatic moment. Um, I don't think the adults understand trauma. Comes in different forms. So that was my bit of trauma. Um, and yeah, that's why I pushed to do what I, what I did. I eventually worked in education and with our teen years as a, a advocate for a little while, and then a psychologist.

Then, um, what else did I develop? The pieces are coming. All the pieces are coming together. See?

Okay, okay, I got it.

I did 13 years in elementary, um, school here in downtown Brooklyn in my community again. Mm-hmm. Intentionality with the community word. Yes.

So how do you go from that? Again, you didn't grow up and say, oh, I'm gonna be, I don't know.

I don't think it influencer that's a little trite, but like, to even grow is, I mean, is this your full-time? Is the social media your full-time

business? So it is one of, of my fulltime.

Okay.

So I'm also an editor at who, what, where, so I write mm-hmm. Which ties into like my, my love for literature, um, fashion paid a lot of my way through college and mm-hmm.

That's the intertwining of like my editing. I pivoted from education because I just felt like the change was never gonna happen with me. Um mm-hmm. I think teachers or that system, or that system mm-hmm. I think teachers, administrators, contractors that's in that space, whoever is working in education, however, um, their kind of contributing to that space are so underpaid and underappreciated.

Yeah. And I felt that way my entire 13 year career and the art lover in me, the, the writer in me, the literature in me, I was just like, okay, I don't wanna be here any longer, but I don't wanna leave the community. I,

so how do

you answer that? I, yeah. Right. So how can I still be a part of it without fully leaving, because it's not my intention to leave.

I didn't wanna leave the kids. I love children. Mm-hmm. I love, I believe that they just need as many protectors and supporters that they can have, because again, we're in such a gruesome place, and I just tapped back into my old Rolodex, if you want to call it, and was like, Hey guys,

okay, now you're going into my era with a Rolodex.

I'm like, Hey, I, I am trying to make this pivot. I love fashion, but I don't wanna get back on a runway. I don't wanna be in front of a camera. In that retrospect, I wanna write, I love to write, but I don't wanna be some boring news writer in a and stuck in the office. If I'm gonna do news, I want to be in front of the screen, or go back and do some journalism and do it in a different way.

Because I know how easy it is for a writer to just get stuck in the back closet and be like, Hey, yeah, just write a few of these articles and we'll give you whatever we can. This is the salary.

Mm-hmm.

So I remember talking to a girlfriend that wrote for New York Times, ran their fashion and accessories column, and I started there for a few months and applied at who, what, where, became a contributing writer.

Um, and then now I'm an editor and resident there as of last year. But there's still this content creating thing that keeps happening because again, don't forget. Mm-hmm. I kept talking online and it kept getting bigger and wider and the audience is growing and they want me to do all these different types of conversations.

Who's they? Um, who's community.

Okay. Like people will request say, oh, do more of

or talk more more about that. We want you to come live. We want you to come on the panel. Yeah. We wanna see you on this TV show. Interview. And I was like, ah,

okay.

This podcast. This podcast. Exactly. It was like, okay. I also enjoy having conversation.

'cause I think that's a part of building a community. You need to put the phones down and have real conversations. Very much value. And I remember telling my friend, I was like, Hey, I think I'm gonna make this like a part-time thing. And I bought a tripod, which I didn't have before. I would just prop my phone up in random spaces.

Mm-hmm.

And once I bought the tripod, I was like, there's no turning back. Now you have to The intentional

Yes.

What's going on, going on? That was an

intentional purchase with a trip

on. Exactly.

Yeah.

And I just said, you know, I'm never going to add anything sad, negative, degrading, unhappy.

Mm-hmm.

Into anything that I create.

So I have to just

Oh, but you do be good. I don't wanna call it tough love, but you do like,

yeah, yeah.

Call it like, it is, you're not,

yes.

It's not just like, ooh, kitties and rainbows. Like,

no,

we're gonna have a little conversation.

This is, I'm the friend.

Yes.

I'm the honest, like my, my actual friends call me.

You're the really rare, blunt, honest friend. Like you're very, very honest and transparent. That's how I love, I love hard and if I love you hard, I have to be, you have to create space for me to love you in an honest way. So I was like, if we're gonna do this as a, a community, you have to be ready for the real me.

I cannot be fake. If you see me online is what you get in person. I have to just be me. And it became my part-time thing. So now I have one full-time, one part-time. Mm-hmm. That becomes, became this beautiful thing. So here we are.

Here we are. Yeah. Well let's talk about your really big full-time, full-time thing and That'ss becoming a dad.

Yeah.

Your ducky. My ducky, our ducky,

Howard

Ducky. Um, if Ducky was ever missing, there would be about a million suspects, because don't get your feelings hurt on this, but like, people love you, but they love your son. I mean.

But that's how I know you love me. It's when you love my son.

Oh my goodness. You love me.

Oh my goodness. That's it. Okay. What is the, what is the, um, the journey to fatherhood?

Oh my God.

To parenthood. It's another thing we share. I'm an adoptive mother, but I wanna hear how you and Ducky come to find each other.

I was just like, Hey, I think I'm going to foster. It wasn't my intention to adopt.

A toe dip.

Yeah, exactly right. I said, you know, I have space. I'm in a two bedroom. I

mm-hmm.

Again, working in education on the level that I worked on, I worked alongside a CSA lot. So I knew the relationships, I knew what was, was needed was just somewhere for them to be safe and love.

And I said, you know what, if I can give space a home to 1, 2, 2 beautiful kids, three, we can make an L-shaped bunk bed situation, maybe four. I know. And I spoke to my mom. My mom was like, I'm on board. Let's do it. You know, I just know how you are. I know you have a lot of love to give. Mm-hmm. And you're not gonna stop until you give love.

So I said, mommy, I'm gonna do it. Let's see if they'll give me a single guy, one or two. Or if they give me four, I'll be very happy. But

Okay, bring it, bring it, bring it, bring it.

We, I applied, um mm-hmm. The pandemic happened. Right, because I, late of 20 18, 20 19 pandemic happened. Okay. So I thought, okay, that was it.

I got a call, ducky was born on May 30th. Okay. On June 1st, I got a call from a CS. It was just like,

they had your number, they still had

your number. They're like, Hey. And they called on my personal phone. So usually with cases at work, they would call mm-hmm. On either the work cell phone that they provided or your office phone.

Right. But this number They kept calling and they called several times. And I picked up the phone and I was like, hi. How may I help you? Because this is a spam call. Want, I don't want

life

insurance. I'm at, what do you want? I'm at work. Exactly.

Yeah.

Hey, I'm at work. And they were like, hi, this is the administration of child services.

And I was like, yeah, but you're calling my personal cell phone and I'm giving this lady such a hard time. I was like, call my my work phone. This is what? Mm-hmm. And she's like, sir, I'm sorry. I don't have your work number. This is not probably for what you're thinking. And I was like, what do you want?

yes,

yes, yes.

You're not a telemarketer. Okay.

You're Hello. Not a telemarketer. You really, you're really looking for me.

How may I help you? Yes. Come on in. Have some water.

Sit down.

Yeah, sit down. Let me get you some water. And we were talking and she was like, Hey, we have a little baby, a little person. Um, we can't tell you the gender.

Okay.

Um, they need a space, you know, asap you have 24 hours to make a decision

and a decision for Foster, not for.

So the decision was initially for Foster. That's what I thought.

Okay.

So I said, okay, I will call you back in 24 hours and I just need to speak to my mom and make sure that we have what we need.

Mm-hmm.

Did that. My mom was just like, you know, I can't give you the answer. You need to, you need to kneel down.

I just know who you are, but no pressure. She said, I love you, and go make your decision. And I did. I called them back. Yeah. So I called them back and I called them on June 2nd, and they were like, okay, in the next couple of hours after you clock out of work, you need to meet us at New York Presbyterian Hospital.

It has to happen today.

Did you have a thing? Did you have a diaper? Did you have a onesie

No, I had nothing. You had nothing?

Had nothing,

nothing. It was not childproof, nothing. I was just like, wait, wait, hold on. She was like, you've already given me verbal consent. You said Yes. This is a serious case. So I went to my boss.

Office.

Oh, you

still don't

know if it's a boy or girl. Right. You just know

it's a baby. A newborn. Just know a newborn. You don't. Yeah, you don't know. It's a newborn. I hadn't known how young he was either at that time.

Oh, so you don't know.

He's a newborn. Becausecause. They can't give you, they're not allowed to give you information on the child over the phone because if it's, it's a conflict of interest because then you can Okay.

Be choosy and be like, oh, it's a girl. Oh, sorry, I don't want it. It's a boy. I don't want

it. Ah.

You know, like the Uber

driver saying, I don't wanna

drive to neighborhood. Exactly. Exactly. So anyways, had a conversation with my boss and she was just like, you need to go now. You need to go. Go to the hospital.

And then again, I hadn't known any of this. Social workers sat me in a room and then gave me the information. They were like, so. This is a little boy. He was born of two pounds. Do you have any experience with premature kids?

Anything?

And I did

fill in the blank.

I did. Oh, you do? Yeah. Because of your education background.

'cause of my job was 13 years. I did.

Okay.

So I said yes. I have a lot of experience. I am currently in this time. I had already been there in that position for nine years in that mm-hmm. Specific position. I said, I do have experience. This is what I do. I explained, they were like, it's like God made and have like, this is a match.

Would you like to go and see him? And I was like, yeah. I went to go see him. They put me in this suit, you know, you have to scrubs and you wash your hands. And because he was so, he was in like the micro, uh, preemie. Mm-hmm. And I get there and the, the nurse is like, do you want, do you wanna hold him? And I was like.

Um, no. Yes. Am I supposed to say yes?

I mean, you know, the minute you see this child, the minute you hold him, it is over.

This is it,

it is done. There is,

I put, I put him on my chest and he opened his eyes for the first time. They were like, he hasn't opened his eyes in two days. He's two days old. I was like, how old is he?

I'm now finding out that he's two.

Mm-hmm.

I was like, his birthday was May 30th. She was like, yeah, he's two days old. I was like, he hadn't opened his eyes. She was like, no. And then I have a picture in my phone of him smiling that when I, when he wrapped his hands around my finger, his mm-hmm. Hands were so small, like his hand was just like, at the tip of my finger and he would not let go.

And then they, they were like, do you wanna feed him? Usually don't let anyone feed them, but I can show you how to feed them. So they pulled the, the curtain around just to give him skin to skin. And that's how it began. We started, um, fighting with the court system for, for them to allow me to do skin to skin because you're not supposed to send your, you just had, I had a provisional, um, fostering in that moment and because we still had to go through all of the um, right steps to actually have mm-hmm.

All the solidified documents. But because his case was so dire and so sensitive

mm-hmm.

They needed to make sure that everything was like streamlined and we fought for me to get, and

so the, the bio parents were not the issue. They were willing to give up, but it was the system.

No. So it's not that they were willing to give up.

They,

yeah.

Yeah.

So mom, mom abandoned him in, in, okay. The hospital pulled the leads out. When they weren't paying attention, she ran out the hospital and left

and she went, okay.

Yeah. So because of that, he had no biological family. Mm-hmm. So they needed to make sure that he was taken care of asap.

Yeah.

And.

Once the judge asked to meet with me and they were like, well, we don't let the clients meet with the judge so soon. And he was like, I would like to meet with the person that said yes to this child, even after seeing them, I need to meet them now. Mm-hmm. And it was a very old judge who passed away three months after he got my case three months after.

But if it was not for him, my case would not even be a thing. And he moved everything from provisional to permanent. He looked at me and he was like, you promised me. And I felt like no one else knew that he was sick, but he, but just thinking back at the conversation and how that went. Mm-hmm. I was just like, he had to have known that he didn't have that much time.

'cause he looked at me and he was like, you promised me that you take care of this child even in your next lifetime. You promise me? And I was like, I promise I'm

dying over here.

Yeah. And I remember that sticking with me every day on my bomb adoption ceremony video. I mentioned the judge and spoke exactly what he said.

How

long was

he there?

Two months.

And

for two months. Two months. Yeah. He came home in July. The end of July.

Um, and I will go every day. Mm-hmm. Every single, every single day. I never missed a day. Sometimes I fell asleep in the chair.

Mm-hmm.

They would wake me up and be like, Hey, it's time for you to go home and Oh no. I'm like, I'm not leaving my kid here.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then one of the nurse joked at that time, 'cause we still hadn't done the adoption yet, we still have steps.

And she's like. You are already calling him your kid. That's so cute. I was just like, oh, I am. And then we just went through the whole process of mm-hmm. The TPR termination of credal rights. Mm-hmm. Et cetera, et cetera. Mm-hmm. And that would take another year. So Ducky Yeah. Was, so we moved from fostering within, like, I wanna say we moved from, 'cause then I had a, what is it called?

Like a temporary, um, adoption

mm-hmm.

Title. I had this letter that I had to travel around. Like Guardian or whatever. Yes, exactly. Um, but we moved from Foster and immediately like three and a half, four months. And they were just like, we need to have a meeting with you. And I got on the meeting and everyone was on the meeting.

I was like, I was like, please don't gimme any bad news. And they were like, no, we just wanna ask you a question on oat. And I was like, okay. And then they asked me, do you think you would wanna adopt him? And I was like.

Uh, yeah.

Yeah.

Why are we even having

this conversation? Everyone was like crying. They were like, are you sure?

It's like, I was like, yeah. Mm-hmm. I was like, I don't, I know that fo what? I know the idea of fostering, because again, I worked in it, I understand it. Mm-hmm. I've dealt with this for years.

Mm-hmm.

But my heart would've been shattered.

Yeah.

I don't know how You have to be a special person to just build that much love and relationship.

Yeah. And then be like, okay, there you go. I, yeah. No different, different

journey.

Not your journey. Journey, yeah. Different journey.

Yeah. Whatever.

And then someone else not to judge. Then he was adopted two days before his birth, second birthday. So yeah. And that was it.

Very good. And then Ducky is a nickname.

Yes. His, that is Luc come from Lucas Gray, but his nickname I was rubber ducky. I just gave him ducky. That's my nickname. Duck. Yeah. So I passed my nickname onto him. Ah, yeah.

What a, what a great gift. And then the two of you are just such,

thank you.

A great pair. And you're so, like I said, intentional with him.

I feel, and again, this is me filling in, maybe I'm using you to tell my own story, but it feels like you are creating the parenthood that maybe you wish you could have had, that you could dwell in pain, but instead the biggest healing is to get to do it the way you wanna do it, the way you think it should be done.

Yes. A part of me, a very big, chunky part of me,

mm-hmm.

Received my healing when I became a dad. I think for me, my forever intention is to be the father that we both deserve. I think for me, just not growing up with an actual father figure pushed me even more to make a difference. And I think that's why I just never stopped.

I could not say no. I could not just watch that beautiful little face from the hospital who's fought so much, so hard.

Mm-hmm.

At the beginning of his life to then just, you know, giving that oath and say, oh no, I would like to give him away. Where would he have gone? Yeah. And I think just, that's what my mom meant.

I know what kind of love you give. I know, know your heart and you won't be able to speak. I just fast forward now, he's gonna be four. I would've been miserable. Every day. Like, I wonder what he's doing. Yeah. Where is he? What's happening? Oh my God, I hope they're giving him the bath the right way. Like, did they cut his nails?

Did they, you know, are they feeding him?

Yeah.

And I, even now I think that way. So I feel like everything that I've gone through just prepared me for this moment. You know? Like I didn't wanna be in education. That wasn't my first love. My first love was literature and fashion.

Mm-hmm.

And it's just so beautiful to see how my God just kind of pivoted.

Yeah. He put me for 13 years in a position that I had no intention of loving in that moment, but he knew my heart, loved kids. I got to work with them. Yeah. I got to nourish them, support, help. I had to leave that community now because I have my own kid. But now I volunteer there with my kid, so I take him to all the events that's happening.

Yeah. I'm still connected to the school. I received so much knowledge on how to advocate for him and how to push him through the education system and how to support him with anything that comes up. Yeah. I know how to have a conversation with him, how to speak to him, how to listen to him, um, how to listen to my own self.

And then in turn, he healed what was missing and what was hurting. Yeah. And what was sad inside of me. So now it's just like, every day we wake up, we're just so happy.

Yeah.

We're

just so happy. I'm sitting here. I'm a mess. I'm like wiping people. Most people listen to this podcast, not on video, but just know I'm wiping my tears away.

Um, Aw. Just because it just, it just struck something, um, in me so deep. Um, you said something, you said two things. One, um, I think could be interpreted almost as like an adoption trope, which I don't think you meant, but I just wanna call it out and that. Because with my kids, I think people do it too, where they go, oh, they're so lucky to have you.

He's so lucky to have you. And it's been my experience and that that is true, but it's just as lucky the other way. It's not like where some saviors ha who have swooped in and taken these kids. It's not a one way street. He, um, whatever you have done or whatever you are going to do for ducky, it, it equals or pales in comparison for what he is doing for you.

Exactly.

Um, they are our heroes as much as we are their heroes. Yeah. And I think people who haven't had that experience don't quite get that, I think.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, if it wasn't for him, I think I would still be in such a sad, hurtful space in my heart. Yeah. So of course.

Yeah, because you said, I don't, like, where would he have gone?

Um, what would he have done? The same thing. What, where would you have gone? Like then you went on to describe how, what a mess you would be if he was out there in the world without you, if you weren't with him. So you both, it was the journey that you both were on to, um, meet each other

together.

What do you think has been the biggest surprise about fatherhood for you?

You knew you wanted it and now you got it.

The biggest surprise

mm-hmm.

Of the biggest, honestly, the biggest surprise is just learning all the things that I thought I knew about myself. Just relearning them in a different lens, right? Through a different lens. Um, I thought I knew myself. Mm-hmm. I didn't, um, I thought I knew what fun was.

I thought I knew what love really felt like, but that was just me from giving love. I didn't know. How to receive it. So that was like the biggest surprise, like receiving such honest and innocent love. I was, you know, it's just, it's a different, different thing. So that's the biggest surprise to me.

I guess that would also be the biggest delight.

Delight. The biggest joy. Mm-hmm. It's really a gift. It's really, really a gift. It's a beautiful gift.

And what about the hardest part?

The hardest part?

Mm-hmm.

Is dropping him off to school every day. Still.

It really is. I don't wanna, oh my gosh, I'm just like standing at the front because now you know, he's at that age now. It's no longer daycare. He is in elementary school now.

Mm-hmm.

In three K. And just when he turns and waves, I'm just like, oh, do you wanna go back home?

Can wait. Let's just go cuddle. Yeah,

let's go cuddle.

I think for me, um, no, but. Some of the hardest parts. Um, like just kind of like moving from selfish to selfless. Um, just like the, the sleep. Something as easy as the simplest sleep that we did not appreciate before.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

I think that was like my first, like, I wanna call it hurdle. That was my first hurdle to jump and kind of like learn this new routine.

Um, but honestly I've had such a beautiful community. We, we both have. Yeah. And things just felt normal Yeah. With small little new ways of learning things. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Of how to just kind of like both learn each other and, and be of support to each other. Um, it hasn't been difficult. It just has been very, I

understand

like learning something new.

It's been educational in a way.

Yeah. Very good. Yeah. Well, one of the things that's so fun about watching you, I put this is part of your intention and then watching him is, as you've said, how much you love fashion. Mm-hmm. And you do, you don't call 'em fit checks, but you say, let's talk about what we're wearing, and then you go down what you're wearing, and then Ducky gets to say what he's wearing.

And this was actually the part of this get together with you and me that I was the most nervous for because I'm like, oh gosh, I'm gonna ask Darren what he's wearing, and then he's gonna ask me what I'm wearing. And I was sweating it out because I live in this place. We live in a very remote place. I am more likely to run into a raccoon and armadillo or a dolphin than I am a human being.

And at this remote marsh, if you like, if your top matches your bottom, if you have more than three stains on your t-shirt from Old Navy, you're overdressed. So I'm like going through, I'm going through, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do until I found one sharp white shirt. Wait, tell us, what are you wear?

So that's me today. And I am dressed from the waist up. So, I mean, I do have clothes on the waist down, but just for camera, waist stuff,

can I give, can Exactly. Yeah,

exactly.

So what do you

got?

I actually,

what do you got?

I found, so my assistant was cleaning my closet last week and she was like, wait, there's a bunch of stuff back here with tags on them on a shelf.

I was like, there is. I was like, huh, there is, huh? And she's like, yeah, there's like nine little fits back here. Do you want me to bring them forward? So she did. And this is one of this little,

so

it's new, it's a match in short set. It is new. And this is my first they wear it and I popped the tag just for you, Darren.

Very

good. Darren.

I love it. So who

is it? This is from, uh, I hope I'm saying it right, panga. Panga. P-A-N-G-A-I-A. It's a little,

I mean,

linen set. Um, it's a short set and it's supposed to be like a three quarter sleeve.

Mm-hmm.

Very, very comfy. So. And then I have on like some Mooney bed slippers or house shoes.

Oh

wait, slippers. Wait, wait.

House shoes. We have on house shoes.

I got house shoes. Same. Okay. Well

actually same color. Good, good.

The most important thing, I call them slippers. My husband calls 'em house shoes. What do you call? Which? What are what? Team call. Call '

em slippers. But everyone always

very house

shoes.

I'm like, they're slippers.

Team slippers. Darren.

Exactly.

Slip them slippers on. I love it. Okay. Oh few. Okay. Now I can like just relax 'cause I got through the part I was the most nervous about with your approval. So that's very, very good. You're

good, you're comfortable.

As long as you comfort. Very good. So we have a segment here on the podcast that's called Asking for a Friend.

And what I usually do is somebody either writes in or calls in, like kinda like, you know, asking for advice and then I discuss with a friend what they think that person should do. And I could have done that today. But I decided to do it a little differently because Okay. Actually your account is asking for a friend.

You are constantly talking to that friend and giving good advice. So I've pulled a couple of your posts, a couple of your videos. Oh yes. And so I wanna play like one and then talk about it.

Okay.

And then play the other one for our friends. Let's do it because I'm intro introducing you. Okay. So Abe, our fabulous producer, engineer, is gonna roll one.

Yeah. So I pray that you forgive the version of yourself. Mm. That's settled for anything that violated your boundaries. I pray that you heal from that. Mm. Because look in the mirror, babe. Look in the mirror. Look at the bad. You've become. Become, I'm fucking proud of you. Mm. Big up yourself. You're bad.

You're bad. Yeah.

That one spoke to me, but I wanna know the backstory. Like, so where did that come from? What do you, what else do you wanna say about that to our friend God, who's listening?

I, that video. Okay. First and foremost,

yes. I,

I get so cringed listening to my own voice, but please hurdle that I am jumping. It is

Okay.

Done. It is gonna be blunt. Blunt with you. I'm gonna be blunt with you because we only say it like it is. Right? So 10,000 years in broadcasting, one of your best attributes is your voice. Your voice okay. Is so soothing. Um, no, your voice is excellent. It is good.

Oh, thanks. I, every time I hear my voice I'm like, oh, I have to listen

to

me.

Nope.

Um, so

nope, nope, nope. It's good. It's really good. Don't change a thing.

A lot of the times I go through my dms, I get so many messages, but I just go through them just to see. That's really how I create a lot of my content, who I can give some support to that day. And there was this one young lady saying, Darren, thank you so much.

I don't remember the whole entire thing, but like, thank you so much. I'm going through this really rough relationship because this person I really love so much. We've been together for well over 15, 16 years, but every day I just feel like they violate my boundaries more.

Mm-hmm.

And more and more. And I just remember telling her, forgive yourself.

Yeah. Yeah.

For just give yourself grace. Just forgive yourself for allowing them to violate your boundaries. And once you forgive yourself, then you move forward with being intentional about the boundaries that you set. So I said, I said, and you're beautiful. You're so beautiful. You're a badie. You look good.

You, I know you smell good just by the, the way you look. And you're, and she was just like, I needed that. I actually got dressed today. 'cause she took some hours to respond. Mm-hmm. I got dressed today. I went outside for a walk with my water, my book. Just because of what you said. So I said, uh, I'm gonna put this on there because I know there are many, so many more, um, people that probably need this type of encouragement and support.

And that's where that came from. I also went through a really rough breakup, um, before I'm seeing someone now, but like before this, like it took me years to even step into that space for the same thing because I just felt like that person was intentionally violating the boundaries. Simple things like, Hey, I would love for you to check in more than twice a week.

What's going on? We're both adults, we're both working, we have busy lives. Mm-hmm. But a check-in can simply mean I little message, Hey, thinking about you, what's going on? How was your day? And he would like, okay, cool. Get it never happening. And never happening. So I was just like, that felt good to say in a release.

Um, and it felt great to see that one person. Receiving it. So I was like, I think that every, there's a maybe a thousand more people need to hear this. And, and it did. So that's, I thought that

Exactly, exactly. Well, another part, 'cause I'm much farther down the parenting journey than you are, is when your children start making mistakes or having struggles that you thought that you just got to figure it out so they don't have to do it.

It makes you go back and look at kind of what you did.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, so I can now look at myself in my early adulthood and go like, what, what were you thinking? Like, why did you stand for that? Like, um, and that video spoke to me for, to say, you need to forgive yourself for what happened. Then whatever happened then led you on your journey to figure it out to where you are now.

And we just have to give her some Grace A. Little bit. Um, absolutely. But I can, I can beat her up big time. That younger version Yeah. Of myself. That's

my favorite thing to say. Give yourself grace. We needed to go through that in order to get where we are now. If that was just your journey, sometimes you don't get to always write everything.

You can only write a few things because you're given permission to, 'cause that's written for you to, to even start writing. So you just have to understand that, go through the emotions, like I said earlier, but you cannot beat yourself up. Go through the emotions, but you cannot stop, go through the emotions.

But you have to give yourself grace because then what good are you If you're not a student to yourself, you could be a student to the world, but you need to be a student to yourself first. So give yourself grace to move on to the next thing. 'cause then you'll be stuck on that one thing and unable to move.

I love that. Um, okay. One more asking for a friend. Mm-hmm. I wanna play this other clip.

Yeah. So, because they don't feel like their best or they're not at their a hundred. You shouldn't celebrate being at a hundred. You shouldn't celebrate being your best. Listen, listen. Don't piss me off. Stop suppressing yourself.

Stop suppressing yourself to make them feel better. That's not your job. It's not your job. You've done your work. You've got yourself here from the space that you were once in. Do they know what it took for you to get here? No, they don't. So then show them. Show them. Stop suppressing yourself to make them feel better.

That is not your job. And if they're your friends, if they're your village and they're making you feel like this, it's time for you to reevaluate. Kind of nonsense. You are badie. Be a badie. Time for them to go. They gotta get off at the next stop. Stay clear. The closing doors, please catch across. D my son's obsessed with trains.

Ah, so that's where that little sound effect come from. Um, where, but where did, what inspired that one?

Yeah. You're not, it's not your job to make anyone happy.

Yeah.

It is not, your job is to add to their happiness. So why are you taken away from yourself to give to someone else? Stop forgetting about us. I think that's the adult, the unhealthy adult thing to do.

The ones that think that they're carrying the village. No, that's not how it works. It's called communal work. Right?

Yeah. I think a lot of friends who listen to this, that will resonate with them because I think, especially if it's women, I mean, we are told from the time we're little girls. Mm-hmm. I grew with a brother who was 13 months old or, and was like, don't get taller than him.

Don't get bigger than him. Don't. Mm-hmm. Like, you need to be less than, um, women are constantly given that messaging to be less than in order to be accepted, in order to fit in. And, um, we baddies need to stop that.

Hello? Exactly. That's how I say hello. Hello. And my, and my audience. I'm a feminist first. I always say this, I was raised.

Mm-hmm. Women. My grandmother had 11 kids, eight or nine of them. Nine of them were were girls. And I'm from a very, still am from a very female heavy family of beautiful, successful women. And I think for me, watching them not being recognized, even in their great careers that they have, they're often robbed because it's being given to a, another guy, a man, a male.

A male. A male. So for me, watching my audience be 80% female just feels like, again, you don't need my permission to do anything because I'm not, I'm not in charge of you. I'm not your God, but I'm gonna support you through it. I'm gonna be your biggest cheerleader. I'm gonna always push you. I'm always gonna hold you up and say, Hey, daddy, Uhuh, we're not doing that.

They don't get to tell you that you can't walk. You need to sit, they're not gonna tell you that you need to make them happy. It's not your job. Mm-hmm. Your job is to take care of you. And if you're not taking care of you, you can't take care of them. You can't give support when you can't even give it to yourself.

And in the words of RuPaul, how are you? How are you gonna love someone else if you can't yourself? You know?

And there's a better stage than Ru Paul. Exactly, exactly. That clip also spoke to me because I think one of the most surprising things for me, for having done the work, for having looked for love for so long, for like trying to get the family, I always thought, and maybe this will be a subject of a clip that you can do in the future.

Mm-hmm. But I always thought that everybody who loved me, or I thought loved me would be happy for me to see my dreams come true. And I was shocked to find out that there can be a price with that.

Mm-hmm.

That. When you do the work to leave the crazy, the crazy doesn't, is not very happy about that.

Mm-hmm.

People don't want to see you leave. They wanna pull you back or make you pay for that. And that had a definite element of heartbreak for me. Does that, that's, do you understand what I'm saying?

Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes. That's real. I mean, if someone's not happy with themselves, they don't have space to be happy for you, right?

Mm-hmm. 'cause you're supposed to fill their happiness. So once they see that you take, you took reign on your own happiness, your own life. Mm-hmm. Your piece, your comfort, you made you the priority. That kind of like ruffles their feathers in Yeah. In such a way that now they feel like they need to pull you back down because, uh, uh, where do you think you're going?

You know? Um, and again, I've been through that, so like a lot of the things that I talk about that I've already healed from, but I just feel like there are so many people that can kind of like. Can use some of my experience Yes. You know, to start their own healing.

A couple questions I like to ask every friend who comes on.

Okay. Um, first of all, who is the friend who had an impact on your life or the friend that the world needs to know about?

Oh God, this is so tough. This is one of the questions or responses that I sometimes choke up on. Um, my best friend passed last year on my birthday of 20 years, and it really sucks because, oh man.

Yeah.

Social media was his thing. Mm-hmm. He was really, really big in, in the fashion world, had hundreds of thousands of followers and before I. Got online, he would always say, get online. People wanna hear your voice. 'cause I'm tired of hearing your damn mouth. That's what he would say. He said, you're always right.

Um, and when I started going viral online, he was so happy. And I had no successes

to

you. Yeah, exactly. I had no successes from it as of yet. And right when I started like monetizing and having mm-hmm. And having a reach and, and just being invited into spaces to, to use my voice, my tool, like he would call it, he'd be like, girl, that's your tool and you need to use it because God will take it away from me if you don't appreciate it.

And when I got on, my first big biggest thing was taking over the radio station, which was a dream of mine. Just a silly dream. Mm-hmm. I was like, oh, one day I wanna be like,

no silly dreams.

Darren Howie on, I wanted to be Howie on the radio station and mm-hmm. Caught 97, did a segment on me on Father's Day.

And he was so happy and I just feel like he would be, he's still happy. Mm-hmm. 'cause I feel everywhere I go, but I just feel in physical form. I just wish he was sitting on the other side of this laptop right now just watching me. 'cause he would be that creepy freaking brother that would sit on the other side.

Maybe he sent

me

be like this the whole time. Maybe be

on him in creepy lady form.

Yeah. So that is the friend that I wish the new members to the community

mm-hmm.

Can experience in physical form. Obviously they know him 'cause I post him all the time. But that's the one friend that I wish everyone can kind of know forever.

'cause he, we were like white on rice. We're inseparable and still are. Yeah.

And still are. And still are. And then after all this very deep, deep. Soul bearing conversation. I love to, I love to tie things up. Superficial, totally superficial. What is the thing that you are recommending to a friend? It could be, you know, a beauty product, a social media account, a restaurant, a food, a parenting hack, anything.

So what's the thing?

Can I do two things or

you

can two things. Good laser facials. That is the one thing that I got for the first time this year. Like on my birthday this year, I got a laser facial for the first time ever. I have not seen a glowy skin before that. I mean, I had no idea. First and foremost, it is an investment in yourself and you should always be investing in yourself.

So do not, okay,

so it's not cheap.

It is not cheap, it's not affordable. Okay. And if it's affordable, you shouldn't do it because it's probably not being done.

Don't try as at home

all of with your credit card is that I look to, you know, to book a book This facial, we're all in the same price range, so if it's affordable, stay away from it.

Um, but a laser facial, it is 15 minutes, but they just zap everything.

Everything.

And it's not painful at all. It sounds painful. Okay. That's I painful, but oh my goodness. It just gets facial, everything. So if you have like a blem sort breakout.

Yep.

Once they zap it, it's gone. Like in an hour or two it's like gone.

Skin is beautiful, glowing, et cetera. Okay. The other hack

Yes.

That I wanna give to parent, but new parents.

Mm-hmm.

This is just a little piece of advice. Do with it as you wish. You don't have to follow it. Don't buy your kids toys. They will never play with them in the beginning. They will never play with them.

Mm-hmm.

They want the weirdest little, the box random. The box in the bottle. Yeah. The box.

Yeah.

Don't buy, let me rephrase that. Don't buy them toys until they can choose. Decide. A little bit older, maybe for the first nine to 10 months.

Okay.

Maybe a few little things. My son played with the plastic bottles that I was recycling, would take them to his room and play with them.

I'm like, what are you doing? Don't buy them a bunch of toys. 'cause then they become your problem in the second. You gotta clean them all up. Those are

my two pieces of advice. Those are two fabulous, fabulous pieces of advice. I'm feeling very validated now that I just trusted my creepy stalker, lady desires and reached out and met my fellow Darren.

And, um, yes, I have loved this time. I will say if you, I know you have a huge community, but if you ever need a break, you just send Ducky down to Aunt Darren and Uncle Trent. I'll, you're invited too to come see us on this beautiful Georgia coast. Um, but parents are optional. We like the children, so,

uh, that's what everyone says.

My sister takes him like three weeks in the summer. You're

good then Ducky. Yes.

I'm like, my sister loves to take him just randomly for weeks, upon weeks when he has vacation. I'm like, can I drop him off? She's like,

where's my child?

She's like, no, I'll pick him up. And I'm like, Hey, I, can I come? And she's like, no, you can pick him up the day before.

Okay.

Exactly. I too, I was an aunt before I was a mother, and there's something special about getting to see the kids without the parents. Mm-hmm. Well, you would know that too, as I'm sure you were an uncle. So good. Thank you so much for this time. Thank you. And for you. And I promised my friends at the beginning of this that they were gonna fall in love with you.

And Yes, your account is the real Darren Graham, D-A-R-R-E-N boy. Darren. Yes. Um, and we'll have links to everything in show notes and up on the screen and everything, so, um, even more people can find you. Um, and I'm also looking forward to sharing this with your community just because I know there's so many people who will love the backstory of ducky, who might not have heard that.

Um,

mm-hmm.

We'll, we'll share that in clips as well. So, um, yes,

please. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, much creating space. Thank you for creating space to have me. This was so beautiful, so welcoming and warm. And

I hope it's our nice to meet our first time together. Yes.

Yes.

I hope it's our first daring time, not our last.

Thank you, Darren. Not

our last. You're welcome. Thank you for having me.

Thank you. All right. So did I do it? Did I make my case? Do you love that Darren? As much as I do. And by the way, he's the real Darren Graham on Instagram. I'm sure he is on TikTok too. But, um, like I said, an old person, and I don't really know the TikTok, I'm all about Instagram.

Oh, there was so many great nuggets of what he said. But the main thing that I take from him, and so many of his clips that speak to me as I watch his account is, if you are not good to you, if you are not loving you, if you're not pouring into you, how can you pour into anybody else? It can't just be about pouring into other people.

The old put your mask on first before you give anybody else oxygen. And maybe I'm not even doing Darren Graham justice, but if I just made the case for you to go on Instagram and look up the real Darren Graham, then I've made my case and I feel like I've done my work for today. I really hope you enjoyed him as much as I did and really you wanna check him out?

'cause you've gotta see this little boy ducky is everything so adorable with little glasses and oh, just a dream. So Darren, if you're still watching, thank you so much for coming on with me. My other friend, if you're listening, thank you for spending this time with me. I so appreciate you. I know I've been mentioning every episode about this YouTube thing, but can I tell you, we are so close.

We, I mean by so close, we're like six people away from getting over what YouTube says I need to have for subscribers to monetize. So if you'll just watch this podcast on YouTube and when the little red box comes up in the corner and says subscribe, if you'll just click on that. We're so close. We gotta get there.

I'll tell you more in the next episodes about the challenges I'm facing and um, what it's gonna take to make this podcast go forward. But for now, if you would just do that one little thing, friend, I would so appreciate you. Also would just love to hear from you. You know, there's a lot of ways you can comment underneath.

Wherever you're listening to this podcast, you can find me at Darren Kagan or Call Me Friend podcast on all the socials. Um, let me know what you're thinking, who you wanna see. Come on. Also, if you would like to submit a question or asking for a friend, I would love to hear what you would like me to put forward to my guest.

Thank you for letting me do this and do this with you. And I look forward to the next time we chat soon. Thanks, friend you've been listening to Call Me Friend. Executive producers for the show are Callen Kagan and me, Darren Kagan. The show is produced by Producer, podcast and Journalist Inc. Production by Abe Fallek, Tammy gno and Rob Paw.

Before you go, call me Friend is more than a podcast. It's a community. So head over to call me friend podcast.com to join the conversation. Or you can call or send a text to 9 1 2 7 6 6 0 4 4 6 and you can leave Darren a message there or maybe even share a story of your own, because when life gets real, you don't have to go it alone.

Call a friend. Call this friend.