Building with Aluminum with Chuck Johnson and Ryan Roush
Episode 4710th August 2022 • Construction Disruption • Isaiah Industries
00:00:00 00:38:22

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As the world moves toward being energy-efficiency, consumers are changing their perspective on the materials they prefer in building and construction. Aluminum’s low weight, high strength, and green attributes position it perfectly as a disruptor. Studies have shown increasing demand in the major aluminum markets and corresponding investment.

 

Most of the aluminum used in 2021 was recycled, over three-quarters of it! This fundamental integration with recycling makes aluminum an excellent eco-friendly option that continues to serve major markets well.

 

Joining us today are Chuck Johnson, CEO and president of The Aluminum Association, and Ryan Roush, COO of JW Aluminum, a leading producer of flat-rolled aluminum products. Both bring a different perspective on the aluminum market and have a wealth of information to share.

 

Tune in to learn about aluminum leading the way!

 

Topics discussed in this episode:

  • Chuck’s mission with aluminum
  • What sets The Aluminum Association apart
  • Discussion of a study done on the growth of the aluminum market
  • The sustainability of aluminum in construction
  • Four major trends contributing to the growth of aluminum
  • The energy efficiency of aluminum
  • Future job opportunities in the aluminum industry

 

Connect with Ryan: Email, and with Chuck: Email

 

To learn more about aluminum, go to www.aluminum.org.

 

To hear more Construction Disruption episodes, visit us on Apple Podcasts or YouTube.

 

 Connect with us on FacebookInstagram, or LinkedIn.



This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

Podtrac - https://analytics.podtrac.com/privacy-policy-gdrp
Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Transcripts

Chuck Johnson:

:

Traditionally the end user would choose aluminum because of its durability. That was a deciding factor in making the investment in an aluminum product. Its long life and even beyond durability, consumers are factoring in environmental concerns into their material choices. So they're looking at the overall carbon footprint of the products that they're choosing. And aluminum consistently performs better than other materials.

Todd Miller:

:

Welcome to the Construction Disruption podcast, where we uncover the future of building and remodeling. I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer of specialty metal roofing and other building materials. And today my co-host is our vice president of sales, Seth Heckaman. Behind the scenes, we have Ryan Bell. We really need a bell sound effect for that, don't we? And Ethan Young. So, Seth, how are you doing today?

Seth Heckaman:

:

Doing well, how are you?

Todd Miller:

:

I'm doing well. You know, I was thinking the other day, I've told you a little bit. I have a lot of eccentric relatives in my family. I, I've related to this. So I don't think I've ever told you about this one. I have an eccentric uncle, he's actually in his eighties now, and this guy has been collecting candy canes ever since he was a kid. Hundreds, thousands of candy canes he's collected. And it's really quite interesting to look at them all and how they've changed over the years. It's also really quite cool because they are all in mint condition. Okay, let's keep rolling. Our goal here at Construction Disruption is to provide timely and forward-looking information regarding the construction world. As part of that, we look at new innovations as well as trends and practices, building materials, the labor market, and leadership. Basically, if we pick up on something happening that's impacting construction or is being a disruptor today, or we think it's going to be a disruptor in the future in construction or the remodeling industry, we go out, find ourselves some experts on the subject and bring them to the show to spotlight their insight and knowledge. Today, I'm really excited. We're going to be taking a look at a material that is ever-present in our lives, and that is aluminum. Both inside and outside of our buildings, we all encounter aluminum on a regular basis, probably a lot more frequently than we realize. And today, to talk with us about the bright future of this strong but lightweight metal is Chuck Johnson and we also have Ryan Roush. Chuck is president and CEO of the Aluminum Association based in Washington, D.C., while Ryan is the chief operating officer of J. W Aluminum, a leading producer of flat-rolled aluminum products that was started in 1979. Chuck and Ryan, welcome to Construction Disruption. It's a pleasure to have you as our guests today.

Todd Miller:

:

It's excellent. So I will say what really kind of caught my ear and motivated me to ask you folks to come on Construction Disruption was a recent study that the association commissioned from John Burns Real Estate Consulting that predicts that aluminum usage in the residential building and construction, or B and C market, will grow by 34 to 51% just by 2024. That's really huge growth. I'm curious, did those numbers and that sort of projection surprise you folks?

Chuck Johnson:

:

Thanks a lot, Todd. Great to be here.

Todd Miller:

:

Well, thank you again for joining us. Well, Chuck, let's start with you. Can you share with us a little bit about the Aluminum Association, perhaps tell us what its mission is and maybe what's keeping you guys busy these days? What are some of the initiatives and things you're always working on?

Chuck Johnson:

:

Absolutely, Todd. The Aluminum Association is the trade association for the aluminum industry. We represent over 120 companies who do business in North America, either producing or fabricating or selling in to the North American market. And we provide a wide range of programs from product standards, metallurgical standards, to the statistical data that describes the industry. We do a lot of critical research and benchmarking, some of it very specific to the building and construction market. And then, of course, we represent the metal in all of our major markets, from consumer packaging to automotive to, of course, building and construction.

Todd Miller:

:

Very good. I know I had some work involvement with you folks several years ago as part of my involvement with Metal Construction Association. And at that time we were working on lobbying in DC for some of the energy bills and the initiatives to promote energy-efficient products. So we applaud you guys and thank you for your involvement in our industry. Ryan, tell us a little bit about J.W. Aluminum and your capabilities there.

Ryan Roush:

:

Great. Yeah, first of all, thanks again for having me. It's a pleasure to speak with you today. So, you know, as you mentioned early on, JW Aluminum is a flat-rolled aluminum products manufacturer. So starting from very, very humble beginnings almost 40, well over 40 years ago. Compare what we were doing 40 years ago from a volume standpoint. We were about a 10th of the size we are today. So so 40 years, over 40 years in business, we have two manufacturing locations in the U.S. One in Goose Creek, South Carolina, which is roughly about 20 miles northwest of Charleston, South Carolina. And we have one in Russellville, Arkansas, which is about 80 miles northwest of Little Rock. So if you look at the products we produce, we're primarily a building products manufacturer. We service, again, the building products industry, primarily residentia,l HVAC market, and some non-automotive transportation. So if you really think about it, everything that even our non-automotive transportation businesses, if you think of RV's and cargo's. You're really still focused on some of the construction aspects of those and those markets, so. So what sets us apart? You have a highly engaged team here. Strong, strong safety culture. Company culture. And a continuous improvement, a commitment to continuous improvement both from our processes standpoint, but equally as important, if not more important from our individuals. So we're proud to be here again. Thanks for, thanks for having us on the show today.

Todd Miller:

:

I was excited today when I read Chuck. I always read the Aluminum Association newsletter. You can rest assured you got one person at least out there that's reading it. I'm sure there's many more. But you know, I read today that aluminum demand year over year grew 5.3% in the first quarter of 2022, and that's on top of 8.2% growth in 2021. Those numbers seem awfully significant to me. I'm just kind of curious, do you see the the American aluminum industry as being able to respond well to this ongoing growth? And it's exciting times, it seems.

Chuck Johnson:

:

Absolutely. You know, first of all, it is great to see this incredible demand response that we're seeing for the industry in North America. We're seeing it year over year and we're seeing that it is due to multiple drivers in multiple markets, some of which we're going to discuss today in the building and construction market. But we're seeing as strong demand in automotive and in consumer packaging as well. So that demand picture is really robust and it seems to be very durable. And yeah, when you ask, can the North American industry respond to this demand growth? Absolutely. We're seeing billions of dollars of investment in our industry today. We've seen announcements in the last six months totaling 3.2 billion in new expansions in the aluminum industry in North America, most of that in flat-rolled product and in recycling infrastructure, but also in extrusion. So yes, we absolutely believe that the North American aluminum industry is poised to grow along with the demand growth that we're seeing in our major markets.

Todd Miller:

:

Very good. While I can certainly say that American producers make the best metal out there and you know, we have bought very little offshore metal over the years, but we have a tiny bit. And almost invariably when we've done that, we've been like, Why did we do that again? We just did it when we absolutely had to to meet our needs. But there's nothing that beats the American producers, no doubt about it.

Chuck Johnson:

:

No, I consistently say that North America is one of the best places in the world for the aluminum industry to do business. We produce some of the cleanest and some of the highest quality aluminum products in the world, and we have the data to prove that.

Chuck Johnson:

:

This study told us some of what we already knew as an industry, and it did surprise us in a few places. The building and construction market has consistently for three decades been one of the top three markets by volume for aluminum in North America. And we had every expectation that that would continue into the future and we saw strong demand growth. But I would say, you know, 34 to 51% is a lot. And it was great to see and to document some of the micro trends that are driving this market forward. There's a whole basket of consumer trends that are driving this. I think we'll get into them more in a moment. But some of the sustainability items surprised us a little bit because they're growing quickly in the building and construction market. And then, of course, factoring in the bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act that has just been passed, that's going to provide a deep well of demand for aluminum over the course of at least ten years. And so those two things together are sort of a perfect storm in this market. We were really happy to see it and we were both reassured by the study and also surprised in a few places.

Todd Miller:

:

Oh, that's good stuff. And we were excited to see it too. I mean, we as a metal roofing manufacturer, we are one of the few who consistently produce more aluminum product every year than we do any other metal. So we're we're strong believers in, in aluminum and in particular for roofing and other areas of the building envelope. Kind of curious, what were some of the key product groups where aluminum is projected to grow significantly? I remember reviewing the report. I actually printed it out and forgot to bring it here to the recording studio. But kind of curious, what were some of the key product groups you recall that that study really pointed to?

Ryan Roush:

:

So yeah, the study was commissioned, and like Chuck said, really pleased to see the, what I think the industry had been looking at and seeing stay in contact with their customers for some time, but that the growth projections were very, very encouraging. But the study itself really focused on the aluminum and residential building products. So if you if you look at the primary end uses in residential building products, you know, you have stuff that you see everyday on your homes, you have your trim coil, you have your gutters, downspouts, siding, your residential roofing. So it really focused on those end uses primarily within the study. And I think one of the biggest bright spots for me and I think we've been seeing this as well as is the fact that the repair remodel market is really what is driving that growth going forward. And really what that relates back to is as you look at the aging of the housing stock, so you have almost 25 million homes entering what we call and what John Burns calls the prime remodeling years. So those homes that are either newly built or had a major renovation project 20 to 39 years ago, so 1985 to 2005, which was obviously the start of some of the first boom we saw. We're seeing some of the the housing stock in that category approaching that 20 million unit figure by 2025. So if you look at that study, you can draw some quick correlation to see the growth in demand for residential building products and obviously the inherent benefits in the product itself. You know, it's a green product. It's highly recyclable, durable, energy-efficient. So all that combined is really driving the results that you're seeing, I think, out of the study in the gross examples through 2024, even beyond.

Todd Miller:

:

Very good. You know, one thing I was kind of reminded of as I've thought about aluminum in construction, this goes back 30 years ago. I would occasionally get a call from a guy named Freddy in Brooklyn, Freddy's Sheet Metal. And the part of the projects he did was cladding or re-cladding, the exterior walls of mechanical rooms and penthouses up on top of not high-rises, but four, five, or six-story buildings. And he would come to us to buy an aluminum wall panel for those. And his whole reason was the projects were small. There was no way that they merited the cost of a crane to get materials up there. So he's having to carry the materials up stairwells and sometimes on elevators to get up to the rooftop. And he loved the fact that the aluminum product was lower weight than anything else he could be using to clad those rooms full with up there. And so it's just really interesting when you look at the unique merits of aluminum, some of the things that it can lend itself to so much better than any other material out there. So as we think, though, about this growth, and I'm sure that the Aluminum Association, when you folks have your your meetings, you know, you're talking about competitive products and things out there. What are some of the competitive products that you think aluminum has the opportunity to replace in construction?

Ryan Roush:

:

Let me start with that, if you don't mind. So, you know, I think it's, I'll even say we're actually actively, myself as the Ralph's family, we're sort of putting our money where our mouth is. We've we're actually replacing wood horizontal fencing in our house here in Charleston this week. We see it when you compare the substrate itself to like wood as an example, it's non-corrosive, it's fire resistance. And look at vinyl as another example. You know, it's more durable; it doesn't warp. Compared to vinyl, the sustainability story is much greater. You're looking at aluminum as a substrate. We see very creative ways of using aluminum as a replacement substrate in all sorts of all applications. And to that point here, personally, we're actually doing our own fence. So we're excited about what the future holds for that, for the substrate itself. And I think time will tell what other what other competing products that it replaces in the future.

Todd Miller:

:

That's awesome. Is the fence an extruded product or?

Ryan Roush:

:

Its is not. It is actually the installer told me it's one of a kind for this area. It's a rolled product application. It looks exactly like a horizontal wood fence. So we're excited about it. We're going to showcase a little bit in our neighborhood. We're pretty excited about it. But obviously all my neighbors know I'm the aluminum guy, so they sort of anticipate that happening.

Chuck Johnson:

:

And Todd, I would say that what Ryan is seeing in the marketplace in terms of replacing other materials, we're seeing across the industry. And I think traditionally, the end user would choose aluminum because of its durability. That was a deciding factor in making the investment in an aluminum product, its long life. More and more, we're seeing that that durability is directly translating into environmental concerns. And even beyond durability, consumers are factoring in environmental concerns into their material choices. So they're looking at the overall carbon footprint of the products that they're choosing. And aluminum consistently performs better than other materials when you look at those factors.

Todd Miller:

:

You know, I think that's interesting. I remember several years ago we sold a job, a roof over in Columbus, Ohio, and we typically had always promoted a lot about the aesthetics of our products. And these particular homeowners made it very clear after the job was done they couldn't have cared less what it looked like. They really liked the green story of aluminum, and that was entirely what drove their purchase. And, you know, 15 years ago when that happened, that seemed rather unique. But we are hearing that more and more often where folks are coming to us looking for the right environmental choice. And Ryan, I hope we get to see your fence headlining the Aluminum Association newsletter here shortly. So I remember a trade show. Were you at that with me, Seth, where we were a trade show and catty corner from us, there was someone showing aluminum fencing. Wasn't that long, it really. You were around, I promise. But you may not have been at that particular show.

Seth Heckaman:

:

We've been to a lot of shows together, too, so I'm trying to remember.

Todd Miller:

:

We have done a few miles together, that's for sure. So I know we've talked about the you know, the green benefits, environmental benefits of aluminum. What are some of the other factors that are really kind of contributing to this growth? And I almost call it a renaissance of sorts in terms of the use of aluminum in construction.

Chuck Johnson:

:

We love the association to rise above the anecdotal. And so what we saw in the study that we conducted were four major trends. First, there's a big shift towards suburban living and contemporary commercial projects. And what we're seeing there that as we shift towards higher density living, living and more low-maintenance, modern design, we're seeing more glazing, which translates into more aluminum-intensive fenestration and more use of nontraditional materials, and that leads to the use of more aluminum. And so at the end of the day, that's more aluminum cladding, windows, and doors. The second trend we're seeing is a trend towards modular construction, including the increased use of accessory dwelling units. Modular construction is an ideal use for aluminum products, the high strength to weight ratio of aluminum and the ability to produce high-precision construction components make it an ideal use in this area. So as we see an increase in modular construction, we're going to see an increased use of aluminum there. As we said before, we've seen a lot of aluminum substitution for vinyl in replacement and remodeling, and I think we've already talked about that a good bit, but that's part of a larger trend and in a way that aging roofing that we'll see between now and the 2025 time frame. And those taken together translate into a lot of flat-rolled product on a lot of roofs out in the world. So those are the four trends we're seeing that we've really documented within this work. And I think Ryan's probably seeing some things in the marketplace.

Ryan Roush:

:

I think that's exactly right. If you if you talk about roofing, if you replace a roof, obviously we all hope it's going to be an aluminum roof. But if it's any roof replacement, you know, it generates ancillary activities, other end uses within the space that you're replacing.

Todd Miller:

:

Sure.

Ryan Roush:

:

You're typically putting new gutters and downspouts on the roof, soffit, fascia go on the application. So it's so the aging of housing stock is critical and the single biggest contributor to the growth factors in our space, we're absolutely excited about it. As Chuck said, we're actually prepared for it from a demand standpoint and we're also excited to come.

Todd Miller:

:

Yeah, that's very exciting. And I know you had mentioned the use of windows and glazing and even that study that you folks released had some beautiful imagery there of glass walls that had a lot of aluminum glazing on them and things and oh, man, it's just beautiful. We had a guest on the show a while back who was a gentleman by the name of George Smart. And George Smart is a huge fan of modernist architecture. And I know that those glass walls and things I think we touched on with him, he was just fascinated by what's happening. And it's interesting, too, when you mentioned the ADUs, I hadn't really thought about that. As far as the use of aluminum as an ideal material for offsite construction and modular type units makes a lot of sense because of its low-weight, high-strength ratio and all the other benefits that then go with it in the completed project. I know we have long touted the energy efficiency of aluminum as a roofing material and certainly as a wall material wall covering as well. Are you seeing much where folks are really trying to explore or dig in to how aluminum can contribute to the energy efficiency of structures?

Chuck Johnson:

:

What we're seeing, Todd, is an increase in the sophistication in the systems that people use to document and benchmark and measure energy efficiency in the built environment. And so you're seeing this with whole-building management systems. You're seeing it built into the green building code. Essentially, we're getting smarter about the way we document energy efficiency. And as we document it and as we measure it, there are many applications for aluminum that are coming out ahead. We tend towards the highly-engineered end of the market in the markets that we perform in and in the built environment. What that translates into is a lot of very well thought-out, very well-executed, highly-engineered products that are designed to be more energy-efficient. And so it is built into the nature of our product that we are replacing, I would say, less engineered, more traditional, and in many cases not necessarily as energy-efficient a product. But again, as I started out saying, it's really the trend towards documentation and rigorous measurement of energy efficiency that is lending itself towards the change in product selection.

Todd Miller:

:

You know, I'm glad to hear that in terms of, you know, some improved alloys and technology and enhancements to the metal to give it additional properties and better properties. You know, one of the things that we have often noted with aluminum on the building envelope is because of its structural integrity. Once it's formed, you can do a lot in terms of developing thermal brakes and so forth that are, you know, hugely beneficial from an energy standpoint. I remember a number of years ago I had the VP of sales of one of the leading North American aluminum producers in my office. And, you know, he was telling me about so many of the exciting things, you know, in those stages was pretty early that were happening in automotive. And, you know, he commented, this probably is going to be an ongoing future of the aluminum industry, would be toward the automotive sector. And, you know, one of the things that went through my mind was, you know, why can't we bring some of those enhancements, alloys and things over to building products? And, you know, that's partly our job, obviously, to work with the aluminum industry and engineer and develop products and then, you know, be able to go out and sell products that are cost-effective in the market. Where do things stack up in terms of overall goals of the Aluminum Association, is automotive still fairly high? Or is is B&C raising? I don't mean to compare them necessarily, but I'm just kind of curious where that all falls.

Chuck Johnson:

:

It's fair to ask. And what I would say is that the Aluminum Association represents aluminum. We are market agnostic. All of our members are, when you take our members in the aggregate, they are producing the metal that goes into all three of these major markets. And look, there are a lot of submarkets. We do a lot of work in wire, rod, and bar, for instance, including the wire that goes into our energy grid. And there's a lot of talk about that these days. But for these three major markets, yes, there's a lot of exciting things going on. There's a lot of innovation. We're in a transformative time for the automotive market. For instance, what we're seeing there is that we are just at the beginning stages of a transformation away from the internal combustion engine and towards battery electric vehicles. And what we're documenting there is that future vehicles are going to be designed again with as much or more aluminum than they have today. But it's an exciting time because it's a time of flux. We're seeing some of that change in the building and construction industry. We're also seeing interesting trends in the packaging market where consumer preferences are shifting. I'm sure you're aware there's a major shift and backlash against single-use plastic in the consumer realm, and that's driving increased use of aluminum as a beverage container material of choice. So all three of these markets are important. We address them in different ways, but we focus on them all equally.

Seth Heckaman:

:

You mentioned earlier the exciting news, what you've seen recently, what was it, $3.2 billion worth of investment going into the industry? I'm curious, was that, you know, remind us of that figure, but then was that pretty evenly distributed across those three sectors or did it seem to be focused in in one of those markets more than the others?

Chuck Johnson:

:

Well, we are seeing some focuses there. In the announcements and the capital investment discussions. There's a focus first on the upstream. There's a huge demand, as Ryan can attest. There is a huge demand in the market today for recycled aluminum. Green preferences are driving that material choice, and the fastest and best way to make the aluminum sector greener is to increase our recycled content. And that's true across the board. We're a growing industry, we will always need more primary material. But over 80% of the metal that's used that was used in 2021 in this industry was recycled metal. And not a lot of people know that. Now, to your question, as I said, there's a lot of, we're seeing growth in all three of our major markets. And so that upstream investment in recycling is expected to impact all three major markets. But for instance, a major new rolling mill that is focused on the automotive and clean sheet sector was just announced earlier this year, and that will be automotive and can sheet focused. But what that does is it frees up a lot of other flat-rolled capacity to service the building and construction market. So it's a rising tide that lifts all boats. But I think the major change, and Ryan can probably attest to this, is that consumers are changing the way they approach the idea of recycled content and their demands for recycled content.

Ryan Roush:

:

If you look at the building and construction products only the primary alloy has a outstanding sustainability recycling story. Most of the flat-rolled aluminum products that go into the building and construction space contain over 90% recycled content. So it becomes an education story, right? We see that driving consumer behavior, but it becomes an education story as an industry in general to really push out the benefits of the substrate and the alloys a sustainable alloy. And to Chuck's point, you know there is a lot of investment in the space. You know, JW Aluminum alone in 2018 announced over $200 milion expansion in the Charleston area. And that expansion is focused on the building and construction space and noncommercial transportation space. So so yeah, there is investment there. I think the industry is poised for additional investment and the demand profile for our products support that. So, so we're excited about it. Our technology is improving. The response from our customers as a result of the investment has been great. Couldn't ask for any better support from the customer in the market, so we're excited. But yeah, you're seeing a lot of investments to support this incremental demand.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Fantastic. Thank you for leading the industry forward and making that investment and certainly on our end or where we stand in the supply chain, it certainly is exciting for us and encouraging. So yeah, and Chuck, definitely understand your point. Capacity is capacity at this point. So an investment anywhere is going to help.

Todd Miller:

:

Sure. I love the story of aluminum. It's got an incredible story and facts about it. And, you know, interesting, it has its roots here in I think Oberlin, Ohio or someplace over in the Columbus area. With some of the original development of how to make aluminum out of bauxite, which is a pretty cool part of the story as well. But I've been at this so long. I have so many stories, don't I? Seth, I'm sorry. So, you know, 40 years ago, you know, we were using high recycled content alloys and still do. And, you know, back then there was a period of time when I almost didn't talk about it because it was seen as a negative or possibly that meant inferior quality. I remember contractors would sell against us by saying, well, you know, they're using recycled metal. Every time it rains, you're going to smell beer outside your house. I mean, literally, literally, folks would say things like that. So it's been so neat over those 40 years to see that flip and see that now people actually care about doing the right things. And, you know, we talk about the green benefits of aluminum. So I'm kind of curious. We think a lot of our audience here on Construction Disruption is younger folks who are entering the construction or design world. And, you know, they may be looking for their place in the world. What are some of the areas in the aluminum industry where you would see some exciting career and job opportunities coming up in future years? Because as you've alluded, it's much higher tech that it was 40, 50 years ago.

Chuck Johnson:

:

You know, I love that you ask that question because I love getting out and working with our workforce and for our workforce because that's really who makes the industry. Year over year, by the way, our industry has been largely stable in the United States. We pretty, we directly employ around 164,000 Americans with good-paying jobs. That's a study that we produce every two years. That same study showed us in 2022 that our industry, first we employed that 164,000 workers. We indirectly supported an additional 470,000 workers. We are a major part of the U.S. economy in the aggregate. Those positions, on average, are higher-paying jobs than general manufacturing in the United States. Overall, the industry supports $176 billion in economic output. So it's a great segment of the industry, of industry overall to work in. Good paying, stable, and exciting because of what we're doing these days in the sustainability field. Now taking the long view, the aluminum jobs in the United States have essentially stayed flat over the years, but they've moved. There's been a major shift in the United States from primary production into semi-fabrication. And so the nature of these jobs has changed in the last 20 or 30 years as testament to the continued innovation and resiliency of this industry. And so because we've seen declines in some places, but we've seen increases in others. So overall, this is a stable, great-paying, and innovative and dynamic industry for young people to look at. It gets overlooked too often. Not enough people know about aluminum and aluminum's story. And we are doing a better job today. But we will do a better job in the future of getting out and telling that story.

Todd Miller:

:

Well, I think it's fantastic. And there are a lot of opportunities, whether it's very working on lines type-thing or up into very high-tech type positions. The opportunities are out there and it's a great industry. We thank you guys for your work, supporting it and encouraging it. Well, we are getting close, this has been great, we are close to the end of our time here. And I appreciate your guy's time so much. We do something here on Construction Disruption toward the end of every episode. That is kind of to be a little bit fun. We do something called our rapid-fire questions. Now, these are seven questions that may range from serious to silly. All you got to do is give your quick answer. The way we'd work this is we'll ask a question and you both would answer if you're willing to participate. And our audience needs to understand that if Chuck and Ryan agree to this, they don't have a clue what we're going to ask. So I have to ask you both, are you up to the challenge of rapid-fire?

Chuck Johnson:

:

Sure.

Ryan Roush:

:

Let's do it.

Todd Miller:

:

Great. I don't know what I would do if someone said no, so I appreciate you going along with it. So we're going to alternate, asking your questions. Seth, why don't you start.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Question number one, think back to your childhood. What did you want to be when you grew up?

Chuck Johnson:

:

Oh, astronaut.

Todd Miller:

:

Oh, awesome.

Ryan Roush:

:

Professional baseball player.

Todd Miller:

:

You kind of got that baseball look to you. I could see that. Fantastic, okay, question number two. Well, you may have just answered question number one here, Ryan, but if you are participating in the Olympics, what event would you be in?

Ryan Roush:

:

Pole vault.

Chuck Johnson:

:

Oh, definitely track and field, probably sprints.

Todd Miller:

:

Awesome.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Alright, question number three, it's a favorite question of ours. If you had to eat a crayon, what color would you choose?

Ryan Roush:

:

Purple.

Todd Miller:

:

Purple, okay.

Chuck Johnson:

:

Red, it would look like a wound.

Todd Miller:

:

Oh, okay. Here's one of my favorite questions we do ask an occasion, and Seth and I have a inherent disagreement on the answer to this question. Top or bottom half of the bagel?

Chuck Johnson:

:

Top.

Ryan Roush:

:

I would say top.

Todd Miller:

:

See, I like the top half also.

Seth Heckaman:

:

I'm definitely an outlier on this one. We're learning every episode.

Chuck Johnson:

:

I bet Seth's is, are you a plain bagel eater? Because those of us who like everything bagels want all the toppings.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Yeah, that's the rationale most of the time when we get the answer. So yes, I am plain and the the bottom has the perfect ratio of crunch and fluff for me. I like that.

Todd Miller:

:

Of course. My thing is those very unhealthy cinnamon crunch bagels at Panera, you know, that's got all the cinnamon, sugar, and everything and it's all on the top.

Seth Heckaman:

:

There you go. Alright, next question, what is your favorite item other than your aluminum fence that you've purchased in recent memory?

Chuck Johnson:

:

Outdoor fireplace. And you can look it up, it's called a Buschbeck. I got it with the aluminum trim.

Todd Miller:

:

Oh, Bush. What was that?

Chuck Johnson:

:

Bushbeck. It's a California American-made outdoor stone fireplace with metal trim.

Todd Miller:

:

I'm gonna check that out.

Ryan Roush:

:

I hate to say it, but it's, we did install a swimming pool, so with four kids, it's a great babysitter.

Todd Miller:

:

Oh, no doubt. No doubt. We did that a few years ago, now I have to just maintain this pool every year for no particular reason. Let's see my turn, huh. What foreign language would you like to learn?

Ryan Roush:

:

Farsi.

Todd Miller:

:

Farsi? Interesting.

Chuck Johnson:

:

Well, I would be close. My significant other is Punjabi, and so that's almost not even a foreign language. I should be learning what my in-laws speak.

Todd Miller:

:

I was going to say, yeah, you got a little bit of a requirement there.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Alright, very good. Last question. Finally, when you're gone from this earth, what would you like to be remembered for?

Ryan Roush:

:

So I think it's simple for me. It's the three H's, humble, hardworking and honest.

Todd Miller:

:

Good stuff.

Chuck Johnson:

:

I'd say the people that I mentored.

Seth Heckaman:

:

Powerful.

Todd Miller:

:

Great answers. Yeah one of them, let's say, is a little bit of Dave Ramsey, I think, correct? The three H's?

Ryan Roush:

:

That's right.

Todd Miller:

:

I think he teaches that. Yeah, good stuff. Well, this has been great, guys. Thank you very much. Very informative. Real pleasure to spend some time with you. Is there anything we haven't covered today that you'd like to share with our audience, either or both of you?

Ryan Roush:

:

I think for me, it's just we talked about the powerful story of the building products alloy and the rolled product space. And it's just the continued education of architects, homeowners, builders, on those characteristics of the of the product itself.

Chuck Johnson:

:

Yeah, and I would just say I would encourage all of your listeners to never stop innovating. The built environment is such an incredibly innovative space if we let it be. Never doing the same job, exactly the same, never doing it twice exactly the same. It's just a great thing to provide consumers with a built environment that they're going to live and work in. And it's no great shakes that when you innovate, it leads you to aluminum.

Todd Miller:

:

Wow, wise words. And I love that. And, you know, that's something that comes up a lot here on the show. I know when when I was growing up in the days of 1970s tract housing, you didn't think much about doing things innovatively. You were just trying to build houses and throw them up as quick as you could. But it's really neat how we see that changing. And even now, HGTV culture is, you know, changing the built environment as well. So good stuff. So if folks wanted to get in touch with you guys, how would they most easily do that?

Ryan Roush:

:

Email is the best for me. It's simply ryanroush@jwaluminum.com. Best way to contact me.

Chuck Johnson:

:

And I would say first and foremost, for anyone who wants to learn more about aluminum in any of our major markets, please go to www.aluminum.org. There is a wealth of information there, including the study that we discussed today and I am personally always available at cjohnson@aluminum.org.

Todd Miller:

:

Fantastic and you're right, great website the association has, I'm probably on it once or twice a week trying to find something. So kudos to you guys. Well, thank you both again for joining us today. This has been great, very informative.

Chuck Johnson:

:

Thank you very much.

Ryan Roush:

:

Thanks, gentlemen.

Ryan Roush:

:

Todd Miller: And I'd like to thank our audience for tuning in to this episode of Construction Disruption with Chuck Johnson of the Aluminum Association and Ryan Roush of JW Aluminum. Please watch for future episodes of our podcast. We always have more great guests on tap. Don't forget to leave a review on Apple Podcasts or YouTube. And until our next episode, change the world for someone, make them smile, encourage them, two powerful things that we can all easily do to change the world. In the meanwhile, on to our next episode. God Bless, take care. This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode of Construction Disruption.