Shownotes
Joe Farewell joins John and Kaylee for a conversation about what high-level firearms training actually delivers, and why the answer is rarely what new students expect. Joe is a former law enforcement officer and SWAT sniper team leader who spent seven years in policing in Florida before leaving toward the end of 2018 to teach full time. He's also a competitive shooter who represented Team USA at the IPSC Rifle World Shoot, taking silver in 2019 and gold in 2024. He walks through how competition shooting is structured, from local matches up to nationals and the World Shoot, which he calls the Olympics of practical shooting, and what it takes to travel overseas with guns and ammo through the paperwork each country requires.
A through-line of the episode is Joe's training philosophy. He measures everything against three goals: the desired level of accuracy, speed, and consistency. He argues shooting is shooting whether the purpose is competition, self defense, or military use, so the fundamentals stay the same even as the application changes. He built the Dry Fire Mastery programs in 2020 during COVID after learning to improve on roughly 50 to 100 rounds a week by doing millions of dry fire repetitions for free. He explains why isolating a skill in dry fire and fixing it raises performance, and why understanding the why behind a drill matters more than burning a thousand rounds a day on flashy work.
Joe is direct about the biggest misconception students bring to advanced classes: they expect to walk away a far better shooter after two days. He compares it to taking a gym class for two days in a row and expecting to be ripped. The real value of a class is the homework and the understanding of what to train and why. The conversation moves to his move from Florida to California, the gun culture and growing matches he's found there, the new laws affecting California gun owners, and his view that growing the competition community can shift the state's politics. He closes on gear: he runs Atlas pistols and Cobalt rifles, but shows up to teach law enforcement with a stock gun so the work, not the equipment, makes the point.
Questions this episode answers
What does high-level firearms training actually give you, and what can't it give you in two days?
Joe Farewell says the real value of an advanced class is the homework and the understanding of what to train and why, not an overnight skill jump. Expecting to walk away a far better shooter after two days is like taking a gym class twice and expecting to be ripped.
How is competitive shooting structured, from local matches up to the IPSC World Shoot?
It runs from local matches up through nationals to the IPSC Rifle World Shoot, which Joe Farewell calls the Olympics of practical shooting. He represented Team USA there, taking silver in 2019 and gold in 2024.
What's involved in traveling overseas with your firearms and ammunition for a match?
Competing abroad means working through the firearm and ammunition paperwork each country requires before you can travel with your guns and ammo. Joe Farewell did this to shoot the IPSC Rifle World Shoot internationally.
What are the three goals Joe measures every shooting skill against?
Joe Farewell measures everything against accuracy, speed, and consistency. He argues shooting is shooting whether the purpose is competition, self defense, or military use, so the fundamentals stay the same even as the application changes.
What is dry fire, and why does it raise your performance for free?
Dry fire is repetition practice without live ammunition, which lets you isolate a single skill and fix it at no cost. Joe Farewell improved on roughly 50 to 100 live rounds a week by doing millions of dry fire reps, and built his Dry Fire Mastery programs in 2020 around that approach.
Why did Joe leave law enforcement to teach firearms full time?
Joe Farewell spent seven years in policing in Florida as a SWAT sniper team leader before leaving toward the end of 2018 to teach full time. He now runs Farewell Firearms Training, focused mostly on law enforcement, military, and instructor development.
What is the gun culture and competition scene actually like in California?
After moving from Florida to California, Joe Farewell found a real gun culture and growing matches there, alongside new laws affecting California gun owners. He believes growing the competition community can shift the state's politics.
Does expensive gear make you a better shooter, or does it get in the way?
Joe Farewell runs Atlas pistols and Cobalt rifles, but shows up to teach law enforcement with a stock gun so the work, not the equipment, makes the point. The skill comes from training, not the hardware.
Chapters
- 00:00 — Meet Joe Farewell
- 00:51 — Two paths: competition and law enforcement
- 01:54 — How competition shooting is structured
- 03:37 — Traveling overseas with guns and ammo
- 06:18 — The shooting community in Europe
- 08:25 — Leaving law enforcement to teach full time
- 11:26 — The classes Joe teaches and the three goals
- 14:36 — Dry Fire Crew and the Dry Fire Mastery programs
- 18:57 — New gun owners and what to buy first
- 21:06 — Moving from Florida to California
- 29:30 — From the Soapbox: the flaws students bring to class
- 34:35 — Does gear make the shooter?
- 41:36 — Gift from PSA and wrap-up
About the guest
Joe Farewell is a former law enforcement officer and SWAT sniper team leader who spent seven years in policing in Florida before leaving toward the end of 2018 to teach firearms full time. He is a competitive shooter who represented Team USA at the IPSC Rifle World Shoot, winning silver in 2019 and gold in 2024. He founded Farewell Firearms Training, where he trains civilians, law enforcement, and military units with a practical, real-world approach, and his current focus is mostly law enforcement and military classes along with instructor development. In 2020 he started the Dry Fire Mastery programs, including multigun, competition handgun, carbine, and home defense courses. He started shooting matches around age 19 or 20, has about 15 years doing this, and recently moved from Florida to California. He shoots Atlas pistols and Cobalt rifles.
Key quotes
"So when you look at the goals of it, it doesn't matter what the purpose is, the fundamentals are still going to be the same." — Joe Farewell
"By isolating it in dry fire and fixing it, it will skyrocket your performance and it's free." — Joe Farewell
"If you can build a solid foundation of the skill set, the hard skills that you need to be able to accomplish the task, then you can focus on the tactical problem at hand." — Joe Farewell
"The number one misconception that most people think when they go to a class is that they're going to walk away and be a significantly better shooter after a two day." — Joe Farewell
"the only way to get better is by pushing yourself outside of what's comfortable." — Joe Farewell
"Knowing how to train and what to train and why to train those things I think is what you should be going into more advanced class looking for." — Joe Farewell
Transcripts
Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the second podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Kaylee.
Speaker B:And I'm John.
Speaker B:And today we're joined by Joe Farewell, who is a former law enforcement officer, SWAT sniper team leader, turned firearms instructor and competitive shooter.
Speaker B: orld Shoot, winning silver in: Speaker B:Joe, thank you for joining us.
Speaker B:Hopefully I gave a good enough backstory about you.
Speaker C:Well, thank you, John.
Speaker C:That was a great, great little backstory there.
Speaker C:Thanks for the introduction.
Speaker C:Thanks for having me on here.
Speaker B:So let's kind of go into this.
Speaker B:So you were, you were former law enforcement officer, SWAT team sniper, and you also won medals for Team usa?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I, I mean, they're kind of different, different pathways.
Speaker C:I will.
Speaker C:I started out in competition shooting early on.
Speaker C:I mean, I was like 19 or 20 when I started shooting matches.
Speaker C:And then I got into law enforcement as a different route and spent seven years in that.
Speaker C:And then I was still shooting matches in the meantime, but I started teaching classes on the side just so I could afford to shoot because being a cop in Florida didn't pay anything.
Speaker C:And so to fund my addiction, I was teaching classes and I found a passion that.
Speaker C: And then towards the end of: Speaker C:Did that, did the teaching thing full time and I still compete all over the place.
Speaker C:And Rifle World Shoot, well, it wasn't last year.
Speaker C: Now we're in: Speaker C:A year and a half ago was Team USA Gold, which was fricking awesome.
Speaker B:What is it like?
Speaker B:So the World Shoot for.
Speaker B:Can you explain what that entails for the people who don't?
Speaker B:So they can kind of get an idea?
Speaker C:Sure.
Speaker C:So competition shooting in general, there are many different levels to it.
Speaker C:So for instance, last weekend I shot a competition.
Speaker C:It's a local match.
Speaker C:Now local matches can be, you know, once a week, once a month.
Speaker C:And they're just, there's no prizes.
Speaker C:It's going to be, you know, 20 to $50 to participate.
Speaker C:It might be 30 people there.
Speaker C:This one in particular had like 200 people almost.
Speaker C:So it's actually huge local match.
Speaker C:They have a great turnout out here.
Speaker C:Moving up from there, you have like regional and state matches, then you have nationals, and then you have World Shoot.
Speaker C:And iSpic.
Speaker C:IPSC is the international Practical Shooting Confederation.
Speaker C:And that's like the Olympics of, of practical shooting, if you will.
Speaker C:And so every Three years they do a Rifle World Shoot, and they kind of do it on a rotation.
Speaker C:So you have Rifle World Shoot.
Speaker C:You have Shotgun World Shoot, Pistol World Shoot.
Speaker C:They just introduced last year the first pcc, which is pistol caliber carbine and mini Rifle World Shoot.
Speaker C:So you can shoot.22s.
Speaker C: ry, two Rifle World shoots in: Speaker C:And then I've got Shotgun World Shoot this year, and that's going to be in October in Greece.
Speaker C: fle World Shoot next year for: Speaker C:So the actual competition is over the course of a week or six days, I guess, of shooting.
Speaker C:And they have typically.
Speaker C:So Rifle World shoot was about 800 or 900 competitors.
Speaker C:So it's huge.
Speaker C:It's a massive.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's really like the Olympics of shooting.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's pretty incredible.
Speaker B:They're doing this in other countries.
Speaker B:I don't want to dive too far into this, but I think this is cool.
Speaker B:What was it like going overseas with your gun and ammo and everything?
Speaker B:Like, how does that work, going into Europe with everything?
Speaker C:It is a challenge.
Speaker C:There's a lot of paperwork, both leaving the country and going in their country and then also bringing it back into our country.
Speaker C: o have, I think it's called a: Speaker C:You have to go out there and have them sign off on your serial numbers and all of the stuff.
Speaker C:But then the process for getting into the country is incredibly challenging.
Speaker C:And each country is different, which is crazy.
Speaker C:I mean, it's.
Speaker C:I guess it is what it is.
Speaker C:But to get into Finland, which is where Rifle World Shoot was last year, basically, and it streamlined somewhat because we have the World Shoot and they're expecting all these people and they have the intermediaries that are going to be there to help, you know, grease the wheels.
Speaker C:But basically we had to get the invitation to the match from the match director.
Speaker C:You had to have our country's match coordinator, their invitation, if you will, you had to send that in with a whole packet of serial numbers and everything that you're planning on bringing to their law enforcement.
Speaker C:They have to send you a permit to bring all your stuff in.
Speaker C:And then when you get there, it's very specific on what you can, you know, you have to travel with your bolt out of your rifle and your rifle in a lock case separate from the ammo and all These different rules.
Speaker C:And then afterwards we ran into an issue where we wanted to travel and we were going to go up into Sweden and then Norway for a couple of days.
Speaker C:And what do we do with our guns?
Speaker C:Because while we can bring them into Finland, we don't just have carte blanche to bring them into Sweden and Norway.
Speaker C:So luckily there was a local gun shop there that I made friends with some of the guys that shot for them and they're like, yeah, you can just throw it into our safe while you're, while you're gone.
Speaker C:And like, that's awesome.
Speaker C:So we did that.
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Speaker B:Competitive shooting and shooting in general is a kind of a U.S. people think of it as like a U.S. focus thing, especially in, in the U.S. but it is a worldwide thing.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:There are things.
Speaker B:And then when you talk about Europe, people go, well, Great Britain, well, Great Britain's a part of Europe.
Speaker B:There's a lot shooters than you think in the European countries.
Speaker C:There's actually a great community of shooters in Europe and they have a lot of big competitions.
Speaker C:There's actually a lot of matches over there.
Speaker C:And the UK is as difficult as they are to work with.
Speaker C:There's a lot of guys that come out of there and have guns elsewhere or they find ways to borrow guns that are actually really good shooters.
Speaker C:There's some really good shotgun shooters that come out of, out of the UK and then I've got friends who come over there, come over from there and they shoot three gun here in the US and they borrow guns and take classes like they, they love it.
Speaker C:Like they, the shooting community is rich over there as well.
Speaker C:Now it is a different community.
Speaker C:It's a different, I guess it's a different mindset if you will, because they have to go through this huge long process and competitive shooting is actually one of the easiest ways to become a gun owner in Some of those countries, because it shows that you're there, you know, you have a viable sporting use for the firearm.
Speaker C:And most of the countries require you to have some legitimate use, quote unquote, that you can't use it for self defense, but you can have it for, for competition.
Speaker C:So one of the easiest pathways over there in Europe is to say, hey, I'm gonna, I want to shoot competition.
Speaker C:So then they have to go join a club and they might have to be a member of the club for a year before they can buy a gun, and then they can buy one gun.
Speaker C:And so there's this huge process.
Speaker C:So the people that are over there that are shooting competitions are wildly invested into the process, which means that they, they love it.
Speaker C:Like, they, they are passionate about it.
Speaker C:It's not like here a lot of times you'll find people that will shoot a match every other month or every three months or whatever.
Speaker C:And it's just kind of a fun hobby when they have free time to do.
Speaker C:So over there, it's like, no, if you're gonna go shoot competitions, you're taking it seriously because of the hurdles you have to jump through to get to that point.
Speaker B:You, you left law enforcement, you went into training full time.
Speaker B:You know, what was the hurdles coming from, you know, going from a full time job to now?
Speaker B:You're just, you're just focused on that training aspect.
Speaker C:Well, I went from having basically like two and a half full time jobs to just being able to focus on my business.
Speaker C:And it was a, it was a hurdle for sure, but it wasn't as terrifying as a lot of people make it out to be.
Speaker C:I know some people have had different experiences.
Speaker C:For me, I went into law enforcement with the idea that I knew this was something that I wanted to do, but I'd also spend enough time in it ahead of time to see a lot of cops who, they're stuck waiting for retirement.
Speaker C:And these are guys who are like, they joined, they were super excited.
Speaker C:They do a few years and then they're like, all right, I've got 12 years to go to retirement and I hate every day of my life.
Speaker C:Just 12 more years of misery.
Speaker C:I'm like, I don't want to be that guy.
Speaker C:Like, I, I don't want to like hold up everything and be miserable trying to hit retirement.
Speaker C:And so that was something that, when I went into it, I already knew that I would love to hit retirement.
Speaker C:But if it's not working out and it's, there's, it's a clear that there's something else that's going to be better then I'm not opposed to changing paths.
Speaker C:And I think that's a.
Speaker C:Having that as an idea in my head in the first place helped me out in the long run because when it did come time, it was pretty clear.
Speaker C:And this was at the start of a lot of the hands up, don't shoot, the Black Lives Matter stuff was kicking off.
Speaker C:We had some riots in our city and this was stuff that we.
Speaker C:I'm like, this is crazy political.
Speaker C:The politics of the city and the politics of the police department were ridiculous.
Speaker C:And it was going in direction I didn't want to participate in.
Speaker C:And luckily I got out right before all of the craziness with COVID But I also had the, the benefit of not getting paid very well.
Speaker C:There was, I think my take home check was.
Speaker C:It was eleven hundred dollars every other week was my take home.
Speaker C:And that was working special investigations.
Speaker C:I was the head of our crime, of our gang unit.
Speaker C:I was on our SWAT team.
Speaker C:I was on a task force, federal task force.
Speaker C:So I had all, I was in training.
Speaker C:Like I had all these different hats that I was wearing and I was like bear.
Speaker C:I couldn't make ends meet.
Speaker C:I had to work something outside of the police department, otherwise I couldn't even pay my bills.
Speaker C:And so when I realized that, oh, I can, I can actually teach one class and make as much as I would in two weeks of the police department, maybe I should, you know, consider doing this as a, as a more full time gig.
Speaker C:And then that, that progressed and I had some things that kind of kicked me in the pants to go that direction and made the jump.
Speaker C:And it was the best move I could have made.
Speaker A:So what kind of classes do you teach?
Speaker A:What are your kind of your passion classes that are, are the ones that you can't wait to teach again.
Speaker A:And then we'll kind of get into the.
Speaker A:Moving from Florida to California and everything that entails in that, in that way.
Speaker C:So my, my primary focus with classes is performance shooting and that's.
Speaker C:I do everything from, you know, pistol competition, pistol stuff, defensive pistol stuff.
Speaker C:I do a lot of rifle classes now and, and my main focus for the past couple years has been this has just been an organic transformation to where I'm doing mostly law enforcement and military classes.
Speaker C:So an agency will hire me to come in and train their SWAT team or their instructor cadre.
Speaker C:I do a lot of instructor development.
Speaker C:That's probably my favorite one to do because these are guys who are, are teaching.
Speaker C:They want to get better at teaching.
Speaker C:And I can take what I've Learned over the 15 years of doing this and shooting with all sorts of people.
Speaker C:And it also has the ability of bridging the gap between competition and, you know, what they call real world or tactical shooting.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like I've done both sides of the coin at a, at a high level.
Speaker C:And so that's, that's kind of what I love to do.
Speaker C:I love doing the instructor development stuff, but it's all practical based.
Speaker C:So when I look at practical shooting, it's always coming down to how do we master these three goals?
Speaker C:And the goals are how do we get the desired level of accuracy, how do we get it as quickly as possible and how do we do that consistently?
Speaker C:And so everything I do is with those three goals in mind.
Speaker C:Now I, I've taught like CQB classes and stuff like that, you know, vehicle dynamic, like all these kind of trendy tactical classes.
Speaker C:But what I've always come back to is the baseline of shooting is what we need to establish first before you start applying it to a tactical situation.
Speaker C:If you can build a solid foundation of the skill set, the hard skills that you need to be able to accomplish the task, then you can focus on the tactical problem at hand.
Speaker C:So that's what I focus on primarily is how do we shoot faster, more accurate and consistently make your gear setup work for you.
Speaker C:And then I do that for instructors and law enforcement and military for the most part.
Speaker C:Now when I do civilian classes, it is performance based.
Speaker C:I won't say it's strictly competition, but it definitely has a com.
Speaker C:A competitive focus.
Speaker C:I do have a lot of guys that come out that aren't necessarily competitors, but they just want to get better at shooting.
Speaker C:And that's, that's kind of what my focus is revolved around.
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Speaker B:Before we talk about Florida to California, I do have to ask this.
Speaker B:So I see your, your shirt, it says Dry Fire Crew.
Speaker B:See your hat?
Speaker B:Yes, same thing.
Speaker B:So what is Dry Fire Crew?
Speaker C:So Dry Fire Crew is something I came up with in.
Speaker C: It was: Speaker C:I grew up, I Won't say grew up.
Speaker C:When I started shooting again, I was broke as hell as a cop.
Speaker C:And so in order for me to train, I was fortunate to have a range at my property, at my house.
Speaker C:I could go out and shoot basically in my backyard, but I didn't have ammo.
Speaker C:And so I could afford like 50, maybe 100 rounds of ammo every week or two.
Speaker C:But in order for me to get good, I consumed information on the Internet, YouTube and Instagram, Facebook and dry fired.
Speaker C:And so I did millions of repetitions without any ammo working dry fire drills.
Speaker C:And what I learned through that process is when we isolate certain skill sets and we hammer them until they're correct and we introduce them back into the, the macro of testing whether it's on the stage or a scenario or even just in a bigger drill on the range.
Speaker C:By isolating it in dry fire and fixing it, it will skyrocket your performance and it's free.
Speaker C: So in: Speaker C:I started with a single program which was my multigun mastery course.
Speaker C:And that was a 30 day course focus on three gun.
Speaker C:And it was 30 drills that I filmed and laid out to where as you progress, we, we add more layers to it.
Speaker C:And that was successful.
Speaker C:People loved it because it gave them a, a process of how to work their dry fire and what they should be working and why they work, certain things, how I train.
Speaker C:And then I added to that.
Speaker C:So now I have like competition handgun mastery.
Speaker C:I have carbine mastery for guys working with rifles.
Speaker C:I have a home defense mastery.
Speaker C:And that was one we just released last year that my wife and I did together.
Speaker C:A lot of it where we talk some about shooting and some of the fundamentals, but it's more of like how do you, even if you don't have a gun in your home, how do you prepare your home in such a way that you can at least have a plan and write up a plan and have a family conversation about home defense and make yourself a little bit of a harder target because of the situation that we are in these days.
Speaker C:Like things are kind of crazy.
Speaker C:So all of that is like my online training package.
Speaker C:So I have like in person training, you know, law enforcement, military, civilian side, and I have online training which is its own entity.
Speaker A:So when you're training the, the kind of differences between the civilian side and, and you know, the, the law enforcement side, what do you seek as kind of that consistent thread between those three groups where you would encourage people to kind of start to Better themselves.
Speaker C:The first thing I would say is shooting is shooting.
Speaker C:So whether you're doing practical shooting is shooting, if you're doing it for self defense or you're doing it for competition, you're doing it for offense in the military world, shooting is shooting.
Speaker C:So when you look at the goals of it, it doesn't matter what the purpose is, the fundamentals are still going to be the same.
Speaker C:The application will change, but the fundamentals are the same.
Speaker C:As somebody getting into it, the common thread that you're looking for would be how do we achieve the fundamentals and master those?
Speaker C:And then how do we train them so that they're.
Speaker C:They become, you know, second nature, they become muscle memory.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Subconscious repetitions.
Speaker C:And that's what I focus on with the, the dry fire mastery courses.
Speaker C:I think every, every single skill set out there, every sport out there has some form of dry fire.
Speaker C:You know, whether it's shadow boxing in the gym, whether it's, you know, the putting, if you're a golfer, right?
Speaker C:Like, there's all sorts of different skill set that you can dry fire without having to go to the actual competition to learn it.
Speaker C:So I think that there's huge value in that.
Speaker C:And especially for somebody who's just starting out, the.
Speaker C:The focus on the process instead of looking for holes in the paper and worrying about the gunshot is a huge part of it.
Speaker B:You're teaching all these classes.
Speaker B:We've seen this.
Speaker B:And you kind of started during COVID so we saw this big rise of new gun owners and things like that.
Speaker B:So when you're talking about new gun owners, you know, are you talking to them about their first gun purchase?
Speaker B:If.
Speaker B:Are they asking you more about what should I get for home defense?
Speaker B:You know, what does that look like?
Speaker B:If you were to go like, walk in and somebody's like, I just want to get a gun.
Speaker C:So I started, actually during COVID I started a.
Speaker C:A free class I did online.
Speaker C:It would just be a one hour, you know, online live class.
Speaker C:And I did probably, I don't know, 20 of those.
Speaker C:And I think I had, man, probably.
Speaker C:I probably had about a thousand people go through that, which was really cool.
Speaker C:Just a new gun owner or, you know, people who had questions.
Speaker C:And I put it out there and it was all those questions like, what should I buy?
Speaker C:What are.
Speaker C:What.
Speaker C:What legally do I need to have?
Speaker C:Now I condensed a lot of that information into a course that I created that was just handgun foundations.
Speaker C:And it's exactly that.
Speaker C:What gun do you need to buy?
Speaker C:What kind of ammo do you need for going to the range or for home defense?
Speaker C:Do we put optics on it?
Speaker C:Do we put flashlights on it?
Speaker C:Like, what do you need?
Speaker C:And while I'm not a gun shop, those are things that a lot of people have questions on.
Speaker C:And being able to do that in an online platform from the comfort of your own home was, was beneficial.
Speaker C:And then as far as, like, I don't do classes like that anymore.
Speaker C:Like, I just, I don't have the time for it.
Speaker C:So I've stopped doing like concealed carry classes.
Speaker C:I don't really do any fundamental classes.
Speaker C:The demand for the higher end, which is where I can, you know, prove my worth, I guess, is high enough to where I don't have to do this classes.
Speaker C:And there's plenty of instructors out there that are doing a foundation, you know, fundamental handgun course or a fundamental rifle course.
Speaker C:So I don't, I don't get to experience a whole lot of new gun owners anymore.
Speaker C:I like, I enjoyed that, but I enjoy doing the higher end stuff even more.
Speaker B:So we've hinted on it twice now.
Speaker B:We might as well talk about it.
Speaker B:So you moved from beautiful, free California or Florida to behind enemy lines in California, you know?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Uno, reverse.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Like, what's the, what's the culture shock now you're, you're in California?
Speaker C:Well, it's pretty funny because I've, I've gotten an inordinate amount of hate because I moved to California.
Speaker C:And like, from people I don't even know, they're like, I can't believe you're moving to California.
Speaker C:Why would you ever do.
Speaker C:You're an idiot.
Speaker C:But like, bro, I don't even know you, like, what's with the hate?
Speaker C:But I also understand it.
Speaker C:Like I've been on both sides of the coin.
Speaker C:The reason for the move.
Speaker C:Yes, I, I was born and raised in Florida.
Speaker C:I had basically everything you could ever wish for in Florida.
Speaker C:I have my own property, still have it.
Speaker C:It's for sale.
Speaker C:If anybody wants to buy a 10 acre property with a, your own personal shooting range in your backyard that has 400 yards and 180 degree berm and steel and it's backed up to a nature preserve and a pond and animals and yeah, it's pretty freaking awesome and I miss it already.
Speaker C:But we moved out here because my wife lived out here before and she loved it.
Speaker C:And I'm out here three months of the year already training for some of the contract stuff that I do.
Speaker C:And so moving her back out here was absolutely the move.
Speaker C:And I'm on the road a lot anyway.
Speaker C:I think last year I had about four and a half or five months total that I was gone.
Speaker C:And it says actually more, more than that.
Speaker C:Probably, it's probably five to six months I was on the road, so I'm gone a lot.
Speaker C:She hated being left alone in Florida.
Speaker C:Her, her support system is out here, her friends are out here.
Speaker C:She's going back to work out here because she loves, she's a personal trainer, she loves doing that.
Speaker C:And where we were in Florida was out in the boondocks and it was great for me when I was at home and I wanted to go out and shoot in my backyard, but it was not great for her.
Speaker C:And so it's, it's, she put in three years out there and I said, all right, let's go back to California.
Speaker C:And I, I'm still going to be able to go to the range.
Speaker C:And the cool thing is out here I, I have a lot of contacts, I do a lot of training out here.
Speaker C:And the shooting community is actually huge.
Speaker C:They have these, these enormous local matches.
Speaker C:Like I said this last weekend we had over 200 shooters come out to a one day match and they have matches every single weekend.
Speaker C:Like within a two or three hour drive I could easily shoot three or four matches a week.
Speaker C:So there's not a lack of gun owners, there's not a lack of shooters.
Speaker C:There's just a politics issue and a tax issue and yes, there are major issues with that, but there are also loopholes to get around a lot of it.
Speaker C:And I haven't figured them all out yet.
Speaker C:I'm still working on that process.
Speaker C:But it's definitely, there's a lot of conservatives out here that do support the second and do want to see the state's politics turned around.
Speaker C:And I mean they've lost a lot too because people go in the opposite direction that I took.
Speaker C:In fact, my U haul was real cheap because they wanted U hauls back in California, not in Florida.
Speaker C:So it was, it's just a different pathway than most people take, but you can't argue with that.
Speaker C:It has great weather and my wife will be happier and I still have plenty of work to do out here.
Speaker A:You, you, you raise a couple of interesting points and that is things that we get to see as well.
Speaker A:So there are tons of gun owners in California and there is a thriving community that honestly gets the short end of the stick when it comes to so much of, you know, having to have a handgun that's on the approved list.
Speaker A:And you know, you Guys unfortunately are kind of left behind on a lot of the innovation just because of how long it takes to get on on the list and just so many hoops to jump through.
Speaker A:But culturally, how do you see, as the matches continue to grow as the shooting culture, honestly at times probably feels like it's defying the odds.
Speaker A:Where do you think that leaves California in the years to come?
Speaker A:Do you see more people joining the community or is it getting more polarized?
Speaker C:It's a great question and I don't have a clear answer for you yet.
Speaker C:Having been out here consistently for the past four years, I can tell you that the matches aren't getting smaller, they're continuing to grow.
Speaker C:More and more people are wanting to shoot, more and more people are on board and the more those grow, the more your voting base is going to shift that direction as well.
Speaker C:And so I do think that it's important for those grassroots efforts to be able to push new people into the competition space because you're getting people that are in, I mean, I've shot with people who are in the IT industry, I've shot with people who are in the, the movie and film industry out here.
Speaker C:And these are people who are in, you know, traditionally very closed off liberal circles.
Speaker C:And when you can start pulling them into this crowd now, it makes for some interesting conversations on the range sometimes, but at least the conversations are happening.
Speaker C:And when they start to see that, oh yeah, it is incredibly difficult for me to go buy ammo and like, there's new laws they're coming up with all the time and, and changes like, oh, I want to buy a new grip for my rifle.
Speaker C:Well, nobody's shipping grips to California anymore because of this new law.
Speaker C:They just went into effect in January.
Speaker C:And so it's like these stupid things that more and more people are realizing, okay, that's, that's not actually fixing any problem, that's just a, a knee jerk band aid that doesn't actually bandage anything.
Speaker C:It's good.
Speaker C:So I think that the, the competition aspect is always, always a great thing to push and it gets people involved in a way that they're more invested into, you know, their own desires, I guess.
Speaker C:And seeing this furthered and it will pull people in even that aren't traditionally on the, the more conservative side.
Speaker C:The community is growing and if we can, we have a governor race this year.
Speaker C:I guess something I need to read up more on.
Speaker C:Now that I'm out here, I'm like, oh, like I should actually pay attention to some of the California politics a bit, little bit better.
Speaker C:But with that, like there's some more conservative Republicans that are potentially getting in and that would be amazing.
Speaker C:And it would be you that could absolutely flip the, the entire politics of California or at least put it, put it in the right direction.
Speaker C:And I think that people are, people are ready for that after so many years of newsome and they've.
Speaker C:You try to recall them and it didn't work.
Speaker C:And whether that happens or not, who knows it's there.
Speaker C:There's still a lot of work to be done there before we can see that shift happen.
Speaker C:But if it did, man, I'll tell you what, California would be the place to be.
Speaker C:If we can get politics correct and taxes correct.
Speaker C:People want to be, they'd be flocking back out here because it really is an amazing state.
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Speaker A:Time for my favorite segment, which is from the Soapbox where we dive into the spicier topics and really kind of get to rip the band aid off, so to speak, and just have really frank conversations that I think are necessary for this space to grow and thrive.
Speaker A:And so you had mentioned earlier in the podcast that you know, you're not teaching CCW and fundamental classes as much anymore and that you've really gotten to the people that are, you know, leveling up, focused on competitions or law enforcement or military because there's so much of a demand.
Speaker A:What do you think is the biggest flaw that people come into when they're going into a higher level course where what they think they're going to get out of it and what they end up getting out of it might be two different things.
Speaker A:Or, or do you Feel like when people are ready to take that next step that they're already at a certain level of preparedness for what you're teaching.
Speaker C:I think I'll break your, your question down into two parts.
Speaker C:The first part is, you know, whether people are ready to take a higher end quote unquote hiring class or not.
Speaker C:I think a lot of people who look at these, these more advanced classes kind of put them on a pedestal where they don't need to be.
Speaker C:I've had people who are pretty new take the classes and the, the main thing that I'm looking for is are you fundamentally safe?
Speaker C:Like, are you working from a holster?
Speaker C:Are you working with your rifle?
Speaker C:Like, are you doing that in a safe manner?
Speaker C:And if you are, then you, you like the only way to get better is by pushing yourself outside of what's comfortable.
Speaker C:And if you're not sure if you're doing that safe yet, then that's where maybe you take some of these, you know, the, the intro classes, the fundamentals classes, and then just freaking send it.
Speaker C:Go take a class, right?
Speaker C:Find what, what is uncomfortable and start working on that.
Speaker C:And then the second part of that question is, what, what do people get out of the classes?
Speaker C:Or what are they expecting to get out of these classes?
Speaker C:And I think the number one misconception that most people think when they go to a class is that they're going to walk away and be a significantly better shooter after a two day.
Speaker C:And in reality, it's not the case right now.
Speaker C:Are you going to be better from where you were on day one to where you are on the afternoon of day two or day three, whatever the class is?
Speaker C:Yes, you will have been shooting for two or three days straight.
Speaker C:You should be better at that point.
Speaker C:But it's not going to be leaps and bounds, okay?
Speaker C:It's like going to the gym and taking a class for two days in a row.
Speaker C:You're not going to suddenly become ripped after taking a class.
Speaker C:What it's going to do.
Speaker C:The purpose of a class, at least my classes are, they're.
Speaker C:The purpose of my classes are to give you the homework and the fundamental understanding of what you need to do and why you need to do it.
Speaker C:Because if you don't understand the why behind it and you're just like, let's go shoot some flashy drills for, you know, a thousand rounds a day.
Speaker C:That's super cool.
Speaker C:Well, that, that only goes so far and it's not going to give you lasting fulfillment in your shooting, lasting progress in your shooting.
Speaker C:So what My mission has always been, and kind of goes back to the way I started with all this is the dry fire side is like fundamentally in on a micro scale, what do we need to work on to make the next step better and how do we do that and why do we do that?
Speaker C:And I'm a nerd when it comes to this stuff.
Speaker C:And so I break things down sometimes too much and we get into the weeds a lot and get into some conversations.
Speaker C:But also I get away from the conversations that people love to have about gear and because I always go back to my three standards and if it makes you slower, it's bad.
Speaker C:If it makes you less accurate, it's bad.
Speaker C:If you can't do it consistently, it's bad.
Speaker C:If it makes you faster, good.
Speaker C:If it makes you more accurate, good.
Speaker C:If you can do it consistent, good.
Speaker C:So if it doesn't affect those, then it's personal preference.
Speaker C:If it does affect those, if it affects any of those three standards, then it's not up for argument.
Speaker C:It's do we put it on a timer, can we put it on target and can we verify if this way is better or that way is better?
Speaker C:And that eliminates a lot of arguments.
Speaker C:But going back to that original question, people show up to a class, they think they're going to, they're going to pay their $600 for class, they're going to walk away two days later as like a fricking GM level shooter and they're gonna get hit with a dose of reality.
Speaker C:Is you've got, you know, a lot of work to do before you're able to, you know, achieve that.
Speaker C:And it's a lot of homework and it's a lot of effort and it's absolutely worthwhile.
Speaker C:And it's not, it can be a grind, but it's fun.
Speaker C:Like I love the training process and knowing how to train and what to train and why to train those things I think is what you should be going into more advanced class looking for.
Speaker B:I don't even think I have a follow up question to that because it was so well said.
Speaker B:You mentioned gear and that's a big thing that I always hear is everybody wants the latest and greatest and in Cry precision or this or that or this.
Speaker B:And I'm not calling it Cry makes great gear.
Speaker B:I want to make that very clear before I get roasted.
Speaker C:But cry makes great gear, that it's very expensive.
Speaker B:Yes, but everybody wants to go late and grace.
Speaker B:So have you had students show up to class and they've got like the new Whiz bang of the week and you're just like what are you doing?
Speaker B:Why, why are you here with this?
Speaker C:I, I've had it both ways.
Speaker C:I've had guys who showed up to class with a $30 holster and a stock M and P or a Glock and a couple mags and they are just crushing it.
Speaker C:And I've had guys show up to class that have all the cry precision and the, you know, nicest rifle and they just suck.
Speaker C:And I've had guys who show up to class with all the nicest stuff and they can crush.
Speaker C:So there the gear spectrum is just that.
Speaker C:It's a wide spectrum of it's parts.
Speaker C:Right now the main thing I'm looking for is, is your stuff reliable?
Speaker C:Can you run it?
Speaker C:Those, those are the main two things.
Speaker C:Now I love my Gucci gear.
Speaker C:I run, I run the best.
Speaker C:Like I, I shoot Atlas pistols because they're, they're the best.
Speaker C:I've been running their stuff for years.
Speaker C:I shoot cobalt rifles because they're freaking the best.
Speaker C:I, I've been running them for years and I, I beat the hell out of them.
Speaker C:None of my stuff are, are safe queens.
Speaker C:I absolutely work them to death.
Speaker C:And what, what that tells me is like if I can pick something up and run it really, really hard, it's worth the price that you pay for it.
Speaker C:Okay, now can I go back and pick up a stock lock and go shoot a match and, and win?
Speaker C:Probably.
Speaker C:So yeah, I've done that before.
Speaker C:I picked up a cheap gun and a Sig.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker C:I'll shoot my work gun and, and run that for a match and when I don't need the Top Gear.
Speaker C:But that doesn't mean that like when you drive a Ferrari, it's not fun to jump into Toyota again.
Speaker C:Like I don't want to go do that every day.
Speaker C:Like if I have to, I can drive the Toyota, but I much rather drive the Ferrari.
Speaker C:I don't have a Ferrari, but that's what I imagine it would be like.
Speaker B:We have a new challenge.
Speaker B:So this is our friend, Ursula Williams.
Speaker B:I don't know if you ever met Ursula.
Speaker C:Oh, I'm good friends with Ursula.
Speaker B:Ursula's good friend.
Speaker B:So Ursula shoots staccatos and Yep.
Speaker B:And I were sitting down joking the one day and I was like, I bet you we could trade all your staccatos in and we could get you a pallet of high points and you have to shoot all your matches with high points.
Speaker B:And she was in.
Speaker B:But that's your new challenge.
Speaker B:You have to shoot a match with a High Point pistol.
Speaker B:You cannon.
Speaker B:Preferably.
Speaker C:You got to win the YC9.
Speaker B:The YC9.
Speaker C:You got to do it.
Speaker B:Because it brings up the reason why I'm talking about High Points because it brings up a funny story.
Speaker B:We had a friend.
Speaker B:Friend of ours from the AR15 podcast.
Speaker B:Duly.
Speaker B:I was sitting with him at Shot show, and he was at a rifle class, and somebody showed up with the latest and greatest gear, like a $4,000 rifle, and he's shooting his high point AR.
Speaker B:And yes, high Point makes ARS for people who don't know.
Speaker B:And the guy goes, man, that thing's holding some moa.
Speaker B:Wow, that thing's so great.
Speaker B:It's got.
Speaker B:That's got to be like a BCM or something good.
Speaker B:He goes, oh, it's this new company called hi Point.
Speaker B:And he's like, oh, yeah, he's looking at it, and he's looking at it.
Speaker B:And he goes, yeah, dude, it's.
Speaker B:It's a High Point.
Speaker B:He's like, no, I can't be.
Speaker B:So it is.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:It's the combination of parts and everything in it.
Speaker B:And trust me, I know.
Speaker B:I've built so many ars and was building ARS for years.
Speaker B:And, yeah, it all comes down to, like, the little things of tuning and the barrel harmonics and this and that.
Speaker B:And people are like, you're full of crud because you need this.
Speaker B:I'm like, no, it's the parts to the whole.
Speaker B:Yeah, so also cheap.
Speaker B:He said, cheap gun and said sig.
Speaker B:And I'm like, wow, I don't know how I feel about that.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker C:Yes, Well, I. I typically train with, like, when I'm teaching law enforcement, military.
Speaker C:I usually run a P320.
Speaker C:You can hate me if you want to, or a Waller pdp or.
Speaker C:I picked up a.
Speaker C:An M and P, but I'm having issues with the mags on that one, so I've got to buy a new one, which I don't know if I can do in California, but we'll see.
Speaker C:There's.
Speaker C:There's always a way.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:So those are my, like, my work guns.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's, you know, a stock gun.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:What I found is when I go teach these units, if you show up with a six or $7,000 pistol on, everything you say is met with some.
Speaker C:Some resistance from that point forward, because there's this thing in the back of your head of, oh, it's because he's got this nice gun.
Speaker C:Like, it.
Speaker C:Let's try that with A Glock, right?
Speaker C:And I've had guys do that.
Speaker C:Like, all right, you're running a Sig with an optic.
Speaker C:Why don't you try it with a Glock with iron sights?
Speaker C:I'm like, give me your Glock.
Speaker C:Oh, I was just kidding.
Speaker C:Like, no, give it to me, and I'll run the drill.
Speaker C:And I still crush.
Speaker C:And they're like, okay, fine.
Speaker C:You can run whatever you want to.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But there.
Speaker C:When you go into these.
Speaker C:These groups, there's always a chip on the shoulder.
Speaker C:There's always this.
Speaker C:This.
Speaker C:I don't like to call it an ego that you have to overcome, but something like that where it's.
Speaker C:You have to get to a point in their perception that you are now an expert in the.
Speaker C:Of the craft, and they can receive what you're giving to them.
Speaker C:When you show up with a fancy gun, which I like to show up to with matches, there's.
Speaker C:It makes that point even significantly harder to get past.
Speaker C:So I show up with a stock gun.
Speaker C:I show up with a PDP or a Sig or M and P, and that gets there a lot faster.
Speaker C:That said, when I go to shoot a match with it, I still prefer my fancy guns.
Speaker C:So that.
Speaker C:That is a cheap gun.
Speaker B:Listen, in comparison, I understand that I had a friend who had an atlas, and he was like, you can outshoot.
Speaker B:He can, like, outshoot all of us.
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, well, here's.
Speaker B:My stock was a stock prodigy, and I drew a smiley face on the target.
Speaker B:He goes, did you mean to do that on purpose?
Speaker B:I was like, yes, I did.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:What do you want from me?
Speaker B:So it's just fun messing with people when you get stock stuff once in a while.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker C:The nice thing is Atlas makes a whole part kit.
Speaker C:Now for the Prodigy, they do.
Speaker C:You put an Atlas grip on there.
Speaker C:Atlas triggers Atlas firing control.
Speaker C:Like, it's.
Speaker C:They actually.
Speaker C:They released it.
Speaker C:They started a new company that they opened up it.
Speaker C:I think it's just before shot show, they.
Speaker C:They put.
Speaker C:Made it public, but perfect zero.
Speaker C:And they put all the stuff that they were doing for other guns.
Speaker C:So you like your staccatos, your.
Speaker C:Your prodigies, all of that stuff that you can buy a parts kit.
Speaker C:You can even go send your gun in and get it, like, refitted with their stuff and fit properly.
Speaker C:It's pretty cool.
Speaker B:Sounds like he's trying to make me spend a lot of money, which I don't need to do.
Speaker C:You could do that, or you could just buy an atlas.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah, or I could just buy an atlas, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Joe, thank you for being on the show.
Speaker B:As a thank you, we gave our gift for our guests, which is from Palmetto State Armory.
Speaker B:So you'll get an email after this with instructions on that.
Speaker B:So thank you, Palmetto State Armory, for sponsoring our gift for our guest for a second season.
Speaker B:Appreciate that.
Speaker C:That's awesome.
Speaker C:I love.
Speaker C:I buy a lot of stuff from psa.
Speaker B:All right, Joe, you got any parting farewells you want to say to anybody?
Speaker C:No, I, I appreciate you guys having me on.
Speaker C:It's been a good time, good conversations with you, and my, my hope is that we can change some of the culture through the.
Speaker C:The podcast world, especially if we can push California to be, you know, go back to what its roots were, which was a cool state with cool people, and hopefully you can get some halfway decent laws out here, some good politics, and get rid of the taxes.
Speaker A:Amen.
Speaker B:Amen.
Speaker B:So, guys, make sure to, like, share and subscribe.
Speaker B:Hit the little bell for notification.
Speaker B:Leave a five star review on all podcasting host hosts.
Speaker B:Make sure to grab your tickets for the Gun Owners Advocacy and leadership summit happening August 1st and 2nd and in beautiful Des Moines, Iowa.
Speaker B:And you've heard it here first.
Speaker B:Joe's going to shoot a full match with the YC9.
Speaker B:He can't argue because we're wrapping up the show.
Speaker B:We'll see you guys next time.
