Procrastination can feel like a superpower when you know you can pull it all together at the last minute. But what if the pressure you rely on to get things done is also part of the pattern?

I’ve definitely done this. I’ll put something off, tell myself I work better under pressure, and then somehow get it done when there’s no more room to avoid it. Vicki Smith and I got into what might actually be happening underneath that pattern.

Vicki is a therapist and coach who works with female solopreneurs around people pleasing, perfectionism, self doubt, emotional overwhelm, and the ways our nervous system can show up in business.

One of the things that really stuck with me was her explanation of procrastination as a form of flight. Sometimes we’re not simply being lazy or lacking discipline. We’re trying to get away from something that feels uncomfortable, whether that’s pressure, fear of getting it wrong, or the expectation we’ve put on ourselves.

We also talked about why some of us genuinely do work better when there’s a clear deadline. When the start and stop time is already decided, there’s less room to keep negotiating with ourselves about what we should be doing. The question becomes whether that way of working actually works for you without leaving you completely burned out afterward.

Vicki also introduced me to the idea of our different internal “parts” having their own opinions about what we’re doing. The perfectionist, the people pleaser, the procrastinator. They can all have something to say before we ever get started.

And maybe the goal isn’t to force those parts to disappear. Maybe it’s learning how to notice what’s happening, understand what we need, and give ourselves permission to work in a way that actually fits us.

That shift from “I should be doing this differently” to “What actually works for me?” felt especially important.

Resources Mentioned:

• Connect with Vicki Smith on: LinkedIn
• Vicki Smith on: Website

Work with me:

1. Lighter: finally release the weight attached to your plate www.samanthapenkoff.com/lighter
2. The Leaders Table: https://www.samanthapenkoff.com/leaders-table
3. Breakthrough Intensive: You already know you should slow down, delegate more, stop overcommitting & be emotionally present. So why can't you? That's what we figure out in 90 minutes + integration call 1 week later. Book your Breakthrough
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Welcome back to Beyond Awareness. I'm super excited for today because today we have a guest via Vicki Smith. And she is a therapist and a coach for female solopreneurs and not just any solopreneurs and women, but specifically those who get in their own way because of patterns like people pleasing and patterns of perfectionism, which I think a lot of us, a lot of listeners to this show and myself included, can relate to that.

And what Vicky helps these women with is that strong inner critic and self-doubt. And then that emotional overwhelm that keeps us playing small from time to time. And how she helps us with that is through nervous system regulation, mindfulness, and internal family systems. Welcome to the show, Vicki. I'm so excited to have you here.

Thank you. I'm excited to talk about this stuff. I can talk about it to someone sitting at a park bench. So give me a microphone and let me tell you all about this.

I love that. I hope

this feels like a park bench conversation, honestly.

Yeah.

So I know that you yourself have wrestled with your own point of view and believing what you had to say and share and teach and even coach other women in was valid, even though you had proof that you were running a successful.

business a successful private practice as a therapist for over 20 years. So I thought we could start there and have you just kind of share what that looked like, what that felt like when you were going through it.

Right. Well, it's interesting being a therapist because at least the way that I practice is you're you're sort of an island. now I was always part of consultation groups, peer consultation groups, getting supervision. So I really wanted to be around other therapists to make sure that you know, working through cases confidentially, of course, but just to not be the island so often.

Yeah.

But running a private practice, I yeah, I was I was in the beginning of 2020. Well, actually towards the end of 2019. So we didn't know what was coming yet. But I thought, you know, I think I want to shift a little bit. I think I want to do something a little bit different and do some coaching and just shake things up. And I really hadn't even thought about the fact that I was running my own business as a private practitioner.

but when I moved to doing coaching, it was mostly online because it then when the pandemic came, we were online. And I really was not prepared for how I had to sell myself, how I had to show up and have a unique point of view, all the visibility, because I was used to being in a room with one person doing deep personal work.

So it was a a big yeah, it was a big transition for me. It was a a lot of stretch, a lot of outside of my comfort zone. And I kind of lost myself. I was like, wait, you know, I've sat in consultation groups and supervision groups for my entire career and have gotten feedback from other therapists that, like, yeah, you're on the right track. yeah, I like the way you're thinking about this. But once I moved into what I felt like was completely new terrain.

I really lost my center, lost my grounding around what I believed to be helpful for people and that I was a person that could show up and offer that help. So I'll pause for a moment, but it was it was in that transition that I yeah, I lost myself.

Yeah. Do you think it was the trying something new aspect of it? And were you tempted to just say, maybe I shouldn't dive into that realm and I should stay doing what I'm doing? Or were you motivated to keep going and to to stay stretched and to try that new thing?

It definitely was being in a new place and having to have a spotlight on me and own my voice and own my approach. And also both those things happened. There is a roller coaster ride, I think, that we're on every day. And I I really didn't realize it that I was very motivated and I love learning. It's one of my growth.

I laugh. Growth is one of my values. Like I'm like, I always want to be sort of pushing the envelope for myself personally. And it was very interesting to I took a coaching certification and my therapist friends like, You don't need that. And I was like, No, I really want to honor the fact that coaching is a little different than therapy. And so I also had some imposter syndrome. So I was like, Let me learn, learn, learn. And

you know, get that certification behind me and then I'll feel better. so I was very motivated and fascinated by marketing, always been fascinated by the psychological aspects of business. And then I also thought, this is too hard. So I

Yeah.

would go back and forth with this is too hard. And then I would sleep on it. And the next morning I'd wake up and I'd be like, hmm, let's try it again. which is kind of the, you know, two steps forward, one step back that I'm

still in as a business owner and I think so many of us are, we don't want to admit it, but it's a reality.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I can definitely relate to that. Where one like I was gonna say one day this and the other day that, but you're right in that some the mornings,

Mm-hmm.

even you wake up and you're like, all right, it's a new day, I've got this, and then it's like the end of the day where you're like, no, I don't have I don't have this, I don't got it. It's too much. So

Right. Right. Right.

when you're in that, like when you're we're scattered and spinning and feeling like there's so much.

But also motivated, how did you kind of find that harmony? And I say harmony instead of balance. One of my clients said that word the other day and I

Yes.

loved it. So, like, how did you find that harmony to do all of that and build while also still having your private practice? Because you have this other thing that you still have to continue, and I'm sure like other priorities in your actual life. How did you manage to do all of that at once?

I am still learning that and I love the word harmony. I use the word rhythm because I

Mm.

have a a slight aversion to balance as well. I'm

Yeah.

still learning that in all honesty, and I'm I'm coming out right now out of a a season of probably burnout is really what I could call it. because I pushed so hard and because I

I I moved past my own signals that said, wait a second, we don't have to do everything. We don't have to be a perfect video editor and social media content creator and therapist and workshop, you know, presenter. so I'm in a new level of learning that rhythm and that harmony. I think what also yes, life was definitely throwing some curveballs in there over the past couple of years.

with an elderly mom in another state. And so that would split my time. And I think in some ways it was a gift to have to put a pause on my business, you know, for weeks at a time. and then dip my toe into real life and then come back into business. because it gave me perspective about what was truly

priority for me and then what what I am focusing on in my business and what I can fulfill because I definitely you mentioned internal family systems I definitely have a part of me that signs me up for things and doesn't check in with my capacity to follow through.

Mm.

And so I am now really showing up and trying to help those parts of me that feel

that we have to be perfect or that we have to be out there all the time to relax back a little bit and yeah, just working with myself, really practicing, doing my own program, honestly.

Mm-hmm.

the things that I share with clients, you know, finally saying to myself, do a U-turn and start to apply those, you know, those tools to your own

Yeah.

situations has really

Things that have broken up the fast moving train of business building and growing have been frustrations and inconveniences, and then on the other side have been gifts to have me pause and give me perspective. That's how I think

Yeah.

I've found some harmony.

I love that. And you mentioned IFS. And I just jotted down as you were speaking

Mm.

too. Can you since you are trained in IFS, could you explain briefly what it is? And then also, would you say that people pleasing and perfectionism and these things and the drive to want to show up in that way? Is that a part of us?

Yes. Yeah. So the way that I explain IFS and especially applicable to business is I think about we have an internal board of directors, an inner advisory council, players on a team, if you will, not necessarily an athletic team, but you know, a to a department, a team, a company inside of us.

Mm.

So

every day we are having an inner meeting with these different aspects of ourselves, these different perspectives and voices that show up to the meeting. I like to think about it as let's say we have a project, like record a podcast. And so we put that in the middle of the boardroom table, and all of our different parts that show up to this meeting will have something to say about recording a podcast.

or showing up on social media or sending an email. And the perfectionist is one viewpoint. It sits at one part of the table and sees that task or that project from its own angle, its own experiences of not wanting to fail or not wanting to be judged. And so it will bring its perspective to how to approach that particular task in the meeting.

the people pleaser will show up and say, you know, from its, you know, vantage point at the other side of the table, it will say, but I see it this way. so you might have procrastination show up and say, wait, wait, wait, I think we're not ready yet. Let's just stop everything and go eat an ice cream cone. You know,

Mm hmm.

we've got all these different parts of us that work together, if you will.

But also not don't really know how to work together. They kind of are like, I'm gonna throw another analogy in there. I'm a I'm an analogy person, is sort

Mm-hmm.

of like an orchestra and everybody tunes their instrument before they start. And it sounds like chaos

Yeah.

until the conductor shows up. And so yes, those are parts. And the conductor is actually what

Internal family systems calls self-energy. and so there is another part of us that can show up that has different qualities that will lead that meeting in a more effective way and help those parts step into the roles that they know how to play and not overstep and

Mm-hmm.

kind of derail a project.

I love the analogies. And when you were, I love the orchestra when I played the violin from third grade all

Mm.

the way through my senior year of high school. And so yeah, it is not a good sound when we're all tuning our instruments.

Gosh.

And I also pictured Inside Out for another analogy.

If you know, like when all the

Yes, that's it.

emotions are at that table.

Mm-hmm.

so for me, when you're explaining when

the people pleaser shows up and they they say, well, let's let's hold off on this, and even relating it specifically to podcast episodes. back last year, I was heavy into really wanting to deliver the exact episode that I thought my listener would want. And so I was doing research

Mm-hmm.

and asking AI and all the things on what would my ideal listener and my current listeners based on stats

What types of episodes are they Googling? What what does she want to hear? And I was getting so

Right.

strategic about it. And it led me to procrastinate. It led me to really not enjoy

Mm-hmm.

recording. And now I finally had a breakthrough in December. Cause I was like, I hate this. I hate the feeling that it's giving me, even though I still love my

Right.

podcast. And I'm like, I felt this like.

argument, if you will, at this table. And so

Mm.

would you say that like the job, if you will, is to not just like have that feeling, but be able to understand, like not understand, separate it. Because I didn't really think of that as the people pleaser, but that's what it is, right? I was trying to please my audience instead of choosing myself and what I wanted to record in that

Yes. And I'm glad that you can use the word separate. We use the word unblend or unmerge from

Mm.

a part. It's there are basically two things in IFS work and parts work. It is unblend and befriend. And it's fantastic that they rhyme. So

I like that.

yes, you want to unblend from it. You want to begin to learn that when I

start to think this way or even feel this way emotionally or feel this way body sensation-wise, that is a clue to me that I am merged with a part. And you begin to map out, like when I work with people, that one of the first things I do is help them map out their system so we know who's sitting around that table and who's the loudest. And a lot of us start with the inner critic.

But yes, for women, especially, people pleasing is right up there with perfectionism and making sure everything is right, making sure everyone's taken care of, everyone's happy, everyone gets what they want, no one is upset, or at least if they're upset, it's just a teeny teeny bit, and we can, you know, make sure that they're okay the next time. so there's a lot of internal emotions and thoughts and body sensations that go with parts and

learning those begins to let us know, okay, I've blended with this particular part's way of seeing this situation or this relationship. And I can unblend, I know, you know, after doing some parts work and nervous system regulation work, mindfulness work, they're all baked into IFS parts work. After doing some of that work.

with a professional, I know how to help myself step out of that and really talk to myself and talk myself through stuck points that got me there in the first place.

So you mentioned through nervous system work, and it made me think of this question. I think it's kind of easy for us business owners to notice imposter syndrome that you mentioned earlier and that self-doubt and those bigger emotions. But how can someone tell if their nervous system is running their business more than just like those quick moments of, ooh, this.

you know, speaking engagement opportunity, that makes me feel imposter syndrome. But how can someone tell if

Yeah.

that nervous system is actually driving more than just those single opportunities?

so my the nervous system, at least in my algorithm, is blowing up, right? People are talking about it a lot and I love it. And also I'm like a little bit nervous that sometimes it's it's not easy to hack a nervous system state

Mm-hmm.

that you find yourself in. But when I help my clients through this, we do talk about the different states in the nervous system fight, flight, sympathetic nervous system.

freeze. and I use polyvagal as my way of polyvagal therapy and theory to explain it. But moving from a fight or flight to a more freeze state, like those seem to be the three that are pretty easy to understand once you start asking yourself some questions and kind of observing and practicing some awareness.

one of the best ways I've heard this described, and I wish I would have come up with this, but I didn't, is when you were looking at your day and you're saying to yourself, I need to, but I can't. I want to do this, but I can't. You might have some brain fog. You might be really scattered in your brain, like

Shut down brain fog, right? Can't think, can't really focus, or you might be scattered and kind of pinging from thing to thing to thing. So you know that there's something that needs your attention, but you can't quite land and then, you know, get into it, even for 20, 30 minutes at a time. that's one way to know that you're sort of in that freeze place.

Fight or flight is procrastination is a a great way to know that you are kind of in flight mode and you're trying

Mm-hmm.

to put things off and avoid things. you just keep finding different things to do that are maybe easier to get a quick win from. and fighting is also kind of a just a I call it like an itchy scratchy feeling inside of like

I have to do this. I'm making myself do it. I'm kind of pushing myself to do it. I'm bearing down. I'm tight in my body. and it's not easy, you know, if I have to write an email to my email list and it's just not flowing. But I'm I'm like, gotta happen. It's gotta happen today. I've put it off for, you know, four days already. And I'm just kind of harsh with myself and tight.

Mm-hmm.

those are ways that we can usually find fight, flight, or freeze and how they show up for kind of derailing our our goals.

Mm-hmm. I never thought of procrastination as flight. I don't know what I would have labeled it as. I feel kind

Hm, mm.

of a little bit called out that it's like escaping, but I really, that is what it is. And I've experienced this and I've had my clients say this. I'm curious what your reaction is or what you would say to this type of person, but this is so consistent with women that I talk to. They say.

That procrastination is their superpower. And the example that they

Huh.

almost always give is how they, let's say they have an upcoming meeting and they want to prepare for it a few days in advance, but they don't. They procrastinate until it's

Mm-hmm.

like the day of the meeting. And then this is where they feel like it's their superpower because they can just bang it out and in like,

you know, 30 minutes or something, they have the full outline or the full notes or whatever it might be. And so they're like, wow, I feel

Right.

great. It makes them feel good. And so they are almost like, This is great. This

Right.

is my superpower. Even though they wanted to do it three days ago.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know,

Do you hear that often?

I I hear I hear a lot of perfectionism and it kind of has its opposite in procrastination that tries to stop perfectionism from just going, going, going, going into more rabbit holes. But I ha

Mm.

I do work with the procrastination piece too. And myself, you know, I mean, my hand is up for this one to yeah, I'm in this too. And I think I'll

You know, some people can say, like, I work better under pressure. And that that sort of is that day of preparation. And what I think happens for that is there's a focus. There's it there is a have to, there's a pressure, but it is also there is a time limit here. And I can't there is no, you know, time creep allowed. because

As a, at least as a solopreneur and the women that I mostly work with, we are the ones building our own schedule and we're the ones having to keep ourselves accountable. So it's super easy to put something else in front of that thing that feels uncomfortable. But if we had, like one of my clients likes to body double, I'm not necessarily I don't do great with body doubling. I would rather talk to the person if they're sitting there, you know.

Mm.

but I think

For some of us, when we know that there is a time, somebody is watching us, there is accountability, there is a start and there's a stop time, then it offers us kind of a a relief. Like we don't have to put our own accountability onto ourselves. We just know this has to be done by 330.

Mm-hmm.

I have something that's due today that I couldn't get to.

Actually, it's due tomorrow. I couldn't get to until yesterday afternoon. And I banged it out. And I'm gonna tweak it today before I send it to the person. But I don't know that I could have planned, you know, a couple of hours, which is all I needed yesterday to do this, before yesterday, because

Mm.

I just knew that it would help me if I had that start and stop.

the clear time boundaries would would keep me on track.

Mm-hmm.

so I do think for some of us it is I was never a person that did a project, you know, early in the semester. I

Mm-hmm.

waited until the week of. I think for some of us it is just that clear boundaries around what needs to be done and when it needs to be done. And it is

the structure that we don't have to put into place is put into place for us and then we can, you know, kind of feel safe enough to to get it done and just focus and deprioritize everything else.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. And also maybe just being honest with ourselves and I same. Like I was never the person to work on projects early. And I almost feel like once

Mm-hmm.

you're leading a business, we feel like we should, like we should get ahead. We should prep for that meeting

Yeah.

a few days in advance. And it's like maybe we just need to think that it's okay to not do that. Like it's okay to prep for the meeting the same day. But and

I think the follow up is trusting that we actually will. Like you said, those clear time constraints. Like if that is your superpower, you'll actually stick to it without saying you're gonna

Yeah.

do it three days before.

Right. Right. You know yourself and you know that's when that's how you work. As long as it doesn't keep burning you out like afterwards, right? If you don't crash afterwards.

Yeah, I love that. That's a great tip.

Yeah, I often

so I wanted to ask you, what is one small, if you can narrow it down to one, a small internal shift that makes a big difference that you've seen with with anything that we've talked about, with something with the nervous system, like the fight, flight, or freeze, or something with like people pleasing perfectionism, the IFS stuff. Is there anything small and tangible that you could give us that is a would make

shift for us when we try it.

I'm gonna use what you just said actually and put the name mindful self-compassion on it. And what you were talking about is like maybe we just give ourselves permission to prepare the day of. when you said that, it made me relax a little because I was like, yeah, what if that is okay? Well, what if it's not wrong?

Right.

And so I really want to build on that and just say the the self-compassion piece, you know, I've been in the meditation world for a while and I still don't really love being kind to myself as a recovering people pleaser. I can be kind to anybody else and I know that I can overdo it, but being kind to me is still.

There's a couple hurdles in front of me to get there. But if you just allow some of what, like how you work best, if you if you learn how you work best and you take comparison out of it for as much as you can, because I know it's hard, and just allow yourself to do follow the rhythm, follow, you know, create the harmony that works best.

For you, and you don't put a lot of shoulds onto it, you're being kind to yourself. And I think it helps. It I don't think it helps. I know it helps. When I heard you say that and I had that relaxation inside, there's only a positive ripple effect from having that relaxation inside as you move forward and

engage with whatever you have to engage with, whether it's a project, whether it's a conversation, whether it's a you know, a take, you know, reminding yourself to take a break or fixing yourself a food, you know, just having that little bit of space inside to go, I'm all right. This is okay. This is okay for

Yeah.

me to do.

I love that because I think a lot of people are seeking that space. And that permission creates so much of it when you're saying,

Yeah.

I don't need to prepare three days in advance or whatever that that expectation previously was. And I love

Right.

those steps too of like learning how you work best, take comparison out of it, like all those shoulds that you mentioned earlier, too. And then

You know, taking action, following through on yourself, on what you said you were gonna do, that w is what will create the space that so

Mm-hmm.

many of us seek and then we create it and we don't know what we're gonna do with it, but this is what we can do with that little time block at least. So good.

Yeah.

So I know that you have a quiz and I am a quiz girly all the way. So can you tell us a little bit about what your quiz is about and where we can go take it?

Sure. well the name of the quiz is why can't I get everything done? because I think that is what so many of us are dealing with right now. I I have a ton of things to do and I keep getting in my own way. So it looks at the three different ways that we get in our own way overthinking, spiraling, and stalling. And I kind of attribute it to overthinking is the mental way that we get in our own way, spiraling is the emotional, and stalling is

the behavioral. and maybe that's just the therapist to me having this whole like background philosophy theory coming towards you.

Mm-hmm.

but really it's figuring out which one is derailing you the most. And you know, I've taken my fair share of quizzes too. I love them. And usually at the end I'm like, this is the result you're telling me, like this is the information you give me.

So I just want you to know that my perfectionist had a little bit to do with the results page on these. And I do give you a lot more than you might have gotten from other people. so, and then there's a little offer for you if you want to go further into it. yeah, and get some actual tools to help you around these. But yeah, that's it. Spiraling,

Amazing.

stalling, and overthinking. Which one is it?

Honestly, I'm like, my gosh, I think all of them. So I'm curious, I'm gonna take it and see which one is the most

Yeah, yeah, mine is overthinking. I can tell you that right away. So

Mm.

Yeah, they they all resonate. So awesome. I'll put the link for that. You can send me the link and I'll pop it in the show notes for anyone else who wants to take it.

Okay.

And lastly, where can that people, all of the listeners, go find you if they want to learn more about you or learn about working with you?

Yeah, sure. Well, my website is called Self Led CEO. That is from the internal family systems world. And so join, you know, go to the website if you want to hop on the email list and try out a couple emails from me and see if I'm helpful. I talk about this stuff all the time and give, you know, very interesting analogies and personal commentary too. and I'm

on LinkedIn as well. And the end of the year I have a big goal of starting my YouTube channel. So I'm excited for twenty twenty seven with that.

So very cool. Well, thank you so much, Vicki. This was insightful. And I love I am a love having deep conversations and getting to the root of the actual people pleasing stuff and whatever the patterns are, not just surface

Mm-hmm.

level. And that's exactly what we did. So I appreciate your expertise and your analogies too. I loved, I loved all of them. So thank you for being here today.

Thank you for having me. I love your show and I remember listening and you talking about parts and I was like, who is this person? And what is she doing? And I need to know more. So I'm glad that we finally got a chance to talk together.

Yes, me too. Thanks again. And thank you for listening, everyone. Feel free to share this episode with someone who has a part that you heard today or who might just need to hear one of the analogies or take the quiz. Thanks for listening and I will see you guys next week.