Empowering Women in AI: Verena Weber on Diversity, Leadership, and Innovation

Episode 14 • 14th August 2024 • Women WithAI • Futurehand Media

Joanna Shilton (Host)

Well, let's do the whole thing again. There we go. It's much better, right. Hello and welcome to women with ai. Today, I have the great pleasure of introducing you to a chief AI officer on demand who's recently started a newsletter called Women in AI, so I'm super excited to hear all her insights today on what it's like to be a woman working in AI. Her, Verena Weber, leverages generative AI in natural language to elevate business competitiveness and navigate its transformative impact. Her varied experience in multiple roles and sectors underpins her ability to extract business value from AI, blending deep technical expertise with strong business acumen. Post-graduation, she consulted in data science at Deloitte and then advanced her skills in natural language programming, deep learning and generative AI as a research scientist for the Alexa team at Amazon. Passionate about gender diversity in tech, Verena coaches women to thrive in this field. Verena Weber welcome to Women With AI.

03:37 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Hi Jo, thanks for having me.

03:39 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

It's great to have you here, thank you. Perhaps for anyone that's listening that doesn't know you yet, maybe you could introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your journey into AI and why you started this really important newsletter.

03:52 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Yeah, sure. So let me start with my journey into AI. Yeah, like you said, my name is Verena. I've been working in the field for over seven years now - almost eight, so long before this whole AI hype started actually and originally I was studying statistics, so classical statistics, After graduating from university. During my studies basically, um did some courses on data science, machine learning and really like that - much better than classical statistics because it was a little bit more like trial and error instead of, you know, in- in statistics you have a lot of assumptions and only if these assumptions hold then you can really work with, with the methodologies, whereas AI is a little bit more okay you get the data, you try some things, you see if it works, and that is what I enjoyed more. So I decided to make that a career and then basically started working as a consultant at Deloitte and then switched to some other companies before then joining Amazon as a research scientist for natural language processing, so really specialising in this field of teaching a computer how to understand natural language, and then last year basically left Amazon and started to be a self-employed consultant for AI and now I'm really helping companies to navigate this whole AI journey. So from the very beginning of - how do we get started? What are potential use cases that make sense for us to use AI for through to then really implementation?

05:44 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

And I know that, being a woman in tech, you're obviously passionate about advancing gender diversity in the industry, and so I'm just thrilled that you've decided to support women in tech by sharing your own learnings. And what advice do you give for navigating this male? It's quite a male dominated environment, so yeah, what does it feel like Exactly?

06:05 - Verena Weber (Guest)

It's quite a male dominated, environmentinated environment. So, yeah, what does it feel like exactly? It's quite a male-dominated environment, and- and that comes with certain challenges, and- and that also brings me back to that second question that you asked me, or second part of the first question, about why I started the newsletter. Um, yeah, so, basically, last year in March, I read a study that blew my mind, right, did you know that 50% of women leave the tech industry at the midpoint of their career and they're walking away from everything that they've built and starting over.

06:35

It's really, really surprising and, yeah, I was really baffled, but at the same time, I was also a little bit relieved, you know, because it was the sense of okay, I kind of get it, you know, because, as a woman in tech, I could understand this frustration and this exhaustion, right, this experience of, you know, having to prove yourself over and over again because of your gender, which can be quite exhausting.

07:12

So that is why I decided, okay, I need to do something. I want to create a community. I want women to support each other through this. I want women to support each other through this, because, also, this feeling of isolation and being alone right, because oftentimes you don't have a lot of female colleagues or you don't have any female colleagues at all really makes it hard. So, yeah, now I'm writing this newsletter to share my learnings, to hopefully create a supporting community for other women in tech, and I also coach women and help them stay in the career, but in a way that first makes them feel like they're getting rewarded for their hard work and talent and second, also in a way that they can prioritise their own well-being.

08:06 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

So what? Because when you first said that stat, I was thinking oh, you probably mean because they left to have children or something you know, and but it's not that. So it's just leaving because they just can't take it anymore. Not in a- in a- because it's difficult, but because it is so male dominated and it's so much pressure. That's terrible.

08:24 - Verena Weber (Guest)

I think there's several levels to it, right. So I think one point is they feel like they're not getting ahead, right. They feel like their hard work is not being rewarded, they're not getting the promotions that that they should, um, but then also, I think, other other another component is that they're not being supported in delivering the best work that they could in a way that works for them and also so basically not working in a flexible way. So that is then not any longer not working in a flexible way, so- so that is then not any longer um, so you can basically, it's harder, it gets harder to combine your personal life with your career. I think that does play a role, um, and then I think they're just tired of the energy that it takes to really get ahead in this industry sometimes.

09:23 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Yeah, I think it's a very real issue and it's not, it's not just this industry. I was speaking to a doctor, uh, sarah morgan, last last well, one of the previous episodes and um, she was saying that quite often research papers you know, in the medical field, if it's what's perceived to be a man's name is on, it is often more well respected, even if it's exactly the same as something that has been written by a woman. And it's just that's what you're up against all the time as a woman, you know, in kind of like many industries. So it's A hundred percent, yeah, yeah, it's a little bit soul-destroying. So what are you?

09:59 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Yeah, and it is very draining. It takes a lot of energy to run against these walls and barriers and misconceptions and judgments and, yeah, microaggressions. I, yeah, I think, yeah. I recently read about a woman and she shared her story about wanting to get her book published and she sent it out to I don't know how many different publishers and never got back a response. And then, just for fun, she switched the name to a male name and she got replies with the same, with the same manuscript, right, yeah, that's outrageous.

10:37 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

I think that's what JK Rowling did, isn't it? You know, the author of Harry Potter. She deliberately didn't say that her name was Joanne and just went with the JK so that it would get picked up and no one knew if it was a male or a female author. I mean, because that's all the- the stuff that I've been learning about, because, you know, I'm new to kind of learning about AI as well, as I think many of my audience probably are as well and it's that bias.

11:00

It's that kind of intrinsic bias that's already there that we're sort of fighting against, because you mentioned about working flexibly and that kind of thing, because obviously some women do have children and decide to kind of, you know, put a pause on their careers or do something. And I think a lot of the talk at the moment is AI just makes it so much easier to work from home. It's going to save time, it's going to do this, that and the other, but obviously, if you're actually there at the forefront and helping to create AI, you're not getting the support as a woman that you need. So what kind of learnings are you sharing with people? You know- what is your advice?

11:33 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Yeah, yeah, I mean, of course you know these are systemic things, that we can only change them gradually and slowly, but there's things that we can do to first take care of ourselves and make sure our energy doesn't get too depleted throughout the process, but then also a little bit learning how the rules work in these male-dominated environments. Because I think one of the main issues that women have, or one of the main problems, I see and it was the same when I started out right, you, you come in, you think, okay, you do good work and you get rewarded for it, but that's not how it works. You have to be way more proactive about advocating for yourselves, for sharing and promoting your achievements, being very persistent in asking for promotions, asking for salary raises, asking for stretch projects and this may not mean that you say it once, maybe you just, you know, have to go to your manager's door or whoever it is, and say it a couple of times. And it's actually interesting, you know, there's these managers who then share the other side of the story where they say you know, I have men coming into my office almost every day, let's say every week, whatever it is just asking for that promotion and that salary increase, whereas women don't show up at all or just show up once. Right, and that's what you're up against, yeah, so you. So you have to increase your visibility and you have to kind of learn these rules that you know. Men not each and every one, but let's say the majority play by yeah, you're right, I think it's.

13:20 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

You know it's. It is a man's world, you know, and we have to become players, you know, and it's not like well, you know, we can still retain our femininity and be female about it. But you're right, I think we need to just be reminded that that isn't how you get ahead, because I've done it in jobs as well and I've seen other female colleagues do it. Where you sit and you do the work, you think, well, someone will recognize it, someone will. Surely they'll just know that I'm amazing and that I deserve this promotion.

13:44

But no, you're right, you have to have the balls to go up and like, knock on that door and say, can I have a few moments of your time? And then you know you have to. You know, even if you write it down and practise it, and I've done that in like my first role. I remember it was a sales role and it was very male dominated and I realised pretty quickly that if I wanted to sort of play with all the big boys, I would have to go and say ‘can I have a pay rise?’ You know, I feel like I should be remunerated for all the work I'm doing and I think it's brilliant that you're doing this newsletter to inspire women, because it is something that isn't taught.

14:17 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Yeah, and the other thing is right, women, on average, tend to be less confident, and they tend to be less confident in their abilities, but then also in their achievements, right? I think what I've seen a lot is that men achieve something, they do something, and they're very proud of what they did and they maybe even inflate the impact that it had, or they go around talking about the impact all the time, maybe even organically, naturally. But then women, they don't. They sometimes even downplay their achievements, right?

14:55 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

I think, yeah, we're told to - ‘don't show off’, don't you know exactly?

15:00 - Verena Weber (Guest)

yeah, yeah, don't stand out, just be quiet exactly exactly, and there's this, I mean Sheryl Sandberg in her book ‘Lean In’, says, like for- like - For men, actually, success and popularity are positively correlated, whereas for women it's negatively correlated. So I think women have to overcome this kind of- maybe fear that being successful might mean they're not being liked, or, yeah, exactly, that's kind of they're taught to be quiet and not stand out and this, yeah, you basically have to lose those behavioural patterns and adopt new ones.

15:41 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Yeah, because I've seen it as well. I've talked with friends here about applying for jobs and this kind of thing and I think it is a I don't know if it's a stat or if I'm making it up but say there's a job description and there's five things that you need to be good at, and a man I'm just saying totally generalising, but most men would look and go, wow, I can do two of those things I'm going to apply, Whereas a woman would be like, oh my God, well, I can only do like four and a half of those.

16:16 - Verena Weber (Guest)

I don't, you know, heard you talk about a um, a quote that you had. Uh, yeah, yeah, I. I think that what you meant was this, also from Sheryl Sandberg right, yes, men are promoted based on potential, whereas women are promoted based on achievements.

16:27 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Yeah, that was it, yeah. So it's almost like we have to prove ourselves first before we'll be recognized, and then someone probably still say or did yeah, did you really do that yourself?

16:36 - Verena Weber (Guest)

and we have to start standing up for ourselves, say yes, exactly, exactly. And yeah, this is tiring because you have to do it over and over again, and I think there was I don't know if who said it or if it's an actual quote, but like this saying of men are assumed to be competent and women have to prove that they're competent again yeah this is what we're up against.

17:02 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

I read something as well. It was about, and when, um, uh, what was it? It was in America, um, running for president, and it's um, oh my goodness, what's her name? It's completely gone out of my mind - the wife of the ex-president. Who is it that was up against you?

17:21 - Verena Weber (Guest)

you mean Hillary Clinton. Who is it?

17:25 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Sorry, Hillary Clinton, Hillary Clinton, that's it. Oh, my goodness, yeah, Hillary Clinton. And they were saying, wow, she's very ambitious, isn't she? You know, like wanting to be president, and it's like, well, yes, if you want to be president, you need to be ambitious. So why is that a bad thing for a woman to be when, yeah, it's fine for Trump to be ambitious, to want to be president?

17:53 - Verena Weber (Guest)

But oh, no, no, no, no, woman can't be ambitious, she's just yeah, she should already yeah. And I think it's very helpful to be aware of these prejudices and unconscious biases that you're up against, right? Because I mean, if you know that people don't necessarily associate you with competence, being competent or whatever right, then you even need to be more proactive to show that you're competent yeah, definitely.

18:13 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

So this is where your coaching comes in. I'm guessing, and do you do? Is it one-to-one coaching, or do you do..? How does it work?

18:19 - Verena Weber (Guest)

It's one-to-one coaching and it has well, I mean, one of it is definitely um, being more strategic about your career growth and how do you, how do you, make sure that you're getting the visibility that you need? But it and and what are ways of communicating that feel natural to me and don't necessarily feel like I'm being really inauthentic here, but still making sure that you're communicating your value and where you're adding value. But then it also looks at your habits and routines. So basically supporting you through your normal work days, making sure you're not overextending yourself, making sure you can keep your energy up, because it is sometimes very depleting to fight against these prejudices. And what I see is that often women, because they're up against this, right, and they start to overextend themselves and then they become burnt out or their energy gets really depleted. And I mean what I always say is you have to think about it in the long run, right, maybe you can do this for a certain period of time, but it's not a sprint, it's a marathon.

So we also look at habits and routines that support you throughout your entire career and also do some work with the body and the breath, because I think also limiting beliefs is something that women often, yeah well, are very much ingrained in them, right, and imposter syndrome and all these things, and I totally I mean, I was there too and I think one thing is understanding it on a mental level, right that, identifying those beliefs and also understanding imposter syndrome those beliefs and also an understanding imposter syndrome but then to really overcome it, or at least I mean, at least improve, improve it, right, you, you need to be able to feel it in your body, you need to embody this new confidence, you need to embody a new belief, and it's not just a mental thing, yeah, so I think there was a course that was run at one of my uh companies I worked for, and it's not just a mental thing.

20:30 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Yeah. So I think there was a course that was run at one of my companies I worked for and it was about sort of women empowering women in business, and one of the things they said was about the superhero stance or like that kind of- like, standing with your hands - you know - on your hips and kind of- just really kind of, you know, believing in it. So, yeah, I totally, 100% agree that it's the whole body and mind ethos that we need to embrace. I mean, because a lot of the sort of chat around it is, oh, you need to get women into STEM and we need to get women into tech and get women into AI. But I think it's really interesting that you're saying you know and I'm hearing this- there are a lot of women in it. But you're right, it's the retaining them, and I have until now thought that everyone's just leaving because they're having kids, not just because they're like, oh my God, I can't.

21:22

This is why we need more women, so we can all support each other Exactly.

21:24 - Verena Weber (Guest)

And I mean I'm not saying, you know, I think some women leave because they're having kids and they feel like, okay, okay, ‘I can't sustain this level of of commitment and energy that it takes to put into the job while raising a family’ or ‘I'm not giving the flexibility that I need right to to work and have a family’, but I - yeah, it's not the only level that is to that it's definitely a disillusionment that that happens at some point because I'm just thinking back to when you said you started you're looking at statistics and that kind of thing, because it's that sort of data, and isn't it?

22:01 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

I mean, it's only as good as what you, what you've put in and what you get out, but it's kind of that is what is, you know, progressing, all the bias that already exists in it because of the kind of lack of data that even involves women. That's the other thing that I'm finding. You know that women haven't been involved in medical studies or that if it is, men that are at the top of the tree. I mean, it's like when the Apple Watch was first released, and it was, you know, the big demonstration and the big reveal, and it measures everything about your body. It mentions your heart rate and you know how many times you breathe. It will take a breath, you know when you're asleep, when you're awake, and all these things, and it's amazing, amazing. It'll track you when you're running and all this. And then one of the women in the audience said, oh, does it track your menstrual cycle? And they're like, oh, no, I didn't think about that and it's like what?

it's like you're selling, you're not just selling it to men - You're saying it tracks everything, but it doesn't. So it's kind of like we need women to stay in tech and stay at the top or get to the top and be the decision makers.

22:59 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Yeah, exactly, and we have this everywhere, right? I mean, I just recently learned that those devices, apparently how they calculate their heart rate variability, is something that is different for women, but they just use the algorithm for men and we and it's. It will be the same thing with AI, right? If we don't have women at the forefront, helping to develop these technologies, then we again will be left out of the picture, and already now I can see how women are far more likely to engage in, you know, discussions about ethical requirements or bias or you know, also looking at this bigger picture of society.

23:46

Usually, if you look at AI governance researchers, you find more females there, right? Look at AI governance researchers, you find more females there, right? So I think women often take very different and important aspects into account that men don't necessarily think about. So it's yeah, it's really, it's not only a nice to have women in here. It's really essential to not perpetuate this even further, perpetuate this bias.

24:17 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Because I read something about. It was women in politics and it was saying how you need to have an equal mix, because when there aren't as many women involved, then things like funding for childcare and education and health goes down because the, the male politicians or whoever's in charge, aren't thinking about those things. So you need to have a kind of like a 50 50 split, because as soon as you you know the statistics there I haven't, I don't know, I'll try and find some links, put them in the show notes if I can find them but when the women are back up and it's more level, then the kind of spending is is more equal and more things get considered, because there are things that just naturally, you know, do fall into sort of like - not a remit, but kind of what people feel they're more responsible for. Um, and also and I think what you're saying about standing up for ourselves and actually talking about it and making a change I mean, this is something else - I was with my sister the other day and my brother-in-law, we'd gone to an event and we thought, right, let's all go to the toilet, and so of course, my brother-in-law is in and out, me and my sister waiting, waiting, waiting. The queue is so long and I said this is another thing that we never- we don’t complain about - or we don’t talk about, we’ve just put up with the fact that, oh- they’ve decided that you should have an equal amount of cubicle- or an equal amount of space for male and female toilets, but women take longer and we go in a cubicle - we can't stand up. So we, we need more space, we need more cubicles, but we're always just, we just wait - like why aren't, why isn't there a big campaign? I mean, maybe there is. If there is, someone tell me, I'm gonna sign it. But you know all these planning officers and whether they're, you know, I'm betting they're probably male, thinking well, it will just make it equal. No, like equal. Equal doesn't necessarily mean fair- yeah, exactly, then you know why do we? But we just put up with it because we're used to it. So, oh well, that always, you know, we always have to queue, and it's just like there must be something that someone can do, or the next time someone you know builds a shopping mall please put in more ladies toilets,.

26:26 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Yeah, and that's the next thing, right, I think women are socialised not to really express their needs and be very vocal about what they need, and and that's something we have to learn yeah, not to. Yeah, yeah, we need to complain.

We're told not to, but we need to start, yeah, and I mean, maybe not complain you know, because ‘complain’ is like the negative connotative word, but just be vocal about what we need and stand up for it, because, like you said, it's not it's. I'm not saying there's bad intention, right, no, it's just guys, men, whoever - they're not aware, right? Yeah?

26:50 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

I mean, why would they be? Yeah, exactly.

26:52 - Verena Weber (Guest)

I mean. One thing that I've um- also, you know, um- kind of read about in the last couple weeks is like, how you can sync your work with your cycle. And that's not something men aren’t aware about, right, and- and I even wasn't until very recently, because it's not something that gets talked about that much. So I think it's really just a lack of awareness and not necessarily bad intent. So we just need to create that awareness and stand up for what we need. And then I'm sure there's a lot of men and allies who are willing to help.

27:28 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Definitely, I hope there are, hopefully they're listening to this and I wondered have you got any advice about using AI tools? I mean something like ChatGPT for instance, because that's one of the examples that, like we were saying about, if you, you know, have a male name or a female name, it reacts differently, but only because it's going on all the data that's being fed into it already. So how do you do you, do you have any advice for using tools like that?

27:55 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Yes, I mean in general. It's just being aware that those models have bias and then thinking about how you can make sure that you get the most, let's say, unbiased view out of it. So this can be, for example, being very specific in the prompt saying bit. So this can be, for example, being very specific in the prompt saying you know, instead of saying give me the advantages of X over Y, just say give me pros and cons for X and Y. So already encouraging this unbiased view when you prompt, and then, of course, also looking at the output and checking okay, does this sound unbiased? Is there maybe a perspective--missing? And if so, you can just specifically- specifically ask for that perspective again. Or, if you feel like you're not getting an unbiased answer, just, you know, use google, use other sources, and - I think the key point really is not just blindly relying on AI, but really using it with caution and using it as something that you still need to question.

29:01 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Yeah, definitely, and that's- That's something that I haven't ever really thought about, because I use chat, gpt, and I use it and I ask it questions, I help it do things, and quite often I'll think, oh no, that isn't right, but I'm probably not giving it the feedback that I have. So sometimes you're like the thumbs up or the thumbs down or I say, well, actually, can you rewrite it again? Can you make it a little bit more this or that? so I guess that's probably a really important takeaway.

Verena Weber

Exactly - and really give it feedback, like very specific feedback, like I think this point here is not fair or unbiased. Could you elaborate on it again, taking this and this into account?

29:36 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

right, yeah, that's a really yeah, I'm gonna start doing that so it's.

Verena Weber

You can treat it like, like a human, basically giving it feedback in that regard

Joanna Shilton

exactly because it's almost like I've had people say on the show before it's like, it's like having an intern, it's just like having an intern you know it's not quite right. So then you just, you take it and you do it yourself. But I think the trouble is, you take it and you do it yourself in a word document, or you do it, you know somewhere else and you're not actually going. Oh, actually, maybe we need to go back and go. Well, actually, this was the final article.

30:05 - Verena Weber (Guest)

This was the finished yeah, but even for the intern right. It would be so much better for the intern if you gave him or her feedback so they could improve.

30:13 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Yeah and it's the same for them. All right's so helpful. I never even thought about that before. Oh yes, I was just thinking about being masculine and feminine, or being more this or more that, and I think I know that we have spoken before about Mo Gorda, and we've both read the book Scary Smart, because he talks a lot about empowering women to become more masculine, but also encouraging men to embrace their feminine ways. So I mean, do you think that? Yeah, is that something that's possible? How can we do that?

30:51 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Yeah, I think that's something that's necessary. I think what he'd I mean was what he also says is we're living in a world of hyper-masculinity, so that means we're putting too much importance on the masculine qualities those are basically logic, analytical thinking, planning, being strategic whereas we're completely devaluing and neglecting the feminine qualities, like intuition, creativity and just being. It's always just doing, which is masculine. And what he says right, I mean feminine and masculine qualities are independent of gender. Each of us has both. And he says - and I totally agree right, we need more feminine qualities in this world. And what we do right now is by empowering women is like teaching them how to be more in their masculine.

31:45

And I think that is also - I can imagine one of the reasons why some women leave because it becomes inauthentic at some point. Right, you're trying to be someone you are not and you're getting out of balance to be someone you are not and you're getting out of balance. And he rightly says that we- we do need more um- intuition. We need more feminine leadership. Right, we need to be and not just do. We need to think about the consequences of our actions, about, um- you know, also ethical and societal consequences, and not just do and do and do and basically just see profits or whatever it may be, and I think that is a very important point, and when I heard him say that, it described very well of how I felt and I could definitely also see that imbalance in me - right? That you're being in this male dominated environment. Basically success is equated with being masculine and you get out of balance over time and that's really draining and it's also not what the world needs right now. We need some counterbalance to that and I like that. Actually. Now, when we look at new leadership, right, it's, it's a lot about emotional intelligence, empathy. Um, how do you deal with emotions at work? And this is exactly you know being more in your feminine qualities.

33:19 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Yeah, definitely. It’s being able to yeah, to see what was he going to say. So it's not, you don't have to ‘act like a man’, as you say. It's just like embracing the more masculine side of actually pushing yourself forward and asking for that promotion and asking for that pay rise.

33:21 - Verena Weber (Guest)

yes, but at the same time also making sure that you can bring your feminine qualities to work and basically see that difference as a strength and find an environment where this kind of being different or approaching things differently is being seen as a strength instead of a weakness, and that's. That's not something only for women, right? I? Even men suffer from that, like. I think there's a lot of men out there who'd like to be a little bit more feminine and who are suffering from this hyper masculinity too.

34:03 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Yeah, that they feel that that's how they have to behave, instead of being more nurturing. It's-

34:07 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Exactly, and you know, um, I do a lot of yoga, I love yoga, and I went to an event last weekend and it was men and women and then we had like a men's circle and a women's circle and it was really interesting to see how many men were really relieved that they finally found other men to talk about their feelings with, because that's not what men usually do or what every man is open with right? Open to do. So I think for them it's also not easy.

34:38 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Nice, because I go to a dance class and there's- there's three guys in it and I had a male friend who went, oh, you do the dance class, or, but there's no men. I was like, well, actually no, there are, there's three. And one of the guys actually like, takes the class. Sometimes you know he's actually done the- the course to do it and it's like ‘you should come along’. And then you know a few more men have joined and you're right, they seem to love it, just to- it's- yeah, it's a free start - sounds like, a bit crazy, but it's not, you're just dancing to pop music. But it's a really fun class and it is nice to see that it you know trying to get more of an equal mix and um-

35:08 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Yeah, and they also get a lot of out of a lot out of it, right and and sometimes if there's only women, then they feel uncomfortable to join and yeah, yeah, that one is a mix.

35:24 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

And a friend reminded me the other day that he said he'd listened to one of my previous podcasts and he said it was a really good point you made about trying to be a mother to AI instead of a father. Because it's, you're right, sometimes it's, you know, the kind of father figure is like pushing and pushing and pushing. I mean this is totally generalising, but it's, you know, the kind of father figure is like pushing and pushing and pushing. I mean this is totally generalising, but it's, you know, it's the mom that's giving a hug and it's the mom that's like saying, well, no, come on, put yourself up and you can do it again. And I think that's what we need to do with AI, isn't it really? Just to make sure we're giving it equal kind of love from both genders.

35:55 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Yeah, and both qualities right. I mean it could also be a man who's very much in his feminine qualities, right, but that, you know, is probably even more an outlier than a woman in the field. So-

36:06 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

So what do you think the future of AI holds? Does it excite or scare you?

36:14 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Well, I'm, I'm rather optimistic, um, simply because probably I also see a lot of limitations still, right, I mean, I - I see that it can feel really scary if you also, you know, I mean all of a sudden this, these AI models happen and you haven't really been following the development.

I mean, of course, I see that the development is exponential and with- the progress that we're making is exponential. So it's also very hard to predict because it could - probably in 10 years time it's- it's already very different, um, but I'm- I'm rather excited. I'm rather optimistic because, at the end of the day, it's a technology and, like everything, it depends how you use it. And well, I just hope it can automate a lot of boring tasks. I just hope, you know, I can get an AI assistant that does that's like having a personal assistant, but something that everyone can afford.

37:23 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Yeah, definitely frees up our time to do all the other stuff - brilliant. Oh, Verena, it's been such a pleasure to speak to you and have you here today. Where can- Everyone needs to subscribe to our newsletter for a start, so we'll put the link in the newsletter. But is that? Yeah? Where can people find you? What's the best way to get in touch?

37:43 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Yeah, the newsletter, for sure. And then you can find me on LinkedIn. And yeah, I also have a website in case you're interested to check out what I do.

37:54 - Joanna Shilton (Host)

Brilliant Verena Weber. Thank you so much for coming on women with AI.

38:00 - Verena Weber (Guest)

Thank you, Jo - was a pleasure. It was really fun.

Joanna Shilton

Thank you.

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