In 2026, the need for mental health support has never been higher. Following the societal shifts of 2020, awareness has boomed, yet the industry faces a significant shortage of clinicians to meet the demand. In this episode, psychotherapist Liza Brackbill breaks down the "hiding in plain sight" reality of the profession: it is a career that blends evidence-based science with the unpredictable art of human connection.

Liza explains the critical differences between psychiatrists, psychologists, and social workers, providing a roadmap for those considering a Master's or PhD path . We also discuss the impact of social media and the "dopamine hits" driving anxiety in younger generations, as well as the industry’s cautious embrace of AI as a therapeutic tool . Whether you are a "helper" by nature or an aspiring entrepreneur looking to open your own practice, this conversation offers an honest look at the emotional rewards and lifestyle flexibility of modern psychotherapy.

Guest Bio

Liza Brackbill is a Licensed Independent Clinical Social Worker (LICSW) based in Massachusetts and the founder of Pathways and Possibilities Counseling Services. She holds a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology and a Master’s in Social Work (MSW). Before entering the clinical field, Liza spent three summers as a guide in Yellowstone National Park, an experience she credits with helping her gain perspective before committing to her graduate studies . Her practice specializes in anxiety-related disorders, including panic, social anxiety, OCD, and hoarding.

What We Cover

• The "Science and Art" of Therapy: Why following a script isn't enough when a real person is in front of you.
• Anxiety & Social Media: Understanding the "Anxious Generation" and the addictive nature of dopamine feeds.
• The Credentialing Roadmap: Breaking down the differences between an LICSW, a Psychologist (PhD), and a Psychiatrist (MD).
• Hoarding as Anxiety: A look into the specialized niche of hoarding disorder.
• Clinical Internships: The "trial by fire" of sitting across from your first patient.
• Work-Life Balance: How teletherapy has shifted the profession away from traditional evening/weekend hours.
• AI in Therapy: Why Liza believes human-to-human connection is "insulated" against the rise of ChatGPT.
• The "Little League" Test: Can a therapist maintain a consistent schedule for family and community?

Resources:

https://www.pathwaysandpossibilities.org

Dream job or nightmare?

It's hard to know if a career that looks

great on paper will actually lead you

to the life you want to live. So welcome

to DreamJob Cafe. I'm Larry Port.

I'll be asking different professionals

the questions you won't find anywhere

else. So grab a coffee, settle

in. This is Dream Job Cafe.

Sponsored by Wastepark.co,

where we help people navigate careers

in a crazy world. Hello everybody,

and welcome to another

podcast of The Dream Job Cafe.

Today I have Liza Brackbill with

me. She is a psychotherapist,

and this is a continuation of

our healthcare series. So Liza,

thank you for being with us today.

Thank you so much for having me.

So this is pretty cool. So Liza,

she just went out on her own and

her firm is called the Pathways and

Possibilities Counseling

Services. And so Liza,

tell me a little bit about what it

is that you do as a psychotherapist.

I think I know, but I'm

not a hundred percent sure.

Sure. Yeah. So I am an

outpatient psychotherapist.

So what that means is I'm doing mental

health counseling sessions with folks.

Many of my clients meet with me once a

week. Some people are every other week.

Some people are once a

month or less than that.

And therapy is interesting because

it can be so many different

things. And every week can be

different. Every person is different.

The needs are always different.

And there are a lot of different

approaches to therapy as well.

But what I do is kind of a mixture

of supporting people through

learning about their own patterns,

figuring out what they want to do,

and also teaching them

skills to better regulate

themselves, to strengthen

their mental health.

So it's really kind of a mix of things.

But I would say if I had to boil it down,

it's talking to people to help them.

That's great. Okay.

So I've actually used

a therapist on and off.

And what I find it very useful,

and one thing that I learned about

the whole space is that there's many

different types of them.

There's people that work in

cognitive behavioral therapy.

And I used one of those people when I

couldn't find my keys and misplacing them

and to change behaviors

and so on and so forth.

And I know there's people

that specialize in addiction.

So do you kind of have a focus

or do you use certain techniques?

Or I don't even know how

to ask this question,

but go ahead and

Take a shot at it.

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

So I focus primarily on

anxiety and anxiety related

disorders, kind of anxiety adjacent

disorders. So things like panic disorder,

social anxiety disorder,

hoarding disorder,

obsessive compulsive disorder.

Hoarding disorder?

Yeah.

People who collect too much stuff.

Yeah. It's an anxiety related disorder,

which a lot of people maybe don't know.

I think sometimes we

think about these things,

why can't that person let

go of a lot of their things?

And it's like there's an anxiety basis

around throwing things away. Yeah. Yeah.

So anxiety is kind of my sweet spot.

Well, it seems like there's a

lot of that these days out there.

So I would think that you might be busy.

Is it my imagination or is it just

part of what's going on right now?

Yeah, it's definitely

not your imagination,

but I think that there's also

just a lot more awareness.

And I think we saw a huge change

when COVID happened and all

of a sudden it was like, "Hey,

it's okay to not feel okay." And there

was really just a lot of campaigning

around mental health awareness where

we really realized as a society,

this is happening.

I think we're all feeling it right

now to some degree in different ways.

And so yes,

I think with different things that are

going on in the world and different

pressures and the way the world

is changing, there's more anxiety.

But it's also always been

there, I think to some degree.

And now we just have more awareness

of it and we're saying, "Hey,

it's okay to come out and

say, you need some help.".

That's fantastic. Yeah.

And I know that something that's been

really popular on the bookshelves lately

has been Jonathan Hate's

book, The Anxious Generation,

which kind of attributes a lot of things

to social media and that kind of usage.

Do you play in that space

too, just out of curiosity?

In the space of social media?

Social media... kind of ... I don't

even know what his really argument is,

but I suppose that that is an actual

phenomenon that's happening to people.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I see it,

especially with teenagers.

I think they have just such a different

ballgame going on with social media.

I think even for me,

when I was growing up,

it was like we had social media maybe,

but it was kind of adjacent to our social

life. And for people growing up today,

it is their social life.

It's fully integrated.

And so a lot of their social life is

sort of looking at these feeds where

it's a highlight reel and it's not

a realistic representation of their

peers, but they're comparing it

to everything about themselves.

So that's not a good comparison.

And I think that does create

a lot of anxiety for sure.

And there's other things.

Social media acts in a way the

same way drugs and alcohol act.

It's a dopamine hit for our

brain and it becomes addicting,

but it's not really good for us.

It's not a healthy use of our time.

And so over time, we don't feel

good because we're using it so much,

but we want more of it

because of that dopamine.

Interesting. So between the

awareness and the different factors,

societal factors, I would

think that there's a lot of,

this is a bad way to say this, but

there's a lot of need for this field.

I was going to say opportunities,

but that sounds a little callous.

But it sounds like there's a lot of need

for psychotherapy in the world these

days. Would you say that there's ...

When you were looking for work post or

while you were finishing up school and

thinking about the next phase,

is that a challenging thing to do or

is it not so hard to get placed in

your first initial job?

Yeah. Well,

so I can speak from the perspective

of a therapist because I'll say my

background is in social work and there's

just so many different jobs that you

can do within the field of social work.

But as far as outpatient therapy goes,

I didn't find it hard to find jobs.

I think there are more

open offices than there are

clinicians to fill and

work in those offices.

The last practice that I worked

at, I think, let's see here,

there were five office spaces and at the

most in the three years I was there,

we only had four clinicians at a time.

So there's always an open office

and that job posting was there.

So I think in terms of

there being job openings,

they're out there and I think that

that's only going to continue to progress

more as the need does continue to grow.

Yeah, I think so too.

I have a friend who is from

Argentina and in their society,

therapy is just part of life.

Everybody talks about their therapist,

everybody goes to therapy

and so on and so forth.

And I feel like we're not there,

but I feel like we're kind of tiptoeing

in that direction. So I don't know,

but it just seems like it's becoming more

accepted, less stigmatized for people.

So it does seem like it's trending in

the right direction. Can I ask you,

along these lines, when

it comes to mental health,

there's a lot of different jobs.

There's the psychiatrists and they're

the ones that can prescribe medication,

I think. There's psychologists,

you're a psychotherapist.

Can you kind of break down the different

kind of fields that there are and

what you know about the paths that

people have to take to get there?

Yeah, totally. Yeah. So my

background is in social work.

I'm a licensed independent clinical

social worker, which in each state,

the designation is like some

variation of that, slightly different.

In Massachusetts, that's

what it's called, LICSW.

And so what I'm able to do is

I can do things like diagnose,

I can do things like treat through

therapy and clinical interactions,

but I can't do something like prescribe

or administer neuropsych testing.

So those are reserved for different

designations and they do require more

schooling as well. So with what

I do, it's a master's degree.

If you wanted to be a psychologist,

you need a PhD and psychologists

can do everything that a

social worker can do. They

can also administer testing,

so like neuropsych testing and that

kind of a thing to diagnose some

specific conditions. And then

the other one you asked me, oh,

psychiatrist.

Yeah.

So psychiatrist is a doctor and that's

somebody that's gone to medical school

with a psychology angle basically

as their specialization.

And so there are sort of different

things that you can do within

the allowance of your license.

Okay, gotcha. So yours

is a master's degree.

So is that like two years?

And then is there also a ...

I know with these medical

and health related fields,

there's the schooling part and there's

like a practicum or some sort of lab

experience. Is it all

academic or how does the ...

Tell me a little bit about your

degree, what that was like.

Yeah.

So the master's degree full-time takes

about two years to complete for social

work, and it's not all academic.

It has field experiences with it.

That kind of varies by program.

So some programs have one

longer internship that you

complete throughout the

duration of your program.

Mine actually had two.

So I did about six months in

one experience and then another

year in another internship.

So that's part of it.

And I think it's actually an essential

part of the schooling because especially

with therapy, it's you and another

person behind closed doors, right?

So you're just kind of going into it.

And it's kind of weird at first

because you've never done it.

You're kind of trying to apply these

concepts from the classroom now with a

real person in front of you and you

don't know what they're going to come in

there with or say or ask you for.

So it's really essential that that's a

part of school because then you go back

to class and you get support about it.

And usually there is a designated class

that you take alongside your internship

where the purpose of the class is to

discuss your internship experiences and

discuss clinical interactions.

And so you're really getting a lot of

support that way to help you learn through

your experiences and also hear

about your classmates' experiences.

So at some point you are sitting across

from a patient for the very first

time. How does that happen?

Are they aware that you're in training

or do you foreshadow a psychotherapist?

Tell me about just jumping in.

Yeah. I think that's one of the

hardest parts about entering the field.

I remember when I was first getting

started and thinking to myself like, "Man,

I cannot wait for the day

where this feels comfortable.

I'm not kind of working myself up for

every session that I'm about to go into."

And so it is hard at first.

Shadowing can happen.

I was lucky enough to be able to do that.

I had a supervisor who was more

than willing to let me sit in on

her sessions and also her clients

were willing to let me do that too,

which is really special because they

have to be willing and this is like-.

Yeah.

It's a lot of trust. Yeah,

definitely. So it does happen.

I don't think it's a super standard part.

It's not always happening, but it can.

And then you just go into

it and you've got to try.

And there is something called-

Jump right in. Jump right in,

right into the fire. And there is

something called process recordings.

And what that is,

is after you have a clinical

interaction in your internship,

so you do a therapy session, for example,

you actually write out as much

as you can remember a script

of exactly what happened in that session.

And then you kind of reflect on

that and your supervisor also

provides you with feedback and

reflections on the interactions.

And of course that's all from memory

because we're not recording these things,

but yeah,

that's a big part of processing

all of it too and getting feedback.

Tell me, so you've been

doing this now for a while.

When we were introduced,

you mentioned something about you worked

with people with severe mental health

disorders.

So you've been in the field for a

little bit before you started your own

practice. Tell me a little

bit about your path.

Were you a psychology undergraduate

or just can you speak to that a little

bit?

Yeah. Yeah. When I was a kid,

this was one of the things that I

always thought I would like to do,

but I'm very indecisive.

So I went to college and I

did major in psychology and I

just always was drawn to it. And I

thought if I go further with this,

then that's great. If not, psychology is

maybe a good background to have anyway,

it could probably be applied

to a lot of different jobs.

So I did major in psychology,

but right after college,

I didn't do anything even

remotely related to this field.

I actually was a guide in

Yellowstone for three summers. Ooh.

That.

Sounds like.

Fun.

It was a lot of fun,

yes. But it was seasonal.

And then I would do other stuff

at other times of the year.

And I think after a few years

of doing that, I was like, "Man,

I don't want to have five

different tax documents anymore.

I just want to have my one

W2." So I decided to go

back to school from there.

And

the job that I had working with

adults with severe mental illnesses,

that was actually part of my schooling.

So that was one of the

internships that I did was that.

Let me ask you a question because I like

the fact that you took some time after

college to really explore and take your

time before you made that next move.

Is that something that you

would recommend that people do?

Or looking back on that experience

now, how do you feel about that?

Yeah, I'm so glad that I did that. I mean,

I just wasn't ready, I don't think,

when I first got out to make

a decision to go invest more

finances and time and everything

into something more specific.

So it's hard because it's got

to be a balance. At some point,

if you want to go further,

you have to decide and you have

to commit and you have to do it,

but why does it have to be right

when you get out of school? I mean,

I think it's a lot to think

about if you're not really sure,

then take that time, go do something

else that seems interesting.

What I did was guiding.

And I think there was a part of me

that thought maybe I would do that

long term, but I think there was

also a part of me that was like,

"You know what?

This seems like a cool job.

I'm going to go have some fun

summers and meet different people and

see animals and stuff,

and let me do that before I

give some more thought to this.

" So yeah,

I think it's a good experience

to have if you're not sure yet.

You don't have to commit.

Yeah.

So I think for people who are listening

to this podcast or trying to figure out

their career direction, I think that

there's nothing wrong with that.

You get mixed career advice from

people where you need to hit it hard,

you need to do your thing in college,

you need to get your internship,

you need to get your job. But you know

what? It's like at the end of the day,

life is kind of short and you really

need to have these experiences if you can

in your life. And they really

inform your next chapters really,

really well, especially

if you're not dead set,

100% set on which path

you want to take. I mean,

I think it's really good to back

up and really see things and

explore the world because you never

know how things are going to play out or

who you're going to meet

or what experience is going

to lead to what experience.

So I think it's phenomenal that you did

that. So tell me a little bit about,

if somebody's maybe thinking

about going into this field,

I'm trying to put myself in

the shoes of that person.

Maybe they'd be concerned

about like, okay,

it's a pretty serious endeavor to

take somebody's mental health into

my hands or sit across from them.

Who do you think will succeed in a field

like this and who do you think should

not be in this field?

Okay. I'm going to start with

people that I think will succeed.

I think if you want to help,

you're like at least 50%

of the way there. I mean,

you have to be somebody

that wants to help people.

And I think if you are

that kind of person,

you will find that almost everybody else

in the field is that kind of person.

And that's something that's so great

about this field because there is so much

support, especially when you're just

starting out. I mean, therapists,

they want their clients to succeed, but

they also want each other to succeed.

And a big part of the field is talking

to each other and getting support.

So I think if you think

of yourself as a helper,

if you think of yourself as

someone who is empathetic and maybe

can feel for people who

have not just the same,

but different experiences as you.

I had a professor one time say that

therapy was a mixture of science and art,

and I always really loved

that and that stuck with me.

And I think it's so true

because it is the science of

an evidence-based modality, like you said,

cognitive behavior therapy or

motivational interviewing or something.

And these concepts that you learn

in school, that's the science,

but then the art is how do you apply

it to a real person in front of you

that's going to say things

to you you can't prepare for.

So I think if you are a helper,

if you describe yourself as empathetic,

and if you're someone who kind of

likes a mixture of science and art,

then this could be a good field for you.

Oh, wow. Okay. That's fantastic. All

right. So people who shouldn't go into it.

Yeah. I mean,

you've got to have patience and you do

have to sometimes think on your

feet as well. I mean, again,

you just can't really prepare

ahead of time for a session.

I mean, you're learning over time,

but you have to be

patient with your clients.

You have to be patient with

yourself because you don't know

everything. And so it's

a learning process.

And I hope that I'm always going to be

learning as long as I'm in this field,

I would hope that I'm

still sharpening my skills.

And so I think if you can have

that open mind, it's helpful,

but if you feel like you want to go into

something and sort of be an expert at

it right away and climb

the ladder really fast,

then it's going to be hard for you.

Interesting. Oh, that's a great answer.

So what about some of the stuff I assume

that you deal with is pretty heavy.

How about dealing with

it? When you leave work,

are you able to just shut it off or is

it something that you think about or do

you develop skills around

that? How does that work?

Yeah,

I think I've always been pretty lucky

in that I just kind of went into it with

the mindset that, okay, I'm not the

end all be all in anybody's life.

I'm not going to come in

here and save anybody.

I'm just trying to make their

life a little better and

help them make their life

a little better. People's lives are

going to go on with or without me in it,

but if I can do my best to

make their day or their week a

little bit better or help them to have

a skill that they didn't have before,

then I'm doing my job.

And so I think you do have to

sometimes have kind of thick skin and

situations do come up. And

again, it connects back to,

it's a learning process and some

of it's learning through doing.

And if you can say at the end

of the day that you've done your

best and you're trying to get

better, then you have to be able to

let that just be and know that it's not

going to be perfect every single time.

And to connect back to who should

or shouldn't be in the field,

I think if you're a person who's not going

to be able to do that and not be okay

with you not going to do it perfectly

every single time, it will be hard.

Yeah. I would think also just hearing

about somebody's troubles or like

if I was in your shoes, I might have

trouble, I might be thinking about,

"Oh my gosh, that poor guy," or

whatever like that after work.

But I guess from that perspective,

you're able to just hang out on a hook

at the end of the day or something like

that?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

you do have to take care of yourself and

I think that that's a big part of when

you say are there kind of strategies

for being able to leave work at work?

Part of it is just your own mental

wellness and get yourself a therapist if

you're feeling like you're struggling

with that kind of thing or it's hard to

leave work at work because

it can be hard. And certainly

when you have people on your caseload

who are maybe struggling a little extra,

you can worry about them.

And I'm not going to say it never

crosses your mind. It definitely does,

but then I think you have to come

back to what's my role in their life?

And my role is to show up for them

once a week or more if needed,

if they are struggling.

And I'm going to do that and I'm going

to do that to the best of my ability. And

then part of it is sort of trusting

that they are also going to be able to

take care of themselves. I

remember once when I was going,

this was when I was in school,

I was going on vacation

for one of the first times.

I hadn't taken a week off

from my clients before.

And I remember talking to my

supervisor about it and saying,

"I'm just really worried. Are people

going to be okay?" And this and that.

And she said to me,

"It's a little infantilizing to your

clients. They can take care of themselves.

You have to trust in them and believe in

them." And so I think that that's a big

part of it too,

is just recognizing what your role is

and believing in the people that you're

trying to help.

Right. Well,

if you've seen Freaky Friday a thousand

times like I did with my kids growing

up, then you see Jamie Lee Curtis running

into problems with their client, Evan.

But in any case, tell me

what your day is like.

Is it regular nine to five or

talk about that a little bit and

just how many patients do

you see, that kind of thing?

Yeah.

So most psychotherapists full-time

is considered somewhere between

maybe 24 to 30 clients a week.

And with that,

it does come out to about 40 hours of

work because there's other stuff that has

to be done, like documentation

and that kind of a thing.

It's not really nine to five,

although I would say it can be.

And I think with COVID and

everything moving online,

it has changed to look more

like that because traditionally

therapy hours were after work.

They were in the evening or

they were on the weekends.

And I think that therapists were kind

of required to work those hours a lot

more than they are now.

So after COVID happened,

we started doing teletherapy and that

wasn't really a thing before COVID.

I mean, maybe it was, but insurance

didn't really think it was a thing.

They weren't covering it.

And now it's covered up in the

same exact way that in office

therapy is because people have the

flexibility to take an hour out of their

workday to come see their therapist.

And so because of that,

it can look a lot more like daytime hours.

And I think from a work-life

balance perspective for therapists,

that's probably been great. I mean,

I entered the field

while that was happening.

You do have to do some evening hours.

At the last agency I worked at,

we were required to work until

7:00 PM on two nights a week,

but other than that,

we could work any hours that we wanted

as long as we were fulfilling our

productivity requirement of that, again,

between 24 and 30 client hours.

So there's a lot of flexibility with that.

It can kind of look like whatever

you want it to look like.

Well, and also let's point out

that you went out on your own.

So you have pathways and possibilities.

You're an entrepreneur now,

so you also have to take

care of your own billing,

and you have to take care

of your own marketing,

and you have all these other

things you have to do. So I mean,

I guess there's ...

And I don't think that's that uncommon

for psychotherapists either to open their

own shop. It's kind of like

attorneys or something.

So that's also something I guess

that is a factor. Are you using AI?

AI, the hot topic of the field.

Hot.

Topic.

I do.

Use some of that.

Are you worried about AI impacting

the field? I mean, my take is no,

because I want to talk to a human

being. And as far as I can tell,

you're a human being and

not ChatGPT right now.

Not a robot.

Right.

Yeah.

Okay. So what are your thoughts? I.

Was worried. I was very worried initially.

I was like, oh my God,

this is going to take over.

Why are they going to need us?

Especially to connect what we were

talking about with teenagers and stuff

earlier. These younger

generations, unfortunately,

I think they're a little more comfortable

talking to a robot than they are a

real person. It's easier for them to

sort of dump their problems on a robot.

And I was worried about it. And

I realized that we kind of have

to normalize AI being a big

part of our society. And they'll

come to therapy and they'll tell me,

I ran it through chat and I

asked Chat what I should say.

And I'm like, okay, it's a tool.

People are going to use it.

People are going to ask

Chat what they should say.

Let's talk about what Chat said you

should say. And let's still have

this human to human connection

where we can normalize that AI is

becoming a part of life that is

integrated and many people are

turning to as a tool, but it

shouldn't be the only tool.

So I think I was initially more worried

than I am now. I've kind of realized,

okay, people use this, but I

don't think they're relying on it.

Yeah. I think it's like,

from my perspective,

I think that the field is probably pretty

insulated against it because I just

think that this is a human field.

And my perspective is that we're

on the threshold of a really

great human age where we

kind of rediscover it again.

So I think that you're in pretty

good shape. It's also like,

I think they're a ways

away from truly figuring

out that true feel.

I don't know if you saw the newspaper or

the article when it was either the Wall

Street Journal or it

was the New York Times.

It was a front page headline

about somebody getting

involved with a delusional

relationship with an AI. I read it.

And whenever the bot would be

like, "Wait, I'm just an AI.

You need to adjust your behavior because

... " And the guy would freak out.

So people don't know how to interact

with these things. So long story short is

that I think the need for,

and I'm not sure my opinion counts

for anything, but I think you're.

In good shape. I think it does. I think

it does because you're a person, right?

So it's like, what do you want?

Yes. And I do think you're right.

And I will say that, I mean, there is not,

like we were talking about open offices

before and there not being enough

clinicians.

There are not enough clinicians right

now for the number of people that want to

have therapy with a real person, right?

There's not a shortage of

that. At my last practice,

the group practice I worked at,

we didn't have a wait list because

it would've just been too long.

It was just like, you can call and

if we have an opening when you call,

then you can get it,

but there's so much demand that

we're not even keeping a wait list.

So I think at least right now,

it's not showing signs of stopping

to Just because AI is here. So

I think, and I hope that you're right.

Is it my perception correct,

but it seems like there's

this field skews more

female than male.

Is there an issue getting

male psychotherapists into the

workforce or is that not an issue?

Yeah, you're definitely right. I mean,

it's mostly white women out here and I'm

obviously part of that demographic and

we need some diversity.

So if you're a guy,

if you're anything that's not a

white woman, come on in because

people sometimes they want to

identify with their clinician.

They want to see a clinician that looks

like them or maybe has had similar life

experiences based on their

demographic and that's fair.

So yeah,

I think it's less common to

see men for sure in the field,

but we need them. We need you guys.

Okay. Well, noted. If the podcast

doesn't work out, I may enroll.

Sounds good. Okay. So let's

talk a couple other things.

And we're going to wrap it up with

this. On a scale of one to 10,

the family dinner test,

so how likely are you to be able

to enjoy a dinner with your family?

Oh, I think an eight.

That's pretty good. All

right. We'll take it.

Yep.

Yeah. Okay. Let's take it up a notch.

Let's say that you want to get

involved, I call this the coaching,

the little league test.

If you want to coach a soccer

team or something like that,

on a scale of one to 10,

how likely would you be able to keep a

two or three night a week commitment?

Yeah, still pretty likely, especially

two, three nights a week. Yeah,

I would give that maybe a seven.

Maybe it's a little bit tougher,

but I think you're still pretty

likely to be able to do that. Well.

Maybe you're not the main coach.

Maybe you're the co-manager

or something like that. All.

Right. Yeah. So cool.

Absolutely. I think- Well.

And also when the kid strikes out,

you'd be able to say the right

things to them because they're a.

Psychotherapist. So there's

that too. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Now the last one is we don't like to

talk numbers, but the Disney World test.

This is, okay,

could you take a family to Disney World

on a psychotherapist salary? And if so,

would you stay in the budget

hotel, the moderate hotel,

or could you splurge and go

to the super fancy hotel?

Yeah.

So what I'll say about

that is it varies widely

in the field. So if you're

just starting out in the field,

you might be more likely to be working

in a community mental health center.

It's a little bit easier to get those

kinds of jobs right out of school where

maybe you're not being paid

quite as much and you are

working more. However, as

you progress in the field,

it's absolutely, it's absolutely possible.

And can you tell me the kinds of

hotels we could be staying in again?

All right. Well, let's say a budget hotel.

Let's call that the Motel six.

Or could you go and could you

stay in a Hilton or could you stay

in the super fancy Mickey Mouse Hotel?

Yeah.

I think you're probably going to be in

sort of the mid-range most of the time.

But that being said, it all depends on

the rest of how you're living your life.

And if you save up,

you probably could stay at that fancy

hotel if that's really what you wanted to

do. So it's absolutely

not out of the question.

All right. I may switch things now.

I may switch things to Yellowstone

because that seems like-.

Yeah.

Sure. Yeah. Let's talk about that.

More people may want to be going to

Yellowstone now than Disney. All right.

Well, this is wonderful. Liza, thank

you so much for coming on our program.

Any other closing thoughts?

Are we good? Or you tell me.

I think the last thing that I would

want to say is just that it's a

really, really rewarding field. If you

are somebody who wants to help people,

it's pretty incredible.

I keep this little ...

I actually have it right here on my desk.

I keep this little notebook

about all my client wins when

people have a breakthrough and things go

well because there are hard days in the

field as well, but there are

also really, really good days.

So if you're considering it,

I think it's a worthwhile

consideration and endeavor.

Fantastic. So I'll tell you what,

everybody, if you like this episode,

please like it or share it

with a friend. And if you can,

be grateful for something

today. Thank you, Liza.

Thank you so much.

Thanks for listening.

Don't forget to like and subscribe to

Dream Job Cafe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen. And don't

forget to check out Wayspark.co,

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