Step right up and prepare to peek behind the painted smiles, as today’s guest, professional clown Guilford Adams, reveals there's more to the profession than a big red nose. As the co-director of the feature-length documentary American Clown, Guilford joins us to discuss the film, which explores the plight of clowns in a country that increasingly views them with apprehension and disdain. 

Guilford traces his roots to his childhood church, where he discovered his love for magic and comedy. He recounts his evolution from a junior high clown to a professional performer, including his time with the Ronald McDonald program and how the clowning landscape has shifted over the years.

Guilford discusses the challenges that clowns face today, particularly the stigma created by horror films and negative media portrayals. He reflects on how these representations affect his career and the wider clowning community, as highlighted in American Clown. Despite these hurdles, he emphasizes the resilience and creativity inherent in the clowning tradition. The conversation explores the diversity within clowning, highlighting different classifications of clowns from classic to modern specialties. Guilford underscores the importance of community among clowns, pointing out the supportive networks that exist despite the competitive nature of the industry.

Guilford also shares how fatherhood has influenced his craft. As a dad to twin boys, he reveals how parenting has shaped his understanding of performance and deepened his empathy as an artist. This episode offers an insightful look into the art of clowning, illustrating how it goes beyond mere entertainment to foster connection and understanding in a complex world—themes that resonate throughout American Clown.

For more information, please visit https://notrealart.com/american-clown

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Man, do we have a cool show for you today.

Today is the first day, the first show that we've ever had a professional clown.

And yes, Guilford Adams is a professional clown and he's our guest today.

But he's also an amazing director, co director of a new documentary called American Clown, which we're here to talk about today.

So stay tuned for my conversation with Guilford.

He's awesome.

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Today, today we have a total clown.

Guilford Adams is one of my favorite guests.

I've never known a professional clown and we've never had a professional clown on the podcast.

And so Guilford Adams is our first professional clown.

I couldn't be more thrilled about this.

He's also the co director of a new movie documentary called American Clown.

And you can go to american clownmovie.com to learn about that and I encourage you to do.

I've seen the movie.

It's awesome.

So much, so much history in there, so much information in there.

Such a window into this whole world of clowning and clowns and the culture and the subculture and the history.

It's, it, it was just fantastic.

And Guilford is, as I said, the co director of America Clown.

He's a successful actor as well and a professional actor with hundreds of credits.

His name on film, television and stage.

He's also performed for over 50,000 kids in LA and Los Angeles area for more than two decades as a professional clown.

And so I'm just so thrilled.

She's a true artist and writer, performer now a director and just a wonderful, beautiful, warm human.

And I just so enjoyed talking to him.

So without further ado, let's get into this fantastic conversation I had with the one and only Guilford Adams.

Guilford Adams, welcome to Not Real Art.

Hey.

I really appreciate being here, man.

I tell you this like, it's like so exciting for me today.

This is a milestone episode because we have never had a professional clown on the podcast.

You are number one clown, my friend.

I appreciate that.

It's, you know, I'm honored that I, that I'm the first clown.

I find that hard to believe.

You know, I'm sure you've had other clowns here, but I'll take that as professional clown.

Maybe that is the clown.

Yes.

No, no, there's been lots of clowns, don't get me wrong.

But in terms of a professional clown that has a craft and has mastered the craft of clowning, you are the first.

And so I'm delighted, you know, on the Not Reliar podcast here we, we like to say that we talk to the world's most creative people and clowns are some of the most creative people in the world as far as I'm concerned.

And I bet you agree.

And, but the, but the fact that you're here today not just to talk about what it's like to be an American clown today, bringing joy to people, but you're also a first time movie director, having directed your documentary feature length film, American Clown.

And I'm just so grateful you took time out of your busy schedule to come talk about this incredible project.

You know, man, thanks for having me.

I mean that's, I'm just trying to get the word out.

And so I appreciate being on your.

Podcast anytime, you clowns.

By the way, what I realized is I'm going to give professional clowns such as yourself an open door policy.

You come on anytime.

Let's, let's, let's delight the audience.

Let's clown it up together.

This is a fantastic thing for us here.

So thanks for coming, man.

And how are you feeling, man?

I mean, you know, making a movie is no joke.

And you've been at this for a while.

Yeah, I mean, it was, it's been a process, right.

It's almost been a full decade since we kind of started.

I mean, really the conversation had started a little bit before that.

And so for a lot of people that might or might not know that McDonald's had a character named Ronald McDonald.

And, and he was the celebrity of sorts.

And, and it was at that time that I kind of took my friend up in an offer who's one of the producers, Jason Sali, and he was like, oh, we should be doing a documentary, you know, about your life.

And at the time, at that time when the program was ending, it was a appealing because I was like, well, this is only going to happen once.

You know, it's like a house being torn down.

Like, we should film this.

We should film this house being torn down.

Maybe we can use it sort of thing.

And then it just kind of really took on the life of its own because around that same time, Ringling Brothers closed their doors and a Big Apple searched to close their doors.

For a while it was just like what's.

And all these horror clown movies started kind of coming out.

Not they hadn't been around before, but just really pushing this sort of like this, this new clown icon.

And so it was around that time that all this stuff started kind of happening and started falling apart.

And, and then this new sort of horror clown was kind of our ambassador for better or worse.

And, and it really haven't, you know, and I think there is also something else too, that's even a bigger picture thing.

And we talk about a little bit the doc, but there was a real bleeding with what's newsworthy and what's entertainment.

And these two things started kind of really coexisting and we didn't know anymore, you know, like, this is not a news story, but we're going to give it fuel because this is the clickbait that we need.

And, and it really started really leveling people's careers just you know, like just on a birthday party, clowns, everything.

Because for, you know, for those that don't know or weren't largely affected by it in middle America and called it California and other places, they were like this scary clowns are coming to LA and all this crazy stuff.

And so it really like cut down on the jobs that we did do because everyone is petrified that we were going to murder them or something.

I don't know.

Crazy, crazy.

And it was.

And you touch on this in the DOC and we're going to jump all around.

But I mean there was even that story about, I know somewhere in South Carolina or North Carolina where people were seeing these, there were these clown sightings and they were like these, you know, haunting people.

I mean like, what was that even about?

And is that a prank?

Do we, did we ever figure out what happened with that?

You know, I thought at first there was a lot of this clown stuff started actually in England in, I don't know if it's like Edinburgh, it was someplace in England where it's a creepy clown standing in like, whatever.

And then, you know, it became kind of a viral story.

And so I think people, some kids started to emulate it in the east coast.

And then it kind of came over here and I remembered, you know, these news anchors calling me or somebody calling me from news stations saying, hey, you want to talk about this scary clown stuff entering la.

Because I'd see on the newscast like, man, every kid with like an extra 20 bucks on him is going to go buy a scary clown mask.

Because right before Halloween it just feels like you're just, you're really, you're just, you know, you're picking the low hanging fruit on this one, man.

I, I don't know what, what you're doing here.

And then they wanted me to come in and talk about it, you know, on this story that they had willingly spread.

Now come in and tell us how it's affecting you.

And it's just like, it's just the whole thing was kind of Orwellian, honestly.

What's going on here, man?

And it really just became, it was a salacious story, it was clickbait type material and, and who cares if it screws up a couple clowns jobs, you know, like, it's clowns, man.

They're just like, who cares?

And I just felt like, you know, it was, it was unfortunate and it was.

And I don't think they would do that with many other professions, right?

If, if you were a cop and you were say you were in a police officer's uniform and then you pulled somebody over.

They would say a guy dressed in a uniform pulled somebody over.

Impersonating an officer, a felony or something, you know, and they tried to do this.

You wouldn't say a cop pulled somebody.

Over and tried to flash them.

You know, you wouldn't say that.

So I just didn't understand why they kept calling these people in latex masks clowns, you know, or, you know, I guess they weren't saying professional clowns.

It just.

It felt like very.

I don't.

Salacious.

Just.

Just for being salacious.

Lazy, all that stuff.

Like entertainment.

It felt like entertainment.

This is not news, man.

This is not news at all.

And it's screwing people up.

Yeah, well, okay, so enough of this scary shit, because we're here to talk about joy and delight and the fun loving nature of clowning and clowns.

You know, you mentioned Ronald McDonald.

I mean, you know, it's funny.

I recently bought a T shirt, impulse buy.

And it was.

It basically said something like.

It says, I had my birthday at McDonald's and it was like the iconic, like, artwork from the 70s.

They were amazing.

You got the cake and Ronald was there.

It was fantastic.

Yeah, it was.

I mean, that was.

It was a place.

It was a hub.

You know, I think if you go to a McDonald's now, this has probably always been in the works.

It's very.

It's a very sterile environment.

It's like a Starbucks without the friendly baristas, you know, and they.

You don't see anybody.

Your food's brought to the table.

You know, it's just really.

It's turned into a transactional type of restaurant as opposed to something that was alive and it was community based and whatever else.

I think Ronald worked in that one.

I think this new one, not as much, you know.

Yeah, not.

Not.

Yeah, not.

Not as much as all.

It sort of feels like he's sort of disappeared.

But also being a child of the 70s, and you get into this in the movie, which is great, but, you know, growing up outside Chicago as I did, I mean, Bozo the Clown.

I mean, this was.

This was vital to my childhood in this.

Yeah, Bozo was very much there, you know, an interesting.

So David Arquette's in the documentary and he bought the rights to Bozo.

A lot of people don't know that unless they follow him on Instagram or.

But, you know, I imagine it was.

It was a.

It was an entity that probably had its share of debt.

I'm just guessing here.

He hasn't talked to me specifically about that.

But it's a worldwide entity.

I mean, it's not just.

It's a global thing.

Bozo, you know, and when it started back there in the 40s and the 50s, lots of markets had a bozo.

Lots of markets.

There was probably a hundred BOZOS across the U.S. i mean, because news stations had to provide at least two hours of children's programming, you know, a week or something to get their federal money.

So they always made, like, the weatherman do it.

The weatherman would be the bozo, you know, because he had the least amount to do.

And he's in front of the big screen anyway.

Just throw in there, you'll do the bozo bit, you know, and so that was kind of how he started.

So, you know, I think in it, we talk about this Joey, who played one of Joy.

Dara, who played one of the bozos in really the last Bozo.

The last major bozo in the Right before the right.

He was talking about, like, every boat, every kid thought that Bozo is the bozo, you know, the bozo because he was such an iconic brand.

And to this day, you still.

You could see a silhouette of that hair.

You're like, oh, that's bozo.

That's totally bozo.

You know, so he's, you know, it's.

It's such a unique, you know, it's such a unique sort of, like, entity, really, to.

To Americans, you know, obviously probably in the top ten.

Really?

Ye.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, okay, we're going to bounce around here.

So there's just so much to talk about.

And because, you know, we could talk about the difficulties of being a independent filmmaker and just the real struggle that it takes to make a movie over 10 years independently.

That.

That's a very rich conversation that people find fascinating.

Obviously want to talk about the subject matter at hand, which is the movie itself and the content in the movie.

But all of this really starts with you, my friend.

All of this starts with your journey as an artist, your journey as a human, your vision for your.

Not just your life, but then ultimately this movie, you know, take us back Guilford, to, you know, you know, little.

Little, Little boy, Gilly growing up somewhere, you know, probably making people laugh and having fun.

I mean, what was your journey?

How did.

How did you go from, you know, innocent little boy to professional clown?

It's, you know, it's.

It's kind of a unique.

I didn't.

I dabbled in this.

In clowning when I was maybe in junior high, before I really.

Girls became on the radar for me specifically.

And.

And I remember taking something in my church.

It was like a. I grew up Methodist in the south, and so they had a.

A program that taught you magic and stuff.

And it was like what carrying clowns do.

Kind of not really spreading the word of gospel, but in the word of God.

And you're kind of.

You're out there trying to facilitate, trying to make people laugh.

And so it comes from an honest, sincere place.

And that's kind of how I got into it.

And then I got into college.

You know, I got into high school, and I got into sports, and it really was in college.

I took an acting class, and I. I was in the sports, but it wasn't really my tribe.

I was with a lot of jocks.

I was a springboard diver, but I was with a lot of swimmers.

And.

And at the college level, they were more jocular than I think I thought I was.

You know, great guys, but just more jocular.

It didn't feel like my tribe, so I took an acting class, and it just felt like, you know, I did a play with this theater troupe called Diablo Mundo from Argentina, and I remember them taking over a restaurant after one of our shows and just being like, oh, my God, this.

This is, like, this is my tribe.

These are my people.

These are my freaks.

You know, like, these other guys aren't freaks.

These are freaks, and I feel more like them.

So when I moved to.

I was a transfer student at Tennessee at the time.

I moved back to Texas to be closer to home at UT right there.

And.

And I got.

And I got into my.

I got into my sort of.

I auditioned for the BFA program, and they took, like, a very select number, and I got in.

Now, I didn't know anything as an actor, though.

I just.

I'd done one play.

Like, I just.

I avoided it in high school because I was an athlete, so I didn't have anything to really go on.

Like, I didn't have any background knowledge on plays or I didn't know what anything was about.

You know, it was kind of, like, I said, I was a jock, so.

But I could.

I could flip, I could tumble.

I could do, like, all this physical stuff.

So I just kind of naturally came to acting as a profession, as a physical performer.

And that, and that's why I naturally gravitated towards clowns.

And then, you know, and it was like.

And I'd already kind of like laid some minor groundwork by being young and knowing how to juggle and do balloon animals and stuff.

And so I really just kind of flourished.

And then I, and I worked enough doing other characters like Woody and Pikachu and stuff, and I was like, I don't want to, I don't want to do any of these other things.

I just want to be a clown.

So I started my own company, which became Los Angeles Clown.

And that was kind of really the beginning.

So then I basically learned all my sort of.

Kind of I fell short on finishing the paperwork and you know, I was not was, which is a big thing.

I mean, what, what, what self respecting clown would ever get the paperwork in on time?

Well, like the ones that got into clown college.

That's basically, that's, that's who got it.

Even Stevo did his paperwork, you know, and, and we see it in the documentary, like everyone did it that got in.

And so, you know, that's, that's a, I wouldn't say a regret as much as it's like pretty characteristic of me.

That's not my strongest suit, the paperwork.

And so, so yeah, so, but I started booking jobs and I got the, I got the McDonald's job.

And then because of Plant portraying clowns, I started working more in commercials and tv.

And because I was an actor, I had a special ability to do it at least on screen and film that other clowns didn't.

I'll give you a perfect example.

This is like any clown, if you tell an actor, hey, I need you to go step on your mark.

I need you to stay right there.

Don't move until I collect.

And any actor can do that.

They can do it.

You know, if you tell a clown and just step right over there and stay on that mark until I say action.

They won't be able to do it.

They'll be able to because it's a direct challenge.

Like, you want me to do what?

Really?

Oh, yeah.

Okay, we're stepping on the mark.

I mean, just, it's just, it'd be too much, man, but God damn, just stay on the mark, you know, so I've seen other clowns fail where other actors, like, I know how to do this, man, you know, like, they're just like trained puppies.

Like, this is what you do.

And you got to wait for your.

And as an actor, everything is like.

Because of the status and just clowning in general, it comes across as, you know, like a challenge or like adversarial on that mark, huh?

You know, so I think it really.

I was able to blend both of my professions together to become a bookable clown on film and tv, where I think a lot of clowns probably had trouble.

Well, something you said, I mean, you covered a lot of ground there and I.

A couple.

Couple things that really jumped out at me, I want to drill down on a little bit because you touched on being an athlete.

And, you know, one of the things that jumped out at me watching your movie American Clown, was just the sheer athleticism of clowning and being able to have that command of one's body.

Eye, hand coordination, obviously, being able to fall down, tumble, jump, whatever it is.

Many of clowns, if not all clowns, it seems to me, have to have a certain level of athletic ability.

Yeah, I would say that is correct.

I think, especially starting off, you know, I understand as you get Bill Irwin, who's also.

Who's a master clown, he's in the documentary, he has a great story where he's with Marcel Marceau and the photographer is asking him to jump and he's like, no, no, I don't jump.

You know, I think then I love the way he says it.

You know, as I get older, I have to have the prerogative of age.

Like, I'm not going to do that.

And, you know, we learn on set, like, I don't want to.

If I fall down now successfully, you're going to want me to do it.

Every take that we have, and I've seen you do like 10 to 15 takes each.

And I just have to preserve my body a little bit longer.

But it does start with like, sure, what do you want me to do?

It's like, if you're.

Now you're an athlete, I mean, you're an athlete just doing a horrible job to the public eye, you know, but that's what you're doing, you know, And I think in such a unique way.

And it's one of the reasons why I wanted to have Steve O.

I forgot that part of talking earlier when I auditioned in 97, and I was like, you know, I'm just Gonna, if they saw me, they, I'll do it next year.

That was the last year they did it.

They didn't tell anybody.

And also, like, oh, I guess that was my shot.

And I just didn't go all the way through with it.

But.

Steve O.

Like, jackass.

Those guys are.

They're.

They're athletes.

I mean, they're idiot athletes, but they're, they're athletic.

The things they're doing are like, jesus, that's really tough.

And so to me, it fits perfectly within this sort of.

Sort of timeline of clowning.

Very Three Stooges to me.

Yeah, yeah, Three Stooges.

Right?

That's.

That's right.

It's just that, that ability to control one's body in space, to be able to make it look, you know, like an accident.

But also, of course, it's not.

It's very intentional and controlled and being able to, to imagine something, you know, and actually deliver on that, it is very apparent to me.

And say nothing of things like juggling and all that stuff.

Stuff.

I mean, you know, unicycle riding, whatever.

I mean, it is, it is such a, a.

An athletic endeavor.

I mean, it's, it's got me wondering.

I mean, should, should are.

Is there a clown?

I mean, I feel we should pit clowns against each other.

Unicycle races who's the fastest?

You know, I mean, that kind of thing.

Like we said, the clown Olympics.

Yeah, it's.

It's funny.

There is a lot of dexterity involved, and it, it, it requires.

It's the same thing with guitar playing.

You know, I think we.

You marvel when somebody is good at guitar, and he's just like, you know how long that kid sat in that bedroom and practiced scales?

Like you have any idea.

Like, the average person is like, okay, you know, I'm done.

I'm gonna go see my friends.

But then these, these crazy driven savants are like, I'm not stopping.

I'm not.

I'm Bloody Fingers, and I'm just gonna keep on going.

Well, clowning is the same way.

You know, you just get so frustrated.

You know, you just need to keep doing it.

It took me, I remember once seeing Adam Kukler, who's in the docuseries, probably one of the world's best cigar box guys.

And so he's just so good at it.

And I remember seeing him.

I was staying in the Bendlesis space years ago to do a play in New York.

Bentles of Circus is based on the east coast, and I remember seeing him kind of Work on things and then get kind of like, at that point, you're like.

Like you're gonna throw something, and then you just kind of move to something else in the room and kind of work on that a little bit.

And I. I thought, like, that's how everybody just.

You just kind of.

It's almost like you're doing circuits or something.

Because when you get frustrated, you're like, I'm gonna.

Is.

Hey, walk away, dude.

Walk away.

You know, it's just.

You're not there yet.

You're.

You're just your.

Your body.

You know, if you keep.

Teach kids to juggle and they're both trying to throw a ball, you know, they'll try.

You go this and go this way, and then their body goes.

And then you're like.

Because your body doesn't want to do it, you just gotta, like, just be cool with yourself, man.

It's gonna take time.

You're.

You're basically trying to rewire your brain, and so it's going to take a minute to do.

You know, most people just give up.

Like, I'm not going to do it.

Well, that.

That.

That's the old 10,000 hours thing, right?

It's like 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 hours.

I mean, that's what it takes.

If you really are compelled and.

And committed right.

To your craft, that's what it takes.

There's that scene in the movie.

I forget who says it, but somebody's talking about the hours.

Countless hours that he spent just trying to flip a hat on his head, you know, and.

Right.

It's like, yeah, you do it thousands of times, fail a thousand times just to make sure that you can do it, you know, on demand and land.

Land it every time, you know?

Yeah.

You know, and I think something that we forget that he's.

That was Matt Morgan, I believe or not.

I'm sorry.

Matt Walker, it talks about.

He runs Trudeau Theater Company here in Los Angeles, actually, a lot of times at the Colony and other Spaces.

But, you know, and he's something.

I.

He's someone that I've watched for, worked with a bunch, and watched for a number of years.

Well, you know, we're.

It's.

And sometimes it's not the successes that pull people in.

I mean, sure, it's great to see somebody hit a trick like that, but what's really great is to see them not hit it for a while and then hit it, you know, because you're like, oh, it just really ratchets up the nerve.

Like, Jesus, he's Gonna, you know, and nail it on that lap, you know.

You know, he.

Comedy comes in threes, everything.

If you, if you miss it.

Once you miss it, don't worry about it, just get it, you know, And I think he, he does that better than most.

Better than most, you know, and he's just been a, he's been a great inspiration as far as that, because you won't make every single one.

Even if you practiced it a thousand times a day.

When it comes to it and you're doing in performance, you've got pressure.

Chances are you can miss it too, you know.

Okay, so imagine I want to be a clown.

It's like, oh, okay, I want to be a clown.

I'm going to, I'm going to take it serious.

I'm going to, you know, I'm.

What I want to do.

I want to hone my crap, but I want to be different.

I want to differentiate my clowning from other clowns.

But of course, there's a tradition, there's a legacy.

There are classic clowns or, you know, kind of maybe old school clowns, new school clowns, whatever.

Right.

Is there like a, I don't know if the word is like, classifications or categories?

Like, are there like categories of clowns or classifications of clowns where the clowns could say, yeah, well, I'm, I'm this kind of clown.

I'm clown X or clown Y or clown A or B.

Talk to me a little bit about how when you're a professional clown or you're in the clowning industrial complex, what are those, Are there categories or classifications that you think about, you know, how to organize or how to describe a particular kind of clown or clowning?

Sure.

I think, you know, it's almost a little bit like we're all existing in, and forgive the comparison, like a street fighter world.

Right.

That you've got people that throw things, you have people that can jump, you've got physical people.

So, you know, I'm not saying that about clowns, although you probably have those too.

But, you know, you've got different types.

You've got really four different types of clowns.

You have a white face, which is all white, and then you have an august, which is going to be kind of big features, but then kind of skin color tones and stuff.

Then you have a tramp, which is kind of like that sort of M. Kelly, the sort of like hobo looking clown that's considered a tramp.

And then you have kind of, I think, which is a pretty big category this for his Specialty clown, which could be like a cowboy clown or like a whatever.

Like maybe he's a goose, maybe his wife is.

But his, his, his, his, his wardrobe really, it really kind of identifies who he is.

It's not so much specifically like the makeup.

Like, maybe it's a sporty clown.

Like, as a guy in a Dodgers uniform.

He's like, oh, it's like a baseball Dodgers clown, you know, so it's not so much makeup driven.

And within those typically, what, what it used to be, whiteface would be high status, sort of a goose would be kind of mid status.

You know, they can go high, go low with the flesh tones, and then tramp would kind of be the lowest.

And.

And then within that, they would have different sets of skills.

Right.

Like I'm a clown that focuses on balloon animals and juggling, or I'm a fan clown that focus on juggling and hat tricks.

Or, you know, I'm in.

And then within that too.

It's kind of like I'm more of a kids party clown, or I'm kind of more of an old folks home clown.

Or like I'm, you know, this is kind of my skill set.

Like, you know, if, like all you do is vaudeville numbers on the ukulele, like, that's going to be great for old folks, you know what?

Little kid.

Maybe little kids too, but it's gonna, it's gonna be geared towards that sort of thing.

And then there's.

There's daredevil clowns, too.

I mean, Ringling had a couple of those for a while.

It's kind.

And then there's horror clowns.

I like to think of it all as kind of like, which is kind of a new sort of genre, almost kind of a cinema clown, but it's a horror clown.

And then I think there's a new group of clowns that they don't use clown.

They, they use it loosely, but it's clowning.

A lot of them perform the.

Chad Damiani, who's also in the doc, Natalie Palmetti's, I believe we say her name is she.

They do a lot of the clown zoo, these, you know, John Gilkey and the Idiot Workshop.

It's more, it's more like an abandon of kind of the makeup in general and just, just the absurdness.

It's almost like just the, the crazy artauish type of, just of constructs that we put on each other as men and women.

And just.

This one was buffoonery.

And so.

And I think that's a part now which wasn't a part, you know, you know, 20, 30 years ago.

So, you know, we're always kind of pushing it.

I mean, if you.

You wouldn't even stop there.

You could go into drag.

They call each other clowns a lot.

So it starts to really, I think, kind of take off, you know.

So what we're talking about, what American clown, really, I think.

I don't know, it focuses on.

But it talks largely about traditional clowning.

20th century traditional clowning.

And I think there's a lot of newish avenues now.

I mean, there's even like, there's Instagram clowns now, you know, that people that are in.

Clown fetish people.

And like, you know, it's.

It's a lot of.

Kind of a lot of only fans clowns.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, there are.

There are.

So, you know, it's not.

It's not as.

It's really opening.

The world is opening for a lot of people, and.

And I'm for it.

I'm for whatever keeps the ambassador life.

So.

I don't even dislike the horror clown.

I just.

I get a little bit tired of him being this sort of ambassador.

I think he's a poor ambassador for all of us, just because I don't think he represents us.

Not.

Not entirely.

Yeah.

Well, okay, so I'm gonna just throw out some.

Some words here and you tell me, you know, clown or no clown.

Right.

Just because I'm trying to understand where these other pieces kind of fit in, if they fit in.

So mimes, clown or no clown?

I mean.

Yeah, Miming is a clown.

I mean.

Okay, okay.

But Blue Man Group, clown or no clown?

I mean, yeah, I think because they make up and they have skills.

I mean, they're excellent drummers, all of them.

Yes.

And then I'm thinking of Cirque du Soleil.

Yeah, Clowns.

Yeah.

Okay, so this.

This probably represents sort of.

Well, maybe not miming, but Blue Man Group, Cirque du Soleil, Fairly modern expressions.

Yeah, I think Cirque du Soleil, most of them fit in her specialty clowns, they don't wear a lot of makeup, but it's very specific.

Like it's Italian or, you know, it's very, you know, and they have extended features, but it's definitely clown, without a doubt, you know, but it isn't full makeup.

I mean, it's.

Or it's.

It's touches, it's flourishes, you know.

Yes, yeah, but absolutely.

So one of the things that really struck me in the movie that I really appreciated is that it really felt like Everybody in the movie really kind of knew each other.

Like there was like a real community or a real culture around clowns or clowning maybe in LA or the country, what have you.

I mean, to what extent do clowns know each other?

To what extent do, you know, you guys get together to talk shop over, you know, cold brews?

I mean, like, is there certainly in L. A is there kind of a professional network that, that people feel supported and looked after?

Yeah.

Yes, I would say yes, but I think it's clicky.

And I don't mean that in a negative way.

I just think that not all clowns get along and that some clowns are more like, I get along with that guy and I get a, you know, like I've always been a very 9 to 5 clown or I'll say a clock in, clock out clown.

And I imagine it's somewhat like this with stand up comics, right?

There's some stand up comics you like.

If you're a stand up comic, there's others that you don't like very much.

So I think it's kind of the same way as a clown.

There's some that I gel with and then some are like, they're a little much for me or they kind of.

It's just a little bit.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, but I, I will at the end of the day.

Okay.

For example, I'm a Texan, right?

I've been out in California for a long time in Texas, if you're from Houston and someone's from Dallas, like that guy's from Dallas, you know, you kind of.

But out in California, we're all from Texas, you know, so that's how I feel about clowns.

You know, it's like at the end of the day, we're all still clowns, but I don't particularly like you very much.

You know, I would defend you if somebody else was saying like, whatever, like, hey, stop it, man.

He's like, But I don't like him either too much, but he's a clown, you know, So I, I think it kind of, it's like family, right?

Like you love your family.

Family, right?

Like you don't, you have to love her.

You don't have to like them, right?

Yeah, it's a little bit like that.

But I wish there was more.

And I think part of why I did this doc, is that.

And maybe it's not a bad thing.

I was talking to a clown once and I don't remember who said it, but I was like, you know, really don't like the fact that a clown doesn't really have a home.

He's like, you know, I like the fact that clowns don't have homes so that there's not like a place that you can call young people or people interested in the profession.

I feel like I want them to have a chance to be able to, to participate.

That's the only way that we're going to keep clowning as, as, As a group healthy, is that if we continue to bring more people in as opposed to be.

Yeah, no, you're.

You're not.

Kind of.

So truth be told, I'm considered a Yama to other Ringling Brothers clowns because I never went to Ringling Brothers.

So that's their own sort of way of being kind of clicky.

And what that term means is that when Ringling Brothers would go to tour around the US and then somebody would come up to them while they're doing some kind of shit task, and they would be like, hey, you know what?

I'm a clown.

Yeah, I'm a clown too.

Yeah, I'm a clown too.

They would call us Yamas.

Yeah, you're not in the big.

You're not in the big top, dude, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kind of a poser.

You're basically the clown word proposer.

You're a poser.

So the truth is, I never went to clown college, so I'm, I'm a poser.

But, you know, I'm probably.

I'm a. I could be called a children's party clown, you know.

So to them it's kind of like, oof.

I don't do kids parties, man.

I don't like kids.

Half of them will say that, like, I don't like kids.

They're like, well, I'm not sure what that, what does that say about you as a clown?

But okay, okay.

You know, so.

So I think there's different, Lots of different subgroups within this thing that is probably, probably a, a bad thing and not a good thing.

But I, I think it's just human nature.

I, I don't know any other profession where you would have, you know, if I went to your house and let's say I was a plumber and you knew another plumber, you wouldn't be like, you should talk plumber.

I know you guys could talk about o rings or something or like wrench settings or whatever you plumbers talk about.

I don't know.

You know, you wouldn't think that, but people think that as clowns.

Like, oh, you'd love this other clown, like.

Right, right, right.

Well, you know, one of the things that struck me about the.

About the movie as well, and, you know, I don't know if I'm right or wrong about this, but it did feel like the clown community is pretty diverse.

I mean, you have young clowns.

You have old.

I mean, young.

I mean, you know, you'll see like 20, 30s, 40s.

Then you had older clowns.

You had diversity, boys and girls.

You had black people, white people.

You know, I love that.

I mean, it was really interesting how clowning just appealed to so many different types of humans.

Yeah, I think it does appeal to.

I mean, it's.

It's.

It's a calling, right?

It's a calling like anything else is a calling.

And it calls to people in all sort of.

Like, in all avenues of life, in all sort of in all communities of America.

And so there are.

You know, and I was also conscious of that.

There was people that.

You know, as much as I.

Ultimately, as frustrating as that can be as an actor and stuff, the reality is we live in a world now where I think representation does matter.

And I want to get as many voices that might feel marginalized as possible, you know, especially because there could be people out there that have never seen that.

And I remember being replaced.

I was replaced by a black Romeo.

And I have the schools I went to, you know, black actor playing Romeo.

And I thought, like, well, that'd be good for them, you know, like, I was hurt a little, like.

But that makes sense.

I mean, I.

You know, if.

Because some of these schools are.

They.

They need to see that.

Like, it doesn't feel right.

Maybe that's a barrier for them if they feel like I'm not represented on that stage.

So I.

It wasn't.

It wasn't obvious.

You know, you take it slightly personally, but you're like, well, but this is the world.

That way, if the actor was a white dude, right?

So, like, I would have thought that way anyway.

I think that's progress.

You know, I think we need to recognize we can remove ourselves from the situation, you know, and that we could recognize that that's.

That that's needed, you know, that's needed for just.

It's just.

It's needed just for validation, you know, for acceptance for all these things.

The reason that we're in our art is to communicate, and it's.

To at least for me, to acting is to tell stories.

It's to enrich humanities, to feel human, to, to, to share in this sort of, this, this, this group experience, you know, and so, and that's, that's part of the process too, you know, if not for me, for them.

One of the things that, that also struck me about the movie was because, you know, the diversity we're sort of talking about right now is sort of under the makeup.

Right, but once the person puts the makeup on, then they're a clown.

And.

But there's such a diverse range of clowns and there's, there's such a diverse range of environments for clowns.

I mean, the, the fact that clowns obviously are under a big tent, a circus, I mean, that's sort of very classic.

But then you get into, you obviously get into birthday parties and there's clowns that do birthday parts parties and clowns that don't do birthday parties.

You get into clowns that do nursing homes specifically, which was something I never thought about.

You got into clowns who go to hospitals and work with sick kids and help bring healing to families that are in great distress because their child is sick.

And then you talked earlier about, you know, churches that use clowns to, you know, help spread, you know, the gospel or what have you.

I mean, it is so many different applications of clowning and different environments.

It's incredibly rich and diverse and eclectic in that way.

Yeah.

And I think it's felt, you know, community wide.

Right.

Or worldwide.

Every, every sort of community, every country has their sort of version of a clown.

If I went to a synagogue or I went to a temple or I went to, you know, got anywhere, anywhere in la, they know who I am.

If I come in with the red nose, you know, they have that sort of person in their culture.

They know they're going to laugh at my foibles.

You know, maybe I do balloons or something.

So I think there's something that says much broader about like, we need this person in our life.

Like, we have historically had somebody like this that we could kind of watch and like laugh at because it somehow like relieves our sort of our, our communal sort of like stress retention because they're like, God, look at that guy.

You know, and we broached the doc and why this has maybe come around this person and that sort of thing.

But yeah, it's, it really is something that I think we need to continue to bolster up because I think ultimately, funny people, funny things, they speak truth to power.

And I think that we need to do our best to position those people in front of powerful people, to lampoon those people and to remind them that they should.

They will be held accountable.

And I think at a time where people are trying to cancel those voices, you know, we have more work to do.

We got it.

We've got to.

We got to figure out those obstacles and go through.

You know, a lot of comedians, you know, lament this sort of like you can't say.

You can't say anything anymore, you know, without offending somebody is like, yeah, you can't be a racist asshole.

Yeah, you're right.

I mean, you never really could, to be honest.

You just got away with it.

It a little bit.

So we're.

To public opinion.

They're saying, no, not anymore.

And you know, and without that's.

And some people want to drag us back to that place.

Like, I want to be able to say racist all the time.

That's what they want to.

No, not, not.

Not while.

Not why many of us are at the wheel or close enough to the wheel because, you know, we're not going back.

We're going forward, you know, and these are just new obstacles.

These are new obstacles for us to navigate and to figure out how to kind of, you know, this is to.

To try to get to the.

To get into this sort of like this corn maze of fun, you know, to get to the other side.

This is what we're doing now.

You know, there's a character, a popular culture character that I didn't hear mentioned in the movie.

And.

And we haven't yet spoken of him right now, but we are right now, which is, of course, the Joker.

Yeah, Nirga says Joker.

He joke too much.

Yeah.

What about the Joker?

Well, you know, it's funny that we didn't talk too much about the Joker.

He's.

I think at one point maybe we had there.

You know, I get I, as the owner and operator of Los Angeles, clown.

Every time a movie like that comes out, I'll get a call, you know, hey, what do you think about this?

And the Joker is an interesting one because he's, you know, he's.

He's not necessarily.

I mean, he's a clown.

I mean, he's a clown, right?

And he's definitely.

But he's not.

He's more of a villain.

Like, we already know he's not good.

You know, and we.

We almost in the same way, you know, he's like, he.

He's like a.

A harder version of crusty.

Like, crusty.

We kind of.

We Know, he's like this, and he's got some trauma.

You know, he's got some issues.

But we like him, right?

He's somewhat relatable and he's going to be smoking a cigarette.

And I think, if anything out of a clown, I'm very aligned to Krusty.

Like, I like Crusty a lot.

And I feel as a performer, like that's, that's kind of me, so.

But the Joker's just a little bit further in that rain.

Like, can I can really do some building this stuff, you know, So I think.

But yeah, he wasn't gross.

We talked about it, but he just kind of.

He, He.

He miraculously kind of fell through the crack.

You know, that.

That is interesting.

You know, in a lot of the footage that we had in there, we talked about the terrifier and I guess he kind of filled that spot a little bit because he's a little bit more there.

Yeah, you know, that's, that's.

He, you know, he had been mentioned, but I think maybe we just kind of lost that.

He ended up on the cutting room floor.

Like, like so many geniuses.

A little bit.

A little bit, you know.

Well, no, it was just.

That was just one of those things.

I was like, huh, I wonder, you know, because what we were saying earlier about this, you know, kind of trend right now to think about scary clowns and clowns sort of dominating, you know, the bad memes, scary clowns dominating the minds of media these days or popular culture.

I mean, certainly the Joker falls in that, I mean, to your.

Because you're right.

I mean, we know him to be a madman.

We know him to be, you know, not a nice person and not a nice clown.

So, you know, certainly he falls within that.

Within that.

So on a certain level, you did talk about Joker.

It just didn't mention him.

He never was good and went bad.

He was just always bad.

You know, I think he never.

We.

He always had, you know, we didn't.

This wasn't something that, you know, that.

That turned sour.

There's something that started sour.

And I guess, you know, I really wanted to.

And it was one of the producers ideas, well before terrifier 2 and 3 to come out to get David Howard Thornton.

And at the time I thought, like, yeah, you know, we should have a horror clan.

I mean, I would.

I could have almost stayed away.

But it's like, you can't.

This is.

This is the elephant in the room.

Like, you got to talk to this guy, you know, and then.

And strangely enough, it Was like this really humanized this person to me and what they did.

He has the same inspirations that we do.

Like I see some, you know, some, some very strong, similar.

I mean the guys.

He's got a lot of clowning ability.

I mean he could be called.

He's a clown, you know.

And I just thought that was interesting that like, other than his acts and what he does, you know, he's, he's, he's a, he's a performer that has that worries.

Where is.

Whereas wears the same badge as we do, you know.

Well, Guilford, I mean any artist or athlete at a high level, to stay at that level or to continue to improve, you know, they have to continue to exercise their craft, practice their craft, work their bodies, strengthen their muscles.

How do you as a, as a professional clown, how do you stay sharp?

How do you stay in shape?

I mean, you know, clearly, you know, having gigs will help you stay in shape and stay, you know, informed.

But what is your day and week like?

I mean, are you in the, in the studio, so to speak, practicing and honing your craft?

I probably clown, you know, two, three times a week.

I mean during, during really busy times.

Maybe I have, you know, during the summer I used to have four to five parties and maybe I have like two to three in a weekend, which is typical.

I've done over 4,000 kids parties.

You know, I kind of just do it without even really thinking about it at this point.

I mean there was years, I'll be honest, there was years where like I would be hungover or I'd be like.

And like, oh, I was out too late, I gotta do this.

I don't drink anymore.

I'm cali sober as they say.

So like it's, it's a different experience now.

Like I'm actually better at what I've done, you know, when I, and even when I was then I was just bored.

So I just been doing this for too long.

So like it's really, I don't know, it's like it doesn't feel like work, you know.

And then I just continue to kind of do it.

And then that just kind of in that same way kind of keeps me like lubricated and working at it, you know.

I wish I've got, like I said earlier, two young kids.

So I'm not really hitting any sort of like the self care or building new routines like I think I used to do, you know, I'm kind of like going back to stuff that I do or stuff that works or whatever else But.

And a lot of my focus has been.

Extra focus was put into this doc for the past eight years.

I think largely I'm still just doing the work, you know, if that makes sense.

It's still, it's.

Most of my clowning life has been on the job training.

Like, I guess most stuff that we do, you know, I was.

You know, most actors, you know, that.

That are.

That are.

That are doing it right now and working.

There's very few of them because the industry's kind of imploded.

But, like, everything they do is on the job training.

I mean, they might be highly successful at this point.

They might be stars that, you know, but all their work is on the job training.

They're just getting better because they're at work and they're just doing it more.

And that's a lot of clowning is.

You know, it's like, I'm just.

I'm at parties and I'm riffing.

I find out what works.

I'm like, oh, that's a good bit.

I gotta remember that.

I remember once putting in a.

A little squeaker on my.

On my tie and a squeak.

I was like, jesus, this is genius.

This took me 15 years to figure out, and I haven't done it in like three years.

You know, like, oh, I keep forgetting.

It's.

There's a lot of that.

Like, if I was really working on it, I could be like, oh, God, this guy's acting incredible.

But then you also don't really kind of let things just happen, you know, and so.

And I. I'm always kind of falling to the left or the right of that, you know, as a writer, as a.

As a performer, it's like we.

We want to nail it.

It.

But then the real magic is when you just kind of let it happen, you know, and like, in the beauty in.

And this is something I am trying to take to heart, and my buddy Matt Morgan really kind of instilled this in me, is I'm trying to fail better in public.

Like, I just want to fail better, you know, and not beat myself out of it.

Because that's really.

When people are engaged, is when you're in trouble, you know, that.

That they just all of a sudden are drawn to you.

If you standing out there and you drop a ball and you're just kind of looking at it, like everyone.

They're not paying attention while you're juggling, oh, shit, he dropped.

They're engaged.

You know, what's he going to do now?

How does he steer out of this.

And to me, if that's where you're always operating from in that sort of presence of mind and like, what do I do now?

I think, I mean, it's completely captivating.

It's what we should all aspire to do all the time.

Because it's, it's generally, it's, it's, it's very much moving for people.

You know, if you see somebody in public and, and you're hearing or an outburst or whatever else, you're like, you know, you're at this supermarket and you're like, the hell's going on there?

You know, and it's like that draws you.

It's like this is not the normal what's happening.

This is like something's happening here.

And I think the same thing happens on stage.

We're watching on stage.

I mean, God, I don't even know.

I haven't looked at the audience on stage in a long time.

But they could be on their phones like you drunk, you know, I have no idea that that's where the real magic happens is when you're in trouble.

That's, that's the.

You need to like, try to play in that area as long as possible.

You know, one of the things you and I have in common is that we're both dads.

I have two kids.

My daughter's 12, about to be 13.

I have a son who's 8.

You know, parenting is the scariest, most dangerous thing I've ever done.

And it's something that I can hope I take seriously, but I think I do.

But I feel like I screw up all the time.

You're a dad too, but you're also a clown.

Professional clown.

How has being a professional clown helped you be a dad?

You know, I feel like, how's it helped me being a dad?

You know, I didn't.

I always knew I loved kids, you know, but I guess I, I should have known that I love kids when I'm making money.

That should have been the clarified.

I do love kids.

You talk.

I do love kids.

And it's, it's.

But you're constantly on, you know, and to be.

I, I have a very difficult audience.

You know, any jokes I'm working, any of my material.

Imagine a lot, A lot.

Like a stand up comic.

You're like, tired of your jokes, dad.

There's a lot of that that goes on.

Not just, you know, okay, I mean, other people think they're pretty funny, but whatever.

Not us.

Go be with them if you think they're so funny.

Like okay, guys, I gotcha.

So live with you dad.

I will say, right, I will say that this has.

When I was younger and probably hungover, you know, I mean, I've been doing this for a long time.

I would probably.

If there was a kid having a problem, I would have a bad joke or like, hey, little buddy, can you be a favor.

Can you, you point to your mom or dad so I can privately judge them.

Like, if he was like, messing with me, just like, stop, you know, and then that would kind of like in the mom or dad, like, oh, okay, is Johnny doing whatever he's doing?

You know, and now it's like, because I'm a parent, I'm a lot more sympathetic, you know, I'm a lot more like, he's having a hard day.

I imagine that's his mom.

She's probably having a hard day too, you know, like.

And I'm a lot more forgiving, I think, than I used to be.

I'm less drunkle, you know, like drunk uncle and kind of more like compassionate dad, you know, if there's a kid that looks like they're having a, you know, like a phobia or some issue or like, I was just.

I immediately thought of a girl that, like, that kind of had an accident on this parachute that put out.

And, you know, and it was like, like I could see like, hey, guys, let's get up.

Let's go stand over there.

We're doing the tunnel now.

Where before I think I would have always covered like that, but before it could have, maybe I've made a joke at their expense.

I hope I wouldn't have.

But, like, I just, I.

Just a little bit more.

I don't responsible and, and, and compassionate as far as these little minds, because they are young.

And I think something that I have.

And I think I was raised, and I'm raised in your generation, and I was raised kind of.

And this is no discredit to my mom or dad, but I think in this being a kid of the 70s, I wasn't really allowed to have emotions, you know, or to cry or to be upset or, you know, it's kind of like, hey, you keep crying, take you out of this place, you know, like, so I, I, I let my kids have that, you know, Like, I don't know what to do.

A lot of the time I know what my dad would have done right now because he's talking in my head, you know, But I'm not gonna do that.

I'm just gonna let them kind of have their Freak out thing.

I'm.

Say something that I've read on a meme that my wife has sent me.

Like, I see that you're frustrated right now, and I'm totally separate, sympathetic to what you're going through.

You know, I'll do something like that.

And that was not what the younger version of me.

Hey, quit crying.

Hey, sit down.

You know, hey, you know, I don't come to where you are and slap the spatula.

You're in.

I would have said some bad joke for the parents benefits, and it would have been just callous and it would have been, you know, and it's just that kid's just having a hard time.

So it has made me a better clown just because I'm a dad now.

Have you ever stacked the audience by playing to your own kids in the audience to sway the crowd and pay them money to make sure that they scream and apply on and make you look good?

I should.

Because what I have, and I don't think it's ever been called this, but I have the magician's dream in my two sons is I have identical twin boys.

So the idea that I could, like, have one kid leave that way and then another one, like, how do you do that?

You know, I mean, it really is right for.

But my boys, to their credit, are very.

Not very precocious.

And I was kind of the same way.

They're just.

They don't like to take direction very well, you know?

Yeah.

So I have not used Karma.

Karma coming back.

I have not used them to their full potential yet.

Okay, well, there's always next week, so before we.

This has been awesome coming on, man, and taking time out of your busy schedule to be here and talk about this awesome Project America Clown.

And I just so enjoyed watching it.

Thank you for sharing it with me prior to this conversation.

Conversation.

And I know our listeners are now super.

You know, their curiosity is spiking.

They.

They're super curious and want to see it too.

What about distribution?

Where.

Where can our people see this awesome documentary?

Well, we.

We have secured distribution, which is great.

We just premiered at the end of June.

It dances with films.

We have another couple film festivals that are kind of like kind of in the pipeline, in the works.

One of them probably pretty close to the Los Angeles area, down in one of the beach communities.

We have secure distribution through Vision Films.

So the hope is everything is kind of now working its way out to become deliverables and trying to kind of get it to them.

The hope is it'd come out Right before Halloween.

Kind of like October ish, which is kind of what they want, obviously, as well.

And it just works better than right before Christmas, for obvious reasons, so.

So the hope is it'd be on whatever streaming service you'd want to watch it at, you know, either on demand or if we deal, that they can have it on Hulu directly.

So that's.

That's.

That's where we're headed.

American Clown be looking for it around October.

Fantastic.

Well, we'll be sure to spread the word.

And I feel like a VIP that I got a sneak peek before the masses, so thank you for that.

It truly is a delightful, charming, just inspiring watch.

And I felt like I really learned about an entire world that I really didn't have a clue about.

Even though clowns have been parts of my life.

So important and have given me so, so much joy, the fact that I now understand that world and your world and your community as a professional clown, you know, know.

Thank you for.

For doing this.

I know it was labor love more than anything, because, you know, there's no money in docs.

Well, I hope for your sake there is.

But, yes, it was.

It was a wonderful, wonderful watch.

Thank you so much.

Well, thank you.

And, you know, I. I think it's important.

The thing about clowns, I.

There's so many parts of clowns that I love, but I think the thing that I'm always drawn to is that, you know, I'm not alone in my stupidity.

You know, that there's other people as.

Stupid as I am, and that there's.

A unifying factor with that.

You know, that, like, that even in my stupidness, you know, still can have some beliefs and believe in something.

And.

And I. I want to take this word back, you know, I really do.

I want to, like, I want to challenge our politicians, and if they're going to use the word clown on these people, then that's.

That's fine.

But I want to see Juggle or I want to see you do something.

I want to be entertained.

Like, really entertained.

So that's my hope, is to take this word back and to.

To give it to the common man, where we can all have kind of fun and entertain ourselves.

And if you go on Instagram, you can do American Clown Movie, and it should be there, and you can be updated with anything that we have coming out and film festivals and all that sort of stuff.

And thank you, Scott, for having me, man.

I really, really appreciate it.

It's been delightful.

Well, Gilford, you're.

You're more than welcome.

Thank you for coming on and please come back anytime.

And before we go, I have to ask, is there a red nose within.

Reach?

So one of these.

And if you're a clown.

So for years, clowns have used.

Well, I guess they would say, like if you're a real clown, you'd make your own nose.

It's always like that, you know.

But we use pro nose for a long time.

A lot of clowns do.

And you put spirit gum or they add pro nose adhesive.

You take the nose and it was like a latex nose.

You put it over, you take it off and it have to gum up like spirit gum.

Does it?

Then you put it back on.

Well, the problem when you did that is like if you're.

If you have clown white on or anything, or they're just sweating, just doesn't stick.

So by the end of it looks.

Like your nose is kind of like.

Barely coming off and.

Yeah, like a total horrid sort of thing.

So now this guy right here who's a friend of mine now and helped us and in America, con red nose factory.

Okay.

He has.

He's out of Santa Cruz, I believe, and he's created this sort of of patented nose where it has kind of a septum, you know that it has.

It can kind of its septum, these things you put on.

And then it just kind of, just kind of holds on there, you know, brilliance.

So like it.

You can get sweaty and stuff and it will.

It can get knocked off, you know, but it's like the foam noses, which you can barely keep on.

This is like a much better version of this.

Now my hair is all messed up here.

Here I have remaining.

This is like a typical hat.

So the Neil's Paul Bowler, right in here.

We try to put that back on.

Let me try.

Oh, my God.

There we go.

So these are my little.

These are the two of the easiest little clown props you can kind of pull out and do kind of fun stuff.

And this is a great Neil's Paul Bowler.

You can get them on Dubai and.

Yeah, man, being a clown is a lot of fun.

If you're interested, you can always reach out to my company, Los Angeles Clown Company.

We're always looking for some few bright clowns with availability.

So, you know, it's.

Appreciate that.

I appreciate that.

I'm.

I'm often hungover, so I don't know if that will work.

Well, we'll talk about it, but Guilford, you're the best man.

Thank you so much and congratulations on this project.

I know it was a heck of an endeavor spanning 10 years, but man, you stuck the landing as clowns generally do.

So thank you so much.

Thanks Scott.

I really appreciate it man.

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