Pat Miller talks with author and keynote speaker Shola Richards about the importance of professional relationships and how they can shape the success of your photography business in this episode. Shola sheds light on how empathy and connection aren’t just nice-to-have skills—they’re the foundation of a thriving business.

Episode Highlights 🎤💡:

(3:37) - The Importance of Connecting with Your Clients

(12:31) - Communicating Effectively

(15:37) - Finding Common Ground in Conversations

Connect with Pat Miller ⬇

LinkedIn | Website

Connect with Shola Richards ⬇

Shola's Book | Website | Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn

Mentioned in this episode:

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I'm Pat Miller, and this is The Professional Photographer Podcast. Take a look around. Look through your social media feed. Listen to what people are actually saying. It feels kinda hostile out there right now, doesn't it? When the noise ramps up, it can feel isolating, frustrating, and downright disrespectful. Well, what are you gonna do about it? Do you wanna stay in your studio and ignore the outside world hoping that it just goes away? Or would you like to learn some strategies on how to navigate conversations, awkward client interactions, and discourse online? Today's guest in The Professional Photographer Podcast believes we're defined by how we treat each other. Shola Richards is an author and keynote speaker for Imaging USA 2025 in Dallas. Gonna be awesome. You gotta be there. We're gonna talk with him about his Imaging USA keynote, THE COURAGE TO GO TOGETHER™ THREE QUESTIONS TO CHANGE HOW YOU WORK, LIVE AND LEAD. He believes this message will inspire you to truly own your business while making the world a more beautiful place through your work. He also just released today his new book, Civil Unity: The Radical Path to Transform Our Discourse, Our Lives, and Our World. The Founder and CEO of Go Together Global, best-selling author, keynote speaker, coach, and consultant, Shola Richards, standing by. We'll talk with Shola after this. Shola, welcome to The Professional Photographer Podcast. Big day for you. How are you?

My man. Well, first of all, Pat, as I said to you off-screen, if I was any better, I'd be you. So yes. But I'm feeling good. Yes, today is the day where it's book birthday day. So my book, Civil Unity–wooh–hits shelves September 24th. Today's the day, and so pumped. To take a huge Word document and turn it into a physical book is honestly, like, one of the best feelings ever. So I am floating on cloud 9. I could not be any happier and so grateful that it's done and that it's out in the world. And then folks can hopefully use it to change how they interact with each other. I'm really pumped for that.

We're encouraging people to get their copy today. We're gonna talk about the book in a minute, but we're also excited because you are our keynote at Imaging USA 2025 in Dallas. THE COURAGE TO GO TOGETHER™ THREE QUESTIONS TO CHANGE HOW YOU WORK, LIVE AND LEAD. What can we expect?

Yeah. You know, it's funny. As I think about Imaging USA, I am so excited for this opportunity for so many reasons. Well, first of all, I'm gonna be talking about my favorite African philosophy, Ubuntu. Ubuntu is an African philosophy that means, I am because we are. It's the height of human kindness, human compassion, and human connectedness. So this keynote, and really this idea of Ubuntu, is like there's no place where I end and you begin. We're connected. So what does it have to do with photography and the world of building a photography business? Well, it comes into this idea that if I'm able to connect deeply with the folks who I'm entrusted to serve, my clients, or potentially other folks who you may be working with, like lighting specialists, hair specialists that we know very well, Pat, hairstylist, makeup artists, are all these folks that help you to build your business. The more deeply and authentically that you can connect with these folks, the easier it's gonna be to do your work. So it's not just about taking beautiful pictures, which obviously is important. It's the other things that are gonna allow you to build your business in a way that's not only gonna allow you to connect deeply with your clients, but to create that connection where they're gonna want to go and spread the word about your business to others on social media, in person, referrals, all the things that build your business starts with this concept of Ubuntu being connected to yourself so you can connect to others, and I'll be talking about that at Imaging USA in really stark detail on February.

I think most people, or at least many photographers, would think Ubuntu means we're connected so I can make a big sale. But it sounds like this goes deeper than that. More relationship and more emotional than just the transactional nature of I took your picture, now pay me.

Exactly. And the funny thing about that is, one of the rules that I feel interpersonally is that the people that we're working with aren't dumb. Right? We can tell, and you can tell, Pat, I can tell, too, when someone is just with me from a transactional perspective and hoping to just grab the bag of money at the end and not connect. And the irony is that's such a dumb short-sighted shortcut that doesn't work long term, unfortunately. If I connect with someone deeply, right? And I feel their connection; what that's going to do is you're gonna be getting so much more money from that person in the end. So money can never be the goal. Money is the target for hitting the goal, if that makes sense. So if your target is money, you're never gonna get it. It will always elude you. But if you're deciding, like, I'm gonna serve this person so well and create an environment where they feel seen, heard, respected, they're gonna want to come back and give you what my buddy calls money, certificates of appreciation. I've always loved this. So when someone really appreciates you, they want to give you certificates of appreciation. The more times that you serve them, the more they're gonna appreciate it, the more certificates of appreciation you get. But if your goal is just to get money, then they're like, “Ew, gross.” And it gives off a vibe, and this is the whole point of being connected. When you're connected to someone, you can sense the energy of like, “Oh, she's super transactional. She's, I don't feel connected to her.” Then you go to a different photographer who will give you that authentic connection that we're talking about. So, yes, it's more than the pictures, and it's more than the money. It's connection that allows you to do your best work and for others to see that you do your best work as well.

You're gonna be our keynote, but I wanna talk to you like a subject for a minute.

Please.

You had your picture taken. You're a published author. You've done a bunch of stuff. Your website looks great. You've clearly used professional photographers before.

Oh yeah.

Can you think of a time when you had that connection with a photographer and as the subject, how that made you feel and how it went? Does that make sense?

Oh, my gosh. Does it ever make sense? And it's such a powerful experience. And a lot of these things seem so simple. I really do believe the biggest solutions, the best solutions are the ones that are super-duper simple. So for example, I had a photo shoot, and I had many, and I can't even think of a, I've had maybe 1 or 2 bad photography experiences, but the overwhelming majority of them are super positive. And what I'm, a good example of this, most people, I'll speak for myself; I'm very insecure about a lot of things. And getting my picture taken is one of those things. I don't know how to sit. I have no idea what to do with my hands when I take a picture. I have no idea. None. It's the strangest thing. And I'm like, it has a pocket, arms crossed. I don't know. So when a photographer gives me positive reinforcement, it's like, “Oh, perfect. Yes. Yes. Just like that. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Alright. Bigger smile. Okay. Oh, perfect. You nailed it. Just turn a little bit to the right. Okay. Just like that. Look over my head just a little bit. That's it.” I cannot say enough around hearing those yeses, hearing those moments of, like, “Oh, my gosh, I'm actually nailing it.” It makes me feel so, so good. And when they're going through the camera and they're flipping the, “Oh, my gosh, that's perfect. Come around the camera. Take a look at this.” And it makes you feel like, “Oh, oh, my gosh, I know what I'm doing.” And it builds my confidence, but that connection allows me to feel seen and feel heard. And you think about these photos, right? These photos are meant hopefully to beautify the world in some way. The world becomes more beautiful with really nice photos, but it's deeper than that for the person who's the subject. I'm gonna take these photos. I'm gonna put them up on the wall of my house, of my family. And these are something that's gonna bring joy to our family for years and years and years to come. So the deeper I'm able to connect with someone in that moment, whether it's just saying, “Hey, good job, or hey, this is good,” it changes everything. On the flip side real quick, Pat, we all have drama in our lives. This is a weird time that we're living in the world, and we may not feel good or positive or uplifted. When I'm having that energy, and it's like, “Okay, good. We're done with that shot. Alright. Let's go to the next one. Let's get this one over, or let's get this one done.” And it feels more like I'm an annoyance, or I don't feel like I'm really, my presence is valued. And that's gonna show up in the pictures, and that's gonna make these pictures look less good, for lack of a better way of putting it. And I wanna work less with this person in the future, if again, at all. That's the power of these small interactions that can make a huge difference. And not just in the outcome of the photos, but how I feel about the photographer as well.

When we were reading about your talk, it's very emotional. It's gonna change the way that we think, the way that we have our interpersonal relationships with our subjects, and you're gonna address AI. And I saw that on the paper. I'm like, AI, oh, authentic intelligence. Okay. Tell us about that and how it comes to life for a photographer.

Yeah. It's funny because I am not skilled enough or capable or qualified to talk about artificial intelligence. I do know that it's disrupting a lot of folks' work and how they build their business, etcetera, etcetera. I totally get that. I'm talking about the other, as you already mentioned, authentic intelligence. I gotta explain a little bit why I do this. So a lot of folks are future thinking, like, “Hey, AI is on the horizon, artificial intelligence. I gotta figure out how to harness this and make sure it doesn't disrupt my business.” I tend to look in the past. Like, what are the things that we have not seemed to figure out yet, that if we did figure it out, we would be just rolling in success and happiness and peace? And I think the one thing that we really struggle with is authentic intelligence. We're so busy swiping through our phones and not making real connection with people that I think one of the biggest disruptors that we can do is authentically connect with someone. And speaking with the phone, and let's talk about this for a moment, I think if you're a photographer and you're doing your work, you're probably sharing it on social media, most likely on Instagram because that's really what it's designed for, to share beautiful pictures. One of the things that I talk about often, I think about this when I talk a lot of my photography buddies, is this question around, do I keep my photography brand separate from my individual brand, who I am as a person? And I found in my own personal experience, your mileage may vary, is that the folks who've been able to really authentically show up as who they are as a person and have that blend with their photography brand, it's easier for people to grow their business because I can connect with you more easily. I know what you're about, and I feel like that connection is such a powerful thing. If I happen to see someone who I really vibe with on a level, like there's a photographer, [10:19] on Instagram a few months ago. And this seems silly, but she's like, I love French fries. And she would take pictures of French fries. I'm like, I'm a French fry guy. So I'm like, I love you already that you love French fries. It's so silly, but it's such a connection. It's a small thing. You see, I'm an animal lover. Been an animal lover my whole life. So when I see folks who have sweet dogs or cats they love, I feel like, alright, and this may not be fair, but I'm like, that's a good person. They love animals. And then, but whatever it is, it's an authentic way of using your intelligence to connect with another person. And to get back to your earlier point, Pat, around the transactional aspect, folks who are very transactional or don't connect, or maybe more importantly, are unwilling to read the room. And this is a big part I feel of photography when you're working with a subject or a client, and you can sense that the mood's a little bit off. So you're just like, “Alright, we're here. Let's get started. Hey, Pat. Just wanna check. Are how are you doing, man? You good? I just wanna make sure everything's okay.” That's the authentic intelligence. “Yeah. I mean, it's been a rough day. Just not really quite into it right now.” Like, “Okay. Do you need to take a moment? Or I wanna make sure that you're feeling best. Is there anything I can do to help serve you in the moment to make sure that you are showing up in the way that you want to? Do you need some time? Let me know what you wanna do.” I feel seen and heard. You could pick up on the fact that I wasn't feeling that great, and that allows me to be more authentic and more real with you when I feel like, “Ooh, I'm struggling. I need a break. I'm not quite sure.” These conversations allow us to do our best work, and it can only come when we're authentic. And that's the AI that I like to talk about, the authentic intelligence, that allows us to connect more deeply with the folks that we're working.

Okay. Are you seeing this and feeling this? We get to hang out with Shola at Imaging USA in Dallas. You gotta be there because we're gonna hear the keynote, and then we get to ask him questions and hang out, and it's going to be exceptional. But if you're super fired up thinking I need more Shola in my life, today is a big day. The new book is out today. We can learn from you right away. It's called Civil Unity: The Radical Path to Transform Our Discourse, Our Lives, and Our World. Why did you write this book right now?

Oh, man. Jeez. How long has this podcast episode, Pat? You know, I'll summarize it. The world's on fire. I think that we are in such a weird place that we can't communicate with each other effectively. I think one of the biggest things that I'm the most passionate about is our ability to disagree, or right now, it's our inability to disagree without disrespect. We see folks who may view the world differently than us and decide to write these people off. I cannot be around these people. I don't want to work with them. I don't want to be near them. And unfortunately, expecting the entire world to view the world in the same way that we do is an exercise in immaturity and futility. It's just not gonna happen. So instead of hating these people and cursing their existence, shouldn't we try something else? Can we figure out a way that we can coexist? Now, this book was written with the idea that we are going to be inhabiting this world with people who do not see the world that we do, as we do. But how can we still retain some level of respect? And I wanna be so clear with this, Pat. Because a lot of people even hear this, like, oh, so you're saying that we need to be just respect the racists and the misogynists and the antisemites and the, absolutely not. That's what I'm talking about. There is a lot of space before we get to the fringes of those folks. I'm talking about just the general day-to-day stuff that we need to master so we can do our best work. And I feel like in the photography business, the ability to manage different personalities in a way that's civil, thoughtful, and respectful is gonna allow us to build our business even better. And that book gives you every single interpersonal tool on how to do so.

That disagreement without disrespect.

Yes.

That's a bit you talk in the book because I had the opportunity to have a sneak peek. Thank you very much.

You did. You did.

Yes. You talked about indifference seeping in, which I thought was such an eloquent point that just saying I don't wanna care about these people and I'm gonna be indifferent is not the way to go. You are encouraging engagement to restore civility. That's just such a beautiful point. When you encourage people to do this, how does it make them feel when they're actually engaging with people but not disrespecting them?

It's powerful because it shifts your mindset. Right? Is it, this idea of indifference is such a big thing. It's like, gosh, what's the point of showering? I'm only gonna get dirty again. I was like, well, yeah. Hey, that's life. The whole challenge with this idea of leaning into indifference, you look at this whole world of incivility and rudeness and divisiveness and political awfulness in the world, you just wanna opt out. Like I, there's nothing I can do to affect change, so what's the point? But when you choose to engage in civility, this idea of active demonstrations of respect towards others, it has a real contagious effect. And it's interesting because what we've done in the past is the opposite. You know what? You can't get people to be kinder, so I'm just gonna go and be I'm gonna double down on my attack. It's like, well, here's the problem with that. If your default mode is to attack people, then only a few things are happening. One, the other person is gonna become more entrenched in their troublesome beliefs. Two, you've reduced, if not eliminated, the possibility of other people seeing the merits of your position. And three, you've created more challenging discourse that we're trying to fight against that's making our world more toxic. All three of these things aren't gonna help. But to your earlier point, Pat, when you do engage in civil conversation, it creates this environment that not only do I feel good, it allows the other person to possibly find some common ground with you, which is impossible if you attack them. Right? Possibly find some common ground, and most importantly, it's contagious. When people do communicate in that way, it makes the person who's used to attacking think twice, going, Wow, that guy didn't attack me when we had that conversation. That's interesting. Maybe I should be able to find a way to do the same. And we slowly turn this barge around us drifting in the sea toward a different direction. Is it a slow process? Absolutely. Does it work? Absolutely. Doing the opposite? Unfortunately, pushes us farther away from the goals. We need to lean into doing this work so we can feel better about ourselves and help others to do the same as well.

The thing that I liked about the book is that the world's on fire, and you didn't have people just throw up their hands. It seems to be a call to action. No, we must model civility.

Yes.

We need to encourage others to do the same as someone that sees the world from that perspective. And the book is out today. Hopefully, people are gonna go buy it. Click the link in the description. Are you curious if people will take you up on your call to civility? Or how do you feel about such a purposeful encouragement of no, we must act? How do you feel about that being in the world today?

Yeah. I feel great because the reason why I wrote this book in the first place is because a lot of people are like, I'm just exhausted. I'm exhausted by the fact that I'm fearing going to Thanksgiving a couple of months because I know it's my family's split along political lines, and I don't know how we're gonna be able to interact just a few short weeks after the election for Thanksgiving. I have to work in a workplace where I deal with people who are extremely toxic. They're bullies. They're not good people, or they're hard to communicate with, and I don't know how to coexist with these people. My mental health is in a position where I'm feeling really sad and depressed. I need something. So this book, when I've heard folks who had the chance to read it in advance are like, Man, this gives the practical ways to really turn this around and to give some ways to feel not just better about our discourse, but teaching people how to disagree better. The idea of dehumanizing, disrespecting, and destroying other folks is an exhausting way to live. And people will tell me, I just want to be able to get back to the point where we can disagree and still, and not hate each other afterward. How we can communicate in a way that's gonna allow us to feel seen and heard and respected. They're craving this, and they want this. I'm craving this. I wrote this book, and if I'm gonna be really honest, never really admitted this before. I wrote this book for me. You know, I wrote this book, this is the book that I wish I had when I was struggling with a lot of my mental health challenges. And I wanted something that I felt in the throes of my depression could help me to find hope. That's why I wrote this book. And so a lot of authors don't say that. I wrote this book because I wanna serve, of course, I wanna serve people. But in the end, I needed something that I wish I had when I was younger. So when folks will read it, they're gonna find out that it's pretty authentically written and deeply personal with some incredibly practical tools that you can use today, tomorrow, and for the rest of your lives.

The book is called Civil Unity. It's the right book for the right time. We will be cheering you on for a big launch day today in the 1st month and up until February when we get to see you at Imaging USA.

Yeah. Let's go.

I know that the book business can be funny. What's the best place to get a copy? Would that be your website or Amazon? Or what do you think?

Oh, yeah. The book business is always funny. So I have a website, just civilunity.com, which I was lucky to be able to grab. So if you go there, it gives you options on where you wanna buy the book, so you can buy it wherever you choose. Some folks are like, oh, Amazon gross or whatever it is, they can choose whatever option makes the most sense. Now, they're all there. And, hopefully, in the audible version, audio was just recently recorded, so it'll be up there as well. So very, very excited to have you choose whatever option you want to consume the book.

Shola Richards, congratulations on the new book. We can't wait to see you at Imaging USA.

Let’s go.

Of course, thank you for joining us on The Professional Photographer Podcast.

Pat, you're amazing. Appreciate you, friend.

Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of The Professional Photographer Podcast. You're coming to Imaging USA. Right? I mean, you just got to after that interview, come on. You gotta go see him. Shola's gonna be awesome. We'll see you there in Dallas, February 2025. Before you go, can I ask a small favor? If you liked this episode, did you click subscribe yet? If you haven't clicked subscribe on whatever platform you're watching us or listening to us on, we would really appreciate it, and tell us what you liked about this episode. Leave us a comment. That way, we'll know what's working and what you wanna hear more of as we continue to produce the podcast. Now, if you're not yet a member of Professional Photographers of America, you're missing it. Because PPA offers incredible resources like equipment insurance, top-notch education, and a supportive community of photographers ready to help you succeed. It's perfect for photographers who are serious about growing their business in a sustainable and profitable way. At PPA, you belong here. Discover more about membership at ppa.com. I'm Pat Miller, the Founder of the Small Business Owners Community. Thank you for joining us on this journey. We appreciate your support, and we'll be back soon with more tools to help you build your business with The Professional Photographer Podcast. See you next time.