The Secret to Happiness is to make someone happy! While we build a sharing economy, the industry behind Donor ship is still a weak link. Imagine being able to track your donation to find if it reach the hands of those it was intended for. Seems too good to be true? Well Rasmus Scheuer, Co-founder and Chief Charity Officer at Pawthereum discusses how team Pawthereum is using Web3 to increase accountability, delivery and transparency. From its humble origins in Latin America to working with NGOs for crypto adoption, this episode leaves you begging for more. You won't want to hit the 'Paws' button on this episode.

Shifting the Donor Economy to Web3 - Pawthereum

Participants:

• JP (CMO of AdLunam)

• Rasmus Scheuer (Co-founder and Chief Charity Officer at Pawthereum)

00:22

JP

Welcome to Diving into Crypto. This is JP from AdLunam Inc. bringing you everything about web3. AdLunam is the industry's first IDO investment platform using an Engage to Earn mechanism with a Proof of Attention model that is unique to the industry, allowing you to get allocations based on your attention. That being said, we are welcoming you to the show ladies and gentlemen. And before we flag off, I'd like to remind you that views expressed on this program belong to that of the speaker and is meant for education purposes only. In case we get logged off the current program, please go back to our handles at AdLunam Inc. And you will find a new one to get you back onto the show.

01:10

JP

Feel free to use those emojis, that's what they're there for. If you find a piece of information that our guest speaks about that is really dear to you and I know that this show is going to be full of heart and it's going to talk about how we are shifting to the donor economy over to Web3. It's something that could revolutionize how we look at changing the world today. And to do that, let me introduce very briefly we have Rasmus Scheuer, our guest representing Pawthereum and it's a very interesting name. Of course it's got a very interesting team, but more importantly, it's got a lot of heart behind it and I know that we're going to learn so much. So, ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, let us welcome our guest today, Rasmus.

02:02

Rasmus

03:15

JP

Okay, that's great. So Rasmus, I understand that you're a tech founder, but how did you transition out of being into mainstream tech? What got you to web3?

03:27

Rasmus

04:28

Rasmus

And I remember diving a little bit more into it and I got on the phone, this was at the time where exchanges didn't really exist. So in order to buy bitcoin, you kind of over the phone, you had to trust this guy, right, because you had to put in your credit card details in order to buy these bitcoins. And of course, I didn't do it at the time, but as time grew and I started to see more traction on bitcoin itself, I started becoming interested. And I've always, from an investor's point of view, tried to diversify my assets a little bit. So I slowly, gradually started stepping my toes into the water of bitcoin. And then we started seeing other cryptocurrencies, Ethereum, all these other things, and then just a firm believer in the fundamentals of why blockchain technology was built. And today it's probably one of my biggest holdings.

05:36

Rasmus

They're all in blockchain technology today and just seeing the space develop, the technology develop entire ecosystem. Yeah, so I've been here for quite some time, I think, in terms of actually starting a project within Web3, because there's a big difference about being an investor and then actually starting a project. Pawthereum was the first project that I've been involved with. And what actually triggered this is, and you have to understand this about me, I lived in so many places around the world due to companies, due to different sort of projects. And I had a project in South America, and this time was super stressful, a big startup, some funding coming in, and all of a sudden having a big responsibility towards investors and board meetings and all this, sort know. And in South America, a huge problem is like, they had a big issue with street dogs.

06:47

Rasmus

Street dogs everywhere overpopulated with street dogs. There's a bunch of animal shelters, even like unregistered shelters, but just people trying to do good for these animals. And for me, at this time in my life, in a way to sort of distress, I volunteered at one of these dog shelters and I wanted to give them a donation. And I was like, it doesn't really make any sense because for me to transfer from my bank account in Denmark to Shimla, it would take a week for the funds to get transferred. It will cost me a bunch in fees. And I was like, guys, do you have by any chance a crypto wallet? I'll just donate crypto to you. And that's actually how we started, or at least for me, I started seeing the opportunities with crypto for charity, it's borderless secure, transparent, cheap, relatively cheap. And yeah, that was kind of some of the fundamentals that we built Pawthereum on.

07:59

Rasmus

So, yeah, it's been quite a journey.

08:03

JP

Yeah, sounds like a fantastic use case, especially solving a problem when it comes to being able to give without the logistics of it getting in the way.

08:18

Rasmus

It’s super important. And I think one of the things, if you just look at regular giving for charities, one of the things usually comes up is the lack of transparency. So actually, when you do make a donation, okay, you transfer money to a bank account and that's it. You're not really able to showcase the donation going out. And actually, nonprofits have a huge benefit to prove how the funds are being spent. Of course, it's up to them. With blockchain, we can make it transparent so you see all the transactions coming in. There is still some responsibility on the end of the nonprofit to then actually go out and showcase that the fonts are being used the way they are intended to. But I think the blockchain really solves a lot of these issues in terms of lack of trust to the nonprofits and in terms of, did you really donate what you said?

09:15

Rasmus

Did you donate it? If we're talking about corporate social responsibility, you can just link to Ether Scan or the tax on whatever chain, but this is donation, right? And then again, one of the main for us, I think a lot of the organizations, the small shelters that we talk to, they are in positions where sort of everything is coming in. They needed the funds yesterday, and we can make that happen in less than a minute. They don't have to wait a week and hope that everything goes through. I really think for charities, I mean, blockchain technology is just a match made in heaven, in my opinion.

10:07

JP

Indeed. Indeed. Because in most cases, a lot of these organizations that live on donorship, right, they have quarterly reports, half yearly reports, maybe annual reports. And you got to wait till that point of time to find out if your money is actually being spent on the real reason that you're making the donation. So when you talk about it being transparent, you can have transparency up almost up to the minute, right. You know, okay, the money has been received, you get an idea at the end of it how much is actually spent on doing something. And you also have a very clear picture of one of the biggest black boxes, the black holes, when it comes to charities, which is how much are they actually spending on what they call administration.

10:53

Rasmus

Exactly. There will always be workarounds for a nonprofit if they're not transparent, but that we would easily be able to smell. What we have seen with some of the donations that we have made is actually also the willingness from the nonprofit because this is what they struggle with in the day to day life. So actually when we place a donation, they're really good with updating us and updating our community on how the funds are being spent. And for us to see that we're actually making a real difference and actually see those funds that we send today being put into good use tomorrow is just one of the biggest gifts you can have.

11:40

JP

Indeed. Indeed, indeed. And once again, I think that your point when it comes especially to transparency, fosters more trust in a space where you're virtually blind, at least up to a particular point to where exactly that money is going. Right?

11:56

Rasmus

Exactly.

11:58

JP

Yeah. Okay, so I'm curious to understand, you know, you told us the story that you were in South America, you saw that they had, of course a major issue when it came to this. There was one NGO organization that was able to solve that and you wanted know, help them out and it was a challenge. But I have to ask, right, Rasmus as a person had his heart open out at that moment. But what I want to know is why was it that cause?

12:32

Rasmus

What is the question there, again?

12:35

JP

Yeah, why was it that cause? Was there something that you felt an affinity to? Was there something that you saw at that moment that it clicked in your head and you said, this is the cause that I want to do something about?

12:47

Rasmus

Yeah, I've always been a big animal lover growing up on a farm with horses and dogs and cats and everything I remember from early childhood, I mean, if I saw an injured bird, I would take it in and try to foster it. So animals always have a close place in my heart. And I think what really tricked early Pawthereum was that we actually got together a bunch of, I guess you can call us like internet dudes. I mean, just basic nerds in all walks of life, but with a shared mission that if we can build a tool that will be able to provide aid for animal welfare, why don't we try and do it? That's basically how it all came together. The cause of animals is super important. And also I think this is like regardless of blockchain technology, this would have been something that I would have always supported and tried to look into opportunities to bring some, I don't know, like a philanthropy aspect towards animal welfare.

14:10

Rasmus

And don't get me wrong, because there is no charity in the world that is wrong. Like all help is needed no matter the aspect of it. May that be humanitarian relief or emergency relief or diseases or whatever you can possibly think of, all help is needed. But I think that one of the most overlooked, especially when it comes to human crisis around the world. And we see with the global change and we see all these other things. The biggest muscle around the world are humanitarian, basically. So often we tend to forget or we don't pay as much attention to animal welfare because they sort of get left behind because humans are important. And if a regular donor goes out and gives, I don't know, $50 to a refugee camp or an earthquake somewhere in the world for the rescuers or anything, you have done your part and just animal welfare is overlooked.

15:21

Rasmus

And especially when it comes to small local shelters where I've been blessed, like having the opportunity to meet these guys who are actually out in the field every day, so to speak, doing the hard work where they don't necessarily have the know how and the machine to actually go out and fundraise. So if we can put these guys on the map and actually make sure that they get the help that they need, our mission is a success.

15:54

JP

Epic. Okay. Yeah, I feel exactly the resonance in what your ethos and your intent has been with Pawthereum and how you start. And I find that fascinating because philosophically, as a species, we sort of dominate the Earth, right? I mean, it's a given, but we also have a moral responsibility in many ways to be able to take care of the other species that are there. Considering what we're doing to the planet, when it comes to especially looking after animals or especially looking after any of the causes, like you're saying, let's not segment it so much to just one side. But when it comes to that particular aspect, I find it fascinating that across the planet, out of 7 billion people, there's only 1.4 that actively donate on a regular basis. That's what these statistics say, at least, right? Of course. These are the numbers recorded that many people and organizations are actually doing something.

17:14

Rasmus

I lost you there for a second. What was the last thing?

17:17

JP

Yeah. Can you hear me now?

17:20

Rasmus

Yeah.

17:21

JP

All right. Okay. So people are happy to make investments. They're just not too happy about making donations. Right. And of course, the objective to bring people onto the same page is a very important part in getting a community close together. I understand that may have been a challenge for you, but tell us a little about that. Tell us a little about how you bring people together towards a cause like this.

17:51

Rasmus

Yeah, of course. And just to round that one off, like looking at the statistics of how many people are actually donating, of course I believe that more could. But one of the things is that I would never point fingers because I do believe that we are all in certain situations in life where it might not be an option that you have funds to donate, a lot of people struggle and especially it's increasing in these times. So I would never point fingers towards that. I think the secret sauce actually when we start tapping into what we can actually do with technology is of course individual donations are always appreciated and this is something you should do if you can and if you have the opportunity to do so. Absolutely no force. I think where we can really start seeing a difference is when we look into automated charity.

19:03

Rasmus

So if we build a financial system where we have these micro transactions for charity as a default, this is when we will start to see the real value. Because then we don't have to point fingers at anybody, we don't have to point at billionaires. I mean, donate if you want to, but we have an entire system backing the world up where we're actually choosing to do good by default. Imagine if Visa had a small like they take a small cut every time you use credit card. A transaction so small that we never really realize it. If we could do the same for a charity pool, not just necessarily animal welfare, but everything that we wish to support. You have to think in the perspective of volume. If we can generate enough volume on a financial system that does good, I believe this is when we could actually change the world.

19:59

Rasmus

But to come back to you're talking a little bit of the sense of community, I think especially in the case of Pawthereum, one of the biggest challenges for any new crypto project is to build a community. And it's a little bit the same story about the question what came first, the chicken or the egg? Is a crypto project really anything without a community? I don't know. But communities are important and for us, when we first launched, it actually went pretty quick for us, like building an organic community. And in a sense it probably has something to do with if you present a mission that enough people will rally behind to do something good, if you give them the opportunity to do good, they will support it. And that's basically what we did with Pawthereum. We had no idea how this would go, but just giving the opportunity to say, okay, we have a cost that we're fighting for.

21:21

Rasmus

We want to build a financial tool that supports animal welfare and that attracted people the opportunity to do good. And I think when we first launched, the way that our basic product actually worked was that we implemented a tax on all trades. So of course were depending on volume. But you knew that by selling or buying ethereum, there would be a small fee taken into our charity pool that we would then donate from. So actually, we presented people with an opportunity to say, okay, if you're in Crypto, you know that this is volatile. And you know that, okay, I have $20 to spend. This might go to zero. Or I'm hoping for 100 X, but indication this should go to zero, I would at least know that I've contributed to doing something good. But then the big challenge for us also with any new project is, okay, so how do we gain credibility?

22:24

Rasmus

Like, okay, we're saying that we want to support animal welfare. How do we actually do this and how do we make this happen on an ongoing basis to actually prove and showcase that we're not going, we're true to the mission. And that took a lot of work. I mean, that really took a lot of work because when we first launched and we started seeing funds coming into the charity pool, of course we were super excited. Like, oh my God, this is working, people like this. And of course we had a responsibility in fostering and nurturing the community and involving them. After all, we are community driven. Like we're trying to turn into a full DAO where it's just an automated process of everyone who wants to be involved. But one of the first struggles that we never anticipated was basically, okay, so we have these funds to donate, who can we donate them to?

23:20

Rasmus

And now we are seeing today that crypto fundraising is the biggest or fastest growing donation method today. Which is kind of crazy because two, three years ago it was almost nonexistent. You would see no local shelters, no smaller organizations be able to receive this kind of funds coming in. Right realized, okay, we have a big responsibility in actually educating on the benefits of blockchain, the benefits of crypto donations and the technical aspect of it, like how do you actually set it up and why should you do it? So this is what we've been doing. We have two aspects to our project and one is building out our own ecosystem, looking into ways of developing products that benefit the mission where there will always be charity involved. And then we have the whole other factor because with a project like ours, we are depending on the real world because we have a receiver in the other end.

24:34

Rasmus

So it is just super important for us to keep educating and onboarding these nonprofits and just baby steps. It's basically holding their hand and where the first step will always be to, okay guys, you need to diversify your donation revenue because you have a very big untapped demography in crypto that you need to utilize. And once we start seeing the value of this, then we can start looking into how are we going to then take the next step and create web3 donor experiences for you? How can you actually utilize this to create experiences and create storytelling? Because this is what they live on. Yes, it's been quite interesting. We had a big breakthrough in the beginning because we did make a few very large donations and we had some amazing partners to donate these funds to. And of course, they were a little bigger organization, so they had sort of the fundraising muscles.

25:43

Rasmus

So they were already, if not ready to receive crypto donations, they were at least looking into how to implement it and set it up. So we made a few donations in the size of $100,000, which is just an amazing feeling, really incredible to be able to just do that. But it also added a lot of credibility to our project that were able to do this. I mean, we got nominated at one point by the Scottish government for collaboration with a partner in Scotland. And that was when we really started seeing the interest, especially from the world of nonprofits. I don't remember how many phone calls we had every single day for organizations calling us up and we're like, can we get considered for a donation? We're always like, yes, of course. Can you receive crypto? And the answer was always no. We're like, okay, yeah, we have a lot of work ahead to make this happen.

26:51

Rasmus

But we're seeing it now. We are seeing it becoming sort of I'm not going to say a normal way of receiving donations, I'm not going to call it mainstream just yet. But we are seeing a large amount of nonprofits implementing crypto fundraising because after all, giving should be easy and they have to meet the donors where they are. And we're looking at into crypto is the younger audience and this is the future. And it's just really also restoring a little bit of faith in humanity. When you look at the entire web3 space, how many projects have been designed now to do good and actually have a cause and whatever profit that they make, a portion of that will be donated towards that cause. And then to see the supporters rally behind that cause, it really restores a little bit of faith in my opinion, on where we're going with the world.

27:56

JP

Yeah, you have enough of people that feel strongly about a cause, right? And it's really disheartening to know that something as simple as the logistics of it becomes a barrier between you and the cause that you want to support. And it's exactly like you're saying when you ask these organizations, do you have the ability to accept crypto? And they say no. And most of the time it's not because they don't have it set up. Most of the time it's just because you don't have a regulatory framework that allows them to receive that and off ramp it into the system that they're using, the fiat system that they're using, maybe in their country. But are there other challenges that you may have come across for them not accepting crypto?

28:51

Rasmus

Because you're absolutely right. And luckily today there's also a lot of great platforms out there. We're working with a bunch of them where they can easily tap into accepting crypto but where they will never see cryptocurrency. It will be auto converted to fiat and then paid to their accounts. So things are happening to make this happen. Some of the biggest challenges that I have faced when I've been talking to my contacts, especially in larger organizations for the smaller shelters, they're quick on the feet to adapt crypto and set up everything that they need in order to make it happen because they just really need the with the big organization, we're seeing a lot of bureaucracy. So they have a lot of different decision makers that have to be involved. And the two things that I have been faced with the most is one that we're all pretty native in Web3 so we have a feeling towards everything that we do.

30:00

Rasmus

But the other end, there's still a certain stigma around crypto for sure. There's a lot of uncertainty and fear and doubt and I mean, in a bear market like we've been seeing for this last year and a half or two years, this has not helped to sort of showcase what crypto can do and the trust towards it. So there is a lot of time going into educating and say but guys, you really need to be ready. And I think that we are starting to see a shift where it is more positively appreciated and people are curious but there's still a long way to go. I think for us, our track record of donations is really something that is helping us getting I'm not going to call it a foot in the door because we don't want to force technology on anyone. But if we call up an organization and say, hey, guys, we want to donate ten k to you, but it has to be in Cryptocurrency, right?

31:15

Rasmus

Then they're interested. Then we have to teach them how to set it up. So yeah, we also been faced with a lot of environmental impact especially with power consumption and everything and I think with Pawthereum switching to POS that really helped sort of manifest that hey, we are pretty sustainable, you guys are watching YouTube, it takes pretty much the same power consumption. But one of the things that's most important to these guys, this is something we need to understand and need to respect and this is why things take time. They are nothing more than their brand and their credibility. So in order to, I mean, they just work slow. They're very conservative and they're playing it by the book because they cannot risk taking a chance of ruining their reputation. And this is something that I respect and that I understand and at the end of the day, we're not being faced today with as much skepticism as we used to in the beginning.

32:36

Rasmus

I think again with the growing philanthropical ecosystem growing in Blockchain and Web3 and other projects doing good and dows being built and everything. It's so much on the radar now that this is no longer a thing to ignore. And if you want to meet your donors where they are from a nonprofit perspective, you also have to look into crypto because things are definitely happening.

33:10

JP

Of course. And I appreciate the fact that when you say that these organizations, of course, they're very strongly reputation based in this particular space, where you have more regulations that work against you when it comes to the donation economy, when it comes to stakeholders in that space, a reputation based metric, there are just so many variables that they can't account for. Right. And when you think about someone's reputation being tarnished or it going into the wrong hands or even receiving money or donations from people that don't have the best reputations, you can understand that there's always going to be some skepticism. They also don't have these NGOs don't always have the legal firepower and the backing that comes with it because they work on very tight budgets. So those factors are understandable. But what I think is interesting is also given that your group at Pawthereum has the ability to choose the kind of projects or choose the kind of organizations that it would like to make that donation to, because you get so many requests, I'm curious to know, how do you guys just pick the ones that make the most amount of sense? What's it like at that coffee table when you are deciding?

34:46

Rasmus

And good question. We do have a sort of a process of verifying the organization. Let's get that out of the way. We need to make sure that you are who you say you are. Right? But then it's actually on a case by case, we try to involve, first of all, our community where they want to see us be supported. And one of the most important things for us, and especially to me because I have a title that I don't think existed before Pawthereum, like Chief Charity Officer. But try to maintain that healthy balance of okay, if we do have the means and the funds to make a big donation to a big organization, of course, let's try and look into that. That typically comes with it has benefits for all. They're going to receive funds to do bigger things and bigger projects that they want to support, that they are supporting.

35:59

Rasmus

And in return we can get some press because it makes ways if they have a bigger social following or we're doing newsletters and there will be stuff that we can offer to our community that they can come and visit, all these other things.

36:14

JP

Right.

36:15

Rasmus

But on the other hand, we also have the majority of the donations that we're making are to the local shelters all around the world. And for me, that's the most important thing that I can do. We just have so many good stories to share, like a local. Dog shelter in Romania. In the outskirts of Romania, because of where they're located, transportation is hard and in the wintertime they cannot be guaranteed that all the food and the medicine supplies will arrive in time because they cannot afford to buy in bulk. So they don't know how they're going to manage throughout the winter. And let's say where a big donations of big organization can do so much. A small nation for a shelter in Romania can mean the world. It can mean make it or break it of the lives of animals over a wintertime. So it's always important to keep that healthy, balanced, and I think that we've all learned so much being involved with this project since day one.

37:29

Rasmus

I remember the early days when we started talking to these local shelters and these amazing people that we actually get to meet, the ones who are making the difference in their daily lives, out working with the animals and supporting them and taking care of them. I found out I have a pretty hard time crying, right? But when you had these conversations with these people, for me, these guys are the real heroes. And we would basically always end up in tears in a way, because it was just touching that we know these people are out there, but we're behind computers every day and we're working with tech and we're doing all these sort of things and we don't really see them. We know we want to support, but we don't really get the essence of the importance of the work that they're doing. So to listen to their stories and how they have devoted their lives for rescuing animals is just incredible.

38:26

Rasmus

And then to be able to round up a call and say, hey, you know what, we can donate 5K or 1OK or 2K and just see the reaction that the importance of it's a lot of money still. Let's never lose the perspective of money. But just seeing like, compared to 100K donation, that maybe that will be a little less personal, but where, you know, with the smaller donation, you're making a huge difference.

38:59

JP

You got to hand it to these NGOs. So often they are able to stretch a budget that if these large scale Fortune 500 companies were able to do, I think you'd have a lot more of the planet being saved just by virtue of being able to really draw out as much as you can from the finance that you've got. And hats off to these heroes to be able to do that, because it really takes a lot of ingenuity creativity to be able to stretch a budget that far. I can totally understand where you're coming from when you say, okay, even an amount of $2,000, where a large number of people would say, hey, you know what, that's fine, I don't mind giving it. But for animal shelter in Romania, at the outskirts, where for them it's likely something that would have made a difference across the entire that's a really huge impact.

40:08

JP

Now you also mentioned that you have more stories like that. Can you share with us one more that's been as impactful or that stands out in your mind in this particular situation?

40:23

Rasmus

Yeah, there's actually a few and we have so many to pick from but I just want to thank our community for also being amazing. I have two super sweet stories one was really heartfelt, I mean both of them were but one especially when the wall broke out in Ukraine that we're all aware of what's happening. I have been in previous contact with a few animal shelters in Ukraine, getting to know them and keeping in touch, assisting them with crypto, all these other things, what we do. And when the war broke out, one of the animal shelters got hit by the wall, so it was basically bombed. And there was a lot of animals that died. A lot of animals were injured and needed immediate assistance, both in terms of medical supplies, but also food and just a place to be. And I remember talking to the guys running this specific shelter when they were hiding in a bomb shelter.

41:41

Rasmus

That was the only time that we could be connected. And at this time, we didn't have funds to actually donate from Pawthereum because we have, like, a philosophy that what comes in goes out, basically. And we just made a few big donations prior to this. And I was like, okay, but how are we ever going to help these guys because this is so important? So we did then a community fundraiser. And this is not something that we usually do, but we're like, okay guys, we have a situation. And everyone who can chip in every little tiny donation count. And were actually able to make a pretty decent amount that we collected from our community that wanted to support this. And for me, that was just beautiful. And then we have so many cool people contacting us who we're regularly in touch with. Usually there can be times when someone contacts us to see if they can get support.

42:49

Rasmus

And it can take some time if we have EMAP donations that we're working with other organizations where we have something planned and we're doing this and that, we're staying in touch. And we had a guy in Argentina outside of Buenos Aires, and just out of the purity in his heart, he was helping a lot of street dogs, taking them into his house, trying to get the medical aid and a vet to take care of them, providing them with food and all these sort of things. And the issue was so big, so he didn't have enough space in his house to keep on doing this. And the expenses grew and grew. So he couldn't afford it. And were able to fund a shelter that he could get a shelter built and funded, something that would usually take a village to get together and do. And with the power of our community, were able to make that happen.

43:54

Rasmus

And these are the sort of things that makes me really proud that we have built something like this and we're seeing how it's being taken in and how we're feeling, the support from the community, that basically when you boil it all down, it's an opportunity to do good. And if we provide that opportunity to see that people will actually back it and participate in doing good.

44:23

JP

You know, when it comes to something like that, it's tremendous that there's an opportunity to be able to do that and it really is game changing because there are so many charities out there with people that have the right intent and they really want to make a difference and they're just not able to. So this is really looking like it is something game changing. I also want to understand and get our audience in today to understand, is that how one, can people contribute to Pawthereum and two, how do you get the community in to vote to decide which of these organizations require the help on a priority basis? How does that look to you?

45:17

Rasmus

Yeah, good question. Just by holding Pawthereum or by trading Pawthereum or getting involved with some of our other project products. We have a DEX where you can donate to charity everything that we do. If you're involved, you're automatically supporting the cause. And by holding you're able to create votes if that's something that you want to do for the community to decide on. So everyone is by holding you're actively a part of the DAO and you have a voting power and you have the right to propose where we're going to donate. Of course, we still do have executive decisions where we put up proposals of where our donations are being placed, but there are so many ways of being involved, you don't even have to invest. I mean, just by supporting the cause and spreading the work, you're doing tremendous work because we will never do anything in our ecosystem that is not involved in charity.

46:24

Rasmus

And all the love that we can get from doing so is the saying that we stand strong together and without a community we wouldn't simply exist. This wouldn't have been possible without everyone out there believing in what we are trying to accomplish.

46:44

JP

Indeed. Rasmus and like you said before in web3, community is everything. And if you have the right kind of people backing you, the moon is not the limit, right? There is no limit. Just so long as you've got that people power beneath your wings.

47:00

Rasmus

Exactly, that's really the key. And a lot of people invest for different reasons. Pawthereum was never built for us to make a moonshot. We're just happy when we see volume because that means that we generate more funds to donate. And I think that's also been one of the things, especially in this sentiment of the market, that we're just staying true to the cause, staying true to the mission onboarding and educating as much as we can, engaging the community. We also had a phase where we haven't been able to send out large amount of donations. Those are just the times the market is always going to market. We're just focusing a lot on strengthening our own ecosystem, building partnerships in the real world, building partnerships within Web3 other impactful projects to see how can we benefit each other, how can we make this happen, and just sort of bring in everything together where the bottom line is utilizing blockchain as a force for good.

48:15

Rasmus

And it's incredible to see how many projects out there share the same mission. In the term of trying to do good, I mean, we have the technology to make it happen, but to really make it happen, it's up to us. It's up to everyone building, it's up to everyone who are supporting the utility of charity to actually make it happen. We do have the opportunity to change the world, but we will never be able to do it alone.

48:46

JP

Indeed, indeed. So I actually now got two questions that come straight into my mind. The first one you mentioned about is partnership. So if somebody wanted to partner with Pawthereum, what would that partnership look like? What would an ideal partner be to be able to spread the word?

49:05

Rasmus

That's a good question. Our partnerships, they come in a lot of different sizes and shapes. We've had a lot of projects previously that we have teamed up with where they wanted to do good, where they have collected funds they wanted to donate and we have teamed up for a donation. Spreading the word to their own communities, they're seeking to do something good. And I think from Pawthereum's point of view, there's always room for improvement and we're still learning and we're still growing. But we have established ourselves as somewhat the project to go to, especially it comes to animal welfare and connecting other projects to NGOs that we feel could be a match for them to support. So sort of connecting those dots and make everything more fluently and smooth when they want to do a donation. And then just this is something that I'm proud of.

50:11

Rasmus

Earlier this year, I went to Thailand with a big animal welfare organization to talk a little bit about crypto, fundraising and all these sort of things. And I had the chance to visit some of their elephant sanctuaries and had this idea that how can we support this in web3? And I mean, Pawthereum is not an NFT project, it's part of something that we do, but we're not 100% focused on NFT. So I got connected with another project that specializes in NFTs and they're big advocates for animal welfare and it's like, guys, I'm in Thailand, I've just been out cutting down banana trees to feed these elephants and can we create a Web3 donor experience with NFT? Can we build an adoption program for these elephants to support them with NFT? And they were like, yeah, let's go, let's try and make that happen.

51:17

Rasmus

So we got an amazing artist on board who took the inspiration from the real elephant, created an NFT collection around it, and we're donating the profits to the organization. So just to make that happen, to see, okay, there are so many opportunities that we can create and whatever project out there wants to team up, there is never any bad ideas. The overall goal, if the mission is seeking positive impact, reach out, let's make something happen. Always.

52:00

JP

That's brilliant. I think that's a great idea, especially when it comes to expanding to the Web3 community in a manner that they can understand and how they can actually make an impact in the real world. So that's a very creative idea to be able to extend donations that you would want. Okay. I know that there's a lot of when it comes to charities or even when it comes to crypto, right? There's a lot of, like you said, stigma behind it. Are there some ways you think that could remove that stigma where we could have more adoption, more mass adoption rather, when it comes to at least the donor economy, accepting crypto, what are your thoughts?

52:54

Rasmus

Really good question. I think there are so many things happening right now that's all pointing in the right direction and this is probably for us to zoom out a little bit and look at the broader perspective of blockchain and crypto. Web3, one of the main challenges has been the lack of regulations. And I know this is a topic that's probably going to split the waters a little bit, but I do think that what we are seeing right now with regulations coming, which is leading to bigger institutions going into crypto right now. We've been waiting in Europe for a long time for regulations, which has kept the banks away. Now we're rolling out Mika and we are seeing all these new initiatives from traditional finance. And I have a feeling like no one can predict anything. If were a fortune tellers, it would be amazing, but unfortunately, we are not.

54:04

Rasmus

But I think we are going to see a hybrid world where crypto will become more mainstream, we will see mass adaption, but it's going to be in a framework where we are meeting on sort of the middle and we're building together with traditional finance. I think that is really going to be the key. We're seeing like KYC being required everywhere and for the real world, if we want to call it that is what they are lacking from our world is the transparency of who's behind everything that we do, whereas our lack for the real world and charities has been the lack of transparency towards the donations. So I do see mass adoption coming, but I think we're going to see a hybrid world where we are sort of building a financial instrument together with traditional finance, which will probably in the future be very based on blockchain, but the end user will probably not realize they're even on the blockchain.

55:16

JP

Totally. I think that is something that we should all look forward to because this is clearly one of the stronger solutions when it comes to the donor economy. Now, that being said, I'm going to ask the audience, if you have any questions, please send them in to AdLunam Inc. Or you can send them to the speaker directly as we're coming towards the end of the show. But we still have a few questions left. So in the meantime, ladies and gentlemen, those of you that want to have some questions asked, please send that across to AdLunam Inc. or to the speaker directly so we can have that answered on the show. If not, we will have the answered later. My next question, Rasmus, is you've told us about the Arc. Obviously when it comes to the donation economy, it is in need of a revamp, right?

56:05

JP

Web3 is becoming and Web3 and crypto is becoming a huge solution to it. Where do you see this, say five years from now or ten years from now? Do you see this as becoming mainstream? Like in your heart, you know that you want it to be.

56:23

Rasmus

I know that I want it to be. Are we going to be able to do it in five to ten years? I'm not sure. I think that every day punch in the right direction. But for the donor economy, I believe that as what we have seen, especially with philanthropy and the crypto space, this is something that's going to keep on growing and I think we're going to process tens of billions of dollars over the next decade, not just ethereum, but the entire space. I think that by utilizing technology and removing the aspect of the individual donor, that by implementing automated charities into everything that we do. So basically understanding if there is profit, there will be charity by default. I think it's going to become one of the most important utilities and I do hope that it's going to become a standard when you're building anything crypto related that it is incorporated as micro transactions.

57:29

Rasmus

But just look at the NFT space, for example. A portion of it go to charity by default from each sale. You donate a portion of that to charity by default. But it's also up to the users and the supporters to demand this sort of utility that hey, we want to see this project succeed, but we also want to see this project do good in the world. So in a sense, it's capitalism meeting socialism where we say okay. We're all about building a financial system where people can profit, but at the end of the day, the more profit that you generate, the bigger social impact you're creating. So it's sort of creating this win situation and then making it easy for people to we're not asking anyone to take a stand on if they want to donate to a specific cause that they have to go out and donate $10 alone.

58:25

Rasmus

We're automating this. So just by being part of something, you're actively engaging and supporting the cause that it's promoting. And I think that this will be massive and I think this will be the future.

58:41

JP

Well, it's an exciting future ahead, no doubt, and certainly something that we should look forward to. I think what you're proposing is certainly an easy way for more of us to take part in the donation economy and make it more mainstream. Okay, before I wrap up my questions to you and take questions in from the audience. Rasmus, you've told us a lot about, not just yourself, what the intends to do, what aims it has, but at one particular level, you have to understand that the heroes and I say this for everybody that's involved on the ground in this economy, because that's what they truly are. Right? It takes a special blend of the human spirit to be able to do that. I want to know what is that special blend when it comes to team? Well, Rasmus especially, and then of course his team at Pawthereum.

59:46

JP

What's their personal philosophy and what keeps you?

59:53

Rasmus

Good question, my friend. I honestly feel for us and for our entire team is that we can see impact that we have already made by building something that didn't exist before and how we've been able to generate funds that has actually had a positive impact on the world and then the entire prospects of blockchain and how it's being perceived in the real world. I don't think there would be any chance on Earth that we would ever back down from ethereum and the cost that we're on. And we're just hoping that we're also able to inspire both projects out there, people who are building new stuff and the supporters to actually demand this sort of utility. Because I honestly feel like we have a fair shot at changing the world and it's not something that's going to happen tomorrow. But we have proven that it's possible with technology to implement charity, we've proven that it's possible to have the transparent and we're proving that we can generate funds coming from the previous Stigma crypto world and actually showcasing that it's having a difference in the real world.

Rasmus

So, yeah, I think that's our core mission. This is too big of an opportunity, it's too big of a movement that we're creating that we could ever back down. We're still a small project compared to a lot of projects that are out there. So we have definitely room and potential for growth and nothing will be built in one day. But I definitely think that we're on the right path to make a difference. And I just get a real joy when I see new supporters believing in what we do and want to contribute as well as seeing other projects trying to accomplish the same. It really gives me faith in this space and I think it's one of the most beautiful ways that we can build the bridge between crypto and the real world to actually generate funds from our arena and then build and help animals and whatever cost that other chooses to support in the real world.

JP

Thank you for sharing that. Rasmus all right, there is one thing that actually struck me when you were saying this, and of course it is the economics of how it's going to play out. How do you guys manage when there's a bear market? Obviously there's challenges in that space. What do those look like for you?

Rasmus

It's been difficult, but it's one of the things that you have to take into your equation when you run a project in crypto or any other markets, basically there will always be external factors that can be challenging. And of course, a bear market is super challenging because we are seeing a lot of funds being moved away from crypto. We're seeing a lot of people who would otherwise have been intrigued to support not being attracted to crypto and we're not generating a lot of volume, so we're not basically able to commit to sending out huge donations all the time. But it gives a different aspect as well. I think a lot of projects who succumb to a bear market, it's kind of shaking the bag a little to see who's true to their mission and who will keep building. I mean, in Python, we never did fund raising or anything like you would see in a regular company to generate runway.

Rasmus

We've been a bunch of basically volunteers keeping true to the mission and it's just giving an amazing opportunity where we haven't had a need to stress anything that we have done in this time. May that be looking into developing new products that we can push for charity and building the partnerships with other projects who are still around, who wants to do good. New projects entering, who wants to do good. And then a lot of time focusing on the pains and needs of the nonprofits. Getting to understand their way of thinking and slow and steady onboard them into crypto. Because looking at history, markets will always turn and I just think it's a way of creating a sort of positive adoption is when we're seeing more nonprofits getting on boarded into crypto and establishing that connection between us and them. But yeah, of course bear markets are challenging, especially when you're a small project like Pawthereum.

Rasmus

Creating engagement with the community can be a challenge. Fortunately, we have a lot of great people in our community carrying the torch and promoting us and supporting us and getting involved still because they believe in the mission. So, yeah, we're just not going anywhere. But, yeah, of course there will always be challenges and we are just going to tackle them face on. And I also think that's one of the things with blockchain technology is that everything is moving so fast, so every day there are new opportunities arising that we have to take into consideration to validate. Is this something that we can utilize in our project? So just keeping us on our toes and just preparing for when the market turns again, we will be able to allocate more funds so we can keep our donations coming out. But, yeah, of course it's challenging, but that's how it will always be.

Rasmus

When you try to do something that hasn't been done before, there will be obstacles you never saw coming and then you have to deal with them head on as soon as they arrive and you need to figure out ways to approach these challenges.

JP

Indeed. Indeed. Rasmus, thank you for that answer. Thank you for sharing that. Of course it is a challenge, but keeping the faith and just being able to move through these hard times lead you to better ones ahead. Indeed. Okay, I've got two questions that come in and I know they're at the end of the show, so I'm going to ask you to be a bit brief, but nonetheless, two important questions that have come in. One, if's come in from NF that says how do NGOs or animal shelters apply to for funding if they have to?

Rasmus

Yeah, good question, and thank you for that. That comes in many different ways. We have a contact section on our website on pawthereum.com where charities can contact us, but we also see a lot of people then they're joining either Telegram and contacting us there or Discord, but that's basically we don't have a specific formula in place. We would advise anyone to shoot us an email to charity@pawthereum.com

JP

Okay, super. Okay, so that's one, the second one I have from someone in Argentina and what she says is, this is from Am. And what she asks is, I see a lot of people donating in Argentina itself, but I don't know if you'll have a Telegram group or a contact method in Spanish, so how do we solve that?

Rasmus

We currently do not have a community in Spanish. We have our official Telegram and our official Discord and they're both on our website. Feel free to join.

JP

Okay, super. Okay, that answers the questions. That's the last one. Rasmus I know that we can continue this conversation and certainly at the next pace that keep us posted. I'm certain the large number of our community would also love to interact with you. So thank you so much for being on the show. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for tuning in today. We will be back next week at the same time at the same place with a new guest. But once again, Rasmus. And to you at Team Pawthereum awesome. You guys are awesome. Keep going, man, just keep going.

Rasmus

Thanks, man, and thanks for having me.

JP

Absolutely, absolutely. All right, that's it ladies and gentlemen, this is the end of this show today. Thank you so much once again for tuning in. This is JP from AdLunam Inc. bringing you everything about web3. Cheers.