In this episode of The Last 10%, we host a fascinating conversation with successful business personality Wayne Mullins, founder of Ugly Mug Marketing. We dive into topics like developing high-performing teams and cultures and how crucial these factors are for a business's success. They discuss the concepts of cultivating consistency, creating positive work cultures, and the power of an identity-shift. This episode is full of thought-provoking questions along with real-life anecdotes to make this a highly engaging and educational listening experience for every leader, coach, and entrepreneur. Join us on the show!

Wayne's Information

Company Website

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Mentioned in this episode:

1on1 App Information

https://www.thinkmovethrive.com/1on1-app/

Hey everybody.

We're talking to Wayne Mullins today.

What an amazing guy.

He's the founder of Ugly Mug Marketing, entrepreneur and creator

of the Freelance Accelerator.

He's got some incredible stories about developing high

performing teams and culture.

He's a great new friend of mine.

You don't want to miss.

This incredible conversation.

Welcome to the last 10 percent your host, Dallas Burnett dives into

incredible conversations that will inspire you to finish well and finish strong.

Listen, as guests share their journeys and valuable advice on living in the last 10%,

if you are a leader, a coach, a business owner, or someone looking to level up.

You are in the right place.

Remember, you can give 90 percent effort and make it a long way.

But it's finding out how to unlock the last 10 percent that makes

all the difference in your life, your relationships, and your work.

Now, here's Dallas.

Welcome, welcome, welcome.

I am Dallas Burnett, sitting in my 1905 Koch Brothers

barber chair in Thrive Studios.

But more importantly, we have a great guest today.

Mr.

Wayne Mullins has influenced over 250, 000 entrepreneurs a year.

So I can't wait to get into that.

So welcome to the show, Wayne.

Thank

you so much, Dallas.

I'm excited for our chat today and looking forward to an inspiring conversation.

Oh, that's awesome.

So.

You, and you influence a lot of entrepreneurs.

Tell us, how do you come in contact and influence so many

entrepreneurs every single year?

Sure.

Absolutely.

There's several different ways that occurs.

One is through social platforms.

Obviously, social media is a thing now that enables us to connect and

communicate and inspire other people.

And what's so interesting about that, I was just overhearing some

conversation yesterday evening.

And someone was commenting on a post that I had made and they were talking to

somebody else saying, you know, I really love all the posts that Wayne does.

And what's interesting to me is I've never once seen that person

like comment, share or any other way visibly that I would know.

So.

I think an important thing to remember for everyone out there is that your

words, your stories, the things you're communicating on these social

platforms is making a difference.

It is impacting others, even if you never see the visible evidence of it.

So that's one way also have some online courses.

We have over 20, 000 students enrolled in, uh, one of our online courses and

speaking Through a book, I've got a book out there that sells quite well.

So all of those different

ways.

That's awesome.

That will do it.

That would do it.

Wonderful.

That's awesome.

I can't wait to get into talking about some of this today.

Now you have, you are the founder of a marketing agency

called Ugly Mug Marketing.

And I got to ask, first of all, tell us how you got into that.

And second of all, you got to tell us where the name Ugly Mug

Marketing came from, because that sounds like a fun story.

Yeah, absolutely.

I got into marketing as a result of going into sales.

So we were chatting before we started recording here.

Zig Ziglar had a huge impact.

I On me when I was in college, uh, for some reason, my parents gave

me a set of CDs from Zig Ziglar.

I still to this day, don't know why they gave me those CDs, but it was

Zig Ziglar talking about the sales profession in through those CDs.

What Zig did was he sold me on the profession of selling.

In other words, at that point, from that point forward, I

knew I wanted to go into sales.

And that's exactly what I did.

And that sales journey led me down a path, which turned into

some marketing consulting.

And at some point that turned into the opportunity to actually open an agency.

And that's been about 15 years ago now.

Wow.

That's awesome.

I feel like we have, we're like minded in that.

I still remember getting out of school and really not having a development

mindset at that point in time, just because you come out of school and

you're just like, man, I'm tired of just.

You know, learning all this stuff, but it was mainly, I was learning

things I wasn't interested in.

And then.

Somebody, I don't even know how I got turned on to Zig Ziglar, but I

just remember I was driving in car.

I mean, I would be on some trip and it would be hours of just me and Zig.

And, and just, I just ate it up and I just chewed up everything he had.

And so it was so good, such an inspiring guy and had such a way of.

Of his perspective was just fantastic in the way he framed

his ideas were just incredible.

It was so polished and it was very inspiring.

So yeah, man, I'm feeling you on the Zig Ziglar, man.

He was the man.

So tell us a little bit about how, where did Ugly Mug come from?

Like how, what was the genesis of Ugly Mug?

Sure.

So I

started the career in sales, quickly learned that I

sucked at this thing called selling, but thanks to my stubbornness.

Thanks to Zig continually, you know, quote unquote preaching in my year about

selling and developing my sales skills.

I finally got good at this thing of selling.

And you know, Dallas, one of these dangerous things occurred

as I got better at selling.

The amount of revenue that I was making for the company started going up at

a higher rate than mine was going up.

Both were going up, but the company's revenue was going up.

Yeah.

It was spiking a bit more.

And so I had this dangerous thought, what if I actually went

and did something for myself?

What if I went and sold something for myself?

At that point in time, the only other skill that I had was cutting grass.

So I'm here in Louisiana.

The grass cutting season here is nine months out of the year and all

through high school and college.

That's what I did.

Summertime, I was cutting grass for money, making money.

And so then much to the dismay of my parents, to some friends, I left

this wonderful sales job, corporate job, eight to five, money through

Friday, all the benefits, and, you know, really decent pay and decided

to start a lawn and landscape company.

It was a year period, the next three years, I grew that from nothing.

I'd, you know, since stopped doing it when I started doing sales.

I grew that into the largest lawn and landscape company in our region.

And during the course of that growth, I started having a lot of other

entrepreneurs, business owners.

A lot of them were actually clients of the lawn and landscape company come to

me saying, what are you doing to grow?

You know, they'd seen the journey Dallas.

They'd seen me go from myself in a truck to myself and a crew myself

in another crew and another truck.

Right.

So they'd seen this progression over this relatively short period of time.

And so the question started coming, what are you doing to grow at that pace?

And the answer was marketing.

We were doing some very unique, very specific things from marketing,

from our marketing perspective, and those conversations led into

consulting, right, people paying for input, paying for advice.

And at some point there was just enough of that, that I had this other crazy idea.

What if I did this for a job, right?

What if I started a company and did this?

How about that?

That's awesome.

I love that story.

I love how you just flipped it and you just went.

Where you saw opportunity and you started in sales and then saw this

opportunity in something you'd already known when you were working in college

and you followed that opportunity.

And then that opened up the door to a completely new opportunity.

I love that.

And I think that's such a journey of entrepreneurship is that the place

that you start is so oftentimes not the place that you finish or land the plane.

It's just, it is a circuitous path.

And that's awesome.

That ugly mug.

And let's talk a little bit about this because in the Zig Ziglar

frame of mind, we were talking about how Zig Ziglar approaches things.

There's a big part of that in terms of his perspective, in terms of

routines and you have doing the routines well and staying consistent.

You have some really good, solid routines.

And we've talked about a little bit of the short for the show, but I'd love

for you to talk a little bit about.

You know, what is some routines that you felt like you've developed over

the years that's really helped you in your life and in your business?

Sure.

If you are right, Zig Ziglar was very much one who advocated understanding

the foundational elements.

So when he talked about cells, it was about the foundation of

human psychology and a persuasion.

And so really for me, what I've always loved is trying to figure out

what are the foundational pieces.

What are the basic pieces that the really great people do that other

people have already forgotten.

So when I look around at the entrepreneurs, when I work, look around

at athletes, one of the things that's so fascinating to me is what separates

average or even good from great is that the great know the foundational things.

So much better than those below them and it goes back to, you know, I'm

reminded of the John Wooden story, the UCLA basketball coach, the most

winning coach in collegiate history in their first day of practice.

Right.

So first of all, he has the absolute best college basketball players in

the country because they'd already been winning national championships.

So he had his pick literally of all the high school graduates

who he wanted to choose from.

So these are the top high school graduates coming to play on his team.

And the very first day of practice, he teaches them how to put on

their socks correctly, right?

It's a foundational thing.

Like you wouldn't think you'd be teaching high school all star basketball

players how to put on their socks.

But his whole premise was you put your socks on wrong, incorrectly.

You're going to get a blister, you get a blister, you're going to miss practice.

You miss practice.

You're going to miss games.

You miss games.

You're going to cause us to lose.

He would then move into how do you tie your shoe so that it doesn't come untied.

And again, those things for me, I had to learn over the years.

What are those foundational elements?

Put me in the best position to win day in and day out.

And, you know, my story, Dallas.

My journey hasn't been this linear path upwards, right?

Like so many others, my path has been full of a lot of ups and downs.

And some of those downs were pretty dark and pretty deep places.

You know, at one point we, my company was investigated by the FBI, the actual FBI.

And the company at the time, we weren't even doing well, right?

So it's not like we were super successful and we got investigated.

We weren't doing well.

And so this whole process really put me into a state of deep

depression, extreme depression.

I'd never experienced anything like that in my life, you know, struggled

just to get out of bed in the mornings.

It was to the point Dallas that I didn't want to live.

I reached that point where.

I didn't want to live and I had no hope.

I had no, you know, the future was not bright whatsoever.

And through the course of just some small interactions, what I discovered

was that some of the foundational pieces that I need to succeed.

We're not in place.

So when the storm comes, right, when this whole thing took place,

there was not a solid foundation.

So I was very susceptible to go down this path of depression.

And so that's for me, what really started this idea, this whole journey

towards figuring out what are the foundational pieces that I need in my

life to ensure that I'm on good footing.

I love how

you

talk about it as it relates to performance

and starting with the basics.

And I feel like that's exactly right.

I just, when we had another guest on that was a performance psychologist

for a major league baseball team, and he said something similar in the sense

that he was always amazed at how the great players did the mundane things

with excellence and so consistent.

And it was this, these things that are typically, like you said, other

people have already forgotten, they've moved on to the next thing.

And, you know, whether it's a great athlete or a great business person

is just getting down and doing the simple things so consistently and

so well that the foundation that you have is so strong that you end

up getting and creating the results because you've got a great foundation.

And I love that.

I love how you frame that up.

And I think that's very true.

I think that so many times people get impatient or they're, they

get distracted by something.

You know, bright and shiny and on the next thing, and they forget sometimes

the fundamentals or we get sloppy.

We just have this performance drift on the fundamentals.

And, and I think that's, that's so true.

I think we're routines, especially in our routines, create and make who we are.

And so focusing on the basics of routines is definitely going to help us create.

Whether it's the business or the team.

Or the performance, whatever we're in that we want.

So I love that.

I love that.

What's some of your go to routines?

You say some foundational routines.

What are some of the routines that you say are go to?

Absolutely.

So for me, you know, they all, a lot of these started when I was trying

to work through that depression and come out of that period in my life.

So for me, number one, it was getting up at a consistent time.

So I wake up at 5 0 5 AM.

Seven days a week, 365 days a year.

It doesn't matter if I'm sick with fever.

It doesn't matter if I'm on vacation.

It doesn't matter if it's Christmas.

It doesn't matter.

The day does not matter.

I'm waking up at 5 0 5 AM.

And the reason that I had to be so rigid with that is what I've learned for myself.

And this may not be true for others, but what I've learned for myself

is that exceptions become the norm.

So when I would give myself a pass, when I would make an exception, you

know, I didn't sleep well last night, so I'm going to hit snooze a few times.

Then the next day it was, you know, what, you know, whatever,

it's the weekend or it's a holiday or we're on vacation, right?

There's always an exception.

And so for me, I just said, you know what?

No exceptions, 5 0 5.

seven days a week, 365 days a year.

So I've been doing that now for probably four or five years straight.

I don't remember the exact timeframe, but for me, that morning time is where I

needed the time to start my day correctly.

I'm married.

We have four kids.

And during this period, as anyone who's parent understand once the kids are awake.

And you're at home, you really don't have much time to focus on yourself.

There's not much quiet time in a house with kids present.

Yeah.

So that's exactly right.

Yeah.

So my routine would start at five Oh five.

I would begin the day with some meditation.

So I use an app called calm.

It's just a guided meditation.

And all I really do is a breathing exercise.

It just really helps me to remind myself that.

The thoughts can come, but I don't have to latch onto those thoughts, right?

I don't have to believe or pursue every single thought that comes my

way, that I can just see the thoughts, watch them pass and let them move on.

The next thing I do is I spend 15 to 20 minutes reading, and that is

always something very intentional.

Now, that varies based on where I'm at, what I'm feeling

in that period of my life.

So I will make sure that I'm reading something that's going

to serve me in that period.

I also journal.

So I don't spend a ton of time journaling, but I like to put

down some thoughts on paper.

It could be just how I'm feeling that morning.

It could be something, you know, an instance or an event that's

taking place in my life at the time.

Yeah.

And then the other thing is exercise.

I started six years ago running.

I was never a runner.

I'd never ran at all for anything.

And I started running and you know, the first year I ran

a couple of hundred miles.

The next year I progressed that in those foundational pieces

that took place in the morning.

So between five o'clock in the morning and between seven o'clock in the morning.

Those foundational pieces, I would argue, has what enabled my company to

thrive over the last few years, I would argue that it has enabled me to invest

in my marriage, to invest in my kids and in those relationships as well.

I love that.

I think that's interesting too.

And I love your, it's a mindfulness meditation that you at least are

describing at least what I've understood.

And we have similar morning routines.

I get up.

At the same time every day, I think one of the things it's so

interesting the way you describe that the exception becomes the norm.

Oh my gosh.

I love how you put that.

And I think it is because when we give ourselves, it just keeps it simple.

You eliminate decisions when you say there is no exception.

It's this every single day.

Then I'm not saying it's today.

The day I get to sleep in is today.

The day I get to skip working out is today.

The day that I can just roll it.

You just don't, you don't have to make that decision.

You just like, no, today is the day today.

Every day I get up at five and that's what we're going to do.

We're rolling with it.

And so I think.

Not having to decide and make as many decisions helps you be more consistent.

Because if you're not having to make a decision, then you don't have to

worry about making the wrong one.

Yeah.

It's really good.

What I've observed is that it becomes your identity.

So for me in writing, for example, I was never a runner and it took me probably

a couple of years before I started identifying As a runner and once your

identity shifts So once your identity becomes someone who wakes up at five every

morning, it's abnormal It's not who you are to sleep in once you become a runner.

What do you want to do?

You want to run?

And so I think one of the hacks, if there was going to be a hack around this, it

would be the sooner that you can learn to shape your identity, to believe that

you are that type of person, the easier and the quicker you will establish

the habits that you want in your life.

Oh, listen, I, I, let me tell you, I've got a

story on that one because we had.

We were developing this coaching system for a client, which is now the one on

one coaching system that we have as an app that we have, we install in a lot

of different clients, but when we were at the genesis of that, we had no idea

if it was going to be successful or not.

And we had one of the operations managers was like, share the kind

of, take the, take me through.

This one on one coaching session in front of a couple of project managers.

I was like, okay.

And he was like saying, Hey, look, guys, look, this is what's coming.

He's getting pat on the back that he's giving them the inside.

You know, this is what's coming down the line.

And so we just went through a coaching session right there in front of them.

And we get done and we look, I turned around, look at the guy.

I'll never guess, Hey, what do you think?

I got nothing.

Total deadpan.

I mean, zero response.

Yeah.

Okay.

And then they get up and it's like, it's over.

I'm like, okay, this is not good.

This is going to be bad.

So they leave, this was like a Thursday, a Friday, Saturday, Sunday, nothing.

I come back on Monday morning, the office manager's not going to work.

Doo, doo, doo.

He's like, dude, you're not gonna believe what just happened.

I'm like, what?

He's like, one of those project managers like came in this morning, met with

me first thing, so I just want to let you know, I quit smoking this weekend.

He's like.

He goes, yeah, he's like, you know, you asked for a commitment and after

you ask those questions in the coaching session, I just start thinking about

him all the way home and I started thinking I need to make a commitment.

And then I started thinking about my kid that's on the way and I started

seeing how much money I spend on smoking and booze and all that stuff.

He's like, I'm done.

I just quit.

I'm not a smoker anymore.

He went cold turkey.

No Nick patch, no nothing because he said, I'm not a smoker anymore.

And he came back Monday.

That was like, he had been smoked for like 15 years.

And that was like three or four years ago.

And the guy hadn't touched his sense.

I mean, it was done now.

I'm not Tony Robbins and this is the coaching system isn't either, but

that guy's just to, to your point, that's the power of an identity shift.

He shifted from, I use cigarettes to calm my nerves to, I want to take my

newborn daughter on nice vacations.

And I'm the dad that gets to do that.

And like when he made that switch over the course of a weekend, it

was so transformative in his life.

It just changed his whole life.

And so I think that's really amazing.

And I do think that I like how you said identity, because I think that

it does how we perceive ourself and what we believe about ourself.

It's going to jingle all the way in shaping our reality.

So do you have any other thoughts on that?

Like, how have you seen people or ideas that you have around how

people would shape their identity?

Cause I think that's a cool concept.

Yeah, I think, you know, whether we acknowledge

it or not, it is true.

You always behave in a manner that is consistent with the way you see yourself.

Now, for some people, you may look around at the evidence in your life and you

may No, that's not true because I don't want to be doing A, B, C, or D, right?

I have these bad habits that I don't want.

But the reality is your identity is that person, still.

You may be at war with those things.

Your identity is that you're the person who is at war

with these bad habits, right?

Until your identity shifts to the person who doesn't struggle to quit smoking.

Until your identity shifts to the person who doesn't struggle to wake

up when the alarm clock goes off.

Until your identity shifts to the person who loves to run or loves to work out,

you are stuck fighting that battle because your identity is in that battle.

And this is true in all aspects of our lives, you know, for example, in the

business world, in the business context, I spent probably the first seven years of

ugly mug marketing, not believing that I knew how to lead people and manage people

well, and you see that came from the previous business, the lawn and landscape

company, I had run into some managerial, some leadership challenges in that

business that really deflated my belief in myself as a leader and as a manager.

So I carried that identity over with me into this business.

And so it's funny, you talk to some people who have known me over these

years that I've had ugly mug marketing.

And I had some advisors and some mentors that I used to go to all

that I would ever talk about.

I would complain about the team.

I would complain about that.

I couldn't leave that.

I was tired of dealing with people that I hated managing all of these things.

But it wasn't until my identity shifted that I chose to believe I don't have

to be a bad manager, a bad leader, that I can choose the identity to be

a great leader and a great manager.

It was at that point.

That everything began shifting, everything began changing.

And to this day, I lean into that, right?

Is it who I naturally am?

No, I'm a high level introvert.

I would much rather go hide in the corner, hide in the room than lead or manage.

But I'm leaning into that identity in attempting to use that to

build the team and the culture and the business that I want.

I think that's a great point.

And I think that's said, and I think that you're exactly right.

And I think so many times.

People mistakenly believe that they are just in the battle and that's a good

thing that eventually, you know, it's like, okay, I just got to keep fighting.

And one day, I love your perspective is that believe you've won,

believe you're out, you're done.

And that way you're not having to get up every day and be like, am I

going to have to battle to get up?

Am I going to battle to quit smoking?

I'm like, it doesn't have to be a battle.

And I think that's really putting a fork into your identity and really resting in

awareness that you have about yourself, your strengths and your abilities and

your uniqueness and, and then just running with it and say, let's go.

So I think that's very encouraging.

I would say if you're leading a team, if you're coaching individuals, if you're

growing a company, I think that you really need to spend some time You know,

asking yourself what you really believe.

And I think that it's easy for sometimes for people to say, well, of course I

believe I'm this or I'm that and it's good, but they're not acting in a way.

So if you really want to know what you believe, watch how you behave.

And if you struggle getting them out of bed or you struggle quitting

smoking, then you really need to say, maybe I don't really believe,

maybe there's some things that I need to, to unpack a little bit more.

So I think that's really good.

That's really good.

I want to move on.

I want to talk a little bit about, I want to talk about, you're a marketing expert.

You've been doing this for a long time.

And honestly, it's funny because you were talking about the FBI.

I'm sitting there thinking this is ironic because you're like, everything

started turning around, the business started going better, and the lives of.

Literally own your company.

One of your, one of your like recommendations like that to own

your thing is from Chris Voss.

And if anybody's listened to this and loves the book, splitting the difference,

which is like this massive bestseller from an FBI to the top negotiator.

It's like, literally he's saying how awesome you guys are.

And I'm sitting there thinking that's a long way from getting.

Going through this investigation thing from the FBI to now having

Chris Voss recommend you, I was like, wow, that's amazing.

So well done with that on that, but I'd love to talk since

you're an expert in marketing.

I want to first talk and give some listeners some ideas if they are

leading a team or business and they're thinking about marketing.

Maybe they are not getting what they want out of their marketing.

Maybe they're not even doing marketing at all.

Or maybe they're not happy with the marketing that they are doing.

So tell us what is something, I would say, rookie mistakes or mistakes that you see

owners or leaders making when they engage in marketing their services or their

products.

Yeah, there's too many mistakes that I see people make, Dallas.

And it's not because they're ignorant or it's not because they don't want to

do the right thing with their marketing.

It is because there's so much noise out there.

Like, who do you believe?

Who do you listen to, right?

And there's a new guru born every day who's telling you to

do this thing or that thing.

But the two things that come to mind when I think about the biggest

mistakes that I see consistently made, number one is that most people

confuse marketing with advertising.

And they use those two terms interchangeably.

And marketing and advertising are not the exact same thing.

So advertising is merely a piece or a component of your marketing.

And you can't use those terms interchangeably

because they're not the same.

So then the question is, what is marketing the way we like to define it?

And again, there's not a right or wrong, but the way we like to define

it is marketing is your ability to attract and to keep a customer.

So the attraction side.

A lot about the advertising, right?

Is how are we going to get our message out there to the right people in the right

way and own the right platform or the right media so that it resonates, so that

it connects, so that it speaks to them.

Now, the interesting thing, Dallas is the keeping side.

This is a side that I would say that 99 percent of even marketers.

Overlook, we've been trained as marketers, as even as salespeople,

we've been trained that our job is to bring people to the point of sell,

to the point where they pull out their wallet and they hand us money.

And then what do we do if we're in sales?

We're out looking for the next people to bring through the sales process again.

And marketers do the same thing, right?

We have been trained to find the strangers out there, convert those

strangers into friends, and then turn those friends into customers.

And then we run out and we go try to find more strangers.

And we repeat where I truly believe, and there's evidence of this all around

right now, but what I truly believe is going to be the ultimate hack.

If you will, I hate the word hack, but ultimate marketing hack for the future.

It's this learning to use your marketing skills, your sales skills

to turn your ordinary customers.

Into evangelist for your brand.

That is where the opportunity lies because while everyone else is running

out, they're trying to go convince the next strangers to become friends, to then

pull out their wallet and hand us money.

If you take and you convert your existing clientele into evangelists

for you, you now have an.

Army who is doing that work for you.

And if you look around, you will see evidence that the best brands,

the brands that people love to talk about are brilliant at turning

their customers into evangelists.

I love that.

That is awesome.

That is great advice.

And I love the nuance that you put on the marketing and advertising

and the differences between the two.

I think there's a lot, I think there's a lot there.

Also, I would love for you to talk a little bit about, because I think

that as leaders or coaches or business owners, I don't want people to get caught

up in that this is just a marketing conversation because in the standpoint

of external marketing, because we can talk about social media, we can talk

about advertising, we can talk about clients, but we also have a component of

internal marketing as well to our teams, to our companies, to our organizations.

And so I would love to, for you to just think through and talk with us a little

bit about how you feel like the principles of marketing, how leaders and coaches

can utilize some principles that may be used in marketing to be better leaders.

And, or coaches specifically too, I'd love to hit on storytelling

cause I think that marketers

are great storytellers.

Yeah.

I think you're spot on that so often we think marketing is a department

or we think sales is a department.

And in reality, so much of our lives are about selling.

They're about persuasion.

They're about marketing.

And you know, when you think about your role, whatever that role may be, assuming

it's not in marketing, it's not in sales.

You have to convince, you have to persuade other people.

If you're the entrepreneur to buy into the vision, to buy into

the mission of your organization.

And you can present it.

You could read it off a piece of paper.

You could email it out to everyone.

And chances are, it's not going to go over well because you haven't

thought through a strategy.

You haven't thought through a plan to position.

The vision, the mission in such a way that actually does what it

actually persuades people that they should be on board with this thing.

I see this all the time, Dallas.

I see where an example of that, you know, somebody comes out with a strategic plan.

So we're at the time of recording, this is the end of the year.

And so a lot of talk about strategic planning and a lot of people are rolling

out strategic plans for the next year for their companies in the problem.

And the complaint I often hear is that.

No one buys into the plan, right?

It becomes a sheet of paper or document that sits on a desk somewhere and

collects dust because no one buys into it.

And one of my first question is, how did you market this plan to your team?

And their response is usually, what do you mean?

And I go through the whole explanation that we're talking about now.

It's like, your job is to persuade them.

Your job is to convince them as to why this vision or this

plan is worth buying into.

And as Zig Ziglar used to say, one of the very first things we have

to learn to do is communicate.

What's in it for me, he used to talk about W yeah, that the radio station, right?

I remember that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Again, very basic things, but here's what happens.

We spend the time, energy, and effort putting this plan together, strategic

plan together, vision together, whatever you want, whatever it is

for your department, for your role, you put this thing together, you then

pitch it to the person or to the team or to the board or whoever it is in.

The response is very blah, right?

It's very, okay, whatever.

It's another plan.

We'll do it when we won't do it.

And the complaint then becomes those people just aren't motivated.

Those people just don't want to buy in those people.

And here's the thing I love to say.

Anytime we begin the sentence with those people are there.

It's probably time that we stop and reflect and look in the mirror

first because we didn't do a good enough job of positioning and

persuading and understanding why should they even care to begin with.

And that's so much about marketing, right?

Marketing is about helping people understand why they should care, what's

in it for them, what's the benefit for them in all of us as leaders.

We could learn to lean into that a bit more, learn to lean into our role

to persuade, to convince, to help them understand why they should care.

I love

that.

And I love how you take the personal responsibility.

If you ever, if you're saying those people don't do this or that, or think this way

that we're already at a deficit, we're already messing up because as a leader.

It is the first person you should look on is in the mirror.

If you're not getting the results from your people, because we can always

do a better job at communicating.

And I think asking ourself the question, have I communicated in a way

that really helps them see what's in it for them, what's in it for them.

And.

What's in it for me and everybody.

It's, and, and that doesn't, and I think some people get lost on that, is it's a,

it's a salesy tactic or like this used car salesman approach to sell vision.

That's not it at all because if you're approaching your company, your

organization, or your team, as if everyone is there and we can all have a win, then

I'm not having to be salesy in terms of a used car salesman approach and try

to pull something over somebody's eyes.

As a leader, you truly have to think like that.

You've got to think of the wind so that you can then communicate that and

it's an authentic, it's an authentic.

So then it's not about being inauthentic and trying to pull

the wool over somebody's eyes.

It's about coming up with a vision, a mission, a values, a purpose that truly

does resonate because it is a win.

And then it's just down to, can you communicate that effectively and

clearly and compellingly enough to get that buy in so I think that.

I think that's very well said, very well said.

I like that.

Yeah.

I'll, I'll mention one quick thing that's completely unrelated, but

I'll tie it back to this Dallas.

It's this.

So there's an author out there that I really enjoy his books, Ryan Holiday.

He's written quite a few books that I enjoy.

Uh, and Ryan Holiday.

Obstacle is the way, right?

Isn't that Ryan Holiday?

Obstacle is the way?

Yeah.

Obstacle is the way.

Love that.

Yep.

But he has this thing when he talks about writing that he spends a year

doing research, a year doing writing, and then a year promoting the book.

And so for us as leaders or as managers.

It's important to remember that same framework, right?

We do the research, we then put the plan together, and then

typically we walk away, right?

We hand them the plan and we say, wash our hands, our work is done.

I did the plan.

Y'all go execute on the plan.

We forget that last bit, that last third.

Is the sales approach, right?

That last third is the persuasion.

That last third is getting the buy in from everyone else.

So if I could challenge people listening with that one thing,

it's like, do your research, do your presentation piece, right?

The actual thing, put the thing together, but then don't forget

a third of your work is to be.

Don, steal after you've done the thing, right?

After you've presented the thing, you still have a third

of your work left to do.

So if we just embrace that kind of mental thought that the work isn't

done yet just because I presented it, that will help us not feel frustrated

when people don't jump up and down with excitement over our new plan.

Yeah, when you've done the research, you're

only a third of the way there.

And so it's like, Hey, you've got another two thirds to go in terms

of crafting it and delivering it.

And then, you know, really getting your hands dirty.

And when I, when you say that, it makes me think of the amount of

times that you have to remind people.

It's like when Ford, you know, has a F 150 commercial, they don't tell

16 year olds, okay, you know, now that you got your driver's license,

you need to buy a Ford truck.

And that's it.

They give them one commercial and they're 16 and it's done.

It's like, no, they spent the rest of their life.

Every time they turn on a sporting event or any kind of TV show, they're

going to, or any kind of social media, they're going to get this

advertisement saying you need a Ford F 150, 150 because Ford knows that it's.

It has to be continually sharing the vision of what it means to buy an F 150.

And so I think as leaders, we can't just go halfway.

We can have a great vision, great mission, great values.

But if we just put it out there and go, those people, they just didn't see it.

They didn't get it.

Let's go a step further and really dig into the details.

I want to talk about that because you are passionate about creating high

performing teams and building culture.

When you think about culture and creating a strong culture, growing a

strong culture, you have your company and your teams, and you work with many

entrepreneurs and companies and teams.

What is that?

What does that look like for you?

How do you approach that when you talk about strong cultures

and creating outperforming teams?

How would you, how do you

approach that?

Yeah, I would say the very first thing is that.

Your culture in your business, your organization, even in your family,

your culture is revealed when you as the leader are not present.

So your true culture isn't what happens when you're in the room.

It isn't what happens when you're in the building.

The true culture is revealed when you are not present.

That is the actual true culture.

So if you want to get a better feel for your actual true culture.

You have to do some research into what actually takes place

when you are not present.

But when it comes to building a strong culture, again, I think

about marketing and advertising and the confusion of those words.

I think that we have to first understand what is culture because

over the last few years, culture has become sort of a buzzword, right?

Everyone is talking about company and organization culture, right?

Culture comes from the same Latin word as cultivate.

Yeah.

And so when we think about cultivating, it's a farming term, right?

We have to cultivate the soil.

And here's the interesting thing Dallas about cultivating the soul is

that we do have to cultivate the soul initially to break it up, to break up

the rocks, to break up the hard soul.

But then in order to cultivate it properly, we also have to add

nutrients into that soul sometimes.

We also have to know what is present and what is not present, right?

We can't just start adding nutrients to the soul.

If they already exist there, right?

If we're adding one certain type of nutrient and it's already there,

we're wasting time, we're wasting energy, we're wasting effort.

So we have to get clear about what is present in the soil.

Then once we plant the seeds in that soil, the cultivation is still not done, right?

Because what happens once the seeds are there and they start to grow and they

start to sprout, these little things start popping up everywhere called weeds.

And so the way farmers Take care of those weeds in big gardens is

they cultivate, they teal between the rows to remove those weeds out.

And so when we think about culture is not something that you set and forget, right?

You cannot just set this thing up like we're going to do culture

once a year at our annual event.

We're going to do culture.

Maybe once a quarter, when we get together as a quarterly team

meeting, that's going to be our, we're going to focus on culture.

Yeah, that is not what sets and creates culture.

And I love the quote.

I think it was, uh, Peter Drucker, maybe who said culture

eats strategy for breakfast.

Culture eats strategy for breakfast.

Exactly right.

Yeah.

And a few years ago, we witnessed that firsthand, right?

So a few years ago, as this pandemic swept around the world, all of these

organizations had developed and had strategies in place for that year, right?

They had all these things that poured time and attention.

They had these wonderful strategies in place.

And then immediately As March rolled around that year, those strategies

went out the window really quickly.

And what happened when those strategies went away is the true

culture was revealed in those moments.

And that is where we ended up with kind of this whole notion of, you

know, so many organizations started talking about no one wants to work.

No one wants to show up in the reality was the pandemic

didn't break people's cultures.

The pandemic merely revealed the true cultures that already existed.

I love that, man.

Oh, we could talk for, we'd need another four or five episodes to go through all

of that in great detail, because I can, I can totally see what you're saying.

I love the fact that you point out.

The root word, basis of culture and the idea of cultivation.

And I think that when you listen to what you were describing to me, when it, when

you were describing that, like all the actions that one takes to create this

healthy plant, you know, you're adding nutrients, you're tilling the soil.

You're preparing the way you're adding the nutrients for it to thrive.

You're removing obstacles like weeds that are growing up, choked out.

All these are things are, it's a very action oriented thing.

And I think that when you overlay that.

Against your first statement about culture is a lot, has a lot to do with

what is going on when you're not there, you know, what, and, and so when you

look at those two things together, it's like saying this, when culture has a

lot to do with what people are doing intentionally and to create something.

And so it's like, even when you're not there, and so it's like, what

activities, if you want to know what your culture of your company is.

What activities are you routinely engaging in, deliberately, intentionally,

or even unintentionally, that are so consistent it's creating something?

What are you cultivating?

Alright, and then I think when we look at the strength of a culture,

you know, if you can't take a vacation without things falling apart.

And that's, you know, that's telling about the culture of the company.

If you are saying we have this culture and we have, we ascribe to these values

and yet the plant that you're growing is either withering or it's not, it's,

you're growing an apple tree and it's in the, and there's an orange tree there.

Like, you know, whatever, you know, it just, it really, it

speaks to the, the strength of it.

If you can, if your, your activities are in alignment with creating

that healthy plant, I think that has a lot to do with the strength.

So I think that culture is such a, it's like you said, it's a, it's a buzzword,

but it's a buzzword that nobody really takes the time to understand and

understand that how, how it's, it goes back to where we started the conversation

is that there's some foundational things that we can be consistent

about that we can do and put in place.

And, and it's those some, somewhat some boring things like people don't

understand connection and relationships.

You can get lost in the transaction, but if you don't have a relationship

with someone or connection with someone, it doesn't matter if you have

an SOP long term, because then all of a sudden COVID hits and they don't

show up because there's no connection, there's no real reason for them to.

And so I just think there's so many things there with that analogy

that you described that is so true.

I think it's a very good analogy with, with culture and it's important.

So what are some things that you like?

You know, I, we talked a little bit about, we had a book come out as well in October.

We talk a lot, you know, one of the things that we, we talk about in the book

is a unique, it's different, is as it relates to building culture is, is ritual.

And I feel like rituals are lost in, in business a lot of times because

they, we just don't see the value of that, but rituals are not some

kind of religious thing necessarily.

It's a shared experience and it's something that we're doing in, you know,

when we want to make, we want to take a big idea and to squeeze it into something

physical, you know, a lot of times.

But if it's a end of the year celebration where we can get up and recognize

people and we have a ceremony for them, I mean, that's something that we can

do in a way that has people talking about it or even if it's taking people

out every month for their birthday.

What are some things that you have done in your organization, your company that

you feel whether it's rituals or not?

That really helps strengthen your culture.

Yeah.

That's such a loaded question for me, Dallas, because I feel

there's so many things that we do with intention now, right?

Before I didn't believe that I was a good leader, that I was a good manager.

Therefore, there was nothing I could do about it, right?

It was their fault.

They were lazy.

They didn't want to work all these things.

And since I've decided to shift that identity.

And lean into figuring out as a good leader, as a good manager, there are

so many things now that are rituals.

So many things that are routine that honestly, between you and I, and even

my team knows this, I hate, there's some things I hate doing, but I

know that it's good for the culture.

And two things come to mind.

Number one is that I've yet to meet a person Dallas that likes

someone who is a hypocrite.

Yet, as leaders, as managers, so often we attempt to hold people to a different

standard than we hold ourselves to.

Specifically, what I mean by that is, human nature says that when

we look around, we judge other people based on their actions.

But we judge ourselves based on our intention.

So an example of that.

Someone comes into work late.

So we're supposed to be here, let's just say eight o'clock in the morning.

Someone comes in at 820.

So I judge them based on their action.

I say, huh, in my head, I'm thinking.

You know, they're lazy.

They probably overslept.

They're probably out partying.

They, you know, all these things because they were late.

Now, if it was me coming in at 820, I say, I'm, you know, I was rushing to get here.

I had a flat tire.

The kids were sick or I had to bring the kids here, right?

My intention was to be here at eight.

Sure.

I didn't make it.

But I give myself a pass because my intention was in the right place.

And so as leaders, I think it's important just to remember that when we look

around, that we by default judge people solely based on the action that we see.

And there's so much more missing to the story, always there's so much

more missing to that story that is so important to understand their intention

was probably in the right place.

But they didn't execute because something came up and what

ties hand in hand with that.

And I, I think this is unique.

Um, and this is a challenge for us because for me as a leader by default, my default

is to be suspicious of other people.

Like that's the way I'm wired.

I don't trust people, right?

I think part of that is American culture in general.

We tend to be a very suspicious, non trusting culture.

One of the very first conversations that I have with any new hire,

when I meet with them one on one is this, we default here to trust.

In other words, we trust you.

We trust that you're going to do the right thing.

We trust that you're going to live up to our expectations that you've agreed to.

We trust that you're going to live out our core values, which again,

you're aware of, you've agreed to, you know, live up to these things.

Yeah.

We're going to default to trust, but.

You will have the opportunity from time to cause us to have suspicion.

Your job is to not give us those reasons because we already trust you.

We trust that you're going to do the right things.

We trust you.

And that is a very foreign conversation for most people, Dallas.

They're not used to that.

One of our most recent hires.

So every week we meet in a team meeting and everyone puts their commitments.

On the big screen for everyone to see.

So we have a commitment that we make for this week.

And so next week on the screen, we highlight in either green, meaning we

did that commitment yellow, meaning we did part of that commitment or red,

meaning we didn't do that commitment.

And so one of our most recent hires came to me one day and we were actually

at lunch, he said, all these people are marking all these various things

green every week, how do you actually know they're doing these things?

And my answer was.

Because I trust them.

And so we had this whole conversation around how that

is the default of this culture.

And I was very blunt with this person.

I said, look, if you are questioning, if other people are lying, I said, a great

place to start would be with yourself.

Like are you feeling a bit conflicted by some of your responses, but the way

you're putting some of your answers on this screen, that is the place to start.

And like you said earlier, I'm a huge proponent and believer.

All leadership.

Starts with the person in the mirror, that is where leadership starts.

And so that's the conversation I had with this.

Again, brand new hire been here, you know, a month or two at the time.

And that though, sets the tone for the culture as well.

Right.

Yes.

I think it shows too, you're consistent because you know, if you say on your

first day, we trust you and then you just go and say, did you do this?

Did you do that?

Did you do that?

And you just, your actions don't cultivate trust back to your old analogy.

Right.

And then there's a, it's like.

Dissonance or resistance, because it's like, wait a minute, it's

not, it's like you're talking about, there's a hypocrisy there.

And I think sometimes leaders, whether it's out of fear or whatever, will,

will not be consistent on that.

I think you're doing a great job by stating the value.

We trust you.

This is our MO.

That's what you have on day one.

And then allowing that to play out.

So you're not going back and saying, you, you said green, but did you

really, did you, can you show me that?

Can you prove that you got that?

I mean, but, but to your point, you know, that person, it was almost so

foreign to them at first when you were sitting there having a conversation.

Well, how do you know that?

Because we trust people, that's how we operate and, and something about that

was making them feel uncomfortable.

But I think that's so good because then it gives you that opportunity

to have the conversation and say, this is what trust looks like here.

It means that when people put green on their screen, it's green because

they said it is because we trust them.

And I think that's so cool because you've tied so many different elements there.

I love too, how you're making commitments every week.

One of the things that our coaching system is making

commitments and we do it monthly.

But I love it because, and I love the accountability piece because you're

saying, this is what I'm going to do.

And even though you trust them, they say, if it's green is green, you're

still putting it up and saying, I want everybody in this, on this call to

know this is what I'm committed to.

And there's an accountability piece of that.

I love that.

That's so awesome.

That's so awesome.

And it's a safe place to be accountable because I can put green or red

and it's like, okay, I, you know.

But you're still putting yourself out there and still making commitments

on what you want to do this week.

So well

done.

Thank you.

Thank you.

What I would say though, tying back to mere leadership, like I have

commitments on the screen as well.

I have expectations that I have to live up to as well.

In other words, I don't hold them to a different standard than I hold myself to.

Right.

I am the, in this case, I'm the owner, I am the founder of this

company, 100 percent ownership.

So there's no one to tell me what to do, how to do it.

Every single day I clock in when I get to work, I clock out when I go to lunch,

I clock out when I leave for the day.

I hold myself to the same standard that I expect other people to live at.

And I see it so many times where we have different expectations for

other people than we're unwilling to hold ourselves to those things.

I think that's awesome.

I think that said, again, it goes back to consistency and the culture

that you're trying to create.

And as the leader, if you're saying, this is what we espouse and this is what we say

we're about, this is what we do, you got to be willing to walk the walk, you know?

And I think that's really great, man.

This has just been outstanding.

I love this.

I think this is fantastic conversation.

I would love to, I would love to ask you a question at the end of our show.

We always ask listeners who is someone they would like to listen

to or watch on the last 10%.

And it can be anybody.

Some people say famous people, some people say their cousin, some people

say a friend of theirs doesn't matter.

Who would you like to see or hear on the

last 10%?

Yeah.

That's a really tough question.

The answer I would go to though is, you know, we're in, our

office is located in downtown.

We're in a small town, but downtown.

And there's a lot of foot traffic in front of our building because

the bus station's down here.

And what I've learned over the years of being located down here is that

every person has a very unique story.

And sometimes we get so wrapped up in our own stuff, our own lives, our own That

the stories around us get missed out on.

And so the answer to your question would be, I would love for it to be

just a random person walking by because again, for people, yeah, for people

like you who are great at what you do, which is drawing out right through

interviewing, through asking questions.

You could extract those stories and then within every story, there's always

life lessons that come out of that.

I love that.

Very

good.

That's the first time.

That's the first, that's the first answer we've heard like that.

That's a very cool.

But I love that.

I love just the, the random man on the street interview or

woman on the street interview.

I love that.

Okay.

All right.

We'll see, we'll see if we can't do something like that in the future.

Cause I do like that idea.

Maybe we could, maybe we could structure a show or something like that.

That would be a, that would be a really cool episode.

Maybe.

All right.

So we have talked about so many things and you've added, I think,

tremendous value to the listeners today.

I'm sure everybody's enjoyed this episode.

If something you said has resonated with them and they would like to get

in touch with you, whether it's about marketing or culture or your accelerator

program or anything, the book, how can people find you and what you do?

So

two places, first is the website, ugly mug, marketing.

com.

All of our contact info is there.

All of our company, you know, social channels are there.

And then the other would be my personal Instagram page,

which is where I post the most.

That's just at fire yourself and I pushed all kinds of life stuff there as well.

Okay.

At fire yourself.

We'll put both of those in the show notes so that you'll have access to that.

If you've listened to the last 10 percent in your car, don't

stop and write anything down.

Just look at the show notes after the show.

Thank you again, Wayne, for this has just been a fantastic conversation.

I appreciate your time and all that you do.

And thank you for your work at Ugly Mug and thank you for being an advocate for

culture and performance and just all the things we've talked about today.

It's been very good, enlightening conversation.

Thank you so much Dallas for the opportunity.

And one, one closing thought for me is just simply this, that

consistency creates miracles.

So whether that's as a parent, a husband, a leader, whatever it

may be, that when we learn to be consistent, miracles will occur.

I love it.

I love it.

Thanks, Wayne.

Have a great week.

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