The salient focus of this podcast episode revolves around the burgeoning trend of tiny homes, particularly emphasizing the innovative concept of container home living. Our esteemed guests, Jonathan Palley from Clever Tiny Homes and Renee Sievers from Tiny Fest, illuminate the evolution of shelter from primitive structures to contemporary, sustainable solutions. We engage in a comprehensive discussion regarding the myriad advantages of tiny homes, such as their environmental benefits, cost-effectiveness, and the flexibility they offer in various living situations. Furthermore, we delve into the intricacies of tiny home construction, exploring the diverse options available for customization, financing, and off-grid living. As we navigate through these topics, listeners will glean valuable insights into the transformative potential of adopting a sustainable lifestyle through the embrace of tiny homes. Mankind's quest for shelter has undergone profound evolution, transitioning from rudimentary bamboo huts to contemporary concrete towers, each iteration reflecting the prevailing societal values and technological advancements. In this enlightening discourse, we delve into the burgeoning phenomenon of tiny homes, particularly focusing on the innovative approach of container home living. As we explore this sustainable lifestyle choice, we engage with Jonathan Palley from Clever Tiny Homes, who elucidates the distinctive characteristics and advantages of tiny dwellings. The discussion highlights the versatility of these homes, showcasing their suitability as primary residences, accessory dwelling units, and even off-grid solutions. This exploration is further enriched by insights from Renee Sievers, the visionary behind Tiny Fest, an event dedicated to celebrating the tiny home movement. Together, they illuminate the myriad possibilities that tiny homes present, encouraging listeners to consider a more sustainable and minimalist lifestyle that prioritizes quality over quantity in living spaces.

Takeaways:

• The evolution of human shelter has progressed from rudimentary structures to sophisticated designs over the centuries.
• Sustainable living practices are increasingly becoming essential in addressing the climate crisis we face today.
• Tiny homes, particularly those built on wheels, offer a viable housing solution that promotes mobility and flexibility.
• Understanding local zoning laws is crucial for anyone considering the placement of a tiny home on their property.
• Financial institutions are beginning to recognize tiny homes as legitimate residences, offering various financing options for potential buyers.
• The design and layout of tiny homes can create a surprisingly spacious feeling, often exceeding initial expectations of size.

Links referenced in this episode:

• stardustbuilding.org
• clevertinyhomes.com
• tinyfestevents.com
• idealhomeimprovementaz.com
• mrelectric.com/phoenix-metro

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• Clever Tiny Homes
• Tiny Fest
• Ideal Home Improvement
• Stardust Building Supplies
• Mr. Electric of Phoenix-Metro

Since the dawn of time, mankind has searched for ways to shelter themselves from the elements.

Over the centuries, these shelters have evolved from bamboo huts to concrete towers.

The last few years, there's been a push to save the planet.

Are you ready to embark on a more sustainable lifestyle?

Look no further.

You're about to enter the adventures of Container Home Living.

And now, contractor, radio and TV personality and your host for Boxcar Universe, Steve Dubel.

Hi, this is Steve Dubel, host of Boxcar Universe.

And here's what's coming up on this week's edition of Boxcar Universe.

You know, in past few weeks we've been talking about tiny homes and we have a great, great show planned for you talking about tiny homes.

Jonathan Pally is here from Clever Tiny Home as well as Renee Sievers is here.

She is the creator of that great event in California called Tiny Fest.

And we're going to be talking with them about the craze of tiny homes and a whole bunch of things on why if you are considering building a tiny home, these people are the people you need to know and talk to.

So, so I want to welcome all of you to the show today.

Jonathan and Renee, thanks so much for being on Boxcrow Universe today.

Thanks for having us.

Great to have you.

And Renee, good to see you again.

Good to hear from you.

Thank you.

Yes, it's good to be back.

Yes, I know a lot of things happening and you know, I know every time, every time, you know, when you have your Tiny Fest, it's like I trying to make sure I get, get out to where you're at and you know, life takes over.

I said, can I tell you, it's a fantastic event.

So you're have to make it out.

I know, I know the one that's one of a kind, the one that she did here in Scottsdale, Arizona, you know, a few years ago, was fabulous.

Was fabulous.

I still have a lot of pictures that we have from that event.

But John, tell us a little bit about your company Clever Tiny Homes and how you got started.

Yeah, Clever Tiny Homes were a manufacturer of tiny homes on wheels as well as what's called modular buildings, meaning that we also build units on foundation from small to slightly bigger.

But we're, you know, we're, we started a few years ago.

We've shipped hundreds of hundreds of homes all throughout the United States in that time.

We take a slightly different approach than other builders out there, many of which are wonderful.

Our approach is a little bit more of a product based approach.

So we have a standard Set of models that we've spent literally hundreds and hundreds of hours refining, really trying to get the details right that we continue to iterate on.

And we offer those with some customizations, but not a lot of customizations.

What that allows us to do as, as a builder or manufacturer of tiny homes is to build really high quality homes, focus on quality and figure out how we can build them as cost effectively as possible.

So we are, I think, known for doing designer, contemporary design homes, really good quality materials at a pretty good price point.

And that's because of the focus we have on production process and on design for manufacturing.

Well, that's, I'm sure a lot of the listeners that are interested in getting one.

Those are a lot of key things that are going to build a quality home.

Absolutely.

I think, you know, there's, there's a lot of options out there.

When you're looking at purchasing a tiny home, particularly a tiny house on wheels.

There's many great builders out there, all doing different things.

So, you know, if you're looking at, at working with a company like ours, you know, understanding what makes companies unique is important.

Understanding where the focus is is very important.

Again, for us, you know, it's hard to describe over a podcast what our homes look like, but definitely, you know, maybe if you're listening to this, you know, check out our website, check out our YouTube.

We've got a lot of video and visual content that will help explain it.

But we really, you know, we do a lot of contemporary high end homes.

What we think is a pretty good price in the, in the market.

That's out there.

That's great.

Do you find that people are using them as secondary dwellings on their property or are they just going off grid and wanting to have a tiny home on, you know, a parcel of land out, you know, away from the city?

So we're talking about tiny house on wheels so specifically.

And so these tiny house on wheels are units that are generally built like a normal house.

At least we're building again, you know, using modern codes, California building code things.

And then they're put on a trailer chassis.

And so they are technically park model RVs.

They're legally a park model RV, but they're, but they're otherwise they're nothing like an RV.

They're, they're a house other than they happen to be unreal.

So just to define for listeners out there what we mean by a tiny house on wheels, but yeah, it's all of the above.

And then some, certainly a lot of folks are using them as what you're suggesting, the kind of accessory dwelling unit, the in law quarter, the mother in law suite, the casita.

You know, there's a lot of different terms that are used for that and that, that is a segment of the market that's allowed in some places.

It's not allowed in other places.

Certainly some folks have them as, you know, a kind of vacation home off, off grid sometimes.

We also have a lot of our customer base, it's their primary home.

We have a lot of folks putting these into tiny home communities.

We have a lot of folks putting these into land that they owned or a friend owns or maybe on a farm or maybe, you know, in someone else's backyard.

And it's, it's, it's their home.

And that's what we're focused on building of, is building a great home for you.

So that's, that's, that's most of our market.

And, and then yeah, as you said, there's off grid, there's vacation kind of stuff.

There's you know, glamping kind of stuff as well as that kind of adu.

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You hear, you know, that's, that's.

I think that's kind of like the latest buzzword glamping.

It is.

I think it's a smaller segment than maybe for tiny homes and folks have historically realized but, but growing.

Sure.

But I think for, you know, folks listening to this that are considering this as a home, there's advantages to being on wheels in some situations that, you know, allows you to create flexibility as a building.

That's something we're very excited about is, you know, you can, you can move it so you're not tied to that piece of land.

That's a really powerful, there's some cost advantages in a lot of situations.

So if it works for you, that tiny house and wheels has a lot of great advantages over traditional stick built or modular construction.

It's true.

You know, we have, there is one tiny home community that I am familiar with.

It's when you go north of Phoenix about an hour and a half up in Prescott Valley, Arizona, we could be in May or.

But it's right up in that same area that I think the other good thing is like for instance, people like you mentioned that are mobile that are maybe like to travel and they're going cross country and you know, they want to be in familiar surroundings and not, you know, search for a hotel or a motel, you know, every time they want to start.

I would say, you know, the tiny homes are not RVs.

I mean they're legally RVs, but they're really not, they're not really designed to be true.

Traveled with it is a home.

You can move with a certain element of ease.

But you know, these are built again very well insulated, you know, built with at least we build with siding that's going to last decades and roofs that are going to last decades and decades and you know, drywall and all these things.

They're very heavy.

So I wouldn't say they're, they're, they're not an rv.

You don't want to go traveling with them, you can move them.

But you know, just to give folks an idea, these are units are anywhere between 16 to 30,000 pounds.

So it's a, it's a pretty hefty.

So it's a hefty.

Yeah, it's a hefty trail.

It's a real building.

It's a real building.

Buildings aren't well built.

Buildings are not light.

Okay.

You're not meant to go down the, down the interstate at 80 miles an hour.

Yeah.

And, but that's also part of the, the value is, you know, we do get group tiny house on wheels with RVs or even with your traditional park models that a lot of people are familiar with your kind of traditional trailer home park models.

But the advantage of these homes that we build, which again are like these high quality built homes, is the durability.

You know, everyone knows if you buy an RV in 10 years, it's worth basically nothing.

Right?

Right.

And in two years or one year, you've lost 50% of the value.

That's not the case with tiny house on Wheels because you are fundamentally getting a building that is built, built with materials that are built to last decades.

And so, you know, a 10 year old tiny home is almost as good as new and that it's going to maintain a lot of its value.

So from a financial perspective, you know, we see a lot of folks who are maybe deciding between a rv, but they're not really planning to travel with it, they're more planning to live in it, like a travel trailer or a traditional park model or a tiny house on wheels.

And for that person who's looking for something that's maybe a little bit more costly but has value five years from now, 10 years from now, is obviously much better insulated, much more energy efficient, all these other things.

The tiny house on wheels as a product makes a lot of sense.

It's obviously much more environmentally friendly because it's, it's it's well insulated and it's built to last.

Sure.

There's a lot of advantage to tiny house and wheels over that travel trailer or park model.

What, what's, what's the size, sizes of the units that you build?

When we're talking about tiny house on wheels, we're kind of by code, we're talking about below 400 square feet.

So we, you know, we build a lot of units that are 399 square feet.

We have a very popular, clever one which is a beautiful one bedroom that's got a, you know, full bedroom, full bath, full kitchen, full living room.

We also have a two bedroom as well that's right under 400 square feet.

And then we also do smaller units.

We have a one bedroom that's 250 square feet and another studio that's a 220 square feet.

So these are the kind of anywhere between 200 and 400 square feet.

Okay.

And I would, I would add, you know, if you haven't been in a tiny home, if you haven't had the pleasure of going to tiny fest, you know, we were talking about the beginning that Renee organizes.

You might think 400 square feet, that seems impossibly small.

My bedroom's 400 square feet.

Right.

But the way we design these and the way they're decorated and the way they're laid out are very different than a traditional home.

And most people walk into our 400 square foot home and think it's 600 or 700 square feet because there's a lot of design work and dare I say tricks, but visual aesthetic tricks that are, that make a small space feel much bigger, much more, much more spaces than your traditional home.

Yeah.

Do you, when you, when you build them, do you build them with metal framing or wood framing?

We build them with wood frame.

You know, we, we build both in our factory, both tiny house on wheels, as well as what's called modular, meaning it's designed to go on foundation and it's built to local building codes.

Particularly we, we mostly do.

Today, we mostly do California building code.

And not to get too nerdy about it, although I can nerd out for hours on this, but, you know, residential construction is generally done using wood frame construction largely has to do with the insulation.

You know, wood is a better insulator and so you're able to get better insulation values in the walls with wood construction than you are with metal, particularly for, for, for residential woods, obviously also much better for the environment than you have for metal framing because it's, it's carbon negative captures carbon is supposed to use as carbon as well.

Yeah, it's, you know, because.

Yeah, I've seen different companies use both just for their own, their own preference.

Yeah, yeah.

Metal, I mean metal, metal framing came out of the commercial world and the multi story world, but it certainly made its way there.

I think part of that is it is lighter metal framing.

So for a lot of like DIY tiny homes, there's advantage to that because you, we do a lot of work before we build in cad, meaning on the computer calculating weights and balance and stuff like that.

Because our units are very heavy metal can save on weight.

That's an advantage of that.

You can also kind of prefabricate metal easier.

So you can kind of make kits that are pre cut and pre drilled.

That's a nice advantage for metal, particularly in the like DIY space.

There's a lot of great.

One of the great things about tiny homes is it's a housing product that people can, you know, if you, if you are up for the project, know what you're doing.

You know, it's, it's a much more manageable product way to build your own house than, than trying to build a 2,000 square foot house.

Right.

Something that can be done in a backyard.

Yeah, absolutely.

And you know, there I, you know, I hear a lot of people out there and I, as I always try and urge all the listeners to be able to, you know, if you are skilled and you'd like to do a project like what John is talking about, you should probably consult someone like him, like John or somebody in the industry that can give you some guidance.

And you know, just because you think you know what's going on and how to build it doesn't mean it's the right way.

And I see that a lot in conventional construction.

You know, DIY projects that people do have run amok, we'll say.

And they just, you know, they, even after they thought they were watching something on YouTube that was the right way to do it, but it's, it's kind of strange because people turn around and they, I don't know, I guess they, you know, they, they, they let their ego get in the way when they're trying to think that they're doing something right and they want to show everybody and they get on YouTube and they get on camera and then, you know, there's sometimes I see stuff on there that you know is completely like wrong.

There's no other way to describe it.

But yet, you know, they, they should have done their own research if they want to put their face on it on a video instructing other people on how to do something.

So I think another way of saying what you're saying is don't believe everything you see on the Internet.

Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, don't believe everything you say on the Internet.

But no, to build that, you know, you know, while we, while I'll say, first of all, I'm happy to, we're always happy to, to help the industry and help anyone doing it.

You know, we, we, we are a high volume builder.

We're not the right person to go to for a DIY project.

You know, we have 150 person factory that builds three homes a week.

So, you know, we're not, we're certainly the model if you're looking for something that's turnkey, you know, we're not, not the right model for.

There's other great people out there, really wonderful people out there that you can find online that are more providing kits and DIY stuff that I would definitely check out.

But yeah, to your point, you know, these, these do take hundred even with professionals, even with a production facility where we have trained electricians and plumbers and framers and that's all they're doing is building these homes every day.

It still takes hundreds of hours, hundreds and hundreds of hours to, to, to build a home.

Sure, absolutely.

Absolutely.

We're going to take a short break.

When we come back, we're going to be talking with Renee about Tiny Fest and, and it's the place to go when you want to see, you know, the different types of tiny homes.

And she'll share a little bit about her journey from getting involved with tiny homes.

So I want everybody to hang tight.

You're listening to Boxcar Universe.

This is Steve Dubell from Boxcar Universe.

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All right, we are back and you're listening to Boxcar Universe.

And we are talking tiny homes today with Jonathan, Jonathan Paley.

And also we are here with Renee Sievers from Tiny Fest.

And that is the place to go if you are interested in seeing all different types of tiny homes.

So with no further ado, let's bring Renee into the conversation.

Renee, thanks for being on Boxcar Universe today.

Great to have you back.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'm glad to be back.

I'm so glad to have met you years ago when we did TinyFest Southwest there in Phoenix area in Scottsdale.

We've since then been really focused on having the events in California.

But I was just mentioning a few minutes ago off air, it's a great way to plan a wonderful vacation.

You know, just plan it around Tiny Fest for April next year, Southern California.

We'll get more details coming up.

But it's a great way to incorporate, you know, planning for a wonderful future for yourself and having a vacation while you're at it.

Oh, you know, in.

Yeah.

And there's a lot of, there's a lot of great things to see.

Not just the tiny, the tiny homes themselves, but the other events and stuff that you have planned around the exhibit, which was really good.

I was trying, I was funny, too.

I'll never forget this.

I was trying to get the.

There was a lady there who was on stilts.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah.

And she was, I think she was, it looks like she had, if I remember right, she had like two hula hoops and she was twirling them and stuff like that.

And I was kidding her.

I was trying to get a.

See if what she was doing in her off time.

She'd come and do some 10 foot high ceiling drywall work for me, but she said, no, she can't do it.

But.

Well, you know, we always say one of our biggest taglines as we celebrate tiny in a big way.

And we do try to make it, you know, big a celebration, you know, make it really enjoyable for people.

I mean, it's enjoyable just to walk in these houses.

Right.

We don't need that extra entertainment because people love walking inside and seeing what does it feel like, you know, and how does it feel to be inside one of these?

And the smiles are big whether we have, you know, live musicians or not.

But we do.

Yeah.

So, yeah, no, I remember, I remember, you know, like, like Like Johnston said earlier, you know, you just don't know what, you know what when you walk into one.

Some people, they just don't know what they're going to feel.

I remember when I walked into my first one, it was like, wow, this is really, it's really nice.

And like the layout is so important because it makes you feel, like he said, in a bigger unit.

But I would say everything is convenient.

People's reaction, oh, yeah, sorry about that.

Yeah, everything is, everything's convenient.

Sorry, I would just say that, yeah, most people's reaction is, this is bigger than I thought.

This feels bigger than I thought.

That's the.

And it's very, very seldom that we get someone that, that doesn't feel that way because they are designed in a way to walk in and feel spacious and feel roomy.

And I do hear a lot of people, well, my husband's 6 foot, 6 foot 3, so a tiny house isn't going to work for him.

But then they walk in, you know, somehow they get them to come anyway and they walk in and realize, oh, wow, the ceilings in here are, you know, are 10ft or 12ft, they're much higher than a standard home.

He feels all this space above his head.

So really stepping in one and feeling the design and the flow of things is very, very convincing and reassuring that, yeah, this is a good choice.

Yeah, it's, it's so it's a good choice as well as, you know, people need to, to, you know, you can only see so much on the Internet image, but like seeing is believing and when you see one, you'll be able to understand exactly what Rene and Jonathan are talking about when it comes to, you know, functionality, I think in having a unit and being able to live in something.

Now, for our listeners who haven't heard you before, Renee, tell them how you got started with tiny homes.

Well, I actually got started 10 years ago, a little over 10 years ago, just as a empty nester and, you know, a single person that loved to travel and just felt I'd already learned I didn't need a lot of stuff.

So it was really easy for me to move into a tiny house.

I saw them online and bought one for myself and I've now lived over 10 years and under 100 square feet.

So it's very comfortable lifestyle to me and has opened so many doors because the expenses are so low.

But I was enjoying tiny house living so much and seeing that there were a few festivals, you know, one in the central part of the us, one in East Coast.

And I just felt like more people needed to see the homes and understand the possibilities that they had to make that change in their life.

And I.

And it went really well.

And I thought, I think I could take this show on the road.

So I headed out to California, did some shows there.

Head west, young girl.

Head west.

Yes.

Yeah, up in Oregon there, in Arizona, we did a Texas show.

But I feel like California is a great spot.

There's a very high need there.

There's a lot of amazing builders there.

There are a lot of municipalities that are relaxing their rules there.

And for those that aren't from there, it's a great place to travel to, you know, so if you're in another part of the country, which we have, people from all over the country come to TinyFest.

It's a nice way to get a, you know, vacation, a trip to the.

And make a big step forward toward a financially free future.

All.

All in one weekend.

Yeah, that's, that's really good.

Jonathan, you actually have a unique story on how you guys got connected when you started Clever Homes.

Well, we, we have used Tiny Fest to launch our products.

In fact, we use it to launch our, our whole company.

And it's a really.

We have since gone to a number of events and many of them are wonderful, but I think Renee just organizes a real top tier, tier one event that's difficult to explain, but everyone there is focused and motivated and about Tiny Homes, which is really nice.

But yeah, we launched our very first unit, our Clever S, at our prototype unit at TinyFest a few years ago, I guess more than a few years ago now, but.

And it was a, it was a success.

And then we, we launched our Clever One, which is our 400 square one bedroom, and we've launched our Clever One Lux.

So we, we like to use TinyFest.

We just kind of at a sentimental value at this point to launch new, new products because we, we really.

It kicked off our whole company.

Honestly, Clever Tiny Homes would not be here without TinyFest.

That's a, that's a statement, a true statement.

That's a great compliment, Renee.

It really is.

And, you know, that's one of the big reasons that I host the event is I want to help people, you know, with their homes, finding a home that they are comfortable in, that complements them, that adds value to their life and saves them money.

But we also really love helping businesses really show off the Quality work that they do.

And that's, you know, that's exactly what Jonathan has.

You know, I take every chance I can to promote his business because I really believe in his product.

It's.

I think they're tagline and correct me if I'm wrong, Jonathan, high end, but not at high cost.

Something, something very close to that.

I apologize for getting that wrong.

Yeah.

And it really is.

You can you see the quality.

And that's another thing.

Going into the events, you feel the space and how spacious it does feel, but you can also see and touch the quality.

Because I tell you what, I can make a lot of things look good online, but when you see it in person, that's the real, that's the real deal right there.

And, and with Clever, there's no difference.

What you see online is, you know, what you see that quality online and in person.

But not everyone's like that, you know, so it's good to, it's good to come check it out, see the quality of the materials because that's it.

There's variance there as well.

And they really have a variety of prices of tiny homes, but you also have a variety of materials made.

You have a variety or used.

Pardon me, materials used.

You have a variety of customization options.

You're going to pay more for a completely fully customized home.

But yeah, again, I think Clever does a nice job of.

They don't have a lot of customizations, but when you look at their homes, you know, this is the right one for you.

You don't, you don't need those customizations because it's, there's nothing I would change about their bathroom.

Like it's gorgeous.

Right.

So when you find something that's just right, you don't, you don't need a lot of customization.

So, yeah, so like if I could.

Double click on just one thing, you know, one thing I think is great about the tiny home community as it's evolved, you know, Tiny Fest.

We see, you know, a lot of customers come in and think, think that oh, you know, different builders are, you know, directly competing with each other for exactly the same customer, but we don't.

And obviously it's a competitive marketplace to some extent.

That's, that's true.

But what tinyfest I think highlights is that diff the different focuses that different companies have, right.

On different styles, different levels of customization.

You know, in TinyFest, people come into our homes and I'm often sending them to a different builder that I know that's there and that's Trustworthy because they're looking for something different than what we, we do.

Right.

And then, and then some people come in and go, this is, this is right for me.

And Great.

Right.

And I think, you know, everyone who spends their days and the amount of energy we do building homes wants to build homes that people are happy to live in and they want to build, you know, design homes that, that folks are, are happy with.

Right.

And so that's, that's always priority number one for us is that the home fits the, the person that's going to be in it.

Yeah.

I mean, that's so important that if you can't serve them with your product that you have a great, you know, what's the word I'm looking for.

A.

Great referral source for sending them to other quality places, which I think is so very important because that's like, you know, and it's the same with me with remodeling.

You know, if there's something that I can't do well, because I'm not going to do it if I can't do it well, I will refer them to somebody who is more in that field of what they're looking for.

And I think that's, that's the mark of a good business person and as well as watching out for the, the community.

So I think that's, I think that's very good.

But, Renee, why don't you give out your contact information because I know you've got a busy rest of your day and I want to make sure the listeners know how to reach you.

Yeah, absolutely.

Thank you so much.

The Tiny Fest is on Facebook and Instagram, just as at Tiny Fest events, and the website is actually tinyfest events.

So we will be announcing within the next, just couple of weeks.

And we're really excited to get, like I said, to be back in Southern California.

I can tell you that in April.

I can tell you that.

And the rest of it, you have to stay tuned.

It's okay.

Yes, it's going to be a great time.

And then if you are interested, you know, and you know, that's a really great time thinking about that.

You know, anybody who is getting a tax return needs, needs to come out to Tiny Fest.

You know, let's.

What better way could you do it to spend your, you know, your refund on or at least put, put a deposit towards a tiny home?

Well, certainly Go ahead.

Sorry, Renee.

Oh, I was just gonna say put it towards your future.

A lot of people blow their tax returns and you know, buy a big screen TV or something which is now pretty inexpensive, but you know, make that kind of a purchase where you could put it towards something that is creating a financially secure future for you.

That's right.

Don't go to Vegas and blow it.

Rene, good to have you on the show again.

Much success and have a good fourth quarter.

Thanks so much.

Good to talk to you again and have a great afternoon.

Okay, sounds good.

And with that, we're going to take a short break.

When we come back, we're going to talk some more to Jonathan from Clever Homes and Tiny the tiny homes that he builds.

So I want everybody to hang tight.

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All right, we are back and you are listening to Box Car Universe.

And with us today is Jonathan Paley from Clevertiny Home.

And we want to thank Renee Sievers from Tiny Fest for joining us in the last segment, giving us a little preview of what's going on with her, showcasing all the different types of tiny homes that are out there.

And she puts on a great show.

So next next year she's going to have her two in Northern and Southern California.

So make sure you check her out on the Internet and make plans to stop by and say hi.

But Jonathan, let's get back and start talking a little bit about some of the other things.

Okay.

So we touched base a little bit about, okay, the land question, where, you know, if you are have to find a land to move your, you know, your tiny home too, do you find that people are looking for stuff that might be off grid and that they could maybe just leave it on wheels wherever they're going.

Or maybe it could be, you know, I think a great idea would be to have a tiny home.

If you were going to build a traditional home and you had the large enough land that would be a great place to live in to have while you're building your actual, you know, big custom home?

Yeah, absolutely.

We just, we just last week delivered a home to someone who is doing a full gut remodel and you know, they're using the tiny home initially to live in and then, and then it'll become a guest house basically once they do the full gut remodel of the, of the main home.

But the, the two questions in there, one is off grid, the other is, is land?

If I can break those apart, you know, the, the answer to land is difficult to talk about on a podcast because it, it varies.

It's very, very location specific.

It's very specific to that piece of land.

Land use in terms of what you're allowed to do on a piece of land of course varies not just throughout the US not just within a city or a state.

It varies on a local level.

And so you have to really look into a piece of land.

Certainly there are areas that are more tiny home friendly places like San Diego County, Placer County, Mendocino county.

These are all places.

Portland, Oregon.

These are all places that have passed legislation encouraging tiny homes on wheels specifically and allowing those in a lot of situations by right.

As you get to other areas it again really depends.

It depends.

As you get to more rural land, often more is allowed.

As you get onto farms it allowed.

So it's hard to give a single answer.

And if you're looking at a piece of land, the best thing is to reach out to a company like ours and we can help you figure that out what you're allowed to do.

And oftentimes people are doing stuff they're not allowed to do.

We certainly don't condone that.

But it does happen pretty broadly because many of our zoning laws in this country are very out of date and they're not helpful to the residents.

No, no.

I know we found that out a lot about when in Arizona where it was only I think maybe three, four years ago now that they.

They change the law and you're allowed to have you know, a secondary dwelling.

Doesn't make it if it's difference if it's a tiny home or an ADU or whatever on.

On your property and they.

And they will allow it before it was like there's just no way.

So yeah, in.

Yeah, every place is.

You want to clarify for your listeners that the Arizona zone a lot is not allowed.

Tiny house on wheels.

It does have to be on foundation just so everyone is aware of that as they're listening to this.

Okay, well thanks for making that clarification.

That's good to know.

Good to know because a lot of people will like you said, they think they won't bother to check and do their due diligence to find out exactly what's allowed, what's not allowed.

They'll just do it and they could get themselves in a lot of trouble, maybe even find.

Yeah.

And unfortunately there is in our space some less than honest actors out there telling people no, it's on wheels.

You can put it anywhere.

That is not true.

So let me make sure anyone who's looking at a tiny house on wheels, if someone tells you that that's not true, Talk to a company that's done a lot of units that works with the governments and we can help you make that decision and help you understand that.

Yeah.

And that's not just in California.

That's pretty much anywhere.

That's anywhere.

Yeah, anywhere.

So.

And that's important.

But now go ahead.

The good news is more and more jurisdictions are explicitly allowing tiny house on wheels.

Are many, many places that you can put tiny house on wheels that, that they are allowed.

So it's a, you know, it's a, it's a growing solution to the housing crisis that we face in the US because it does have a lot of advantages.

Talking about off grid, just everyone knows what that means.

It means, for example, at least one of your utilities is not connected to the grid system or the municipal power or sewer or water.

We do a lot of those.

One of the growing trends we're finding is particularly off grid power.

In a lot of places.

It's extremely.

Even if there is grid power available, it's very, very expensive to run the power lines from wherever they are to where that tiny home is.

It just seems like, well, you just run some wire.

Well, the cost of wire today is very, very high.

Yes.

Copper is not cheap.

Copper is not cheap.

And trenching and all these other things.

And in many cases we find it's more economical and it's certainly more economical long term to put in solar and batteries.

And these homes are.

The phones we build at least are very, very efficient.

And so you can in many locations, obviously in an area with a lot of cloud cover, you need a backup generator.

But in many locations you can run the home off of a solar and batteries.

And we have a lot of customers successfully using completely off grid tiny homes.

Yeah.

Which is really cool and I think is a lot of the future.

We have a gentleman here in the valley who actually, my friend who actually has her, she, she actually go say this like three times fast.

She actually sells sheds here in Phoenix.

She's known as the shed gal.

And we got, when she first opened up her lot, she got a, a 30 foot.

I guess you.

Well, I don't know if it was a tiny home.

It was like a 30 by 10 office that they had built up north and brought it down.

And the gentleman I know who actually builds custom solar systems put a system on her, on her building.

So she gains all her power from solar?

Yeah, for everything.

So I mean you're right now are your home set up for solar?

We offer that as an option.

Oh, we've.

Oh absolutely.

And We've, I don't know, we've done at least 50 solar systems.

Oh years.

Yeah.

No, we, we do a lot of off grid as I mentioned.

Growing, growing off grid and it's a full package.

If anyone's interested, check out our YouTube clever tiny homes on YouTube and I've done a 30 minute video that goes into off grid solar about that.

But yeah, we do a turnkey off grid.

You know a lot of people use them for homes.

We, we have customers like you mentioned.

A little while ago we delivered an off grid tiny home that's being used as a sales room at the edge of a ski slope for.

I'm not entirely sure what they're selling but you know there was, there's no power there obviously.

It's, it's.

And people are literally.

But they've got the, the off grid power so they can power this and it's nice and warm because it's enough power to sure to heat it and it's very well insulated and lights and power for computer displays and people ski by and, and check out what they're selling.

That was kind of a, a kind of fun use of one of our homes.

They, we just didn't install the, the bedroom and the bed and they turned into a showroom.

We also have folks who have our homes that they rent out to construction sites as opposed to bringing in something you might familiar, the kind of trailer that is not well insulated and what have you.

They bring in these homes, they're really well insulated.

They're solar.

You get nice air conditioning.

We're just talking about it being very hot in Arizona.

So you, you have an office there that's a nice cool dude, comfortable temperature and it's all being run off, off grid.

So you just pull it up and you're there, you are good to go.

So absolutely, there's, there's good, there's, there's creative uses beyond just the home use and Stoller enables a lot of that.

Yeah.

But we do want to touch base before we wrap up the show.

We want to talk a little bit about cost and we talked a little bit earlier about the sizes of the tiny homes but cost and then you know, for instance, is there financing available for them and then what is it?

How long does it take to build?

Yeah, absolutely.

So our homes are between start at $80,000.

So between 80 and kind of $130,000.

And that's a, that's, that's a fairly all in price that includes delivery in the western US that include delivery in Arizona and discounted delivery nationwide.

We're a little bit different in that we do include delivery in our, in our quoted prices online.

We do have a few upgrades like solar we were just talking about.

That's not included in that price.

But so that's, that's what you're looking at is kind of 80 to $130,000.

It's a lot of money, but it's, you know, compared to a travel trailer or a home, it's you, you look at what you're getting, you look at the value of what you're getting and that's, that's what we always encourage customers to do.

And the, in terms of financing.

Yes.

No, we have many financing financing partners.

If you're using this as a primary residence, even sometimes as a secondary, you can get, you know, 25, 20 to 25 year loans with anywhere from 5% to 20% down, depending on, on your qualification.

We do have lenders who will lend down to, you know, 550 fico.

So there's, there's a pretty robust lending infrastructure behind that.

And we, we work with those lenders.

Yeah, well, well, that's all good to know, especially when you're trying to do your budget and figure out how much do you want to spend on the unit as far as the construction time, how long does it take to build one?

So there's two parts to that question.

For us to actually build it in a factory on our production floor, it's less than 30 days.

Now.

We have a bit of a backlog.

There's a time to buy the materials and make sure all materials are ready.

So generally from order to delivery is about three months on average.

It varies a little bit.

Yeah.

Huh.

About 90 days.

About, about 90 days.

Right now we're a little bit longer than 90 days.

Sometimes we're a little bit shorter, but it's around 90 days.

Okay, well, I mean, that's, that's average.

I mean, you know, in, and actually like you said, what if you have all the materials and you could get it, you could actually build it in 30 days.

I mean, that is really, really good.

But again, the other things factor into the timeline.

So.

But 90 days is, is, you'd be surprised how fast 90 days go by.

You know, it's like, oh yeah, many.

Of our customers are, you know, I need as soon as possible and we complete it and then they're not ready for the site.

90 Days, you know, goes, absolutely goes, goes fast.

Yeah, it goes fast.

Jonathan, what.

Who would you say is the most perfect customer for a clever, tiny home.

I think we have many wonderful customers.

I'm not sure I can say there's one single perfect, perfect customer.

We make different models for different demographics, different.

Different life situations.

You know, we, we have our.

Yeah, so I wouldn't, I don't like.

I don't think I can answer that.

I.

We have.

We've been fortunate to have lots of lovely customers, many of them very different in different stages of life.

But.

And I think they're all getting a lot of benefit from our home.

Yeah, well, you could always say that all your customers are perfect.

I'm not sure I'd say that.

I'm not sure I'd say that, but.

Well, at least it's right.

No, really, you know, I think probably the most perfect customer, not just for buying your homes, but in any construction phase or anything is, is the informed customer.

And those who know have done their research on what they want, possibly how things are built and become a.

It becomes a working knowledge for when you come in.

You could talk to you intelligently because you have a working idea of what goes into building them.

That's why I try always educate the homeowner when we do remodels because, you know, I always try and keep them up to date on everything and explain the procedure, what goes into it, why I need to do certain things the way I need to do them to move the project along.

So.

Yeah, and the.

The most perfect customer is an informed customer.

So I think I.

That's the goal.

That's really well said and I agree, and not to promote our stuff, but we have put out hundreds of.

Well, not hundreds, put out tens of hours of YouTube content that goes into details on how we build our homes.

And we strongly encourage customers to watch it.

Whether you're buying from us or not.

I mean, a lot of what we try to put out is, is more for people to decide whether what we're doing is right for them or not.

But we have.

You can look it up.

It's called the Clever Quality series.

You know, we have videos and this is.

The videos are designed for non trade professionals, non construction professionals, but on, you know, framing and electrical and plumbing and siding and roofing and just talking about the decisions we've made in our home and what else is out there and hopefully helping our customers understand what's possible.

So.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

It's so very important.

Jonathan, why don't you tell our listeners how they can contact you so they can find out more about all the Great tiny homes you build.

Yeah, it's clevertinyhomes.com and clevertinyhomes on YouTube and clevertinyhomes on Instagram and Facebook.

So check out us, you know, through any of those, any of those channels on our website.

You can email, you've got an email, we've got a phone number.

Give us a ring.

And our team is happy to answer your questions and help you do that.

But certainly for listeners out there that are looking to understand the space, as you talked about trying to go deeper, we, we definitely, we want to, as you said, we want to sell to customers who are informed.

And check out our YouTube, there's a lot of great content there and other YouTubes to help understand this.

Right.

I want to thank all our listeners for listening to Boxcar Universe.

Remember, we are your source and cutting edge information on remodeling, renovating your home, container homes, tiny homes, container pools.

Make sure you know, if you're living in Arizona, like it's 114 degrees today, more people jump in pools as the sun goes down than I've seen in any part of the country I've seen.

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You could always email me if you have any questions at all regarding any of the topics on the show or anything that you would like to share.

Steve, at boxcaruniverse.com and always remember, Boxcar Universe could be heard weekly on any podcast player.

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