160: Dear Filipino American Women, Here’s What To Talk About In Therapy

Also available on YouTube: https://youtu.be/GEmW8yHoaJ4

And just like that… they’re back! Join Jen & Nani as they breathe new life into TFAW Project with a hearty discussion on what to talk about in therapy for Filipino American women. In this panel discussion, Filipina therapists Marjory Ware and Roanne de-Guia Samuels weigh in on common misconceptions people have about going to therapy, how to find a therapist who is aligned with you, different types of therapy to try, and popular topics and goals to center in your therapy sessions. Don’t forget to check out our bonus episode, Therapy Writing Prompts for Filipino American Women (episode 161), to put these concepts and ideas into practice!

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ABOUT US: Welcome to The Filipino American Woman (TFAW) Project, a podcast that strengthens Filipino voices one conversation at a time through all things life, culture and personal development. Hosted by Jen Amos and Nani Dominguez-Smith. This show is brought to you by our family at THENEWFILIPINA.COM. Join the conversation today!

UPCOMING BOOK: Special thanks to the Bulosan Center for Filipino Studies at UC Davis for the opportunity to present our academic paper, Pinay Podcasters: Building a Self-Sustaining Community Through Storytelling, Collective Healing & Learning, and Collaboration. The initial draft is now available! Read more at http://pinaypodcasters.com/

RECOGNITION: In December 2020 and December 2021, we received an Honorable Mention at the Asian American Podcaster's Golden Crane Podcast Awards. August 2020, Jen Amos participated as a speaker on behalf of TFAW Project for PodFest Global, which now holds the GUINNESS WORLD RECORDS™ title for Largest Attendance for a Virtual Podcasting Conference in One Week. May 2020, we were recognized as “Amplifying Asian Women Voices” on Spotify during AAPI Heritage Month.

We've also been featured in Realtime Community Oakland, Mochi Magazine, Ossa Collective, SUPERBANDS, Chopsticks Alley, FoundHer by Entrepinayship, Spotify, PodFest Expo, Philippine American Foundation for Charities, When In Manila, You Are Collect;ve, San Diego Union Tribune, NBC 7 San Diego, and much more! Read more at: https://linktr.ee/tfawproject.featured

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Learn more about our co-hosts Jen at https://linktr.ee/thejenamos and Nani at https://notesbynani.com/

Have something to share? Email Jen at jen@tfawproject.com or Nani at nani@tfawproject.com

Unknown Speaker

Music.

Nani Dominguez

Welcome to the Filipino American woman project, a podcast that strengthens Filipino voices one conversation at a time through all things life, culture and personal development. We're your hosts, Jen Amos and Nonny Dominguez Smith, and this episode is brought to you by our family on the new filipina.com All right, let's go ahead and get into today's conversation. You

Jen Amos

all right, hello, hello, is this thing there? Hello, we're back. In

Nani Dominguez

case anyone is still around.

Marjory

Yes,

Nani Dominguez

Jen Amos

Yeah. I mean first and foremost, welcome back, everyone is it. Does anyone still subscribe to our show? For one, if you have subscribed to our show, let us know. We we genuinely want to hear from you. We have new call to actions for the show. We have a new intro, new outro, so you'll know exactly how to get a hold of us. And you know, just like what nanny has said, even though it's been nearly a year since we've recorded, we have just been like, in the best way possible, like, busy with our online community and our app, which is the new filipina.com and so on this platform, we've been having book clubs. We've been having like, threads of conversations and different topics, and behind the scene, like live streams. I mean, we have just been doing so much on this platform, and for some time. When we initially started the platform, it was intended for people who want to, you know, financially support the show, because it does take an investment to make this show possible. That's also part of us being in the off season is really taking time to assess, like, how we're allocating, like, how you all been supporting us, like figuring out what's the best use of of that revenue. Thanks to all of you, and especially to everyone in the new filipino.com And so today, we're really excited because we are now going to be opening up a free space on the new filipino.com for those of you who have found us through social media. And you know, you're just looking for a different space, like you're looking for something different. You're, you know, you kind of get tired every now and then of like scrolling in the feeds. And you're tired of seeing like ads pop up and and most importantly, you want to like, if you're on social media, to find anything about Filipino culture, Filipino American culture, and you don't want to get inundated with everything else that gets thrown your way on there. We are opening up a free space on the new filipino.com so that you can get Tifa project specific, centric content, you know, from us. So we're really, really excited about that. And it's a lot of work, like, it's a it's a lot of work to build that out and to, like, officially, finally, be able to open up our home publicly. We don't take that lightly, and hence, that's why it's it's taken a while. And also because, in addition to building we have been just so engrossed in the community and the conversations we've had. So yeah, it's been busy. Nani, like, even though we've been quote, unquote off season, we've been on call for a lot of this time. So yeah, and we also have lives like we Nani and I. We have full on lives outside of the Tifa project. This is not like our number one priority, you know, but it's still a priority, and we have, we've had to really reassess and have conversations on what it looks like to continue with the show and where. We want to serve and where we want to give our time, and so, I mean, naturally, that's just been community focused because of the new filipino.com but we also recognize that a lot of you found us because of the podcast, and hence, that's why we're here. So any thoughts on that? Nonny, yeah,

Nani Dominguez

I did just have a thought that I think in the last year, what we have been really trying to reflect on and strategize is how to maintain the heart of the Tifa project, which, you know, like this podcast and our surrounding community has evolved with the time. So we were just reflecting on the way that we even found our first, you know, 100 the guests for our first 100 episodes, for example, which was wild, pretty much all through social media and just engaging online with the community, which back then, you know, now that's the way of the world. That's how everyone does things, and that's how content creators have risen up to what they are now. But back when we were doing it five years ago, that was not the way of the world. It was really revolutionary. And we have been really resistant to, I think, falling into a pattern of that just being our normal. And again, we wanted to really preserve what is at the heart of the Tifa project, which is community based work. We've always, always been really focused on highlighting the everyday Filipina. You know, there are other podcasts out there that feature people making names for themselves in the professional space or in the content creation space, or, you know, people that, quote, unquote, have a story to tell. But here we believe that every Filipino, American woman has a story to tell, and no matter what we do, whether it's on the podcast or on the new filipino.com we want to make sure that our platform is reserved for you and your voice. So with that said, I think that our priorities have really shifted, and again, in this last year, we've tried to strategize on how to produce content that's fruitful for you, and that also includes you. You know, it's not just targeted at you, but it includes you and invites you in and and to us that what that means is that we prioritize the community that we're building over creating content for, you know, quote, unquote, a podcast or social media or what have you. So that's just kind of initially what I was thinking about while you were talking, yeah,

Jen Amos

yeah. I think early on, in the early years it was, or at least in the first couple of seasons, it was natural and easy for us to produce a lot of podcast episodes. I mean, at one point, we were releasing an episode every five days, like it was a lot like we pumped out a lot in the first like, couple of months, of you and I hosting together, dialing in,

Nani Dominguez

dialing in from the phone,

Jen Amos

yeah. And I remember it was funny, because I think it was a shout out to Adeline. I remember she said, because she's a therapist, and she said, like, she's like, you know, it's very interesting dialing in, because, as a therapist, I look at body language, nonverbal communication, and I didn't see you guys, like, I remember she mentioned this so clearly, so distinctively, and it stuck with me. And I was like, Yeah, that's a good that's like, a good point, but at that time, like, I needed to not have the face to face, you know, like at that time, I wanted it to feel like intimate phone conversation. That's just who I was at that time. That's what I needed at that time. That's how I found my voice at that time. Yeah, and then, you know, as we went on in upcoming seasons, we started to give our guests the option to be on video or not. So we have, like, a lot of, like, if you go back to our YouTube channel, some videos will be just wavelengths, you know, like you would see on a podcast, or it would actually be occasional videos of guests who were very comfortable on camera. And so it's been really cool that now, at least in this season and moving forward, we do have every intent on being on video so you can actually see us and see our guests. In fact, you're going to be seeing some of our past guests that we first had them dial in. You're going to finally see them on video. And it was crazy because, you know, we'll get to our guests in a little bit, but there was one for was one in particular who I was like. I was like, oh, that's how you look, like, you know, I've seen photos of you, like, but, and I've heard your voice, and, you know, she also had a podcast at that time too. And I just thought, like, Oh, wow. This is your face, like, this is you, you know. And it's just, like, so hilarious to see how far we've come. And, you know, I just, I just always want to whenever I can. I want to express gratitude when it comes to mine. And I really just want to thank you, know, you Nani and in our community for, like, just for whatever reason, this has become a staple in a lot of people's lives, like, especially you and I, it's become a place to explore our vocation and to experiment and to, like, just stay in touch, like, to stay connected with our Filipino heritage. Because in real life, it's not like I'm walking around with a Filipino flag all the time, you know, like it's, it's different in so many ways. And so this community keeps me grounded, and I keep coming to it, because there are people who are like, like, our our members and our family in the new Filipino. Dot com, like, they want to be there, and so it makes me want to be there, and, yeah, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for that, you know, like, I mean, I probably would be, but in, like, a different way, it's more like, it's just so nice to have that accountability and sense of responsibility for a community in which this has become a part of their lifestyle. Like, this is, this is in their back pocket now they can pull up the app and communicate check in with us on the new filipino.com like I'm I'm so grateful and humbled by that. And I just really want to, you know, thank you, Nani, as always, you know, for being part of this journey, and all the offline conversations we've had, and all the ideas that I wanted to explore that didn't work out, but I needed to explore those. So thank you for that. And yeah, just thank you, you know,

Nani Dominguez

yeah, well, thank you for being the at the heart of it, and, you know, being the foundation of it. I think that what you're describing is really this collective, like effort that we've all been putting in over the last year, especially, of course, before that too, but especially over the last year to explore these different avenues of what does the future of the Tifa project look like? And I'm so grateful that we've been able to do that so transparently, and that we've really gained this community of people who are truly invested in us no matter what the direction of the show looks like and and in each other. You know, month after month, everyone continues to show up for book club. They continue to show up in the Christmas corner on the new filipino.com they continue to listen to our episodes of our private podcast, Christmas with Jen and Nani, which, if you haven't heard of it before, is like the R rated version of the Tifa project. So definitely go on the new filipina.com and check that out. But yeah, for now, I think that what we have to share about the future of the Tifa project is what you're about to see in this episode as soon as we get into it, which is our new format of including, again, your voices, not just ours. And for this first episode, we brought back two of our past guests. The topic for the show was what to talk about in therapy, because Jen and I are both avid What do you call it? Therapy junkies, if you will. Yeah,

Jen Amos

we need help.

Nani Dominguez

We need lots of help. And thankfully, we've interviewed a lot of Filipino therapists on the show in the past, and so one way of just being able to reengage with our community, and again, like Jen said, Put these faces to the names that we had these like, you know, old school phone conversations with in the past was to invite them back for a panel discussion on this topic of what to talk about in therapy, because we realized that while we are really well versed in the topic, a lot of Filipino women are still new to it or are still on the fence about it, or still don't fully understand what to expect from therapy and how the process goes. I think a lot of people, not just Filipino women, of course, but a lot of people in general, think about therapy with these, like, unrealistic expectations. Of like, you know, it's like this experience of, like, walking into this ethereal life, and then you're just healed and, and life is good, and, and that's not actually how therapy works, or how it's meant to work. It's not a linear process. It's a very, very convoluted, tangled like wire, if you will, that you have to you know, the therapist is really there as your guide, not as this person who has solutions to all your problems. So I really loved our conversation with Marjorie ware from episode 23 and Roanne viggia Samuels from Episode 34 although I know we've had her on a few episodes, you can listen to her original interview in Episode 34 and they joined us to just talk about some of these questions, common misconceptions that people have going into therapy. What kind of expectations to set for a successful, you know, relationship building process with your therapist, how to even find a therapist? And kind of we talked about accessibility for mental health resources, period when going through like your healthcare provider versus searching for a therapist from, like, a personal referral who might be out of network, and how that really stops up the process for a lot of people who can't afford it, and also what therapists can do to make that more accessible, such as offering like a sliding scale or things of that nature. What else do we talk about? Oh, we talked about how finding a therapist is kind of like dating, or it's a lot like dating, not kind of it's a lot like dating. And you know, you can't just expect the first person that you talk to to be your person. You have to really ask questions. You have to be curious, you have to be observant. You have to know what you value, what's important to you, and. And ask a lot of questions to find out if that therapist is in alignment or not. Because therapists, although they're professionally trained, you know, help, obviously, they're still humans. So you want someone that you can vibe with, essentially. So we talked about, like, specific questions that you should ask a therapist when you're interviewing around and how to kind of combat that shame or guilt that you might feel in, you know, not choosing someone, especially for Filipino, American women, you might feel like the first therapist that you interview, you have to work with them. And that's certainly not the case, and therapists do not take offense to that. So I think it was really helpful to hear that from actual therapists mouths, you know, for me at least. And what else do we talk about? Jen, we talked about the different types of therapy. So, you know, I think the most common that people hear about is like talk therapy, which is obviously very popular and helpful. But there's a lot of different kinds of therapies that you can also explore if you're not someone who is ready to verbally express yourself, or you don't like talking about your past, or you don't like talking in general, there's like EMDR, there's brain spotting, there's Yeah, art therapy. Art therapy, exactly. So there are a lot of different types of therapy that you can explore if you're not a yapper like like us. And we also talked about topics, what to talk about in therapy, specifically for Filipino, American women. So I think that this was really at the heart of why I wanted to cover this topic in general, because if you look back through the past 150 whatever, however many episodes there are on the Tifa project podcast, this is what we're talking about, right? We're talking about what Filipino, American women should be talking about in therapy. And we hear from two actual therapists what some of those topics are, what they commonly hear from a lot of the individuals that they work with, and just little tidbits that they had to offer around those specific topics. And then one thing that we didn't get to because we ran out of time, was examples of goals to set in therapy. So again, just outlining the process of how therapy actually works, and giving some kind of clarity as to, like, what are we doing here? Are we just showing up every Friday and, like, you know, talking about how our week was, or are we actually working towards something? And Jen, I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about that, because out of the two of us, you're the therapy star. Oh my goodness, you made an art that. Therapists? No, no, you have just been the most courageous in seeking out the most help. That's what I would thank you. That's my reframe. You have also been through, you know, a lot of different maybe it was like intentional, maybe it was not intentional, but I feel like in different times of your life, you have sought out therapy from different types of therapists, from different people, to reach specific goals or to overcome specific things in your life. And you know that wasn't all with just one therapist, so I don't know if you want to just give a little bit of your personal insight into some examples that goals of what kind of goals people can set in therapy, yeah, just to have some kind of like direction for the process,

Jen Amos

yeah, no, I think that's a that's a good question. You know, it's crazy, because you just reminded me that my first form of therapy was group therapy with kids. So this goes all this goes all the way back to when I was 10 years old, and when we lost my dad, and we were put into a group therapy, like my mom was put with other widows, and I was put with other kids. And I remember specifically, like, I was definitely an introvert then, and I think today, I'm more of an ambivert, which I'll get to in our upcoming book club, because I'm actually reading a book about introversion right now. But anyway, I just remember how aloof I was in those groups. Like, it wasn't even like sitting in a circle for kids, like, with kids. I mean, imagine, like, having kids sit in a circle, like, aa, like, no, that's not gonna happen. But like, I, you know, they allowed you to, like, play with things and kind of, you know, go around the room and just, I think they're more so observing us, because out of all the kids, from what I recall, I was like in my own corner, I was just kind of playing by myself. And then I remember, at the end of group therapy, my mom came out of it, like, wiping tears off her face, like, I'm sure she just had a whole session with with her group, and she asked me, she was like, oh, so how did you like that? And I said, I think I said I didn't like it. And unfortunately, we didn't go back after that. I think my mom didn't, you know, she didn't want to put us through that person, yeah, and, but I kind of feel bad, because, in a way, it was. Like, Oh, maybe I robbed my not that I knew any better at that time. But like, No, you're literally 10. Yeah, exactly, thank you. And yeah. And I feel like I may had robbed her of her own experience of doing therapy for that, you know, because as a failure, you know, I didn't want to go, and therefore she probably anyway. So that was my first experience. And I mentioned that story because, like, if you don't know what you need therapy for, but you somehow sense it like that's a good enough reason to seek it out. Because, you know, I've been, I've had a number of therapists. I've done different types of therapy, and I've had occasions where I had this one therapist, Nani, where I only had, like, one session with her, and I spent the whole time, okay, I spent the whole time therapizing myself. So what I did was I had a whole list of things I wanted to unload on her. I did it all within like, 40 minutes, and then the last five minutes, her response was, you're fine.

Unknown Speaker

Oh, nice. She's like,

Jen Amos

she's like, you're fine, like, you, you're, you're okay, you're doing a lot better than you realize. But, like, there was a part of me that I was all like, No, I'm not, like, how can you just say that? Like, you get, like, in looking back, I think, I think that maybe I didn't give her the opportunity. I think I wanted to really, you know, come off like, like, I got my, you know, shit together, and I think I didn't open up enough, you know, and then I had, like, other therapists where I kind of just, like showed up, like I was in a different, like, headspace at that time. And then eventually I, like, have the therapist I have today that I've had her for like, three years now, and it's been really cool, like I'm in a place now in our relationship, where I'm really just sharing things that I'm celebrating, because I think I'm like, in the healthiest place and in my life right now, like, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, physically, like all these things. And she actually asked me a second time. Nani, you know this already, like she asked me a second time. So do you still want to continue? And I said to her, and I share all these stories, because I want you all to know that like, like what Nani said earlier, it's not like a linear path. It's not like walking into the light, like it's, it's human, it's human, it's, it's very you know, you're it. There's no right way to do it. It's more about just the desire to do it. And I said, I said to my therapist, I said, well, thank you for saying all the things like, Thank you for, you know, just pointing out my wins and my successes and how far I've come, and thank you for always reminding me how far I've come. The reason why I still want to have you is because what I need to work through is self regulating when it comes to celebrating my wins. I still wherever it comes. I don't even know where it comes from at this point, but there's still somehow in the back of my mind that feels like I'm being too much if I celebrate myself, and I want that mirrored back, like I want, I want people to say that's awesome. Congrats. You know, like somehow there's still a part of me that feels bashful to do that, that feels like I shouldn't do that, you know, that feels like I'm overstepping. I'm taking up too much space, and so that's what I'm navigating now. It's like, hey, as far as I'm concerned, I feel pretty grounded in myself. I think I have pretty good self esteem at this point. But when it comes to like, saying that with conviction, you know, I'm still, like, I need to hear myself say it, and I need people to mirror that back and say, Yes, Jen, like, you're doing great. Like, keep it up, you know. Like, wow, I'm proud of you. Like, I need, I need that, and I need to have my relationships today reflect that back to me. So that's why I told her I still need her around. I said I may be sharing all these like updates with you. But this is actually a good thing, because this is, like, what I consider the next stage of our therapy session is for me to feel proud of how far I've come. Like you pointed out, but now I need to be able to point it out proudly without any bit of guilt or shame or taking up too much space fill in the blank, you know. So, yeah, I share all that to just let you all know that there are so many ways to get into therapy. I think it's like a feeling, or it could be something specific, but hopefully all the things that I've shared at this point give you at least one idea to be like. You know what? I think I should at least entertain it.

Nani Dominguez

Yeah, and I think that how you just kind of wrapped up your experience in therapy in a nutshell, like that gave us several examples of goals that you have set in therapy, you know, like before, when you were 10, starting when you were 10, obviously, the goal was to address this really heavy trauma that you are dealing with as a child and as your family, for your family as a collective. Fast forward to today. Obviously, that's not a goal for you to set in therapy anymore. Because, you know, decades later, and you have done the work, you have worked with several therapists, you've done all kinds of things to process that, and now your your goal that you set in therapy for your therapist who keeps trying to fire, you know, there's no positive reinforcement and. Is still a goal, you know, yeah, so I think that that sheds some really great light into just the range of examples of goals that you can set in therapy. You know, other things that you can do that you might be going through, that therapy can be useful for, is like navigating big life transitions. You know, you're you're getting married, or you're getting divorced, or you have a kid, or there's a death in the family, or, you know, bigger, obvious things like that, or even getting over a breakup, dealing with a toxic work environment, coping with illness, coping with a new diagnosis, navigating career growth, celebrating having help, celebrating your wins, you know, just things like that, or there may be more nuance to goals, like getting to know your inner child. For example, you know you've realized from social media or from blogs or from reading books that that's an important thing to do, but you don't actually know how to do it. That's something that therapist can help you work on, identifying healthier coping mechanisms. You realize that when you're stressed out, you drink like until no end. So you want to know what you could do to develop a healthier coping mechanism that isn't going to cause, you know, setbacks in other areas of your life when inevitably stress comes up. So I think that those are just some of the things that I wanted to also cover in this episode that we didn't have time for, because Nani is a yapper, and like I'm doing now, I was talking a lot. So hope you guys enjoy that listening to me Yap in this episode. And what better way to bring the Tifa project back? Yes,

Jen Amos

yes. And one thing I want to add to that too is, you know, part of us coming back, it's, it's so different than the past season. So traditionally, it'd be Jen and Nani plus a guest. And so now moving forward, because we have such a rich community, and like people, have been so quick to respond when we reach out, you know, to suggest discussing topic topics, like what to talk about in therapy that we want to bring back, like past guests to talk about specific topics. And so moving forward, it'll be, you know, Jen Nani, plus two to three people, plus potential live chat for people who just want to sit in in real time and watch us engage with the panel and engage in that way. So we're definitely bringing more of the community into our conversations. So that being said, thank you in advance for your grace and your understanding as we navigate this new approach to the show. I hope that, you know, in the past, I remember people would say that listening to our show is like listening to their sisters in the living room, you know. I hope that this show now feels like you have more sisters hanging out in the living room, and you get to, like, sit in or eavesdrop or listen from the kitchen or whatever you're doing, you know, and be a part of the conversation. Really feel like you're a part of it. So I'm really excited about that. Nonny, I am like, I thoroughly enjoyed this panel, specifically because it's our first one. And to, you know, see the faces of Marjorie and Rowan, and to even just like, you know, be there with you and watching you like, you know, to address the topics that you wanted to hit. And just like how quickly it was for us to eat up a whole hour because we all had so much to say, it just, it just touches my heart, and it makes me really excited for what's to come with with the Tifa project, the our podcast shows. Specifically, yeah,

Nani Dominguez

me too. So we hope to see you either in our live audience in one of our upcoming recordings on the new filipina.com in our engaging in our community and or as part of one of our future conversations. So yes, let's get into today's episode. Hope you enjoy. Enjoy.

Jen Amos

All right, hey everyone. Oh my gosh. I can't believe I'm saying this. I feel like I used to be so used to saying this all the time, but this is the first time I'm saying this in quite a long time. Hey everyone. Jenny was here. Welcome back to the Filipino American woman project podcast show I am here with my incredible co host. Nani Dominguez, Nani,

Unknown Speaker

welcome back.

Jen Amos

Welcome back to our podcast.

Nani Dominguez

Welcome back. Yay. So happy to be here. Yes,

Jen Amos

yeah, we are excited because we have some past guests on our show. We have Rowan and Marjorie who actually like. Marjorie was like, Oh, gee. Like, I think I think you were like part of I think you were like, Episode 23 or something, I think, from what I last checked, but we're just very excited to bring back past guests. What better way to bring back the show than to bring back past guests? So real quickly. Here Nani, any opening thoughts before we welcome our guests back to the Tifa project.

Nani Dominguez

I guess we'll just introduce the topic that we're talking about today, which is what Filipino American women can talk about in therapy. Which is why we. Have solicited the opinions of these two past guests from the Tifa project archives, because they are two Filipino American therapists that can speak to this topic. So that was, that's the only thing I wanted to insert there. Love it.

Jen Amos

Well, let's go ahead and bring them on. Marjorie, welcome back. I mean, it's been a minute, a minute,

Marjory

you know, yeah, covid and all that, also getting in the way of all of the

Roanne

things. But yes, yeah,

Jen Amos

Marjorie, yes, you were here, like, way back when you had to dial in. So welcome back. Any initial thoughts for being back on the show, like, what, four or five years later,

Marjory

it feels good. This feels so official, and I'm here for it.

Jen Amos

Love it. Love it. Well, welcome, welcome Roanne, welcome back. You've been back on our show a couple of times. I mean, originally with I believe, the Filipino mom cast, and even on our private podcast, the new filipino.com or just Mr. Jenna Nani, private podcast. Welcome back. Any opening thoughts for us?

Roanne

Just happy to be here. It's good to see you guys. Wonderful,

Jen Amos

lovely. And with that said, I'm excited, because, you know, normally in these conversations, I take the lead, and I always will love to take the lead. If you let me like I'll do it. I'm a I'm a chatter mouth. I can talk about anything and all the things. Yeah, so here we go. We're just gonna get into it. I love that. It's like, let's just jump in this deep end. Okay, all right. Well, that being said, welcome Marjorie, welcome Roanne. We're just gonna dive into the topic today. Nani tell us what is the topic and how did this topic come about to begin with? Yeah.

Nani Dominguez

So today, again, we're talking about what Filipino American women can talk about in therapy. And I wanted to talk about this because this has been this kind of ever evolving topic in the Filipino American community that I've seen really grow recently on social media, podcasts, different forms of mainstream media. So I love that it's getting this kind of attention, but I also feel like there's a little bit of a disconnect between how therapy is painted like in society versus what the actual experience looks like. And so I just wanted to highlight that a little bit from the perspective of from a therapy goer, someone who has gone from like being a therapy rookie to a therapy veteran, which is how Jen and I and our private conversations offline have kind of described the journey through therapy and also through the perspective of actual therapists. So from both ends, and I actually did ask our community some of the questions that we're going to talk about today, so we have even more of an added perspective on that front. But first, I want to get into just some common misconceptions that people have in therapy and what kind of newbies can expect, or should expect. And I can say from personal experience, before you start therapy, it's painted as this, like, you know, you're like, walking into this ethereal light. And like, you know, you go into your first session and you have all these breakthroughs, and your life is changed, and suddenly you're like, mentally healthy and healed, and all your problems are solved. And in reality, that's not what therapy is, you know, like a therapist is not there to solve your problems or to give you answers to your problems. They're there to help you guide yourself, essentially to find solutions to your own problems or to cope with your problems. Or, you know, it's this very nuanced experience. So I think the topic of managing expectations as a newbie, going into therapy is something really important to highlight for Filipino, American women specifically. And one thing that I did want to reference is this podcast that I've been listening to by this therapist named, what is his name, Elliot Connie, and he uses, I think it's called solution based therapy. So another thing we'll talk about is like the different the different forms of therapy. And you know, it's not all just talking. You can find, like, different therapists that do different things. And I know at least Rowan, I know you explore different, like, a variety of different types of therapy in your practice, so you can speak to that as well. But this particular podcast that I've been listening to struck me because it's kind of like, like, I've referred it to a couple people, and I'm like, wow, I really like this guy. Like, I really like listening to his conversations with his clients, because he essentially just keeps asking them the same questions over and over and over again. And some people that I've referred the podcast to to listen to, they're like, I don't get it. Like, he just keeps saying the same thing. He's not really like helping he's not providing answers. And I'm like, That's exactly the misconception that I wanted to talk about. Is, you know, the fact that by asking you repetitively the same questions in every session, over and over and over again, he's training you how to, like, therapize your. Self in a way. So yeah, anyway, let's go ahead and get into the panel. First, I want to share two comments from our community when I asked this question in the in the polls, which are a good therapist isn't going to solve your problem. They may help you identify coping skills, but they won't solve the problem, and people think they don't need a therapist until something very serious goes wrong. In reality, having an established relationship makes it much easier to handle when bad things happen. So even if life is great, I try to see a therapist once a quarter. And when life is hard, I set up more frequent appointments. So Marjorie, starting with you, what are your kind of thoughts about misconceptions. Or, you know, when you have a new client, how do you manage like, those expectations of like, you're not going to walk away with a breakthrough every single session. Like, what do you kind of tell your clients? Yeah, it

Marjory

actually kind of starts right at the 15 minute phone consultation, the moment someone inquires. So within that 15 minute consultation period, we'll kind of go over some of, like, the logistics, and then I'll ask questions like, What are you here for? And then at the end, say, like, what do you have questions for me? And oftentimes the question is, like, what do I What can I expect in therapy with you. Because I do think, I believe all therapists are so uniquely different from each other, no matter if we're using the same therapies. So I will describe to them what it looks like with me, what it will feel like coming into my office, sitting in the waiting room, and how nerve wracking it's going to be. And then I'm always gonna, like, actually focus on you. And so we'll go over how I would like to start my sessions, which is, you know, find the diagnosis. Because if you use insurance, that's something I'm gonna have to do within the first 53 minutes. And then after that, I like to do a history background. So kind of finding out, you know, your family, what are we here for, and going into the deep end. And oftentimes I'll let them know it's gonna feel fairly boring, and then sometimes it'll struck you, and then I'll find out what you'll need from there, because people have that expectation, and I'll ask them, like, what do you expect to get out of therapy, and what do you want? And so that seems to, like, give them idea of how I'm going to navigate their work with me.

Nani Dominguez

Very nice. Yeah. Thank you, Roanne, what about you?

Roanne

For me, it's similar. It starts with the console. So we're our listeners. They're not aware. Most therapists give a free consultation to see if we're a good match. And then on my I think it's really crucial for even the first actual session that the expectation is set forth. I actually use a metaphor I will share a little bit. I always bring a plant, and I'd say your garden, you are the gardener for your garden. So you're the master gardener who I love. Garden is your life, and it's not as if all of your garden, parts of your garden, isn't thriving, but maybe there are parts of your garden that isn't, and I understand that you've done the best that you can, because most people before are reaching out to a therapist might have like done something. They've done the best that they could. And I say the reason you're reaching out to me is because I'm also a gardener, but I'm not the Master Gardener of your garden. I just so happen to have seen many other garden in our work together, we're going to get our hands dirty, so sometimes we excavate whatever's just comfortable for you, when I leave, you are the master gardener. It is your responsibility to water the plants, make sure, to check on the plants. So I'm very metaphorical that, you know, like I use a lot of stories, so that's one way that I set the expectation. And I asked them, Does that resonate with you? I've never had anyone said no, but they have. They So, yeah, just just kind of piggybacking on the expectation. So that's how I can explain. Yeah, I

Nani Dominguez

love all the metaphors, and I also love that you mentioned that it doesn't stop like your therapy, your experience in therapy doesn't stop in our sessions, like it's meant for you to carry into your daily life and actually apply. And like you said, I'm more of an advising gardener, rather than I'm coming into your garden to tend to your plants for you, I'm just advising you, you know what you can do in these areas where your garden, where you want your garden to grow. So I think that using those analogies is also really helpful, especially in the beginning, and helping to, like, manage those expectations, what's realistic versus what's idealistic. And how do we kind of calibrate in the beginning so that. We're not setting ourselves up for disappointment, or we're not finding ourselves in these sessions saying, like, what are we really doing here? You know, I think that that's a really good way to paint the picture. And I think another maybe not misconception, but expectations that women can set for themselves going into therapy is also around that piece of, how am I going to prepare for these sessions? How am I going to make the most of these sessions? How am I going to like what is aftercare after my therapy sessions look like, and how do I apply what I'm learning, you know, in the day to day, because Marjorie, like you mentioned, it's very nerve wracking to be in therapy, and especially in the beginning, because you don't know what to expect, and you don't know what's going to come up. And I think for me, at least there's a little bit of in the beginning, when I first started therapy, there is a little bit of cognitive dissonance, like, what you're saying to me and what I'm learning makes sense in theory, but in practice, it's like harder to actually employ. And so what are some things that I can do and like, personally, for me, I've learned that it really helps to, like, mentally and emotionally prepare yourself beforehand for these conversations and give yourself a little bit of space afterwards to maybe journal or write down things that you talked about just and you don't forget. Or, you know, to, like, stick a pin in it so it stays at the top of your mind. Otherwise, you know, when you treat therapy like it's more of just a lunch meeting that you're fitting into your schedule or something, then you know, things tend to go in one ear and out the other. Are there any tips that that you would give to your clients, either in the beginning or during your sessions to, like, advise them how to prepare, or do you kind of let them figure that out on their own. Marjorie, start with you again.

Marjory

I'm very much into the practice of like, I would like to witness you figure this out. One most likely because we're already building that skill that you're not honing into or paying attention to to begin with, right? Like, the reason why you came here is because, for some reason, things are feeling out of sorts, and just having to, like, navigate, or watch you navigate, the feelings you get pre, during and post therapy is already the information that would probably be working off of, because those are going to be skills that you're naturally good at. And so it's already within that self, you using skills that probably are not getting used yet. And so it's really fun for me, because I'm that kind of therapist that would notice things, but and I'm just be like, I'm noticing that, um, in order for you to like come into therapy, you're doing all of these skills. Is that something you like to use in other scenarios in your life, when you're in conflict or when you're in stressful situations? And is that something you like? If not, what would you like to tweak? And so it's really cool. So I kind of use a lot of things as information and give it back and be like, what

Unknown Speaker

are you gonna do with it?

Unknown Speaker

Yeah,

Nani Dominguez

I like that. Put the basketball in their court. They're

Marjory

the one who's doing it. You're the master. Like, Rowan said,

Unknown Speaker

There you go. I'm

Marjory

just gonna Yeah, like, do we want to switch out the tools? What do you want to do? Very

Nani Dominguez

nice. Okay, and Rowan, how about you?

Roanne

Yeah, I think you know, just piggybacking on the most important metaphor is the client's central metaphor. If we're using their language so very similar with Marjorie, if whatever they're using, I will use that. I would run with that as far as preparing for therapy. I actually like some structure, but the structure is inside me, the client does actually not know. In fact, I prefer them to come as they are, even when their stress is a good place for me to actually help support them, to either self regulate, to self suit, or I co regulate with them. So no better place, better place to practice than with the therapist in the moment you are but I in my head, I have a little bit of structure i But the agenda, I follow the lead. But sometimes science is almost like they're in a dark room, and if you ask them questions, questions are like flashlight and they, if it's dark, they might not be able to tell you anything. So for some people, initially, the the therapist is, is kind of lending a light. So when you start asking question, as if we are in a dark closet, they'll be able to see more and then post questions. Sometimes there's so much in the dark. It's kind of hard. You ask them, they don't, may not have the response just yet,

Nani Dominguez

yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that. It's kind of like when you go to the doctor when you're sick, so that the doctor can actually experience your symptoms and, like, make a more targeted. You know. Diagnosis, or whatever you call it, as to what's wrong with you, versus going to the doctor after you've healed from whatever you know, if you had a cold or covid, then after the fact, it's harder for them to say what it was and what it wasn't, because they didn't get to experience it with you. So I like that you say, you know, come as you are, and if there's something unraveling in that current moment, then, you know, that's even better. And if not, then we can shine the flashlight to see, you know, where we can illuminate some things.

Jen Amos

Yeah, what I sort of, what comes to mind to me, I really like that analogy Ruane, where it's like, you turn a flashlight on and they're able to see themselves better in the darkness. What came to mind for me, when both of you were talking about like, Hey, I noticed this. Or, hey, what about this? Is, I feel like a therapist is serving as a mirror, like to the client, where, like a client cannot really see their actions. They can't see their mannerisms. They can't see like, you know, how they're reacting to the world, but it sounds to me that's what a therapist does. Is, is help help them see like, help them notify or help them notice, like, their their actions or behaviors, that maybe they themselves don't even realize they're acting out, unless you point it out, you know. And like, when I think about my therapist, for example, lately, a lot of my experience with her is just sharing all these like, positive experiences, like all these good things that are happening my life and and then she'll say, Hey, do you remember when this was not happening? Like, do you remember when you were going through a hard time? And it reminds me of how far I've come, or how much I've grown from a certain issue, but I wouldn't have known that hadn't the therapist brought it to my attention. So that's what I'm hearing from both of you, and my end is it's kind of like you're serving as a mirror effect to your clients.

Roanne

Totally, totally. I used that metaphor too. You know, like sometimes we are so close to the mirror, and when you're close to the mirror, it's really rarely that we could completely see ourselves holistically. And so in therapy, hope, hoping, in self awareness, we're moving further. And now we could see our torso, now we could see our knees and all the way down to our feet, which is the point of the mirror. Thank you, Jack, you're a genius.

Jen Amos

It's like, it's like, you're helping us practice self awareness. Is really it? It's like, how can we self regulate? How can we spot our negative behaviors that cause us to self sabotage, or whatever the case. But just being able to give like to like you said, to pull away the mirror for ourselves like you help us gently do that, and then we're able to do that ourselves. Like I feel like, that's what therapy does, is it teaches us how to as Dr Abby says, shout out to Dr Abby, like having a metacognition moment and having a moment to pull back and be like and like, kind of like, think about your thoughts that you're having, or like, experience or observe your feelings as you feel them, as opposed to just like reacting to your feelings. Yeah,

Nani Dominguez

what I'm hearing like, how I would sum up, what you're trying to say, is finding identifying blind spots. You know, like Rohan said, when you're too close to the mirror, you can't see your knees or your feet or your torso, and so it's helpful to have, you know, some outside perspective from a specifically, you know, trained professional who can help you identify those blind spots and and zoom out a little bit on your experience. And I think that in order to do that, you also have to feel aligned with your therapist. You have to find, you know, I've heard often on social media and stuff that finding a therapist is like dating. You know, you have to, like, experiment a little, and you have to interview people, and you have to try people out, and you have to have awkward conversations. And, you know, shopping for a therapist, I think, is a really, really important topic to cover also, because I think that's where a lot of people, not just Filipino, American women, but in general, people get hung up because it's so hard to find a therapist, you know, from having a personal referral, but maybe that person isn't covered by your insurance. And you know, if money is an issue, then that right there is enough to stop you from even seeking it out. Someone in our community actually gave that answer, which I'll read later. But basically, I think the way that most people are introduced to therapy or where they cross the line, from saying like, Oh, that's not for me to oh, I want to try it is because they've heard someone they personally know go through the experience, and they want to experience it too, right? But then there becomes the issue of accessibility. And are you in my network? Do you offer a sliding scale? You know, how, how accessible is it to access this referral, and if it's not, then going through your insurance, even, you know, you have to jump through hoops to do that and to even get a referral to find a provider, and in network provider, and then you have to go through the process of, like, interviewing people, because you don't have a personal referral, right? So it's kind of this, like, at least right now, at this point in time, it's this really convoluted, like, again, it feels like you're in a circus, having to, like, jump through all these. Hoops and like, do all these obstacle courses, just to even find someone to talk to, and then when you do, you may or may not feel aligned with that person. So what is, you know, from a therapist perspective, what are your experiences or thoughts on? I'm sure a lot of people find you guys through personal referrals, you know, but in getting aligned with a client, like, what is it that you're looking for, or what is it that you would want your potential clients to come to you and say, you know, how are we aligned? If the stars align with insurance and money and all the logistical things.

Marjory

For me, I kind of my whole website and advertising is literally centered on the clients I would like to see. So anyone who resonates with what I've written is almost always a client I would like to see. So that kind of makes it easier. So the more niche I get the easier it is for me

Nani Dominguez

to immediately

Marjory

enjoy who's inquiring for me to be their therapist. And so it becomes this sort of easier 15 minute slash, where, like, I already know what you're coming to me for because you read on my website and you resonated with it. Great,

Nani Dominguez

beautiful. I love that. And Rowan, I assume that your answer will be similar, because I think what Marjorie is speaking to is this idea of, like, personal branding. And for a therapist, that's super important, because this is such a personal experience. You know, it's such an intimate experience, and you do especially for Filipino American women who so much of our like the common problems that up in our lives, or archetypes that are placed on us in society, like come from our cultural conditioning, and I mean, just from personally knowing you, Rowan, I can also say like your your personal brand is very strong, and That must attract, you know a niche clientele as well, like Marjorie was saying. Would you say that's true?

Roanne

Yes, I'm, I'm. I keep echoing the genius of Marjorie, but I'm very also a niche. Just in my blog, I have 85 articles that I've written, aside from other ones, I have a podcast. It's called the Pinay love language podcast. So when people listen and they consult with me, it's almost like they've already heard me. And in fact, this is the interesting part. Maybe Marjorie could relate to this when they're set to seeing me and I'm the first therapist I I would tell them, shout out to Tara pinay.com which is a directory for Filipino healers, not just psychotherapy. So I would tell them, You know what? I know you're set on me, but since this is your first time consulting, I said it's like buying a home if you see the first home and you so love it. I swear to you, when you've seen the third and you come back to the first, you love the first even more so I would tell them that, and I have no pressure on kind of selling, because for me, it's not just a match that they're seeking me. I'm also seeking a match because it's an energy exchange, and it's such an intimate relationship. I remember people I've seen like 10 years ago, you know, just because I keep really notes. So it's very sacred. Also for me, my energy so like an energy signature that I'm exchanging, not just money, you know. So, so, yeah, it's good for therapists who are niche. They have like, like Marjorie our website, if not, you know, during your interview, make sure that you ask questions like, Who are the clients that you are very alive. You feel very alive serving. So then you get the feel of the therapist, yeah, just who are the most Who do you think are the most successful clients you know? Like, or, what do you do for self healing? It's a good question to pose, then you get the philosophical, you know, standpoint of your therapist. So those are just examples.

Nani Dominguez

Marjorie, did you have something to add to that? Well,

Marjory

I was just gonna say that's so real. One of the questions I always ask when they ask my clients to or like inquiries to if I'm their first one ever, and that's their first time doing therapy. I very much lean into like it has to feel good when you talk to us like it just has to feel good, and your lives cannot

Nani Dominguez

be off, because

Unknown Speaker

if it is

Marjory

that sucks for you, that sucks for us,

Nani Dominguez

it's just yeah, it's

Marjory

because it's such a relationship. It's not like you're going to force yourself to date this person because they're the only one available. You

Nani Dominguez

know, right, right? No, I love that. You both brought that up because the next thing I wanted to get your thoughts on are, what are some questions to actually ask therapists when you're interviewing for one, or when you're shopping for a therapist and. And how do you kind of ensure that alignment? And I think over time, for me, what I've learned is, and what I've heard from our Community Polls, is it's important how the therapist identifies. So I think the fact that you're both personal branding is very strong. Like, I'm a Filipino American woman who deals with Filipino American women, I think that's really important to like outwardly, whether it's by podcast or blog or your website or word of mouth. It's important for potential clients coming in to know how you identify like, what your identity is, where you stand on social issues, the types of therapy that you use, and what is kind of your personal tie to your area of expertise. So, for example, if you special, I'm not saying either of you do, but if a therapist specializes in child psychology, and you're someone looking shopping for a child psychologist, you want to know, Do you have kids like, what is your what is your personal tie to child psychology? And, you know, I think that will give someone a good idea of, well, first of all, it allows your potential clients to get to know you better, and maybe, like, let their guard down a little bit, because then they can say, Oh, we do have this lived experience. We both have kids, and we're both interested in learning or talking about, you know, behavioral issues, or whatever the topic may be. So what is, what are some questions that you have either been asked that you're like, Oh, this is a good question for someone to get to know me and to determine whether or not we're aligned. Or what are some questions that you would recommend, like a friend or family member shopping for a therapist to ask that kind of speaks to any of those topics.

Marjory

Do you have any favor when I'm

Roanne

on the note for you know, like, if it's important for you that your therapist has kids, then you should post that question to your therapist. I always am wondering, what is the therapist take on disease and healing, what? What's their concept? I think that's for me, if I'm shopping for a therapist, I'd like to know I've been asked, like, Do you have kids? Do I Well, am I an immigrant? Like, what's my you know, am I was I was born here? Do I speak the language? And I think really, my my presence online. I have even YouTube videos now that I do weekly and I could refer people to get to know me more so to see if the way I speak, my cadence resonates with them or not. So I would hate for them to also, you know, waste the time, but, but there I I've already created some so that they could see if we align. So those are some of the question I think I mentioned before. Like, you know, you could ask your How long have you been a therapist, you know, and especially when you are doing couples therapy, how many couples do you see in a week? Is crucial, you know, because some don't have a lot of practice, and it's a special I think they're showing that types of therapy. I wonder what Marjorie thinks about it. But couples therapy, some people don't know. It's like, Oh, okay. Well, sure, you sure? I do couples, but couples is a different population to you need practice. So ask your therapist. How many couples do you see? You know? So just some thoughts around questions. What do you think Marjorie,

Speaker 1

yes to all of that. When it comes to the question piece,

Marjory

I get so nervous as the therapist, so I'm currently in that set. That's why I was like, oh, Roanne, you go first one, because it immediately puts me in a performance state, which is my own thing to deal with, because, you know, I'm human too, and and I also want to somehow, you know, please you in my answers. So I always have to take a deep breath and be like, it's it's fine. These

Unknown Speaker

are later pitch go

Marjory

like that. But then I'm like, these are important things for you to know, and I will own that. And so when it comes to questions, I sort of see it more again, like, okay, if I'm working with you, I'm noticing that those, these things are important for you. So I'm kind of already gathering or information that you like that there's anxiety living within you that needs to know these things to feel safe. And so I'll probably be going in that route. And so my work often is like, then focusing of like, what's actually gonna like, relax and CO regulate with you with these questions. So that's where I'm coming from. So when I asked a therapist to be my therapist, since I already know what works for me, I'm already like, do you do art therapy? Because talking ain't it for me, you know, it will not work. So, you know, the more pro or like, more master you get in therapy and learning about yourself, the question. Get more and more targeted into what I know works for me, or where I would like to get more challenge in so kind of that stuff, but I will always honor, honestly, any question within the 15 minutes. Of course,

Nani Dominguez

yeah, I like that. You point that out too, like it brings up some anxiety for me to have to answer questions like this, and you know, while it obviously, those questions tell you what's important to that person and kind of will guide, help you guide the experience as the therapist, as to like, Okay, I know they care a lot about, you know, their XYZ identity, part of their identity, or about this particular social issue, or, you know, their kids, again, like Roanne said, they're having issues in their family or in their relationship. So obviously, I don't want to ask marriage advice from someone who's not married. You know what? I mean? It tells you a lot about where they stand. And at the same time, you're human too, you know? And I think that's also important. Again, therapy is not like walking into this ethereal light where everything is just healed and fixed and solved. It's, you know, like talking to a friend and getting like having an advisor, a gardener advisor, as Roland would say. So I like that. You also point that out, like we're human too, and that goes back into managing expectations of what to expect in therapy. So thank you for that. Yeah, Jen, I'm curious if you had any thoughts to add on this, because I know you are what I've been calling a therapy veteran, so you've had lots of experience in like bouncing around therapists and talking to different people and asking different questions. And from what you've shared with me, I feel like you are someone who is at a point in your therapy journey, like you're very comfortable, you have no shame about asking whatever questions you want to know, and you know like you can quickly get to that come to that conclusion of whether or not you feel aligned with someone. Yeah.

Jen Amos

Marjory

Okay, so the difference between therapy and psychiatry primarily is that psychiatrists can provide medication. They're doctors, medical doctors. They're doing that aspect, and originally, that's where it's came from. They would do the talk therapy whilst also providing medication and navigating that parts of them. But I'm noticing some trends where psychiatry is like, you come in for 15 minutes, give me a little rundown. Let's go ahead and refill your meds and tell me all the symptoms and how it's affecting you. And then there's like my therapy, talk therapy that would probably be more, where I'm just a marriage and family counsel therapist, and so I see couples mostly, and then a lot of Filipinos.

Jen Amos

I love that family and Filipinos personal brand,

Unknown Speaker

yeah, yeah.

Jen Amos

So I think, I think that's like, a good, a good, like, general overview, and Rowan, I'll definitely ask you to hop, you know, piggyback here in a second. But I do want to. Ask the next question too, because, because we're talking about, like, Hey, you got to find the right therapist. It's going to be like dating, and you got to find the one. You got to assert yourself. You got to, like, articulate what you're looking for. And then another question that Steph asks here is, well, how should someone expect to manage their relationship with their therapist on a personal and emotional level? For me, for example, I've gotten deep in the weeds of my therapist, but then sometimes the transition from deep chats to ending with payment and scheduling is a bit jarring. So talk a little bit about that, Marjorie, and then we'll turn it over to Ron. And I know you got to get going. Yes,

Roanne

one,

Marjory

let me do that as your therapist. I think that's one of my responsibilities. Is like navigating those parts and and talking about our relationship as well. So sometimes I'll bring that in. And then when it comes to like, the jarring pieces that actually happens to me on our first session where I'm talking about the logistics of therapy. So when it comes to like scheduling and payments, I'll let them know that it's in my system already. You don't have to know about it. I will contact you if there's a decline card or something is expired, and I'll email you for those so that will be later. And then, when it comes to scheduling, I always do either it's going to be already a set weekly session that we're meeting or every other week or once a month, and so oftentimes that when we end our session, you get to either walk away in all your fields or, you know, feeling fairly good. So I like to do sort of like the housekeeping stuff.

Jen Amos

Yeah, love that. Well, thank you, Marjorie, I know you have to hop off here. I don't know if this link will work right away. I'll definitely do a follow up email. But thank you. Thank you for your time. We obviously Thank you.

Unknown Speaker

It was so good to see you. Good to see

Jen Amos

you. Helped answer your questions. Bye. Audrey, cool and stuff. Says, Thank you. Okay, all right. Rowan, is there anything else you wanted to add on top of, like, the different types of therapy, and then just this last topic, I

Roanne

just want to add that it is the therapist should be an expert with setting healthy boundaries without, you know, the word boundary. I prefer, like you think about boundaries almost like a wall. I like it to be a flowery border. It's meant to not keep people outside, but to choose the one that's coming in, you know, so the therapist should, you should feel that like, like, it shouldn't be. I sometimes see therapists, and they have their own Facebook and depending on the therapist, sometimes they're really edgy when it comes to like, setting boundaries. You know, from a Western perspective, their boundaries are practiced inwardly, whether the therapist is doing therapy, but they practice that in their own lives. So becomes natural. So let the therapist do that. And if you feel like you're obligated, or like, if you need to change therapists and you feel bad, you shouldn't feel bad. You know, like, like, there's something off with, maybe the boundary. I shouldn't say you shouldn't, but if you share that with your therapist, it is likely that the therapists have good boundaries. Would say they will do what's best for the diet, you know? So I just that's just kind of when I what I want to say about that, it's the therapist. Those things that I think Steph just mentioned should be on the the end of the therapist to make sure that squared away? Yeah.

Jen Amos

That reminds me of my my friend, Kim Nani. You remember Kim? And when it when we would catch up, yeah, when we would catch up, right at the hour, she, she'll say, and this is not even therapy. This is just her being my friend. So right at the hour. She's, she's like, so when do you want to do this again? Like, that's what she says. Like, and Roan, she is a therapist. So like, when she says, I'm like, I respect that. Like, I love that. She's like, so when do you want to do this again? Let's put it on the calendar, and just the professionalism, but also, like, the ease, like how smooth she is, and just bringing that up. So to me, it sounds like, like you said it's, it's on the therapist to, like, have that smooth transition. So thank you for elaborating on that. Yeah,

Nani Dominguez

thank you. And I also want to go back to something that Marjorie mentioned a couple minutes ago, which was the topic of different types of therapy. So Roanne, I know in your practice, you also implement things like that, different types of like interactive activities, or, I don't know what you call them, forms of therapy, other than just talking. So I had talked earlier about that podcast that I listened to. It's called Family Therapy podcast, and he specializes in, is it called solution based therapy focus,

Roanne

or solution focus,

Nani Dominguez

okay, yeah, I don't know. I could be making that up. I just know it started with solution. And then there's CBT, which is cognitive behavioral therapy, which is, yeah, like the main regular, just talk therapy, I think, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. Um. But then there are other types of therapy. Actually, you mentioned therapy, which I went to one of their events in San Francisco a couple months ago, and listened to a panel of Pinay therapists talking about the different types of therapy that they offer. And they were talking about all kinds of things, like, is it EMDR or edmr, the rapid eye movement thing and brain spotting. Like, I don't know anything about those kinds of therapy. So can you speak a little bit to to things like that? And actually, Steph, when I pulled our community, Steph had mentioned something called minimal somatic experience, which I've never heard of either. So yeah, if you want to just give a little overview of like, Sure, organize my thoughts there. Yes.

Roanne

EMDR is processing traumatic or very stressful memories by use of bilateral, either looking at something. It could be sounds, it could be tapping. The point of that, the way I explain to people is it's like massaging both hemisphere of the brain when we are in a trauma state or stressful. It's almost like we're stuck part of our brain and and when you are doing some type of bilateral when while you are having this memory, it introduces a novelty to that memory. So that's EMDR. Brain spot is very similar, but, you know, I'm not an expert with brain spotting, but it's also utilizing eye movements. I do something similar, but I am not trained in brain spotting. Cognitive behavioral therapy, if you were schooled, if a therapist is schooled in the United States, unless you just went to a specific school studying about a particular modality. All of us have some CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. It is what they call evidence based in the West. Remember that our culture here is very linguistic. The CBT is a very linguistic therapy. So it's actually studying or learning about your core beliefs. And if they're not working for you, it's either the therapist might psychoeducate. You might reframe it, you might challenge it. You know, together with the therapist, I, even though I'm I'm trained to do that, I integrate many different therapies, I just believe that the therapist should have a lot of tools in their toolbox. People are getting savvier and that they'll say, oh, I want to EMDR, the problem I find when the therapist is just kind of stiff on their modality, because they've studied it so much or same with the client is that we fit ourselves into the modality, rather than the therapist being creative and using whatever works for the person. So I think that the when I teach other clinician, I teach in the school district, other clinician, I tell them there are no resistant clients, only inflexible therapist, for the therapist to kind of certain things might not be the best fit, and and then I'm learning from the feedback, oh, that that didn't work. And so I'm going to pivot, keep pivoting, until I find the the right fit for the client. So for me, the Western brain likes a step by step. Even therapists in the West like to do EMDR, when, when I'm in trainings, I'm always training, you know, very somatic. Somatic is of the body. I use a lot of somatic practices. I'm also a Clinical Hypnotherapist. I do a lot of things. I'm also I use sand therapy a lot, which is collaging in the sand. Sometimes words are not enough language. Our emotional wounds do not speak fluently in language. Sometimes, sometimes they need voice. So that's helpful when we're talking, but when we're stuck, imagery, you know, movement can get the emotional wound unstuck, and the therapist should have so many tools and studying the client as to what would work for their staff, not to the style of the therapist. You're not we're not leading clients to ourselves, but leading you to you. So for me, sometimes people would just like to talk. That's fine. Sometimes talking is also a defense mechanism. They just want to talk and not to be in their bodies, when, in fact, that might be the most healing for them. So I couldn't have to slowly weave that into the therapy and and I find people sometimes where, like, if I do something kind of weird for them, they like, I would ask them, how is that, because that's therapists do that they're like, Oh, that's so stupid. They don't tell me, watch next week, it'll be stupider. These are, like, staff people who, later on they love that. They kind of and, and I'm not saying everybody who's just one who just wants to talk some people that works for them. So. Everybody's different, but I find that when it's used as a defense, you know, you learn later on, once they're finding themselves that are they're really enjoying other things, because the talking sometimes in your head. I mean, I always tell people, if it's just thought changing your thoughts, don't you think you would have thought your way out of it. But it's not in your sometimes it's not sometimes, that's just my take on that. And I just want to say to our audience every I'm just one type of therapist, and so there's so many different modalities, and to find your best therapist, that's just my take. Yeah, I

Nani Dominguez

appreciate how you integrate all these different modalities, just to kind of try things on for size, if you will, you know, with each client, because the experience of therapy should really be tailored, obviously, to the individual. And so when the therapist is stuck too much in you know their specific training, you know that could result in some blind spots for them being able to serve their clients. So I appreciate that you have this more holistic value when it comes to how you handle your clients. And on the topic of like, cultural alignment, I know that in the past, you have told me that you consider yourself a student of culture, and you've done a lot of reading and studying on different you know, in psychotherapy, like how that resonates in Western culture, and you know how the norms, if you will, have developed in this area, over here and also in Eastern cultures. Can you speak a little bit more about how that comes out, or the differences that you find most effective when dealing specifically with Filipino American women, in general, therapists

Roanne

are always teaching clients to self regulate, to self soothe, because I find in general, Filipinos are co regulators, meaning they really like getting warm from the other person. I aim to co regulate with my clients. It's almost like I lend them my nervous system. So the preparation is cheap for me before entering not that I'm kind of thinking about activity, but my nervous system. As a therapist, Filipinos also speak with their bodies a lot, so I'm very watchful with those things. And in the past year, I actually even more. I feel like I incorporate a lot of the body, but I've actually started touching the body. I even I'm doing touch therapy for some of my clients who live close by, because I am watching and listening, because I'm always a student. I have people like great success with therapy, but Touch, touch is the first sense that develops in utero. And then the first thing that a baby, when a baby's born, you know? And sometimes there are just things that are stuck in our body. And then, so I actually use touch. It's not a massage. She's kind of, it's called neuro affective touch that I'm incorporating it really. So, just going back to the question, rather than focusing on the modality, that's what I'm noticing with I need to be more creative. I have my own what do you call that? Projective cards? I'm using imagery my own cards. I use a lot of like I even sometimes use songs. It really depends I keen on the language that is spoken more fluently by the client. And in general, I'm not saying everybody's like this, but Filipinos are co regulators. They speak with their bodies. And then to the point of Jen, as far as like the voice, one of the main reasons like Filipino women come to therapy, they might not say it in this way when they come in, but later on, realize is kind of to allow their voice to to reclaim their voice. And just because we're very collectivistic, you know what? I finally discovered their voice. Sometimes, when they discover it, they it's almost like a stove. You know how you you have the what do you call those? Those knobs before it was so low, there's no voice. Once they hear their voice, almost like a baby, when you hear they go, now we're cooking, and the burner is like on blast, and the voice almost like they kind of overly and then I find that I need to, we need to learn to kind of regulate in the middle. Once they learn to use their voice, it's almost like they're overly compensating, which I think is part of the process, and then it's just kind of working it out so that we center, it a center as what they deem as center.

Jen Amos

Yeah, I wanted to speak on the whole like movement, like movement in therapy, and you just got me thinking that the voice, the way to speak. It's, it's a muscle, like using your voice, and I say this as a vocalist, it's like you have to, like, warm it up to like you know, to to like you know, to sing. But even just as a regular person, to be able to, like, use your muscles, to use your voice like, I think, like that in a way that is a form of movement in my in my opinion, and so totally, I just love that idea. Because one of the things that we as we come back here on the Tifa project, our slogan is about strengthening Filipino voices one conversation at a time. And I just think it's so fitting that you said that just now. Yeah, I want to go ahead and actually bring on Steph. Steph has been dying to say something. So Steph, do you want to unmute yourself and join the conversation

Speaker 2

higher I am and everyone, sorry. I'm a little sick. Thank you for your input, and I really resonated with the touch therapy. I'm a premature baby, and I've learned in my CBT therapy that premature babies actually are experienced touch therapy by nurses when they're born. So I feel like that's been something that's integrated in my practice since day one. I wanted to ask you, is there anything that is too much for you as a therapist? How do you reclaim some of your energy that you lend to your clients when you have a big experience with them, or ground yourself, or is there just places that you won't go yourself. Thank

Roanne

you, Steph. I hope you feel better. Honestly, I actually don't see a lot of clients. First of all, I homeschool my kids, and I see clients longer than the usual therapist, so usually up to an hour and a half. So first of all, the way I manage my energy is to do that. I don't see a lot of clients, a lot of spacing. I also reboot, and I'm very particular about my I do a lot of creative practice. Says myself. I collage. I might do my own sand therapy if I'm feeling overwhelmed. I do a lot of stretches. So I'm constantly I use my own cultura cards, which is my projective cards, so whatever I'm teaching, all of them I've done, and so I keep inside of my journal I have like I need to be practicing, ideally, like almost every day, but at least four times. So I kind of track that to make sure I regulate my nervous system. So I also wake up very early, so I have a moment of like, I'm reading, I just have quiet time. And of course, I met time, energy and focus, I think, because if you are trying to do something, you might have the time, and if you have the time, if you don't have the focus, you might not still get it done. But if you have the time and the focus, but you don't have the energy, what still have things done, so those are the things that I part of my self care. And honestly, I have younger kids, I laugh a lot. I spend a lot in out and about in nature, and that's very healing for me. So I actually laugh a lot, and I'm goofy a lot. Yeah, I hope I answered your question. Steph,

Unknown Speaker

that was great. Thank you.

Nani Dominguez

Yeah, I love this whole I think what I'm getting from your response is that the process that you take your clients through, you also take yourself through it simultaneously. And you've obviously, over the years, figured out what works for you, how to regulate your own nervous system, how to set those boundaries, like, you know, I'm only going to take on X amount of clients so that I can really give my all to them, instead of just trying to pack my schedule and then feeling overwhelmed, or, you know, whatever might happen. So that's a great answer. And also being proactive. I have worked with Rowan in the past, and one of my favorite things that she taught me is the art therapy journal, which she gives you like prompts. So instead of just like pulling out a notebook and like doodling or whatever, there's an actual prompt for you to do. And that notebook that I created when I was working with you was like something that I hold very dear to me, and it stays in like a special box in my closet and and now that we're talking about it, I'm like, I should do that again. So, you know, I can just speak personally to the way that you kind of proactively manage that experience for the client. And it's lovely to hear that you do the same for yourself, you know, in your free time and the time that you spend outside of those sessions. I think that that's really helpful for people to hear is how therapists therapies themselves.

Roanne

Actually, I've trained my children not to talk to me 30 minutes at least before, so they know mommy's in session. I have doors that are multiple, so I'm really quite I'm really just in my body. I'm just really preparing, yeah, remember system? Yeah,

Nani Dominguez

yeah. I love that. Thank

Roanne

you for sharing that, Nanny. There's no greater rewards for the abyss, you know, than to hear that, to hear that, yeah,

Nani Dominguez

yes. Well, I came away with lots of great takeaways, but that one was just the first that popped into my mind when we were talking. And sorry, Steph, I'm not looking at the chat because I have my notes up here, so I'm sorry if I missed Jen. Feel free to cut in and interrupt me if there's any more questions or comments that I'm just glossing over because I'm not looking sorry.

Jen Amos

Oh, no, you I got you. That's my job. That's my job now, is to do the backstage stuff. But no, I think, I think that is all the that are all the questions so far, stuff. Has been the most engaged in the chat. So thank you. Steph, I want to start wrapping up here in about five to 10 minutes. So Nani, I know you have your list of things, any final things that you want to ask before we wrap up here? Yes. So

Nani Dominguez

let's get into now an hour and a half later, let's get into the meat of the conversation. Sorry, guys, I'm not usually the one steering here. So you want to talk about and Rowan, I think you're the perfect person to ask this, because, again, your personal brand is very strong. You're a Filipino American woman serving Filipino American women. And so when it comes to what Filipino American women can or shouldn't be talking about in therapy, I wanted to get your thoughts on what are some of the most common like topics for people that are like, on the fence about therapy, have never done it before. They're kind of like, I want to try it, but I don't know what to say. I don't know what to share. Some things that we got from our Community Polls are dealing with narcissistic parents, understanding generational trauma and how to heal for the next generation. Adoption, someone shared that, even though I'm adopted by white people, the utang Mala OB is strong, which I know you can speak to because your podcast, Pinoy love languages, covers those Filipino psychological concepts. Specifically, you're very well versed in that. And then finally, family members asking to borrow money, which I interpret, as, you know, the tendency in Filipino families to have a lack of boundaries. So just, I know that that covers a lot already, but if you want to elaborate on any of those, or if there's anything that I miss that you see, you know, surface in your sessions more regularly, yeah,

Roanne

one of the most common would be when women are starting, maybe they're pregnant or thinking about having children, and then they think about how they were parented, and they want to be the best mother that they can be, so they seek out to sort of, you know, break the generational cycle. So that's one. There's many that come because of their anxiety of, you know, feeling guilt when they are not producing enough, when they're resting, they feel the same way. So this kind of ruminating thoughts of not being enough, not doing enough is a common theme. Another one is the feeling of guilt, which is maybe similar when you're not producing enough, and then feeling shame when you're resting and using voice, which is part of setting boundaries. I think, if you are dealing with kind of generational Filipino culture, it will be a plus for your therapist, not just that they're Filipino because they're so but they understand the cultural nuances, because the way the Filipino sets boundaries and is different. Like if you go to a Western trained therapist, they might just say, for example, now everybody does this. Some Filipino therapist might also it's not whether you're Filipino or not, it's the way you have assimilated the Western culture. There's nothing wrong. The goal is to set healthy boundaries. I think it's essential in any relationship. But the way that's set, you know? So someone said, Well, just don't visit your parents. For instance. It does not always work for especially depending how close you are to your Filipino family or culture. So sometimes cultural interpretation. It's not just like we all speak kind of bilingual, right? The Filipino understands the immigrant understands English, but they may use the same word, meaning something very different. So it's not an interpretation. As far as English, we're not interpreting language, we're interpreting culture. So it's in a cultural interpretation, which, that's what I am hoping with the work that I do, the therapist, if you are dealing with family utang nalob and stuff like that. If you are going with a Western definition of utang Lana OB which is the Western culture is more quantifiable, and that's why it makes sense when the Philippine American ask, how much you know, when does this does it ever end? The Filipino immigrant or the ones they're more comfortable, they're not trained in a quantifiable way. I say that to say this, that the therapist should at least have a knowledge in cultural the one says otherwise, even though, if they Filipino, the match is not just because they're Filipino, but they understand the cultural nuances, it might create a little bit more tension. And I like, I mean, there's something about creating relationships, but I did a recent video on YouTube, why? Just creating your relationship doesn't always work. Because what we. Don't heal. Hunt us in different forms of relationship. We cannot run away from it. And at least that's my thought, not that if you have a very abusive mother, I cringe even when people have to go maybe they do need some distance from the Mother, you know. So every case is different. That's what I want to say. You've been here, like your third generation, fourth generation. It really depends. Every Filipino American family is different. But if you find that there's a lot of nuances there, then then look for someone who may understand because the culture interpretation, the American culture is very different from the Filipino culture from the islands. What's what makes it more difficult is we're bilingual. It's as if we understand each other because we're speaking, but it makes it more confusing, compared to research, where Koreans who immigrate, they're more monolingual, monolingual. They need they speak their language, so the young one have to speak, of course, I'm generalizing. This is from research, so they're talking the same language from from speaking their Korean language. But we are proud. No, I know how to speak English, but the meaning is different. There are meta meanings in between, you know, and creates tension because we seemingly speak the same language, right? Like I said, but our love languages are very different. So anyway, digress, yeah,

Nani Dominguez

no, not at all. I think that was actually a great thing to share, because another thing that we didn't didn't come from the Community Polls, but that came up for me is what for what to talk about in therapy is that exactly how to straddle the hyphen, essentially between being Filipino and being American. And for someone like me who is mixed, that is like ever present at all times. And so I think it's really it's really helpful to hear that. And another thing that came up while you were talking is that essentially, all of these topics that we've laid out have to do with family, and this idea of, you know, whether your family is inherently toxic or they're just, you know, the lines are a little blurred, like if you could make a blanket statement or a blanket piece of advice for Filipino American women dealing with bad boundaries with family. What would be, you know, how you mentioned, like, the answer isn't always to just not see your family or to cut someone off, because that doesn't essentially solve the problem. And in most cases, what will happen is whatever the problem is will manifest in other areas of your life, and you'll have to deal with it anyway, like it will hit you down, like, I think is your words. So as a blanket statement, is there some kind of like, what came up for me is the flower analogy, when you were talking about boundaries, how would you make like, a metaphor of,

Unknown Speaker

yeah, of that

Roanne

space has a very different definition in the western culture than in the Filipino culture. So when the love for the Filipino American is when you give them space that's honoring them, you know, when you go to preschool in the it happens too in the Philippines, but they teach you the bubble. So a child, even four years old, is starting to learn how to navigate the American culture with space, enough spacing and the Filipino culture is very different. A child in this race to be part of the family, closeness is very important. So definition of space, that's why when the child, the Filipino, American child, who's maybe an adult or teenager, is wanting space, it's painful for the immigrant. Space closeness means love for the immigrant. We're really more huddled together to just know the difference, to just talk about the difference, can be very healing, because it's not as if it's a personal like they just don't respect my boundaries. It's possible they don't, but they're also conditioned in a certain way. The question is how to navigate that, how we could honor that they might want some closeness, and how they we could show them we also need some spacing, where, where could we meet? But it's important to understand where they're coming from, and they understand where we're coming from. Space means love closest means love to us, and let's talk in that way our love languages are are different. So yeah,

Nani Dominguez

take it a step further back to one of the responses that we got, which was about understanding generational trauma and how to heal for the next generation. And as you mentioned, a lot of what you see in your practice is like new moms or people that are thinking about having kids and they want to reflect on what kind of parent they want to be. How do I know like from personal experience, that those kind of family dynamics and that. Need to what I heard you say just now is like interact with your family like in a communicative way, and also be willing to compromise so that you know you can understand each other better and honor each other better. But for people who have not had the luxury of developing that dynamic with their family as they become parents, what are your thoughts on navigating like codependency, you know, like becoming a really codependent parent.

Roanne

So for me, as we don't, we cannot change our past, and we change our past in our present. I'm always fine tuning my therapy. So I always teach lei like the lay, Hawaiian lay. We want to fine tune our language. So for instance, if you are becoming a mother and you're like, oh, gosh, I hate to be like my mother, your language is going to attract that energy. Is this experience the action that you would take? Are you going to be like your mother? I mean, are you learning about ways, different ways to mother? I is crucial. I think I work a little bit more on the eye, which is imagination. If you are in social media a lot and you hear people like toxic mother, toxic Filipino Mom, your imagination of your mother would would be fortified in that way. So find the way little moments are where you imagine your mother to be good enough. I'm sure there's like a moment, even though and and crystallize on that imagine in a certain way. Because what you could imagine, you could conceive within yourself as a mother. So you're not sometimes people like, ah, they did such terrible things. For me, we cannot change that. But you're, you're changing the way you perceive it for your own sake, not for their sake. So I think that's how I would respond to that. And we have,

Jen Amos

I just want to Roanne, thank you, and shout out to Marjorie, who was here. Obviously this Can we, can we can have a limitless amount of questions. And I think all of this is to say that therapy is important, and if you have these kinds of questions, if you struggle with these things, I think Marjorie and Rowan just did such a great job educating us on not to be so scared to reach out to therapy, or like how to reach out, like, what to ask for, how to advocate for yourself, and understanding like how important it is to find the right therapist, and not just like, you know, settle for one like you don't want to just settle for a partner, like, either right. You want to be able to settle with the right or choose the right therapist that is right for you at that time. So Ruan, thank you so much for joining us. And also to everyone who joined us, you know, Steph, Hannah, Suki, and then again, Marjorie, who can be here with us. And Nani, I just want to give a shout out to you for leading our conversation today. I hope, hope you can let out a big exhale now because you did it. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker

proud of you. Okay,

Nani Dominguez

thank you, yeah, I needed that positive affirmation.

Jen Amos

Yeah, all right, everyone, thank you all so much. Oh everyone, thank you, and we'll talk to all later. Bye for now. You

music. Hey, thanks for listening to the Tifa project with your co hosts, Jen Amos and Nani Dominga Smith. This show was produced by Jen Amos, written by Nani Dominga Smith, and edited by Dennis ragolato, if you enjoy our show and want to join our mission of strengthening Filipino voices, we encourage you to join our family on the new filipina.com All right, we'll see you in the new filipino.com or we'll catch you in the next conversation. Bye for now. You.