In this episode of Barking Mad, Jordan Tyler sits down with Jessica Smidt, Co-Owner and Trainer with Think Positive Pets Training and Behavior Services, alongside two members of the BSM Partners Research Team—Dr. Bradley Quest and Dr. Stephanie Clark. 

We explore how BSM Partners partnered with Jess and other KPA-certified dog training experts to ensure the 65 dogs used in its DCM research were successfully adopted to loving homes once the study concluded.

The conversation covers:

·      The taboo of animal research

·      How socialization and training can make all the difference for dog adoption

·      Opportunities to improve adopter education for all animals

Jessica Smidt, co-owner and trainer at Think Positive Pets Training and Behavior Services, where she shares her love for dogs in the form of dog training, socialization, obedience and behavior consulting. Jess also serves as the Animal Assisted Therapy Program Coordinator for Mayo Clinic, where she has trained, assessed and placed therapy dogs so they can share the healing powers of companionship with patients who need it most.

Tune in to learn more about this partnership, and stay tuned for updates and heartfelt stories from some of the people who adopted these research dogs into their homes, coming soon on www.bsmpartners.net/resources.

Links:

Connect with Jessica Smidt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessica-smidt-0778652a/

Forever Fido Puppy Rescue near Rochester, Minnesota: https://foreverfido.org/

The Family Fido Fear Free Training, Boarding, and Daycare: https://www.thefamilyfido.com/

Jessica Smidt’s published research: https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/Jessica-M-Smidt-2150739261

Show Notes:

00:00 – Behind the Episode

02:08 – Introducing Jessica Smidt, Deb Jones, Dr. Bradley Quest, and Dr. Stephanie Clark

03:03 – Getting to know Jess

03:45 – Researching with Animals: Keeping Welfare Top-of-Mind

05:56 – Breaking Down BSM Partners’ DCM Study (And the Importance of Conducting Dog Research on Dogs)

07:43 – Prepping Research Pups with Their Forever Homes

08:50 – An Expert’s Perspective on Socializing and Training Research Dogs

09:55 – An Exercise in Matchmaking

11:49 – Adopter Education is Crucial

12:44 – A Perfect Placement Rate!

13:17 – A Dog Trainer’s View on Shelter Adoption Challenges

17:09 – The COVID-Era Bell Curve of Dog Adoptions

17:51 – How Researchers Interacted With and Cared for These Research Dogs

19:33 – The High Cost of Dog Ownership (And of Research)

21:55 – No Dog Left Behind

24:28 – Cider, Grandpa, The Kardashian Sisters… Oh My!

26:00 – More on Jess’s Background and Her Own Rescue—Forever Fido Puppy Rescue

28:35 – Conclusion and Farewell

Jordan Tyler: Does the thought of animal research make you squirm? I mean, what kind of life do these animals lead anyway? And where will they end up when they're no longer needed for the research? Are you picturing it? If you are, let me guess. It resembles one of those commercials where Sarah McLachlan is singing “Angel,” and you're looking at sad puppy eyes in slow motion. Hmm. Wait, are you crying? Hey now, hey now, wipe those tears. Today's episode is nothing like that commercial, I promise.

At BSM Partners, we've invested countless time and resources to get to the bottom of DCM, including conducting meticulous scientific research to understand how diet might be implicated in canine health and well-being. A large part of this research, however, is contingent upon the dogs used in these studies.

When we set off on this DCM journey, we didn't just recruit dogs and then cast them aside when we got the results. Instead, we took it upon ourselves to make sure every dog included in this extensive study—which was 65 dogs, by the way—was adopted into a loving home in the end.

To this end, we worked with multiple KPA certified professional dog trainers who used positive reinforcement and other tools to help ensure these research pups would find their forever homes.

So, in today's episode, we wanted to highlight one of the individuals who played a huge role in the training of these dogs, share more about that process, and discuss a sort of taboo when it comes to animals and research.

I'm excited to be joined by Jessica Smidt, co-owner and trainer at Think Positive Pets Training and Behavior Services, where she shares her love for dogs in the form of dog training, socialization, obedience, and behavior consulting. Also mentioned throughout this episode is Deb Jones, a PhD psychologist with more than 25 years of dog training expertise.

We also have a few BSM Partners experts on the call today, including Dr. Bradley Quest, Principal of Veterinary Services, as well as Dr. Stephanie Clark, Board Certified Companion Animal Nutritionist and Assistant Director of Special Services within our Product Innovation Services practice.

Welcome to Barking Mad, a podcast by BSM Partners. I'm your host, Jordan Tyler.

So, Jess. First of all, thank you so much for being here with us today. I'm really looking forward to a super fun and valuable conversation, but first, I want our listeners to get to know you a little bit more. So, I briefly mentioned your work at Mayo Clinic, but would you mind sharing a little bit more about your experience working with research dogs prior to helping us at BSM Partners with our research?

Jessica Smidt: Thank you for having me, by the way. My emphasis has always been on training and behavior, so that is where I tied into this study with the rehabilitation and rehoming of our dogs that were in the study.

Jordan Tyler: Well, you are certainly in good company, as everyone here on this call loves animals. You know, most of us have dogs and cats as pets. I know I do. There's always at least one within petting distance from me. But one of the things we hear a lot from consumers, and even some brands, is you know, “I love animals, and so for that reason, I don't want to consume any products that were created using animal research.”

Dr. Quest, I'll pose this question to you. I'm sure you've heard this many times before. How would you respond to sentiments like this?

Bradley Quest: You know, all products, whether they're, you know, food products, even as far as, you know, looking at the pharmaceutical industry, there always has to be safety and efficacy testing done.

Now it's important to make sure that, you know, we do that with the best welfare in mind, you know, of, of the animals that we're doing with that. If we didn't do that, then that means we would actually be testing products on, you know, pet parents’ dogs, or cats for that matter.

Because I think we all realize that, you know, we have to have food to feed our pets, we have to have, you know, medicines to treat illnesses, and that goes along, you know, for people as well, because a lot of the, uh, you know, the first tier of the product safety and efficacy testing is always, you know, done with different animals, even for human products. I think always keep the welfare and safety of the animals top of mind.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, that's an excellent point. And it's also important to note that all good and sound research must be evaluated by an ethics committee. So there really is a lot that goes into this process to make sure that the animals participating are being cared for properly.

You know, I've seen firsthand that my colleagues at BSM Partners work very, very hard to find the most ethical ways to perform research in every way, including through AAFCO feeding studies. which we also often help companies conduct. Dr. Quest and Dr. Clark, I know both of you have really pioneered the way that we conduct feeding studies since you've joined BSM, and I know you've also seen and read a ton of different research studies.

So, Dr. Clark, I'll go to you first. How does this research from BSM partners compare with research in maybe some other areas?

Stephanie Clark: You know, I think the most important thing to know is, you know, dog research has to be on dogs and out there in publications, they will use, you know, home based dogs or, you know, client owned dogs. And that's great, right? Um, we need that. But for a study that was going to be under a lot of scrutiny as with DCM, we needed to try and control as many factors as possible. And that being the dog's housing, the dogs themselves, genetics, um, how much they were eating, where they were, the, the external factors that you know, were affecting them.

And this was really important because DCM is a multifactorial disease. So, there are some external factors that can play a role. So while it may not be as glamorous as some people would like to think, you know, with BSM, we wanted to have a very highly controlled study, but we didn't want these dogs to have to stay in that setting after the study.

And so that's where we, you know, kind of went back to the drawing board of how do we get these dogs out of research when they're done with this study and how do we get them to a quote unquote normal couch potato dog life where they, you know, don't have to go back in and be recycled to a different study where the results may be vastly different than in our study.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, that's a good point. Thank you for that. So, Jess, coming back to you, you've been able to work with quite a few research dogs now, especially with this study. And I was wondering if you could share a little bit about, you know, how easy it is to adopt a dog that's been used in research.

More specifically though, for dogs who have been used in research their whole lives or through multiple studies. What is it like trying to get them into a forever home, you know, outside of this research setting?

Jessica Smidt: Well, as far as how they adjust, um, I think different facilities have different processes. Um, but how all of these dogs adjusted, I thought was very easy and the success rate was amazing. There was a lot of steps and education that we did to help them acclimate.

I think, you know, if they were plucked out of, you know, the research facility and then, you know, landed in a home, um, without some guidance, it might have been a different outcome, but all of these guys did very well or are doing very well.

Jordan Tyler: That is really wonderful to hear. So, talking, you know, about these dogs that were trained and used in the study, what is your thought process behind the socialization and the training of these dogs? And what are maybe some of the tools that you use to achieve this?

Jessica Smidt: Yeah, so we had big plans, but then obviously COVID put a wrench in those plans, but we wanted to get in there and bring in as many real life objects and sounds and smells to kind of start to desensitize and do some counter-conditioning, so when they started to move into home life, there wasn't a bazillion novel objects and sounds and that type of stuff.

We knew in order for these dogs to be successful because we couldn't bring the real world into the research facility, we needed to have a lot of client education or adopters’ education. So we put together different handouts and curriculum and videos on how to slowly acclimate the dogs into the environment that they were moving to.

Stephanie Clark: You did a pretty rigorous interviewing process, right? Like, if someone liked a dog based on their picture, they didn't just get that dog. You, you actually matched dogs to the appropriate owners.

Jessica Smidt: Yes, absolutely. So that was one thing that we did the very first time that we were there, we did initial baseline behavior assessments on each of the dogs and figured out which ones were the most outgoing that, you know, we could bring in a hat or a kid's toy or play different sounds. And they just continue to play, they continue to receive affection without it showing any signs of stress. Um, versus there were some dogs that were like, whoa, I've never seen a small robot before. This is super scary. Or what's that hat on your head? So, we got an assessment of who was more confident, who was more shy, and then also assessed to how resilient some of them were.

So, then when we started to receive applications, we paired the dogs who would do the best in that environment. Um, for example, Grandpa was one of the dogs, he was probably the most shy. I don't even think while we were there, we really even got him to like solicit attention from us. He was very fearful of everything. Um, so he was one that we actually kind of transitioned to, I want to say like a halfway house. There was a handful that we ended up boarding out in the country at a facility that was close to where Deb and I were. And we continued to work with them to more slowly transition them into the real world. But he would have been one from the very beginning we would have never placed with a family with six kids in a very busy urban environment. So, we were very selective about who we placed where to ensure success once they got there.

Jordan Tyler: I can see how there would be a lot of similarities between dogs that have been in the shelter for a long time, too.

Jessica Smidt: That, you know, and even commercial breeding dogs, they're not used to living in a home like environment. And one thing that I learned from this study was that it's not always so important what happens in the shelter or in the front end. It's owner education and just making sure that you're placing dogs in homes that people understand the dog that they're getting.

A lot of times people have this picture-perfect idea of what their dog is going to be, and then it's really about just making sure that they understand dogs are individuals. And they're going to have personalities, they're going to have likes and dislikes, they're going to have fears, they're going to be excited and getting to know each dog that's in front of you and really educating and supporting the family that gets them.

Jordan Tyler: Well, thanks in part to you and Deb, all 65 dogs used in this study were successfully adopted! And this was even during COVID, when shelters were being emptied due to people already adopting dogs at an accelerated rate. What’s even more impressive is only one of those dogs needed to be rehomed after the fact. Talk about great odds!

We owe a huge thank you to Jess and Deb for a practically perfect placement rate. Jess, from your experience, how does this compare to placement rates in shelters today?

Jessica Smidt: I would say one of the reasons why I started my own rescue or co-founded rescue, um, with my business partner was because I was fostering and actively working with different rescues and different shelters. And that was one thing coming from a trainer or even back to when I was a vet tech, I felt like in the front end, you know, they would do a lot of like home checks and, you know, they'd call their vet, they do background checks. They put all of this work into making sure they have this picture-perfect family when in reality, I remember being at the vet clinic and 100% of us vet techs and veterinarians weren't qualified to adopt a pet because of a lot of the parameters that were on there.

So anyways, they would put the people, you know, through all of these hoops to get a dog and then they'd be like, okay, bye. There's your dog. See you later. And we know that it can take three to six months for a dog to show its true colors. So, they'll, they'll come into the home, they'll be more shy, they'll be reserved. And then all of a sudden, and I would say, you know, as a trainer, that's typically around six to eight months, they'll say, “Oh my gosh, my dog started biting people when they come into the door,” or, “They bit my kid out of nowhere.” And so. They didn't really set families up for success. So, I do see that there is a lot of turnaround in a lot of shelters and rescues, just because, and again, this is my opinion, is that there's not a ton of support once they get the dog in the home.

And I think the dog that was rehomed that we're referring to is actually the dog that's in my house now. Um, he was, yeah, he was in a home and now he lives in my home perfectly fine too. So, um, I guess I would still consider that 100 percent success rate because he's doing amazing.

Jordan Tyler: Yeah, you make a really good point there. There is such a huge opportunity for us as a society to get better at adopting animals. You know, not just shelter animals, but purebred dogs and research animals as well. Also, to really help pet owners understand what's in store for pet ownership. Every dog is unique, has its own personality, including the dogs, used in our research. And as an industry, we talked so much about the surge in pet ownership in the COVID era. Nobody is talking about the turnover for these dogs. So Jess, what are your thoughts about that?

Jessica Smidt: Yeah. So as we know, COVID, the shelters were almost empty because everyone was home. They thought it was a great idea. They had extra time. You know, why not adopt a dog and because everything was shut down, they were unable to socialize. There wasn't puppy classes. There weren't dog friendly places that people could take their pets to. They weren't having visitors come into their home. So, COVID really did a number for the pet world or the rescue world, I should say, because then as things started to open up again, families went back to work and a lot of dogs went back to the shelter, and then also we had puppies that for two years lived in a home just with their family, and then things started to open up and they started going, you know, to sporting events, having people over having get togethers. And that was a shocker for a lot of these dogs. So, a lot of those dogs got surrendered to shelters as well, or rehomed just because it didn't fit into the lifestyle.

So that's kind of where we're at right now is the shelters are overflowing again with dogs that need to find homes.

Jordan Tyler: Right, yeah. I know, you know, several friends and family members who adopted puppies during COVID, and you're right, those dogs had all of our attention all the time. And then suddenly when things started opening back up and we started leaving our homes again, they were opened up to all these new stressors and potentially stressful environments that they'd never been exposed to before. So, I can see how that would be really scary for them.

Jessica Smidt: Absolutely. And, you know, and genetics, I mean, we know that plays a huge effect in our dog's behavior. But the socialization is also equally as important. So, I think our puppies missed a lot of that for sure.

Jordan Tyler: So, I heard there were actually quite a few of these dogs that ended up being adopted by members of the research team. So, Dr. Clark, I know that you played a pretty big role in all of this. Do you mind sharing a little bit about what you saw when it came to how researchers interacted with and cared for these animals?

Stephanie Clark: Yeah, absolutely. These people who are taking care of these research dogs and, and while there's kind of a negative connotation behind, you know, these research facilities, the people in them truly care about the animals, you know. While they're feeding the animals, you know, the dogs on our study, you know, they were getting to know them, they knew their names and they weren't just numbers on a card.

And because of that, and like Jess had mentioned, a lot of the beagles were so loving, if I didn't have a child on the way, I was going to adopt a beagle, but I was like, there's no way I can have a newborn and a new beagle and still keep my sanity. Um, so we had, I think it was like something crazy, like seven or 10 research staff members within that facility that ended up adopting dogs, um, from our study.

And I remember Dr. Quest and I were on a call maybe a couple months ago, two, three months ago. And one of the, the technicians actually jumped on the phone with us and was like, “Just wanted to let you know the dog is doing great. Thank you so much.” You know, “we love her in our family.” And so. Occasionally we get to hear those stories and it's really great.

So, while it's never super pleasant, um, the people that are there, they do take care of these animals. And if that's not proof right there that they truly care about them so much that they wanted to take them home and make them part of their family.

Jordan Tyler: I love that. You know, another part of this, you know, it's not quite as warm and fuzzy, but still an important piece of the puzzle is. Understanding the cost of taking care of these dogs, of, you know, dogs in general. It's really expensive these days.

According to, you know, multiple sources, and it kind of depends on who you ask, but dog ownership can cost anywhere between $1,500 and $3,000 per year. And when you consider the total cost of owning a dog throughout its lifetime, you know, obviously hoping that the dog lives as long as possible. It can be like $20,000. And that's just one dog.

Anyway, I'll recover from that eventually, um, but back to the topic at hand, Dr. Quest. I'm curious how much of the total research budget was used so that we could make sure that these dogs were trained and socialized so they could be adopted after the study.

You know, having Deb and Jess working with the research facility personnel. It was a significant cost, but you know what? We promised all of our stakeholders, all of the industry companies, individuals, retailers, everybody that contributed to our research, we promised that, you know, when this research is done, we were going to adopt these dogs out, and part of doing that is making sure that they're socialized and that they're going to be able to stay in their homes.

Jordan Tyler: Mhm. And Dr. Clark, was there anything else you maybe wanted to prioritize through this process to ensure these dogs didn't end up, you know, in a local shelter down the road?

Stephanie Clark: In the adoption application, BSM had, you know, first right of refusal. So, at any time, if someone wanted to give up their dog, BSM gets first right. We had also worked with Deb and Jess and some of our guarantors to try and create a welcome bag. Um, so those who are getting these dogs weren't just getting a dog and hopefully, you know, a store was open where you could get food or treats or a leash or a collar. And Jess and Deb really did a fabulous job thinking of what these dogs need and what we could go back to our guarantors and ask for to really help with that transition.

We didn't spare any expenses, and I truly believe we picked the best people. When it comes to understanding dogs and comes to finding that perfect match and really making sure that someone truly cares about the dogs, Jess is the first person that came to my mind and I reached out to her that moment that we found out that we were going to adopt these dogs out.

I mean, we really went above and beyond and, you know, Jess and Deb took this challenge and really did an outstanding job, um, to make sure that these dogs are, are well loved. I get pictures occasionally, like that's just proof that all the, the effort and the time and the energy is totally worth it. I mean, I get goosebumps just thinking about it. I think we really picked our top two experts.

Jessica Smidt: Thank you for the kind words.

Stephanie Clark: It’s all true.

Jessica Smidt: Well, we couldn't have done it without your guys’ support. But do you remember, Dr. Clark, having a conversation with others prior to this that, um, had worked in a research facility and them saying there is absolutely no way you can take research animals and turn them into pets. And that was kind of always in the back of my head as we were going through this. And it just makes me so happy to know that, I mean, it was a 100% success rate.

I mean, these dogs are happy. Like, so Cider, who is in my house, oh, he's the biggest snuggle bug. Everyone who says you can't teach a beagle recall, he has the best recall. I have eight acres. It's surrounded by cornfields and my dogs will be running and I'll just have to holler for them. And Cider's like, boom, where's the cheese? And they're amazing dogs.

Jordan Tyler: So quick caveat. I want to spend some time talking about how these dogs were named. So, I've heard about Cider, and Grandpa, and a few others. And now I'm just really curious, who named these dogs?

Jessica Smidt: We weren't allowed into the facility until the very end, but we knew they needed names. You know, to start writing bios and so the research team at the facility had started to, uh, name them before we got there.

Jordan Tyler: Okay, okay, I see. I wasn't sure if there was like an overarching theme or anything like that, but it sounds like the researchers named the dogs based largely on their personalities, which probably how a lot of us name our dogs.

Jessica Smidt: Yep, exactly.

Stephanie Clark: Yeah, because Grandpa, he looked like a grandpa. He was just a little old man looking. He kind of had that older gray face, but he wasn't old. He was just, he looked that way. And so, the staff lovingly and dearly called him Grandpa. There was Timber and he was more of a coonhound mix. And he, you know, was a little bit more of a country boy. So Timber is the name. We had the Kardashians. So, we had Khloe, Kourtney. And who was the other one?

Jessica Smidt: Kim, right?

Stephanie Clark: Yes, yes. But they were all K names and they all were like 100% the exact same breed. They looked identical and so they were the Kardashian sisters.

Jordan Tyler: That's really awesome. Well, Jess, I have loved hearing all the things that you're passionate about and wanting to do to help make pets more adoptable.

Quick side note: I forgot to mention earlier that Jess has also served as the Animal Assisted Therapy Program Coordinator for Mayo Clinic, where she trained, assessed and placed therapy dogs so they could share the healing powers of companionship with patients who need it most. And fun fact: this was actually where Jess met Dr. Stephanie Clark, while Dr. Clark was conducting research with animals.

Anyway, I'm excited to hear more about this adventure Jess that you've started with your own pet rescue, Forever Fido Puppy Rescue. I think you mentioned it a bit earlier, but would you mind sharing a little bit more about how this new shelter will impact your community?

Jessica Smidt: So, kind of like I had mentioned, I was fostering dogs for other organizations and just saw a lot of things that I would do differently. The co-founder of my rescue, Nicole, she is also a dog trainer and has been in the rescue world for a long time and she actually came to work for me at my training facility part time and we, you know, we're just sitting and talking about things that we would do as best practices if we had a rescue and we could do it our way. And so we were like, why don't we just start our own?

And so what our emphasis is on is we keep the dogs for at least four weeks and we start some basic training on them, but it's really not even the training aspect that we like to keep them for, it's more so we can really get to know their personality. Because a lot of times in shelters, they're shut down and they're not showing their true colors. So, we like to make sure we know what we're putting out into the world and being able to coach the owners on that individual dog. So, kind of like we did with this study, was making sure that we're pairing the right dog with the right family.

And then the other thing that we do is we offer free training for our dogs. We have an online course, we have a private Facebook group, and then obviously there's puppy classes and basic manner classes we teach as well that we offer for free. And then there's plenty of homes that we've went to just to go in and problem-solve, look for different barking areas or digging spots or, you know, just stuff like that, that we do for free. Because our goal is that once we place the dogs in a home, they're there forever.

Jordan Tyler: Super inspiring. And hopefully when this episode goes out, you'll get a surge of people. You know, wanting to adopt those dogs. We'll be sure to put links in the episode description so people can learn more about your services and the courses you offer.

As we close out today's episode, I just want to extend one last thank you to Jess, Deb, and the BSM Partners team for ensuring these tail wagging research subjects got their Happily Ever After’s.

While the majority of research animals may not live the most luxurious lifestyles, they have extremely important jobs, helping us better understand how dietary and non-dietary factors impact pet health and wellness, so that we can be better going forward. This doesn't mean we can't give back to them by providing research animals with loving homes at the end of their work.

And it's been so great learning about the time and care that went into prepping these research pups for their forever homes. And who knows, maybe some of our listeners will be inspired to adopt a research dog. If you're out there listening and have a story about adopting a former research dog, please reach out, because we'd love to hear about it.

So that does it for this latest episode of Barking Mad. If you want to learn more about BSM Partners, please visit us at bsmpartners.net. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite leading podcast platform and share it with a friend to stay current on the latest pet industry trends and conversations.

We'd also like to thank our dedicated team: Ada-Miette Thomas, Neeley Bowden, Paige Lanier, Kait Wright, and Dr. Katy Miller. A special shout out to Dr. Stephanie Clark and Dr. Bradley Quest for leading this project, and an extra special thank you to all the individuals who adopted a dog. Thank you for updating us every year and please keep those updates coming. We love them!