In this new episode of the Jewelry Connoisseur podcast, gemstone and jewelry dealer Melissa Wolfgang Amenc from Golay Fils & Stahl, Geneva, shares her insights into what helps make long-lasting, meaningful connections in the industry. As a sixth-generation dealer, she knows the jewelry trade inside out and is always willing to share her valuable knowledge with newcomers, especially through the association she cofounded, The Glitterati.

Welcome to the Jewelry Connoisseur podcast. And now your host, Sonia Esther Soltani.

Welcome to the Jewelry Connoisseur podcast. It’s the podcast for people in the jewelry industry that want to learn more and it's also for jewelry lovers, who just want to expand their knowledge. Here we talk about everything that has to do with vintage and antique jewelry. I am your host, Sonia Esther Soltani, I am the editor of Rapaport. I edit a monthly magazine for the trade that covers everything from mining to retail. I'm also editing an online publication called Jewelry Connoisseur, like this podcast, where you can learn about estate jewelry, contemporary design and gemstones, and I'm curating an Instagram account, Rapaport Jewelry Pro, in which we try to educate as much as possible our listeners who are all enthusiastic about jewelry.

I love to learn about jewelry. I love to have exciting guests who tell me more. And I hope that by the end of this episode, you’ll also feel you've discovered something new about the fascinating world of jewelry.

Something very important in our industry is connection, trust. How do you build it? How do people want to do business with you? To have this conversation I couldn't think of a better guest than Melissa Wolfgang Amenc. Melissa is a sixth-generation gem and jewelry dealer based in Geneva. She works for Golay Fils and Stahl. And she's also on many gemological associations, including la Association suisse des négociants de pierres précieuses (ASNP) and the Swiss Gemological Institute (SSEF). She's also the co-founder of The Glitterati, that she will discuss a bit later in this episode.

What we learn with Melissa today is that mistakes are a good thing, going to trade shows is essential. You learn a lot there, you make connections. You also discover maybe some intimate details about people you would never have suspected. More to come. And how important it is to make genuine connections that come from the heart, and I think you're going to enjoy a lot of the wisdom that Melissa has to impart.

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Sonia: Hi, Melissa, how are you?

Melissa: Hi, Sonia, I'm great, thank you. Thank you for having me.

Sonia: So I wanted to start with something we discussed with Melissa, what it means to have a good name. So what would you say, Melissa? How do you get a good name in this industry?

Melissa: Well, I'm obviously very biased. I don't know what it's like to have a different name than the one I have. I come from a very privileged background. As you said, I'm sixth generation in my family, so there were five generations doing the work before I got here and I got to benefit from that. I think that having a good name is really important to build trust or to continue to trust or to get your food in the door. But I also think that just being a hard worker and having no name is equally important. I know plenty of people that I'm very close to that are zero generation or first generation, and they're extremely hard working and they do everything right and they're very successful. So I think we're entering a new sort of era of our industry where hard work is equal to nepotism, if I can say that. It probably always was, but I think that it's taking up a precedent, maybe.

Sonia: And can you tell us a bit more about about your family?

Sonia: And obviously you knew that you came you had to make yourself known in his industry. But how do you also built on this trust?

Melissa: I always worked really hard. I'm not patting myself on the back, I think a lot of people who are successful work hard. I started working when I was 15 and doing odd jobs because I wanted to make my own pocket money. And then when I was 20, I started working in the industry, so I just I worked hard. I was always taught that to learn about jewelry, you had to see a lot of jewelry. So I went where I could see a lot of jewelry, and I was very fortunate that I knew a lot of people through my family who gave me opportunities and helped me pave the way. But I think having a really strong work ethic probably garnered me some trust and. Yeah, I think working hard is really important. I don't think it's that complicated, really. I think you just do the work. You learn everything that you can, you read the books, you gain as much knowledge as you can and you know, you can know a lot of things, but you have to show up and do the work. And I worked in places where I had very strong leaders in front of me. You know, my father has a very strong work ethic. I worked at Christie's and François had a very strong work ethic and I was never taught that there was a second option.

Sonia: Absolutely. And I think I heard another interview with François Curiel. When he said, you always have to be the last one leaving the office. Is it something that you heard as well, Melissa?

Melissa: I've heard better and I've heard worse when it comes to working with François. But I'll always say that I learned a lot from working with him, and I don't think I was the last one to leave the office by any means. But I definitely was taught that you had to work hard.

Sonia: For someone joining the jewelry industry right now. What mistakes would you tell them to avoid at any cost? Just to be sure that they can grow and flourish in this in this industry.

Melissa: I think actually mistakes are wonderful trampolines for learning. There are not a lot of mistakes that I would recommend you not make other than not paying your bills. I think that if you want people to respect you and to trust you. Our business is one of the few businesses that has existed just on your word and a Mazal and a handshake for so many generations and centuries, really, that I think that if you keep your word and you pay your bills on time, I recommend making all kinds of other mistakes because that's how you learn. I still make mistakes and I'm still learning.

Sonia: Is there one mistake that you would like to share with us that you feel was really a big learning curve for you?

Melissa: I think the mistakes I've made have just been more, you have illusion in a piece and you see a price and maybe you paid a little too much. I think people underestimate the emotional aspect of our industry, I think very few people don't get emotional. I think a lot of people say they don't get emotional, but I think it's human nature to be emotional about buying things that are beautiful and involving a lot of money. I think it's easy to get carried away when you see something, sometimes you have that feeling of needing to own something. You fall in love with a piece or with a stone, and you, you know very well that you're not going to make a lot of money, but you just have this feeling where you need to own it. You need to be a part of the story. I think my mistakes have been probably more related to that type of thing, you know, wanting to buy things and paying a little too much. And probably I've made a lot of human errors along the way. You know, I grew up in this industry, literally grew up as a human being in the industry. I started when I was 20 and I'm 45. So I think it would be a gross understatement to not imagine that I've gone through many phases of life in this industry, as you know, as many people do.

Sonia: No, no, I agree with you. I think that is actually this part of intimacy that people know each other so well. And, is there any mistake you could share with our listeners that you think taught you something?

Melissa: I think it's easy to get carried away with our emotions in this industry. We buy beautiful things with lots of money and it's easy to fall into this fonctionnement where you just want to own something. You know you're not going to make money, but you just you just want to hold on to it a little bit longer. I think we've all made those mistakes, myself included, where you just pay a little too much, you get a little too carried away. And then I think it's easy also to make mistakes on a human level. You are a young woman. You come from a long line of people. You feel like you have big shoes to fill and you're going through what a friend of mine used to call growing pains, just becoming an adult. And I don't think those are mistakes, I just think there are parts of life that we underestimate. And there's a real intimacy I think to our industry. We spend a lot of time on the road or we used to, doing shows you it's that sort of false sense of intimacy that you have on Instagram. You know, when you follow someone and you see them on vacation and you see their families and you're not really supposed to know that they were in the Bahamas last week, but you feel like you know their whole life and you run into them and you have a conversation and you realize, you know absolutely nothing about them. Going to shows is kind of the same you. You spend a week in close quarters with people and you see them sleeping in the airplane in their pajamas and you see them at the pool, in their bathing suit and you have drinks and you go out to dinner. And it really creates this sense of knowing a person and intimacy. And then the week is over and you go back home. And I mean, obviously, you do business during all of those things, not to make it seem like we just go to the pool and have drinks. I think it's easy to feel a closeness in an industry that really is about business. It's hard to explain.

Sonia: That's why I wanted you to have you on this specific podcast on this topic, because there's more than the business deal and this intimacy. I think it's also something that, you know, if you have empathy and you understand what the other people want, that's very important and that creates this long-term relationships that are not just based on I sold your beautiful piece of jewelry for the right price and, you know, we shook the hand, and that's it. So, how do you create something more intimate and long lasting in terms of connections than just, you know, saying, OK, we've done the right price, the right deal, I paid my bills on time?

Melissa: I think it really, as you said, depends on your personality. I don't think I was always so open to that type of relationship with my clients. I think some clients, it just clicked and some didn't. And it depends on their boundaries, also. I try to be respectful of other people's boundaries. Some people are not interested in what you did on your summer vacation or where you had dinner last night. I'm always interested because as you said, I like to connect to most people. I'm able to do a business deal with you on Monday and have dinner with you on Tuesday. But the two don't overlap and one has no effect on the other. But not everybody is like that. And that's something that maybe I learned over time. Not consciously, but it just came. And how do you create connection? I really don't know. Some people I'm super connected to and some people I've been working really hard to be connected to. Sometimes it's just a moment. I had a client for years and years and years, and every time I would see the person, I would say. Oh, let's have dinner or let's have a coffee or anything, some liquid in a cup, let's just see each other. And they always really kept me at arm's length. And finally, I kind of gave up and I saw the person at a big event. It was at a wedding, and we were sitting in the same hotel. And she was with her husband and I was with my husband in it. You know, it just we were on the other side of the world and it just created a little bit of that last little bit where I was able to realize that it was not personal. It was just they kept a great distance between themselves and the people they did business with for a myriad of different reasons. And that week at this event created a friendship that is something that I will always cherish, because it was just the little tiny bit that was left and today she's someone I'm very close with and who has helped me and taught me a tremendous amount. Sometimes it's just a little thing where you need to see someone in a different setting or take things out of context. It's hard to define, really, because it just really depends on the two personalities. It's alchemy.

Sonia: Yeah.

Melissa: And sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

Sonia: That's so true, and I think, also to remember, is nothing personal.

Melissa: It's hard for me to remember. It's, I have to literally. It's like a broken record in my mind. It's not personal, it's not personal, it's not personal. Because for me, so many things are personal because I put really my heart and soul into everything that I do, or I don't do it, but I have to remind myself constantly that very few people function in that same way.

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The Jewelry Connoisseur Podcast will be back after this break.

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Sonia: And talking about putting your heart and soul into something. I think that's a good time for listeners if they don't know about The Glitterati, that you co-founded a few years ago. What is the glitterati and why did you want to set up this association specifically?

Melissa: The Glitterati is a nonprofit association with the goal of creating synergy among women in the industry, so we provide mentorship, education… We started pre-pandemic, and I think we had lofty goals for education and then the pandemic happened and everything became online. And it's hard to sort of get out of that because we're kind of like online and also we're sort of always we would never know which foot to dance on with the pandemic, because once you get comfortable with, Oh, let's have an event, then you know, there's another strain of Covid that comes. So for now, I'm not even trying to get out of the online right now because I'm comfortable there for the time being, and I know it's not the best place to be. So we do webinars we did four or five great webinars last year trying to bring interesting subjects to people who may or may not have the privilege or the access that I was lucky enough to have. As you mentioned earlier, because I've been around for a little while. I know a lot of people, so I try to use my connections and the connections of my connections to bring things to the table for people to have access to interesting things. We have about 88 members, which is a good boutique size for an association. People contact me for all types of different things, you know? I have a job interview. What do you think about this? or I am quitting my job, this job is going to be available. Do you have any members that you think would know? It's, you know, it goes from the mundane to the life changing, and I'm just happy to be able to contribute to helping other people because I'm aware that not everybody was as lucky as I was. And I I'm just happy to give back and give back in a lot of different ways, not just with The Glitterati, but I'm satisfied to just have, you know, a conversation with someone and think that maybe I helped them.

Sonia: Sure. And where do the members come from The Glitterati, because you're based in Geneva, but you have members from all over the world.

Melissa: I am in Geneva and my members are indeed all over the world.

Sonia: And they are at different stages of their career, you would say. You have some young women who are starting in the industry. You have newcomers as well, which just may be decided to have a career change. And you have people who've been in this industry for a long time and have vast experience and you brought them together with the association.

Melissa: We do, we have 11 women who are mentors from all different walks of life of the industry. There are people that work in manufacturing. There are people that work in diamonds and stones, antique jewelry, vintage jewelry, people who have small businesses, people who are not really interested in mentoring about jewelry, but who are happy to teach you on how to run a small business. So really, across the board, there's a great group of women. I'm not per se in the mentoring committee, but I think I do probably contribute quite a bit. It's just nice, you know, it's just nice. I see young people (or like you said not young people) but newcomers come into the industry and they don't really know where to start, it's hard to know how to get your feet off the ground, and again, I don't consider myself someone who knows how to do that because I never had to. But I want to help the people who need it if I can.

Sonia: So as someone who's relative newcomer I'm a full disclosure member of The Glitterati. And I think what you do is fantastic. People would not have the chance to see each other at the shows, especially during Covid, who suddenly had opportunities to interact, who have, as you said, these 11 mentors were very generous with their time. If you want to contact them and I think it just creates this network that you need when you start in any type of industry, but especially an industry that is so close knit where you need to have people that you can rely on. And they've, you know, just bounce ideas and sometimes doubts as well about where you are going, what you should do. And I think that's wonderful that you created this place. That's very much a nurturing place for women and that I know that you contribute to a lot of other associations as well, not just this one, but I would say really for people who are listening just to check it. And I think what you've achieved as well with the webinars and education was fantastic during Covid, to keep us entertained and educated and informed. So that's really a big thank you. And I think you do a lot for women in the industry.

Melissa: I always feel guilty that I that I don't do enough, but I definitely do as much as I can. And also my participation in the other associations, I definitely have access to information. And I'm lucky to be connected to a lot of people who have access to great information.

Sonia: And as you said, Melissa, there's something very special and this magical about trade shows and for someone who's been attending trade shows for a long time. What do you think? Do you think if you are someone coming into this industry, you should try to attend as many trade shows as possible, now that they're coming back?

Melissa: Well, I love trade shows. I don't know why.

Sonia: Is it to see people in bikini by the swimming pool?

Melissa: No. No, it's interesting because I'm actually really a self-professed misanthrope, so it's interesting that I really thrive at shows. My earliest memories of the industry, other than going to the office with my father on Saturdays was going to Basel. And this was when Basel was very different than how it was in recent years. It was the most important show, and I remember that Basil was so important and it was the rendezvous. It was the place. And when I started working, I really wanted to make a name for myself and that I don't mean get away from my family, I mean, I wanted to have people not say, Hi sweetie, is your dad here? I wanted people to know who I was as a person. I wanted to be my own person. And the only way to do that was to go where he was not. So we didn't do any shows in America, so I started doing shows in the states. I set up this little infrastructure for myself. And of course, I think trade shows are important because that's that was really the seed that allowed my own tree to flourish. Trade shows have changed a lot over the years, but I still think that it's important to do them because I think that face to face is important. In the last two years, I've done plenty of business in chats and online and over the phone and with established clients that I have where we have trusting relationships and I can send them a picture and send them a piece, you know, with Malca-Amit or with FedEx. But nothing will ever come close to a face to face and. I think seeing people and nourishing the relationships that you already have and that you've already built, you know, and also creating new ones that always happens. I always say that's a good show is connecting to someone new, selling a stock without losing any money and buying a good piece of jewelry that you can make money on later, and if you can do all of those three things, if you can get the trifecta in one show, that's, you know, the goal. Doesn't always happen. But I think shows are a great way to. To get to know someone in business, really, because I think that when you're doing a deal with someone, that's where you can see certain things of their personality that you'll never see over the phone or over text. And I just, you know, human connection is important.

Sonia: Great. I agree. I will share that with our listeners, we met on Instagram. I would say if you if you want to say it this way.

Melissa: We did, we did.

Sonia: And we had a few events on Instagram, which were absolutely lovely. And then we only met in person last autumn in Geneva for GemGenève. And sometimes you just know that you, you click with people and you and you're going to get on. That's a big blessing. I think in this industry, to create these connections, you don't know where they come from, but they just happen. I think that's something I would tell to anyone joining this industry. Just be yourself in your connections. Show your real you.

Melissa: I agree with that. But I will say that it took me a very, very, very, very long time to, and sometimes I still am not able, to be my real me. So I think it's easier said than done. I think it takes a lot of self-confidence to be yourself with people you don't know. I also encourage that, but I also understand that it's not easy for everybody, especially and again, emotions, money, you know, ego. There's a lot of factors in the melting pot here that make it hard to really be yourself.

Sonia: Absolutely. And do you have a motto you go by… something that, I know you read a lot. I know you learn, you grow. You know, so what is the motto with your experience that you could impart with our listeners?

Melissa: I have so many, I'm obsessed with so many people that have so many great things to say. Unfortunately, none of them are really mine. Adam Grant, Brené Brown, I mean, you know all the people I'm obsessed with. Can I say a bad word, one bad word?

Sonia: Go for it.

Melissa: So I would say the best motto is inhale the good shit, exhale the bullshit. I think that is probably the best motto, especially at trade shows. Just breathe in and out.

Sonia: Love it, I think that's a great one to close on. It wasn't a bad word.

Melissa: No, is a tiny bad word. And anyone that knows me knows that that's probably the nicest bad word I'll ever say.

Sonia: Thanks, Melissa. Thanks for being yourself, really. It's a real privilege to know you. I think, you know, for any anyone coming into this industry. And for anyone, I would say just, just you know, just build your network, try to find like-minded people that you connect with. Maybe it's not this connection. It's not right now for your business. Maybe in 10 years time, you'll do business together. Who knows? I would say nurture people. And you know, and I think also be kind because you don't know where people are going to be and you don't know. And people have a long memory as well. And I think that’s a really fun industry, that's so based on connections. I think that's really, really important to start with, you know, an open heart.

Melissa: I agree with everything. People have long memories, but I also think that people make mistakes.

Sonia: That is so important, I think, because at the beginning we had this conversation and I said, what mistakes to avoid? And I love the fact that you say, you know these mistakes are important to actually embrace, not just to erase and push under the carpet.

Melissa: A hundred percent, as long as you're capable of saying, I made a mistake and where am I going to go from here? What am I going to do with this? And what am I going to build on it? I think that is you know, vital. And anyone that says that that doesn't happen to them is not telling the truth, whether it be to themselves or to someone else.

Sonia: Love it.

Melissa: Thank you, Sonia. It was so nice to be here with you. It's always a pleasure to spend time with you, and I hope that I said at least one thing that could make someone feel like they participated.

Sonia: I'm sure they did. I'm sure thank you so much for your time and your generosity, as always. Thank you.

Melissa: It's my pleasure. Thank you.

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Thanks for listening to this new episode of The Jewelry Connoisseur podcast. If you want to follow us, please do so on Rapaport Jewelry Pro on Instagram. Please, like the podcast, leave us comments, email me. We want to know what you think, what you would like to learn with us, and if you want to connect with any of our guests, please do so. And we also encourage you to subscribe to our newsletter jewelryconnoisseur.net in which you will learn about gemstones, estate jewelry and contemporary design.