You are never too old to change your career. The average Australian changes jobs 13 times in their lifetime, with many taking up study or starting businesses in their 40s. While career resets are challenging at any age, they are particularly so in mid-life.

In this episode, Daniel Sih and Matt Bain explore why we need habits of “set and reset” to navigate a career transition. We also hear from Gustav Lammerding from Banjo’s Bakery Cafe’s about his experiences in helping migrants start their own businesses.

Resources:

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CAREER RESET VIDEO

LIFEPLAN

PRIORITY SAMURAI E-LEARNING COURSE

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SPACEMAKERS WEBSITE

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RAISING TECH HEALTHY HUMANS

This season is made possible with support from our sponsors: Banjo's Bakery Cafes

This podcast is recorded and produced by Production Farm Studios

Mentioned in this episode:

Spacemakers Clifton Strengths Coaching

Did you know that people who focus on their strengths are 6 times more likely to be engaged in their jobs and 3 times more likely to report an excellent quality of life? If you’re in a period of reset and want to explore your strengths with one of our accredited CliftonStrengths coaches, visit spacemakers.au/strengths.

Spacemakers Clifton Strengths

[00:00:25] DANIEL: Are the very barriers that hinder maturity in our 40s and 50s. Big thanks to our sponsor, Banjo's Bakery Cafes, who are expanding across Australia and looking for new franchisees. If you're hardworking and business savvy, visit franchise. banjos. com. au and save 10 percent on franchise fees by mentioning SpaceMakers.

[00:00:44] PROMO V/O: SpaceMakers. Daniel Sih and Matt Bain.

[00:01:04] DANIEL: Hi Dan, good to see you. So we are talking about the big idea that the types of habits and practices that set you up for success in your twenties and thirties often hinder progress in your forties, fifties and beyond. So how do we unlearn old habits that worked in one season of our life in order to set ourself up for a new one?

[00:01:26] MATT: about career resets, career research. It's an intriguing term and a valuable one. I reckon one good way of thinking about it is it's considering both the job that you currently have, the career that you currently have, but also looking at the possibility of the career slash job you're going to have in the future.

[00:01:43] DANIEL: Yeah. So what do you do if you feel stuck? If you feel stale? You know that it's time for a sea change and yet you're not quite sure how to take the next step. We're going to talk about habits and practices and frameworks to help you reset your career and make space for a better life. In fact, according to Australian research, the [00:02:00] average Australian changes their jobs 13 times in their lifetime.

[00:02:26] DANIEL: So in terms of jobs, I've at least had, if I consider being an ice cream driver and a pizza driver and making tin cans when I was young. You worked in a tin can factory.

[00:02:41] MATT: That would have been rough. Yeah. I survived for a whole two weeks. That really counts.

[00:02:46] MATT: paint cans. I was thinking a lot more, like more of the equivalent of paper cuts. You know what I mean? Dicey .

[00:02:53] DANIEL: Mm-Hmm. But then I was a physio, uh, I was a health manager. I've been a project manager. I've been a director of a [00:03:00] nonprofit. I've been a church minister. I've been a marriage celebrant. I've started a small business and now obviously I'm an author productivity speaker. So, um, so while I've had lots of jobs, I've definitely had probably four or five actual career changes.

[00:03:26] MATT: Yeah. Well, like now that. Before we started recording, we started like bouncing around. I started counting in my head, like how many jobs I've had. And I was surprised. I thought maybe 13 was going to be, you know, like just an aspiration in that, but I haven't changed professions.

[00:04:04] MATT: understandably intimidating, because there's a good chance if you made it that far in one profession, you feel, um, that you've got some mastery and you feel pretty competent in that profession. And the thought of having to switch up and do something new, like, you know, that's going to put you in a position of having to be a learner again.

[00:04:34] DANIEL: What you and I have both learnt in that place of unknowing, that space where you know that something has to change, there's kind of more energy to go forward than to stay with the status quo because there's enough that kind of propels you to change, jumping into something new is terrifying.

[00:04:51] MATT: So big picture, worth it.

[00:05:09] DANIEL: At the end of this episode, we're also going to have a fantastic interview that we had with Gus Lamading from Banjo's Bakery Cafes. He's going to talk about how to help small business owners start their own franchises, and he's got some fantastic stories about working with migrants and people starting their own businesses in the midlife reset to actually start a Banjo's Bakery cafe, and it's been fascinating to hear some of what he's learned guiding people through that process.

[00:05:41] MATT: So Dan, before we go, Much further into career recess that we want to obviously check back in with the exercise, the exercises that we asked people to undertake from our last episode. And we talked about health. We did. Making space for a change in your health. Yes. Yeah. So as per usual, our challenges.

[00:06:17] MATT: shape your identity as someone who takes their health seriously and exercise seriously. Because you're

[00:06:29] MATT: are. Going forward, yeah. For those who are a little bit older, again, like mid 40s onwards, we stress that, um, particularly if you felt that that's been deficient in your life, of late, then doing anything, It's better than nothing, right?

[00:06:49] DANIEL: Yeah. So how'd you go? What did I do? Yeah, what did you do? So I had no idea what I was going to do when we finished our episode. Sure. And it was interesting because Uh, a few days after, I was at a [00:07:00] dinner party, and I actually caught up with an old friend, a guy called Al.

[00:07:18] DANIEL: Yeah, I've been really, really cold showers and dipping himself in really, really cold water. And I'm like, that sounds absolutely terrible because like I'm a guy who wears like a thermal and three layers every single day. I'm always cold. And he was like, no, every day he has Two minutes of completely zero icy cold.

[00:07:47] Yeah.

[00:07:53] DANIEL: We get stale and actually two minutes is something I could try and why not I might like it I might not [00:08:00] but it's something I've never done and I've now done it three days in a row and I plan to continue at least for another few to see how it goes. But yep, freezing cold tap. You hold your breath Yeah, you hold your breath for two minutes, too.

[00:08:25] MATT: Yeah. Wow. That's uncanny. Well, it is because the thing that I've been doing for the last couple of weeks is having cold showers.

[00:08:50] MATT: So he talked about the benefits based on his research. He said like 30 seconds, like 30 seconds minimum, we'll get you like, say 80 to 90 percent worth of the benefits over the past. And [00:09:00] he's Al

[00:09:01] MATT: minute. He did. Yeah. Yeah. It's because we both know he's a closet sadist. So that probably goes some way.

[00:09:22] MATT: So now it's very simple, black and white every day. He goes from his hot shower and then the last 30 seconds is just pure cold. That's what I'm doing. Yeah. And again, I've been feeling it's just a great way to start. The day in terms of feeling really vital and invigorated and to some degree, it's like, well, what is going to be harder than what I've just done as well.

[00:09:44] DANIEL: it helps information and it wakes you up. It helps you focus on the

[00:09:52] MATT: And one of it's not really good for you. You read a book

[00:10:09] DANIEL: It changes your mindset and it doesn't have to be, you know, cold water therapy, but do something different. Yeah.

[00:10:38] MATT: And I was talking about like, what do I do with my life career career wise, right? And at the time I was feeling a fair bit of pressure to kind of get it right straight away. So I could just like dive in and focus on it. And he backed me up a little bit and said, no, no, no, Matt, it's like this. You've got to imagine not just like now, but your career.

[00:11:09] MATT: They've just like given them to you. They've taken the top off the box and then they've like dumped all the pieces on your table and scrambled them. So you've got all these puzzles right in front of you and you don't know which bits go with which. which ending. So he said the twenties to the forties is basically you sorting through all those pieces and working out which bit goes into which particular puzzle.

[00:11:36] DANIEL: you're just trying to work out what puzzle

[00:11:53] MATT: Well,

[00:12:06] DANIEL: You know, selective in your swing and say no rather than yes to lots of stuff. Because you've got to get rid of a lot of puzzle pieces. So these are the puzzle pieces that are mine. These are outside of my warehouse. I can do them, but they're not

[00:12:21] MATT: You could do any of those puzzles. Yeah. But you can't do all the puzzles. And

[00:12:25] DANIEL: hard when you've got the capacity to do any of these puzzles, or you know, many of them well. And everyone's actually asking you to keep doing those puzzles, but it's like, I actually have to have focus. But then by the time you hit, let's say your mid forties and fifties, you actually want to slow down, make space and really think deeply about who you are.

[00:12:58] MATT: And maybe your most important reset too.

[00:13:06] DANIEL: All right. So Matt, let's talk about the set and reset framework. Now I've written this up in my award winning book, space maker, and it's connected with lots of people. It's based on conversations I've had and coaching I've had with people who are in And also, I suppose, an examination of the types of things that worked for me through different, particularly career transition.

[00:13:37] MATT: Well, I think like just on face value, um, yeah, obviously it means that you, you could feel like you're making progress because you are, like, cause like there's movement, but actually like changing positions, but it's all like, ultimately it's almost futile because again, you're actually headed in completely the wrong direction.

[00:13:59] DANIEL: further [00:14:00] away by making progress. Yeah. I've definitely seen that. So when I was a physiotherapist, I did get to a stage, I was a clinical physiotherapist and I just felt like I was completely stuck.

[00:14:37] MATT: Yeah. And maybe also, because I think this is important, although you felt stuck, like your words, you were still really good at being a physio. Hmm.

[00:14:54] DANIEL: Yeah. And I wanted to be incredible at something. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:10] MATT: So people would say, Hey Dan, great job with that puzzle. Absolutely.

[00:15:34] DANIEL: And I call that a period of set where you feel comfortable in your job. You feel like you're in the right place. Uh, you've got goals that you're excited about, maybe new opportunities and you're learning, you're learning stuff along the way. Then you hit reset, which is like a trough where. Uh, you just enter that space that we've talked about where you know something needs to change.

[00:16:19] DANIEL: And that's what I find fascinating that the habits and practices of set, the habits that allow you to be successful when you're set in a career almost need to be unlearned and undone in a period of reset. Sure.

[00:16:42] MATT: Or even a job. Yeah, job. Okay.

[00:17:02] DANIEL: So it doesn't always mean you have to change. Sometimes you have to change, but the change is significant even if it's internal or external. But, uh, Um, let's, let's keep it simple and we'll talk about actually changing a job or a job. Yeah.

[00:17:18] MATT: He was fantastic. Um, yeah. So, okay. So, uh, what, what I'm wondering, um, is that like, could the reasons for that, so the reasons that that leads to those feelings that you were talking about, they could be beyond. your career as in so could a reason for a reset for example be I've something's changed in my family situation so I need hence to change my career because I maybe I've got these family demands that are suddenly so understandably taxing on me they need my attention I can't invest so much time in my career so I need to reset my career.

[00:18:08] DANIEL: Um, obviously, you know, getting sick. Uh, and, you know, like, not being able to do the job in the way you used to. Uh, but even like, they're individual or personal reasons. But you can also have broader reasons. Let's say a global pandemic. I mean, we can talk about the great resignation. Well, I mean, the pandemic was a time for many of us to take stock and make space to think about the life we're living.

[00:18:47] DANIEL: But the point is, something changes. Internally, externally, in your family, in culture. And it thrusts you into a new state of being. Okay. In life is that change happens and if you're not willing to [00:19:00] change as things change, you get stuck.

[00:19:10] MATT: Yeah.

[00:19:19] MATT: some classic poetry right there. Classic

[00:19:31] DANIEL: You know, someone who constantly changes jobs because they just get bored. Or, they like a job, it's exciting, and then suddenly it becomes hard and they realize they're actually not as competent as they think, their lack of skill is exposed, and rather than actually dig down and actually master the skills they need through deliberate practice and hard work, they end up failing.

[00:20:16] DANIEL: but it's not the habitual jumping from one lawn to another well manured lawn. Okay,

[00:20:32] MATT: That's good. And what about like, I mean, what about if you're someone and these like a, uh, They're probably like a pretty rare breed in my experience. It certainly wasn't me. There certainly wasn't you, but, um, well, I'm not sure if you've seen this great TV show called the bear, but there's this character in the bear, right?

[00:21:01] MATT: Cause I've never really felt this need for a career.

[00:21:17] DANIEL: Yeah. Uh, but look, even still. I mean, I definitely felt, would I say cold to be a physio, I definitely felt cold to be a manager. I felt that was like a, something that was very, very intrinsic. And when I got that job, I felt a great deal of affinity to that. I put a lot of energy and passion into it. And then I felt cold to be a church minister, you know, talk about calling.

[00:21:59] DANIEL: Yeah. And [00:22:00] now seems to be a different type of calling, but still expressing the same values, same beliefs, actually same faith. So even a calling can sometimes change or needs to be let go of and redefined. Not always, but I just think the human life requires that you're a different type of person in different stages.

[00:23:02] DANIEL: But different people with the same personality, same strengths, same bad dad jokes in my case, but different. And I think that goes with anything. You don't want to hold a calling on so tightly, you lose the opportunity to go with the change that comes your way.

[00:23:25] MATT: Maybe you're someone who has that, particularly if you're younger, you have a really strong sense of calling to a, to a particular profession. Even then there's a good chance that you would change up roles and jobs within that umbrella. And also, um, like you may have a really strong, like a really strong conviction almost about a a particular calling towards profession.

[00:23:51] DANIEL: Because it may

[00:23:52] DANIEL: Well, absolutely.

[00:24:11] DANIEL: We won't go into great detail because that's probably another topic all by itself. But he, he suggests that it's not helpful to have one very strong singular defining goal that, that defines your identity. So let's say you're going for the gold medal in the Olympic games. You get that gold medal. then many people get depressed because their entire existence has been around one singular goal at the exclusion of all else, and actually it can unbalance you.

[00:24:57] DANIEL: So yes, I was wrong or I had to change [00:25:00] one area of my life, which was my job, but actually I'm still married to the same beautiful woman. I'm still a dad. I'm still a neighbor to the same people I've been neighbor to for 15 years and still have community. So those areas haven't changed. Uh, so I think again, if you can, I think that's something that happens as you mature over your midlife, sometimes you're imagination of, of what really matters and what you're chasing becomes a bit wider as well, and not so narrow and competitive and goal centric.

[00:25:48] DANIEL: So let's talk about the habits of set and reset. So when you're in a period of set, so you're, you're riding the wave, you're in a job and you know what you want to achieve. Well, then what are the habits and practices you need to. [00:26:00] Uh, and this is the stuff like I think I put this in the core productivity bucket, you know, you need to set a goal, you want to break your tasks down into tangible next steps.

[00:26:37] DANIEL: So it's very distracting to spend a lot of time thinking about big picture ideas about, am I in the right place? Job, am I in the right place, the right career. When you're in set, you actually need to be focusing on, what should I say at this next meeting? How do I prepare this agenda and how do I sit down and actually write that next part of the presentation?

[00:27:15] DANIEL: I think that's the grass is greener type idea, where you just jump at something because you have to solve it and you have to keep moving. Whereas I would actually say if set is about moving fast, uh, reset is about moving slow. You know, I, I like the work of Robert Buford who wrote Halftime. It's an older book now, but he suggests that when you hit a halftime, which is essentially a reset.

[00:28:01] DANIEL: Uh, and, and all of that takes a bit of time and, and it's a different set of habits than set.

[00:28:08] DANIEL: So when I'm in a period of reset, I spend a lot more time in silence. That's my personality, but I go for long walks on the beach and I think, I write in my journal. I typically revisit my CliftonStrengths assessments and maybe Myers Briggs and other things.

[00:28:40] DANIEL: So you're not staying still. You're not doing nothing like, you know, watching lots of Netflix and kind of scrolling TikTok reels. That's, that truly is wasting time. But it's about holding an active space or what I call actively doing nothing. Uh, and, and it's in that space [00:29:00] where you discover the next step, and then you do the next step and you spend more time making space.

[00:29:12] MATT: Yeah. Look, I like that and it makes sense to me, but I'm also aware, I suppose if I put on my, you know, like my realist pragmatic hat as well. No, it's like, seriously, because I think this is because there's going to be some people who are listening to this guy.

[00:29:49] MATT: They're not so, they're not so kind of heady that they're inclined to journaling or they just like, they don't even like, they don't have the financial means or the time for say, like, you know, to pay for [00:30:00] a professional coaching, you know, or a mentor, you know? So it's like, how did those folk. who just probably more going to be because of whole of life stuff, more time poor, for example, so just time poor, or don't have the financial means to be able to access a bunch of other resources that we can draw on to give us perspective.

[00:30:19] DANIEL: Look, I think you've mentioned two things that I've heard. One is about Um, time poverty and the ability to make space to reflect deeply on your why, your goals, your purpose, strengths. And the other one is about the financial means. So let me separate them because I think they're different.

[00:30:52] DANIEL: What would you do? And everyone says like, I'd go for a walk on the beach, I'd think, I'd have a coffee with a friend, you know, play guitar. And then I say, who [00:31:00] here would spend two hours a week? Um, scrolling social media, everyone puts a hand up who would spend two hours on like some type of streaming service, which doesn't add a whole lot of value to their life.

[00:31:29] DANIEL: Spend half an hour walking, you know, and thinking or phone a friend and actually have a conversation, et cetera. And say, Hey, what do you think I'm good at? Or do a Clifton strength test. It takes like 40 minutes online. That's 30 bucks, 40 bucks.

[00:31:47] MATT: To listen to someone like you talk for two hours and put their hands up the kind of people who have that kind of time. Whereas there's the people who are even too busy or too like life is just pressing them so bad. They like pulling multiple shifts at the tin [00:32:00] can factory that they can't like they, I hear what you're saying.

[00:32:12] DANIEL: look, we can, we might disagree. I think in terms of time, everyone has two hours they could find if they really, really wanted it. Maybe in terms of self efficacy, skillset, the ability to find different paths to solve your problems, you know, to, to have that level of self skill for self awareness, you know, that I agree.

[00:32:44] MATT: try to be a working class hero here.

[00:32:46] DANIEL: Hey, um, and in, in terms of, in terms of the, uh, the money piece, I agree with you. Like not everyone can afford coaching and I, but I haven't had coaching and at one point I was lucky enough to work in the health sector and I actually got some free [00:33:00] coaching through Lyca. Yeah. Mental health plan. So there are some services you can access through different plans.

[00:33:10] MATT: Yes. And calling

[00:33:24] DANIEL: Uh, I had a friend who, who sat me down at some stage, this is during my physio reset, and said, let's pull out a piece of paper and write down all the options that you could come up with. And then just kept pushing me to come up with even more options until I found one or two ideas. And then I could work out maybe a next step.

[00:34:04] DANIEL: I did say I would share some of my reset experiences. And so my first big reset was I was about, uh, Early thirties, I had been a physiotherapist for over a decade, you know, it was a safe career. I was skilled at it, I was being paid pretty well and I'd moved into management at that stage. So, you know, things were going pretty well for me, but I had actually had a taste of the job above me and the higher I tended to go up in the health sector, the more I just did admin and meetings and that actually wasn't what I liked and it wasn't what I was good at either.

[00:34:53] DANIEL: We basically wanted to teach our colleagues how to deal with the email inbox because I had skills in that space and I'd learned some [00:35:00] stuff. And my friend and I, Tim Hines, were interested in helping others. And so we created an ABN and started to train people in email ninja. And I just started to. build some momentum.

[00:35:32] DANIEL: And, um, working super hard. I had young kids as well. You know, I was, I was doing everything in terms of set, working harder, doing longer hours, pumping out tasks. And I started to get breathless. Uh, so I started at first feeling breathless when I was standing in front of my team, kind of, let's say team meeting.

[00:36:13] DANIEL: But when I spoke to my GP, he heard about my three jobs and he said, I suspect this is stress and anxiety. And that was a really confronting thing for me to realize that actually. I think behind the scenes I knew I had to make a change and I was resisting it and I was working faster and harder to try to juggle more balls at the same time and actually what I needed to do was just accept that I was in a period of reset.

[00:37:00] DANIEL: He was a CEO of a large organization and he ended up in ICU. with significant health problems and has never had the same resilience to work at that level again. And I could see actually, if I just keep pushing harder and ignore my health, I'll end up in that same space. So thankfully I had that friend as an example.

[00:37:42] DANIEL: It's where I learned to start to pay attention to the aha moments, what I call kairos moments. And I also got another coach where I started to reflect on how do I care for my own health. It was a very formative period of time, but it took quite a long time. I didn't just jump. It took about six months, I think.

[00:38:24] DANIEL: So, and she basically said to me, Oh, look, I can see your heart's not in this. Like it used to be. I know that you've got a lot on, but we would like to keep you instead of working as much as you're working. If you want. You always have the option of having a one day a week job with us. That way you'll be, you know, you can do whatever you want basically.

[00:39:04] DANIEL: I had to quit my job and Actually to keep a simple easy permanent part time physio job would keep pulling me back into something I knew I should actually leave so I actually made a decision that day to resign from physio And quit. So that was one bigger heart moment. The other bigger heart moment was a week later.

[00:39:41] DANIEL: And, and he was right because I would have actually had to Earn enough money to pay for the mortgage and businesses don't go from nothing to something all of a sudden. And look, through those two aha moments, I realized I should quit my job but keep some casual physiotherapy work on the side. I started to do a small amount of paid work for my church.

[00:40:19] DANIEL: That's interesting. It looks very different. It looks very different and that came about through that deep reflective process and slowing down. So hopefully that's helpful to put a bit of meat on the bones in terms of what it could look like.

[00:40:38] MATT: Um, obviously like we kicked around a whole lot of ideas this episode, it's such a big and important topic that we really want to give this to you. So we've made this like a two parter. So next episode, we're really going to be diving into the habits, some really good habits, um, and concrete practices to help you regardless of whether you find yourself in a set or reset stage.

[00:41:16] DANIEL: And you may be in a period of set in Korea, but reset in your relationship or a period of reset in where you're living. Or set elsewhere. So, so think about it. Relationship resets. Yeah. So think, I mean, think about it in terms of your life. Yeah. You know, I just don't want to make it simple. Yeah. You may not be set in everything.

[00:41:37] MATT: Cause I mean, maybe, maybe also like you were on a stage where you thought you were somewhere before this episode, but now you started to question whether you actually are in. Yeah. And so on that as a kind of like a sneak preview, now it'd be great as usual, just take 30 seconds, 30 seconds to stop pause, take some time out to start considering and working out where you are set or reset across all of life.[00:42:00]

[00:43:04] DANIEL: Thank you very

[00:43:08] DANIEL: Yeah. I've been really looking forward to this conversation. I've been working with your team at Banjo's, uh, helping with productivity and helping shape some of the practices of your team. Yeah. You found some of that useful?

[00:43:20] GUEST: the email ninja.

[00:43:25] GUEST: Not at the moment, but I'm working towards it, I promise you. Well done. But the, but the methodology of that is really sound. Yeah, it's funny, isn't

[00:43:35] DANIEL: Yeah, exactly. Hey, so we're also talking about how to help people with a career. Reset, you and your team have worked with so many different people, migrants and people from different backgrounds and, and help them start their own jobs by being franchisees. So, um, John, tell me a few of the stories you shared with me previously.

[00:44:21] GUEST: They went up to Cairns virtually on, on holiday, they were like, this is amazing. We were just going to do this. They jumped into the business and, um, they have been thriving. So to the extent that he is looking, he's actively looking for a second site.

[00:44:42] DANIEL: Just three years, three years. Oh, that's pretty fast. Yeah. So I know, look, obviously you have an accent. You're a migrant yourself. I am. And I know you have a heart for supporting people who come from, you know, overseas. Yeah. Are there any stories of migrants who have started stores successfully?

[00:44:59] GUEST: There's [00:45:00] um, another franchisee of ours, um, in fact, we've just opened up his fourth store. Okay. He's a bit

[00:45:08] GUEST: done it. He opened up his first one in 2020. Yeah. And in a couple of months time, he's gonna be opening up. So he, as a student, he came to Australia, he studied in Australia, he's from Pakistan.

[00:45:44] DANIEL: but he just was hardworking.

[00:45:48] GUEST: Yeah. And he was ready to get his hands dirty. What type of characteristics would you say you need to start a store? So you need a bit of tenacity. Um, but, uh, you [00:46:00] don't have to have business skills as such. There's a lot of our franchisees, which have worked themselves up through the system as bakers, but then they go into the self raising program and we teach them that, and then they become business people.

[00:46:31] DANIEL: Okay. So I'm interested in knowing how to make donuts. I dunno about the tax, but, uh, ,

[00:46:40] GUEST: I think

[00:47:04] GUEST: That's a good question. Look, I went through a career reset myself. I went, I worked in advertising in my earlier career, and I decided to go and study further and cross over into strategy and marketing, which is the corporate side. And the best thing I did was to literally just Take the jump, just, just have a bit of faith and just take that leap.

[00:47:51] DANIEL: So just take the leap. Look, that is great advice. I think that's great life advice as well, because once you've leapt, you've got no other choice but to fly.

[00:48:10] GUEST: And thanks for everything that you have done for us and our teams as well. Actually, you, it's, uh, the fact that you have.

[00:48:25] DANIEL: That's a good thing. I appreciate it. Thanks, Gustav.

[00:48:52] DANIEL: So if you're interested in the set and reset framework and the activities that I outline in my book, Space Maker, you can download the chapter for free [00:49:00] plus a PDF to help you shape your life plan at spacemakers. au forward slash life plan. That's spacemakers. au forward slash life plan. We also have A brand new e learning course, Priority Samurai.

[00:49:46] DANIEL: So that's where you can find us. Online for just over an hour of fortnight in a group of six people We do it over a period of time and it's a great way to connect with other Like minded people who are going through a career reset and for us to guide you through a very difficult time [00:50:00] targeted specific framework that we've developed.

[00:50:13] MATT: coaching and maybe on that, like in that conversation, if you like long walks in the beach and journaling and having coaches, then maybe it's referenced all that stuff.

[00:50:27] DANIEL: I'm out of work. Actually, one last. resource. I know we're giving you lots of different ideas, but I have a heap of videos on YouTube about career reset, uh, about way power, about Karas moments, all the kind of different concepts we've talked about.

[00:50:52] MATT: Okay. So next week, as we said, we're going to be looking at some really concrete, practical actions and habits. And if you're the kind of person who's come across, you know, [00:51:00] Read a bunch of books or listen to podcasters and stuff on this subject.

[00:51:18] MATT: Sounds strange. I know. Actively doing nothing. That can help us out when it comes to a career slash relationship slash whole world changes.

[00:51:35] PROMO V/O: The Space Makers with Daniel Sih and Matt Bain.

[00:51:41] DANIEL: who are expanding across Australia and looking for new franchisees. If you're hard working and business savvy, visit franchise. banjos. com. au and save 10 percent on franchise fees by mentioning Spacemakers.

[00:52:05] PROMO V/O: It's our gift to you. Visit spacemakers. au forward slash s2 and make space.