Ever looked at your baby mid-meltdown and thought, “If only you could tell me what you need?” You’re not alone.

In this week’s episode of The Science of Motherhood, Dr Renee White speaks with Megan Mahon, an early childhood intervention teacher, Auslan interpreter and founder of Baby Sign. More importantly, she’s a mum of two who knows what it’s like to want more connection, more calm and fewer communication breakdowns with your little one.

Together, they chat about how baby sign language can ease frustration, support speech and give you a simple, gentle way to bond with your bub even before the words come.

This isn’t about perfection or doing all the things. It’s about giving mums practical tools that actually help in those real-life moments – the ones with crumbs on the floor and a toddler on your hip.

You’ll hear about:

• What baby sign language actually is, and why it’s easier than you think
• When and how to start using signs with your baby or toddler
• Why signing doesn’t delay speech (in fact, it can support it)
• The signs Megan recommends starting with no overwhelm, just simple wins
• How signing can bring more calm and confidence to your day

Resources and Links

📲 Want to chat more about this? Connect with Renee on Instagram: @fillyourcup_

🌐 Want to learn more about Dr Renee White and explore Fill Your Cup Doula services

🌐 Want to grab our free Quickie Postpartum Planning Guide

🍪If you want to gobble up our famous Chocolate + Goji lactation cookies, look no further!

💬 Want to learn more about Megan’s work? Visit www.babysign.com.au

Follow Megan on Instagram: @babysignau

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Because every mum deserves to feel heard even before her baby can say a word. 💛

Disclaimer: The information on this podcast presented by the Fill Your Cup is not a substitute for independent professional advice.

Nothing contained in this podcast is intended to be used as medical advice and it is not intended to be used to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease, nor should it be used for therapeutic purposes or as a substitute for your own health professional's advice.

[00:00:27] Dr Renee White: I'm Dr. Renee White, and this is the Science of Motherhood. Hello and welcome to episode 180. I am your host, Dr. Renee White. Thank you so much for joining me today. We have got a very interesting episode today. I definitely learned a lot about this. It's something that when the guest first approached me about coming on the podcast, I thought, Ooh, very, very interesting.

[00:02:03] Dr Renee White: If you're thinking about how are we gonna have those conversations with our toddler about becoming a big brother or a big sister, and how can we prepare for a successful feeding journey, then you probably probably need our quickie postpartum planning guide, which we have on our website, ifillyourcup.com, head over to the tab, Freebies and Guides, and you can download our postpartum guide there.

[00:03:31] Dr Renee White: As I said, she's the founder of Baby Sign. She started that in 2022 to support families, to have better communication with their little people and set them up for success. So in today's episode, we are going to be talking about baby signing, which as I said in the beginning, I was like, I feel like I did this intuitively. I didn't realise this was like a such a formal thing, but it totally is and Meg walks us through essentially, what is baby signing? When can you start baby signing, what the benefits are for both your children and yourself? And then we're gonna debunk a few myths along the way and how to set yourself up.

[00:05:09] Dr Renee White: Hello and welcome to the podcast. Meg, how are you?

[00:05:15] Dr Renee White: I am spectacular. It's actually really nice weather today in Hobart, which is unusual, but maybe not because we get, I feel like we get our weather late than everyone else, but yes, I'm almost like thinking, I need to take this jumper off already. I'm gonna do my sleeves up. Everyone would've heard from the introduction that we are gonna be talking about baby signing. Now I have to, full disclosure, full disclosure. Thanks. You emailed me about this and I was like. What is baby signing like, I was like, is that, is that just us kind of doing like little symbol type things?

[00:05:54] Dr Renee White: You know, like eat, like, you know, hands to the mouth type thing. Yeah. And I thought this is very interesting. This is like a whole realm that I am totally not aware of. Just so we can kind of get off on a good foundation. Can you tell the listeners a little bit more about your background and I guess

[00:06:14] Dr Renee White: How you got into baby signing?

[00:06:29] Dr Renee White: mm-hmm.

[00:07:24] Megan Mahon: So through the Masters in particular, I discovered how amazingly beneficial signing is for brain development and language development and how it just kind of all meshes in together. So to, I guess to answer that original question of, well, what is baby signing it's using, so in Australia we use Australian sign language.

[00:07:47] Megan Mahon: So baby sign is borrowing signs from Auslan and using them with speech, so to help them communicate before they can talk, because for those first 18 months, two years, for some children, they're not able to communicate effectively with their words. But adding signing means that they can actually communicate with their parents and carers really effectively.

[00:08:45] Megan Mahon: Yeah.

[00:09:04] Megan Mahon: So I guess it depends on where you are when you learn about it.

[00:09:09] Megan Mahon: So, and I'll give you a few examples of the impact that it has at different stages of development and how it can impact on kids.

[00:09:16] Megan Mahon: I think some examples from a playgroup course that I'm running

[00:09:19] Megan Mahon: And one of the families, mum is an OT and she had some basic, um, so occupational therapist and she had some basic signs before she had her child.

[00:09:30] Megan Mahon: And she started signing from weeks old.

[00:09:33] Megan Mahon: Weeks old like three or four weeks they started signing like once you get that kind of you know eye contact and recognition and engagement they started signing. Bub is now five months old and is signing milk when she's hungry.

[00:09:49] Megan Mahon: So, so she doesn't cry. She's not a grizzly baby or anything like that. She just goes, ah, I want milk now and she'll sign milk and like, okay can action that dad's gr happy 'cause he knows what that means and he can be like, here, go, go back to mum. And obviously it, it just makes it a little bit of a calmer household when that happens.

[00:10:09] Megan Mahon: And, but it's a long game, you know, they've had to wait four months of just persistently signing in hope that it will, you know, happen and it has five months fam like, you know, I've got other babies. You know, at seven months old, they're in the pram signing their version of finished because they don't wanna be in the pram and they're like, ah, signing finished, because they wanna get out of the pram at seven months old.

[00:10:35] Megan Mahon: Yeah. So it's just the earlier the better from a language perspective, the earlier the better.

[00:10:42] Megan Mahon: But for families that kind of discover it that little bit later, what tends to happen is they go, oh, okay, we're gonna start signing and there's just this explosion of language and explosion of signing with those sort of slightly older babies at about 10 months old.

[00:10:59] Megan Mahon: They just all of a sudden go from not being able to communicate except through crying to having a dozen signs within you know, weeks or months, like it just happens. And then even toddlers, you know, there's a huge benefit for toddlers as well. I'm sure you would remember with your daughter, those like cute, that sort of 18 months to two and a half years where they can't really talk properly you can understand them. Yeah. But there's some words that you are like, I don't, I, I don't know what you are saying. Yeah. You're saying these sounds, but, so adding signs for toddlers is really helpful because it clarifies those early attempts at speech. Mm. Which is always lovely.

[00:12:01] Megan Mahon: for everyone

[00:12:58] Megan Mahon: Yeah. Oh it is. And it's. Again, without wanting to sound too cliche about it, it's so empowering for them as well. Yes. Oh, they just, they're just like, well, I can do this. I can communicate. I, and, and we know in language development, what happens is that, and again, you would know this from your own experience with kids, is that their level of understanding far exceeds what they're actually able to say. Yes. Long time.

[00:14:01] Megan Mahon: Yeah. And now watching it in other families, I'm like, oh good. Everyone's kind of like, you get it now. Yeah. Like you're seeing and you're experiencing it and it's, it's, yeah. It's really lovely to see the impact it's having on. The families.

[00:14:37] Megan Mahon: Well, there hasn't been robust research around it, I'll be honest about that. But some of the preliminary research that they have done has shown things like improved social emotional skills and learning, which links into that, like you were saying before, it's so frustrating for these little people to not be able to communicate when they can communicate and they can understand some of the language that's going on. It helps them with their social emotional development. Mm-hmm. So I'll give an, an example of that would be, so if a child doesn't understand what sad means, because they don't understand that word. Yeah. Then they can't really identify and then they can't regulate themselves.

[00:16:13] Dr Renee White: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:47] Dr Renee White: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:17:40] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:17:43] Dr Renee White: I I, that is such a great point because I find that, you know, when I am speaking with friends when I am helping out, you know, as a doula in people's houses, often the non birthing parent mm-hmm. As you say, doesn't, doesn't have that instinctive like nature of like, and, and this is hardwiring for us as mothers. Like we know tones and pitch mm-hmm. And things like that. And we're like. Yep. That's a hungry cry or, or someone's hurt or, you know, that type of thing. Yeah, and I, I still remember my daughter, she would've been like maybe seven weeks old and in the bassinet next to me, I had my eyes closed in the middle of the night and I was like.

[00:19:04] Megan Mahon: I just did stop questioning my authority.

[00:19:47] Megan Mahon: adult.

[00:20:04] Megan Mahon: Yeah, it, it's really, it's really, really helpful and I think the families that both parents kind of get on board and they both learn and they both kind of contribute. Those are the families that I see have the most success with their, with implementing signing in the home as well. And there's other fun things I guess that come along with it. You know, our family is, I'm a fluent Auslan interpreter, so obviously I can draw on signs all the time, and my mother-in-law is actually profoundly deaf, so she has bilateral cochlear implants, but she can sign and we sign frequently. So my husband has had exposure to sign language as well.

[00:21:12] Dr Renee White: That is so cool.

[00:21:20] Dr Renee White: Meg, I have to ask you, 'cause I don't think I'm gonna be the only one thinking about this, but was it serendipitous that you ended up marrying someone who is a family member with profoundly deaf? Like,

[00:21:32] Dr Renee White: were you, were you moving in the same circle? Like what were, and you could tell me like, mind your business Renee. We'll cut that outta the podcast. But like, that's interesting, don't you think?

[00:21:57] Dr Renee White: I met, I met my husband online. I'm the first person to be like, yeah.

[00:22:03] Dr Renee White: I dunno. I had, I, I was doing a PhD. I did not have time to be scouting. I was too tired. I was like, you want me to go to a bar or a nightclub? I'm like, not interested.

[00:22:57] Megan Mahon: Actually one of her really good friends, I had interpreted for him many, many, many times. You know, he, he was doing TAFE courses and different things, so I was interpreting for him. So we did kind of, we had people that we knew, but that's not how Sean and I met. It was just

[00:23:15] Megan Mahon: Pure coincidence. Yeah. Okay, good.

[00:23:20] Megan Mahon: welcome.

[00:23:47] Megan Mahon: So I, in terms of like the first signs to do or?

[00:23:54] Megan Mahon: what are we talking about?

[00:23:58] Megan Mahon: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:02] Megan Mahon: Well, yes. I'll start with the right and the wrong way. Yeah, because the baby signing is huge in America.

[00:24:12] Megan Mahon: And it has been for a long time. If anyone's ever heard of Miss Rachel, you know yeah, internet sensation. She really advocates and promotes baby signing because of its amazing benefits, and she's amazing. Whether you like her or not, she's actually a really incredible human being and but the difficulty there is that she uses American Sign Language.

[00:24:35] Megan Mahon: and all over the world there are different sign languages. It, regardless of whether they're English speaking countries or not, there are different sign languages all over the world.

[00:24:44] Megan Mahon: So. Can I nerd out on that?

[00:24:52] Megan Mahon: right. Okay. Um, so historically speaking, what happened was in Europe there were two different deaf schools. There was one in England and there was one in France, and this is the 18 hundreds. Mm-hmm. And then from there they, they kind of spread out across the world. So American Sign language is more closely related in terms of languages to French sign language than it is English sign language. Okay. Sorry British sign language. Yeah. So, and even like Irish sign language is completely different. British sign language, Australian sign language, American Sign Language and New Zealand sign language are all different.

[00:25:33] Megan Mahon: Yeah. So when people are looking for resources online, um, often they'll just Google search baby sign language. Yeah. Um, and the first one will be American Sign Language, because that's where a lot of the resources are. Okay. So you know that that's probably the biggest cautionary tale is, you know, do a bit of research, make sure it's Australian sign language. Mm-hmm. Because we are here. Mm-hmm. And that's, you know, it's been a transferable skill, all these sorts of things. And in terms of learning, you know, there's, I, I'd probably recommend starting slow. Depends on the age of your children. Mm-hmm. But you know, just pick three or four or five signs, whatever you're comfortable with, and just build that habit because I think that's often the hardest thing for parents is to build the habit.

[00:26:45] Dr Renee White: Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna ask,

[00:27:29] Dr Renee White: that would be a game changer.

[00:27:31] Dr Renee White: Honestly.

[00:27:32] Dr Renee White: Oh my goodness. Okay, cool. Now I have to, I have to address the elephant in the room, which is, for some people there are, you know, kind of comments out there or theories or myths and I'd love for you to like debunk if you want to. Some people might suggest that signing would delay a baby's speech. Yeah. Is there any truth to that whatsoever?

[00:28:44] Megan Mahon: So yeah, there's there's no foundation for that whatsoever. And when you look at how signing actually works, so what it does is babies naturally use, or I shouldn't say babies, I'm gonna use pre-verbal children. Yeah. Um, just to kind of broaden that a little bit. Yeah. Before a child can speak, they naturally use gesture. Like I talk with my hands all the time. Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. Like we all do it, but babies naturally use it, particularly that sort of nine to 13 months. Mm-hmm. We see a lot of gesture naturally. So they reaching their arms up when they want to be picked up.

[00:29:33] Megan Mahon: Yeah.

[00:29:35] Megan Mahon: Come to me. Yeah. Or, or they'll reach out their hand and Yeah.

[00:29:41] Megan Mahon: Yeah, exactly. When they want something. So gestures are a really important and really natural part of language development, because when children, like we were saying before, they understand a lot, but they can't act, they can't speak yet. Mm. So. They use gesture to communicate what they're thinking and what baby signing or keyword signing does is just kind of gives them more of what's there naturally anyway. Mm-hmm. Like a a, a child doesn't know the difference between a natural gesture of reaching their hands up and, you know, a formal sign from a different language.

[00:31:00] Megan Mahon: Yeah. So they do it again and they do it again, and they do it again, and then they're interacting more. And then the more communication exchanges that a child has, the more opportunity they have to learn more language. Yeah. And that's not just sign, it's going to be spoken language and all these sorts of things. And what will eventually happen is they'll get to a point where they want to communicate more than they're capable of. Mm-hmm. Through sign. Mm-hmm. But they're motivated and they're confident communicators, so they will speak.

[00:31:34] Megan Mahon: And I think going back to that original point of, you know, late talkers, maybe there are cases of children who did talk late because of signing, but it's difficult to say whether that was because of the sign, but whether they would've been late talkers. Yeah. Anyway, they just would've been really frustrated, late talkers because they had no way of communicating.

[00:31:56] Megan Mahon: So, yeah, and, and it's, yeah. In terms of the science behind you know using baby sign, there's no, no indication that it, it delays speech at all. In fact, it just, a lot of the research is showing that it improves, you know, kids that learn sign have larger vocabularies at three and they have, you know, more effective communication. Even anecdotally from the families that I've worked with in the last couple of years, um, you know, I've bumped into them. When their child's two and you're having a conversation with a 2-year-old.

[00:32:32] Megan Mahon: Because they've got this, you know, this solid language base. Yeah. And it's, it's always lovely.

[00:32:43] Megan Mahon: Not that I can think of at the top of my head. Boop, pause. Was there something specific that you were

[00:32:54] Megan Mahon: to bust any myth

[00:33:18] Megan Mahon: Not really, I think, but

[00:33:22] Megan Mahon: Yeah. I think a lot of the time both families are on board or, and this is terrible, just a, a really sort of absent dad. Okay. Or like, like that's the only time, like Yeah. When it's, and it's not so much that they care or don't care, it's just that that's kind of how the role that that person has in the family isn't actively participating. But to this point, I haven't. And so what, since 2022 was when I started teaching Baby Sign and I've taught dozens of families since then and I've taught hundreds of children signing over the years, and it's, in the last couple of years, it's been dozens of families keyword signing. I haven't had, I've. Only ever had positive feedback from 'em. Yeah. Yeah. My kids are doing really well. You know, we're loving it. It's so helpful. I've not had one person come back to me. Well, that was a waste of my time.

[00:34:15] Megan Mahon: It hasn't happened. Like the families that do participate in it. See benefit and Yeah, I, I've heard anecdotally stories like you were saying, of children who've had delayed speech, but it's sort of like, well, those families probably would've had a late talker anyway. Mm-hmm. And they just would've been really frustrated.

[00:34:33] Megan Mahon: But no otherwise. The only other barrier, I guess, is around this definition between like Auslan or Australian sign language and baby signing and keyword signing, which is sort of a political conversation with the deaf community around, you know, okay, taking our language and this sort of stuff. That's a whole other conversation.

[00:35:29] Megan Mahon: Yeah. Yeah. So definitely consistency. So building that habit around signing every day. Um, and I think that when it comes to language development, more is more, um, it's not that less is more, more is more. So the more language that you can expose your children to, the better they are going to be and I think actually one of the biggest misconceptions that parents have in general about language development is that kids aren't very clever because they can't talk yet.

[00:36:03] Megan Mahon: A hundred percent children

[00:36:06] Megan Mahon: That's right.

[00:36:08] Megan Mahon: Yeah. And, and I, like I say, I say this all the time, and it might be a bit obscure, but like human babies are really, really clever. Yes. Just, they're so clever. They're so capable. And we underestimate all the time, like I know I've done it with my children, underestimated actually how capable they are, how much they know, how much they understand. So, don't hold back because you think that they're not going to understand mm-hmm. Or think that they're not going to get it. Mm-hmm. You know, it's teach them the signs for not just the, the routine things. I think that's something that a lot of families do. They go, okay, I'm gonna teach them the sign for milk more, eat and drink.

[00:37:34] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:38:20] Dr Renee White: Oh my gosh.

[00:38:32] Dr Renee White: did you get that on film?

[00:38:44] Dr Renee White: Oh my God.

[00:38:56] Dr Renee White: yes.

[00:38:58] Dr Renee White: Yeah I would've been like Okay, sure.

[00:39:09] Dr Renee White: Oh my goodness. Do you find, um, so you've got two children?

[00:39:14] Dr Renee White: Do you find that they sign to one another?

[00:39:18] Dr Renee White: maybe not yet.

[00:39:27] Dr Renee White: Yeah.

[00:39:33] Dr Renee White: oh my God, that's so cute.

[00:39:49] Dr Renee White: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:40:23] Dr Renee White: That's so, so clever.

[00:40:26] Dr Renee White: Hey Meg, we are, I'm mindful of time, so, mm-hmm. I was gonna jump into our rapid fire before we do, and there'll be time to talk about your course online and everything. But was there anything else that you wanted to add about Baby Sign before we dive into that?

[00:40:52] Dr Renee White: oh God. Yeah.

[00:41:07] Dr Renee White: yes. Yeah. That's a, yeah. That's what I think is so beneficial. Like that investment, which appears to be like quite a small investment. Yeah. You know, in terms of you know, no one's asking you to like, shell out a huge chunk of cash or

[00:41:23] Dr Renee White: You know, take your whole family anywhere to do something. Like, it seems like a very small investment for like huge dividends. Yeah. Particularly in those toddler years and if anyone is listening and you are not a toddler stage yet.

[00:41:38] Dr Renee White: It's coming.

[00:41:40] Dr Renee White: It's, it's, it's not fairy floss and lollipops, but there are tools that you could definitely implement now to kind of, as you say, set yourself up for Yeah, a bit of a smoother transition for all of you. Like there's nothing worse than a frustrated explosive toddler, I feel.

[00:42:42] Megan Mahon: So I guess the other thing that I see it as, you know, with this, really sad trend towards more children having speech and language delays. Mm-hmm. I see baby signing as kind of protective against that. So if you can implement these things early, then you can prevent that from happening and I don't mean to use that as like a fear, fear,

[00:43:07] Megan Mahon: Yeah, like we see, we're seeing this trend of, you know, if anybody's in the industry, you know, speech therapists have two year wait lists. Like it's ridiculous in Melbourne and, and people in Regional Victoria, they may never be seen by a speech therapist. You know, they, it's just, it's a really concerning, I guess, in terms of that trajectory for our kids at the moment. And yeah, so I guess it's something, like you said, it's really simple. It's really easy. It's not a huge investment. Once you build that habit, it comes so easily to you. Yeah. And it's something that, yeah, it protects against that because if you can support your child to have better communication, better communication leads to better language and better language leads to better speech.

[00:43:55] Megan Mahon: Like, it's just kind of the, the flow on effect that it has.

[00:44:09] Megan Mahon: Start with a couple of signs if you're in that, you know, that really intense newborn stage or like just those first six to 12 months of motherhood is, it's a lot. Yeah. There's a lot going on. So just start with three signs and just do those consistently. And then when you're feeling that you've got the cognitive function to do more, then do that. Yeah. You know, don't put too much pressure on yourself. Just do your best and, and, and just start with, you know, some basic, easy to implement signs and, and it will get easier.

[00:45:07] Megan Mahon: Look, I, I have a background of meditation. Mm-hmm. So I don't know if you've ever heard of the Vipassana meditation?

[00:45:17] Megan Mahon: No. Okay. That you can do some research after. So it's a, an ancient Buddhist meditation practice, and they have this concept of, impermanence

[00:45:26] Megan Mahon: Nothing in this world is permanent, if that's the only thing that's guaranteed is change. Yeah, change is inevitable. So I guess for those early months, like when it feels so intense and like, you know, you're sleep deprived and it's never going to end, it will end.

[00:45:42] Megan Mahon: Everything is impermanent. This intensity will change. So I guess I just drew on that a lot, was just like being mindful, calming my body down and, and just remembering that nothing, nothing is forever.

[00:45:56] Megan Mahon: Yeah, that's right. That's right.

[00:46:13] Megan Mahon: A sippy cup with water.

[00:46:18] Megan Mahon: That's not for me. No. No. We, we co-sleep with, um, with Remy, our 2-year-old. Yeah. And he's just, he's a thirsty kid. He always wake up in the middle of the night asking for a drink. So we have a so sippy cup on the bedside table.

[00:46:33] Megan Mahon: Other than a light, that's literally all I have on the bedside table.

[00:46:56] Megan Mahon: Thank you

[00:47:02] Megan Mahon: Yeah, sure. So, um, there's multiple options for people in Melbourne, particularly the northern suburbs of Melbourne. Um, I've got a weekly playgroup so you can come along with your baby. Outside of that, there is an on, I have an online course. Mm-hmm. So it's recently updated, seven weeks. Lots of information, more in depth stuff like we're talking about here, how to support literacy in those early days and just kind of, you know, support your child to to be. You know, prepared for communication essentially. Yeah. And then I also have a little book, wrote a book called Tiny Hands, Big Words, Everyday Signs for Australian Babies, and that's available on my website.

[00:47:50] Megan Mahon: Yeah.

[00:48:02] Megan Mahon: Thank you.

[00:48:11] Megan Mahon: Ah, hopefully. Yeah. That's great. You're not gonna go back for number two.

[00:48:34] Megan Mahon: every few years you're getting another cat. You're doing amazing.

[00:48:57] Megan Mahon: That's great. There's always ways to persuade them, isn't it?

[00:49:14] Dr Renee White: Yeah. So, yeah.

[00:49:17] Dr Renee White: Excellent. Well, everyone, we will speak to you and next week, uh, with our check in Tuesday episode. All right, thanks, Meg. If you loved this episode, please hit the subscribe button and leave a review. If you know someone out there who would also love to listen to this episode, please hit the share button so they can benefit from it as well.