The focal point of this podcast episode centers on the concept of leadership and the qualities that embodies determination and resilience in the face of adversity. Our esteemed guest, Dr Dave Jones, engages in a profound discussion on the lessons he has learned in the sports, business, and faith worlds. Ultimately, we explore the complexities of motivation, underscoring the necessity of aligning one's actions with a higher calling to foster resilience in the face of life's inevitable trials.

Takeaways:

• Understanding one's toxic motivators, such as fear and pride, is essential for developing mental toughness and maintaining a clear vision in challenging circumstances.
• The R7 process introduces a structured approach to achieving one's destiny by clarifying vision, developing strategy, and emphasizing the importance of prayer and action.
• Mental toughness is cultivated through awareness of one's emotional state and the effective management of stress and anxiety in daily life.
• The importance of community support is emphasized, as individuals are encouraged to seek assistance and share their challenges with others during difficult times.

Foreign.

So excited to be back with our friend Dick Foth on a session of Back Channel with foe.

And then we're going to jump into our interview with Dr. Dave Jones on M is Good.

Dick, welcome back to the podcast.

Thanks a million.

I delight in being with you, my friend.

It's been fun.

It is and it continues to be fun.

Dick, got two questions.

Questions for you.

As the is the common way when you think of grit, who and what do you think of?

I think of the greatest generation.

I think of my mother.

Taft was president.

There are a thousand miles of paved roads in the United States.

The annual income per capita on average was $945.

All of that and when she's four, you know, the great war to end all war starts.

And then when she's seven, you have the pandemic or epidemic of Spanish flu.

When she's 19, the stock market crashes.

They go into all the years of the Great Depression.

Then you get the Second World War.

And she was more than a survivor.

I think she was a victor.

And it's interesting because there are studies have been done what, what employers like or in people.

And the word they use is grit.

You know, there's this, there's this acronym or this acrostic that people have come up with.

It goes, grit is guts, Resilience, intensity, tenacity.

When, when I think Mary of Mary, the mother of Jesus, I think of grit.

There's something about that when, when, when somebody won't quit.

Whatever the reasons, I have a. I spoke at a church on the east coast years ago, it's got to be 40 years ago.

And I met the father in law of the pastor, who happened to be Jewish, who was in Hungary, in Budapest when The Nazis came in 44, and he got put in a concentration camp.

And he said, my determination was that if nobody else got out of this place, I was going to get out of this place.

I said, did you have to wear one of those yellow stars?

And he grinned at me, said, oh, no, I was never good enough to get a yellow star.

He escaped a couple of times they caught him, but he survived.

Just one thing.

And one of the teachers there, a fellow named Frank Boyd, my mother's a Boyd, but they're not connected.

Oftentimes shared this song with him.

It's a song called Steadily Plod.

And it Goes like this.

Steadily plod Steadily plod All along life's way Zeal may fire and faith inspire but plod will win the day.

Wow.

There.

There's something about that.

Yeah.

That.

That when.

When I look at my.

My mother's life in particular, she went through a lot of stuff and was still singing songs at the end.

Wow.

Wow.

I've never heard that.

I've never heard that hymn.

But that's one.

One to write down.

One to write down for sure.

Dick.

The second question the same person sent in is, how do you think grit can be practiced in ministry?

I think you always.

You all.

We don't know what's coming next.

You know, I. I've often said life is what happens when you expected something else.

Right.

Yeah.

And I think understanding that as a person of faith, you are playing the long game and you're not playing for the crowd.

My greatest.

One of my greatest weaknesses, and I don't like to say this because going around the world is that historically I have liked to be liked.

I don't get up and speak at a conference, say, boy, I hope I bomb here.

Hope the truth falls six inches from my mouth.

You know, that sort of thing.

There's something about understanding that you're playing for the coach, not for the crowd, that helps move the ball down the field, to use that metaphor.

Sarah Groves, who, by the way, went to Evangel University back in the day, wrote a song called An Audience of One, and there's something about that that really works.

Second thing I think is that we.

We toss out the phrase one day at a time.

But I don't, you know, no matter what age you are, if you're 16 or 86, you don't know how many days you have.

So that.

That business about take it day by day and understand life may be a long game, but it comes in short pieces.

And I brought on board a retired missionary by the name of Kenny Short.

Kenny Short had been in Borneo Pre World War II, maybe post World War II.

And he had great stories, but I used to call him into my office when I was really struggling and say, kenny, tell me a story.

Tell me something, God did.

You know, when you're in Borneo, which is now Indonesia, I believe, But.

But he had a saying.

He.

He had a saying about life and about money raising.

Those missionaries have to go out and itinerate and get dollars by the yard.

It's hard by the inch, it's a cinch.

So, yeah, for sure.

Scripture verse for the day.

There you go.

By yard it's hard.

By an inch, it's a cinch.

There you go.

Good deal, Dick.

Always enjoy our time on Back Channel with folks.

When to go ahead and jump into our interview with Dr. Dave Jones on M is good.

Well, there's no time better than now, so here we go.

Greetings and welcome back to the Clarity podcast.

So excited to be here today with a new friend of the podcast, Dave.

Welcome to the podcast.

Thanks, man.

Thanks for having me on.

Dave.

One of the joys of being a podcast host is I get to spend time researching and reading and learning about somebody, but the listeners don't have that, that opportunity just yet.

So would you be willing to share a little bit about yourself before we jump into our conversation today?

Sure.

I. I grew up in a small town in northwest Pennsylvania called Meadville, Pennsylvania.

Looking back on it, that town was very depressed growing up.

I. I don't know, man.

Something inside of me just knew that I wanted something more out of life because probably something God put inside of me.

I didn't really know, obviously, what I was doing, but I figured out that if I scored, I played, you know, sports growing up, and I figured out that if I scored a bunch of goals, that I would get attention.

And so I figured out how to score goals, whether it was soccer or hockey.

And so I just kind of did that.

I got really good at hockey and won a couple state championships and, and then went on to play in Ottawa and Cleveland.

And then I, I played four years in Germany.

Wow.

And so at some point in that journey, I figured out that I wasn't going to be in the NHL, that I had to, you know, do something different.

And it was really a tragedy that happened when I was playing for Cleveland.

I got a slap shot in the face, broke my nose in three different directions, deviated septum, cut my, cut the nerves from my teeth in my mouth.

And it was at that moment I prayed that, you know, the Lord would intervene in my life because what I was doing wasn't working.

Working.

Wow.

Yeah.

And so, so that's where things really started to change.

That seed was really there.

And.

Yeah.

And so.

Well, I'll just stop there.

So, so that's, that's a little bit of the journey.

What amazing testimony.

And so.

And so.

Yeah.

But my next question is, so how does that, how did that lead to where you're at today and what you're, you're, you're, you're encouraging people today.

Could you share a little bit about that?

Yeah.

So.

So, yeah.

So I. I retired from hockey, and then I came home and.

And again, I was feeling useless, and.

And so I prayed another prayer.

You know, God, would you.

Would you use me?

And I started this company.

That's when I started the company.

It was marketing Ministries.

Now it's M is Good.

And.

To work with other Christian men and women of God that have a vision from the Lord.

Yeah, I think it's probably a rebound from, you know, where I was at, like, because I didn't have a vision, didn't know what I was doing, and I wasn't helpful, so I wanted to be super helpful.

Yeah.

And so, you know, it's been 25 years now of M is good.

And so, you know, I praise God every day.

In fact, you asked me today, how am I doing?

I said, man, I'm just living the dream.

I get the be on the podcast and talk about Jesus and God and, you know, in other men and women of God throughout.

Throughout the world every day.

Yeah, for sure.

So what are some lessons you learned being a professional athlete, playing hockey that.

That are helping you in this season of your life?

Yeah, so that's a great question.

You know, I'm.

I'm actually this week releasing my third book.

Okay.

And it's called Plan the win, how to manage your fear, lust, anger, pride, while building your Christian organization.

And so one of the big lessons that I'm really just reflecting on the last 25 years of running this agency is that I allowed the adversary to dictate where I was going.

Wow.

And I don't think it was conscious.

It's definitely subconscious.

So, you know, there's.

There's four toxic motivators that I believe motivated me, and those toxic motivators are what I call flap.

So fear, lust, anger, and pride.

And so we all have two of those that are.

That are motivating us every single day.

So I look at it like stress, stress and anxiety.

You don't get rid of stress and anxiety.

You manage it.

You find ways to.

To, you know, to alleviate that stress and anxiety.

When it builds up and, you know subconsciously or consciously that this is going to be a stressful situation, you prepare yourself.

I kind of look at that the same way with your flat.

You Know, there's times where we're fearful, and we have to say, I'm fearful, you know, and that, you know, I need some faith.

And if I can't.

If I.

If I don't have enough faith.

Aaron, can I have some of your faith?

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

And can you help me in this situation?

And.

And then we can go down the line with lust, you know, with.

I'm in a lustful situation, you know, like, I.

You know, I think most people think that lust is taboo.

At least it is for me, you know, but.

And we also think about sexual lust or pornography.

I think lust comes in many different forms.

You know, we lust for people, we lust for power, we lust for possessions, we lust for bigger bank accounts, bigger boats, multiple houses, you know, that kind of thing.

And so, you know, and so we get into situations where, you know, it's not about giving and it's not about love.

It's about lust.

And I think that if you're able to identify your flap and say, okay, Satan.

Okay, adversary, I see you.

You're.

You're not gonna.

You're not gonna benefit here.

You know, get behind me.

Jesus is the way.

My vision for the Lord is the future.

Wow.

And then.

So the.

So fear, lust.

What were the.

The last two.

Yeah.

So anger.

Okay.

So anger is.

Is a good one that we all get angry.

You know, anger kind of stems from the idea that I have this expectation, and that expectation gets blocked by something, and so I get angry.

And so, you know, when we forgive and we have patience, you know, that's the antidote to anger.

And then pride.

Pride is the one that's kind of the.

To me, it's the most hidden but also the most prevalent in our life.

So.

And the Bible talks about the pride coming before the fall.

Sure.

And so, you know, pride is.

Is one of those areas where we have to show humility and being humble before the Lord and humble ourselves in the situation, whatever it may be.

You know, this is my 25th year of marketing in the Christian space, and I think about being humble every day and asking questions and learning, you know, with a growth mindset versus a fixed mindset every day, you know, where I could say, hey, this is the way it goes.

This is what we've seen that's worked in the past versus, you know, what do you think?

You know, how is this going for you?

You know, and getting your feelings and getting your expectations out and helping that individual organizational grow with humility.

Good word.

Good word.

Sports performance psychology.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm about 400 episodes in.

You're the first person that I've had on the podcast with background and experience in sports performance psychology.

And probably in my opinion, I'm big athletics guy.

I think it's probably one of the last great frontiers.

You know, I think physically we've done so much to hone our body, but I think the mental side of it is, is, is huge.

And so how have you applied that into what you're doing in the business world and then also applications into your end, your, your faith and your love for Christ.

Yeah.

What sport do you play or.

Yeah, I used to play.

I used to play, I was basketball as a point guard.

I ran, ran cross country, played basketball, football and played baseball.

Yeah.

Okay.

Are you a golfer now?

Unfortunately, I'm not much at all now I am, I'm a go to the gym and walk my dog guy.

So this, this, this 50 year old bodies wore out.

So for too much of impact.

But anyway, but I love sports, love the West Virginia Mountaineers, love to follow basketball and football.

But anyway, yep, that's me.

Well, you know, sports is interesting because, you know, when you look at psychology, it's a study of human behavior.

Yeah, right.

And then so if we look at sports psychology, it's the study of human behavior within sport.

So what I, the way I look at it, it's really kind of the same thing except sports adds pressure in front of us.

Okay.

And so whatever.

That's why I was asking about golf because golf is one of those really interesting sports where, you know, if you're dealing with something in golf, it's going to come out.

It's just going to come out, you know, and so whether it's a putt, a chip, a drop, you know, whatever it is, it's going to come out in your game.

But we see that in sports, you know, that we watch and you know, it's just the pressure that whenever they're struggling with that study, that ineffective behavior is going to pull through.

When the pressure gets, you know, the pressure comes.

So the way to alleviate, alleviate that and still have peak performance is what I call plan to win.

Okay.

So if we're like basketball, the final four is, is interesting because you know, in basketball because, you know, like it's usually the buzzer beater.

Yeah, it's usually the last three to five seconds, 11 seconds, something's happening.

So you can always tell what team is prepared for those moments and what teams are not.

So you know, pressure really is something like if I were to ask You, Aaron, look around the room and pick up some pressure for me.

Could you pick it up?

Probably not.

There's nothing here.

I know how to pick it up.

Exactly.

You can't buy pressure.

You can't steal pressure.

You can't pick it up.

You know, you can't.

It's really how you see the situation.

Right.

Where this neural pathway has been created before, and if it's been created before and there's lots of repetition behind it, you can really alleviate it.

Okay.

But if you're not expecting this situation, you're not expecting this to happen, then this pressure mounts and it's your perception of how you see the world.

And so therefore you have anxiety and stress over it.

But if you've.

This is why, you know, people get paid more money in different situations because they have the experience and the wisdom.

They've been through it and so they don't react in an ineffective way.

Wow, wow, wow.

And so with sports now in the nil, it's.

I think the pressure is definitely getting.

It's going to be more.

Because, you know, you've got teams that are built for one, maybe two years.

Yeah.

Not four years.

And so you see this, what I call low emotional intelligence.

You see people throwing stuff, bad penalties, bad situations, you know, they're not thinking it through because they haven't been there before.

Yeah.

Wow.

And so majority of the people listening to this are missionaries serving around the world.

And there's pressure that comes with that too.

Right.

So you're serving in a different context, cross culturally and you're trying to, you're sharing the gospel, you're trying to establish the church.

How do you see that pressure?

How do.

How.

Any words of wisdom for missionaries in that aspect of how they can apply that, the principles you just shared about pressure and to them, sharing their faith and planting the church.

Yeah.

I mean, that's awesome because it's really kind of the same thing as a missionary, you know, and I'm going out into the field, I have an expectation what's going to happen.

And seasoned missionaries know, probably if we were to talk to one today, have one on the podcast, they would say something like, the only thing you can expect is the unexpected.

True, true.

You know, your finances are going to be depleted, people are not going to be there.

People will be there, there will be feedb to be pushed back.

It's really a really good petri dish of like, I don't know what's happening.

And so, and so when you're not prepared for that or have the experience that becomes very stressful.

And so.

But when you do and you can say, okay, what happens when we don't have any money?

What happens when we don't have any support, you know, and, and work through that.

So this brings in a little bit of a different concept I like to lay out here.

So for us to be in peak performance, whether it's sport or missionaries or church, you know, or just serving the Lord on the feet, on the mission field, you know, the way we see how to do it, where it's, whatever we're doing, it really doesn't matter what you're doing.

To me, there are peaks and valleys.

Okay.

All right.

And so for peak performance to happen, which is really, really, really super hard, we have to be mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually on a peak.

And that's hard.

Yeah.

And so what normally happens is we have these peaks and these valleys.

Mentally we're on a peak.

Spiritually, we're in a valley.

You know, mental is how I think, emotional is how I feel.

Yeah.

So emotionally I may be on a peak, feeling great, but mentally I may be in a valley.

Yeah.

Physically, like you're talking about your body, your 50 year old body may be in a valley.

Emotionally, we might be on a peak.

Yeah.

And so what happens is, I think sometimes in the ministry, we think if everything isn't awesome all the time, then there's something spiritually wrong with me.

And I don't think that's true.

I think we go through peaks and valleys mentally, emotionally, physically and spiritually all the time.

And how we navigate those peaks and valleys is where I think, like, we really show the joy of the Lord.

We really show our faith.

So we're what I call maps.

Right.

Mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually in a valley.

And we're still joyful and we're still grateful.

That's a really awesome place to be to show your character for the Lord.

Yeah.

But when everything's awesome all the time, my everything's awesome all the time.

And I.

And I'm thankful for the Lord.

Good for you.

Yeah, you know, it's awesome.

But let's see what happens when you're in a valley.

Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

And so, and obviously you're 100, right?

You said about veteran missionaries.

We served my wife and Wyoming kids.

We served in Africa for 23 years.

And lots of, lots of, lots of valleys.

I think consecutive valleys in the first five years, you know, I mean, so it was like, it just went from, you know, these peaks to valleys.

It was like Valley to valley to valley.

Like, it was just the succession of valleys we got out of that.

But any words of encouragement, maybe for somebody that's listening in and maybe they're in a valley and they're, you know, they want to be on the peak, and they're trying to write a newsletter to tell everybody about the peaks of being a missionary and sharing the gospel, but they just.

In one of those places where they're just in a valley.

And really, that really resonated with me, what you said, you know, to be at peak performance, you have to be at peak at all of those things.

It's not just peak in one, but be it all of those.

Anyway, so any thoughts, any words of encouragement for somebody?

Maybe it's in a valley.

I would say that a lot of times as Christians, we look at ourselves as, what's wrong with me, Lord?

While we're in a valley?

And though there might be something wrong with you, you know, that may be true.

I had a pastor years ago, he was given a sermon and he said, you know, like, we look at things spiritually all the time.

And he was using this example of his car ran out of gas.

And he was like, yeah, Lord, I don't know what's wrong with my car.

If you could just bless my car, like, you know, just like, if the legions of angels would come down and just get my car to work.

I don't have any money, you know, and this is like, you know, Lord, you know, just, just.

And getting a bunch of people to pray over the car and, you know, and just make.

And somebody says, would you put gas in it?

Yeah.

Oh, you know, yeah, I gotta put gas in it for it to work, you know, And I think that happens a lot of times in our lives where, you know, there are decisions that we've made maybe years ago that are now coming to fruition.

And you say, lord, will you rescue me?

And although he can do that.

Right?

But a lot of times it's decisions that we've made, and it's not spiritual.

It's something that you've done to yourself.

And so I think about this, I mentioned it briefly earlier, is this growth mindset versus a fixed mindset.

So as a fixed mindset, it's like, well, I was born five, nine, so I can never be a basketball player, because basketball players are over six feet, you know, so therefore, I just can't play basketball.

You know, it's looking at the way that you were born and the way things are, and just saying that's the Way it is.

That's a fixed mindset.

Yeah.

A growth mindset is like, all right, this is a situation.

All right, how do I.

Okay, I want to be a doctor.

All right.

I probably need to go to school.

I probably need to get a, you know, a residency somewhere.

I'm probably going to need some money.

How am I going to, you know, and you start working towards those.

And then the Lord opens doors.

And so my word of advice is that it's okay to be in a valley.

Yeah, right.

It's okay.

We all have peaks and valleys.

And, you know, and so with that idea, if you really embrace that idea that we're.

That we're peaks and valleys all the time, then I think it reduces the stress.

Say, all right, here's where I'm at now.

Let's.

Let's.

Let's be true about what I've done in the past with myself, and let's work.

Work towards something different.

Yeah, good word.

Good word.

So you share about the R7 process and you've developed this.

So what is the R7 process?

For somebody who, like I said, has not had the opportunity to meet Dr. Dave Jones?

How did you develop it?

And would you share a little bit about it?

Sure.

So R7 is the process that we go by here at M. Is good.

I. I'm not a big prophecy guy.

Okay.

I. I believe in prophecy.

I just.

At the time, I just think it's got to be a real, like, special situation for prophecy.

Prophecy to happen.

And I know there's lots of detail in the Bible about it, and.

The Green Blanket ministry really coming.

You know, I didn't know it was.

I didn't think it was fake.

I just didn't think, you know, it would happen to me.

Sure.

And this apostle pulls me out and he prophesies over me.

I fell to my knees.

My ears got really hot.

My face was, like, flush.

I felt very dizzy.

And I left there Aaron going, all right, I have a choice here.

I can believe this or I cannot believe it.

And I honestly sat on it for a year, and I just didn't know what to do with it.

And so I said, you know what?

I'm going to believe it.

It's not hurting anybody.

I think it's good for me.

It's good for the.

The world, you know, not destroying a marriage over it.

You know, I'm not robbing somebody.

You know, like, it was something that felt.

It was really about Isaiah 55, expanding our tents and having the destiny, the vision, the strategy together.

And so I said, yeah, let's believe it.

And.

And I.

And something happened there when I just.

I'm gonna believe it.

The Lord.

I didn't know this until about three years after, but the Lord sent me a.

A mentor in each one of these categories.

And so I'm like, okay, I'm embracing our seven.

So it was the destiny.

Like, what's the.

Oh, step one, destiny.

What's the overall purpose of our life?

Well, we know overall purpose is to glorify the Lord with our talents and our abilities.

Before we do anything else, we need a vision.

So step two is vision.

Short, portable, easy to understand, memorable, inspiring vision.

Step three is strategy.

So before you can get to destiny vision, you know, to put together a strategy before the vision is a miss.

Yeah.

Kind of vision strategy.

And then four is the brand to build the brand.

Five is to communicate.

So we got to communicate all that.

Six is we got to pray about steps one through five.

Okay.

And then step seven, take action.

So what was happening in my life at that time is I was just action, action, action, spinning my wheels when I didn't have the understanding of the destiny, the vision, the strategy, the brand, or how to communicate it.

And I certainly wasn't brain about all of it.

Yeah.

And so this kind of lays in.

It's not a program.

You know, most programs fail.

You know, most weight loss programs fail.

You know, this is a process where, you know, we lay these in and, you know, we allow the Lord.

We just allow, you know, the Holy Spirit to breathe inside of those.

Yeah.

Steps.

Wow.

Wow.

And so how do you.

How do you see that playing out in somebody's everyday life?

That.

That.

That R7 process?

Is that something that you.

You think about each and every day?

Is that something that guides your weeks and days and months or.

Yeah, this is the first time somebody's asked me that question in full transparency.

Yeah, I would say that most.

I don't think about R7 every single day.

Even though we run it here, we have about 40 clients that we work with on a weekly basis.

But I would say that most of the time, when I meet somebody or talk to an executive, I have the R7 sort of in the back of my mind.

And the very quick.

Dave, the doctor, sports psychologist, conclusion that I get to yeah.

Is they need to slow down.

They haven't thought through their actions.

Okay, how so?

How so?

What do you with slowing down?

Slowing down is what is the strategy?

Okay, what's the strategy?

You know, and it doesn't have to be a five year strategy, it has to be a three to six month strategy.

What are we doing?

What is the vision?

Most people I ask what the vision is, they say, well, I wrote that down years ago.

Or if I get to a ministry and say, you know, pastor, say, what's the vision?

They'll say, hey, let me get my secretary to get the pamphlet over here.

Sure.

And so we can read it real quick.

That's not vision.

Yeah.

And so we want to go, go, go.

I think the world right now with the algorithm of purchasing stuff, you know, like the algorithm, the world is built, is built on us purchasing things.

So the world wants us to buy stuff.

Have you noticed, I don't know if you noticed this in the last, probably three years, four years, Aaron.

But like remember how you could fix things?

Yeah.

Can't fix things anymore.

Made to be replaced,.

To buy new.

Yeah, yeah.

And so, you know, we're just going too fast.

The AI that's happening right now in the world is so fast.

How it's changing.

And so I think we're built to be on this autobahn.

And so we have to slow down.

Yeah.

Wow.

And how, when you have that conversation, is it received?

Well, when, when you, you share that about slowing down.

For where I'm at right now.

Yeah, yeah.

10 Years ago.

No.

Okay.

Well, at all.

Okay, yeah, yeah.

Good deal, Good deal.

So to grow in mental toughness, that's another thing that you share and speak on slowing.

Maybe slowing down is one of those part of mental toughness.

But is any, any insight for somebody listening in that says Dave, you, you have all this education, experience, and in sports psychology, I would love to grow in mental toughness.

Not mental toughness.

I think mental toughness in the grit.

To be able to stay in a difficult place, to plant the plant, to church and to share the gospel.

I mean, it takes mental toughness.

It takes.

For sure it does.

So any, any, any.

Yeah.

Any insight?

A couple of things.

It comes back to your toxic motivators.

Okay.

The first thing about mental toughness is you got to be aware.

You have to be aware of your fear, lust, anger, pride.

These are just the top four toxic motors.

There are other ones, but to be aware of those is step one.

Step two, when I study burnout, it's really, really hard to get burned out on something, you have to do a tremendous amount of repetition in a very short period of time, like one to two years.

And a lot of reps.

I mean, like a lot of reps.

Okay.

And so most people don't get burnout because of repetition.

Most people get burned out because of lack of vision.

We don't know where we're going.

So therefore, what I'm doing right now, just feel.

I'm exhausted.

Okay.

I don't.

I don't understand the vision.

I don't even know what the vision is, but I'm doing this anyway.

What am I doing?

When you lose the motivation of your.

Why resilience goes out the door.

Perseverance goes out the door.

Commitment goes out the door.

You know, when I understand that I am serving the Lord with my talents and my abilities and Ephesians 6 of putting on the armor of God and the breastplate, breastplate of righteousness today, because I'm serving Him, man, I'll go through anything.

Yeah, yeah, right?

Yeah, for sure.

It does.

For sure.

And so those toxic motivators.

Is that what distracts us from Ephesians 6?

And that's.

Is that what distracts us from the vision of what God's called us to be is.

Is bearers of his name in this world?

How do you see that?

I think it's part of it.

Yeah.

I mean, if I have fear, I'm not going to do anything.

Yeah.

I have faith.

It's different, Right.

If I'm.

If I need a quick satisfaction of lust and watching this porn because I want to satisfy myself, the Lord ain't there, man.

Right.

Very, very true.

And if my pride, if I'm.

If my pride is driving me and nobody wants to be around me and my team sees me as, you know, somebody's not a leader because, you know, nobody can get a word in and we can't collaborate.

And I'm not humble.

You ain't building anything big, man.

Yeah, yeah.

So is that.

That was my, Was going to be my question for you.

So when you, you work with people, is that when you look for pride?

Is that what you're.

You're looking for?

Not work, not humble, not willing to collaborate.

Any other signs of somebody saying, yeah, I hear, I hear pride talked about, but I don't necessarily know what that.

It looks like in my life.

I have a friend, Roger, who says self assessment is often inaccurate.

Right.

So we need other people to be.

That we can listen to.

Right.

That'll.

That'll speak into our lives.

So what does pride look like?

As you work with organizations, you work with individuals,.

Pride is taking credit, refusing counsel.

It's not being a team player, dismissing others very quickly.

You know, it's mixed in with a little bit of anger, you know?

You know, and so I kind of look at the toxic motivators not as saying, hey, Aaron, you got pride in your life.

Let's.

Let's figure it out.

Man, that's really uncomfortable.

Yeah, right.

Hey, Aaron, I. I sense you've got some lust issues, dude.

You know, like, we're not going to go there.

Yeah.

But what I will go there is say, okay, I can see this.

Yeah.

Hey, Aaron, what's the vision?

Because if the vision is in play, these toxic motivators sort of melt away.

There's less of them.

They're not.

And I'm saying they don't exist.

Because, remember, I started.

We started off saying that, you know, you struggle at least two of your toxic motors vaders every single day.

So the question becomes, what's the vision?

Yeah.

Vision is very interesting.

I've studied it on the Bible standpoint, Harvard Business Review standpoint, Gallup, you know, and sort of how it needs to be structured and what the culture, you know.

And so when I think of vision, you know, I think of also about Habakkuk, you know, when.

Habakkuk.

You know, remember the story of Habakkuk?

But, you know, this is a time when.

When I kind of look at it as Nineveh was like New York in Los angeles in the 70s.

Like, anything went in Nineveh and nobody wanted to go to Nineveh.

Yeah.

Because it was so crazy.

And so back it goes up on this watchtower and says, all right.

Lord, are you even there?

Like, where.

Where are you?

Like, I. I don't understand what's happening.

I'm gonna sit on this watchtower and I'm gonna wait.

And the Lord comes back and says, write the vision on a tablet.

And in the amplified, it says, right, Division, tablet.

Make it plain so a runner running by can see it and carry it with them.

So this is like you and I on a.

On a highway, driving at 60, 70 miles per hour.

And we see a billboard.

On that billboard, it's got 15 words on it.

You can't read it right, but it says, McDonald's next exit.

Yeah, or gas next.

You can read that and you can take it with you.

And so for the people that are listening out there in the ministry world, you know, the vision's got to be short, portable, easy, to understand.

Memorable, inspiring.

No conjunctions.

So.

No.

And.

But however.

Furthermore, you know, so it's got to be something that people can see and take.

And I'll give you an example.

Yes, we can.

Yeah.

Remember that.

Yep.

Fast forward to Trump.

We all know Trump's vision.

Yeah.

Make America great again.

Sure.

Like, it's just something that.

Now how is he going to do it?

Don't know.

How does Obama get.

Didn't know.

Yeah.

You know, if we.

Even if we go back and say, who did Obama run against the first time?

Do we.

You don't even remember because there was no vision there.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

And the same thing with Trump, you know, like, you don't know who you ran against.

Hillary and Joe Biden.

Yeah.

We don't remember their visions.

Yeah.

And so some of the best visions in the world, you know, Bill Gates, a computer in every home, FedEx to be in every city every day.

Yeah.

You know, it's something that's inspiring and that motivates and it's something you can, you can wrap your mind around.

Yeah.

Good word.

Good word.

Dave, you're also a veteran, and you, you understand the realities of training for war.

And many of the people listening in, as I've shared, are they're battling spiritual warfare.

They're not necessarily somebody who's fighting physical wars or trained for physical wars, but the spiritual aspects of that.

So any, any, any words of encouragement for somebody that may.

Taking your understanding of the, the psychology world, the understanding your relationship with Christ, training as somebody in the military, Any words of encouragement for somebody today that maybe is in the middle of a spiritual war?

Well, first of all, for those that are serving, thank you for your service.

That's awesome.

You know, I don't think it really changes.

You got to be aware of what's, what's driving you, you know, and it's okay to, you know, in that humility side, it's okay to ask for help.

It's okay to be in a community.

I think.

I think the adversary wants you to think that there's only one solution.

When the reality is, you know, think about a door in a room.

You know, like, you think about the room and you're very isolated.

There's only one way out.

Right.

That's not the Lord.

The Lord deals in abundance.

You know, if you're in a room, you gotta, you know, change the mindset.

Say, okay, there are multiple options.

There are multiple doors.

My God is awesome.

Yeah.

You know, and so there are people out there willing to be in community with you, and you have something to give to the world.

We all do.

Yeah.

And to share that vision and crush it for Jesus, you know?

Yeah.

And so my words of encouragement are, you know, that God loves you and.

And that you got a vision, man.

Yeah.

Let's go find it.

Let's go get it.

Dave, I'm going to ask you to pray for us just in just a second.

But you might be thinking if Aaron was a good podcast host, he would have asked me this question.

So is there a question that I should have asked or something?

Or anything.

Or anything you'd like to share?

Before you pray for us, I want.

To ask you some questions, man.

You asked me some really good ones.

No, you did great.

No, it's awesome.

Thank you for having me on.

Yeah, for sure.

Dave, will you pray for us?

Sure.

Dearly Father, thank you for today.

Thank you for your son, Jesus.

We're so thankful to be with you and for you to guide us.

Lord, just ask that you put edge protection over family, our friends, and our finances.

In Jesus awesome name we pray.

Amen.

Amen.

Sam.