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Facebook Ads, Personal Branding & Content Balance, with Andrea Vahl
20th June 2022 • The Personal Brand Entrepreneur Show. Personal Branding, Online Business and Personal Development • Bob Gentle
00:00:00 00:42:44

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Finding a trusted voice to talk about Facebook ads without the, almost religious, bias of the bro marketers is trickier than you’d think. If you’d listen to some people you feel like a clown if you’re not dropping your life savings into ads.

For me, that trusted voice is Andrea Vahl and I’m thrilled to welcome her to the show this week and to talk about brining balance across your traffic strategies and how to set up your first Facebook ads campaign.

About Andrea Vahl

Andrea Vahl is a Social Media Consultant and Speaker and is the co-author of Facebook Marketing All-in-One for Dummies. Her newest book is Facebook Ads Made Simple. She speaks and trains all over the world and has appeared in top lists on Entrepreneur.com and Inc.com. She is also a stand up comedienne.

Andrea's Site : https://www.andreavahl.com/50ads

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Transcripts

(:

Welcome to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneur Show. Today on the show, Bob is speaking with Andrea Vowel. What my business now works around is referrals. Some of it comes through lead generation, just that naturally organically happens through my SEO, my past blog post. I still get a lot of traffic there. Obviously, people are still opting into my lead generators. I have them all over my blog post pop up all kinds of things to get people on my list. And I do continue to serve my list with some content with posts and things like that.

(:

Hi there and welcome back to Amplify the Personal Brand Entrepreneurship, where every week I speak to incredible people who share what makes their business work. And if you're new, take a second right now to subscribe while you still have the device in your hand. And if you're listening on Apple podcast, once again, tap on the three dots in the bottom right Select Go to show and hit the plus icon in the top right hand side. Apple couldn't make that easier or clear, but if you're listening on any other device, it actually is very easy and super obvious. Just hit the subscribe button and welcome to the family. So this week we are talking about something extremely important, something we don't talk about often enough. And I'm thrilled to be joined by not the Princess, not the Queen, but the Empress of Facebook marketing, Andrea Valle. I am so excited. I can't tell you, you probably don't know this. I've been trying to get you on the show for probably two years.

(:

Bob, you crack me up. The Empress. I like that title.

(:

You can have it. It's yours.

(:

Great to be here. Thank you so much.

(:

So for the listener who doesn't know who you are, usually I say the guest should introduce themselves. I'm going to do a little bit of a preface today. Back in the day, I was stuck. My clients wanted Facebook ads. I had no idea where to go. And I wanted a book. I didn't want a help section on Facebook. I didn't want to watch YouTube videos. I wanted a book. And the book that was recommended to me by the person who I trusted and I knew all about Facebook ads was your book. Facebook ads made simple. So number one, I wanted to thank you for that. Number two, listener. Go and get it. It will change your business. And so, Andrea Val, could you tell me a little bit about who you are, where you are and what you do?

(:

Yeah, that's awesome. I'm so glad. I loved writing that book because I love being able to try and break things down into super easy steps that people can follow. And I think one of the things that has helped me write books as writing Facebook marketing all in one for Dummies, that's where I started. So that's another one of my books. That book is a little outdated now, but I'm glad that I was able to put out this newer book that goes through everything really step by step. But yes, I started my journey online about 13 years ago. I was just doing all the math on that, and I started a blog as a character. I wanted to blend some fun experiences for people. So I used my improv comedy background, started a blog as Grandma Mary's Social Media Edutainer, where I wore a wig and blogged with a wig on and had a YouTube channel and videos and things like that and kind of tried to make learning social media fun and entertaining because I didn't see anything fun out there. That's always been part of my brand. And that actually was what led to the book deal and also slight scarring for of my children.

(:

But that's okay. It's worth it.

(:

I tell you, that's a bigger thing than you would think, trying to go out into social media when you have children and build a personal brand in any kind of way. It's a hairy thing because they're super worried about what their friends are going to think.

(:

Yes, for sure. Right. And so it's been fun, and I think it's been great for them to see where things can go when you can be yourself. And I actually was a character, but that's part of myself. I enjoyed doing comedy and blending that into my brand and baking it in there. And I think that's actually been the reason I got the book deal because I grew my brand quickly and was able to stand out from the crowd with doing something a little bit more unusual. And I think also the thing that helped was really my approach to blogging and approach to giving out information. I would really take things step by step and dive deep into everything you needed to know and not worrying about whether I was giving too much away. So that was part of the early stages of my journey as well. But I thought I was just going to build a part time brand and part time business, just running this blog on the side, earning a little extra money. And the amazing thing is it grew into a full time career where now I get to speak all over the world.

(:

And I have a fantastic business that I really never thought was possible and wasn't exactly where I thought I was going to. But I'm so happy that I was able to grow along with my family. And I took my kids on speaking trips with me, and it's been a lot of fun.

(:

So what does your business actually look like now in terms of revenue streams? If that's not a rude question.

(:

No, not rude at all.

(:

I don't need numbers. I'm just curious.

(:

No. And I like to talk about that. Right. Because I think that is a mystery when you're starting a business is how am I going to monetize that and how am I going to build that? And it evolved over the years because I started out running courses and that was a big part of my income stream. I also did consulting, one on one consulting and I had my own speaking engagements where I would kind of do some local events and sometimes some paid webinars and things like that. And now it's evolved into the biggest part of my income stream is done for you ad services, where I run campaigns for clients and that's about, I would say 60% of my income. And then I also still have the courses. I actually built one of my courses up with my cofounder Phyllis Care. We grew social media manager school, then sold it to Agora Pulse. And that was a really cool thing to be able to do, to build something and sell it. I also do some one on one consulting, but that's not as large part of my business. And speaking is still part of my business, but hasn't been for the last two years, really.

(:

Obviously.

(:

I think, yeah, the last two years they've been a bit flaky, but it's nice to see it coming back.

(:

Right.

(:

I'm interested in the done for you side of things because most people's instinct is to move away from that as they build their personal brand and the audience grows and to really monetize through automation and scale. What led to your decision to lean into the done for you side of things and how has your personal brand and your visibility impacted the choices that you're able to make in that?

(:

Right. And that was actually kind of an interesting part that I resisted for a long time. I've always had done for you services as part of what I do, and knowing that I wasn't able to scale it as much was part of my resistance. But I've always liked having that real world experience in different types of industries so that I can confidently speak about Facebook ads and what is working right now for the different industries. What happened when COVID Hit was that that part of my business was the part that really took off. People all of a sudden said, we've got to get digital now, we've got to get online now. And everyone turned towards running ads, launching programmes, doing things at a bigger scale online than they have in the past. So when Kofi Hit, my business actually got a big bump in revenue, which was kind of amazing and exciting. And what I've done since then is just hired more team and kind of grown that agency side of things and kind of focused on myself doing more of the front end work, the sales work, the overall strategy, and then my team running the ads, getting them up, monitoring them, that kind of thing.

(:

So I kind of scaled up the agency side when that demand came more into focus and that's what I love about having different silos in your business is that they can grow and scale. Maybe as your attention changes, but also as the demand changes, all of a sudden you realise that people aren't looking for the courses as much or whatever it might be, or that's not exactly where your heart is at the moment and you decide to scale something else up and it's fun to be able to do that.

(:

Something I'm curious about is you're very well known in the Facebook ads space. I would argue one of the best known names in the Facebook ad space. And how does that impact on the lead generation side of things? The question I'm asking, but not asking, is opportunity can come to us in typically one of four ways. It comes through outbound sales activity, it can come through content marketing, it can come through paid ads, obviously, and it can come through referral. And a lot of people knowing that you're in the Facebook ads space, there would be an assumption that you're generating business through Facebook ads. But because you have this personal brand, I'm curious to know what that does to change the dynamic and what it does to change the attitude and the mindset of the people that come to you.

(:

Yeah, for sure. And I think that's a huge thing that people struggle with is that they think, oh, I can't start this business, it's too crowded or everyone else is so much more well known than me and I'm not going to be able to do it or compete with these other people. And that's totally not true. So when I started, I really focused on content marketing because I didn't have an ads budget, I didn't have a big budget, and I grew my brand from scratch with content marketing, social media marketing. And I know for sure things have changed in the way algorithms work, the way people get discovered, but it's still possible to grow your brand with content and social media on a tight budget. Then when I started getting more business and having more of a budget, I grew my business more with paid ads. And that's where I would invest a lot of money into growing my list and then sell something to that list. Right now I really don't rely hardly at all on paid ads or content. I'm not even blogging as much as I should. I feel terrible about that too, but I just don't have the time as much lately.

(:

What my business now works around is referrals. All of my business comes through referrals. Well, I would say about some of it comes through lead generation, just that naturally organically happens through my SEO, my past blog post. I still get a lot of traffic there. Obviously people are still opting into my lead generators. I have them all over my blog post. Pop ups, all kinds of things to get people on my list. And I do continue to serve my list with some content, with posts and things like that. But probably about 85% to 90% of my business currently comes through referrals, past clients, coming back, things like that. So that's kind of an amazing thing. And I know that if I wanted to scale higher, all I would have to do is focus on one of those other things, more content or more paid ads. And I could definitely scale up higher than I am at right now. And right now I love my lifestyle. I travel a lot. I love the business I've built. And so I'm not really focused on scaling. I'm focused on serving the clients I have and also just working with new clients through referrals that come in.

(:

I want to advocate a little bit for the little guy because a lot of the time when I speak to Facebook ads, people, they are accustomed to what for most people are on realistic budgets. And I have a couple of questions around Facebook ads. And the first one, I guess, is there's a lot of resistance from some quarters about personal visibility. And a lot of people look at Facebook ads as a way to get around having to create content, having to put yourself out there. So I'm curious to know from your perspective from what the data says about the importance of a personal brand to Facebook ad campaign. Is there any benefit?

(:

Yeah, that's an interesting question. And sometimes people ask things like, well, do I need to have all this content out there before I start a Facebook ad campaign? Do I need to build that brand before I can even run ads at all? And typically I say no, but there's a little bit of a caveat to that. I do think that your personal brand and branding your business and really representing it in everything that you believe in and the way you operate is important in that long run. I don't think that you have to wait to build up your brand to a certain point or build up your website visitors to a certain point before you can run an ad campaign. I think they can go hand in hand. I do think it's important to be visible out there with statements about what your company or business represents, how you work, things like that that people are now looking for. They want to see testimonials. They want to see your personality a little bit, even if it's like a local store or local company. What is your personality as a company and your brand as a company?

(:

And I think that is still important to doing business for the longer term. But I don't think that you have to wait to build that all up before you launch an ad campaign and run an ad campaign. I will say too that I think organic posting is a little bit less important. As far as feeding that content machine. I think it's good to have some organic posting for sure. Why not capitalise on what the algorithms can give you. And I think you get a little bit farther on spaces like LinkedIn than you do on Facebook with an organic post. But I don't think that you have to feed that content machine as much as you used to. Like before, people were saying you've got to post every day or six times a day or something crazy like that. That's definitely not the case as much anymore. I do think people still look for some organic content for what kinds of things you're putting out there in the world. They want to see who they're doing business with and they want to get a feel for your personality.

(:

And I think that's the bit that matters for me because I think a lot of people, they don't want to show up in their ads because they have an inherent fear of personal visibility.

(:

Right.

(:

And I guess what I'm curious to know is if I come to you as a client and I say, Andrea, I sell this service, I'm not willing to show up in these ads. It's basically the company brand first, whereas I come to you selling exactly the same thing. And I tell you, you know what? I'll do whatever you want me to do to make this out work. I'll take selfies. I'll do a video, which is going to work better.

(:

Yeah. In general, I think images with people do better, and that's not always the case. Sometimes it's about that lead magnet or something that you are providing. But I think that there is a little bit to it's a combination of, like, images and text that's really doing that sales or that conversion for you. And you don't always have to show up with your personal picture, but it can help. I do see that in general, images with people convert a little bit better, but we always test both things and see if we just put the lead magnet out there. Does that work a little bit better? I think that having text that's also showcasing your personality where you're talking in a conversational tone can really help an ad campaign do a little bit better. So I think it's sort of a combination. I don't think you have to be some people worried that, oh, my gosh, I have to be a complete extrovert or I have to be crazy or I have to do something that I'm not comfortable with. And that's definitely not the case. I think if you were showing up authentically and people feel that that's what really helps draw people into you, that.

(:

Makes a lot of sense. I think my next question is how simple is too simple. And what I mean by this is if you're the average business owner, every time you post something on Facebook, Facebook are saying, hey, you know what? Give us some money, spoof the post. And then at the other end of the spectrum. You've got people with these convoluted processes where they'll run a video to warm you up, and then they'll retarget anybody that watched 50% of that video with an offer.

(:

Right.

(:

So from the average business owner's perspective, where they've got a lead magnet, they've got a little bit of money to spend, maybe $100 a month. How simple is too simple?

(:

Yes. If you have $100 a month, I think at that point it can be about using that lead magnet, getting people onto your email list and really optimising around conversions. Now, one of the things that people worry about, they're like, well, I don't even have a lead magnet. What should I be doing? And I think that just getting in front of people with ads and with your images and your brand can help. But it is better in general to optimise around conversions. So that means using a lead magnet, using maybe it's a sales ad with $100 a month. That's pretty low. It's not a huge budget to get.

(:

Sales, but you can I think a complimentary question to that is what budget is too small? What would be a sweet spot sensible amount of money for the average business owner that's in business is making a living is doing okay, right? Obviously. Maybe let's just pretend that making 150 grand a year.

(:

Yeah, that's good, because I think usually what people suggest is that you're spending anywhere from 10% to maybe even 20% on marketing. Right. And it depends a little bit on where you are in your business if you're in the growth mode or you're in maintaining mode. So if you are, let's just say you're going to spend 10% of your income on marketing. So that's $15,000 per year and you've got other places to spend it. Right. You're not going to spend it all on Facebook ads. But let's say you might spend like 25% of that on Facebook ads. Now, I've gotten myself into a bad math problem. Let's say 30%. Trust me, I'm pulling on my calculator. So let's just say you're spending $5,000 a year on Facebook ads. You might decide to break that up into some different promotions. Maybe you've got something that happens in the spring, you're going to spend more money on promoting that or a big event that you might dedicate a little bit more money to. That. So that ends up with actually not a bad budget. Overall, you might be spending a couple of $100 on Facebook ads each month and then dedicating a little bit more to those special promotions.

(:

And with that type of budget, what I would suggest is maybe if you've got some content that you want to have a little bit more visibility on, or if you do have a lead magnet, I would maybe dedicate that $200 a month to that lead magnet and just continue to build your list. Because what that's allowing you to do is take advantage of Facebook for growing your own email list, which is something that you own and something that you can then market to over and over. So you're kind of getting your audience off of Facebook onto your own property where you can continue to connect with them.

(:

I guess another question that's really prompted by something that I hear a lot. You'll hear this all the time. We tried Facebook ads. It didn't work.

(:

Yeah.

(:

What are some clear indications that what you're doing isn't working right?

(:

So a lot of times when I hear that from people, it's because they're not optimising correctly or sometimes they just don't have quite the right offer. It's a little bit of a balance between some of that. So, for example, a lot of times people are just using the wrong types of ads. Maybe they're boosting posts and that's all they're doing. And then they're not getting the results they want. Even though they're getting a lot of traffic to their website, they're not getting results. And it's probably because they're not optimising it around a conversion, not trying to grow their list, not trying to grow a lead magnet, for example. And then they don't maybe have the right kind of continuing follow up to actually convert that lead into a customer. The other thing that can happen is sometimes the offer isn't right. So it could be that it's a low ticket offer and we're just not able to be completely profitable with Facebook ads because it is more difficult to, say, sell a book that costs $15 and still be profitable with Facebook ads. You can drive a lot of traffic there. You can sell some books, but a low ticket item like that is not going to be ROI positive, return on investment positive often, very often.

(:

And so you have to have something on the back end that maybe is like then offering them the next step or the next higher ticket thing in your Arsenal, for example. And sometimes it's also about just like really kind of examining how does your business best get clients, what really works for you organically and think about that process and see if there's some way that Facebook ads can contribute to that process. So what that might mean is, hey, I work really well when I talk to someone and I explain some of the problems that they might be experiencing, and then I offer my services. So then that might be okay if that's how I best get clients. Let's try and get people onto a webinar where I can teach some things, talk about the problems, and then showcase my solution to that problem and then get clients from there. So sometimes people are just kind of expecting Facebook to be this miracle worker of sales. When it isn't always the case. You need to kind of test some different things.

(:

I think that's an important thing to recognise as well is that a Facebook ad isn't the sales event. The Facebook ad is just a point in the customer journey.

(:

Exactly.

(:

And if you are using the Facebook ad for list building, it may be working brilliantly. But if you're not using that list effectively, or if the offer that you communicate with that list isn't well designed, then you're going to have a leak and you're going to be losing money.

(:

Yeah, exactly. And it's kind of like, okay, where are they dropping out? Where do we have disconnects in this process? And how can we make that right? And sometimes it's even about like, okay, what happens after they get onto the list? Are they opening the emails? Are they engaged? Are we making several different offers to them to kind of monetize that list? So that can be part of the process, too.

(:

So another question I'd like to ask is I hear a lot of people in Facebook land superficially panicking around all the iOS changes and the Privacy rules and things like that. But alongside that, I'm hearing Facebook talking about how good their AI is getting at targeting the right people. So what's your perspective? On the one hand, the targeting is getting really tightened up, but on the other hand, how good is the AI? It's actually doing its job. And can we still trust Facebook to get the targeting right?

(:

Yeah, it actually last year, I'll have to say, was pretty bad. 2021 was not a good year for Facebook ads and they had all the tracking issues. The iOS changes just came out. They just had a lot of problems with a lot of things. I definitely feel like they've made some improvements in the way that they're working in the optimization, and I think they're getting better for sure. So that's a good thing. That being said, when COVID hit, the ads were doing incredibly well, and that's because everyone was online, everyone had nothing to do but sit around and look at our computers. So sometimes people are like, well, in 2020, my ads were doing great. I'm like, yeah, that was when we had a really captive audience to advertise to. And now things have changed. I think world events kind of shift things too. People are out and about a little bit more. So I definitely think the performance of Facebook ads is improving from the changes that happened in 2021. But I think year in, year out, we're typically seeing increasing costs in general, so it's important to always be testing different things, always be trying different offers, trying different text, watching what other people are doing in the newsfeed and watching what kind of ads are really catching your eye is helpful as well.

(:

I think there are two kinds of people who use Facebook ads. There are people who are spending a lot of money and they need somebody competent to manage it for them, like they're managing any investment. And then there are other people who should be self investing and like financial investing. When you're spending a lot of money, it's complicated, there's a lot of variables to watch. But then when you're spending a little bit of money, it's actually reasonably simple. There's just a little bit that you need to know. So from your perspective, for the average small business owner who is not yet in a position to be investing in an organisation like yours to manage their budgets, what is the least they should be learning?

(:

Yeah. I think the basic things that people should really understand is how the Facebook Pixel works to track your ads and how to make sure you're optimising that ad around those Pixel events so that you're getting the best results and the best optimization for your ads in general. So the Facebook Pixel is just this little bit of code you add to your website. It helps with tracking, it helps with retargeting. And once you get that installed and once you get that tracking in place from there, it's really just about running the different audiences, running the different ads, and you don't have to try hundreds and hundreds of different things. I think most people don't even try a couple of different things. They run one or maybe two ads and they say, yeah, that didn't work. What I find is that sometimes it is about the testing and testing different audiences, testing different images, and that's not too hard to do. There is a little bit of a learning curve and I think it makes sense for people to know Facebook ads, even if you are going to hire someone to do it for you, because I think you want to know the basics and what's possible and also testing it out first yourself is helpful to have that baseline before you hire someone else to do it.

(:

So I think it is good to run it yourself, run a conversion ad, understand that little bit about getting that Pixel incorrectly and then doing a little bit of testing on your own. Like you said, I think you're totally right in that, that it's not always a good idea to make huge investments to start. And it is kind of expensive to have someone run your ads for you. A lot of times now what can be more beneficial is to train someone internally. There are courses out there, I have courses, there's books. Train someone internally who's going to be the person who manages that and really gets that rolling for you and have them be responsible for that side of things. And then if you are scaling up higher, if it's working, if you have more money to invest, then it might make sense to hire like an agency or someone to really manage it for you.

(:

I think that internal training is actually a really good point. I think too many people, they go from winging it to delegating far too quickly. Building up that internal capacity is a really good shout. I'm curious to know, obviously, this is the personal brand entrepreneurship, and you come, as you said, from an improv comedy background, built your career early on through content. What is your current content play? Where are you focused right now?

(:

Yeah, when I do content, I try and make it about list building type of content. So I'll run webinars. I will try and get ebooks out there so that I'm building up a library of things that I can offer that will be valuable and will be able to grow my list. So when I go and speak in an event, for example, I want to have some type of lead magnet to offer them so that I can build my list from people who've heard me speak. I want to be able to offer really valuable things to my existing list, and that could be the e book or the webinar. So I'm doing that a little bit more often than blogging these days. I need to get back on the blogging wagon, but I will do that. But it's been a busy couple of years for me in some growth stages, which has been awesome, but sometimes that means that other stuff kind of falls by the wayside.

(:

Podcast transcription is your best friend.

(:

Right?

(:

What I'm really curious to know, because whenever I meet somebody that's really competent, that's sort of working at the top of their industry, I always want to know, what do they find difficult? Because competent people, they just make life look easy. But what's not easy for you? Which parts of your business do you look at and go, you know what? I hate doing that. I feel vulnerable. I feel like I'm faking it. Where's the imposter syndrome?

(:

Oh, so many places now. It is kind of interesting. I have been completely shocked at what a mental game entrepreneurship is. And when I started my business 13 years ago, I thought, oh, you know what? I'm going to start this business. It's going to be great. I'm going to be able to promote myself really easily. And I think at every stage of the game, I've had things that I've come up against that are mental game issues that I've had to work through. And some of those are things like being able to charge what I'm worth. Feeling like I'm not an imposter. Even though I've written some books and spoken in big places, there's always someone who is doing things better than you are that you look to, that you feel jealous of, or you wish that you were working as well as they were. So I think for me, it's really been about how do I make sure I protect my mental headspace so that I don't go into the spiral of negativity? If I start seeing someone who I'm like, oh, look at them. They're doing it so much better than me. And I wish I was more like them.

(:

And I think that's been the biggest thing that I've been able to achieve more recently where I realise what some of those triggers are. I realise when I start down that path how I can pull myself out quickly and continue to be productive. Because sometimes that kind of day would just spiral and I would not be able to get anything done for the whole day, because I'd be thinking of someone's business that was doing better than me or that someone who knew more than me or whatever it would be.

(:

Or just get what I know exactly what you mean. The thing is, once you hit a negative spiral like that, all the other negative things start happening. Oh, yeah, you just see negativity everywhere and if they lose a day, you could easily lose a week, right, for sure.

(:

And so I think that's been kind of the biggest change for me is the ability to pull myself out of that and recognise when that starts happening to me and kind of move myself back to a centred place and say, you know what, that's not something I've chosen or not a direction I want to go or kind of recognise when I'm seeing something like that where I am thinking, wow, that person looks amazing trying to see what is it about what they're doing that I could incorporate? Or how can I learn from them? Or how can I get inspired from them and realise that, wow, that type of business is possible. And that's exciting. Rather than feel badly about myself for not being like that, gratitude. People talk about that all the time. Gratitude is such an antidote and it really is, because I haven't built a million dollar business. I'm doing really well, but it's not a million dollar business. And I've made that choice because I like travelling. And not to say the people who build million dollar businesses can't travel. There's also kind of belief systems that come into play with all of this.

(:

I have to kind of be grateful for the life I've built and realised that if I want that, it's possible and I can just go for that and do that. But I don't need to get down on myself for not making that choice.

(:

Yeah, I think you're absolutely right there. And to say something to the million dollar business, a million dollar business isn't necessarily a million dollars of profit.

(:

Exactly.

(:

Yeah. For me, those numbers are completely meaningless. You can have a much better lifestyle and a $500,000 or even a $200,000 business than a badly million dollar business.

(:

Right, for sure. And it's always been interesting to me too, as you kind of as you mastermind and brainstorm with people, sometimes you find that out that you are making more than someone who has a multi million dollar business. And you're like, wow. And it's shocking that's what's the important part is the net profit and also the lifestyle and the design of what you want.

(:

And also fundamentally the vision. What's the vision that you have for your business?

(:

Right.

(:

Because it's your business. It's your vision. It's not somebody else's.

(:

Exactly.

(:

So, Andrea, if people want to go deeper with you, if they want to find out more about Facebook ads, they maybe want to take the first dipping of the toe. How can they do that with you?

(:

Yeah, all of my stuff is@andreval.com Andreavahl.com. And I've got blog posts. I've got free guides there. I also have a free guide that is 50 inspiring examples of ads that work. And that's at Andreavall.com. Fiftyads. And that's a great way to kind of get some inspiration if you're thinking about creating some ads, if you want to see a variety of ads and different types of businesses, I talk about all of that in that guide.

(:

And if you're listening, thinking I don't want to get on another email list, Andrews is one that's actually worth being on. It's really good.

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Thanks.

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I'm on your email list. So, Andrea, if I end the interview, forgetting to ask you the one question you ask everyone, it'll be the first time for a long time. And I nearly did. But what's one thing you do now that you wish it started five years ago?

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Yeah, I was thinking about this earlier, and that is a tough one. I think the biggest thing for me is to stop doubting myself and trust that the income will always be there. I think as entrepreneurs, it's hard to ride that roller coaster of ebb and flow of income sometimes. And I get really nervous. I used to actually joke about how I would get really, really scared if I have a little bit of a downturn in income. I'd be like, what can I launch? What can I launch? What can I launch? And I would get really scared about that. And I think trusting that that income is going to come in would have given me a lot more peace, a lot less stress, and also just help me make good decisions overall and not knee jerk reaction decisions around launching something that maybe wasn't a good fit. I think having space and having time is not a bad thing. So trusting that that income will come in is a tough thing as an entrepreneur. And I think that would have been something I would have worked on a little bit earlier.

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It is a very difficult thing and it's a really good answer. Andrea Vall, you have been a pleasure to speak to. And bucket list item ticked. Hopefully you will come back sometime, but I'm slightly less star truck.

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Yes. Thank you so much, Bob. It's been great to connect and it was great to connect at Social Media Marketing World and looking forward to more events and hopefully seeing you again in person, if not for sure online, obviously. So great to connect with you.

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Thank you very much for coming. Thank you so much for your time. And yeah I hope speaking you again soon.

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