Have you ever said “no” to the life you were handed… and then felt the quiet weight of “now what”? On Mind Over Matter, hosted by Sana, we sit in that in-between space—after the rejection, before the rebuild.

This episode is for anyone navigating family pressure, identity shifts, or the fear of starting over. Joseph Lanctot shares what it cost him to stop living a forced template—and what it gave him: clearer priorities, deeper resilience, and a practical way to design an “escape environment” toward a life that actually fits.

About the Guest:

Joseph Lanctot is a writer and wellness-minded thinker, a two-time Ironman finisher, long-time hunter, world traveler, and a trauma surgery nurse practitioner. He’s the author of a novel set in the Inca Empire and founder of the company Vital Element.

Episode Chapters:

1. 00:00 — The moment after “no”: freedom, then “now what?”
2. 03:10 — Why forced living hurts more than physical endurance
3. 06:40 — The hidden cost: losing friends, risking security
4. 10:05 — Dissociation: survival mode vs. performance mode
5. 14:20 — The “quiet voice” that shows up in suffering
6. 18:10 — Discipline, motivation, and the power of environment
7. 22:30 — A first step: imagine the safe next environment, then plan

Key Takeaways:

1. Name what the “script” is costing you: relationships, identity, energy, honesty.
2. Notice dissociation: are you using it to survive… or to move toward purpose?
3. Treat the “quiet inner voice” as data—especially when life feels unbearable.
4. Build an “escape environment”: a realistic safe place, support, and resources.
5. Create short-, medium-, and long-term steps to shift your outside to match your inside.

How to Connect With the Guest:

Connect with Joseph on LinkedIn.

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Have you ever had a moment where you realized the life you were living wasn't actually yours? Not because you didn't try, not because you weren't capable, but because so much of it was handed to you.

Rules, rules, expectations, until you couldn't tell where you ended and the pressure began.

And when you finally reject what's forced on you, there is freedom.

Yes, there is freedom.

But then there is also this quiter, heavier question.

Now, what? How do you find meaning and direction after you have walked away from the script? Listeners welcome today's episode on Mind Over Matter podcast.

We are going to sit inside that space, the space after no before.

Yes, no rushing, no motivational noise, just real clarity.

I'm your host son, and let listeners let me introduce my guest to all of you.

He's a writer and wellness-minded thinker, a two-time iron man finisher, a long-time Hunter, a world traveler, and a trauma surgery nurse practitioner, someone who explores what it actually means to live well in a loud, distracted, over-complicated world.

He's the author of a novel set in the INCA Empire, Hope I'm able to pronounce it correctly, otherwise I apologize.

And he has spent years studying, testing and applying holistic wellness principles in real life, not just in theory and alongside his writing, he has built and led wellness-focused businesses, including founding his current company, which is vital element, so he has first-hand experience at the intersection of personal growth and entrepreneurship and where I believe that, you know, let me tell you listeners, he doesn't offer quick fixes or trends.

He speaks candidly about what works, what fails and what it takes to build a healthier life while also navigating ambition, stress, responsibility and modern pressure.

So this conversation isn't going to be abstract, it's going to be honest, raw.

So listeners, let's meet my incredible guest Joseph Lang.

Joseph, welcome to Mind Over Matter and it's really an honour having you with us.

I'm very excited to be with you.

So I'm looking forward to the conversation.

Absolutely, absolutely.

Yeah.

When you are reading this biography of mine, it it, it, it, it is not correct because at least all the suffering and all the hard times and it seems like, oh, I've done this and that and this, but the suffering, the hard time and the looking for direction was actually the majority of the time and and of course in society we don't put that on resumes, more on biographies, except if it's, you know, a very long book that somebody else writes about you after you die.

But but that's actually the important part because I think omitting that makes a lot of people going through the hard times feel alone and makes them feel like nobody else has actually had go through it and that there's no way out.

I think that's a, I think as a society that's something we should maybe change.

I go ahead.

I think I don't remember what I was going to say.

No, I remember that.

Nelson Mandela.

One of the quotes that always helps me out through hard times was don't count.

I think it was.

Nelson Mandela said, Don't count how many times I fell off the horse, count as many times as I get back on the horse and that kind of help me out.

Along with several other of his quotes, I really appreciate that you actually, you know, flipped it because yes, in fact, you know, I'm also guilty of sometimes only recognizing, you know, the success of people, but what's happening behind the scenes, the the the long, the days, the nights, the trials, the tribulations, the sometimes maybe the dramatic experiences.

I mean, you know, people celebrate, you know, people say that, you know, when, when you know someone is successful, then only people are good with them.

But when someone is actually going through challenging times, the only real, the people who are there with you or they will constructively, you know, maybe they'll give you constructive criticism, they'll actually guide you, mentor, you are the ones to look up to.

So that is something I absolutely believe and thank you so much for, you know, beginning the conversation with that, Joseph, I think it absolutely kind of, you know, captures the essence of here.

And with with that, I would like to start with the real cost of rejecting what's forced because, you know, people may call it as, oh, you are rebellious, you are going against the tide, you are bound to fail.

This doesn't work as as the conventional way to, you know, be successful.

So when someone rejects what's been forced on them, Joseph: you know, like family expectations, a career path like this template that get your good grades, be successful, get a good job, get married, settle, be good parent, and you know, your life is on track.

Sometimes me, a role will never choose.

There is usually a cost.

What did it cost you to stop living someone else's version of your life? Your own life? Well, let's what, what's that whole story? I've so many stories along the way to that question.

But let's talk about, you know, Iron Man real quick.

So Iron Man, those are not familiar.

Think about a 100, it's about a 140 mi, so kilometers, I think just under a 100 km and it's about 4 km swim and then it's a pushing kilometers all the better about, it's about just over a 100 mi, so about 60 mi bike, right.

And then it's marathon back to back-to-back and people are like, oh my gosh, it's so hard that so you must suffer so much And let me tell you the pain of doing one of those races and the and the rules you have to follow and you have to stay with it for you know, ten to 13 hours just grueling work.

People are dropping on side of you.

You know, one of my got stung by jelly fish in the water and people are throwing up and you feel you feel worse than throwing up.

You kind of wish you could grow up to feel better.

It is every single part of you is in pain.

And let me tell you, being forced to live in a life that is not your life is worse than that pain.

And so people go's a painful to do it.

I guess that's not the worst pain.

The worst man is trying to be forced to live a life that's not your life.

And I think the people let me ask what I have lost, the life I my may have lost by rejecting what was forced upon me.

I want to flip in and say, What have I gained and I had, And I'll answer your question more directly as well.

But I have gained immense propensity to understand what's important in my life and how how to put up with other pain and suffering or what other people call suffering because your, your ability to persist and deal with things is made much stronger because of it.

Now when I was rejecting the life that was supposed to be forced upon me.

Now to ask your question, it was, it was, it was rejecting a whole entire template of my life.

It was it was a as they would call in the in focal or it's a Patchi, It's a rebirth of the universe and it's an adult or older adolescence, adult.

I'm not sure what to call that.

I guess very hard.

You know you can risk your family.

I risked my family.

Thank goodness I have a good family.

They stuck with me despite It was very hard for them.

It risks your money, risks a security and and your friend group and that's something I sacrificed once I chose my life and rejected my life that was supposed to be on me.

I lost almost all my friends.

I'm one of those people that I got many friends from before I was 20 years old and that hurts because I hang out with people that, you know, these are my kids from my friends from elementary school, primary school, these are my friends from kids I don't have that.

We went on different path and it's very sad.

That's something I sacrificed.

However, I've gained new friends and friends are more true to me, which is very appreciative.

Does that answer your question? It actually does.

I mean, it couldn't be clear, clearer than this.

I mean, it made me realize that.

And yes, I absolutely agree with you because you are living that life, that template which is not your own.

Way your maybe your dream, your ambition of living every single minute, every single second, every single life.

And I mean, the the emotional repercussions of that, the output there, it's it's intangible and I think that is that is something which is kind of a huge, you know, unfortunately huge drawback of mental health challenges and issues because unlike physical challenges, which are, you know, visible people, usually people wouldn't treat mental health challenges in the same way.

I look at them, you know, they would simply say these all things happen, you know, just move on, just forget about everything and move on.

So it absolutely makes sense.

So what you just said, I think a lot of the anxiety now let's talk a little bit about my nursing background.

So I'm a nurse practitioner now, which if you know, this is an inter-national audience, is a graduate degree in nursing, so I can prescribe and I can diagnose like a doctor, but I am not a doctor.

I go a different route, go through the nursing route.

And when I was pursuing my nursing career, you know, I started as as somebody low the totem pole and I would do these these long h* hour shifts doing one and one care, and sometimes this would be with people that are psychologically ill, suicidal, and I would sit with them and keep in mind I was one of them too.

I remember specific times when I'm sitting there watching a patient that suicidal.

I'm thinking to myself, you're watching me too, because I'm suicidal too.

But I what I mean to say, spending so many years on such a close contact with people suffering a lot of the time, the suffering is is specifically what you said.

People feel that they have to live a way that is true to them, but for whatever reason, their environment, their society, their friends, their knowledge, their means does not allow them and creates this huge conflict inside and and it's a rift and tears you apart from the inside.

Of course you're in, you're fine on the inside.

It makes complete sense on on that front, there's also, you know, of course the medical diagnoses of, you know, as a chemical imbalance and sometimes it's not necessarily your life is wrong.

Some people are just anxious by nature and entire different discussion, but we're not discussing that here.

Yeah, yeah, I agree and I mean it, it can be and, and I think sometimes you know, the way we, our bodies are our brain on our nervous system, it it tries to cope up is just maybe completely numbing ourselves kind of, you know, caged in like completely away from all these and just simply being robotic that now I'm no longer reacting or even behaving, I'm just, you know, it's just going on, that's it and that's kind of a coping mechanism.

I mean, it's a natural coping mechanism and I think sometimes it can be a very, very heavy place to be in for someone who is realizing that they are not, they're not in that stage of life, probably what they wanted to actually.

But somehow sometimes it's also the pressure of, you know, displeasing your loved ones, your family members just because you don't want to create any kind of unpleasant situation occur or circumstance just because you want something like you would feel that, you know, it would be really very selfish of me to even fight about it, that this is not what I want, I want something else.

Whether it's a job, it's a career, sometimes it's a relationship, your marriage or you know, anything, even food, sometimes, you know, with food also, they can be some such situations.

Well, I think you mentioned two different things there.

I wish you knew specific term, proper terms.

But there's, there's a dissociation, dissociation where you know you, you almost start living outside of yourself now.

Dissociation is, you know, can happen with trauma can happen through very stressful events, but it can also happen when you need to get through something.

It's not always a bad thing and, and, and this is where I think it's important to realize like if you are on your life mission, say if you're doing an iron man or you know that that's what you feel strongly about or you're you're writing your book or you're in a situation, but this is your life.

Call what you, you're lucky enough to find your life purpose and it's hard and it requires you to reach into places of your soul that you otherwise don't normally.

Sometimes you need to dissociate and that's a that's a fine way to dissociate and it helps you become much stronger.

You find the inner person that you know, ignore some facts and helps you accomplish that.

However, then you mentioned, you know, these people that are stuck in circumstances that are not for them, the family situation, the job situation of a bad relationship, maybe there's only any number of them.

And sometimes to survive you have to dissociate and and those are two different things.

The same mechanism one's used to remain in a bad, toxic, horrible environment and the other one is to excel.

Once you found your your purpose and it's important to realize, you know, if you've dissociated to to survive in a bad environment, you know on a logical and you feel deep down that is a bad environment is is not where you meant to be.

That's take your part and that's a whole entire different discussion and and there's ways to get out of that, There's there's ways to get out of that And let's talk about that for a second.

I've been there and when you're dissociated, you have an opportunity in both terms of dissociation if it's a good one or the bad one, because in Christianity they call it, you know, the Holy Spirit.

I'm not sure what they call in other religions, but it's, it's that very quiet voice, it's not the voice and you feel it most, you can feel most dissociated states.

You hear things, you see things differently, you feel things you otherwise wouldn't feel, and if you can pay attention to that, that gives you really strong insight and and direction how to get out.

You just have to listen to it, but you're usually in the best circumstance there to listen to it in that case, say in one circumstance in a good way during I man, you doing I man, you were dissociated usually in that experience, you that feeling that you can do it and you push and push and pushing get through.

Other times say like when I was leaving, the religion that I was raised in was not good for me was very wrong.

And they preach about the Holy Spirit.

Holy Spirit.

Holy, I'm like, I can't hear it, I can't hear it.

What am I doing wrong? I can't hear it.

And it was not the proper fit for me and it tore me apart on the inside and every single day was just suffering, suffering, suffering.

I like, Where is this Holy Spirit? I would pray God, give me the Holy Spirit, let me stay strong.

Years later, I realize the Holy Spirit was guided.

The voice inside of me was guiding me.

And it was just trying to be heard like, Hey, this is not the life for you.

You need to listen.

You need to change your environment to get into something where Joe can actually excel and live his life.

Fulfillment while you're on this earth.

This is not it.

You need to go here.

I'm yelling at you.

I'm making dissociate, I'm making you miserable.

Please listen.

I don't know how else to make you listen.

And only sometimes when you're in those suffering moments most completely dissociated, you finally get the message of Oh my God, I need to get out of here.

Yeah.

Even I understand that tension just because I sometimes also struggle to struggle to understand that, you know, what is this voice or this miracle or signal that, you know, people tell and this is irrespective of religion or anything, but just, you know, that higher power or the Holy Spirit or maybe something which is spiritual, who exactly? What kind of voice is that? And then sometimes I realize maybe it's through me only my inner self itself is like, you know, it's, it's kind of those silent screams, those, you know, deafening screams.

Sometimes, I don't know, but it kind of is trying to speak through me only maybe my body is giving me those signals.

Maybe what I'm thinking when no one is watching or when I'm not interacting with someone, I'm, I'm not doing anything.

What exactly am I telling myself? I think sometimes you know that higher power is actually communicating with you through you only no, absolutely and and you know, call it whatever you want.

Matter-of-fact is community doesn't know what it is, but we all know what it is, whether it's from outside of us or inside of us or if it's, you know, the energy of the universe flowing through us or if it is a grand master plan or that some other world tell directing us through ways we don't see, We honestly, we can't say, you know, 1,000% what it is, but we know what it feels like.

Some of us and other ones of us that don't know what it feels like.

Hopefully this helps them learn what it feels like whatever it is because that's the direction and that's the power.

That's humanity, that's the fire within.

And once you learn how to feel it and hear it and listen to it and follow it, your life changes.

And before we wrap up yourself, I have two questions from here and specifically with the dissociation that you mentioned, the good and the bad here.

Another aspect is, you know, discipline.

And I'm, I'm very sure that you are someone who understand discipline like, you know, trauma medicine, I in man training, entrepreneurship.

But how do you know when discipline is healing and when it's, it's just a control wearing or, you know, masculating itself as a respectable outfit.

A great, great question and a very important question, the discipline.

Look, I don't think I'm a disciplined person.

Other people think I am.

I'm a disciplined person.

I just listen to, you know, my passion and my mission in life and that drives me and that that drives me.

In such a case, I become a disciplined person.

But by fact, if I did not have that, I would not be a disciplined person.

I like sleeping in, I like in bad food.

There's a lot of good bakeries around here and I love that.

But you know what, III have a feeling, what I want, and I follow that feeling.

And also then the other thing is that your environment and this is what we do, a vital element, we cater environments.

And this is why I have gone into this because everybody focuses on the inside.

I said, you know, it doesn't matter if you're the most disciplined person and you're going to wake up at 430 every single morning.

If you do not have electricity, you don't have a clock.

You cannot wake up at 430 every morning.

If you want to work out, if you want to do an Iron Man race, you know you can do it.

You believe in yourself, but you do not have outdoor facilities that are safe or gym, your bike to do it, most likely you're not doing it.

You have to have to be an environment, a social environment, safe environment and environment that gives you the resources you need.

And I say, well, that's really important, you have to have that if you want to disciplined, quote unquote, life.

And so I think that's really lacking.

And everybody does not talk about a very few people talk about it.

So like, oh, we got, I have to make it for everybody, good environment for everybody.

So that's the inspiration behind this new highly disciplined endeavor.

I'm under my company, you know, that's, I appreciate the honesty here because frankly, sometimes even also, I am not very much disciplined.

And yes, I'm aware about it.

But then it's, it's about the environment.

It is true, it is very, very much true because when I am in a, in a situation or in circumstances where I cannot be myself, there's this, you know, that, a numbness, robotic kind of way that I have to kind of adapt just because I think that, Okay, that's the best way to adopt here.

But when I get that environment where I am actually myself and I feel that, yes, you know, that feeling of fulfillment comes, even if you are physically tired, but then your spirit, your heart says, no, no, go along with it because this feels really, really good.

This feels fulfilling.

Then there's some different kind of energy, different kind of frequency that I am, I'm on.

So it actually makes a lot of sense.

Joseph: And before you wrap up one last question and it's kind of more of a, you know, maybe a solution or an advisor suggestion for, for someone who's listening to this episode and maybe they are realizing that yes, this is the life which I didn't want.

Maybe I, I just want to make a change.

But you know, I'm, I'm still having that fear that, you know, what, if this change is huge and I'm not able to sustain it, maybe the people around me they're not able to sustain it.

Is there any way out here, like the any first step, first step that they can start with going to your dissociated state if you have one, if not going to hypothetical mindset and picture an environment where your constraints no longer exist and get to know that environment.

And then realize then then create a plan to get to that environment, say if it's a, if it's a bad relationship, what would have to happen for you to get out of that relationship? What sort of environment, maybe they're hostile, maybe abusive verbally or emotionally or physically.

How do you rescue? Is there a shelter? Is there a friend? Is there this, but you don't have it, but there there's an environment.

If you had an escape, let's say spot, then that would be game changer.

So then comes the question, how do you create the safe spot? Say, if it's a being for like me as a kid, you're being forced to live in a religion that you don't want to and and to reject that religion, maybe you reject your whole entire life and your whole entire support.

Well, what does it look like to support yourself and to create a new life? What, what environment is that? How do you get in that environment? And then you, you create a plan to get into that environment and then you can shed those old rules.

You're in a new place, you're in a new life.

So I, I think it starts with changing your if your inside has changed quicker than your outside, the next step is, you know, forming what the outside is to look at like there's short, medium and long-term changes you can make and just patient life is long for most of us and and and and work toward that way now.

I always, always happy to connect offline for those that want to connect, Come on, LinkedIn and I've got my book and then I'm, I've got my company as well.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for that.

Joseph.

Yes, of course.

I'll have all the links mentioned into the show notes.

Listeners.

So feel free to connect with yourself.

Say one more thing.

No, sorry, forgot my book.

I'm not employing my book, but for that, it's perfectly what you're saying.

The book.

AAWI: it's about this in girl and she's in the bad environment and she or bad things are happening.

And it's a it's a novel written on historical stuff and follows along these same things that we've talked about.

So highly encouraged if anybody wants to look into it.

Thank you for.

Thank you for that.

Joseph: And yes, I'll also add that into the show notes.

So listeners find all the details along with this episode on your favorite podcast platform wherever you are listening to Mind of Matter.

To and Joseph, thank you so much because this was a really, really deeply reflective conversation, not as a host, but as a, as a person, as a human.

For me as well, because whatever I realize is sometimes the most meaningful direction, it doesn't, doesn't always arrive like this huge light bulb moment or like a lightning bolt.

I I believe it arrives as a quieter decision to stop abandoning ourselves in small ways and to get honest about what's costing us and to build a life that we can actually sustain.

So thank you so much for this candid conversation.

Thank you so much for having me and to all the listeners, if you are in that space after rejecting what was forced, where you have walked away from what was handed to you, but you haven't built what's next.

I just want to say that doesn't mean you are behind or you have failed, It means you are in the honest part.

Well, thank you, Thank you everyone for tuning into this episode of Mind Over Matter.

If this conversation opens something in you, share it with someone who's quietly trying to find their way back to themselves.

Until next time this is mine over Matter.

I'm your host and I'll be back soon with another episode.

Thank you.