Delia Lang, PhD, MPH, is Executive Associate Dean for Educational Affairs at the Rollins School of Public Health, Emory University. In this episode, Delia talks about her experiences being part of an exceptional team that has successfully navigated re-accreditation with new standards (led by Delia!) and working on a new strategic plan that will re-envision what RSPH does and how they deliver education and training. Delia's words of wisdown for aspriring educators and education leaders include "follow that passion and what's in your gut in terms of education and how you want to be involved in educating the next generation of students and leaders out there, whatever your discipline is." and [with regard to delegating] "who do you have to engage, make a plan for that and equip them to be successful in that, and then be specific in your delegation and give the guidance and the support and the parameters for what needs to be done."

Resources

• Association of Schools and Programs of Public Health (ASPPH) – The Voice of Academic Public Health
• Rollins School of Public Health | Office of Evidence Based Learning
• Rollins School of Public Health | BEHAVIORAL, SOCIAL, AND HEALTH EDUCATION SCIENCES (BSHES)

Hello listeners, welcome to Educational Landscapes, Lessons from Leaders. On today's episode, we are going to learn from Delia Lang. Welcome to the show, Delia.

Thank you. It's my pleasure. And thank you for having me.

Absolutely. So to get us going, what is your educational leadership title or titles?

So I am the Executive Associate Dean for Educational Affairs at the Rollins School of Public Health.

And what does that title mean?

Let's see. That title means I am responsible for Educational Programming and Educational Planning. That's the big umbrella role. I would say within that there's three buckets or interrelated buckets of roles. One is specific to programmatic and curricular development, and that includes thinking about who we want to teach in our programs. So who has access to our educational programs, how do we want to teach? That includes not just modality of teaching, like in-person or hybrid or online, but also classroom environment and inclusive learning environments. And then also what we teach. So that's relates more to content and do we provide the knowledge and the skillset for students to be prepared for the workforce. And then another bucket is supporting the school's education committee and liaising with the provost office around curricular issues. And then the third bucket is overseeing and ensuring that we have our accreditation always up to par. And then when re-accreditation time comes around, just overseeing that process in the documentation, which is always a great time.

Oh indeed. I was going to say, I'm sure there are many people who are like, "Thank goodness it's Delia."

Yeah, they're all lining up to participate and volunteer.

So as we think about these broad but interrelated buckets, the programmatic, the education committees and provost and accreditation, what skills do you use in order to be able to juggle the work that you have to do?

Yeah, so lots of skills that are encompassed in all of those roles because I really interact with so many groups of people who are in a variety of roles themselves. So certainly at the highest level, I would say just having leadership skills and having a clear vision of what our goals are and what our strategies are to achieve those goals and how to measure progress. Of course, that's important in any organization, and academic settings are no different because we want to make sure that we always work towards something that we say is our goal or our mission, but how do we get there is through collaboration and teamwork.

Part of that includes problem solving of course, and communication skills. I know that's an obvious, but I feel like it has to be stated that you have to have communication skills and those soft skills to work with a variety of individuals and even approaches to problem solving. Not everybody approaches problem solving in the same way. And I think what I've learned is that delegation is a skill, which I'm still learning a little bit more about, but that is an important one too.

Indeed, indeed. I'm glad you brought up delegation because I think it's one of those that people don't always think about it in terms of leadership. It's, "Oh, you will do it all." And so talk a bit more about delegation and what you're learning.

Yeah, so I think what I'm learning is I think you hit the nail on the head with that approach. And that's certainly, I think, part of maybe our training to some extent, maybe also part of being women and nurturing and wanting just to take care of people and making sure everybody's okay. And you still get tasks done and multitasking. And sometimes it doesn't come as natural to me anyways, that, hey, let's pause and see who is even better equipped to do X, Y, and Z task, because I'm not best equipped at all tasks, obviously. And so what is the best and most efficient way to move to a certain goal or to get a task done? And who do you have to engage, make a plan for that and equip them to be successful in that, and then be specific in your delegation and give the guidance and the support and the parameters for what needs to be done.

And I think there's an approach to that and a skillset to do that well, again, to set up people for success. And oftentimes I have found myself thinking, oh, you know what? That is a process in itself that I have to pause and think about, and so why don't I just quickly do it and then I don't have to deal with all of that which is unfair and inappropriate in multiple levels. A, because I'm not the best person for the task, B, because it really takes away from somebody whose job it is to do that and also potential for growth for somebody to do that. And so these are all the things I'm learning to be better at that in a strategic and thoughtful way.

Thank you. I really love the richness of that understanding about delegation and how much it is about supporting and growing others and setting them up for success.

Yeah. Thank you.

Welcome. So recognizing you probably didn't start in this role here at Emory, can you tell us a bit about what was your journey that led to this carnival?

Yeah, so it was definitely a journey that I didn't necessarily set out on from the very beginning and didn't really anticipate, but one that I'm very grateful to be on, so I will start off by saying that. So I started at Emory here at Rollins 22 years ago this fall it'll be. And I came in as a postdoc and mainly working on research with a team of researchers doing development and implementation and evaluation of HIV prevention interventions actually. And so I managed numerous research projects here in the US and overseas. And what I learned is that I really enjoyed the training aspect of that work. So I loved teaching and training research teams on different aspects of the research process, like research methods and data management and how to do that in research constraint settings. And just seeing these large scale projects just unfolding in real life across all these different kinds of settings really spoke to me.

And so that translated into my classroom teaching. I'm a faculty in the behavioral, social and health education sciences here at Rollins, BSHES for short, where I teach master's students in these areas like research methods and applied statistical analysis and theory and survey methods. So there was a deep satisfaction seeing the research unfolding in the field, but then there was this real satisfaction seeing students grow in terms of their public health knowledge and skillsets in a short period of time. So there's like this over here in the field takes a while to take, but you could see the skillset in how students grow within sometimes weeks, a few months, like a semester for sure. And that was really, really meaningful to me. And I think that also probably comes from my training, my doctorate in clinical psychology. And so I started out in that world working with patients and with clients and there you can immediately see the impact that you're having.

And so that really spoke to me. And so I trended more toward teaching and education, and I was tapped to become the director of the MPH program in the BSHES department, which I did for about eight years. And so I oversaw the curriculum there and working with diverse students and just really learning the needs of students who are juggling so many competing priorities and what that meant for us in terms of what our responsibility was for education and training. And that then led to, under the department chair at the time, Dr. Colleen McBride, I had the opportunity to lead a new office, the Office of Evidence-Based Learning, which I know you and I have talked about before. And the purpose here was to elevate scholarship of teaching and learning and looking at pedagogical approaches and best practices and really raising the profile of looking at teaching from a more scholarly perspective.

And so that was a really unique position that I enjoyed. And then that led to the opportunity to lead the school's re-accreditation in 2018, 2019. And that was a huge lift because our accrediting agency at the time had completely revamped the criteria. And so it was a little bit of a restart for us. And I know I always laugh because accreditation is not really anybody's favorite task in academia, but honestly, I learned so much through that process in terms of why we do the things we do and what are really important things versus what are some bureaucratic things that we have to do. So that was really eye-opening. And then just different opportunities opened up for me to become involved at shaping institutional vision and policies for education and for our future trajectory as a school, in education. So that's where I landed. And then last year when our new dean, Dean Fallin came on board, she asked me if I would take on this role. So probably more than you wanted to hear, but a long about way to education from not really educational beginnings.

I love it. I don't think it was too long because I am always curious about people's pathways and whether somebody knew from the very beginning that they wanted to be an educator or a leader or it was something along the way that led them to that.

Yeah. And I think that develops over time sometimes. And I think that it's important to stay open to those opportunities.

Indeed, indeed. And so really appreciate the breadth of your experience. And that logic line, when you talked about discovering how much you loved training and the short term and long term, seeing those effects, once you said that, I was like, "Oh, I see the thread. I see the thread." So as you think about that journey that you had, what do you wish you knew before stepping into your current role?

You know Ulemu, that's such a great question, and I was thinking a bit about this question and then I thought, I wish I could reword this question just slightly.

Feel free to.

And I was hoping you would say just that. So if I could reframe it just slightly, I would say what do I wish that I would have remembered as I took on this position? And what I wish I had remembered is that the imposter syndrome is a real thing and a constant companion that you have to really learn to manage. And through all the different roles I described in my previous response, at each step of the way, I assumed a role with more responsibility. And so my good old imposter syndrome companion was always right there by my side, rearing its ugly head and raising those typical questions of doubt that we have, like "Are you really cut out for this?" And I always knew at least 10, 12 people who could do much better justice to the role than I thought I could. And so why should I really say yes to this position and this time they're really going to find me out.

I've gotten away with it all these years, but this is really going to be the last time. And when they do find out, I've been faking it all this time, it's going to be such an excruciatingly painful time. And so at no time have any of these scenarios I played out in my head actually happened, which we all know to be true. So I just wish that I would've remember that it's okay to even go through this thought process to have really trusted more that I was equipped with the skills to even have trusted the people who have asked me that they saw something in me that maybe perhaps they trusted more than I did. And I guess maybe even most of all that I was surrounded by an incredible network of people and colleagues. Really, the culture of collaboration here at Rollins is truly extraordinary.

And so I just wish I would've remembered that I can really rely on them and rely on my experience, and I'm not alone in this, which is actually the truth rather than the stories I was building up. And it would've been a very helpful process to engage in more of that thinking at the start of stepping into these roles. But I think it's just important for those of us who do deal with this imposter syndrome to remind ourselves that you just have to manage it and to look at history and see what data history provides for us.

I love that. And the way you described that visual of, "Oh, the imposter syndrome is just tagging along and going, where are we going? Where are we going?"

"Where do you think you're going?"

Oh, gosh. But yes, thank you. I think those are really important perspectives because a lot of us experience it, and I don't think it's talked about enough. It's starting to be, but a lot of people feel it without having discussions.

I think you're right. I think we do have more spaces where it's safe to talk about it than we did before. And I think that's important. I think it's important to bring up with our students more as well so that they can see that even we struggle because I think sometimes they look at us and they think, oh wow, this person has it made. They have X, Y, and Z role. They're a faculty, they're a professor, they're all researchers, they're all these things. And surely it's all wrapped up with a beautiful bow. And I think it's important to show that that may be what it seems, but there's all this internal dialogue sometimes happening that they are also going through as they're going through their educational experience.

And I hear that from students all the time. "Am I cut out for this Emory experience? Maybe I should have gone to another school or a different program. I'm not going to be good enough." And no, a lot of us go through this and I think it's good for them to hear and to maybe even help model what that might look like to come on the other side successful.

Indeed. Well, we hope we can all learn to role model that so that we make it more common discussion in society. Thank you. So recognizing that you've got those three buckets, and so that's quite a bit of interrelated, but a lot of things, what continuing professional development do you do in order to keep up with the needs of your role?

And I think in some ways, this question even relates to the previous question about how do you manage some of that imposter syndrome? Because if we recognize that we always have more to learn and then we pursue those opportunities, that voice starts to become a little dimmer. So I have quite a few opportunities to engage with colleagues and peers from not just here at Rollins, but from other institutions as well. And so for example, we have two annual meetings through our associations of schools and programs in public health that I attend regularly, even through Covid, they were all online, but it's just a really great group of peers who are in similar roles across peer institutions and across other universities in the country and even internationally at this point actually. And so it's great to come together and just talk about similar challenges that we are going through, not just in terms of the work that we do, although that is hugely important and a big part of it, but even some of these personal things that we struggle with and for people who come into new roles in a more junior way.

And so those have been really invaluable for me. So I continue to seek that out as well as just opportunities to learn more about higher education and best pedagogical practices, and especially as we're emerging from Covid and what the last three years have meant for us in the education space and what it's meant for students in the education space as well as faculty who teach our students have been so challenging. So just really learning more about we can't go back to whatever we think normal was before. What does this mean after Covid and how do we adapt going forward? And part of that is really trying to understand more and continue to advance issues of diversity, equity, inclusion and anti-racism in the way in which we create our educational programs.

So that's on the content side, but also how we deliver our programs and how we create those environments, both physically and virtually because students may take courses online or in person, but how do we facilitate that sense of belonging and inclusivity for our students? And so those are important ways, but also, again, continually honing leadership skills. There's always so much more I can learn there, so the list can go on, but those are some of the top ones.

Thank you. I love that you talked about the community that you have with people who are similar types of roles and thinking about the junior folks who are coming through. And so building off of that, what advice would you give someone interested in doing the same type of leadership role that you have?

Yeah. Yeah. I think just based on my experience, I would say surround yourself with trusted colleagues and peers, both within your institution but also outside your organization where you can have really honest and authentic conversations about your role and your concerns and challenges that come up and your hopes and aspirations about the role. And I would say make sure these are people who are transparent and truthful. And by that I mean not just the yaysayers who are going to be just so excited that you're entering in this new role, but also those who are going to say, "Yes, this is great", and also just know about all of these potential pitfalls or all of these challenge areas. Not that they can't be overcome, but what might this mean for you in these other areas so that you go in it with open eyes and fully informed. I think that's super important.

So those real true one or two mentors that you can do that with and have that relationship with, and these leadership roles typically come mid-career or later. So there are really important decisions that you have to make when stepping into a role like this, because invariably when you say yes to this, you have to say no to something else that you have to let go so that you can make space for the new role. And while that may sometimes sound really freeing, like, "Ooh, I don't have to do X, Y, or Z, I get to do this", it can also be a really tough choice. And that's not always so easy and straightforward about what you're going to let go. And I think sometimes the tendency can also be that, "Oh, I can still do it all."

And that's a big no, that's a big recipe for disaster in my mind, both in terms of your professional role and just your private person and your mental health and burnout and all of those things. And so having somebody who you can confidentially enter into a discourse with, who can be trusted to consider all of those professional and also personal factors that go into that decision, I think is my best advice.

Thank you. And I'm so glad you brought that last bit up because I was thinking about how as academics, we always hear about the tripartite mission and we need to contribute to teaching, service, scholarship. And so I was very curious about that. As people move up in leadership roles, can they manage to continue to do all three or do they have to make adjustments along the way?

Yeah, and I think that's difficult. And I think the answer for that is going to look differently for each person depending on what faculty role they have and what the institution guidelines are and what it means and where are they in the stage of promotion and advancement. And so many things come into that. And I think it's really important to just consider all of those factors and consider what your preference is also. I think yes, you're so right. We talk about the mission of academia and what we're supposed to be doing. And of course we all selected and chosen to be here for those key reasons. But when you have these forks in the road, I think it's also important to kind of say, "Well, yes, but what's my own personal mission? Where am I going to be fulfilled? And what's going to really get me excited to come to the office physically or virtually every day of the week as well? And does that align with this institution or with the department or with where I am? Is that feasible here?"

And I think those are really important questions to ask, and there're really important answers to get from people who are brave and courageous to give you the correct answer.

Thank you. Such wise words of advice. Thank you. So as you reflect on the different roles that you've had to date, how would you say you go about supporting or expanding education in your profession or through your roles?

So I think this is particularly relevant to me and to our school right now because under our new dean who I mentioned earlier, she started here at Rollins last July. We started a new process, a new strategic planning process in the fall. And we're almost now on the tail end of that wrapping up the strategic planning for the next five years. And again, it's been an incredible learning experience to go through this process and to really lay out a roadmap that is going to guide our actions and our efforts and our resources. And so a big part of this plan, of course, is the educational mission of the school.

And so while it's not entirely finalized, I know that it's going to have a strong component because again, what you mentioned, the three pillars of what we do. And so I think that it's not going to somehow be earth-shattering or novel, but it's going to be earth-shattering and novel for us as a culture here at Rollins in ways in which we can re-envision what we do and how we deliver education and training. And so I think stay tuned for more to come, but expanding education in our profession in public health through this role, I think is going to be a key part of the strategic planning. And I'm so excited to embark on those action plans and work with our teams to make that happen.

That is so exciting. So exciting. And when the strategic plan is officially out, I will make sure to post a link to it so that people can see it.

Perfect. That's wonderful.

So as I think about you helped lead a re-accreditation, you've worked on a strategic, a new strategic plan, and I'd love to hear what would you say contributed to your biggest successes thus far?

Yeah, so I think this was one of the easier questions for me to address because I am so aware and so conscious that without having the team of individuals that I work with and the leadership of this great school that we've had here for so long, and now under new leadership, all of this would not really be possible. So to me, being part of this exceptional team is part of the success. Also, I would say the way that I show up in my role and the way in which I can bring what I have to offer as a person, as a professional to this role is also because to me it's important to not have my whole identity wrapped into just my work. And so I love what I do and I am a person who's excited to come to work every day.

So maybe not every day, there's some hard days, but like 95% of my days, okay, let's just be honest. So as much as I love what I do, I think that having my identity just be solely wrapped up into my work would just be too narrow for me in a way that wouldn't really allow me to bring my best to my work. And so ultimately I think it would be not sufficiently satisfying and that would not make me the best that I could be in my role. So therefore I think that to a degree that I can say I've been successful is due to the support system that I have at work, but also outside of work, my faith community, I have a nine-year-old son who keeps me grounded in the real important things in life, such as when is my new soccer game and can we go to the next gas station to find the next prime drink flavor that I don't have for my collection?

So these are key things we have to deal with on a daily basis that balance out everything else that happens at work. And so when I come here, I come refreshed because there's multiple identities that are really important to me. And so it's not just one thing.

I love that. I think it's so important for us to recognize how much our personal and professional identities are in inbuilt in that and that we shouldn't be sucked up by one or the other. Which is going to make me tweak the next question a bit, and this is what are your biggest growth opportunities, whether personally or professionally?

Okay, yeah, you threw something in there, so I hear that. So definitely I think professionally growing more in my leadership approach, the delegation piece that I mentioned, managing multiple tasks and sometimes the pressure that comes from that. And I think that spills over into the personal question as well, because multitasking sometimes involves figuring out all the work stuff and the family and the personal stuff. And sometimes I feel like, oh yeah, I can juggle this. This is like all the balls are in the air and they seem to be all falling down in a way that I can catch them. And then just when I think I got it, just so, a whole bunch of things drop and it's no longer so well-balanced and you have to regroup. So I think continuously having an eye out for that and making sure that those areas of your life that are really important to me, that I devote the time to them that is necessary. So I think that is a continuous growth opportunity.

Thank you. Thank you. So going back to your work for just a second, what do you love most about your work and what you do?

So I love the most the people I work with, the students and my peers and my colleagues and just knowing that I am just part of something bigger that's bigger than just what we do here on a day-to-day basis. So it's really knowing that I am part of a puzzle that if it was just that part of the puzzle, it wouldn't be as great as if we all put our puzzle pieces together to create this tapestry that we call Rollins School of Public Health and we're educating these really great students and scholars and professionals to go out in the world and do the things that we believe are so important to do. And just reflecting back and thinking, "Oh, I really had a small role in that and I contributed to that in some ways", that is just really meaningful and impactful for me.

That's wonderful. Wonderful. And building off of that for a second, as you reflect on your experiences to date, what would you say if somebody was to ask you what are your passions around education or what is your education philosophy?

So yeah, I think I would point to two extremes. And in my field, in social sciences, we talk about the social ecologic model a lot. So we talk about the individual level and then we go broad all the way to societal, institutional level. So if I could speak of it from those two ends at the institutional level, I'm just so grateful to be in a position where I can help shape the educational priorities in public health at our school. I think that's a real privilege and it's also a significant responsibility to know that the programs, the structures that we put in place to educate and train students and community partners and other professionals who seek to further elevate and advance the great work of public health, that they come here and that we're designing the best possible opportunity for them to do that.

That is great at that level. And this is coming full circle because that is what gives me this real energy and drive to do that because I know it can impact a lot of people at larger scale. But then at the individual level, this is where we started, is you get the immediate impact from working with students who are so passionate about learning. And it's still so meaningful to me to have those one-on-one interactions and opportunities for mentorship. And just seeing someone's journey up close is also such a privilege. And I'm just so thankful to all my students because they seek me out to learn and grow from me. And little do they know that I learn and grow from them in return so much more as well. And so I really cherish those opportunities and those relationships as well.

Oh, I love that. I always tell people that as educators, we're constant learners.

Yes, absolutely.

And I love you talked about it when we were talking about personal and professional. So recognizing you are more than your career, what are other things that you do outside of work to help maintain joy in life and practice?

Yes. So I mentioned I have my son who is nine years old, he's finishing fourth grade. I love, love, love to travel. And I have been fortunate that I've been able to do so quite a bit before I became a parent and now I get to take him to all my favorite places and experience them through his eyes, which is just such an exciting opportunity. So if I couldn't do what I do now or I just had the leisure to do whatever I wanted to do, I would probably just travel the world and live in different places for months at a time and just keep on going. So that's really my overarching passion in life, just to see new places and experience new people who are different and see life differently and just learn from that. So I love to do that. And when I can't do that, I watch it on TV and I live vicariously through people who do it. And yeah, those are some of my top ones. Eating good food.

Which goes very well with the handy traveling to different places to taste it.

It does. It certainly does.

So as somebody who is also a travel bug, what are your current top three favorite destinations?

Great, great question. So the next one on our list for December this year is going to be Cape Town, South Africa. And that is actually a place where I had the great opportunity to live for a year early on in my career when I was managing one of those projects that I mentioned earlier on. And so I made some great connections and great friends who lived there. I visited back after the project ended a few times, but I have not been in about 15 years now. And so I think my son is now at a place where he can appreciate what that means. And so we're going to take the plunge and do that.

I'm so excited for this trip and I just can't wait. I think other ones are, I have not traveled to Asia yet, so I would love to travel to Vietnam is one of my top ones. And then the other one would be South America, specifically Peru, and to see some of the ruins and some of that ancient culture there. But it's a tough question because I could give you a whole other list, and I know that's not the point of this podcast, but I could go on and on. So those are top three, but there's so many competing places.

And that is why we will take that part of the conversation offline to exchange notes and all of that since I understand that love for travel. So those were my main questions for you for today's episode. But before I let you go, any last words of wisdom that you'd like to share for aspiring educators or education leaders?

So thank you so much Ulemu for this opportunity to share about my experience and for inviting me during this time. I would say just follow that passion and what's in your gut in terms of education and how you want to be involved in educating the next generation of students and leaders out there, whatever your discipline is. I think just listening to that voice is important. That tells you that there's something in you that is educating others is such a giving thing to do. Education is more than just sitting in front of a classroom and teaching, although it can be that, and that can be very rewarding, but it can be mentoring and advising and really I think we can probably all point to somebody in our history by name and probably by day and time when we sat in the chair and something meaningful that we still remember that impacted our trajectory to today. And so we can be that to many, many students today. And so I would say go and do it.

Thank you so much. Those are wonderful words to end on.

Thank you.