It’s me, Mark Stone, and in this episode of the Backseat Driver Podcast, I welcome back Joe Pep for a thought-provoking discussion on the decline of some of Britain and America's most iconic car manufacturers.

Together, we look back at legendary marques such as Jaguar, Rolls-Royce Motor Cars, Cadillac, and Pontiac, examining how corporate mergers, changing priorities, and shifting market demands altered the fortunes of once-proud automotive brands.

We explore the rise and fall of British Leyland, discussing the challenges of management, industrial relations, and quality control that contributed to the decline of the British motor industry. Joe also reflects on the changing character of American cars and how many modern vehicles have become increasingly similar in design and purpose.

The conversation considers whether today's cars have lost some of the individuality and personality that once made automotive ownership such a passionate pursuit. From chrome-laden classics to the increasingly uniform vehicles of the modern era, we examine what has been gained, what has been lost, and whether the industry can ever recapture the magic of its past.

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I'd like to welcome back to the backseat driver, the one, the only, Joe Pep.

Joey the Pencils.

He's back again.

I can't get rid of him.

Hey, we thought after the revolution we were shut of the Americans, but no, the colonials are back again.

But yes, my faithful contact over in the good old US of A.

Today we are going to talk about.

It's a subject that off air we've discussed on many occasions and it is basically the demise of the British and US motoring manufacturers.

And it's sad to see.

I mean, in England we had Jaguar, Jaguar have now become a force, but we had all the great mix.

We had Singer, we had Riley, we had Hillman, we had all sorts of manufacturers that were gradually absorbed into British Leyland.

And we all know what a shambles British Leyland was.

It turned out to be the perfect way of killing the British motoring industry.

Morgan is now Italian, owned by a handling company.

Rolls Royce and Bentley are owned by BMW and Volkswagen.

The list goes on.

In fact, the most British car you can buy is a Japanese one.

But talking to Joel, you suddenly discover that the great names, Bewick, Studebaker, Kreisler, Pontiac, they all got absorbed a lot of them by general mortise, of course, which in our instance incorporates Vauxhall and Opel.

Fiat and such like, are all now part of Stellantis, which they claim is an Italian company, but as we all know, it isn't an Italian company.

Or all the individuality of the European cars after these amalgamations completely vanished, they all now look alike.

They are all as equally boring as each other.

And I say that because a lot of friends of mine have said a lot of the modern cars are staggeringly boring.

They have no character, no style.

Suv.

Why does everybody need an suv?

I don't know why everybody needs an suv.

I have a little Fiat Panda, which is technically an suv, but it isn't.

And by the looks of it, in America you either now drive a pickup truck or even the great Joe Pep himself drives a Japanese car.

So once again, Joe Pep, welcome back to the backseat driver.

Mark.

Thank you so very much.

And my friends over in the UK hope you're having a splendid evening or day when you listen to this, even.

After that somewhat depressing introduction.

Geez, it's been a tough week.

It's been a tough week.

And you know, here in where my studio is in North Carolina, as they would say, it's hotter than a biscuit and it's already 90 degrees outside and it's going on quarter after 12 in the afternoon over here.

But you know what you were talking about, Mark, is you know, when you grow up.

My father had a 50 Chevrolet and the dashboard was all metal.

And in the 60s he had a 66 Mercury Monterey.

Beautiful car.

And that's when they started adding this like foam padding for the dashboards.

Yeah.

Okay, well.

And it was a good car.

It was a solid build automobile, just like Chevrolet, just like Ford.

Yeah.

And when you looked at it, and I could recall some things like where the steering column was, the plastic housing that fit the steering wheel didn't line up right.

You know, it just seemed that things that would never pass snuff back in the day were being let go.

Now what I hear, and if anybody heard differently, but I always heard that the unions screwed up the car industry.

Very much as in England.

Very much as in England.

And you know, the, I knew people that bought new Chevrolets that you could hear them coming down the street because the car was squeaking.

How can a new car squeak?

Yeah, you know, the, it's just the quality of the machine, you know, it was.

Because Chrysler's going out of business.

Which they didn't.

But Lee Iacocca had just turned, got in.

Yeah, I thought it was a nice looking car.

I thought it was well put together, you know, But I had a friend of mine that bought a, a Chevrolet and he's pulling out of the car dealership and the car broke down, you know, and you're like.

And people would say a Chevrolet, you know, they were always a well built machine.

And of course, there was a girl that I was dating in high school back in 19.

She had a Volkswagen.

Yeah, she had a, she had a 63 Volkswagen.

And you couldn't kill the thing.

Yeah.

You know, it sounded like a sewing machine, but you couldn't, you couldn't kill it.

But what I found, like with the European cars versus the American, American cars, you would have a door that was close to like 10 inches wide.

Yeah.

Whereas the European cars were very, very thin.

Yeah.

About, about 10 centimeters wide, if you were lucky,.

You know.

Yeah.

What a piece of junk.

I mean, that was my opinion.

Yeah.

Because I mean, Cadillac along with Lincoln were like, they were like basically that your equivalent of Rolls Royce.

I mean, before that, the equivalent of the American Rolls Royce was the Packard.

But I think Packard went out of business a long while ago, didn't they?

Packard.

Well, what happened was Packard, the designs of Packard, if you look like right after the war, they made these gigantic cars that they were nicknamed the bathtub.

Yeah.

Okay.

And the designs were more for the older driver.

Yeah.

Okay.

So mind you, at the time, it was only the older driver that could probably afford one.

True.

You know, the retired banker, you know, the someone that had money.

Yeah.

And their designs were really how, how can I say, fall asleep at the wheel type of design.

Yeah.

You know, that's my opinion.

I mean, you may have listeners out there that say, what's he talking about?

They were great looking car.

Hey, you know, art in art, it's.

Everybody has their own taste, you know.

But toward the 50 of the late 50s, they came out with the Packard Caribbean.

Yeah.

And on the headlights had a cow.

That was, that you could see in Ford's.

Yeah.

And Lincoln's.

And it was a great looking car.

But by the time they came out with that design, it was, they were going downhill.

So they teamed up with Studebaker.

Yeah.

Now Studebaker started off in the United States making wagons.

Yeah, with wagons.

So, you know, these were the, these were the wagons that were at the, the docks unloading stuff, you know, cargo and everything and.

Yeah.

Bringing, weighing and everything else.

And then in the early 20th century, they started off with horse, horse carriages and that.

So they thought that Studebaker and Packard could save it.

But the last hurrah was with Studebaker and they created the Avante.

Yeah.

Which our mutual friend Vic Piano has.

Yep.

And they were.

To me, that, that was like, wow, this is like the car of the future.

It was a very, very stylish car.

I mean, very powerful car, very fast car.

But it was definitely different.

Was the Avante especially at the front.

Yes.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

I mean, they had a square headlight they hadn't had.

The last car that had square headlights was a, a car built in the 30s called the Gram G R a H a M. Yeah.

And I believe the, the cord C O R D. Yeah.

The nose was at an angle and it really had no grill to it, but it was a, it was a Sharp looking car.

And as a kid, for my birthday, my father bought me a.

A model car.

Model was an Avanti.

And what was really neat was that the plastic was already colored red.

Yeah.

So all you had to do was put it together.

You had to paint it or anything like that.

Yeah, but.

Yeah, the.

It was a great looking car, but that was another automobile that died on the vine.

But you were saying about Cadillac and people like that.

I mean, the other great make is Lincoln, but that's now part of Ford.

It's just a posh.

Ford is a Lincoln.

But I mean, Cadillac seem to have constantly died the death over the past few decades from producing beautiful cars and desirable cars and cars that you see winning at the concourse at pebble beach and things like that you.

You never really see.

Now to go back to one of our old subjects on the tv.

You never really see Cadillacs anymore.

The, the big limos are all Lincolns, but as I said, a Lincoln is nothing more than a Ford.

So, I mean, when did the rot set in for people like Cadillac?

Well, Cadillac, old American car company.

The oldest one I seen was an 03.

So it was back in the horseless carriage days.

Yeah.

And then you had a.

With Cadillac, you had the La Salle.

So that was like a step down from Cadillac.

And they produce beautiful cars again.

Our friend Rick Piano knows a ton of information on the La Salles.

But when the war came, they discontinued the La Salle.

Yeah.

And it just became Cadillac.

Cadillac copied the tales of the P38 World War II Army Air Corps airplane.

And that was the birth of the tail fin.

The.

In the late 40s, they had the Torpedo or they, you know, I was raised calling it a torpedo back, but they call it a fastback.

Yeah.

And when I had my radio show, the.

There was a gentleman I interviewed and he had this.

I think it was a 48 or a 49 Caddy that was restored from head to toe.

Yeah.

Look brand new.

Beautiful car in the 50s.

Big tail fins, you know, you could always tap, you know, when this car was coming down the street.

But then, you know, as time went on, the designs changed.

In the 70s, they started getting, I don't know, boxy looking.

The El Dorado.

They stopped making convertibles.

Yeah.

No.

You know, and as a friend of mine said from Joyce, hey, put a.

F and roll bar in it, you know.

But in the late 70s, they came out with this boxy look and it was identical to like a Chevy Malibu that was Boxy.

Yeah.

And it was, it was horrible.

You know, see, that's the problem.

It's like when you grow up in the United States with all these great looking cars and then they start producing this stuff and they're charging a high price for it.

Yeah.

And a friend of mine, friend of mine said, yeah, he says it looks like they took all the Chevy emblems off and they put on Cadillac emblems.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, the thing is the buying public, the customers will notice this, won't they?

I mean, the guy that normally buys the Cadillac will think, well, what am I getting for my money, for my extra money?

And is it buying me the prestige that I want through buying a Cadillac when I could go and buy a Chevy or a Chrysler that's more or less the same damn car for a lot less money.

Two seater, not two seater, two door.

It was, I thought it was nice.

You know, my friends would say, joe, what are you buying an old man's car for?

Then of course, when you have a nice long drive down to the New Jersey beaches, they're saying, hey, this is really nice.

This is comfortable.

I says, well, you can either drive with me or drive in that piece of junk you're driving.

So I had a lot of friends, I had a lot of friends back then.

But the 70s and the 80s, the, my company that I was working for in Manhattan, we opened up a sales office in Connecticut.

So they got me a, an automobile.

And at first, the first one they gave me was a Thunderbird.

Yeah.

What a piece of junk.

And this was just, it was garbage.

And then they got me a Toyota Camry.

Yeah.

And it was a station wagon.

What a well built automobile.

Because that's one thing I was going to ask.

When did the Japanese car start appearing in America?

Yeah, in the 80s.

Yeah, the 80s.

Yeah.

And what was the American, what was the American attitude towards them?

Yeah.

So, yeah, he lived through everything.

And, and I remember saying to him, we had a discussion about cars and it's like, why buy a product?

Because it's in, in, you know, in, you know, Let me explain.

Let's see, my analogy was you buy an American watch.

Yeah.

Right.

And it falls apart and you pay good money for it.

But you buy a competitor's watch that's made in another country and it lasts much longer.

Yeah.

You know, just putting in.

The American watch manufacturer at the time was Hamilton.

Well, Hamilton certainly isn't an American watch brand anymore.

No.

I mean, you could buy a cheap watch, a Timex.

Yeah.

And.

But it's like, why buy a product just because, you know, your, your father had it and your grandfather had it, but now, now you have it and it's a piece of garbage.

So why support that?

Yeah.

You know, and I mean, we have, I call this my railroad station car.

Yeah.

And that car, you know, regular maintenance and everything else, but it's a reliable knock on wood machine.

Yeah.

You know, we also have a Toyota Scion.

Yeah.

Which I'm not thrilled about the design.

To me it looks like a shoe.

But I'll tell you one car that I really like, the design is the Chrysler Crossfire.

Oh, yeah.

Which ultimately was a Mercedes Benz.

Right.

Now I've heard where the ride is a hard riding car.

When I was in one as a passenger, I didn't think so.

But the.

I love the convertible and I love the fastback.

Yeah.

You know, but that, you know, that's me.

But it's like.

And then you have companies here in the United States, like Pontiac, old school automobile.

They went out of business.

Oldsmobile.

Oldsmobile was always considered the sports car.

Yeah.

Of the General Motors.

The Chevrolet was the working man's car.

Yeah.

Okay.

Now getting to Ford.

Ford was the working man's car.

And Lincoln Mercury, which was under Ford was the sports car.

Yeah.

Three car.

So, you know, it's like that, that Lincoln Continental Mark 5 that you like.

Yeah.

With, with the Continental kit, when that came out in 75, 76.

Fantastic car.

Remember going to the New York auto show and seeing that and it was the color that you like.

It's like a dark navy blue.

Yeah.

Like a khaki interior and a khaki half roof.

Yeah.

Beautiful car.

But, you know, now, and I have to agree with you, all these cars look almost the same.

And with SUVs, I mean, you had the station wagon.

Okay.

Then that went to the vans in the 70s.

By the way, for the English listeners, a van is what the Americans refer to, as, we call it an mpv, a people carrier.

Oh, well, we gotta have those people carriers, don't we?

Now, but how Chrysler comes out with a van that has windows around the side and it has, you know, eight seats to it.

Yep.

And that changed everything.

And then you got into the SUVs.

But I mean, these SUVs, these monsters, I mean, I could see at the end of my block if it was a very dense jungle.

Yeah.

You know why?

You know, I mean, it's, you get in it, it's nice riding.

Now my future son in law, he has a, a brand new Toyota pickup truck.

Yeah.

And it's Mark.

It is such a tight fit.

You know, you think you get into this monstrosity where, you know, oh, it's a truck, you know, you're gonna have a lot of elbow room.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, not a fan.

And he, he told me, he says first chance he gets, he's going to get something.

Either, either.

Chevrolet.

Yeah, I think it's Chevrolet.

Gmc.

Yeah.

Or Ford.

One.

One of them.

One of them.

But the one thing about the Japanese cars and it's, it's the same here as it is with you and the same throughout the world, Toyota especially, although I don't think Honda are far behind.

It's the reliability, the longevity of these cars.

They don't really give you any problems, they just keep going.

And that's the one.

And the other thing is you get in, you flick a switch and not only will that switch work, it'll still feel like the day it left the showroom, but whatever it's operating will still operate.

Yes, yes, it's.

I'm sorry, no.

Unlike in England, I mean we had cars like the Morris Marina, which was terrible.

Then we got the Austin Allegro that was even worse and they altered the design of that because British Leyla wanted to put an old engine in it and the old engine wouldn't go in the modern design.

So they to alter the design to except the old engine.

And that was the car when it came out on a square steering wheel, I mean, what an absolute triumph of design.

Give a car a square.

And if you ever rode in an Allegro, you were fully convinced the road wheels were also square.

But the Morris Marina, which then morphed into the Morrissey Tal, which was an ital design body on an old car.

It wasn't a good design, so it made an old car look even worse.

The Marina was actually a better looking car than the car that replaced it.

Jaggy War.

I mean, I can remember it was all brought about by a man who they affectionately referred to as Red Robbo down at British Leyland or Leyland Motors or whatever name they decided to go by that day.

He called strikes every day.

I mean, my father had a Jaguar and the glove box lid would open and close correctly.

It was regarded as quite an exceptional car, was my father's because things on it actually fit and worked for a degree.

The one thing that went against that one was on the motorway one day the prop shaft fell off.

But I mean, even our luxury cars were terrible.

You look at Rolls Royce, the best car in the world.

They went from the shadows which with the first Rolls Royce design for their allness to drive into a big boxy thing that was often referred to as the overpriced 4 Granada because it was nice inside.

But the great thing about being inside it was you couldn't see the outside when you were inside.

I mean, it's just gone gradually worse.

You now you look at the great American car designers and there were some absolutely unbelievable designers.

The Italian designers who brought us some stunning cars.

And these designers were all seemed to be swept away because the manufacturers wanted a designer who came up with boring because boring was easy to manufacture.

But if you're making, if you're making something that's going to cost well.

Henry Ford.

Right.

Bad cars here in the United States that were made for the captains of industry.

Yeah.

Okay.

They started off at $5,000.

Yeah.

You know, so Ford, he starts building Model Ts where it was a two year salary at $250 for a model T Ford.

So this was the working man's car.

Yeah.

They were well built.

I know guys that have Model Ts here in North Carolina and when they rescued where the car hadn't started 90 years.

Yeah.

So TLC start cranking the end.

The engine still had oil in it and things started up within two hours.

I mean, of course you had to.

Had to have it done correctly.

Yeah.

But I feel what's going to happen in our lifetime is that it's like that movie with Will Smith where he's in the future where you have the option of driving.

Yeah.

But when you get onto a highway, the government's gonna basically lock you in at that speed.

And I see that happening and I think like in 100 years from now, it's if you need transportation, a vehicle of some sort, like almost like a taxi cable.

Come to your home.

Yeah.

And take care wherever you need to go.

But to me it's if you do it right the first time, there's no going back.

And that's my motto when I do automotive art.

Yeah.

It's listen to the customer, what they want, what they're looking for, and then in your way, design something that they will be very happy with.

Yeah.

And when they see it, I go for the wow factor and that, wow, this is great.

And then I know I can cash my checks, but it's.

Does it really hurt to give a good product?

So now all these car companies are going robotic.

Okay.

We've, we've known that years ago, you know, and we could see it coming in and coming in and coming in.

But if you're going to build a product that's garbage, then why support that, you know, don't buy a car in the United States.

To see a Jaguar when I was a kid was like, that was nice looking.

I always remember the two seater Jags.

Yeah, the E types.

Right.

And then you had the Jaguar.

I did a commission on a Mark 5.

Yeah.

Okay.

That looked more like a limousine.

Had a landau roof with a landau bar.

Ambles on.

But I have a funny story to tell your audience about the Ford carnot.

If I may.

Yeah.

And it was nice.

It was nice looking, you know, I mean it was square.

It was metallic silver and had red pinstripes on it and a half red landau roof.

The interior was like a soft material.

I can't remember what it was.

But anyway, we go to the racetrack up in New Jersey.

So having a great time.

The girls that we brought along, of course I was single then.

I don't know.

So had a great time and now we're walking back to the car.

Where's the car?

It's gone.

Yep.

So now we're searching for it.

Well, maybe we parked it in this aisle.

Maybe we parked.

So we go to.

In the United States, the racetracks are basically the security is the state police.

Yep.

So we go to the New Jersey state police office and we tell him we believe that the car was stolen.

And he goes, what type of car was it?

State troopers said they stole the curtain.

Oh God.

You know, it was just like as in the other state troopers, they're starting to lose.

I think the other thing where the demise of it all came in, besides the unions constantly making a mess of it all and never realizing that the manufacturers had to Make a profit to pay them wages.

The more they were on strike, the less they produced, the quality diminished, but they seem to think that they'd be able to sell the product for even more money.

And it didn't work.

But where it also set in, the demise was when accountants started running everything.

And of course, the quality of a car and the looks of a car mean nothing to an accountant, providing the accountant has a nice car parked outside, of course.

That's right.

That's right.

And, you know, it's like you start cutting corners.

I mean, you're.

You're driving a machine that when you're doing speed limits around here, or up to 70 miles an hour.

Yep.

And it's.

You want to call it safe.

Yeah.

You know, it's like you look at ads from 100 years ago where it would say less rattles or no rattles or safe car or change rip.

You know, it was like all these features, you know, but when you're in a wreck, you know, you want.

You want something that's safe.

And you mark being a race car driver, you know that if there's an accident, it's like you want some kind of safety involved.

That's why you wear a helmet.

You wear the helmet.

You have the big full cage inside it.

You have the seats, the harnesses, and everything else that you hope will assist you.

And in my instance, back in the mid-80s, yes, it did all work and it worked very well.

But, you know, it's like you start cutting corners.

Yeah.

And, you know, it's like when you get in the car, you pray to God that when you put your foot on the brake.

There's a brake.

Yeah.

And nothing that goes right to the floor.

But, you know, it's.

Over the years, it's.

I had in right out of college, I had a.

Yeah.

Easton.

And that car, you could stand on the hood.

Yeah.

And it wouldn't buckle.

Yeah.

You know, and.

But that's the technology that they had available.

And there's a video for your listeners.

You have to find it.

But it's a.

Yep.

And Bat and Powell.

The 59.

If you were sitting in that car, that steering wheel would come right up into your chest.

I mean, it folded up like an accordion.

Yeah.

But, you know, to me, it's.

If you have these Airbag curtains and in the front and the back.

You know, again, when you're driving at these high speeds and if something happens, you want to.

You want to walk away from it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So can you imagine being T boned?

Yeah.

And that glass is going all over the place.

If the crash didn't kill you, the class.

But I can remember in the early 60s when there would be advertisements for safety class, you know, that you don't.

That you don't see anymore.

Yeah.

They used to put that on.

This car has zebra zone windscreens which if it.

If it was punctured, it would craze.

It wouldn't come through on you.

It would just shatter into tiny pieces.

But the tiny pieces will all stay intact within the surround of the windscreen.

And, you know, with house glass.

The old house glass.

Yeah.

It's like a razor.

Yeah.

You know, along.

And when he had his car restored, he had that glass removed and put in stinky glass.

Yeah.

And he goes.

He always gets knocked down at a concourse.

Yeah.

Because it's not the original, but it's like, you know what?

My life's more important than a trophy.

Yeah.

You know, but I think it's safe to say if you look at it, not only was it the accountants, but governments got involved with cars.

And governments really shouldn't.

I mean, we have a government at the moment that gets involved with everything and shouldn't.

Probably the same in the States over the years.

They don't realize that killing the car industry not only creates untold unemployment, but it's like the classic cars.

They wonder why people like classic cars.

Well, if you're into cars, it's the old ones that have character.

Modern cars, I said in the intro, modern cars have no character whatsoever.

They don't involve their driver.

They don't make you want to go and get in them.

There is the odd one out there that has all the ticks.

And then we get onto the.

Well, we won't talk about this because I hate them.

Electric cars.

I mean, they have all the charm of driving around in a microwave.

They are just terrible things.

But I mean, I don't know what the America, I mean, European manufacturers, Japanese manufacturers are killing off their electric cars.

Nobody wants them.

And I get the feeling it's the same in the States with like Ford and Chevrolet.

They're Cutting back dramatically on their electric cars because nobody's buying them.

Before, before the pandemic here in the United States, they had, I remember reading where the government was going to phase out all fossil fuel government cars.

Yeah.

And bring in all.

And they were considering.

With Ford and Chevrolet.

Yeah.

Electric vehicles.

That ain't happening.

No.

You know, I've heard stories over here where companies will want to have a fleet of electric vehicles.

Yeah.

And the government of particular states here say we can't do.

We can't supply you the electric that you need.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, if you have a fleet of 300 trucks or vehicles, the state.

The state can't.

Can't do it.

No.

You know, I mean, we have this like right now it's getting to be around 95 degrees outside.

Yeah.

Or as they say in North Carolina, hotter than a biscuit.

And what they do is the electric companies will brown out.

Yeah.

Certain areas.

So it's like a balancing act.

Yeah.

So if they're doing that to households, I mean, hospitals, they got their own generating systems.

They're fine.

But if you're doing that now, how can you support electric vehicles?

Yeah.

You know, I, you know, you go back when automobiles were running on kerosene.

Not everybody had gasoline in those camps, you know.

And then after you had electric vehicles, which were very popular with women because it was, in essence, it was like driving an electric golf cart.

Yeah.

And any of your listeners want to look up.

It's called a baker Electric.

That was very popular.

And that was what I was told, where the term backseat driver came from.

All right.

Because it was, it looked like a.

Look like a box.

Yeah.

On four wheels.

And so when you got in the car, you sat in the back with a tilt.

Yeah.

Okay.

But looking in front of you was another.

Like a couch.

Yeah.

And that's when your passengers.

So my thought is, can you be, can you imagine your mother in law being really upset with you and.

And you got to drive her home and you're looking right at her.

But yes.

Look up Faker electric.

I believe they were out of St. Louis or Detroit.

Jay Leno has one.

But with gasoline, with fossil fuels coming in, it knocked down the kerosene industry with automobiles and it killed the electric car market, the steam market.

Steam powered locomotive automobiles.

And then you have gasoline.

Yeah.

But I think it's safe to say that you're a little bit older than me.

Not a lot that we enjoy growing up with some very stylish cars, interesting cars, and an automotive industry that was proud of what it manufactured and what it turned out.

And it wanted you to choose them over their competitors.

But as time went by, all the competitors became one thing.

And the, the even worse thing about that was they all started to look alike.

You bought a badge that was roughly about it.

I mean, the famous Morris Miner, I think the old one did escape to America, but the Morris Miner also became a Riley and it became a Wolseley with different badges.

Same with the Issigonis Mini.

Give it a boot.

It became a Riley Elf and a Wolseley Hornet.

But ultimately it was still the Mini.

Badge engineering started early, but even then they were still relatively distinctive.

But yes, as I said, it was the unions and in my opinion, the accountants and the gullible buying public that allowed COIs to become as terrible as they became, only to be replaced by blobs on wheels.

No character whatsoever.

They all complain about the Japanese cars, do a lot of people.

But the one thing is you buy a Japanese car, you're buying good value for money as a rule.

As a rule, you're also buying very, very good quality, build quality.

And you're buying reliability that'll last 10, 15, 20, 30 years and give you few problems.

So I think it's safe to say, Joe Pep, we enjoyed the best of the motoring.

It's, we've seen something that you'll never see again.

Yeah.

You know, and to me, for your listeners, it's take, take the kids to a car show.

Tell them you can't touch the car.

Okay.

But it's family, family time.

It's an educational time because you could tell them if you know something about Picard and it's getting everybody out of the house.

Yeah.

You know, we had our cars and coffee here, Wilmington, North Carolina last week and we had over 800 cars.

Yeah.

Two year cars, brand new cars, classic cars, hot rods.

And it's really great when you see families that have their kids out.

Even there was a little, little guy and he had a hot wheels T shirt.

Yeah.

And we have this one session where when the cars are coming in to the event, they have to go over a speed bump.

This kid was in his glory.

Yeah.

You know, and seeing all the cars and me saying, and you know, he's sitting in this baby carriage with a hood and I'm thinking, damn, I wish I had a baby carriage with a hood.

I'd sit in it.

Kenny and wife not get you a wheelchair and a parasol.

But you know, it's, it's interesting to see.

I mean, we're at the beginning of all this new technology, you know.

Oh, but.

And we have every right to complain, but we're just a little cog in a big machine, you know, Are we going to be the guys that, like, you see these cartoons where you see this old gentleman and he's driving a Model T Ford while the rest of the world is with these rocket cars, you know, Is that what's going to happen?

Maybe.

I don't know.

But my son, he always makes fun of me.

He'll say, why, back in my day, we had regular gasoline, you know, not a plug.

But once again, Joe Pep, thanks very much for joining me on the backseat driver.

I dare say you will appear again.

I don't think I can keep you away from this now, but once again, Joe Pep.

Once again, Joe Pep, thanks very much indeed.

Thank you.

And everybody over in the uk, have a wonderful time, have a wonderful weekend and take those kids to a car show.