Have you’ve ever felt transformed after a walk by the sea or in the woods? Have you’ve ever found yourself reaching for the biscuit tin when anxious rather than hungry, or noticed how your pet knows when you are feeling low? This podcast is for you.

Clare and Aileen take you on a tour of some of those relationships we often don’t think about but matter deeply. From pets and nature to time, food and even life and the divine, these relationships have the ability to shape our lives, comfort us, challenge us and sometimes reveal parts of ourselves we didn’t know were there.

Dip into some of the things Clare and Aileen chat about in this episode:

00:24 How your pet can teach you about tuning into your senses and being present.

03:34 Nature – when did you last give yourself permission just to experience it.

04:49 Time: what is your relationship to it? Do you find you don’t have enough or are you able to make time for yourself?

12:14 Having a relationship with place, do you have a sense of belonging where you are?

17:49 Understanding your relationship with food.

23:46 Relationships with the divine, the higher power, the universe.

27:19 Embracing the idea that everything will come to an end helps to embrace and enjoy each moment.

Visit our website: The Sex and Relationships Podcast for more information on the issues discussed in this episode. You can also Ask Clare a question or suggest a topic for future episodes.

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About the Sex and Relationships Podcast

This podcast is for anyone looking for information or help with their sex lives or relationships.In this season your hosts Clare Prendergast and Aileen Gonsalves deep dive into the world of relationships to give you insights, advice and top tips to help guide you through your relationships.

Your hosts

Clare Prendergast is a sex and relationships therapist and draws on her knowledge and years of experience in the therapy room to give you help and guidance.

Aileen Gonsalves is fascinated in human behaviour and drawing on her many years in the theatre has developed the unique Gonsalves Method which helps people be more present and develop authentic connections with those around them.

Hi. Welcome to the Sex and Relationships podcast. I'm Clare Prendergast.

And I'm Aileen Gonsalves,

And we're here to talk about all thing’s relationships. We're going to be talking about all sorts of things that we have relationships with that aren't human beings but are significant relationships in our lives.

Yeah. I mean, it's so interesting because we've been talking about relationships with ourselves, and we often think about relationships with partners. Non-human beings, it's a really interesting sort of provocation. And it made me think of my first thought were pets. That's where I went straight away.

And I've just not long back from both walking my dog, and we've been to the vet for his quarterly flea and worm treatment. The joys of pet ownership! So, he's a happy boy, fast asleep beside me.

Yeah, I'm very jealous because I actually don't have a pet and haven't been able to because of living in a flat for 30 years or more now. What do you love most about having a pet?

Well, at this stage of my life, I'm living alone and having Bronny, who my granddaughter calls Barry. But having Bronny in my life, whilst I enjoy solitude and I enjoy my own company, Bronny protects me from any whiff of loneliness. When I come in, it's like, hiya. He comes out, hello. He sort of wags his tail and has a lean against me. And first thing in the morning it's good morning. At the end of my day, it's good night, and during my day he just is around keeping me company. But he's a Staffy cross and, they are the most soppy, loving dogs, and they just want to lean and lie against you.

It's interesting. I had an ex who had a cat and he absolutely loved the cat, you know. It was very clear that that relationship was a really deep love. And, you know, the cat loved him. My gosh, when he was ever sad or he was not well, she absolutely knew what was going on the whole time. You have to acknowledge that animals are absolutely tuned in. Their senses are kind of extraordinary. And it's a very interesting thing because I think it might help us tune into our senses that we've stopped really using as much as we should be. It makes you very present, I imagine, because of course, animals, whatever else they are always completely present. In theatre, we always say, don't ever work with animals or children, and it's simply because they're so present that everybody in the audience watches them before they watch you, because we'll always put our attention on the thing that is most present. We can't help it. And animals are gloriously in the complete now, in this moment.

Gosh. Gosh, I hadn't thought of that. All my pets, you know. And I've always I've always lived with pets. They've all, without exception, been allergic to tension. So, if tension arrives into the room, they'll do different things with it. So, I had a very small dog once who would just bark. But the larger dogs they leave the room. It's like zero tolerance for tension.

It's interesting, you say, about unrelentingly loving you. I always think of another thing that's not human, actually, which is sort of nature as being this thing that unrelentingly is loving us. Someone once told me, you know, if you're ever feeling sad or whatever, just look up at the sky. The sky is always there, you know? Nature is unrelentingly loving. It's sending out the sun. It's sending out colours of autumn, the spring, you know. And it's funny when you think of it like that, that we're surrounded by this thing that is just giving to us the whole time.

My experience of nature is more like a cat. Nature does its thing, irrespective of whether I notice or don't. My experience is it really doesn't give a monkeys whether I behold it and celebrate it and see it. It's just there knowing its gloriousness and doing its thing. And I guess for me the invitation is more do I want to organise my time and my days so that I do witness nature, that I do see this extraordinary phenomena that happens every moment of every day, whether or not I bother to notice.

Yeah, that's really interesting because, I mean, I can tell you now that I don't organise my time to do the thing that I most want to do, which is to be in it. You know, if I go for a walk in a wood or along the sea. I mean, my days utterly transformed. My moments transformed. Everything just changes as soon as I give myself the space. I think it's also about the time and space. Because what is my relationship with giving myself time? I mean, time is fascinating because I think my relationship with time is I think I'm utterly omnipotent and in control of it. And of course, it's not at all in our control time. You know, it's this thing that just is moving. It's like it just keeps going. You know, I've always had this thing of always pushing against the time, but because I think it's going to expand somehow. Terrible omnipotence.

It's interesting, isn't it? It is omnipotence. I had a teacher once who used to distinguish between chronos time and kairos time. And I found that really helpful because it allowed me to, to kind of have a, have a way of acknowledging that sometimes time does expand. If I'm very present, I can experience time expanding. It's like I don't want to get into kind of magical woo woo ness, but I suppose I do want to kind of have that phenomena in our mix that I can be sat with somebody and we're really connected and three hours is ten minutes and vice versa. Ten minutes can be three hours in terms of how it feels, but it isn't in terms of Chronos time, it was ten minutes is ten minutes is ten minutes. So, I guess what I'm bringing into this non-human thing, time is my relationship with it is different at different times.

Yeah, definitely. You said two words earlier. You said Chronos time and karos time.

Kairos time.

Yeah. What does that mean? What do they both mean? Chronos I'm assuming it's the clock.

What I what I understand it to mean is when we're moving into the more I mean, I loathe this word, but I'm going to use it into the more spiritual domain, into expansion, connection, the realm of possibility. As opposed to the contraction of one minute follows another minute.

Well, I think I sort of know what you mean, because I definitely know that feeling that you're describing, you know, especially when I'm working or rehearsing with actors in a room or sort of we all get into a zone, you know, people talk about flow state. So that's the state, I think, where we, we sort of feel like anything is possible, including time to always do what you want to do. Somehow everything is flowing. And I think that is the state of attention actually. I would say that is when your attention is outward focused and you're involved in something, sometimes that's sport or a hobby or even just when you're, you know, really cooking. And we get it in the arts a lot because our attention has to be out, because we're often having to be with other people, and we're continually getting ideas and needing to respond to ideas. And it's a very extraordinary thing where you do look at the clock and think, wow, I've got suddenly loads more time to work on that thing. So, I think because you problem solve much quicker and you get through things quickly in terms of when you're working.

But I think my great fear is that I'm wasting time. Two things when I feel like I'm going for a walk, or I don't see those moments as useful things to do with one's time. I'm so used to being on that treadmill. You know, I'm entering a period now where the extreme busyness, you know, 6 or 7 different projects in one week is calming down. And it feels really interesting today. You know, I think, oh, wow, what on earth will I do with that other time? Sometimes when I walk along the sea, I think, oh, I should go back now. I should go back now. And I think, why, why didn't I just keep stay walking? Maybe I'll go to a cafe. Maybe I'll just, you know, sit down on a bench for a bit. It's quite hard to actually give myself that time at the moment, but I'm hoping in the next month to actually really put my attention on that. So that's quite a good thing to talk about today, Clare.

I noticed you mentioned a few other relationships there in response to you, you sharing about flow state and you know, that's definitely worth looking up. I mean, lots of really important people have described that and we can access, you were talking about accessing flow state in the workplace, but I think we can access it. That sense of presence and being when we're in, well, you talked about walking along the beach or being out in nature, but also you referenced sport and cooking, you know, something like cooking, which can be a burden. It can the relationship with it can be resentful and just another demand on a squeezed life. But simultaneously, cooking can be, you know, the most kind of delightful activity of aromas and flavours and herbs and spices and colours, and it can be a deeply pleasing activity. You know, I worked with somebody who was really an amazing baker. It was her way after a busy working week of unwinding and coming back to herself was her relationship with in her case baking? It’s the same activity I'm baking or I'm cooking. I can do it as a, as a chore, a job, a task. I can do it as a form of self-expression and delight and get into flow state and it be nourishing. Nourishing to me and nourishing to the people I share the food with.

Absolutely. I have a very close friend who absolutely loves to cook. You know, it's a real release and it's a real moment to, as you say, come back to yourself. And I think that's what's interesting. It's this relationship with what these things do, these things that are not human. In a way, we're often doing them potentially on our own. It's a great chance to actually engage with something outside of ourselves, but that keeps us connected to ourselves because.

Because the other thing you referenced was sport. And I was thinking sport for me feels akin to cooking because it can be, you know, we can become completely obsessed with fitness and weight loss. And it's going to the gym and it's, you know, it's a stressful have to in our busy weeks. But equally, I mean my son's passionate about football and he's over the years had different experiences of being on teams and the experience of being in a group and collectively, over time, you kind of have a relationship on the pitch. You have a relationship off the pitch. Yes, it is my relationship with me and my body, but it's also my relationship with society. My relationship with my community, my ability to remember I belong is delivered through running around, kicking a ball with a bunch of mates.

We all want to sort of have a sense of belonging, and often that is with friends and family. But it is also things like, you know, I'm really aware of place at the moment in terms of that. In terms of, I've just I've just moved from London, where I've been for 30 years, to Bournemouth, which is really quite a shift. And I have to say, I love it down here and I'm really aware that it's a new relationship with an actual place. When I go back to London, I'm aware of the difference in the rhythm of the place, the noise, the sounds, the silence. You know, I've kind of brought my London driving ways to Bournemouth and people are just like, "no, no, that's fine you can come out that's okay." You know, they're just totally.... And I get so confused that everyone lets you cross the road and its completely different rhythm, let alone, of course, the different beautiful thing to be with the sea and you know, but how that relationship to starting again, it's been really interesting. You know, in terms of the people in this area or you know, the road, I have no idea of the roads. I cannot work them out. And so, it's been lovely trying to think to myself, right, I'm going to walk around and get to know the place, and you start to create your own little map of your world really, which has now suddenly changed.

We're so used to the way that we move around our world. An exercise I used to do actually might be interesting for people to think about is when they just walk.... In London I was walking to the tube every day and I'd go exactly the same way, and sometimes I'd invite people to sort of force themselves to literally just cross the road, cross the road as soon as you leave your house and walk down the other side of the road to get to the tube each day. It's such a strange thing to do. It really just wakes up our brains I think because you're now shifting your brain to suddenly have to go, oh, what are we doing? What are we doing? And I think we can get on automatic pilot so easily when we're in our familiar surroundings. So I would say, I don't think you have to quite move to Bournemouth, but I think it is worth crossing the road sometimes and/or sort of looking up as you walk along the road or looking down because interesting, you just give yourself a different perspective on where you actually are every day. And that can really help in terms of place to just wake up your relationship to where you just live right now.

So my relationship with place, you've described quite an extreme change going from, you know, literally the City of London and all its hubbub and hectic-ness and my sense, my judgment maybe of Londoners is everybody's doing their own thing. There must be multiple communities within London, but it isn't a city that makes me immediately think of community. It's a city that makes me think of, you know, everybody doing their own thing at great pace. But then when I think of Bournemouth, my prejudice there is kind of sleepy kind of... And I guess I deliberately used the word prejudice that neither of those judgments are going to have, there might be a grain of truth in both, but actually you bring it back to Aileen and my relationship with place, my relationship with London, my relationship with Bournemouth and really seeing the difference. And I'm struck as well by the thread you pulled on that because you went to that from me referencing belonging. And I wondered, do you feel a sense of belonging in Bournemouth yet?

Yeah. I mean, it's a funny thing to say because I'm brown, you know, I'm from Goa and my skin is brown. And so, I was one always has a sense of checking and where am I safe? Am I safe in this, wherever I am? And that happens really unconsciously. I don't consciously think about it. And in London, bizarrely, I feel entirely safe because I've been there so long and it's a multi diverse community and no one really cares what anyone looks like particularly. When I first moved to London, I'd come from Newbury in Berkshire, where everyone was entirely white, and actually it was a shock to be in London to see all that diversity, because that was completely new thing for me. And I was like, oh. And so, I come to Bournemouth and I notice I'm checking to see am I safe? I mean, my way. I'm sort of judging that is, I always say good morning to people. I think the best way to connect quickly is to just make eye contact and say, good morning. And I have to say, you know, Bournemouth's wins every time. Every single person responds. You know, they say good morning first. So that has been really brilliant for me. I do feel safe. When I walk along the sea, my gosh, that's absolutely what everyone's doing. The dog walkers and the sea walkers, you know, everyone really likes to engage actually, there. I mean, I always say that I think people really want to connect. So, the minute you do smile and say hello, people do immediately respond and kind of their whole face brightens up. I do love that moment where you have those very special moments with strangers, but they are very impactful, especially for me at the moment, because they really do reinforce a sense of safety, a sense of ease and starting to think, oh, I can relax. It's okay, it's okay.

We talked when we were chatting about this is, I put addictions. And then I thought, well, that's quite harsh, but distractions/self-soothers, you know. Things that I do that are, you know, either anesthetising at worst or just making me feel a bit better if I'm a bit under par. And I think we all have a go to around that. For some people it's a drink or it's a bar of chocolate or a, you know, let's go shopping. You know, all these behaviours are fine until they become compulsive and then they're problematic.

Yes. I mean, my gosh, got so many go to's. I mean, I think it's my main one really has always been is food. You know, and it's been interesting because in trying to sort of address it, it's this thing of people keep telling me just you need to just notice it. I'll tell you, it's so extraordinary to notice yourself literally feeling slightly unnerved. I feel something slightly worrying me or like something slightly wrong, and I immediately try and suppress it with food. But it's been interesting when you have to observe it because you're like, "wow, that's every time. That's what that's about." You know, I've always kind of said, oh, I'm a comfort eater. My mum used to say, I'm a comfort eater. And I suppose my relationship with food is having watched my mum's relationship with food and think, oh, I don't want to have that relationship that my mum has with food. You know, of course I've done exactly the same thing. So now I'm like, right, how do I stop doing that? And it is just this thing of then you have to be gentle with yourself because otherwise I get into an absolute spiral. But I'm interested because I'm hoping that I gently am going to address that by this thing of observing and really observing myself, because it does shock me when I realise, wow Aileen, why don't you just do something else? Just force yourself to do another thing.

Literally just touch your toes or something in that moment or stretch or anything, rather than because it's such a habit. My hand is going towards the fridge. It's like then it opens the fridge. Then I get the cheese. I'm like, God, what are you doing? You know. But it's sort of it's in all the time activity has to be monitored. Because if I suppose the thing that's replacing it quite rapidly is the phone, you know, kind of social media scrolling through Instagram. I thought, doomscrolling I didn't know what doomscrolling was. I thought it was looking at negative things. I was thinking, well, I don't do doomscrolling. I mean, I don't even still don't know what it is, but what I do is of course it's sending me the algorithm is sending me stuff that I've said I like, which is animal saving human beings at the moment. And of course, it has a story. And of course, I'm compelled by story. I want to know what happens next. And that's, of course, how these things are created. But I'm like, wow, will you please stop doing that? And that's a top tip at the moment, by the way, is I've put my phone into black and white mode and within one second you're not interested.

That's interesting. Okay. It's interesting you're saying your mom referred to comfort eating. I'm thinking it makes me think of my expression would be eating on my feelings. It's like I'm having some feelings. I don't like these feelings. So, I'll eat on them and they'll go back down. But essentially, it's using food to distract me from what's going on. And the invitation you've been given of just notice, notice, self-observe. I mean, these are, you know, significant spiritual practices. Self-observation is kind of seen as a cornerstone really. It's the key to liberation. And yet it is the antithesis of what eating on my feelings or going on my phone is delivering. Those behaviours are when I say they anesthetise; I've got uncomfortable feelings. I want to block them out. I'm going to do something to numb me. Whereas Self-observation is the opposite. Its self-observation is. Oh, what is that feeling? Oh, ouch. 000, gosh. That's actually quite painful or. Oh gosh, I'm actually quite frightened or, you know, whatever it is, and having the confidence and the courage to be able to kind of reassure myself, it's okay. Yes, these feelings are really uncomfortable, but it's okay. You've got this. You can do this instead of reaching for that drink or reaching for that slab of chocolate.

It's kind of like it's both. How easy is that notice, self-observe. I mean, where's the difficulty with that? It's like, yes, it is seemingly incredibly easy. And yet it's the observing that I'm doing these things because I'm in pain. And if I'm going to self-observe, then I'm going to be drilling into why am I in pain? What is causing me pain? And it's likely I need to do something different or make a change. But I think just being awake to the fact that this is another relationship, and how am I conducting this relationship? Am I conducting it in a way that is life giving and allowing me to grow? Or am I using this relationship in a way that is life limiting and shutting me down and closing the door on possibility and opportunity?

So I think we've probably covered most of the things that we were we were wanting to talk about. I mean, there's always going to be more probably for today that's enough. Is there anything burning for you that you want to cover before we complete today?

Well, the only thing that I thought of, which is a hilarious thing to have as a kind of additional thing, but is God. You know, the higher power in our lives. Whatever people have as God or Allah or, you know, that higher power thing. We've sort of touched on it when we've been talking about spirituality because, you know, I've had many different relationships with religion and God, you know, I was brought up Catholic. But the higher power thing is really interesting in terms of not feeling lonely. You know, I have a really good friend who is suffering with a long term illness now, and they're at home all the time, every day. But they have this extraordinary relationship with their faith and with God. It's only extraordinary to me because I think, wow, because I don't have that as a kind of daily, and in terms of daily prayer, many people in this world have that that thing of prayer. And I think that's an interesting thing, whether you're praying to, you know, nature or you're praying or, you know, it's a thing about gratitude, these moments that we touch in to knowing there's something more than us, I think is powerful and mind's ever changing really. When I was younger, I had a very clear sense it was, you know, the Catholic faith, and it was a Catholic God. And once that's gone, it's been interesting because I have to really make a choice about it and really reflect on it. But I would say that sense of being part of a higher world, you know, it's not just me. And I do love that. And I suppose I link nature to that because it's so awesome. You know, I just look and think, My God. And I always reference the word God interestingly. But, you know, it is for me that's an interesting person, the non-human relationship that is one that's ongoing in my thinking and feeling. Really.

I'm so chuffed you you've raised this, Aileen, because I think yes, you used the word God. Allah, you know, the different faith traditions and the different ways that people sort of express that non-human relationship. You didn't mention, some people talk about the universe or someone recently said to me, "I'm going to stop calling it the universe. I'm going to call it our universe." Sort of just bringing it in. But even those listeners who identify as atheists or identify as agnostics, you know, they are also in a relationship with this phenomena. It's a relationship that doesn't exist that isn't a thing versus that that does exist that is a thing. And I guess I shy away from speaking to it front on because it's loaded and it often activates people and it often can bring out strong emotions. But I guess that's the reason why you are absolutely right to raise it, because it is one of the many non-human relationships that we are engaged in wherever we stand on it and whatever tradition or practice we come from or we're currently living in, we will have a relationship with that, with the divine, the great I am, the other that you said higher power. You know, whatever language we use to describe it, chances are all of us are in a relationship with it in one way or the other. It's another relationship.

Yeah. Am I allowed another one? Which is another equally big one is death. You know, our relationship with life and death is the one that we really don't necessarily look at or want to look at or, you know, suddenly you're forced to look at it. You know, I told you, I think that my mum died very suddenly and that was a real we had to all look at it very fast. And then sometimes we think about doing our wills. But yeah, this thing that we know is coming, you know, if God is something we really don't know, death is something we definitely know is on the cards, but it's one that we definitely don't seem to want to address or necessarily think about.

And I think that's very culturally driven. I think depending on where in the world you're listening to us, you're going to hear you say that Aileen in a different way. I mean, I've been spending quite a lot of time in India in the last few years and been privileged to kind of hear people speak about death very, very differently to how I've experienced people speak about death in the UK or should I say, not speak about death in the UK. In some traditions, you know, it's a cause for celebration, certainly in this country generalising now, but the general perception is that it's sad and it's heavy and it's awful. But yes, my relationship with death, my own mortality, my own inevitability of my own death, but also the same with the people I love. You know, what is my relationship with it? Is it conscious? Am I talking about it or am I in a pretence and denying that reality, that one thing we all share. We are all going to die, every single one of us.

And of course, the glorious thing about it, if we could ever embrace it, and I'm not there yet. But is as soon as we embrace the death and we have a relationship with death that is really saying it's really going to happen. Of course, the opposite happens where we understand we have got to live. You know, we've got to live now. We've got to live now while we're alive. You get the real sense of realising this moment I've got with you right now will never happen again. Everything is dying all the time. Each moment in the next moment, it's gone. And in some ways, of course, that's wonderful, because our past is gone. You know, our relationship with the past, if only we could realise that would be freed up of a lot of anxiety. But, you know, things that have happened, have done. But then also, this moment is the moment where we are alive, and we really appreciate the person. We really appreciate the conversation. We really savour it, you know? And I'd love to get to that point. I mean, that feels like the ultimate spiritual moment when you go, ah, I'm really just living moment to moment, not in the past, you know, not fantasising about the future, but absolutely what is happening now and enjoying and appreciating it.

Ah, Aileen, I think on that note, I'm going to tie things up for today. Thank you so much for joining me and chatting with me about this subject. If you're interested in sort of following us or knowing more about us, you'll find us on social media and we have our website, thesexandrelationshipspodcast.com. Do feel free to get in touch. We've got a help page if you want to ask questions, we'd love to answer them. And yeah, see you next time. Thank you so much, Aileen.

Thanks a lot, Clare. Bye

Bye bye.