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Episode 14: Sharon Goldmacher - Digital Marketing is the Future
Episode 1422nd August 2022 • The Backstory on Marketing • Guy Powell
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About this Episode: In this episode of The Backstory on Marketing, Sharon Goldmacher expresses her insights regarding the future of digital marketing. She gives valuable information about The Metaverse, challenges marketers and public relations professionals face today, and the concept of combining traditional marketing with digital marketing.

About Sharon Goldmacher: Sharon Goldmacher is a seasoned digital marketing and public relations expert with 35 of years of experience in solving marketing challenges for a range of clients in industries from real estate, technology, CIDs, professional services, food and beverage, entertainment, sports and more.

Founded in 1992, c21 has garnered 80+ awards from AMA, PRSA, IABC and more, and has been recognized with a variety of business-related awards including DeKalb Chamber’s Stargazer award for “Small Business Start-Up of the Year”, Atlanta Ad Club’s Young Advertising Professional Award, “Best Place to Work” by the Atlanta Business Chronicle.

Sharon was tapped to join the University of South Florida’s Z School faculty as an instructor for its digital marketing certificate program and speaks to a variety of organizations on marketing and PR solutions.

As part of Sharon’s DNA, and she serves on several boards, including as co-chair for CREW Atlanta’s Communications Committee, the Atlanta Convention & Visitors Bureau Executive Board, the past presidents’ council of the American Marketing Association – Atlanta Chapter.

She is a graduate of Leadership Buckhead and will graduate from CREW Leadership in 2022. As the executive director of the Atlanta Local Organizing Committee, Sharon oversaw the planning and execution of the 2013 NCAA® Men’s Final Four® in Atlanta.

Sharon graduated cum laude from Newcomb College/Tulane University and worked at the NBC affiliate, WDSU-TV.

For fun, you can find Sharon on the golf course, cycling or walking her dogs around the ATL, in addition to discovering new eateries!

Links:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharongoldmacher/

https://www.c21pr.com/

https://marketingmachine.prorelevant.com/

Sign up for ProRelevant Emails:

https://mailchi.mp/prorelevant/newsletter 

Link to YouTube Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG9OnN_hLKs

Transcripts

Guy Powell:

Hi, I'm Guy Powell and welcome to the next episode

Guy Powell:

of the Backstory on Marketing. If you haven't already done so

Guy Powell:

please visit pro relevant.com. And sign up for all of these

Guy Powell:

episodes and podcasts. I am the author of the newly released

Guy Powell:

book, the post-COVID marketing machine, prepare your team to

Guy Powell:

win. And you can find out more information on this at marketing

Guy Powell:

machine.prorelevant.com. Today we're speaking with Sharon

Guy Powell:

Goldmacher. Sharon is a seasoned Digital Marketer and Public

Guy Powell:

Relations expert with 3 years of experience in solving marketing

Guy Powell:

challenges for a range of clients in a range of

Guy Powell:

industries, including real estate technologies, CIDs

Guy Powell:

professional services. You name it, she's done it. And her

Guy Powell:

company, C21 has many, many accolades. And I'm not going to

Guy Powell:

list them all. But there's a whole paragraph full of those.

Guy Powell:

So really, she's definitely at the top of her game. And that

Guy Powell:

also is not only in business, but in golf. So that's one of

Guy Powell:

her favorite things to do is be out on the golf course or

Guy Powell:

cycling or walking her dogs here in Atlanta. So welcome, Sharon.

Sharon Goldmacher:

Hi, Guy. Thank you for having me on the

Sharon Goldmacher:

show. I'm very excited to be here.

Guy Powell:

You're very welcome. It's so good to have you. So

Guy Powell:

tell us how you got started in marketing. What's your backstory

Guy Powell:

on marketing?

Sharon Goldmacher:

My backstory is, is probably not unlike many,

Sharon Goldmacher:

but I went to college at Tulane University. But I'm a Sophie

Sharon Goldmacher:

Newcomb grad from Tulane University. And I didn't really

Sharon Goldmacher:

know what I wanted to be when I grew up. So I studied

Sharon Goldmacher:

communications and political science, I thought I was going

Sharon Goldmacher:

to be a hotshot attorney. And I decided I didn't want to go to

Sharon Goldmacher:

school anymore. After double majoring, and I almost got a

Sharon Goldmacher:

minor. I was a dancer in college, jazz and modern and

Sharon Goldmacher:

ballet. So I was exhausted. So I had worked for a W DSU, which

Sharon Goldmacher:

was the NBC affiliate in New Orleans. And then I thought I

Sharon Goldmacher:

might be a reporter. But I didn't want to move to some

Sharon Goldmacher:

small town USA to build my reel. And so I ended up moving to

Sharon Goldmacher:

Atlanta, I did some on air pitching work for the PBS

Sharon Goldmacher:

station here. And in doing that, I met someone who said you'd be

Sharon Goldmacher:

great and PR, and I'm like, awesome. What is that. So I had

Sharon Goldmacher:

to do a little informational interviewing and research. And I

Sharon Goldmacher:

met some great people along the way, and ended up getting my

Sharon Goldmacher:

first job, which was really a marketing and public relations

Sharon Goldmacher:

role at a very small agency. And I loved it. So I was hooked at

Sharon Goldmacher:

that point.

Guy Powell:

Interesting. You know, it's funny, because I was

Guy Powell:

engineering. And now I'm in marketing, how we got there from

Guy Powell:

where we started in college. It's pretty amazing. So now

Guy Powell:

you're the founder and president of see 21, which is a marketing

Guy Powell:

and PR agency. Tell us a little bit about that.

Sharon Goldmacher:

Our official name is communications 21. Our

Sharon Goldmacher:

tag is communications for the 21st century, we are actually

Sharon Goldmacher:

celebrating our 30th anniversary this year. So I worked for two

Sharon Goldmacher:

other agencies, I loved what I did. Not great with authority.

Sharon Goldmacher:

So I struck out on my own after about six years. And so when I

Sharon Goldmacher:

was 28, I started communications 21. But that is a mouthful. So

Sharon Goldmacher:

we've essentially we go by C 21. Just because it's easier for

Sharon Goldmacher:

people to say and to find us so. But we started out as a

Sharon Goldmacher:

marketing, PR and design firm. And around 2000 I guess we were

Sharon Goldmacher:

one of the first agencies in Atlanta to launch email

Sharon Goldmacher:

marketing in house. So we've been doing it for 22 years. And

Sharon Goldmacher:

as a result, we just kept adding more digital services because we

Sharon Goldmacher:

saw that that really was going to be the wave of the future.

Sharon Goldmacher:

And now we do video as well. So all the digital, you know,

Sharon Goldmacher:

services, you definitely have more expertise in certain areas

Sharon Goldmacher:

than we do but we provide at least our clients with a

Sharon Goldmacher:

holistic approach to marketing and if they want to do

Sharon Goldmacher:

traditional, we can do it. But we really do push the digital

Sharon Goldmacher:

because that's where everybody lives right now.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, absolutely. And, and there's no question

Guy Powell:

that as the complexity or the the different offerings and the

Guy Powell:

complexity around them in terms of all the different types of

Guy Powell:

digital certainly leads to a lot of challenges for agencies and

Guy Powell:

their clients. So what do you see today is the biggest

Guy Powell:

challenges that agencies and their clients are facing?

Sharon Goldmacher:

Education is always key. So making sure that

Sharon Goldmacher:

we're cutting edge and staying in front of it's always tough to

Sharon Goldmacher:

get a question from a client when you're like, huh, I haven't

Sharon Goldmacher:

heard that. So you want to make sure that you're definitely in

Sharon Goldmacher:

front of what's happening. I think most of our clients

Sharon Goldmacher:

understand the importance of digital marketing, but they

Sharon Goldmacher:

really don't know the wares in house. And they, they kind of

Sharon Goldmacher:

feel like it's all magic behind the curtain...like Wizard of Oz.

Sharon Goldmacher:

So some of it is explaining, but to a point where they can

Sharon Goldmacher:

understand but they don't necessarily really want to

Sharon Goldmacher:

execute or get involved. So we focus on metrics because I

Sharon Goldmacher:

think, being able to measure what we can do, and I, I use

Sharon Goldmacher:

that as a bit of a tagline, like, if we can't measure it, we

Sharon Goldmacher:

probably are not going to recommend it as a tactic.

Sharon Goldmacher:

Because most everything in the digital world is so measurable.

Sharon Goldmacher:

And if you're if you're not measuring, then I then I think

Sharon Goldmacher:

you're doing your client a little bit of a disservice. But

Sharon Goldmacher:

I will say and I think I may have said this to previously

Sharon Goldmacher:

that there's a lot of shiny new toys out there. And the

Sharon Goldmacher:

metaverse is one of them. And I feel like people are jumping on

Sharon Goldmacher:

the bandwagon, and they don't necessarily know what the impact

Sharon Goldmacher:

is or how to make the most of it. And so, again, going back to

Sharon Goldmacher:

education, going back to your basic foundational principles is

Sharon Goldmacher:

if your audience is going to be in the metaverse, then yeah, we

Sharon Goldmacher:

should absolutely consider what that strategy would be to get in

Sharon Goldmacher:

there and to connect, but if your audience is never gonna be

Sharon Goldmacher:

in the metaverse, then it's probably not something that you

Sharon Goldmacher:

need to spend your dollars on.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, and there's been some interesting case

Guy Powell:

studies with the the metaverse and, and I will admit, I'm just

Guy Powell:

learning about it now and also trying to be a little bit more

Guy Powell:

informed than our clients so that at least if they asked me a

Guy Powell:

question, I can say, I know how to spell metaverse. And so

Guy Powell:

there's there's definitely a lot going on. And so any interesting

Guy Powell:

case studies that you've seen, or any interesting examples that

Guy Powell:

really made a lot of sense for marketers.

Sharon Goldmacher:

In terms of just information out there, I

Sharon Goldmacher:

mean, I think, you know, I find it fascinating from because we

Sharon Goldmacher:

do a lot of real estate. And so, in terms of Metaverse, things

Sharon Goldmacher:

that I'm reading about the real estate industry is was one of

Sharon Goldmacher:

the first to really dive in, I would say fashion, you know,

Sharon Goldmacher:

Gucci and Versace and some of the luxury brands who have the

Sharon Goldmacher:

kind of money that can, you know, go all out and just play.

Sharon Goldmacher:

But real estate got in there so they could kind of stake their

Sharon Goldmacher:

claims on space in the metaverse. But I will say I've

Sharon Goldmacher:

read some stories where there's a, I don't know if you've heard

Sharon Goldmacher:

about decentraland. But there is a space that they are

Sharon Goldmacher:

subdividing and selling leases for and plots for. And people

Sharon Goldmacher:

are paying real money. And they said you know that it's a finite

Sharon Goldmacher:

amount of space? And I'm like, it's it's digital, how is it

Sharon Goldmacher:

finite, you can just build more space. That didn't make a ton of

Sharon Goldmacher:

sense to me. But you know, I think as time goes on, we're

Sharon Goldmacher:

gonna see more and more applications and things that may

Sharon Goldmacher:

not make sense right now. A year from now, we'll have better

Sharon Goldmacher:

applications and make a lot more sense. I have similar questions

Sharon Goldmacher:

around NFTs and there seems to be a target market right now for

Sharon Goldmacher:

NFTs and I'm just going to say it but tends to be men who want

Sharon Goldmacher:

to see a replay of a basketball shot over and over and over and

Sharon Goldmacher:

over and over again. And having worked to support the NCAA Men's

Sharon Goldmacher:

final four tournament I understand the passion around

Sharon Goldmacher:

sports and specifically college basketball and college football,

Sharon Goldmacher:

but this is not really how women's brains work. I'm just

Sharon Goldmacher:

gonna sit.

Guy Powell:

Well so we're gonna leave the the gender specific

Guy Powell:

stuff aside here.

Sharon Goldmacher:

I'm a female founder with all female team so

Sharon Goldmacher:

I tend to be a little bit female but just instantly Yeah,

Guy Powell:

Exactly. And I agree with you. I haven't yet figured

Guy Powell:

out how NFT's can make money, but I'm sure that there will be

Guy Powell:

something and all of a sudden, something will take off. You

Guy Powell:

know, and it's interesting, there was a lot of hype about NF

Guy Powell:

T's and then it kind of went away. And then now it might be

Guy Powell:

starting to come back. But it's also kind of how QR codes work

Guy Powell:

there. When QR codes came out, man, there was so much desire

Guy Powell:

for them, and then it didn't never really got anywhere. And

Guy Powell:

then all of a sudden, I think it was really apple. And I guess

Guy Powell:

Google did it too, as they combined and integrated the QR

Guy Powell:

code reader right into the camera, right? All of a sudden,

Guy Powell:

and then with COVID, all of a sudden, QR codes are back. And

Guy Powell:

so maybe something like that has to happen with NF T's and then

Guy Powell:

the metaverse.

Sharon Goldmacher:

Right. So that was a huge impact on on QR

Sharon Goldmacher:

codes and contactless payments and, and all that. So I agree.

Sharon Goldmacher:

Sometimes it's environment driven.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, yeah. So help educate us. What would you call

Guy Powell:

the difference between the term Metaverse augmented reality and

Guy Powell:

virtual reality? And then, you know, how you see that being

Guy Powell:

possibly applied by different by different industries? And what

Guy Powell:

have you?

Sharon Goldmacher:

Yeah, I, again, I'm not an expert. And

Sharon Goldmacher:

this is not something we do every day. But we have through a

Sharon Goldmacher:

group, I know a gentleman who's building virtual reality

Sharon Goldmacher:

experience boxes. So you walk in with your headset, and you can

Sharon Goldmacher:

have any kind of experience, it could be going on safari, it

Sharon Goldmacher:

could be being on the moon, it could be something medical that

Sharon Goldmacher:

you're learning about. And so you get education, you can

Sharon Goldmacher:

virtually touch and feel something and interact with it

Sharon Goldmacher:

as if it's real. And that's virtual reality. Augmented

Sharon Goldmacher:

reality may be, we had, for example, used a kind of a pop up

Sharon Goldmacher:

video service, I guess, is the best way to describe it, that

Sharon Goldmacher:

you would scan any kind of flat graphic that was programmed in

Sharon Goldmacher:

the back end, and you would have a video pop up right over that

Sharon Goldmacher:

flat graphic. So if I had a brochure and I just took my

Sharon Goldmacher:

phone and scanned it, all of a sudden, there'd be a video right

Sharon Goldmacher:

on my phone, and you'd still see kind of behind the video the the

Sharon Goldmacher:

graphic or brochure. And that was just augmenting what you

Sharon Goldmacher:

would already see. So that's augmented reality. The Metaverse

Sharon Goldmacher:

to me is just a whole world where you interact virtually,

Sharon Goldmacher:

and you are going into rooms or games, or you're at a concert

Sharon Goldmacher:

with somebody across the world. And you just text your friend

Sharon Goldmacher:

and say, Hey, I'm in this room, come watch Earth, Wind and Fire

Sharon Goldmacher:

with me, obviously, showing my age, super old. But my favorite

Sharon Goldmacher:

band, and you know, that kind of virtual living. I can see, I can

Sharon Goldmacher:

understand, like, I have friends all over, I would love to see

Sharon Goldmacher:

them more often. And that kind of I could see could be cool.

Sharon Goldmacher:

But I like human interaction. I like you know, this zoom stuff

Sharon Goldmacher:

is fine. But I like in person. So

Guy Powell:

yeah, yeah. And I think that's a good

Guy Powell:

differentiation. One of our clients is Museum of the Bible,

Guy Powell:

and they had an exhibit where they had a projector over a

Guy Powell:

book. And then as you turn the pages in the book, the projector

Guy Powell:

would then change and recognize what page you are on. And then

Guy Powell:

it would present a like a video and then you know, other stuff

Guy Powell:

with it. And, and it was pretty fascinating. And it was an

Guy Powell:

interesting case as to how you could maybe use that. I don't

Guy Powell:

know if that would be augmented reality or virtual reality. I

Guy Powell:

guess it's probably more augmented. But, uh, cases like

Guy Powell:

that, I think are definitely coming up. And and you mentioned

Guy Powell:

education as well. I think education, there's no question

Guy Powell:

that when you can kind of almost feel like you're in there that

Guy Powell:

in that environment, that you can really learn and see

Guy Powell:

different things that you otherwise wouldn't see, just by

Guy Powell:

reading a book.

Sharon Goldmacher:

There was actually a new story this I

Sharon Goldmacher:

think it was this past weekend or or week. It might have been

Sharon Goldmacher:

just this a couple of days ago, but it was talking about the

Sharon Goldmacher:

progression of virtual reality and that medical students, even

Sharon Goldmacher:

high schoolers who have a kind of STEM track are seeing a

Sharon Goldmacher:

virtual A skeleton that they can with headsets can see where the

Sharon Goldmacher:

liver is, or see how things function and the compression of

Sharon Goldmacher:

time that may happen in terms of, you know, someone going

Sharon Goldmacher:

through school and their residency and all this because

Sharon Goldmacher:

they get to do things virtually, and not wait for a patient or

Sharon Goldmacher:

cadaver will, will turn out, you know, more medical professionals

Sharon Goldmacher:

in a faster amount of time, which I think is incredibly

Sharon Goldmacher:

beneficial. However, I do still think the human connection and

Sharon Goldmacher:

bedside manner and those are things you can't necessarily get

Sharon Goldmacher:

virtually. So there has to be some combination, I think for

Sharon Goldmacher:

for true success.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, interesting. And I like your example of

Guy Powell:

medical for the metaverse to be able to actually see and feel

Guy Powell:

and touch and, and I think you're right, you wouldn't learn

Guy Powell:

the details of that. And I would imagine, too, if you're going to

Guy Powell:

be a specialist, and you're going to be you know, an ear,

Guy Powell:

nose and throat or whatever, that you could then learn the

Guy Powell:

details of that a whole lot faster than if then otherwise.

Guy Powell:

And so that might actually compress areas where there are

Guy Powell:

shortages of doctors, and certainly, you know, in the

Guy Powell:

third world that might be you know, an interesting way for

Guy Powell:

them to increase the number of available doctors very quickly.

Sharon Goldmacher:

Yeah, this reporter actually was working on

Sharon Goldmacher:

it, they were including tactile, so not just seeing but being

Sharon Goldmacher:

able to feel, and he wasn't wearing a glove or anything

Sharon Goldmacher:

special, but the way that they've designed the virtual

Sharon Goldmacher:

reality, he was like, I'm having trouble explaining it, but I can

Sharon Goldmacher:

feel, you know, a hard surface or stone or whatever. And that's

Sharon Goldmacher:

the crazy thing about how your brain works, I guess. So it can

Sharon Goldmacher:

Yeah, you can really interpret things differently. So, yeah,

Sharon Goldmacher:

well, I

Guy Powell:

will admit, you know, when the Apple phone, and

Guy Powell:

I don't remember which version of it came out with the haptic

Guy Powell:

you know, where you you hit something, and you actually feel

Guy Powell:

it vibrate. You know, I thought that was a really good way to

Guy Powell:

enhance the product. And, and now, you know, for as a

Guy Powell:

marketer, of course, is, you know, how do we turn that into

Guy Powell:

something that can either grow the brand or improve the

Guy Powell:

experience you have with the brand and, and I think there's

Guy Powell:

going to be a ton of different opportunities for marketers to

Guy Powell:

take advantage of.

Sharon Goldmacher:

Yeah, and I think it'll be interesting to

Sharon Goldmacher:

for experiential marketers, for people who do large scale

Sharon Goldmacher:

events, or, you know, testing of products for brands and, and

Sharon Goldmacher:

will it change it and enhance it, because I'm sure they're all

Sharon Goldmacher:

moving towards having some kind of virtual reality experience as

Sharon Goldmacher:

part of the in person experience. So no longer just

Sharon Goldmacher:

cornhole. It might be a cornhole on the moon. So it'll, it'll be

Sharon Goldmacher:

interesting to see the impact. And then, you know, quite

Sharon Goldmacher:

frankly, the cost, I mean, as as a business owner, yourself,

Sharon Goldmacher:

finding the right partners, but then being able to price

Sharon Goldmacher:

something that a client doesn't go, Oh, what, it's gonna cost me

Sharon Goldmacher:

how much so,

Guy Powell:

yeah, yeah,

Sharon Goldmacher:

it'll be interesting to see how things

Sharon Goldmacher:

change. But,

Guy Powell:

well, one thing too. We were just at a family reunion

Guy Powell:

and looking at younger kids and the level of technology and the

Guy Powell:

time they spend with technology and being in Minecraft or Roblox

Guy Powell:

which, as I understand it, are going to kind of be the

Guy Powell:

foundation for the metaverse. They, they are going to be so

Guy Powell:

far ahead of us. It's going to be like, you know, my parents in

Guy Powell:

the internet. My mom would never use the internet and it took me

Guy Powell:

forever to get her to even try it. I was unsuccessful. And I

Guy Powell:

hate to say it, I fear I might be the same way when it comes to

Guy Powell:

the metaverse.

Sharon Goldmacher:

I have a I'm proud to say that. So I grew up

Sharon Goldmacher:

kind of all over the country. I was I'm a Californian, but moved

Sharon Goldmacher:

up and down the east coast as a kid growing up. And I spent

Sharon Goldmacher:

about eight years just outside of Boston, and some of my best

Sharon Goldmacher:

friends still live up there. Most of them live up there. And

Sharon Goldmacher:

when COVID hit, we would typically get together once a

Sharon Goldmacher:

year, you know, maybe twice a year. And we started having a

Sharon Goldmacher:

weekly zoom call pretty much March of 20. And we have every

Sharon Goldmacher:

Tuesday night we have a call. And one of the women on the

Sharon Goldmacher:

call, who's very she's an entrepreneur, very progressive.

Sharon Goldmacher:

She's like why can't we just have flip phones? v if she could

Sharon Goldmacher:

not touch technology, she would be so happy. So, you know, I

Sharon Goldmacher:

bring up things like the metaverse to her and she's just

Sharon Goldmacher:

No, not gonna have it not. So yes, I agree that we may also,

Sharon Goldmacher:

because I kind of feel like we are different than our parents.

Sharon Goldmacher:

My dad actually was an engineer and very adaptable to

Sharon Goldmacher:

technology. And my mom's pretty good, too. So I'm lucky there.

Sharon Goldmacher:

But I do feel like, you know, I felt a little bit like there

Sharon Goldmacher:

won't be that big of a gap, like, how much more can they do?

Sharon Goldmacher:

And now they can do a lot. So I'm not a gamer. So I have team

Sharon Goldmacher:

members who are gamers, gamers, and I am jealous, because

Sharon Goldmacher:

they're going to, you know, they're going to be like, Yeah,

Sharon Goldmacher:

this is this and this and this. And I'm like, oh, what? Oh,

Sharon Goldmacher:

yeah. Remember Pong?

Guy Powell:

I know. And asteroids, those are my games.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, we're definitely going to be behind the curve on that. And

Guy Powell:

actually, that's an interesting challenge, I think for marketers

Guy Powell:

is how do you get if you have a product or a service that's

Guy Powell:

ideal for, you know, the older generations? You know, for the

Guy Powell:

maybe not necessarily the boomers, but maybe even

Guy Powell:

millennials, as opposed to the Gen Z's and the Gen Y's, you

Guy Powell:

know, how do you, you have to wait for the uptake of the new

Guy Powell:

technology before you're going to be successful with, you know,

Guy Powell:

getting that getting that meta versal kind of service

Guy Powell:

implemented and really taken up by that by that segment.

Sharon Goldmacher:

I agree. And I also wonder, the impact for PR

Sharon Goldmacher:

from a publicity and media relations perspective. So as

Sharon Goldmacher:

reporters get younger, will the interaction be virtual like

Sharon Goldmacher:

that? So gone are the days where you would meet someone for

Sharon Goldmacher:

lunch? Obviously, most of its digital, they're inundated with

Sharon Goldmacher:

1000s of pitches and calls. And so how will that change? How

Sharon Goldmacher:

will they get information from, you know, just like you're

Sharon Goldmacher:

pitching a product, you do similar things in PR. And so

Sharon Goldmacher:

kind of what will change? And it'll be interesting to see, I

Sharon Goldmacher:

don't know if I'm going to be around that long. But you know,

Sharon Goldmacher:

things continue to adapt, and, and it's adapt or die, I guess,

Sharon Goldmacher:

in terms of being?

Guy Powell:

Yeah, well, and I think too, and I've seen it as

Guy Powell:

well, even with my book is you don't even write a press release

Guy Powell:

anymore. 10 years ago, and I don't know, maybe that's too far

Guy Powell:

back, I don't know. But you'd write a press release, and you'd

Guy Powell:

put it up on PR web or whatever it was. And that would then get

Guy Powell:

distributed, that you don't even need to do that really anymore.

Guy Powell:

It's totally different. And I can see that changing here over

Guy Powell:

the next couple of years as, as the younger generation gets into

Guy Powell:

being on the reporter side and the editor side, and they just

Guy Powell:

want to be communicated with differently. Agreed. So you

Guy Powell:

mentioned metrics early on. And of course metrics and analytics

Guy Powell:

are where I where I kind of, you know, my interest gets piqued.

Guy Powell:

So tell us some of the metrics and analytics that you've found

Guy Powell:

to be the most successful or the most beneficial to really help

Guy Powell:

your clients to get that edge that they really needed?

Sharon Goldmacher:

Well, they never look at anything. So it's

Sharon Goldmacher:

just providing them just providing them with analytics.

Sharon Goldmacher:

They're like, wow, really. That is, um, you know, I'll say, real

Sharon Goldmacher:

estate folks, lawyers, professional service people,

Sharon Goldmacher:

even architects. They, they do not look at measurable results.

Sharon Goldmacher:

It's just not in their language. So for someone to provide that

Sharon Goldmacher:

it's like, I've invented sliced bread. It's crazy. We, again,

Sharon Goldmacher:

because we try to take as much of a holistic approach as we can

Sharon Goldmacher:

to our clients. We will typically even if we're not

Sharon Goldmacher:

managing websites, which for most of our clients, we do but

Sharon Goldmacher:

in the cases where we don't we gain access to analytics, we

Sharon Goldmacher:

make sure they have analytics on their site. Now with you know,

Sharon Goldmacher:

for Dotto, things will change in terms of how things are being

Sharon Goldmacher:

looked at but, you know, site traffic is still important tying

Sharon Goldmacher:

it to if we're doing an SEO program or some kind of online

Sharon Goldmacher:

advertising or social ad program, tying Certain clicks or

Sharon Goldmacher:

certain web form, you know, finishing an email marketing is

Sharon Goldmacher:

still really number one in terms of driving site traffic. So

Sharon Goldmacher:

trying to stitch the threads together, so we'll tend to look

Sharon Goldmacher:

at our efforts or discrete efforts that happen, and then

Sharon Goldmacher:

what the results are. So is it driving traffic was there a peak

Sharon Goldmacher:

day was there, you know, and ideally, are their sales tied to

Sharon Goldmacher:

it, so not only we drive traffic, but did people fill out

Sharon Goldmacher:

their request a quote, form or, you know, complete a sale and,

Sharon Goldmacher:

and, you know, really with, with online ads, you really can see a

Sharon Goldmacher:

massive difference. So if you're spending a little bit more

Sharon Goldmacher:

money, or you're spending a lot of money, there is a limit to

Sharon Goldmacher:

attraction. But if you're spending nothing, your your

Sharon Goldmacher:

results tend to flatline a little bit, unless you have some

Sharon Goldmacher:

really big news, or you have, you know, a great video or

Sharon Goldmacher:

something goes viral. But you know, incrementally spending

Sharon Goldmacher:

smartly, to drive traffic. We think that that's important. We

Sharon Goldmacher:

give them the whole picture on website, on social email, and

Sharon Goldmacher:

then anything else that may have occurred. And then the end of

Sharon Goldmacher:

our analytics is always a, this is where we fared well, this is

Sharon Goldmacher:

where we're going to continue to work. This is what we think we

Sharon Goldmacher:

should pause. So I think that clients are always happy to get

Sharon Goldmacher:

just a quick synopsis, and a chart of growth, like are you

Sharon Goldmacher:

growing? Or are you not growing? And if they only looked at two

Sharon Goldmacher:

slides, without all this stuff in the middle, I think they

Sharon Goldmacher:

would be at least have an idea of what's working and what's not

Sharon Goldmacher:

working. And I think every client wants to know, you know,

Sharon Goldmacher:

from a KPI perspective, and an ROI, I guess, perspective how

Sharon Goldmacher:

their return on investment is, if they're getting one, and

Sharon Goldmacher:

hopefully, the smart marketing people will say you should stop

Sharon Goldmacher:

spending your money here, because you're getting nowhere.

Sharon Goldmacher:

But we think you should still, like funnel that money

Sharon Goldmacher:

elsewhere, because you are getting results here. So

Guy Powell:

yeah, yeah, absolutely. One of the one of

Guy Powell:

the challenges that we've run into is, you know, for for

Guy Powell:

larger businesses, they have the money to invest in metrics. And

Guy Powell:

so they can either buy data or get survey data or by third

Guy Powell:

party data. And then of course, their own internal systems, give

Guy Powell:

them you know, the sales and other other things. The

Guy Powell:

challenges, though, for smaller businesses, and one of the

Guy Powell:

things and I kind of heard that as well as, you just have to

Guy Powell:

start measuring something and measuring it regularly. And

Guy Powell:

you'll start to see some things that that take place, you might

Guy Powell:

see a peak in web visits, or a web engagement or form fills or

Guy Powell:

something like that. And then once you start to see that, then

Guy Powell:

you can say, well, that's when we ran this little campaign, or

Guy Powell:

that's when we went to the trade show, or that's when we did

Guy Powell:

something and start to tie those things to real value. So I you

Guy Powell:

know, I think what you're doing makes total sense. And, and I

Guy Powell:

think the the biggest thing is to just start and I try and get

Guy Powell:

that message across in my book is just start measuring,

Guy Powell:

measuring something and then, you know, see what you get, and

Guy Powell:

then refine it and refine it, but you have to start and be

Guy Powell:

diligent about it.

Sharon Goldmacher:

Right? It's just like, when people used to

Sharon Goldmacher:

come to us back in the day for printed newsletters. I'm like,

Sharon Goldmacher:

you can't do two, you have to do them every month. Because you're

Sharon Goldmacher:

just I mean, it's with anything really in marketing, right? It's

Sharon Goldmacher:

frequency. And so analytics are the same. And it's really

Sharon Goldmacher:

interesting. I think over 30 years. We'll get clients who

Sharon Goldmacher:

were like, you know, yeah, yeah, analytics analytics by month

Sharon Goldmacher:

three, they're like, ah, are we getting our analytics report?

Sharon Goldmacher:

And like, Yep, we're working on it. Yeah, they really do start

Sharon Goldmacher:

to pay attention. The smart ones I would say that really have the

Sharon Goldmacher:

time, maybe are a little more sales focused. You know, they're

Sharon Goldmacher:

making an investment. And so like anything, they want to see

Sharon Goldmacher:

what that return is, and yeah, they really will start to pay

Sharon Goldmacher:

attention. And they're kind of amazed, like I said, And to your

Sharon Goldmacher:

point. If they haven't started just starting it. They're kind

Sharon Goldmacher:

of like, wow, you can see that. You can drill down and see that

Sharon Goldmacher:

and I'm like, oh, there's so much more we're not showing

Sharon Goldmacher:

because we don't think you're gonna look at it. But if you

Sharon Goldmacher:

want to see it, we'll we'll pull it for you.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And just get

Guy Powell:

started. That is such a for metrics that is just just so

Guy Powell:

important. So changing the subject a little bit. So what do

Guy Powell:

you see as otherwise big trends in PR, and in marketing. We

Guy Powell:

talked a little bit about the metaverse, and whatever, but any

Guy Powell:

other big trends that you're seeing.

Sharon Goldmacher:

You know, we're doing a couple of projects

Sharon Goldmacher:

right now that require community engagement. And at least in

Sharon Goldmacher:

Georgia, for projects that we have here, and really

Sharon Goldmacher:

everywhere, the diversity of the population is really driving

Sharon Goldmacher:

some different initiatives. We are working, for example, on a

Sharon Goldmacher:

video. And if you've taken a Delta flight recently, and

Sharon Goldmacher:

you've seen their promotion, you know, they're in flight video

Sharon Goldmacher:

before you can take off. There's English and Spanish subtitles.

Sharon Goldmacher:

And I think as the population continues to be more diverse,

Sharon Goldmacher:

and languages will become more important. That will have an

Sharon Goldmacher:

impact on on how websites are developed on materials that are

Sharon Goldmacher:

provided on outreach that happens. And honestly, I think

Sharon Goldmacher:

I'm hopeful that as kids come up in school, that there is more of

Sharon Goldmacher:

an emphasis on learning more than English as a language. I

Sharon Goldmacher:

mean, you look across the world, and Italians probably know, on

Sharon Goldmacher:

average three to five languages, or, you know, people in Spain,

Sharon Goldmacher:

and so the world is getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

Sharon Goldmacher:

And I think trends that will continue to occur is people have

Sharon Goldmacher:

to be thinking about diversity, equity and inclusion all the

Sharon Goldmacher:

time. Now, it's not, you know, people don't look like us

Sharon Goldmacher:

anymore. It's important to to be diverse and get outside of your

Sharon Goldmacher:

own bubble. Some of these projects are heavily community

Sharon Goldmacher:

engagement focused. And so there has to be someone who might be

Sharon Goldmacher:

able to interpret into Korean, Vietnamese, Spanish or other

Sharon Goldmacher:

languages on site. So that, that the community can really engage.

Sharon Goldmacher:

So for one of our clients that, you know, when we started, you

Sharon Goldmacher:

were talking about CIDs. And people may not know what that

Sharon Goldmacher:

is. They are community improvement districts, they are

Sharon Goldmacher:

designated areas where property owners pay additional tax. And

Sharon Goldmacher:

that tax goes into a bucket that's used for infrastructure

Sharon Goldmacher:

updates, security, landscaping, beautification cleanup, and it's

Sharon Goldmacher:

meant to it's a little bit of the broken windows theory, that

Sharon Goldmacher:

if things look great, you're going to attract more

Sharon Goldmacher:

investment, more businesses, more residents, etc. And all

Sharon Goldmacher:

that means is more taxes come into that county. And so it's

Sharon Goldmacher:

it's win win. But the diversity of the C IDs is vastly changing.

Sharon Goldmacher:

And so one of the ones that we work with is probably one of the

Sharon Goldmacher:

most diverse districts where I think Hispanic and African

Sharon Goldmacher:

American are by far the, you know, majority of the

Sharon Goldmacher:

population. And so making sure that we are communicating in a,

Sharon Goldmacher:

in a way that they can understand without being forced

Sharon Goldmacher:

to read English and understand what could be, you know, complex

Sharon Goldmacher:

is, is key, and I think that will continue to be a trend that

Sharon Goldmacher:

we see going forward. So, you know, making sure that

Sharon Goldmacher:

that people are keeping that in mind, from a marketing

Sharon Goldmacher:

perspective, I think will be really important.

Guy Powell:

Yeah, I agree with you, the I'm on the board of the

Guy Powell:

AMA, the American Marketing Association here in Atlanta, and

Guy Powell:

I'm a former president and you are a former president. Exactly.

Guy Powell:

So, over the, over the last two years, we have set it really as

Guy Powell:

an objective to make sure that we are as diverse and inclusive

Guy Powell:

and inclusionary as as we can be, because it is so important

Guy Powell:

and to your use, use the words you know, they don't necessarily

Guy Powell:

look like us. And, or look like me, and and that every piece of

Guy Powell:

research that I've seen is so true. And you know, so being

Guy Powell:

able to make that inclusion in all of our events is is you

Guy Powell:

know, long term even in the short term is going to help the

Guy Powell:

organization out and I think help out marketers that follow

Guy Powell:

that and companies that follow that. So yeah, I'm really glad

Guy Powell:

that you brought that up. Yeah, I

Sharon Goldmacher:

mean, just hearing someone else's opinion

Sharon Goldmacher:

that, again, may not look like us is, is really, really

Sharon Goldmacher:

important. I'm going through a leadership program right now

Sharon Goldmacher:

through crew, which is commercial real estate for

Sharon Goldmacher:

women. And it is a very diverse mix of women in the in the

Sharon Goldmacher:

class. And so there was the topic, we had a topic about DNI

Sharon Goldmacher:

essentially. And there were a lot of some prep trepidations, I

Sharon Goldmacher:

would say, from other members of the class saying, you know, I

Sharon Goldmacher:

don't know what I can ask what I can't ask, you know, I don't

Sharon Goldmacher:

want to mess up. And, you know, I think, and I'm Jewish, and so

Sharon Goldmacher:

I get asked questions like that, you know, like, really? Yes. You

Sharon Goldmacher:

know, the goal is to be a friend first, like, get to know the

Sharon Goldmacher:

person and not treat them as if they're on display. You know, if

Sharon Goldmacher:

that makes sense, like, Ooh, you're the, you're my first

Sharon Goldmacher:

black friend. So I'm going to ask all my questions. That's not

Sharon Goldmacher:

how it works, not how it works. So making sure that you are

Sharon Goldmacher:

diverse is great, but at the same time, it's the equity and

Sharon Goldmacher:

the inclusion part that I think are important as well, so that

Sharon Goldmacher:

people are on a level playing field, and they are given the

Sharon Goldmacher:

same opportunities, and that those inclusionary conversations

Sharon Goldmacher:

are happening, and not necessarily. You're the token.

Sharon Goldmacher:

So I'm going to ask you, because you're clearly representative of

Sharon Goldmacher:

your entire population. Yeah. Yeah. Not a good thing.

Guy Powell:

That that is not a good thing. I like your point,

Guy Powell:

though. The the friend and the relationship is you have to

Guy Powell:

establish first and and that has to be kind of at the top of the

Guy Powell:

list. And, and that then will lead to the other. You know, the

Guy Powell:

other the other bullets that that need to be followed on

Guy Powell:

that. Yeah, good point. Any other big trends that you see?

Sharon Goldmacher:

Oh, gosh, um, well, what are you seeing? I'm

Sharon Goldmacher:

gonna turn it around you. Way more people on these podcasts?

Sharon Goldmacher:

What are you seeing?

Guy Powell:

Yeah, well, definitely. You know, it's good

Guy Powell:

that we talked about the metaverse, because that's

Guy Powell:

certainly it. And definitely the EI. So that was good. What I've

Guy Powell:

found, which is, I think surprises everybody is that

Guy Powell:

there has been a huge shift over to digital and online. So

Guy Powell:

whatever that is, whether it's, you know, paid digital paid

Guy Powell:

social paid search, or online video, that trend has definitely

Guy Powell:

moved and as being very successful there. And money is

Guy Powell:

being taken out of traditional media. And what's happened now

Guy Powell:

with a lot of our clients is that the traditional media has

Guy Powell:

now become very effective. Because the prices have come

Guy Powell:

down, the targeting is better, or maybe not better, but the

Guy Powell:

targeting is there. And the reach is there. And so we

Guy Powell:

actually see that there's almost like a rebalancing going on

Guy Powell:

where everything was kind of moving over to online, and now

Guy Powell:

there's a little piece that's moving back again. And so that's

Guy Powell:

definitely one of the trends that that that we've seen.

Sharon Goldmacher:

Yeah, that's, it's really interesting. We,

Sharon Goldmacher:

video, video video. It is. It is really, you know, the no one

Sharon Goldmacher:

reads anymore. It's really sad. I mean, especially because I'm a

Sharon Goldmacher:

storyteller, and a writer, and no one reads and it's really

Sharon Goldmacher:

kind of crazy. The statistics that you see on how much video

Sharon Goldmacher:

is consumed, versus, you know, someone reading a book or even a

Sharon Goldmacher:

blog post. It's important to have obviously, from a technical

Sharon Goldmacher:

perspective, having the your keywords searchable, very

Sharon Goldmacher:

important, but I think video will continue to change the

Sharon Goldmacher:

game, both on the internet, social media, tick tock has had

Sharon Goldmacher:

a massive impact. And so what is consumable? I think, to your

Sharon Goldmacher:

point earlier about different age ranges, you know, people can

Sharon Goldmacher:

spend three to six hours on Tik Tok just scrolling through

Sharon Goldmacher:

videos, and but the retention level is what I don't know. So

Sharon Goldmacher:

are they are they retaining? are they actually going through and

Sharon Goldmacher:

shopping and spending money and you know, doing those things,

Sharon Goldmacher:

but video is no longer something you can avoid. You have to have

Sharon Goldmacher:

it as part certainly as part of your social media. Just because

Sharon Goldmacher:

algorithmically, it's rewarded. So you're kind of left in the

Sharon Goldmacher:

dust. I was just on a call about a nonprofit. They're focused on

Sharon Goldmacher:

raising funds for Ukraine for sending medical supplies,

Sharon Goldmacher:

incubators, you know, kind of large, expensive items. And

Sharon Goldmacher:

someone said, you know, I have some audio PSAs can you use

Sharon Goldmacher:

those on social? And I said, No. I can't. I need the video. So no

Sharon Goldmacher:

one's gonna sit and listen to a post. It's just no, that's not

Sharon Goldmacher:

gonna happen. So I'm not NPR, you know, I, and it's not a

Sharon Goldmacher:

podcast, she was like, it's a 32nd. PSA. I know, I made the

Sharon Goldmacher:

video. So which we'll get, which is good. But yeah, it's just a

Sharon Goldmacher:

it's definitely here to stay. And I was that digital Summit.

Sharon Goldmacher:

Were you at the Digital summit a couple of weeks ago?

Guy Powell:

No, no, yes, I was, I was, yes, there was,

Sharon Goldmacher:

there was a woman on there talking about,

Sharon Goldmacher:

you know, making videos that are engaging and driving physics,

Sharon Goldmacher:

and she made some really great points, but she also, like, I

Sharon Goldmacher:

kind of grew up liking my privacy. And I'm not the type of

Sharon Goldmacher:

person that films myself putting my makeup on before I give a

Sharon Goldmacher:

speech, you know, and, and people like that, like, people

Sharon Goldmacher:

like to watch that. And a little bit worse thing, but that's me.

Sharon Goldmacher:

So you know, there for the people that can embrace that

Sharon Goldmacher:

kind of thing, and are comfortable with that kind of

Sharon Goldmacher:

thing. They're, they're doing really well, but I, you know,

Sharon Goldmacher:

there's certain things that personally, I might recommend it

Sharon Goldmacher:

for a client, but personally, I would have problems with

Guy Powell:

so yeah, yeah. Well, you are so right about video.

Guy Powell:

And, and these short snippets, and I can't believe how how well

Guy Powell:

Tiktok does. A friend of mine, he's does leadership videos on

Guy Powell:

Tiktok. So they're about anywhere from, you know, 5060

Guy Powell:

seconds up to maybe, you know, minute and a half. And, you

Guy Powell:

know, most of his are in the 1000 views range. And then,

Guy Powell:

about two weeks ago, we had one that shot up to 500,000

Sharon Goldmacher:

Oh my god.

Guy Powell:

It absolutely amazing. And so now, you know,

Guy Powell:

because of that, you get spin off on all the other ones. And

Guy Powell:

then it's kind of this virtuous cycle. And, but to your point,

Guy Powell:

though, you have to almost, and I call it surround sound

Guy Powell:

marketing, you have to be almost everywhere. Unfortunately, you

Guy Powell:

do have to have audios, because people do listen to audios and

Guy Powell:

things like that, when they're driving or whatever. And then

Guy Powell:

obviously, the videos and even these podcasts are a big

Guy Powell:

opportunity. And then the tech talks. And and then, you know,

Guy Powell:

you talked about search as well, I made a mistake. With my

Guy Powell:

podcasts i i started on YouTube. And then I don't know why we we

Guy Powell:

felt was going to be better over in Vimeo. And then all of a

Guy Powell:

sudden you realize, wait a minute, we're not getting the

Guy Powell:

search. And the search engine on YouTube is so important that we

Guy Powell:

are now moving everything back over to YouTube because you get

Guy Powell:

all that value of of the of the search.

Sharon Goldmacher:

You could be on both. Yeah, yeah. There's no

Sharon Goldmacher:

harm in being on both. So yeah, but the search volume on YouTube

Sharon Goldmacher:

is set only second to Google. Yeah. Yeah. It's really kind of

Sharon Goldmacher:

amazing. And crazy. So yeah, yeah.

Guy Powell:

Yeah. So before we close anything else you want to

Guy Powell:

bring up or anything we haven't spoken about that you'd like to

Guy Powell:

talk about?

Sharon Goldmacher:

Well, I just I don't think I so do things I

Sharon Goldmacher:

think I would change in terms of me and my, you know, success

Sharon Goldmacher:

over 30 years is I'm not a morning person. And I truly

Sharon Goldmacher:

believe that the early bird catches the worm. Like if only I

Sharon Goldmacher:

was a morning person, a billionaire. But I also am a

Sharon Goldmacher:

very I'm a detail person and less of a visionary. But I will

Sharon Goldmacher:

say I'm kind of the Slow and steady wins the race type

Sharon Goldmacher:

entrepreneur. I'm a risk averse entrepreneur. And I when people

Sharon Goldmacher:

say two things to me, I always kind of cringe like where do you

Sharon Goldmacher:

see yourself in five years? I'm like, Oh my God. I have no idea.

Guy Powell:

Well, absolutely, yeah.

Sharon Goldmacher:

Clients who have asked or five year plans,

Sharon Goldmacher:

I'm like, why bother? It's, it's gonna be different six months

Sharon Goldmacher:

from now, you know. So I feel a little vindicated that we live

Sharon Goldmacher:

in a time that things changed so much that I can say, we're not

Sharon Goldmacher:

doing a five year plan. But um, so I wish I had been a little

Sharon Goldmacher:

bit more of a visionary I guess. But I'm, I am proud to say that

Sharon Goldmacher:

I've been around for 30 years. So that's ever forecast. Like,

Sharon Goldmacher:

I'll do this for a few years, see all goes. It goes by fast

Sharon Goldmacher:

like I get I don't have children I have for babies, but they grow

Sharon Goldmacher:

up fast. And I have loved but some days are really slow. But

Sharon Goldmacher:

for the most part, the 30 years have

Guy Powell:

gone like that. So yeah, it is amazing. It is

Guy Powell:

absolutely amazing. I've been doing this for 17. And it's

Guy Powell:

easy. I know, I know. I'm just I'm just a youngster in this.

Guy Powell:

Well, thank you so much, Sharon, really appreciate it. And thank

Guy Powell:

you so much for the time and very interesting discussion.

Guy Powell:

Where would you like people to go for them to reach you or your

Guy Powell:

company and maybe give you a website

Sharon Goldmacher:

can go right to our website, which is C 21. P

Sharon Goldmacher:

r.com. And you can find me on LinkedIn, Sharon gold mocker

Sharon Goldmacher:

easy to find, and you can can connect with us on social on all

Sharon Goldmacher:

the socials. And yeah, we have some videos on our website as

Sharon Goldmacher:

well. You can see some of our video work. And that would be

Sharon Goldmacher:

great. I would love to connect with your audience. It would be

Sharon Goldmacher:

awesome.

Guy Powell:

Fantastic. So C 21 p r.com. And then of course,

Guy Powell:

Sharon gold mocker on LinkedIn. So with that again, thank you so

Guy Powell:

much, Sharon. And then for the audience. Please stay tuned for

Guy Powell:

other videos in this series of the backstory on marketing,

Guy Powell:

please visit marketing machine dot pro relevant.com. And you

Guy Powell:

can download any of these videos and also podcasts. And don't

Guy Powell:

forget to sign up for more of these. And then if you get a

Guy Powell:

chance, please rate them with five stars. Thank you so much.

Guy Powell:

And thank you, Sharon.

Sharon Goldmacher:

Thank you guy. Have a good afternoon.