You want to know what admissions is actually thinking. So I asked one.

Mary Ann Stahovich is the Director of PA Admissions and didactic coordinator at California Baptist University, and she's been a PA for over 25 years. She reads these applications. She sits in these interviews.

The thing she wants you to get right: know the difference between healthcare experience and patient care experience, and log them correctly on CASPA. People blur these constantly, and it makes an application look careless before anyone reads a word you wrote.

Her other point that stuck with me is about geography. If you're only willing to go to school within an hour of your house, you've cut your odds dramatically. Being flexible about where you live for two years is one of the easiest ways to improve your chances.

She also talks about what makes students succeed once they're in - and it's not the highest GPA in the class. It's the ones who notice their study method isn't working and change it.

What we cover:

• Healthcare experience versus patient care experience, defined
• What admissions actually looks at first
• Why geographic flexibility changes your odds
• Traits that separate students who thrive from students who struggle
• Getting involved with specialty organizations early
• How the PA profession and its career paths have changed in 25 years

Resources:

Free PA School Application Timeline: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/free-application-timeline

Free Resume Download: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/free-resume-download

PA Program Map: https://www.thepaplatform.com/pa-platform-map

Pre-PA Counseling: https://www.thepaplatform.com/services/pre-pa-counseling

Mentioned in this episode:

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If you've ever wanted to ask a director of PA admissions your questions and get their insights on what it takes to be a pa, this is the episode for you.

Welcome to the Pre PA Club Podcast.

If you want to learn how to become a physician assistant, you're in the right place.

I'm your host, Savannah Perry.

Let's get to it.

I am honored to introduce you to this week's podcast guest.

We have Marianne Stahovich from the California Baptist University.

She's the director of PA Admissions and the didactic coordinator.

So she's a professor there and has tons of great experience that she shares with us in today's session episode.

After being a PA for over 25 years, working in multiple states, moving around different specialties, you know, she really is a testament to that lateral mobility that.

We talk about a lot.

And I think you will learn so much from this episode as she tells us, you know, things to consider if you are applying to PA school, things that PA schools are looking for, and gives you that insight that we're all looking for.

So we'll jump into that in just a second.

And again, I'm so grateful for her taking the time out of her busy schedule, especially during application season, to come on and share with us.

So I'm excited for that to be one of our first interviews back on the podcast.

Other stuff going on that you may want to know about this weekend.

If you're listening live on May 7th, we're doing a webinar on supplementals and expensive experience details.

Applications are open.

Hopefully you've been working on your personal statement and have been able to move on to working on maybe some supplementals and some experience details.

So we're going to do some live editing of that, some talking through that, and what you should be focusing on there.

So that'll be on May 7th at 8pm and as always, our webinars for this year will be going up on YouTube so you can go watch them there if you miss one.

But we'll jump in and we have some really cool stuff coming up for you just on the website.

New resources, new things that I think will be helpful to you.

So stay tuned for some of that.

The Pre PA workbook is available on Amazon now.

You have a couple more days to jump on our promotion where you get the free PA school interview course.

If you send us a receipt by May 7th, you just email that to infohepaplatform.com and we will make sure you can get signed up.

All right, let's jump into our Interview, and I hope you enjoy this.

If you have any questions, all the information will be in the description for you.

Actually, starting at the age of seven, I had a outpatient surgery which was actually painful.

And so when I had to have a repeated outpatient surgery, my parents took me to a different facility and it was a very different experience.

And so everything from the personalized interactions to even being given a gown that was pediatrics based, there were a number of details that really stood out to me, but particularly the compassion.

And as a seven year old, really remember that.

And so that's really what started my interest in medicine.

And then when I was a.

Actually this wasn't until I was a senior in college at UC San Diego, I learned about the PA profession and the roots that it had also in the, in the military.

And so I was able to shadow some flight surgeons, local bases, and that was very, very helpful as well.

And it confirmed that that was a really exciting path.

Yeah, I'm very interested and I'm sure we'll get into it and how, how the profession and PA education has changed over time.

You know, I went to Augusta University, which had a program fairly early and had been around for a while.

And you know, even when PA education was a bachelor's degree and then became a master's.

So what kind of, you know, thinking back on your pre PA journey and.

What you had to do to get.

Into PA school, what did that look like and how is it a little bit different now?

Right, you're right.

It was really different.

When I learned about how intensive PA programs were, that it was, it was based on a medical model and it was very condensed, but it was based on that same training that physicians has had.

In fact, it was originally formulated from a fast track training program that was used during the war, World War II, when they had to be able to expedite the training of physicians, I thought, well, that is so much.

I said, it makes sense that somebody would be earning a master's degree.

So I decided at that time, and this was over 25 years ago, to look specifically at master's programs.

Okay.

I was surprised to find that they were all outside of California at that time.

Yeah.

And so that meant applying out of state, and that was exciting.

And so actually I got into Emory, which is in Georgia, also Baylor, which is in Houston, and they were also offering masters.

Then some of the older, some of the older programs in the country.

And I ultimately chose to go to Northeastern University in Boston, which is a 24 month program actually, which is in the program I'm in now as a faculty member is also 24 months.

There's some nice similarities there.

Northeastern was one of the first PA programs in the country that was started that has its own affiliation with the university.

In other words, it's not directly connected to a medical school, but rather collaborates with community partners.

And that's also the same model that our program is using.

So.

Okay.

It's really been kind of a nice parallel.

Been able to adopt a lot of that.

Yes.

But I left.

I left the state because I knew the program would be so intense, and I thought I might as well be earning a master's degree.

Right.

Yeah.

If you're gonna get.

If you're gonna do it, might as well do it.

Yes.

And of course, it sounds a great decision.

Right.

Right now, it's joyful to be able to share with applicants.

You know, it's fantastic.

You don't need to travel out of state to earn your master's degree.

Right.

Because that's where the profession is at with all the programs.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

And so with, you know, seeing how PA education has progressed and changed, thinking ahead as well.

I mean, where do you see the profession heading in the next few years?

But, you know, 25 years from now, where do you think we'll be?

I think we have a lot of exciting times upcoming.

You know, there is a lot of discussion, for instance, within the profession about the doctor programs that are available, and certainly there are much more readily available than before.

That's an exciting discussion, and it's very interesting to me because over the years, I had heard there were many discussions about the title changes as well.

And so to actually be at that stage now is really exciting.

And I really think that that's going to bring us quite a lot of more impact.

Different changes.

Yeah.

Okay.

So thinking about your career as a pa, what areas have you worked in?

What has been your favorite and maybe least favorite?

What have you kind of learned through your experience just being a PA clinically?

Right, right.

So I would say that the.

It's been a great journey, and sort of my journey is really a testimony to the fact that lateral mobility really is possible.

So I started working in a rural health clinic in Texas, and then that was actually connected to an er, so there was ER coverage with it.

I was the only female provider in town, so that was also an interesting role for people to actually be able to have access if they wanted to a female provider.

And then actually I moved to Pennsylvania and was moved directly to an INPATIENT psychiatric PA position.

So that was really different as was shifting to another state because I was able to learn that it's true each state has its own regulations about the PA profession.

So really learned a lot ahead of time before I made the move in terms of what would be necessary.

But it was exciting to be able to do that.

And then from there I actually shifted into a position that was in an inpatient physical rehabilitation center, actually hospital.

So it had an outpatient center with it as well.

So that was a really different kind of work.

Working with a lot of people who had had strokes or had a hip replacement, but just were too weak to be able to go home or be discharged to a SNF and could withstand very intensive therapy, you know, five or six days a week.

So that was really an interesting role.

And then after that, my family and I, we moved to Southern California.

So that that's.

This is the third state that I practiced in.

And then for the last 16ish years or so, I've been affiliated with a urgent care and occupational medicine clinic chain.

And that's been interesting too, to see how even within one company, different satellite clinics can really have different.

Different personalities.

So learning to work with everyone at different clinics, it's also really been interesting.

Interesting.

Yeah.

I'm.

You're a very interesting pa.

I'm a boring pa.

I'm nine years in and I've only ever done the same thing and don't really have any plans on changing, but that's okay too.

I think that's also right.

That's a further test.

If you really know what you want to do and you love what you're already doing in that field, then why not?

Right?

So I really think that that's fantastic as well.

And I'm also happy to share that over these over 25 years as a PA, I have not had to accrue additional required formal education.

So it really is true that the PA program training is enough if one chooses.

At the same time, I'm also thrilled that there are these additional pathways for our students and other students to choose if they want fellowships or residencies.

Some of our students have pursued that path.

So I think that's really the best of both worlds.

Yeah, no, it's true.

And even though I have stayed in dermatology, I have always liked the assurance that if we have to move or if something happens, I feel very confident that the skills I've learned in my position will translate into other areas of medicine and be valuable.

And.

And there are areas that I See, you know, even in the future, like, maybe, maybe I will explore that one day and, you know, have.

Have other interests.

But once you kind of find that home base that is.

Is good and what you enjoy.

I think a lot of PAs seen my class, some of them switched around a little bit at the beginning, but have kind of found what they like and kind of stayed there.

I think another benefit of the growth that we've had in the PA profession over the years has been the additional communities that have been built up.

So.

So right.

With the huge expansion, it's been interesting to see how AAPA has really expanded over the years, but also all the subsequent constituent groups as well.

So somebody knows that dermatology is for them or the ER is for them.

There's also those specialty organizations and there's a lot of close networking opportunities that are there.

So I always encourage students and really sometimes pre pas as well.

If they.

They know that they're really keen on a specialty, they may want to look into those specialty organizations.

Sometimes they have special rates for students or even people who are pre PAs, and that can be really, really powerful.

That's actually where, for instance, the Emergency Medicine PA group is actually where I found some fantastic information before I move from Massachusetts to Texas to take on, you know, this partial ER role.

So I joined a specialty group and learned what was, you know, involved.

And there was some networking that was very helpful.

And then I also joined the state constituent group.

So I'm really a big believer that that's really important given all strides that we've had.

And that's also what enabled me to be successful in shifting gears because the requirements are different state to state.

Yeah.

Wasn't that.

I wasn't caught off guard.

Very involved.

Yeah.

And that's what.

Texas has a great society and so does California.

They're very strong.

Ours in Georgia is very good as well.

I know some.

Some students like.

I can't find it.

I don't know.

What if we have one?

I'm like, you might, but they just may not be very active.

But a lot of states are trying and could probably use help from the students to help with some of those things.

There's lots of opportunity there.

Yes.

How was your switch into education?

Is that something you always kind of saw yourself getting involved with as far as academics?

What was that like to get into that?

It's an interesting question because when I decided to pursue the master's degree, I also realized that maybe if there were other avenues, that that might also be helpful, but that might be another reason to go ahead and take that.

At that time, it was, you know, really.

It was a leap.

And so I kind of thought about that early on.

And that's when I joined.

And so it's really been fantastic to be here.

You know, it's actually, I live and work here in Riverside.

I've been raising my family with my husband here, so I'm really invested in the community.

So it's been really exciting to actually also be part of the PA program here in our community.

Yeah.

And get to see that.

Yes, it's been a really, a really good.

A really good.

Really good.

I will also say it's been exciting to see over time the other ways that PAS can be involved clinically.

For instance, in the occupational medicine company that I work for, over time they've been bought out a few times, but over time they have also employed PAs, I think primarily in Texas, who are basically consultants for the ehr.

Interesting.

Yes.

It's kind of an informatics PA position, which is not something necessarily that would first come to mind when we think about PAs, but they have a vital role not only in navigating the ehr, but understanding what kind of crucial documentation is needed.

So it's really, really been interesting to me that some companies are also thinking outside the box.

Right.

In terms of how TAS can be utilized.

And we see more leadership positions, administrative positions in pharmaceutical companies.

So that's all very, very exciting.

I'm pursuing my doctorate currently, and so, yes, it's an exciting time.

Seems like there's lots of doors opening for PAs.

And I think just from what I see with applicants and students and fellow PAs in generally, PAs tend to be kind of like go getters and, you know, some of the people who are willing to try some new stuff and take things on.

And so I've.

I've seen pas also moving into leadership in pharmaceutical companies and like, medical science liaison roles where previously we had only really ever see pharmacists doing that.

And, and there are some, like you said, like, really cool leadership research opportunities coming up.

It seems like for PAs, telehealth is becoming much more of a, of a big deal.

So it's.

I think for these upcoming PAs, there's gonna be so much opportunity and cool things that they may get to get involved with and, and try out.

Right.

Exciting, exciting times.

And it doesn't mean that when you apply to PA school or even when you graduate that you necessarily have to have.

Right.

A path.

Yeah, that's part of the beauty of it.

Right.

As these additional positions have been evolving over time and, and because the lateral mobility is already there anyways.

Yeah.

Just getting back on board.

Well, so in your experience, both as a clinical PA and then in academics, what are some things that make a student successful in PA school?

What do you see students kind of struggling with or maybe coming in and not being quite prepared enough for when it comes to actual PA school?

Honestly, I think it's hard for anyone to be completely prepared for PA school and we do ask them later.

Right.

So no matter how academically gifted a person is, there's still going to be an academic challenge, truthfully.

And part of that is just because of the nature, the condensed nature of program, no matter where someone goes.

Right.

No matter the length of the program.

So I think that just being flexible, as you know, I know that you've emphasized before, is truly part of the key.

In other words, having a mindset early on that I'm going to be needing to learn new skills.

So what worked for me as an undergraduate or even as a non traditional student, if taking night classes or something similar, you can really almost count on the fact that you're going to have to shift gears and re engineer yourself in terms of study skills.

But, but the good news is that you're not alone.

And so that's where the community, your cohort that you're with, becomes really vital because they are the ones who are undergoing that same journey with you.

Yeah, I agree.

It's.

It's hard to explain to someone ahead of time exactly what they're getting into, but they, they tend to learn fairly quickly that the, there's high expectations and it's just different than anything else.

It's different than a full time job, it's different than undergrad.

It's just a lot.

When you're looking at an applicant for a PA school, like a pre PA student who's applying, what makes someone stand out or makes you feel more confident that they have what it takes to be a successful PA student and a great pa.

Right.

I mean, honestly, it's many components and so even if we're reviewing the applications initially, we know when we're looking at the applications that that's not really the whole picture.

We know that we're going to have to have an interview to be able to clarify some of the personality characteristics that will be vital.

One of those that comes to mind that was actually best summarized by one of our current Cohort classmates is one of respect.

Realizing that.

So when instructors are providing information or program is sharing information, it's really coming from a point of experience.

Even though maybe in the moment some of the material or some of the methods may not be initially apparent, it's because it's being shared from a perspective.

We're all PAs and we've all been in your shoes.

And so sometimes it takes that understanding or realization that maybe right now it's not completely apparent how this could be beneficial to me.

But just taking that bit of trust and knowing we've been down your path, we're right there with you.

Our goal is your goal for you to be a pa that certainly is really, really a vital component.

So isn't that so hard to tell from someone's application?

And even if interviews are such a short snapshot of who someone is that it's, it's so tough.

When I've been helping with my programs interviews, it almost comes down to like very small things.

A very, you know, small statement or something can be that one little red flag that makes me go, oh, I just don't know if you're ready compared to somebody else.

Because everybody, I feel like at this point these students like work so hard and they're so impressive.

Like, I don't think I would have gotten in when I applied.

Looking back, I would have had to do a lot more.

Are there any major red flags that you see either on applications or in interviews or personal statements that just make you kind of go, oh, probably not the best fit for us?

Well, I mean there can be.

Honestly, we have, and I think this is case for all programs.

Such a large number applying that honestly, by the time that we look at the qualified pool, that's less likely to be an issue.

I do think it's important for applicants when they're applying to think carefully about all the categories.

We know the application is long, right?

We read the applications too.

I will share one caveat that we notice each year is those who are able to differentiate the healthcare experience clearly from the personal care experience, which is really the more hands on medical based experience that we're looking for, that is very helpful.

So as an example, somebody who's been a medical assistant in the front office, that's helpful for understanding the flow and certainly all of the administrative parts of medicine.

And so that is great experience.

That would be counted under healthcare experience.

Then when programs have a certain minimum number of hours and they may not, some don't.

For personal care experience, which is really the medical Hours.

A better example of that would be back medical office experience.

Experience.

Right.

So that's a medical assistant who is taking the patient into the room, working with them in the patient room with vitals.

Maybe they're involved with taking part of their history.

Perhaps they're called back in to help with a procedure.

They're also helping potentially when a patient is getting discharged, providing them additional instructions.

So that is a difference between where someone would listen experience.

It's still experience.

Right.

But it helps us if that can be clearly delineated between the healthcare experience and the medically oriented hands on experience with the patient.

We do look at both that.

It's important to know that when looking at the specific parameters a program has is really vital.

So the deeper an applicant can dig into what's important for a program, the better.

Right.

It means that that applicant is able to customize their approach and we can recognize when somebody has taken the time to customize their approach in their application.

And that's really how we think about the fit.

Right.

Well now that leads me to my next question is how can students feel like they are making a good list of programs?

I feel like when you look at program websites, things start to run together and it's been interesting talking to students because I feel like sometimes they don't necessarily understand parts of the program website.

Things like curriculum they'll look at and just, you know, I, from an accreditation standpoint, there's a standard of curriculum that has to be taught.

But I've had students who email me and say I want to go to this program because they, they teach ophthalmology but this other program doesn't.

I'm like, hold on.

No, no, no, they definitely will teach you ophthalmology.

It just may not be listed out in the same manner.

You know, that's, that's a core, core part of it.

Like you're going to get that.

So what, how can students, when they're trying to figure out if it's a good fit, what questions can they should they be asking or what kind of stuff stuff would they be looking for?

Maybe the mission statement and things to feel like it's a good fit if they can't go visit or go to an info session.

Yes, yes.

So great, great question.

So to your first point that you're doing an excellent job clarifying this for pre applicants, which is that when you look at the curriculum, the curriculum can be very different.

And that's because for our accredited programs here in the US that our accrediting agency arcpa requires certain standards for all the programs.

How they're interpreted in some ways is up to the program.

But ARCP is very clear and says that, you know, because we specifically list, for example, that you must cover anatomy and physiology, genetics.

You don't necessarily have to have a specific class for each of these specific requirements.

So some of those will be folded into a class.

And so I think that's important.

You won't know exactly from the title itself.

Right.

What's being covered or what's in the being covered.

So I think that's important to keep in mind that looking more at the regulation of programs in general and all of our requirements is more helpful.

Yes.

So that's important to be reassured about.

And they did that so that there is that flexibility of interpretation.

It also means that programs, because of that have a wider variety of approaches.

Honestly, that's better for the students to be able to choose from.

Right.

And so, for example, in our program, that means we have the latitude to arrange for ultrasound teaching.

As an example, we've partnered with one of our local medical schools to do that previously.

And we also partner with our College of nursing here at California Baptist University to facilitate some learning activities.

And also we cut simulations.

So that is.

But we have that flexibility because of the way the accreditation is set up.

Yeah, sure.

That answers.

No, it does that.

That does help.

And is there anything.

And that's what I was going to ask next, too, is, is there anything specific about your program that you feel is unique or something that students may not know or realize is something beneficial?

I think ultrasound training has become such a.

A big thing over the past few years, and that's something that is very beneficial to the students.

We had like, one day of ultrasound, and now I feel like there's a lot more.

It's being incorporated a lot more into didactic year, and it sounds like you'll have a really good, like, interprofessionalism approach at your program.

So.

Yeah.

Is there anything that you feel like students would want to know or that your students get really excited about that somebody looking to apply may not realize just looking at the website.

So we really.

We find that students will often report that the professors truly care about the students.

And so.

But of course, that's always for the applicant to interpret to what degree for themselves.

We aim to include either students or alumni in our interview day so that applicants have a chance to chat completely as they wish and no questions, off limits, to find out what is it really like to be a student in our program.

We think that's really beneficial.

We know you can have lots of printed material to have access to, but someone who's in the program or spending the program can probably give you the best picture.

And that would be for any program, really.

Right.

So that would be a good way to also help decide what's important for you as an applicant.

Is it really crucial that it be somewhere geographically close by?

I think being geographically flexible is actually pretty.

Can open up a lot of doors, especially since the average applicant applies to.

I think it's seven or eight programs typically.

So thinking about how flexible could you be geographically is important.

As one idea.

We have lots of people who want to apply in California.

Popular state.

Yeah, it's true.

But there.

And.

But California has many different aspects to it.

And so I think that, again, diving into research into what's really drawing you to a specific locale is really, really important.

So we're in Riverside.

We happen to be the only physician assistant program in the county of Riverside.

And our region that's defined as Riverside and San Bernardino is a very medically underserved area.

And so we have been happy to know that actually in the current two cohorts that we have, we have four students, current students, who are NHSC winners nationally.

Wow.

Scholar Corps winners.

Yes.

Yes.

Either having applied before they came to the program or when they came to the program, they found out about that fellow students were applying and then they applied.

Yeah.

Embarking on a loan repayment program.

But that's really.

It's congruent, you know, with the fact that we are already in a medically underserved area if they're willing to continue to serve after they graduate in a medically underserved area.

So we're very excited about that.

It shows, you know, alignment with the students that are coming into the program with being committed to serve in the area as well.

We also are a yellow ribbon university, which means that we have some special benefits for veterans.

And again, I think that that's very congruent with the PA profession.

Yes, the first physician assistants were military corpsmen, and really, without them, we would not have the profession.

So I think that that's also something that we're proud of as well.

And we have won the last four of the six California Academy of Physician Assistant Medical Challenge Bowls, too.

That's impressive, too.

So.

Yes, that's really taken over.

Fantastic for us as well.

So.

No, that's.

That's great.

And that's I think those are the things that, you know, students may not know about or may need to research more.

And we'll add some resources too, because there are a lot of programs that say they have a focus or would like to, you know, emphasize underserved areas or veterans.

And I think it's, it's cool to actually talk to someone who's saying like, yes, we actually say that and we do it to have those NHSC scholars and be in an area where you can really serve your community.

Right, right.

So that's very, it's very exciting for us.

You know, there really is a need, I mean, there's a need for more PAs, no question, anywhere but in our geographic area, that's particularly true.

And so it also means that we know that the students, when they're going on their clerkships, they're also undergoing their clerkships in areas that are truly in need.

And so it's really providing a.

It's providing a vital resource early on.

Yeah.

And that's, that is a great experience for the students as well.

So.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your insights.

I know this will be extremely helpful to all of our pre PA students and even PA students who are kind of thinking about what they may want to do next or any interest in academics to kind of think about where their path may take them.

So thank you so much for taking the time to share with us.

You're welcome.

And, and I also, I wanted to express my gratitude that you are continuing what you're doing because it's very, very important, you know, for people who are applying to PA school to really have a definitive understanding that this is, that this is the best path for them.

We always say, you know, take the time that you need to explore.

If you've been a PT aide, consider looking at PTs.

Right.

If you've been ophthalmology technician, consider looking at ophthalmology.

And then if you decide that that's not for you, it gives you more information actually about the path that you do choose.

And ultimately, because we are vital members of a team, there's another benefit because you've also learned all the more about additional roles.

Right.

If you've been a pharmacy tech, then you're working with pharmacists and you really understand the role of a pharmacist.

And whether or not you become a pharmacist or pa, then you still understand more about the team concepts.

And in the end, that's a win, win for everyone.

Yeah, I think that's one of the huge benefits of our profession.

And the education is just all those different backgrounds and experiences coming together to help all of us be a little bit more well rounded.

Yes.

Yes.

And thank you also, Savannah, for the encouragement that you've provided to re applicants as well.

That's really important.

People should really take that to heart and know that that's also looked at as well.

They have a time to expand their experiences, perhaps, or broaden them and to not lose faith.